From the Trail to the Statehouse w/Rep. Carey Hamilton

Rep. Carey Hamilton takes us on a journey from the Appalachian Trail to the Indiana Statehouse. After hiking solo from Georgia to Maine, Carey’s transformative adventure sparked her passion for outdoor recreation and environmental policy. Now, as a leader in the legislature, she’s blazing trails in Indiana by advocating for sustainability policies, tackling the child care crisis, and creating the first-ever Trails Caucus. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about perseverance, leadership, and how personal experiences shape powerful public service.

Topics Discussed:
Carey Hamilton's journey to the State House and leadership as Caucus Chair
The ongoing child care crisis in Indiana and the economic impact
The push for Pre-K and child care reform
Carey’s work on creating the first-ever trail caucus in Indiana
Legislation for electric vehicle manufacturing and climate resilience
The state’s fiscal situation and road funding reform
Immigration reform and its implications for local communities
How Democrats are finding ways to push policy in a super minority

Transcript

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Next Door of business is roll call members. Please indicate your presence when the machine is open all the members, go ahead. Tyler, roll. Hey there. Welcome to Session. Sessions. Blake Johnson, I've got my host, Earl Harris Jr, and we're excited to be back. Got a great guest today, a high profile, high power broker of information and influence in the state legislature. She was first elected in 2016 district 87 she's previously served in the environmental industry for almost three decades. Most recently, I think, before going full time in this role, was an executive at a climate tech company. Okay, so this is Carrie Hamilton. She's been on before, but now in video, in full color, and so we're here to chat today about the happenings this week, and also a variety of issues. Carrie, thanks for coming on again, and this time with lights. My pleasure. I'm glad to be here. Thanks, gentlemen. Well, tell us first. You know, we did this, I think when it was just the audio version, but we've got way more viewers now that I'm not the only person in charge. Yeah. Thank you, Earl. Tell us about your journey to the legislature. I mean, you coming in in 2016 is an interesting time to have started. And just kind of give us the rundown. Who's Carrie Hamilton, yeah, well, uh, thanks for asking. So I was, I, um, pretty much grew up in Indianapolis, no relation to the Broadway Harold Hamilton, though, no relation to the Broadway Hamilton, just making sure, or the former mayor or the former congressman from southern Indiana, okay, although I admire those gentlemen greatly, there goes this thing along part of the show you the number. My, as you mentioned, My professional background is an environmental policy, primarily with with some corporate some nonprofit executive work and some government work as well. And I really came to that field from a human health and economic perspective, so toxic exposures causing cancer and all kinds of other issues for human beings, and realizing that we could mitigate that and do better, and it's good for the economy as well when we're smart about how we manage resources in our economy. And then I spent 10 years in the circular economy space, so working to improve recycling and waste reduction reuse, and that was also very much a big economy job in Indiana, running a statewide organization in Indiana, because we're a manufacturing state, so those manufacturers, we have a big footprint in glass, paper, plastic, aluminum, steel manufacturing, and those manufacturers want more recycled content to make new products, because they save on energy inputs and resource inputs. And so that work kind of exposed me to the State House. I started to work on policy to advance the circular economy in Indiana, with those manufacturers behind me supporting that work of our organization, and it was just incredibly inspiring work to be able to bring a powerful economic message to Something that helps the environment and reduces harmful impacts from, you know, toxic emissions, etc, to Hoosiers and a state with a lot of taxa commissions that was, you know, it's important work. So that exposure to the State House kind of brought me deeper into public policy, more broadly, and then eventually, in 2016 I had an opportunity to run for the state house, and here I am very good. We're glad you're here. We are glad you're here. You and I were elected the same year. We were both nine years Yeah, freshmen together, a much younger member. Sorry, I over here, yeah, but you look like so let's talk about your position with the House Democrats. You're actually in top three leadership. You are the caucus chair for those out there, because we try to pull back the veil of what goes on at state house. What does that mean? That means So, as you mentioned, there are three elected leaderships, position positions within House Democrats, and as caucus chair, my role is to work with that team to kind of we sit down together every week during session and talk about what big issues might be in front of us that we need to talk about when we're all together as a group. And then as Caucus Chair, I try to lead our caucus meetings, which