Dumpster Diving with Janice & Jane Podcast
Dumpster Diving with Janice & Jane Podcast
Dumpster Diving: Advice Unleashed - Take it or Leave it?
We are jumping feet first right into the fray! So often our friends and family call on us for advice and, well, why should they be on the only ones?? We want your stories, your questions, your real-time quandries!
In the meantime, we're warming up our advice-giving chops with some samples from across social platforms. First up, Reddit! Listen in as we tackle:
How far can/should brides go in their demands of their bridesmaids: In our comeback episode, we unpack this drama through a discussion highlighting the cultural and personal significance of hair for Black women.
and
Navigating workplace dynamics: How do we approach our bosses when asking for a raise AND how do we deal when they're response is completely inappropriate??
We are going to have SO much fun with this format! Don't miss out on this engaging episode, and remember to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts with us!
Got a story for us? Email us at dumpsterdivejj@gmail.com
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you're listening to dumpster diving with janice and jane man hi hi, it's been a minute well, it's been a minute.
Speaker 2:You've been here like we're, we're not going to talk about all those things. We've been here twice but we know that if we start talking about all those things like, we're going to be here forever. But so yeah we got to physically see each other twice. We didn't record a single time, didn't take a single freaking picture, because you were together. That's for a different episode, oh well well, hold on.
Speaker 1:Hey Rose, Hi Rose, my favorite listener, that's true, that's right.
Speaker 2:Hi, rose and hey, if you want us to say hi to you, just message us and we'll do it. Rose and hey, if you want us to say hi to you, just message us and we'll do it. Yeah, that's the one quick thing. So it's been a few weeks, we're back at it, we're ready to rock and roll. Uh, but in that few weeks Jane did come and she visited I. We had our summer party and she um came along with uh, one of her daughters, my nieces, um, and that weekend and the next weekend she came um with both daughters. All along the way she had a friend, but at the summer party, rose was there. And well, you guys have listened enough to have to know that rose has been on an episode with us. And, oh my god, it's like I was like okay, you can stop now, rose, because rose was fangirling on Jane so hard it's not even funny anymore. And I was like um, uh, rose, what about me? Hello, your friend.
Speaker 1:Evidently.
Speaker 2:I'm not star striking. You have the star striking quality that I don't have. That's fine. Um, so, yeah, now Jane and Rose have a little thing, but whatever I can, I can get past it. It's okay. It's okay. So, but yes, we love it, it'll grow.
Speaker 1:On you It'll grow on me.
Speaker 2:So we are like we're going to be starting uh, uh, not we're continuing our conversations but a little bit of a different um edge to it, because we have been talking forever about, like, even when we first started the plan for the podcast, right, we were like, okay, we want to get to a point where it's not just about us, but that we bring in addition to guests, right, but that when we don't have guests, that we bring other um conversations in by getting our listeners to weigh in right, to either send us in questions they have or even potentially, depending on what their question is, um coming on with us and we can just kind of have like a little session where we talk it through. And you know, because we only have five listeners, I'm pretty sure we've interviewed all of them so. So we had to figure out a bandaid. So do you want to tell everybody what our kind of in between is?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, I was doing some research and chatting with friends and stuff like that, and, um, I was told that Reddit is a really great resource. And I was like Reddit, um, I was like I've heard of it, I know a bunch of people that use it, but I'm not really sure what it is. So during one of those weekends we decided to crack open that, uh, download Reddit and, oh my land.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's set the context. I'd had a little bit of wine, you had had a puff or two of something, yeah, and then we opened the Reddit app.
Speaker 1:Neither one of us had ever been on it. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, it was um we got christened by reddit we got, maybe yes yeah, it was crazy, we were laughing and we just did the headline, we just did the headline and we were just going through and man, oh man, we had some laughs.
Speaker 2:So it made me very grateful for my average life.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie there is some shit happening in people's lives and I was like okay, um, I'm gonna go with boring is good here you know, I don't even think that we have boring lives. It's just that, you know, sometimes it's like we we don't even think to stop and ask some of these questions that's actually because we, we, we kind of know the answer already and stuff like that stuff it was like seriously, they're asking that on here, like, okay, you know, but then.
