Homes, Hope, And A Heavyweight’s Heart

A bed behind a safe door shouldn’t feel extraordinary, yet for many families it is. We sit down with former MMA fighter and Fight for the Forgotten founder Justin Wren to unpack how land, water, and shelter form a chain that pulls people from survival to stability. Justin shares the turn from fighting people to fighting for people, and the practical steps his team uses to help communities secure land rights, drill wells, build homes, and launch livelihoods. His stories of sweat equity, trust, and dignity reveal a blueprint for real change that resonates far beyond the rainforest.

We connect those lessons to the challenges facing U.S. homebuyers: constrained inventory, rising costs, and a lending culture that can feel distant. Our conversation explores how credit unions can honor risk while rebuilding the human connection, using coaching, transparent pathways, and “hand up” models that reward effort and readiness. We talk candidly about perception, why community lenders get labeled as overly strict, and how consistent action and clear stories shift that narrative over time.

From a grandmother opening the door to her first bed to a vocational hub training carpenters and welders, Justin shows what happens when purpose meets persistence. The message for lenders, members, and neighbors is the same: action beats talk. Join us for a grounded, hopeful look at homeownership, community impact, and the everyday choices that open doors, literally and figuratively. If this conversation moves you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Sponsored by Xactus

Transcript

30 Second Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Acuma, its board of directors, its management staff, or its members. The podcast discussion presented is conversational in nature and for general information only.

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SPEAKER_03 0:27

This is Acima's On Point Podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with a former MMA fighter. A man for over a decade has dedicated his life to improving the quality of life and homeownership for almost 1,800 people. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, let's get ready to rumble. Before we get to our episode, just a quick word from our sponsor.

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SPEAKER_00 0:53

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SPEAKER_03 2:27

Hello, welcome to Across Point Podcast, a series focused on sharing the stories of people who are making a positive impact in the credit union mortgage industry. I'm your host, Peter Benjamin. Today I am joined by Justin Wren, founder and CEO of Fight for the Forgotten. Justin, longtime no C. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Man, I'm doing really great. I just loved being with y'all and just all your people. Um this has been really great. It's a good season of life, you know, with New Year's recently happening. My wife looked at me and said that uh she's in the best place she's ever been in life. And I go, I'm in the best place I've ever been in life. And then it's like that's great energy to take into 2026. And so y'all contributed to that, uh benefiting my life by being able to come share my keynote. And uh, it was one of the most inspiring groups of people I've been around. And I think it's because y'all have a deep sense of understanding that what you do matters and it makes a difference, and you're helping people, and uh, and so we we we vibed a lot uh in that. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Okay, well, I I I appreciate you saying that. You know, the the kind words are truly do mean a lot. Now, you know, we we you know asked you know for you to come on this podcast because you know, I I really want to pick your brain on something that I think is near and dear to your heart, and that that's you know, the quality of life, that it's it's the importance of homeownership. You know, you you you've been to our conference and and you saw you know it was just stacked with with people that were passionate, credit union leaders that were passionate about you know home ownership, mortgage lending, their communities, you know, and and I think that it really resonated and really has this amazing symmetry to your keynote. So I want to have that conversation with you today about you know just home ownership and what we can do to improve and support our communities. Now, but before we do that, before we get to our main conversation, you know, I always pause, I always take a sidestep, and I bring the other Justin into the conversation to kind of give us an update on how to go off. Now, Hawk, what is going on? And and please tell us what is the latest and greatest happening over at Acima? Uh, Peter, we are uh we're underway. We're we're we're already rocking and rolling. You already know. We honestly I feel like so we we had we took the holidays off, right? We had that that last week off and it was needed. I honestly feel like we we came back, and it wasn't you know a slow let's let's start easing ourselves back into things. It's been full on sprint ever since we came back.

SPEAKER_05 5:30

Yeah, I know. You can hear the excitement in my voice.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

No, I'm already exhausted. It's it's exhausted.

