Indiana's Roads: Funding Shortfalls, Safety Innovations and Exploring Solutions w/Rep. Jim Pressel

Blake and Earl sit down with Representative Jim Pressel to tackle Indiana's looming $1.3 billion road funding shortfall. They break down the impact of inflation, better gas mileage, and COVID-19 on state revenues, and explore solutions, including proposals adopted by Tennessee and Georgia.

Pressel also shares the emotional moments behind key safety initiatives, which have already made construction zones safer for workers and motorists alike. Plus, hear Pressel’s personal journey from business owner to policymaker, and Blake’s bittersweet announcement about stepping back from the roads committee.

Tune in for a candid conversation about the challenges and opportunities in funding Indiana’s future infrastructure!

Show Notes
Topics Discussed:

1. Indiana’s Road Funding Crisis
   • Projected $1.2–$1.3 billion shortfall by 2030.
   • Impact of inflation, fuel efficiency, and reduced gas sales.
   • Challenges in balancing state vs. local funding needs.
2. Tolling as a Revenue Solution
   • Insights from Tennessee and Georgia’s tolling models.
   • Balancing fairness for Indiana taxpayers and out-of-state drivers.
   • Legislative steps needed to implement tolling.
3. Safety Innovations in Construction Zones
   • Success of initiatives reducing speeds by 8 mph in work zones.
   • Emotional stories from the roads committee about worker and motorist safety.
4. Emotional Moments in Policy Making
   • Reflections on the human impact of infrastructure policy.
   • The challenges of addressing distracted driving and other safety issues.
5. Personal Journeys
   • Jim Pressel’s path to public office, fueled by a desire to influence policy affecting his business.
   • Blake Johnson’s decision to step back from the roads committee due to a new full-time job.

Transcript

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Next order of business is roll call members. Please indicate your presence when the machine is open, all the members, go ahead, talley the roll Welcome back to session sessions. I'm your host, Blake Johnson, alongside my good friend Earl Harris Jr, and today's special day, we've got a good guest. He is a small business owner, born and raised La Porte County, serves on utilities, chairs the roads committee, and is also on the Elections Committee. Calls the city of rolling Prairie Home, and he's most famous, if you followed me over the years, most famous for giving my friends ammunition and bringing me to inconsolable tears in committee. And Forever I'll be known crier Blake Johnson in the press because of his service to the state of Indiana. We have the one and only chairman, Jim Pressel, Jim, thanks for coming on and being a part of the show. Hey, thanks for having me, you know. And I do think back at that committee hearing often, I, I often think about the, what, how did the Indy Star Report? It the pregnant pause. The pregnant pause, yeah, when all that took place that was, that was one of the toughest days, I think, in committee, that I've had. So it's tough for both of us. My friend, it all worked out. I was, I was at a breaking point, and then it all worked out, well, we're excited to have Jim on. Jim chairs the roads, transportation committees we talked about on the last episode, transportation is going to be a big issue this session. Jim, why don't you kind of just give us a lay of the land on what's happening coming into the legislature this year as it relates to road funding in particular. Well, so road funding, when we came in, Earl and I came in together, we're classmates. So when we came in in 2017 we started with probably what's been labeled as the largest tax increase in Indiana, 10 cents per gallon. I had no idea I was going to get to vote on that my first year, but was excited at the same time, because, you know, my constituents complain a lot about roads, a lot about infrastructure issues, and it comes down to dollars in what we did in 2017 really set the stage is a fully funded road funding program. Now fast forward a little bit. Nobody really seen the COVID thing coming on, the pandemic and then the inflation that followed that. So we're in a new world right now. Prices of things from asphalt to eggs. I mean, it's it's expensive, so that model is based on gallons sold. And if that's a business model and a revenue stream, and less gallons get sold, but things cost 30 or 40 or 50% more than what they did, you have a revenue stream problem, and you really need to start looking at, you know, how do you replace that revenue? So I usually start off with, people are getting better gas mileage. And that's just, that's just a fact, hybrids and electric they are they hybrids and electrics are playing a role in this, right? But it's such a small number we need to be aware of that. We need to be cognizant. Of that fact, but it's a small number right now, the big thing is, people get better gas mileage. Price of gas is coming down. So if you're selling less gas, regardless if it's EV or a hybrid or just you're getting better mileage, or you're driving less, maybe you're staying home for work, right? We don't have the revenue to do what we need to do with road funding. So that really gets us to our problem. And when we look at kind of projections from people way smarter than I am, okay, yeah, look into the future and go, you know, by 2030 you're going to have a shortfall on the state side of road funding of about 1.2 $1.3 billion that's a real number. So we're already seeing that. So I believe that 2030, number, that cliff that you'll hear me refer to quite often, probably this session, is it's getting to us faster than what, even the people way smarter than all three of us, I think we've agreed to