Speaker 1:but then the categories you know are great, and you know, one of my favorites is am I the asshole? You know, because they're life questions. You know, wait a minute, am I really the asshole for this or what? And then people, people comment it's amazing, um, it is amazing Life.
Speaker 2:It can be life sucking. So like literally, when we hopped on right before we started push record, we I was like we were both like I haven't. I was like I haven't touched it. But for me not touching it was because I can see how, more than any other platform I'm on, I could be sucked into it for hours reading the crazy shit that happens in people's lives. So yeah. So we're back at it.
Speaker 2:So today for the first time, right, we're going to use Reddit as the bandaid or the in-between, right. So again, we're hoping that this gets people really kind of interested in reaching out to us and sending in problems that you want us to talk about and or you want to join us with. And I don't know, this is probably this, might not, it might be aging me, but it's probably also like I don't know if this was a national thing, but I remember as a kid growing up in spotsylvania, virginia, our local newspaper, because that was a thing before.
Speaker 2:Remember newspapers was the freelance star and in the freelance star I can't remember it was every day or every week there was the freelance star and in the freelance star I can't remember it was every day or every week there was the ann landers column and that column was exactly what you think it is.
Speaker 2:It was. I don't even know where her background was. She was probably like gossip column, right like, and she people would write in and she would give them advice on all things right. So I feel like we're gonna. That's our. Our aspiration is to be like the modern day and landers in this space, especially outside of times when we have guests for other reasons, et cetera. So with that, we have to write, we picked, we went through. You guys, if we, as we kind of as this evolves, like one of the ideas, when I had had a little bit of wine and Jane had smoked a couple of things, um, we, we were like we could play reddit roulette and we just scroll and whatever we land on, well, we're not brave enough or drawn right now.
Speaker 2:So instead we've chosen a couple um, that are actually both, I'm gonna say, like there was some stuff that was such ridiculousness and there's some stuff that you kind of go, oh, oh, I get it Like that's really an issue. Yeah, so pick two of those today and we're going to talk them through and share ideas, and we're hoping that you guys are going to weigh in as well and then maybe even send us your own problem that you want help on solving. So right, all right, you want to kick us off with the one that you chose.
Speaker 1:Yeah totally, I will totally kick us off first off I'm going to say reddit roulette was my idea and it's trademarked already and nobody can take that.
Speaker 2:So completely trademarked and we will hunt you down if we find out we've got big time lawyers with our big time lawyers they're with our producers and editors over in the corner listening to everything, that we do everything.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, all right. So this is a uh, am I the asshole? Um, uh, question, love it, I really like this one. I really like this one. So I'm interested to hear what your, what your reply would be. So, um, am I the asshole? And here's the title getting boho braids as a bridesmaid?
Speaker 1:When the bride asked me not to, okay, okay, so, so that's a good one. I mean, it's like, okay, you're a friend, you know there's let's, let's read into it a little bit. So the plan is, is that the wedding's in the fall? And um, she let the bride know that she was going to have boho braids and at the time and wouldn't need to get her hair done at the wedding. But she also said that she can style them, however, and make it look great. And, um, and I know some brides like the half up or half down and blah, blah, blah. Right, so any style that she wants. Yeah, her friend responded.
Speaker 1:The bride responded asking if she could wear her hair natural instead, so everyone could be uniform. Okay, like breaking down the story, I get that too, okay, um, however, this particular bridesmaid is the only black woman and? Um, so therefore her hair is different and she is trying to explain to the bride that this would be the easiest thing. But then the bride's like she wants her hair natural, but she there's no way she's going to blend in naturally with the other women, right? So, um, end of end of thing is uh, the bride is currently not responding to her, to her text messages and phone calls, but is now talking to the other members saying that she's upset and she thinks that she's making it all, you know. The bride thinks that the bridesmaid is making it all about her, you know. And then she explains I tried to lead up blah, blah, blah. So her question is is Am I the asshole? So what are your thoughts, Janice?