SPEAKER_05 5:37

It's been a whirlwind for sure, but uh I mean, we love what we do, so that's that there's some solace in that. No facts, facts. All right, so what's what what's all right, so what's happening? Well, uh registration has officially opened for our three viewpoint regional summit. So unlike years past, um, instead of us holding just one uh regional summit, we're gonna have three of them this year. So we're gonna be in Dallas, Texas, March 24, 25, uh St. Louis, Missouri from April 14 and 15, and Baltimore, Maryland from April 28 to 29. Um, but what we are doing is we're gonna keep the same flow like we did last year, we're gonna keep that experience going. Uh, so we're gonna bring the experiential portion to these events again this year. So uh I'm gonna try to do this the best that I can. But uh if you're looking for a good old-fashioned honky talk then uh and a bull riding show, then come see us. Or maybe uh a brewery experience is more up your alley. Um, and if that's not good enough, then we have another brewery experience for you as well. Uh so yeah, um we have a lot planned. Uh, don't worry though. Uh, if you're looking for our focal point workshops, those are just on the horizon as well. So registration is going to open for those early February uh this year. Our workshop will be held in San Diego, California from May 12th and 13th. And beyond our in-person events, we have our webinars that are happening monthly and our quarterly meetings are already rolling for the year. Up next, we have our YPN and our volume-based uh meetings happening in February. Uh, so be sure to check out the Acumen website for all the latest happenings. Aside from all of these virtual and in-person events, we have our favorite and longtime favorite on-point podcast happening uh monthly as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Awesome. A lot of stuff happening. All right, so excited for this year. Thank you very much, as always, Hawk, for the update. All right, so turning back to the special guest, Justin. Um Justin. Wren, that is. Um, all right, so I I mentioned this prior to the call. And before we really get into our conversation, I I I we I really want to ask you two simple questions. I think that's important. I like setting the stage for the conversation and getting people, letting people get to know you. And so, as I mentioned, you know, the Dollar Play podcast, it's a people piece, you know, we want to spotlight the amazing people in the crediting industry that that really focus on the relationship, their communities, and really helping others. And and so I always start it, start our conversation with the same question, and I always end it with the same question. And so that first question, the first question I'm always gonna ask is you know, who is Justin Wren? And you know, for those for those unfortunate souls who did not make it to our annual conference this past year that didn't get a chance to hear your story, do me a favor. Quickly share that story with them real quick, and and then when you're done, we'll jump into our conversation.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah, I would say that I'm just a dude that went from fighting against people to fighting for people. And I want to put love and compassion in action in meaningful ways to the people that are around me. But I had an adventure that took me to uh the Congo and then Uganda, and I lived there boots on the ground more than three years, uh drilling water wells, um, uh helping build uh improved homes and and and get land rights. And but growing up was was was tough. I grew up getting very heavily bullied, and that's why I found the sport of mixed martial arts and became a UFC fighter. I was a I guess I'll give some highlights and lowlights really fast. Some highlights was I was a 10-time state champion, a five-time All-American, a two-time national champion. I was the youngest professional heavyweight at uh 19 years old. Uh, I was on the Ultimate Fighter TV show at 21 years old. Um, and then I've written a book with Simon and Schuster. I've been on uh some bigger shows and podcasts and things like that. Um, and I'm the founder of a nonprofit, CEO of that, and uh I wouldn't change a thing. Although the lowlights are that I went through depression, addiction, went to uh treatment not just once, but twice uh for substance use disorder, especially oxycottin. Uh, had a surgery uh when I broke my arm and that almost took my life. Uh, I attempted to take my life, uh, not just once, but twice. And I had to go to at those treatment centers, really learn the deep work on myself. There's there's no outrunning it, there's no escaping it unless you do uh the deep work and have that reality check and also the help and support of uh professionals, of uh loved ones. Uh, but at the end of the day, um, no one else can can help you when it comes to that addiction part if you don't want to help yourself. And so I really had to learn a lot uh about myself and grow through it and heal from it. Uh, and and the healing is a continued process, but I think uh a real key and unlock for me that I think is available to us all is just discovering that purpose through service. And so my keynote, yeah, it starts with overcoming adversity and then that discovering purpose through service, and then how we all make an impact in the world around us. For me, that discovering purpose through service was really a key uh or an unlock in my life because uh yes, it helped me get outside myself, but I think everyone at the end of the day wants to know that our life matters and that we're making a contribution um to be around us, right? And so that for me has been the greatest gift, is as I give to others, it gives to me like a sense of purpose and passion and fulfillment. And um, the more that I uh don't just think about contributing to my own life, but to others, uh, the whole world around me seems a little bit better, a little bit brighter. Uh, it's just it's been something that I got a second family given to me, adopted into a tribe of hunter-gatherers that uh are some of the most amazing, wonderful, loving, kind people who have taught me so much. But through the work of Fife of God, we've seen uh more than 1,800 people transition out of a life of actual modern-day slavery and into a life of freedom. We have um uh helped over 80,000 people get access to water. Uh, when we talk about home ownership, we're helping 60 new families, actually, more than 60, uh, get access to a home for the first time in their lives because they were evicted from the rainforest. They were just living uh really in in desperate circumstances. But now we have an engineering team and architects and builders uh that are coming alongside them to where they have their hands on the bricks, hands on the tools, and at their what what what husband doesn't want to help uh husband mother, father doesn't want to help build their own home, right? And and make it something nice and safe and warm inside for their children. Um, and so it's pretty exciting. Last month we opened a we opened a hospital and uh the grand opening of that with the community center and the vocational training hub. We're putting 60 new people to work there, learning carpentry, welding, uh beekeeping, tailoring, and hairdressing. And so it's just been something far beyond. I thought we'd just start with water, but now it's a whole community development model uh where we start with land, then we get to clean water, then we start food or farming practices, then we do improved structures or build homes. Uh, then from there we get into healthcare, education, and now sustainable livelihoods. It's just putting one step in uh one foot in front of the other, and then seeing the things that can happen are pretty wild if you're just intentional about it. Now it's taken more than a decade. 2011 was my first trip there. Um, spent more than three years living there, go back multiple times a year, but having to lead a team virtually uh or internationally, and it's just grown and it's been a beautiful thing to be part of.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