is really babysit us, babysitting herding cats, you know, what have you. You know, we're a bunch of smart, passionate people working on issues, and we get in a room to talk about the bills we're about to vote on, and share expertise leaders on committees, sharing what they know about specific bills, and trying to, you know, make that conversation work well for everyone, and be efficient with our time, because we're always in a rush. That's a chunk of it. And then just. Some of the nuts and bolts of the caucus, managing the operation, if you will. Caucus is a fancy word for all the Democrats, that's right, which is a small number, yeah, and I will share another piece. So I've been in this role now. I've just started my third year, so my second term as caucus chair. And so last year was the first election year since I've been in this role, and I decided to kind of expand it as I left the corporate sector and had a little more time, and really wanted to focus on helping us grow our caucus. And I think moving forward, that's that will, as long as I'm in this role, will be a key part of it as well. That's the political side of the caucus, which we're not talking about so much today, but that is part of the role. So one of the things I also want to point out about you, and you kind of talked about your history, is you do walk it like you talk it. I notice you do drive a cool Electric Forest mine. You haven't given me a ride yet. And you also have, instead of taking the elevator, and you've made me walk with you because you are a stair taker at the state house. Yeah, so let's get into a little bit of let's jump into some policy. She's also meeting us use less lights today. I know some candles that the viewers don't see on. We put a solar panel up top, like an hour. This is the weirdest episode we've ever had. We are a zero emission set right now. I love it. If it goes dark, it means he's fainted. Yeah, that's right. So, Larry Jacobs, so let's get into some policy. You are a mom. I am a mom, and I know that you have a great interest in as Blake as a father. I know you have some great interest in child care. Talk to us about some initiatives you're working on in that arena. Yeah, thank you. So you know, back when my kids were young, and I was working and my husband was working, and we were trying to figure out childcare, it was not easy back then, and we had the resources, and it was still challenging. Today, it's much worse for Hoosier families. We have a true crisis in Indiana. We've known this for several years, but just this past summer, the State Chamber of Commerce came out with new a new study that showed our Hoosier economy is losing $4.2 billion every year because of lack of access to child care, affordable child care, and and we know that because employers are struggling to bring folks in and families Who would like to work but don't have that resource for their children, and it's a big drain, obviously, on our economy, but it hurts our families. So this is an opportunity. This is a challenge for our state that the legislature has to help solve. The free market is not solving it for us and and what we're seeing across the country is states stepping up to provide support, to build out more infrastructure, to make it more affordable. There are a variety of different policy tools to do that. If you want to get into that, I can talk about that a little bit, but we have to, we have to really step up. And so far, we haven't. And I'm hoping this year we can, in a budget year, we can start to make some progress. So in the in the right now, I mean, the Speaker has said, and this is why I filed my bill, which we know about too, yeah, yeah, that the state, at this point doesn't see pre K at least as their responsibility, right? So, you know, my bill, which we talked about, was giving the counties an opportunity to say that it will be their priority, and they'll, they'll, they'll have to find a way to pay for it, but give them the tool to do so what else is kind of on the docket that you're thinking could be a way to get there? Well, let's talk about that a little. More so about that a little more. So pre k is, I think that's the low hanging fruit. So we've our business community has come together for years to support pre k for all, and that means we have our four year olds have access to high quality early learning that solves the child care crisis, starting when your kids hit four. So that's a big chunk of the child care crisis, and we know that that investment in pre K pays off many times over for us as taxpayers. You know, kids get a better start. Some kids come into pre K or kindergarten when they don't have exposure to pre k, and this is the challenge, right? They come into kindergarten they've never held a pencil or a crayon. They don't know their numbers, they haven't really been in social environments with other kids, and so they have a big learning curve when, when pre K is provided to all children. They have that those exposures earlier before coming into kindergarten and beyond, and that helps them succeed. Well, it's true of also just regular early like any my kid, my kid is, he's 16 months. He goes to early child education. He is, he comes home and is doing things. I'm like, where did you learn that? As Miss Dina, is Miss Dina doing all this like, isn't it's