Speaker 2:So so many complexities, right, and you've already pointed out a couple of them. It's very. It's a very on my mind because I've had a family wedding this year already Our daughter's getting married in September. So you know we're not immersed in that planning. They're really doing the planning themselves, but even being tangential to it, it has.
Speaker 2:It's so interesting to think about, like the dynamics, dynamics of right, as they're planning these, these, you know, a wedding and how they're thinking about it, and so there's dynamics around. In this case, when you bring um the race question into it, there's but but and not but, and that ties into like, okay, what are we really prioritizing here? Like, where are our values in terms of what's most important? So I would love to hear you talk a little bit about the part of this that has to do with an acknowledgement of because I have the type of hair I have because of who I am. This is a barrier for me, and I say that to you because you have daughters who have hair that is similar. So you're going to have a very authentic take on it in a way that I don't. And then I'll talk a little bit about the just kind of bride stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean looking at the whole thing, you know, and understanding that this is a, this is a black woman that you know the the rest of the bridal party is not necessarily white but could have, you know more, more white, textured hair or, you know, like Hispanic or Asian or whatever, Right? So, um, that's what I'm assuming, and she's obviously feeling like different. You know, in that aspect she's looking for a versatile hair hairdo, and so she came up with a solution that knows that, she knows it'll work. And the bride is pushing back, saying natural hair.
Speaker 1:But what does that mean? You know, like what, really like what does natural hair mean? Because my natural hair wouldn't look like this. You know, it would be this other color and it would be a full hair. And so are you saying that I have to completely change my look for your wedding. So my question is is how far are you asking your friends to go, and how far are you willing to go for your friends to change your, your image to match something Like? I don't understand that. Like that's, you're asking your friends to be there as a celebration for your wedding, but then you're like, hey, you have to look a certain way and you have to do this and you know and I get that that's part of the wedding. But when it comes to somebody's hair, even as a white woman, my hair is everything, you know. Like I love my hair and if I was told that I had to like diet, you know, cut it all off and diet black for this wet. That's not happening.
Speaker 2:That this wet.
Speaker 1:That's not happening. That's going a little too far. Yeah, you know. So, are you? You know, are you? I would ask the friend are you willing to pay for my hair to look natural? Right, go get a weave or wear a wig or something like that, but what I want is to have my braid. So I think it's a little much, you know, and she could compromise with that, because there's no way she's going to look exactly the same as everybody else.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's that's such a key part, Right, and I sit here and I think to myself okay, you, it's a special thing to invite somebody to be standing beside you when you get married.
Speaker 2:That's a very special thing, and and so usually it's close family or close friends, right? So this is somebody who's in your life, who you've loved and cared for as a friend for whoever, however long. The assumption I'm making is that you love them for who they are, right In the world. Would you want them to literally almost be somebody different on that incredible day? Right and again, cheers. I know it's about the uniformity and I know it's about pictures, right, right, but again like, yeah, like you're saying like, okay, but don't you also want me to be me Like, or you know like, cause, if you don't want me to be me, hire a bunch of actors to stand up there to look exactly alike and, you know, be perfect for your pictures. If that's what you want, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go hire some models and do your thing, right.
Speaker 2:Well, not models, jane, cause they would have saved the bride, yeah, but I will say, you know so this is a great example of I almost feel like like we're going so far now, for and I, you know, if there are brides out there, people who've recently gotten married, people who got married five years ago, people who just think differently, weigh in on this, right, but but I just feel like it feels like this is about the pictures and if I'm right about that, how really like, how far are we willing to go? Like, how important is it that somebody sees all your pictures on social media afterwards, or five years from now, or 15 or 20 years from now? If you have children and you're showing them an album, why is it so important that what they see is perfectly uniform? Like, how how will we ended up in this place where it's not good or it's not pretty or it's not, you know, uh, uh, attractive to us, if it's not perfectly uniform?
Speaker 1:How did?