No, uh no, it's such an amazing story. And you know, I I one thing I loved about your keynote is how vulnerable you were and talking about you know addiction and suicide, but but also more importantly, not not so much more importantly, that's probably the wrong thing to say, but you know, not all too often people really talk about you know their lives and being bullied, and and really that can being bullied can can shape you in so many different directions, right? Um it was just such an amazing, powerful um key note. Now, you know, one of the things I I really want to focus on is you know uh the homeownership. Yeah, you talked about education, yes, you talked about you know improving their quality of life, and you're now you're you're branching out from yes, not just water to you know beekeeping, but it's the homeownership thing that is so important. You know, and and and here's why. Like you you've helped uh almost 1,800 people, and I'm just gonna say 1800 people, right? You know, I've been in the mortgage industry you know 24, 25 years. If if I was to originate or give someone a loan, a mortgage loan, if I was to do five people a month, which by the way, if I did five loans a month, I'd be considered above average. If I did five loans a month, knowing that I've been in the industry, we'll say 25 years, I would still have a year to go before I even came close to matching you on that 1800 families put into homes or helped or something like that. So if you think about it, 26 years, you could be in the mortgage industry and not have the impact that you have made on so many families that are in such need for this type of life-altering change. And and so I I I'm gonna bring it back to our conversation and bring it back to the the topic at hand. Again, you know, when you look at the United States, right, you know, we have I don't want to say we have a housing shortage, but you know, it it's inventory is just not where it really should be or or could be. Um you know, it you know, the the cost to afford a home is becoming more and more expensive across the board, right? And it's fewer and fewer people are making that conscious decision to own a home because of those things of inventory, uh, cost, um access, even, right? And and so I I say all that because you know home ownership is such a fundamental important thing to survival, right? If you think about you know, when you if you were lost in the woods and or you were you know on a deserted island, you know, one of the first things you do not say is you look for shelter and water, right? Those are the first two things that you do when you're stranded or you're going out to survive. So homeownership and shelter is such an important and fundamental thing to who we are as human beings. It goes back to all our time as nomads, but yet we struggle with it as a country, as a society, to get people in homes, right? For people to just have that opportunity to own a home or you know, be part of that experience, right? You can even factor in homelessness, right? So here's the question. So from your point, in your experience, you know, you know, helping all those families and if you were to look at you know the United States and and our country and and the various communities that that you live in, that you've been to, what can we do as a society or as really credit unions to really help support home ownership greater than we already are?