incredible. And so that's not even at three or four years old. That's at 16 months. The foundation that he's laying by being in that environment. And we're lucky, because we can afford to do it. It's still incredibly expensive, but like, we're able to do it, it's, it's remarkable though, that if you don't, if you don't have that framework and that foundation, you really are starting with an anchor around your neck. Yeah, I think as as the legislature, one of our key jobs is to make sure every Hoosier child, everyone born in Indiana, has a chance to thrive. And so. When we think about public policy, I think it needs to be cradle to career, and that starts with, you know, high quality childcare and pre k for all. And I have to mention that the really sobering statistic that Indiana is one of only six states that doesn't significantly invest in pre k1, of only six states that's not good. Yeah, yeah. I worked in public education for a long time, and we were pushing for kindergarten. But the reality of the conversations that took place, or that is, get the child, your son's perfect example, get kids learning as soon as possible, because they can. Obviously they can. And so anything you can do to start that process for their brains to develop, and also the socialization, because if you're, I mean, you will, you have a second child on the way, but right now, spoiler alert. Sorry, you know right now, Lynn is an only child. Yeah. I mean, I was, I grew up an only child, but I was lucky enough to have cousins next door and all around and family members. But sometimes that socialization doesn't happen, depending on what your family structure is, right? And if Len were just around now, and I though the words he'd be learning would not be quite what we're looking for, definitely more interested in what childcare provides. So it really it's vital that we do what we can to get our young babies, educated at an early age, and glad you're focusing on that. Thank you. Let's shift gears to something else. I made a reference how you have made me walk the stairs with you. You are a big person in terms of walking, in terms of trails. You actually started a trail caucus, yeah? Give us some background, yeah. I'm going to kind of go way back quickly. When I was in middle school, I was the summer camp, and it was like 20 kids and a lady with a little old, beat up bus, and she'd drive us around. It was day camp, but she took us one day to McCormick's Creek State Park, Miss Brannigan at McCormick's Creek State Park, and would let us loose just, you know, free range kids. And so I was with two friends, and we had, like, three hours to run around the park, and we ran up and down the creek and up and down trails, and picked up a rock and there was a little snake. The first time I saw a snake in the wilderness, in the wild, and splashed and got muddy and had a blast. And kind of, fell in love with the outdoors that day. I fell in love with the not, kind of, I fell in love with the outdoors that day. And then, jump ahead, I was just out of college, working in state government, my first job at the Department of Environmental Management, and I learned about the Appalachian Trail. And I had never, I never hiked and backpacked overnight. I had done day hikes at that point out west and some some fun day adventures, but I read this book about a woman who at the age of 50, and here I was 25 she was 50. She quit her job, newly empty nester, newly divorced, and hiked from Georgia to Maine and wrote this book. And I thought, and it was like, very practical, like, how do you how do you do this? And what was the day in the life of and I thought, oh my gosh, I could do that. And that's so exciting, and how empowering, and a great physical and mental and emotional challenge, and so I quit my job and hiked from Georgia to Maine. Wow. I did not know that. So I was just incredibly fortunate. I by yourself, by myself. I started out by myself, but because of the book, I knew I would meet this trail community, sure, and then a lot of people that hike from Georgia to Maine every year through hikers that hike the whole trail. They start in the spring, they end in the fall. It's a lot of new college grads or young professionals. It's also a lot of newly retired folks. And that there was a community. So I felt confident that I would be part of this community based on what I'd read, and started out by myself. My dad drove me down to Georgia, dropped me off on the top of Springer Mountain. Did he have any company protests he had? He had two things he kind of left me with. One was he made me carry an old cell phone when it was early days in cell phones and it but it was buried in the bottom of my backpack, and I would ship my charger ahead and a little box of supplies and charge it in a every couple of weeks. That was his little you know, made him feel a little better about it. But he also, when he dropped me off on the trail, he decided my nickname, because everybody has a trail name. This one did not stick, by the way, but he called me bear bait. Oh, I see that coming up? Oh no, oh no. He has a sense of humor. I think that was his way of kind of, you know, rationalizing some part of his brain actually had a different trail name, which we will not talk about today. But anyway, that the point of that experience. So all of the kind of the