Speaker 2:we end up there.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean there's people getting married at the courthouse, for God's sakes and everything else, and if you are blessed to have the money or the budget and everything to have a nice extravagant wedding and have all the things, well then you better be paying for that hair, right, you better be paying for that hair. That's, that's what I would say. Like you want my hair to look different, you need to pay for it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I mean it goes to like there's a bigger conversation right now again, because I've been so close to our daughter's wedding and our oldest daughter just got married a couple of years ago, so, or three or almost three years ago, now it's so and they're all like three of our daughters are all in that window of time where everybody they know is getting married. So they're being asked to be in lots of weddings. So they've been on the other end of it to the bridesmaids end of it. It's insane what we're asking of people, right? Like you know, back when I got married, the first time it was I. I picked a dress and said wear whatever you color, color you want. Now I regret it, by the way, because I thought it was going to be terrible.
Speaker 2:Now I look at those pictures and they're ugly. But I think, no matter what, 20 years later, I would look at those pictures and say they were hideous because it's a, it's a certain time, it's a certain trend, it's a certain whatever, Anyway. So, but now it's like. Now it's the dress and the shoes and it's the hair and the makeup and it's the bachelorette party that's on an airplane flying someplace to pay for because it's not good enough to go to the local, like downtown area, Like it's really insane, but along the lines of like, let me be me Right. So I was of like, let me be me Right, so I was, um, you know it, you know in a in a past kind of wedding experience as well, where, like, there was this same dynamic with the bride and again, God bless a bride. I know how stressful it is, I've done it twice, I can relate, Um, so I get how stressful it is. But so, so everybody ordered their dresses Right, Um, and with one of the bridesmaids, the dress came in and she sent a picture right, put it on, sent a picture to the bride and said hey, it's here, and the response she got back from the bride was the dress is really beautiful. I exactly so. It's like so. So if the dress is beautiful, then I'm. The problem is what you're saying. Um, so you've just insulted me, and what the hell does that mean in terms of and so this? God bless her.
Speaker 2:This particular bridesmaid was like okay, sent it back, got a different version of it Cause it was like same idea of like. Bridesmaid was like okay, sent it back, got a different version because it was like same idea of like. I think it was like you had to be in the same color scheme but you could pick a style of dress, something like that. Sent it back and got another one. And then it was oh, that's beautiful, but I couldn't get over. I was so floored by the fact that that again in this relationship, right, that in the role of bride, somebody felt like they could then essentially say to her that, and in my mind, like, if I'm the one wearing it and I feel good in it, isn't that the most important thing? And it goes back to this young woman, right, Like if she has a comfort level with her hair being a certain way and she's going to be standing in front of all these people, isn't that also important?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how they feel and everything else. And I mean I've never. We've already talked about how many times I've been married, but I've never had a real wedding 27, everybody 27 times. 27 times, I think I've been married the most out of anybody in the world.
Speaker 2:You're in the Guinness Book of World, records, in case you didn't know, I didn't know that and Ripley's.
Speaker 1:Believe it or Not, I think that's it.
Speaker 2:But your hair is shaped off and it's black, so I'm not sure how that happened, but it's a different story.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a long story Anywho, but I've never had a real wedding and so I don't know that. I've never had that experience of like the bridesmaids yeah, like that. So I don't appreciate it as much as some. However, I don't see the value in having a giant wedding. You know and I don't know. I have mixed emotions about the weddings, but I don't think that I would ever do that Like I like. That's just so, but that's me.
Speaker 1:I'm very often it's too far from what I would normally do, so it's just it's. It's surprising to me that people are saying that.
Speaker 2:So well in day to day life right no-transcript so Well and day-to-day life right. Take the wedding thing out of it. I think it again. It's this space we've entered where God forbid if the image doesn't look exactly a certain way. And, by the way, we all have a different perspective of what's beautiful or what's attractive, so it's really only your perspective of what's beautiful. And you see, it even happen like my kids will 100 attest to this that, like you know, early on, when people were in our ages got onto facebook and then we started getting onto the platforms where our kids were and some of our kids were like going into their teen years and stuff and it was like, oh my god, don't post that picture, oh my god. So we finally had to come to a consensus that, um, I'll post whatever I want on Facebook because none of their people are on it and no matter where I post, I won't tag them, because I would post and tag them and many moms I know all the moms out there are going yes exactly right, Because they're so precious
Speaker 2:in every picture. It's a similar dynamic in terms of, like, god forbid the world see me in a certain way, right? So yeah, so with this particular story, we're on the side of the bridesmaid and we're saying, listen, you got to find some compromise bride and you got to help her feel good about who she's going to be so that she can, in turn, help you feel incredible and beautiful and and be who you're going to be the way that you want to be supported, because she doesn't support it as your bridesmaid, and that's what it really comes down to is support needs support.