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Well, be honest, yeah, I'm no expert on it, but I have some experience with helping people get um into their homes, which in our context is very humble uh homes. Um, but some are they consider kind of like mansions in comparison to what they've known, right? I would say that what I've learned is don't count people out. Um, meaning, I mean, I know we have to have data and we have to have trust, and there's credit and and all things, but sometimes we look beyond the data and we look at the human being, um, people will surprise you. Uh sometimes in the negative way for sure. And we got to minimize that risk in ways that we can. But I will tell you that I've been way more surprised by people's eagerness to build a better life for themselves and their families than uh than I've been disappointed. I've been I've been surprised and seeing people progress in ways I didn't know was necessarily possible due to their circumstances. Whenever I talk about at least uh the context of Africa and the pygmy people nomads that we're hunter-gatherers. Um, given the opportunity, so we we try to say we're we don't do a hand out, we do a hand up. Like we will match your energy, seeing you building a better future for yourself. We'll we'll connect you with the resources. Um it's almost like lending, we'll lend you a hand uh when we see you helping yourself in ways, and we have these very honest, transparent conversations with them. And so, if they're gonna be part of building their own house, we'll see if we provide a builder that's an expert. And and if we provide the tools, like what can you do first? Can you clear the land? Can you go get the sand? We will help you clean the sand, but can you go get the sand that we're gonna need for the concrete and um and the bags of cement that we're gonna mix with? And whenever they start putting in that effort and that action and that sweat equity, then we come in and the support that that give, not give and take, but give and give. Whenever we do this give and give thing, it just we keep matching that energy and they raise the bar on us because they're ready to have these things that they've never had before. And so I I don't know that I'm necessarily answering your question about this context in our culture and this country, but I would say on a human level, man, people being given opportunities that they might not have if they truly understand that opportunity first, right? I know that you know, if you give a kid a car at 16, they might not take as good care of it as if they really worked and and and and put the down payment uh down or pay for their insurance, put the gas in the car or the other things, but it's the same kind of principle, right? Like, hey, what what is your buy-in? What is your contribution for us contributing this? Um, this help and support in ways that they don't have access to. And so I would go also back before the homeownership in Africa. There's a saying, and it's it's I hear all the time in Uganda, I also hear in Congo, and it's they say if you don't own land, you own nothing. And so that's the African kind of proverb is if you don't own land, you own nothing. And so for them, we couldn't drill a water well until they owned the land. Uh, because if we just drilled a well and the land was up for grabs or it belonged to somebody else, then it wasn't going to benefit the the the greater community. So we've helped them get back over 3,000 acres of land, but on that land, there's over 108 water wells, and they're different plots and they're different places. And um, but on the land also, once you have land and water, then we can get to the shelter, right? And then also on the land, we can start the farms. But it's been it's been shocking to see people really take, not shocking, it's been it's been gratifying to see people understand it's it's innate, it's human nature. I I yes, there's people that are looking for handouts, but almost always that's whenever they don't have another, at least the people I know, that's whenever they don't have another option. They'll take the handout, but they want the hand up. And so I maybe to simplify it, if they could, if we can look at people on the human level, it's really believe that they're sometimes we can give them our belief and and just through conversations. And whenever their belief goes up a couple notches, then that's whenever they start to build this kind of positive momentum starting to spin in their life, and they see a little progress, all of a sudden they'll take it and run with it.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