reality of outdoor recreation as an industry, as an opportunity for people to expand their horizons and trails, you know, all of that kind of became important to me in my life, and then as I kind of went back to my career after that, back to the real world. Was started thinking more about public policy. Before I got into the circular economy space, I spent time and energy learning about the built environment and in our communities and how and I know you, you work a lot on safe communities, walking, biking, etc, intersections, and that very much overlaps with the trails work in the legislature. So soon after we were elected, I realized there was kind of a void of leadership in this space, and it was also potentially very bipartisan. So I first crafted it sort of started with crafting legislation. The first bill I passed, which was, you may remember this, to create immunity for property owners along trails. And there's a powerful little story here. So my district at the time included the Monon Trail in Indianapolis. Now I go just almost to it, but before redistricting, and there was a neighborhood along the Monon Trail on the north side of Indianapolis, near Nora, and there was someone who was being a good neighbor, created a path to the Monon Trail through their property to be nice neighbor, because there was no safe way to get to the trail. Otherwise, you had to go out on a busy road to get around to the trail. And then suddenly the city was doing a project to update the trail, which was good. And they said to all the property owners, by the way, you have to buy liability insurance if you're going to have access to the trail. So I thought, boy, it just doesn't make sense to penalize these folks. Make them buy insurance for the privilege of being good neighbors, right? Like, so we So, yeah, yeah, goes unpunished, right? So I passed legislation to create immunity for property owners long trails, and then within a few months of the legislation passing, I had a couple of different developers reach out to me and say, That's incredibly helpful legislation. You're speeding along some new projects we have on some new trails in Indiana. Thank you. I thought, wow, that's how cool is that? Soon thereafter, I got to know the Indiana greenways Foundation, and they had the idea of creating a trails caucus, they sent out an email to their members and said, hey, well, it happened to be January of 2020. I was sitting in the House chamber waiting for us to start business, checking out my email, catching up. Opened this email, it said something about trails caucus, and within like 20 seconds, I was talking to their executive director. And a couple of weeks later, we launched the trails caucus, and we have, we did, yeah, and, and it's, we've created the first ever legislatively designated trail funding in the state, $90 million over the last two budgets. So I'm a I have walked on trails. But one of the other things I want to point out, because I love bike riding, bike riding, I know right on trails, yeah, it's on both sides of that. You know, that's a perfect example of you living it as you do it, and having those conversations with people. And it led to legislation, and it led to helping people, helping development, etc, but all, but also, like, isn't it great when you know what you actually care about, gets to line up to a public policy. It's so awesome, right? And it doesn't happen all the time. I mean, you get assigned to committees, and maybe you committees, and maybe you don't necessarily have an interest, and then you find your way into some expertise, but you're getting to kind of live out one of the cool things about our citizen legislature is we all bring our lived experiences, and in a short amount of time we're in the building every year, not that short, sometimes, like an attorney, it Certainly does, but we bring those lived experiences and do good things. Let's, let's pivot a little bit just to kind of what's happening right now in the legislature. We've got the budget is starting like conversations are starting to move. Obviously, there's been hearings. You guys are probably read into that, maybe more than I am, as I'm on public policy and local government, and we just haven't seen any of it yet. But kind of, what's your impression of session so far, we got a new administration. We've had the state of the state, any takeaways? Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of a, it's a big year because of the new administration, right? I mean, the last since we've been in office, we've had the same governor, and so they came the new administration. Governor, bronze administration comes in with almost no time to craft a budget. So they put something together pretty quickly, right? It has some things that have us nervous, but I think the conversations really kind of start then, with our colleagues in the House, with the Senate, but also with the administration. As time unfolds, I was concerned. There is the trails. Money was zeroed out from 30 million in last budget to zero now, and I'm hopeful we can put some money there. We do have a tighter fiscal situation than we've seen any trails and Jasper we can talk about. I mean, that might help. That conversation is in progress, and in Hendricks County. So, you know, I think across the board, we're going to have to be really savvy