Speaker 2:So and I think that a lot you said this before at the bottom of this too, is just stress, right, like um, you know, you have to ask yourself would this particular bride behave the same way if it wasn't in the context of a wedding? That's incredibly stressful, there's so much that goes behind it, et cetera. So we like to think not. We like to think that this was a faux pas and maybe the reason she hasn't responded is because she's taken a breath and she's going to come back, but if not, bridesmaid, if you're listening, vote for you.
Speaker 2:Take your boho braids and show up at that wedding and just be you.
Speaker 1:Like the goddess that you are with your black girl magic and do all the things. I love it there. All right, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it period.
Speaker 2:Next paragraph. We're being really easy on people today. By the way. Next week I think we have to definitely come out of with some just whack job wackadoo as we go.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you know who we should have. Come on with us with these is JP JP.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine? And then we're just going to pick some that are going to fluster him. So much.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God yes.
Speaker 2:And he won't even turn on the camera. All right, yeah. So the second one I have in our inaugural episode of kind of Reddit roulette it's ours, we own it, it's trademarked. Yes, so this one is super interesting. It's also a little bit more on the serious kind of perspective, right? So the caption on the top is I had a weird conversation with my boss about a pay raise. She basically told me I should be ashamed for asking what do I do?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I know that's going to trigger the hell out of you. The only other context I'm going to give you this is a really, really long one. I'm not going to read all of it, but essentially she acknowledges she's been working with the company for a few years. Couple of years started right at the end of COVID, had some rocky stuff at the start but got on good footing, has been a good employee, has her confidence back. But then so she decided it was time to ask for a raise because she hadn't gotten a raise in the time that she'd been there and, you know, got like a mixed message, basically because she had to meet with like the not the boss, boss, not the owner of the company. And when she had her initial conversation it went really well. She got the sense that she was going to honor her request. She was going to go talk to the big boss, yada, yada.
Speaker 2:And then she came back a week later completely shifting and basically saying listen, some of us, when we first started working here, didn't get a raise for three years. You've only been this time. We shouldn't even be talking about a raise. You should be more interested in the company being successful and not being worried about how much you're getting paid right now. And then the woman basically says listen, she's a lousy. This woman I'm talking with is a lousy communicator. I've known that all along. But what do I do? I don't have the energy or the time right now to find a new job. How do I navigate this? So, because everything at your job is perfect and you never have any issues, you should go first, oh, responding to this. How does she? How does she respond? A, is she right to be shocked and aghast at this? And B, if you were coaching her right now, right, how would you coach her to go handle it?
Speaker 1:So my initial reaction to that is the fuck Like. I would never sit there with somebody one of my employees and have them come into my office and ask me for a raise, stuff like that, and that was my rebuttal a week later. First off, I would have a rebuttal or an answer right then and there, you know, or something to say, okay, let's, let's see what we can do, or whatever. But to come back a week later and just make her feel like she was a complete idiot for just even asking and how dare you? And you should be investing more time and more effort into the company and not worried about how much you get paid is a you know, I mean, there's there's context missing. How much is she getting paid now versus what is she asking for, you know?
Speaker 1:So there's other things. She could be totally off base and say, oh, I went in there and asked for a $20,000 raise because I am doing my job now. So, you know, maybe that's where the energy is coming from, from the boss. So I wouldn't do it that way, I wouldn't say it that way, but that could be what's going on. That's one side of the story, because, again, reddit roulette. We're only hearing one side of the story.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right and I'll get a couple other context pieces. She shares that this is a US based company. She's from Eastern Europe and she felt like when they hired her is because they felt like she was somebody they could pay less and there's a big pay gap.