that are projecting. So the there's the local component too. So we're only talking about the state at 1.2 billion short. And what we have really figured out through LTAP, and again, people way smarter than than me, doing projections, the local need is almost double what the state need is. So that's what we're going to be focused on, is figuring out, how do we not hit that cliff? And I think we got to ask ourselves, first and foremost, what is the expectation of the infrastructure that we drive on the infrastructure below the infrastructure that we drive on? What is our expectation? Because. If our expectation is I love potholes, then we don't have a problem if our paying for car repair exactly, or if our expectation is to reform, though I love tort reform, that's a whole other show, right? So congestion, one of my goals is to really figure out, how do we make 76 lanes, border to border. How do we make 65 six lanes, border to border? That congestion is real, and it's driven by Indiana's growing. We're doing a good job with economic development projects, and I love that. We're doing that, right? But with that comes more people, more people on the road. So that's the goal. And you mentioned the local concern, right? You know, I think you know, there are communities where to keep things just where they're at. It's half a million dollars a year, right? Or half a billion dollars a year. I'm sorry, Indianapolis, that's, you know, it really is half a billion dollars a year just to keep things where it's at, to improvement fund, improvements you're looking at in some communities alone, over a billion dollars just to make things, things work. So this 2030 which is feeling much closer than it did before, is really kind of bearing down on folks well. And I want to follow up a little bit to what Blake just said. I think people forget it's this is going to impact depending on the condition of the roads. You know, some are going to need more help, which means more money, some are going to be less. And then part of it also is, I believe we've discussed, is, let's try to keep things where it's a maintenance only and less repair. So speaking of smart people, there was a task force that actually delved into this over the interim, talk to us about results and lead us down the path of where we're going. So the task force, and actually it's a really were weird name for a task force, because the the first task force. And don't ask me what the acronym stands for, because I don't know. Maybe you've got it written down. I'm can't remember funding Indiana roads for a stronger, safer tomorrow Task Force. There you go. So that actually was put in place. See notes, help Blake prior to, I'm glad you keep them prior to the 2017 bill that we voted on. So the Senate decided we should bring back the first task force for the second time. So it's kind of like the first second task force or the second first task force. Yeah. So it was like, government it is, yeah. I'm like, I had no control over any of those. But so we we listened to in diet, we listened to industry stakeholders, and we listened to LTAP, providing the the local input at the task force. And we came to the conclusion that, you know, we need to fix our revenue stream. We need to take a look at Community crossings and the the distribution of that, what's right for it, and then set the stage for what does this look like in the future? That's really what came out of it. I'm sure we had better, cleaner bullet points that came out of it, but that's the reality. So we took a look at it. In my mind, I would like to have met a whole lot more often than what we did. We met twice last year and the year prior to that, I think we met once. So whether timing was a factor in all that, I really don't know. I didn't get to chair that I was a member of it, but I think more input would have been important, and that's what you're going to see me do in transportation. Sorry, Earl, I'm going to be taking up a lot of your time and committee this year, but we're going to have a really good conversation about that Well, and I think that's a good way to go. I know that as I remember correctly, and I don't ask me to give the specific locations, but we had people speak that have worked on this problem in other states. Yeah, so sometimes being not first is a good thing, because you can see the path that others have chosen to go. Yes, good idea. No, bad idea. But I think, you know, I know we're kind of having some fun with the fact of taking up time, but that's going to be a necessity, is to have some good conversation and talk about different options that are on the table, because no matter where you are, you're in a car, driving or riding somewhere, and as you say, we don't want to be falling in a potholes every other mile, right? And we don't want to be stuck in traffic. Yeah, right. I definitely don't like getting stuck in traffic. Everybody's got a really condensed timetable these days. You know, we got to be here now, and that congestion is not the way to make that happen. And commerce, right? Yeah. So the motor carriers, they're very concerned. They're concerned that they don't want to pay anymore. And I get that I don't. Nobody wants to pay anymore. I mean, take we'll take a vote, right? Anybody want to pay any more? No, yeah, unanimous. Actually, I do. We're voting him road. You're off the island Blake. No wonder you're no longer on roads. Yeah, we'll get to that point. Yeah. When you look at where we are in northern Indiana, 8094 is just basically Crossroads to the country. So I know I often get on 8094, and there's just trucks, trucks, trucks, trucks, trucks, yeah, which we need because as commerce, moving things back and forth, so they're spending a lot of time on the highway. But as you said, nobody