and efficient with our dollars. And you know, well, and part of the process is, you know, you're on Ways and Means, I'm on ways and means is, you have people that come and testify to talk about, here's stuff that's important. And I know people sometimes think it's only healthcare. Air, it's only roads, it's only those type of things. But that is part of healthcare, that's part of environmental that's part of fun. Living is what you can do outside. You know, we don't want to spend all of our time inside, and there needs to be things that you can do outside to enjoy life here as a Hoosier, yeah. So that's part of I know that that we had some people that talked about good outdoor living as part of the budget and making that in, so hopefully we can get it in. I think you pointed out something that in conversation with the governor has commented that there's some things that are at the start point, and then let's see where we go. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What other environmental things are you working on? Oh, well, since you asked, for the last five years, I've had a conversation about it's been in the form of a bill for five years to create a committee on climate resilience and economic growth. And it kind of harkens back some of the genesis of it harkens back to my experience working with industry in Indiana, so big manufacturing state, the economy is changing rapidly, decarbonizing, which creates new business opportunities. And also so there's this economic opportunity bucket around how our economy works and make sure we're grabbing these these changes in the economy and making leveraging them for our benefit as a state. And then there's the risk of not being prepared for the changing climate. Climate scientists out of Purdue and elsewhere tell us that Indiana is relatively compared to, say, the coasts, with storm challenges and fires, et cetera, relatively immune to major climate impact. But we still do have threats to the ag sector from times of more intense heat and dryness and then more intense rain. That's not helpful, like the imbalance to the ag sector risk to our communities for major flood events. So we have to be, you know, I think it's incumbent upon us to be focused on resilient communities. So I've had this bill, and I will say one good thing that came out of the original iteration of nine Bill was a focus on the auto sector. So the next year, after my first iteration, working with United Auto Workers, in particular, I worked with my colleague Mike, our colleague, Mike karakoff from Kokomo auto town, to create the electric vehicle product commission. And the work of that commission, we're now three years in, is all about making sure Indiana is prepared to for our auto sector to evolve and be part of as we've moved from just internal combustion and engine manufacturing to also be building EVs in our state, and that the work of that commission, which has gone out to the auto industry for the last three years in the form of an annual report, has told the industry, Hello, we are open for business. We're going to make sure our workforce is prepared, our existing manufacturing base is supported, to pivot as needed, and that we can do all of the above when it comes to auto manufacturing. We have 100,000 good auto manufacturing jobs in our state. Let's maintain them. Let's grow them, if we can, and keep that strong part of our economy strong, right? Talking about automobiles, nice segue here. Carrie, good job. Road funding. We had representative James Earl Jones pressle on the show. They sound so much alike. Had them on that. Had them on the show. We talked about, kind of the kickoff to that, that work. You all are both involved in that. I decided you didn't want to hang out with us anymore. I was like, if I have to be with Earl anymore, I will not survive it. So what's, what's the update? Where are things at? So yeah, so Earl is the ranking member on our committee, and so provides our leadership in that way, and I'm the sole member now from Marin County. Thank you, Blake. I have to point out, I just wanted to give you a chance to shine. I have to point out it was interesting that previous to this year, there, I was the Northwest Indiana guy, and it was three Indianapolis people on the committee. Yeah, major shifts. We've shift shifted. Yeah, Indianapolis is all yours to take you Yeah, and it's a big challenge. So we're having this statewide road funding conversation, right? And we're having the the incredibly big challenge of Marin County in particular, because Marion County has been underserved by the road funding, the state road funding formula, for decades, certainly, if not longer. So how do we both solve the statewide problem, or start to solve it and start to improve things for Marin County, where I just, you know, Blake knows this as much as I do, and you've heard enough of it now as we've had these specific Marin County conversations, but we are putting a whole lot of money into the state road funding formula and getting very little back, just to keep it real simple, and we've got to start to change that story in strategic ways. Of course, our colleagues, who are in the majority and the super majority, mostly represent those areas that are enjoying our money. Yeah. Yeah, and, and it's not going to be as easy as just make it fair. Okay, you