Speaker 2:Oh, but she also does add a couple of things that are confusing, right Like she's like I've been with the company a year and a half and I've gotten a raise, but now I feel like it's time for another raise. I'm feeling like this is probably like a not a salary type job. I feel like it's an hourly type job Um, but she did say.
Speaker 2:I think the thing that was really powerful here is that this woman, right, this boss of her, said things to her like, um that you know you're making us feel very uncomfortable by asking us for a raise. And when she countered and said, but aren't I supposed to advocate for myself Her? The response she got was well, it might be like that in your culture, but not in our culture.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so there's more going on.
Speaker 2:It's as much about. You know, even if the answer is we can't give you a raise right now. Right, it really is more about how this woman spoke to her, some of the things that she said to her, right?
Speaker 1:Because in that's and it's totally off base, because I mean those things they don't even matter. It doesn't matter about culture, it doesn't matter about any of those things. What matters is is what is the plan of the company and what is your policy? Right, because all you need to do is fall back on that. I'm sorry, Janice. You know, or, as it turns out, janice, you've been here a year and a half and you did receive a pay increase at this time, and once you receive that initial pay increase, it's usually typically about 24 months before we get another raise. So in between then and now, you know, or now and then let's take a look at some of the things between then and now you know, or now and then let's take a look at some of the things that you're saying, you know, let's let's look at your job description versus the job that you're doing and see where there's any opportunities to, to to work on it and get that increase when that 24 month period hits.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's a professional.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly right. Okay, so I love. I love what you just shared, because you essentially provided our audience with um, if you're the boss in this situation and somebody comes and asks you for a raise, how do you respond?
Speaker 1:that was the policy. You know, this is what it is and that's what I would do is just lean on the policy, but very nicely, and not make her feel like she's doing something wrong. You're making us feel uncomfortable by you asking for a raise. What the fuck?
Speaker 2:Who says that, who says that, and the fact is this generation, and by that I mean like you know next year like they're going to ask right Like our generation next year, like they're going to ask right, like our generation. We, like I was. I was in my 40s before I was first off in a uh, a job where I could ask for a raise, because when you're a public school employee, it's all mapped out, like you said, the policy there it's all mapped out. You get a raise at a certain time. Um, and I had to, like I, I had to be coached, like I needed coaching around. How do I even have this conversation? So I get her angst around having the conversation and she strikes me as much younger, but who knows? And so, but this generation is going to ask very much more easily than we would have or could have, right?
Speaker 2:So the second piece is if you're the boss in this situation and you don't have a policy to fall back on, then own that right.
Speaker 2:Listen, I appreciate you coming to me, I appreciate you putting on the table where your interests lie and what you feel like is going to be important for you in your next careers. You know steps here with us and you're making us realize that we should have this mapped out in our HR policy and we don't. So we're going to take some time to do that and we're going to take X amount of time. Let's meet again on this date and however much time, and come back and have this conversation about what that looks like. And because I do think this is an important piece, because you're asking for you, which is really important You've brought to light the fact that we're not prepared to have these conversations at all, and so we need to think about it across the company so that we can think about a way to be equitable, et cetera, right Period. So that's a way to respond. If you don't have a policy, if you're a startup, you're a small business and you've never really thought about it.