No, I you know, I I love a lot of the things you said, but you know, two things that really jumped out. The the the first, you know, that that African you know proverb that that you mentioned, that if you don't own land, you don't own nothing, right? Like that it reminds me of a very similar quote that Snoop Dogg once said. Snoop Dogg actually I'm gonna quote him. Snoop Dogg said, real estate's the most important thing in the world. Wow. If you don't own land, you don't own nothing. Um and who doesn't love Snoop Dogg? Yeah, but anyways, um so uh I couldn't agree more. But I think one of the things that that I I really smiled about when you were when you were just answering my question, you know, that that human factor, right? You know, if you think about it, you know, our industry, the mortgage industry, you know, lost sight of the human factor a long time ago, you know, for good and bad reasons, right? Right. Bad reasons greed, right? Good reasons are you know we had to stabilize our economy, right? So we had to tighten up underwriting guidelines, right? Not necessarily a good reason, but it it's a reason all the same as to why we lost sight of that human factor. And you know, because of those underwriting guidelines are so tight, we forget, hey, you know, this person, you know, by helping this person, we're putting them into a better place, right? Um, you know, by helping this single mother of five get into this house, we're we're providing you know her family with shelter, you know, getting them out of a terrible situation and put them into a better one. Like we're forgetting those stories, we're forgetting that impact because you know, it's the nature of the beast, the nature of of the things that have happened in our history, you know, the great financial crisis or the great recession, whatever you want to call it, you know, we still haven't really recovered from that. We we haven't really regained that that that insight into people helping people, right? And and that's interesting because I'm going down this rabbit hole all of a sudden. People helping people is literally the credit union creed, right? Every credit union, you know, it it's almost like when when you go to a credit union event, it's almost like you have it's it's like you know, the Illuminati chanting people helping people. It's kind of like that when you come to a credit union event. Um but you know, for me uh what I find interesting about you know the idea of humanizing and the sweat equity, you know, and ensuring that we are understanding who this person is, what they're willing to put into this transaction because their life depends on it, right? In many ways. Not to be so serious, but their life depends on it. You know, one of the rumors that that credit unions often have to overcome, and it's not a rumor, and it's a perception, it's a negative perception that credit unions have to overcome, is that credit unions are too strict in their guidelines, right? Like the credit unions are just conservative, right? Well, that right there speaks to everything you just said, right? If we're too conservative, we're too strict, you know, and we have that perception. We're not gonna get that person, and they hear that they if you have a person and then they hear that rumor, they hear that per they they have that perception, they're not gonna come to us, right? They're not gonna come to a credit union. The credit unions are community-based lenders. I I personally believe the the last great community-based lender. So if someone has that negative perception of a credit union that, oh, they're too straight, they're not gonna help me, right? Um we're not fulfilling our mission, right? We're not succeeding and supporting our community, so and we're not just simply people helping people. So I I I I love everything you just said because I think that right there is what credit unions are.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Well, I think I think on it, just if it's okay to chime in. Um this is you. I I think the people helping people, but I think what also allows that human connection is first the the person at the credit union, like, yes, this is your job, but allow yourself to be seen as a person too, right? Not just as the lender, not just as the uh am I gonna give you this or not? Um, and because you can help, I think, I think one of the things that's been a great strength of ours is fight for the forgotten, is really being able to bring down the walls by building this trust, by having these conversations, by them being able to see us as not that different. Right when I walk into a village, a community in very rural, very remote places in the rainforest that there are no roads, like I'm very different. Like my first nickname was the vanilla gorilla, the albino rhino. One place had never ever seen uh someone with white skin before. They had heard basically ruminant rumors or legends as like uh uh as light-skinned people, but they they they ran, they hid behind trees. It would they sent someone out to touch my arm because they didn't know if I was like a ghost or half man, half lion is what they said at first. And so very, very different, right? And we had to find a way to connect to build trust, and that was like allowing like just showing that hey, I'm not that different. We're we have more in common than we do differences, and having these conversations, having laughs, breaking bread, having meals together, them showing me how to build the homes just like they traditionally lived in, which was literally twigs that you could bend into a dome and and putting leaves on it and weaving these leaves. So, me breaking down these barriers or walls, and them too, like meeting in the middle, being able to see, like, ah, we're just people. We're at the end of the day, we're just people, and so people helping people, but allow yourself to be seen as that person too, that is there to help, right? And so, and you might not be able to help that person right in front of you, and you might know it, but don't miss out on that human connection before, during, and afterwards. Um, because whenever that person is in the place and in the position, uh, you want them to be able to come back to you first, you know. Hey, we're not able to help this time, but keep us in mind and let me know how I can help in other ways. And I'm just the dude that's trying to help people, like people helping people. That's who we want you to see us as. And um, and whenever it might be a few years down the road, but whenever you can help them, you want that person coming back to you. So you when they're in that position, you're in that position. It is sometimes it's the timing thing, right? Not every community we go into, we can help in all the ways, but we can help them in some way, and so we try not to miss out on those opportunities to do the little bit of good that we can.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

No, that's awesome. Hawk, you leaned in.

SPEAKER_05 31:38

Oh, I mean, I just I I I love this conversation. Uh, I mean, like, I think to your point, Justin, one of the things that makes that credit union movement, that credit union mindset so special is that these are people who kind of have that that saying, Yeah, I I'm a person too, right? I mean, uh, and that's a really good point to bring into the conversation because um I think from the day I stepped into a credit union, uh that I don't think you can turn without someone, you know, reminding you of what we did, you know, why we exist, why credit unions exist, why the movement exists. Um and just you know, hearing that that message for the credit union um transcends globally. Like that that's just an amazing thing.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