know that's not how the conversation is going to go. So we're trying real hard to find some real opportunities. And Representative Press all Jim, who you had on the on this just a couple weeks ago, is having really thoughtful conversations about that, and I appreciate his leadership. A bill is moving. It's being adjusted. You guys are in conversations, and we're just and it's, it's a lot. So the process, yeah, the bill is in committee. We are, as of the recording of this Monday, we will be back working on the funding bill. We'll be talking about amendments, working on getting a hopefully good version of it passed out of committee to then go to the House floor, yeah? So a lot of stuff going on, and as representative Hamilton said some things in terms of Indianapolis, we know we need to make sure that those are done correctly, yeah. And then we're also looking at, I'm going to bring this up, because it's not only where I am in Northwest Indiana, but here the T word has come tolling, yeah. So we'll see how that plays out. Tomato, turmeric, I'm trying to reduce my spoiling teaspoon. All right, I do. I do want to touch on one bill from this week, because it did get some attention and some time on the floor, and it was a bill around immigration, and there's obviously been lots of conversation about immigration reform. So about immigration reform, and notably and important for us to be having a conversation, right? I think that there is, there is an issue there. There is issues of crime and whatnot that we we should consider how to address. However, I think where this bill kind of falls apart is that, I think it's been our position is that this is the federal government's responsibility, and so the bill this week essentially deputizes law enforcement agencies, local law enforcement agencies, to have a role with ice in terms of reporting suspected undocumented immigrants to that agency. Falls apart a little bit on what probable cause is there and some other things, I guess I would just, you know, asked for some reflections. I mean, it was a it was a big deal this week. I obviously spoke on the floor. I think you spoke as well. Just kind of, what should folks know about what happened this week? So, you know, the kind of two takeaways from the bill, in addition to what you've already shared, and that is, it's creating an extra regulatory burden for our local police forces across the state, right? And they're already working really, really hard, doing so much for our communities to help keep them safe. And then you add this whole like hurdle process, we know that our local public safety community already has relationships with ice and federal agencies around immigration and processes to, you know, make sure our communities stay safe. This regulatory burden is just that they don't that's not helpful to the process. It's not actually giving them more tools to do their jobs well, and it's definitely not giving any funding to help them. No funding, absolutely. But it's, it's a signal bill, and what that signal means to me is, you know, we were there. There's a whole lot happening at the federal level right now, obviously, but we're kind of adding this extra layer of fear to our communities. I mean, I've now heard stories in my community and many communities across the state of kids not going to school. That's not good for Indiana, right? Parents not going to work. I mean, these and so adding to the kind of fever pitch without any real value, which there is no value in this bill to keep our community safer. Nothing in the bill does that. I It's frustrating. And I asked, I asked the author on the floor even just about the chilling effect, right? So, you know, one of the things we know happens with bills like this that are not designed to do anything, but designed to look like they're doing something, is that it sends a signal to communities that law enforcement is trying to build bridges to. Right now, right? Immigrant community is growing rapidly, yes, and so law enforcement is trying to build these bridges so they have collaboration about solving crimes. And what we're doing with this bill is saying to documented and undocumented folks is that you can't trust law enforcement, right? Because their job is now to do the federal government's responsibilities. And I think it will stop folks from calling in when they witness a crime. It'll stop folks from collaborating when they're a victim of a crime. And that the question I asked was, imagine you've got someone who's being human trafficked or is in a domestic violence situation, and they are afraid because of their status to now reach out to law enforcement, and their assailant continues to go around and do the things that they do. Is that an acceptable outcome of a policy like this? So, yeah, I think this isn't, you know, this isn't a lefty argument, right? We're talking about local government control funding our law enforcement officers who are, I think, as Victoria said on the floor, who are catching stray dogs and showing up to our schools and have to do work there, and they're responsible for everything and anything. And now we're saying you've got one more responsibility, but no money or training, or some training, but no money to actually cover the cost to do those things. Yeah, yeah. And we have legislation we're putting in to