Speaker 1:Right, that's a way to respond, they need a raise and you can just really professional no, that's the whole point is like delivery and and what you're saying can mean so many different things and for bringing up culture and your country versus our country or whatever the case like that is just crazy to me and that tells me that the culture in the office is very is's a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a problem. So I see where she's coming from, just based off of what she's telling us. But also, like I said, you know she could be somebody that's eager and that thinks that now that they are doing the job fully, they need a, they need a raise. Um, I've had plenty of conversations with people like that, where it's like, okay, well, you know you, yes, you're doing better there. Let's take a look at where the other opportunities are and and then build on that. But let's give you a timeframe and some goals, you know, and that's where you can pacify the need for it and they're actually working for it. So now they are going to be, um, motivated to continue to do their job and do it well and then expect that raise. But then also, then you dangle another carrot, you know, like that's how it works. But if you don't have even that plan in place, of course you're going to have people coming to you after a year and a half going, hey, I want to raise. Yeah, exactly, that's you know, that's, that's the boss's fault, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well. So the flip side, then, right, is how does she respond? And so one thing I have in my head is right now, like where this post left. It is that they're in this awkward space where she said all those all new job, which she says yeah, so one way, that one way that I might recommend to her to respond and you actually just said it I'm going to turn it into her angle and then I know you've probably got another beautiful way for her to respond, and that is to come back to them, either in writing or verbally. Right. To come back to them either in writing or verbally, right, and she might want to put it in writing in an email if it's uncomfortable because of the way she was talked to by her boss before, but is to come back and say I've been reflecting on our conversation of a week ago, two weeks ago, a month ago, however long it's been and the reasons that you stated that talking about a raise at this time isn't appropriate. She has two choices she can address how she was spoken to, right, and she can say I was concerned about some of the things that you said, and in future conversations I'm going to ask you to not put me in that position Right Of feeling ashamed, right, maybe even saying that, but in terms of moving forward, assuming she's not going to quit and go find a new job right now.
Speaker 2:So for now, I am going to be working on the set her own goals. I'm going to be working on the following goals and I plan to come back to you all at this time, three months from now, six months from now, to re, you know, to reenter the conversation and hopes that by then you all will have given more thought to how we would proceed. Right, like something like that where she acknowledges how they made her feel but also then takes the reins and says listen, here's what I'm going to work on and here's what you'd expect me to come back. So they don't think that she's just never going to bring it up again, right, because they just never talk about it.
Speaker 1:All right, what would you recommend? So I'm right along the same lines. However, I would change it up just a little bit. Instead of saying, okay, these are the things I'm going to work on, you know they they did stay say that you should be investing your time on making sure that the company is successful.
Speaker 1:So if that's what I need to be focusing my time on, that's what you so then therefore, at a certain timeframe, then I can talk to you again about an increase and stuff like that, and by that time you'll have, you know, you'll, you guys will have a plan or whatever she needs to say. But that's what I would say is like help me, help you tell me what you'd like me to focus on, because I'm not, you know, I wouldn't say this to her, but like I'm not a mind reader, but we're not mind readers, yeah, but if you don't ask, you don't know. And what you don't know, and so that's what I would say for her, is like you know, just take this as an opportunity to grow and and and take control of the situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And go to them and say, look I'm, I want to be here, I want to be here, I want to get a raise, I want to do all those things. So please help me, help you, and let's be successful together.
Speaker 2:Well, and what it reminds me of is like I love kind of how you framed that. And again, if you're deciding that you're going to stay there, um, you know, remind yourself that we learn as much about leadership from people who do it poorly as we do from people who do it well and take this as a learning opportunity. And it's, it's triggering for me, like a leader that I worked with a million years ago at a school that I worked with in in Virginia, a private school, and I just remember the thing I remember most about her. I can't even remember her face, but I remember her leadership because I remember the running joke among those of us who worked for her was well, is it a red light day or a green light day for her?
Speaker 2:Because if it was, a red light day, stay the fuck away from her because she was hell on wheels. But if it was a green light day, you could get pretty much anything you wanted. But we never knew what it would be, right, we never knew who was showing up that day, and so it created so much turmoil for us and so much stress and anxiety. But I learned a lot from that, right, and I'm thinking yeah, learn like don't, and even our listeners, right, like, if you're a person in a leadership role and you're listening to this, a great takeaway is think about how you talk to people and decide whether or not you would be okay with anybody saying those things to you, because if not, that's your rule of thumb. Right, you should not be saying to anyone else I don't care what titles are something that you would not tolerate, or you would not be okay with somebody saying to you, right, that's a very simple, easy rule of thumb.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. I agree with that a hundred percent. So yeah, well, this was fun.
Speaker 2:Fun, fun. I think, um, I think that next time we should um, I'm a little scared of it, but I feel like next time we should we I think we definitely should focus on, um, the kind of crazy ones, right, right, um, and maybe we do one kind of like these today and one crazy one, we'll figure it out but that one, it's definitely got to be a roulette. It's got to definitely be like a quick scroll and see what we land on, and then we're just talking about it, no matter what it is.