No, it it is, you know, and you know, we keep talking about people helping people, and and maybe maybe that is maybe we can solve this housing issue with that that simple idea of people helping people, right? But yeah, I'm a firm believer in and you know think of me what you will, but I'm a firm believer that perception is nine-tenths of the law, right? And so until we change that perception, we're never going to move this needle forward, right? And so as as an industry, as as credit unions, yeah, we we we we can beat this people helping people drum um all all we want, right? But until it actually rings true, we are not fulfilling our fiduciary responsibility to support the communities we serve. Or just not. Yeah, we may we may do mortgages, but not enough. I mean what just uh Hawk is that there's like 3,500 credions that that are are in existence in the United States, and only about 1,500 of them originate mortgages, which means 2,000 of them are not fulfilling that fiduciary responsibility that was really in the one of the main reasons why credit unions were established in 1935, right? Support community, support homeownership at a fair price, fair price, um realistic terms, etc. So it's interesting in uh how we're stuck with this perception, right? Because we hear it, we Justin Hawk, you you've come with me to other industry events that are not just solely credit unions. And you correct me if I'm wrong, you've heard it, but like oftentimes credit unions are really almost laughed upon, right? They're like forgotten child. I was at a meeting, I was at a conference, and I was having a meeting with somebody, and because they they knew I was with the credit union, they were literally talking down to me like they were smarter and more important and knew mortgages more than I do. And you know, I I just sat there and and took it and just thought to myself, you know, this that was just a wasted meeting. Like, how you know let me look one, I was like, let me show you why credions are so important. Um but two, um, I think that's that's the again, it goes back to obsession, creditions don't know what they're doing. So, you know, I so Justin Wren, you know, as we think about you know perception and and it kind of being that that nine tenths of the law idea, you know, if if if if the if the easiest, if the moral of the story is in order for credit unions, in order for us to really improve home ownership, we have to go back to the fundamental idea of people helping people, and it has to be adopted by everyone across the board, how do we overcome that perception, in your opinion?