wants to pay more, right? They don't. Nobody, nobody wants to pay more. I don't, but I. I want good roads. So you know is there, is there somewhere in between, right? You don't want to pay more for traveling on roads, or I'm willing to pay more if I have good roads, yeah, and I have no congestion, yeah, right? Traffic. So that maybe I know, I don't know if you want me to mention the T word or not, but I'm happy to dive in there. I don't want you to, but I think we have to go down that path. So turmeric. So great spice. Does that know we're talking about? No, I don't think turmeric. Turmeric doesn't help with roads, unless you fill in potholes with it. But really would have to pack it very tight. Go ahead, you guys. Go ahead. I'll just we opened up Pandora's box here. So, I mean, tolling is an option. It is because it's a choice. I've looked at other states and what they've done, Tennessee had a model where they partnered up with an outside concessionaire, and they call it a choice lane. So basically, the state of Tennessee got a 80% discount on added capacity. So they got a billion dollars worth of infrastructure, added additional lanes, and they paid 200 million for the billion dollar project. And then people choose to use those two lanes in congestion, right? So you can pay for it. You can get in those two lanes and you're gonna get a bill for it. And depending on what time you get into those lanes, you may pay more for that privilege, or you could pay less if nobody else is out there. So that's one model. You could do some legislator lanes, though, too. You know a fast lane, folks coming from North and South, they'll be in that lane. I'll pay for the privilege. Yeah. So Georgia really did an interesting deal, and this was maybe two, three months ago, they did 13 miles, and their p3 project, really, they got $4 billion up front, money to the state to really allocate for more road funding projects outside of that area. And they created a toll system, and they got $4 billion worth of infrastructure improvement. So, I mean, that's an interesting model, right? Somebody else pays for the infrastructure. You still own it, and they're gonna pay you $4 billion up front money. Yeah? One reality we should acknowledge here, though, Jim, is that our transportation secretary is about to roll off, and you're gonna have somebody on your side, so you better get him on the phone. We could get a hold of good old Pete, but, yeah, it's a whole nother ball game. He's not helping. You know, I did have Pete Bucha judges phone number, but I've tried to call him, and I get crickets, nothing. You should have had us call him. Yeah, it would have helped. Yeah, he picks up the phone for you guys. But not me. A long time since he was picking up the phone himself. I think, yeah, exactly. What's that noise I always knew to email in the office, at least. Yeah, that was something interesting stuff. So, you know, that'll be part of the equation. Earl, I think, you know the this is not an Indiana specific problem. I talked to legislators across the nation, and they're all struggling with this, and they all have different models and different ideas, different thoughts, from VMT, vehicle miles traveled to ruck, right road, usage charge and really, ruck is VMT with a new name, because VMT got a bad name. So there's the rock. There's choice lanes, like what Tennessee did. There are opportunities in the introduced bill that I put out. There just some food for thought, right? Is this a good idea or not? Is having a user fee on delivered items, purchased items, purchase it, or deliver? Minnesota did it? There's been a few other states that have kind of toyed with this. So there's, there's got to be some solutions on the local side that are going to be local options, is my thought, right? So what works for La Porte County is not going to work for Lake County, and it's definitely not going to work for Indianapolis, yeah, but if for Indianapolis, what the need is there is greater than La Porte County, and I'm not going to need that. So it's more of a choice thing. I think what you're going to see us really talking about is putting tools in the toolbox and letting locals decide what tool is best for them, and before we jump totally off the tolling thing. Yeah, you and I, again, are Northern Indiana. Blake is here. When we talk about tolling, I know that's a dirty word in where you and I live, yeah, but that tolling is not just in our area, is talked about in other areas as well in the state it is. So, yeah, this is not going to be targeted to Northern Indiana. So I have a toll road my backyard, as you do, right? So I think everybody should have one. Let's, let's, let's, let's share in that. And I think 70, all serious 70, is a prime candidate, in my mind, because you can get across the state of Indiana, we're about 160 miles wide, and never stop to even buy in a Big Mac. Yeah. Uh, fill up your car, nothing. So water, nothing. The question's really got to be, is it fair that Hoosiers pay for the added capacity, pay for the maintenance, when probably 70% of that traffic is out of state. So I think we should share some of that with people from out of state, from anywhere. And it's, it's really, it's a user charge. It's a user fee for doing that. And that's been our model for quite some time. It's you pay for what you use. And I think this does make a lot of sense. And 65 you know, at some point, I think there's a great argument to we should toll 65 but that's going to be decisions way above my pay grade. Our job really in this is to provide the executive branch the tools to do what they think is going to work right, and suggest a lot of things. Put some framework in there. Yeah, yeah. So you know, and I'm a little cautious of that, because we are in