Speaker 1:Well, here's one that I just love.
Speaker 2:Oh, let's do it.
Speaker 1:For inviting a deaf woman out to a movie with open captions. I recently asked a deaf woman if she'd like to go see a movie together. I've been wanting to see this new Deadpool and found a rare moment where I had both free time and a bit of money and desire to go out. I also found Deadpool was playing in a semi-closed theater with open captions. I can't even find a theater that doesn't that does open captions all nearby. Oh my gosh, she mentioned anyways, but that was funny, I you know sometimes, like you said, it's like just the caption.
Speaker 2:It's hilarious, oh my God, which, I guess, is the point. So so, you guys, again, this is us working through, kind of where we want this time that we spend together with you guys to go and how we want to frame it. And you've heard hopefully, if you've listened so much from us in terms of the kinds of experiences we've had in life that frame where we're coming from, in our perspectives, and we just want to bring that to you in a way that's going to be of value to you, right? So in the posting that you see about this, the podcast description, it's going to have our email um, reach out, right, if you want us to talk about a problem that you're trying to solve, genuinely, right, um?
Speaker 2:then let's do it, and it can be either. We talk about it, you can come on if you're brave enough to come on with us. Like it'll be so fun. And there's no doubt in my mind. People are listening to these two stories and going, oh my god, am I that bride? Oh my god. That's exactly doubt in my mind. People are listening to these two stories and going, oh my God, am I that bride?
Speaker 2:Oh my God that's exactly what, oh my gosh, you know I'm having this issue at work and so, yeah, we're excited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fun. I like it All right. Well, what are you doing this weekend?
Speaker 2:I am finally at home. I'm home. We're going to get together with some friends and work on some organization projects and I'm going to be working like, honestly, I am. I'm drowning right now.
Speaker 2:It's so much, which is a great problem to have, but there's just so much. So I'm so glad that we squeezed this in today because I don't want to lose sight of this. In fact, I was having a conversation earlier with somebody, actually somebody that JP introduced me to, because when I interviewed JP for my LinkedIn series if you've never gone and watched that, go watch my LinkedIn series when I interviewed him for that, he was like you have to meet Will. And I was like, okay, jp said I should meet him. So, just like you, I follow your lead, I'm not stupid. So I met him and he's a young guy. Um that they crossed paths.
Speaker 2:We had a cool conversation, but part of it was like, um, you know, kind of he's 23, he's literally just starting on a career path, right. So it was kind of some of that career stuff and all of that, but, um, but you know, one of the things I said to him is like yeah, you know, here's my job now and it's really huge and it can be overwhelming at times, but I love what I do. And I just was like so you know, if I were 23 again, I didn't know at 23 that I was going to love what I do. I knew I loved what I did, but I didn't know how far it was going to take me. But I said, you know, even at that age, don't settle for. Oh, I'm young, I can, just you know, I'm young, I can, just you know, I just need to.
Speaker 2:What's the what's the expression? I just need to pay my dues. And don't get me wrong there's a level of paying your dues. But there's no reason you shouldn't be paying your dues doing something you love. And obviously, if you're loving it, you don't actually feel like you're paying your dues. So how about you? What are you guys up to?
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, we're just, I have work you know um, um and then uh to saturday um, I got invited to go like to a little music festival, so I'm going to do that for a couple of years, have some grown-up time and, uh, do that. But then, other than that, that's really it. Hang out the house. Hang out at the house.
Speaker 2:We haven't been here really, so same like july was crazy and, um, you know, I, I think, was it last week, I think that my friend Jen, who you met, left, and I, you know, for like three or four days. It was just like you know, just like trying to kind of regroup, um, and then get some shit. There's so much stuff to do around the house too, to organize and stuff, so yeah, all good man Looking forward to it.
Speaker 2:All right, sister, thanks for the time. Yes, thank you. Thanks everybody listening. Like, subscribe, share, do all the things you know what? Yeah, you better. All right bye.