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SPEAKER_02 35:54

Well, I think uh so yeah, I'll go back to that thing I said it's sounds ooey, gooey mushy, gushy, but at the end of the day, I just want to be a dude that puts love and compassion in action. And so something I have to be aware of is uh as a keynote speaker, is am I just talking about it or is the action piece in there? And not just in there, but like the most and actually doing it. And so I I mean, not saying y'all aren't actually doing it because you are, but uh, I better be taking action a lot more than I'm talking about it. And so for me at least, um, the perception comes by doing things like this last trip. There were district health officials, district officials uh of the local government, the district means state there uh in Uganda, and it's even got all the way up to let's say at least the president's cabinet uh and family members, and it's because things are being done that uh like I this is my first time since 2011 that I ever got a presidential escort to the airport, right? And just got let right in. And it's not because of um any status part, like the most of the people didn't even know I was a former fighter and stuff like that. What they knew is we're doing stuff that other big organizations have made promises and never kept, and we're actually doing it, and we're doing it for their most vulnerable population. Uh, the people that they've made, uh even the government admitted that we've made promises of doing this and we couldn't do it, and we didn't know how, and y'all just stuck with it, and and you keep coming and you're consistent, and this commitment like where'd this commitment come from? And so, like whenever I met someone in the family of the president there, um, they're like, How come you've never come and met the president? And I'm like, Well, I mean, that could be helpful, but honestly, like, we're here to serve the people, and so I'm with the people, and it's not not not like tooting my own horn or pat myself on the back. They're like, Well, we could have stepped in and intervened much sooner or help been helpful in whatever way we could. And I was like, Well, we wanted to show you we were the real deal that we're not just coming here to take pictures and go raise money. Like, in fact, we probably raise a whole lot less money than we probably could because we're just so focused on the projects, the programming, which ultimately at the end of the day is the people. And so, um, the last few trips, like all of a sudden, all the light bulbs are coming on and attention's coming onto what we're doing, and they're asking us, can you go here? Can you go there? And so, there's five new communities for us to enter with the whole community development uh initiative or program. The reason I bring that up is I just think that if if you're consistent and you really take the action and you're really helping people, like word gets out on that, and so it's um y'all are doing it, but I think the more you can humanize it and get these stories and be able to, and it's not about the stories, but share the success stories and then really first and foremost, do your mission and and not just talk about it, be about it. And I know I know uh from meeting the people at uh Acuma, um Acuma, sorry, that that they are Acuma. Uh it it um it was a really, really special, special, special group of people. And I would also go to your comment about that guy that was um uh maybe even speaking down to you. The thing that I've learned from that is um man, the the lesson I learned from all the bullying I got growing up. And uh and even now there's there's times people are like, oh, you had this and you left that, and now you don't don't have as much. And I uh that I've been talked down to even by family members. Family members say, Oh, now you're not the fighter, you're just this uh uh more poor humanitarian guy. Like, what's that got you talking about? Thing. I'm like, what? Like uh it what it's done is shown me how to treat people and it's given me a more compassionate heart, and it's made me have this curiosity of uh how can I help in the most meaningful, deepest way possible that impacts people who I don't care if I get acknowledgement from the people that don't get it. Like what lights me up more is seeing someone step into their home for the first time, and they see this raised bed on this wood that the carpenters that learn carpentry from us hand built, and them say, I've never seen a bed before, I've never sat in a bed before, I've never laid in a bed before. And a grandmother, I'm thinking of Dingoro, she's in her 70s, and I got to see her walk open the door. It was this like grand opening of her home, and it has a mosquito net on the bed, and her laying down on it for the first time, and that face of her having um the smile, the joy, her feeling a pillow and putting her head on it. Like that for me is what it's all about, not about this person that doesn't get it, right? And so it's been it's been so much more like I don't know, just it's opened my horizons uh to like what what this life at the end of the day, I'm not gonna be thinking about um the fame and the material stuff, except for what what what I was able to help provide to other people and and the experiences of life, the memories, like those are the things not that I don't want any woulda coulda shoulda's in my life, and I don't think I'm gonna have a woulda coulda shoulda taken another fight, um, been in front of all these crowds or whatever, and gotten my hand raised another time or two. It's like, how how can we get these next 60 people into homes? And then the next 60 or the next hundred or the next 10, um, or the next one. Honestly, the next one is more important, like seeing uh another grandmother getting into a home and and sitting down with her grandbabies on her couch uh and showing off her bed to to like these four and five-year-olds that they're gonna be able to step into their homes too. Like that to me is uh at least for me personally, that's what it's all about. And um, yeah, it's been really, really fun to uh to be part of. It's a life I don't think I could have planned for myself, but since it was a gift given, it's like I want to make the most of that that gift.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Okay, no, that is awesome. Truly, truly, truly awesome. Now, you know, I I I think that you know the moral and and and the takeaway from what you just said is yes, people helping people, but actions speak louder than words, right? To kind of summarize everything. Now, I I want I would love to continue this conversation, but you know, we we are really pushing time, and so we we we need to start transitioning. But I'm gonna ask you that. That's that that that last question I ask everybody. And the last question is you know, what keeps you going? What keeps you driving forward? What keeps you motivated day in, day out, and not give up.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Um please share.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Yeah, um, you know, I'm a I was a fighter, and I think in many times in my life, I needed a a fight um to get up in the morning. Something I needed a battle, I needed a struggle, um, something. But through the healing process, I realized like loved people, love people. I mean, like, yeah, hurt people hurt people, but loved people, love people, or healed people help others heal. And being on this healing journey, it's it's it's the relationships in my life. Um, it's our team members that depend on me raising the money so that they can have their jobs, that they can help the community I love first and foremost. Uh, it's getting on stage and being able to hopefully impart some of my life experience that will benefit someone else's life and their experience. Uh, just at the end of the day, we're all we're all trying to just do our best. And so, in the if I can do one thing today that benefits the life of another human being, uh, that that gives me so much joy and fulfillment and purpose. And so when I wake up in the morning, I'm grateful. I I I I try to say that I'm grateful for the breath in my lungs, I'm grateful for the beating heart in my chest. And then as I shower and get up and get the cement off my eyes, I'm like, how, how, who I have my head on a swivel. Uh, normally, I have my head on a swivel looking for someone today that I can help. And oftentimes it's overseas, but sometimes it's the person right in front of me at the restaurant that's my server. Other times it's uh it's it's a kid that's been bullied that someone reaches out, other times it's uh plain Santa Claus at the children's hospital. Uh, we just had that, and so it's um there's opportunities all around us, and I just try to increase my awareness of um seeing those opportunities and not letting them slip by and being in the car later and thinking, oh, I could have done this, I could have done that. And it's not always about that, like it's taking care of me too, it's taking care of my wife. I'm in a new marriage, and uh and and um it's been awesome. And so part of getting this, you know, no one can see this, I don't think, but I'm on this tour bus right now. And it's so if I'm doing 50 events a year, maybe five or ten of them, uh, we can make a trip out of it and stay in our own bed and connect with one another, and that's what we did over New Year's, and um, and it was really special. So trying to find those special moments um to to make life a little better, a little brighter uh for somebody else, or for us, or for her, my wife, uh, or for our girls, her two daughters, um, her biological daughters, but but I'm uh now a bonus dad, and it's it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