northern Indiana, so you're going to love this. In that introduced version, there's some guardrails put, go figure guard rails in a road. Nice, right? So currently, current law, the governor can do this right now without any action from the General Assembly, but it has to be located. It can be no nearer than 75 miles from an existing toll. So that allows, you know, southern Indiana on 65 the toll bridge going across. They couldn't start it till 74 till 75 miles north. And in our area, they couldn't start it until 75 miles south. So that needs to stay in place until the waiver for tolling is at least applied for. So there's my guardrails. You're not going to put this on the burden or on the backs of Northern Indiana again, but I believe it's good policy that we consider tolling in other parts of the state. Okay, Jim, I give you a chance to talk about another initiative that I know is important to you and that is parallel important to me. You know, we've talked in the past, and I think we were on a panel together recently where I mentioned that, you know, part of this conversation is around how we fund the infrastructure so it exists, so travel is easier and safer. And I kind of want to lean on the safer part for a second here you champion an initiative to pilot work around construction zones and trying to reduce the rate of speed through those construction zones make them safer for the workers. I know that was a big win for you to start to see data. And I'm guessing, and I'm actually certain, we're seeing data showing those construction zones are safer. You don't talk a little bit about their work you did on that, that was a huge lift. And I appreciate your assistance on that too. So, you know, getting that across the finish line, I think it took four years to do. We put a lot of safeguards in that. And it's really, it's a conversation about, how do we protect the traveling motorist along with construction workers in that? So, I mean, it's interesting, everybody thought that was really about protecting the construction worker only. But the reality is, more accidents and more injuries and more fatalities were on the traveling motorist side. Yeah, so it's about protecting everybody, and realistically, we just need to be aware. You need to slow down. You know, there are times you need to slow down, and I'm guilty, as you know everybody else, when I'm driving down the road, I'm probably driving more than the speed limit, right? But you just need to pause a minute in those construction zones and take an extra 30 seconds, because an extra 30 seconds wasted on my life is a lifetime that somebody is still going to live. Yeah. So it's been a good, good result. We're dropping speeds in there by an average of eight mile an hour. I mean, it's been really good when we were in committee, and I won't get into the exact details of the story, but there was a story told of what something that happened and the impact that had on a family that didn't leave a dry eye in the committee. And you know, I think you're right. You we're looking at, we're in a vehicle. You're looking at people that are working to make our roads better and safer. They don't have any protection. I mean, even if there's a little protection there of a small wall, it's not going to stop a vehicle that's going too fast, right? So I'm glad we were able to do some good. And it came out of some tragedy, tragedy, but as often happens, strategy, tragedy, I can't get the word out, yeah, leads to some good things. So I'm glad we're able to do it, does, you know? And I that that's another one, you know, Blake's was when we did the Indigo thing, that was a very emotional bill the second half of that in committee, but that's another one. And I think you were in there during that committee too, Blake, and that was very emotionally charged. I won't talk about the member that is very hardcore, that was teared up. And I never thought I would see that. And then when I tried to say something at the end of that committee meeting to that father. That was a very tough moment. I'm getting goosebumps right now just thinking about it. So after that was all over, the Governor did have a ceremony and bill signing, and I passed that on to that father, along with the pen. And, you know, said this mean a whole lot more to you than it will ever mean to me. Yeah, I want to talk about, you know, first I got, I gotta, I gotta say it, right? We're gonna have a lot. Of great data out of this that shows how much safer streets can be. Same could be applied to school zones. You know that I'll keep fighting for that, and you have a feel for that. Yeah, I gotta, I gotta build, there's an app for that. I got a bill. I do want to say, just kind of along the same lines, like, I think, you know, it's interesting. I was talking to another member of the roads committee, and he said to me, when we first came in, he's like, you know, I didn't expect the roads committee to be a place where, like, there would be, like, these sort of big emotional moments, or really controversial conversations, or tough conversations. Like, I didn't like that. Didn't feel like the committee where that was going to happen. But in the time you've been chair, there have been tons of emotional moments, tons of tough discussions. I mean, we're memorializing individuals on bridges and roads. Did you expect that coming in? Did you have a kind of understanding of just how the kind of range of human experience that exists on the roads and transportation committee? No, I had no idea. I served on roads for two years, and during that two year time frame, we didn't do a whole lot. We named some roads and some bridges and we did some minor stuff, right? But I had no idea when I became chairman of that committee that the challenges and the