try to make their life easier. And then, as you said, we don't have something like this, and you tapped on something that I talk about. So as someone who's half Latino and has a lot of Mexican family members, you're correct. The fear is there, even if you're born here, generations of being born here and you're Latino, because that's really who this is aimed at, let's be real. There is fear of you getting pulled over, you getting discussed and if you you know, not everyone I do this, but not everyone carries around their driver's license as an example. So if you're walking around and don't have proof, what does that mean for you? I've had conversation, I said conversation with a friend who talked about another friend whom she walks around now with papers to show documentation that she is an American citizen, and so it's adding a lot of fear and those relationships, as you talked about it's going to make it not so safe for all of us, really, in the long run of this, well, we've got to find a way. I mean, we're coming off of an election, you're right, and this was obviously a fire starter sort of topic that you know, that you can argue how we handled it as a party probably wasn't where we needed to be, but at the end of the day, I think we've got to find a way to stop like just parroting the furthest talking points on both sides, and find a way to talk about these issues in a smart, thoughtful way that recognizes, you know, what violent criminals on the streets, like, should be dealt with, right? And if you have an undocumented person who's committing violent crime, like, we should absolutely address that no argument. Like, we are not arguing for anything other than, let's actually just be smart about it and not drain resources from local communities that are already starved and find a way to solve problems. Not talk about how we think we're gonna solve problems. It's very it's all we're really trying to get at correct. Let's do again, what's best for the citizens of the state? Yeah, yeah. Well, we're almost out of time, I suspect, I think so, but time check, Jacob, Jacob, where are we at? Are we 30 minutes? Oh, yeah. So one more question. All right, so I actually do have one more question for you. I want to go back to the fact that you are top three leadership. We, as Democrats, are the super minority we are, but you get some things done. So how do you being in being a Democrat in Indiana on the downside of super minority? How do you be effective? And what lesson do you have for the rest of us? Oh, you know, I, several of our members, have bills moving right now, I know you have one, right? Two, two. I mean, that's great. It's not a show. We brag. He's still mad about that lemonade stand. It was on sale. Oh gosh, regretting saying yes, not at all. It is actually quite entertaining to be with you both here, but yeah, you kind of are to answer your question. Well, I'm going to just give an example. So right now, the bill that I'm moving knock on with it will hopefully continue to move is, you know, came from a meeting in the community. Recycle force is an organization here in Indianapolis. It's called an employment social enterprise. There are a handful of these across the state. Recycle force is the most impactful to date, the largest, longest serving. What they do is employ ex offenders and Employment social enterprises can also serve veterans who are struggling or other communities, maybe folks who are coming out of an addictive situation and trying to get back into society. Recycle force serves ex fenders and provides job training opportunities with really a strong wrap around of services to make sure they can navigate that post incarceration world where there's a lot of stuff to turn in and bank accounts to set up, and housing to secure and transportation and all of these things, along with like high quality job skills and workforce training, these organizations are eligible for federal dollars, and in Indiana today, we're not securing as many of those dollars as we could. So the legislation codifies the federal definition of employment social enterprises in state code. This is a relatively minor bill, small bill, if you will. It's two pages. There's no deletions. It's simple language, but it will allow Indiana, will make it easier for these organizations to thrive in our state. So it's a workforce bill, it's, you know, it's a reduced recidivism improve public safety bill, but it's pretty simple, and I have bipartisan support, and I think the bills that are moving have those characteristics. So we don't necessarily make as much progress as we would like, although we do on the budget, but we do impact the budget in positive ways, but we can get really important public policies through along the way that that are common sense and that just happen to come from us, unless you're carrying your walking to work, your commutes. Probably. Over, so we probably have to call it from there. Thanks for tuning in, Carrie, Madam Chairwoman, thank you for hanging out with us this morning, and thanks to all of you, as always, for continuing to listen to us, inexplicably, I might add, but thanks for being a part of the show. Obviously, subscribe, leave us a comment. Rate the stars. Do all the things you do on a podcast, and we'll be back with another exciting episode before you know it, you.