So that's awesome. That is awesome. And you you're right. They they this is only an audio podcast, but if they could see your tour bus, it is awesome. Anyways, uh so Justin, where is our transition to the second segment of our podcast? Now, this is where we sometimes you know play Jeopardy or or share some dad jokes, uh, but we're gonna try a new game. And the new game is called Wrong Answers Only. So bear with me one second while I bring my wrong answers-only board screen into the screen. Now, as always, uh, people can't see this, so I'll I'll quickly explain it and explain how we're gonna go about and play wrong answers only. So the two Justins, Justin, it's gonna be Justin Hawk versus Justin Wren. You are each gonna have one minute to answer as many questions as you possibly can. Or sorry, respond to as many statements as you possibly can. Okay. The goal of your response is obviously to provide a wrong answer only. Now, as you can see down at the bottom, you have two, we have two buttons, not wrong or wrong. Okay, so not wrong would be something like you answer the question correctly, right? Uh so for example, uh, what is a s uh a country in Europe that starts with F, right? And let's say you you just instinctly think, well, this is trivia, I'm gonna respond back with France, right? Well, that's obviously a wrong answer. So I'm gonna say not wrong. In theory, you should have said Spain, right? Wrong answers only. So you guys get it. The funnier the response, the more likely it's gonna be a wrong. So I got control of the right and wrong. Yes, I'm judge and jury. Uh so let's just have some fun with this. Justin Wren, you get to go first, you have a minute. You ready? Yes. All right, let's start the clock. Uh I'll read the statement, you just respond.

SPEAKER_04 48:48

Here we go. How many are in a pair? Or point to your nose.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

So for those that didn't see, he pointed to his ear. Um in which country would you find Burj Al-Arab? Or Arab? Congo. Congo? I have no idea if that's right. That's wrong. That's wrong. All right. Um, what currency is used in England?

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Shillings. Shillings? Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

You got in shillings, so I'm sorry, Justin, I'm gonna give you not wrong for that. Name a tropical fruit.

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Uh a um ribeye. Ribye.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

What color is a winner's medal? Silver. Silver. I mean, if you're not first, you're last. Um in which country would you find Sydney Opera House? Oh, out of time. You scored four. You scored a lot more than that. I don't understand how the score scoring came about, but it says you scored four. I marked that you were right a lot, so I don't know what that means, what the four means, but as of right now, you have a four. All right, Hawk.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

You ready to go? Yep, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

All right, here we go. Starting the clock. One minute. Name a day of the week beginning with S. Thursday.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

What does an opt optician look after?

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Um what is the capital of Spain? Washington, DC. Yes, it is. Name a three-sided shape. Where of course? Of course, man, of course. Um what sport is is Ain Bolt famous for? Swimming.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Wasn't he a linebacker?

SPEAKER_03 50:54

He was a linebacker. Sorry, Justin. That wasn't Hawk, that wasn't that good of an answer. Which month of the year starts with A?

SPEAKER_04 51:03

March.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Name a brass instrument. Guitar. I think guitar's gonna be brass, actually. Um, or it's a metal guitar, whatever. What comes after March? Ooh, see, January. Oh, apparently you scored five.

SPEAKER_05 51:25

Fox the channel or anything from April to December on that one. I already know that. What comes after March? October. No, that's wrong.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

I would have. I 100% would have. All right, well, I know. Justin Wren, that wraps up this episode's version of Wrong Answers Only. Thank you very much for playing with us. Yeah. You know, Justin, you know, I I truly do appreciate you taking time out of your really your hectic schedule. You're you're a man who's not only all over the country, you're all over the world. So again, you know, we are humbled that that we could find time to really get you on here. I mean, this you were amazing at our annual conference. You were amazing for the this episode. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Yeah, thank you all so much for having me. It's a special, special, special uh group of your members and your people. Um, so I hope they keep coming back because um just one of the things I said was a Swahili proverb if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. So, really simply put, like we really are better together. And I think um it's gonna be a team effort. It's gonna be uh the association and your members and your community um that makes all the difference in our country that that we need. Um so I was happy to support y'all. So thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Okay, love it. Hawk, thank you very much. Of course, it was my pleasure. And to close out, thank you again to Zacdas for sponsoring today's episode. And to all of you, we know your time is valuable. Thank you for tuning in to the latest episode of Acuma's On Point Podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Until next time, you won't.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time at the Acuma on Point Podcast. If not already, be sure to subscribe and give us a five star rating. For more great episodes and information, be sure to visit us online at Acuma.org. And to get the latest updates, head over to our LinkedIn page.