emotion that leads to those challenges would be anything like what it is. I mean, even when we talked about distracted driving and just people that testify and are willing to be so brave as to pour their soul out in front of total strangers and be archived forever is just so commendable and touching, right? But that that gets us to good policy. But, man, it's, it's been tough in a lot of those issues. I don't know how much time we have left, because we haven't been paying attention. We haven't been but, you know, we have, we can just have it on the show. Jacob. How much time we got? You got any idea he's taking a nap? We'll just keep we got five more minutes? Okay, I don't I want that in the show. I don't want that edit out. We need Jacob. Without Jacob, nothing happens. But we have to make sure that the two still members of roads and transportation have a conversation with you about why you're no longer on the committee. That's how we'll finish. Let me ask you this first, okay, how does a guy all right? Jim Pressel, James, how does Jim works really well. How does Jim Pressel, you know, home builder, small business owner, rolling prairie, Indiana, how you end up in the state house, what was kind of your path getting here? It was tequila in bad judgment. I think that's how Natalie had said she got married to me. I understand that. No, I, I spent a lot of time at the Home Builders Association at my local level. It really interested me on, you know, folks making policy that affected my my paycheck as a business owner, my ability to provide for my family, and there was no input at the local level on things they were doing rule wise, it affected me, so I got engaged at the planning commission, jumped in there, and then went through the process. I was president of the Indiana Builders Association for a year, and then the representative that was in here previous to me said, Hey, I'm going to retire, and you have beat on me for the last four years about safe and affordable housing. You understand the process. You're you're open and willing to negotiate and to find compromise. You would be a great legislator. Would you have any interest in doing this? And then the tequila? Yeah, bad judgment, yeah, right. Happens. That's what happens. That's a great story. You know, there's always a different path that all 150 of us take to get here. And the ones that I love hearing the most about are like you, as you said. You were like I was engaged, I was involved. I saw some stuff I wanted to make better. So instead of waiting for anybody else to make it better, I made that decision and leverage then your experience and expertise in the area to come and contribute in a meaningful way to it, which I think is another important piece, hence the infrastructure and sewer bills. Yeah, right. There you go. Yeah. Big bills, sewer bills. Yeah. Not sexy, not still necessarily important. Still. So here's what, here's here's what happened. Okay, here's what happened. As we wrap this up. I got really I got even busier. I took it. I got a new full time job. I'm getting busy because we have it is, actually, I think we this is a part time job. The legislature is a part time job. People forget sometimes, and especially folks that are just like paying attention. I think people think, I have people who still think we work in DC, but I took a full time job as an interim CEO of a nonprofit and had to scale back. I was on six committees the last two years, and so I had to scale back, and I did not make clear which committees that would be to the leadership, but they elected that despite my extraordinary successes on the roads committee, that I should serve somewhere else moving forward. So here I am without the two of you and and that's why I was really excited that this was going to be an episode this season, because when else I'm. Gonna get to talk to you guys. Are you believing that? No, I'm not sure. It was something I said. I think he just doesn't like either one of us. Yeah, again, known cry. I mean, the indie star doesn't mention me without talking about me being a known crier. So you know, I needed to get away from really emotional stuff, like what happens in the roads and transportation command and I need no more pregnant pauses All right. Before we wrap this up, I do want to bring up something. We had Chairman Ethan Manning on the show. He was our first Republican on. You actually were initially supposed to be the first Republican on, but a scheduling conflict. So glad that you're on. We are talking about him coming on when it was just the Blake Johnson show, but he wouldn't do it then, you know, he wouldn't do it then, you know, he couldn't back the bus up. He you, you being here is what made the difference. Earl, I didn't want to brag your your, Mr. Civility. It all made sense. He knew he could trust good, sanctity of this space. I would not put him down a bad path. So where I also want to go with this is we've had two Republicans on the show. Yeah, Chairman press was a second apparently, after Chairman Manning being on the show, Speaker Houston did not put out an all email to you to stay away and some Republicans. So we appreciate that. I think I say speaker Houston has now agreed to come on the show. Well, we're hoping that they made that invitation. Yet we're gonna have that conversation. We need Jim to go back. Jim can help us. I mean, help us the speaker, I think he'd be interested, but we won't even be. Won't even be. We won't even ask him about we won't even ask him about Illinois secession. Yeah, we won't even do it and leave it alone. We are welcoming state. Yeah, Indiana welcomes all. If they want to join us, I say let's love but let's tolerate Thank you. There you go. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time you