Dumpster Diving with Janice & Jane Podcast
Dumpster Diving with Janice & Jane Podcast
Dumpster Diving into Parenting Adults & Ruby Franke!
Catch up with Janice & Jane while we explore how relationships evolve when parenting adult children and the challenges of finding the right balance between offering guidance and respecting independence.
• Setting boundaries when visiting adult children's homes or around grandchildren
• Leading with curiosity instead of instruction when adult children make different choices
• Effective mantras that guide parenting at any stage like "don't put it down, put it away"
• The cautionary tale of Ruby Franke and how social media fame can corrupt family dynamics
• Importance of having trusted people who will check your blind spots and speak hard truths
• How focus on external validation can lead to dangerous parenting decisions
• Finding balance between documenting childhood moments and respecting children's privacy
As always, we'd love your thoughts! Email us at dumpsterdivejandj@gmail.com!
Be sure to catch us on YouTube - that's where we are focusing our time these days!
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY
These Terms and Conditions apply to your use of Dumpster Diving with Janice and Jane Podcast. Your use of the Podcast is governed by these Terms and Conditions. If you do not agree with these Terms and Conditions, please do not access the Podcast.
See FULL Terms and Conditions Here.
okay, you're listening to dumpster diving with janice and jane. We're here, we're ready. We're here, ready to rock and roll it's been ready to rock yes, we're ready to rock.
Speaker 1:Springtime's finally coming. We're getting the rain, I know, I know, I know talking about that as we are coming on to you know, do our sign on and hit record that it's. It was like 80 degrees, I know, I know, I know temperature I'm like 58 degrees, oh my lanta. So yeah. So now the rain. It rained yesterday a little bit in the morning, but then stopped, and then I realized the rain's coming like right meow, um. So I might have to run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's coming from here. We've been, we've had it for the last couple days. Last week I was gone, I was in north carolina and, according to the fam here, same, and I'm sure our listeners are loving listening to our weather report and feeling great sympathy for us, those of us who live in Southern California and usually have gorgeous weather and have our few days of rain and you know, should be pitied greatly.
Speaker 1:So just making sure we don't get um like condolence cards. I'm going to be really upset.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you. That's all I'm asking for. All I'm asking for be really upset.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you. That's all I'm asking for. All I'm asking for Just a couple of comments about how we're going to be all right.
Speaker 2:That's all I'm asking, exactly, exactly. So it's good to see you, though, because I haven't seen you since before I left for North Carolina. Now I'm home, then I'm on the road again. It's crazy. The next two months are just insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I had a really cool call today with a networking group that I'm a part of, the harvest collective in California out here I don't know if it's beyond different States, but I invited you to a little thing that we're doing on the 26th of April. It's going to be up here by me, but if you can't make it, you can't make it. But it's going to be up here by me, but if you can't make it, you can't make it. But, um, it's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be sunset, um, uh, was it sunset? And something whatever. We're going to be hanging out having some cocktails. We're going to be bringing charcuterie boards. So you know, watch out we're. We're getting all fancy, um, but yeah, we're. We're going to ask a couple of questions to the collective of the people that are coming and then we're going to be able to kind of like, do like a little two hour meet and greet and and see your skills and talk about it and all that fun stuff.
Speaker 2:So that's so cool, love that those communities are so awesome. Um, so yeah, I'll check the calendar and see if I can make it, cause that would be awesome, and last time we did it was a different group last time, right, and we met kind of in the middle because it was in LA, right, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was in like Santa Monica where we met. But yeah, and that group I mean that's just the LA group and they have about 200 and something people in that group and they're wanting to expand out into the Valley and all those different places. That group and they're wanting to expand out into the Valley and all those different places, but this, this one too, I mean there's like 500 and something members, I think. So yeah, very cool. So they do different things all the time. They do things online.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty cool little situation and I got to be in on the planning party for the one thing. Like they're like you want to be part of the planning part? I'm like, yes, so of course fun, and we all have a way to kind of you know, share our love and light and go from there.
Speaker 2:So it'll be fun and our skills Amazing. That's awesome. Yeah, love it, love it. So let's talk about I'm curious about the well. I'm curious about a lot of things, but how are the girls doing the well I'm curious about?
Speaker 1:a lot of things. But how are the girls doing? They're good, they're good. Yeah, the girls are good. They're going to school. Chase is going to work. I helped Jenny with her resume her first resume the other night and helped by typed it up for her and let her read it. And um, because this girl can procrastinate. I thought like I've never really called myself a procrastinator, but I do procrastinate. I thought like I've never really called myself a procrastinator, but I do procrastinate on some things. But this girl is like she'll straight up go. I was being lazy and I didn't do it. Yeah, okay, I love that. I can't argue with that. Okay, so where did being lazy get you?
Speaker 1:nowhere you know, and so, finally, and and she will put off things that give her anxiety or make her nervous before whatever, we all do that shit, right oh?
Speaker 2:I was going to say we all do that.
Speaker 1:Saturday blah, blah, blah. So finally I was just like, look, you've said you've been wanting to do it. You thought we talked to the lady. Even I went down all the things you have to get it done and I understand that you've never done it before. So what if we spun it around? Instead of you starting it, how about I start it and then you make the adjustments? And she was like actually, that would like yeah, okay, and I'm like perfect, and so volunteer I mean it was all volunteer experience and you know and and where she's gone to the humane society and and a couple other places my old work, stuff like that, so nothing crazy, but we were able to put her skills on there and everything else. So she was pretty happy with it. She's like no, it's good. I'm like okay, great, go email it. So yeah, you got it.
Speaker 2:So it's funny how that stuff never leaves us Right, that whole like. Like you said, sometimes we just need somebody to help make us. You know. Take the first step.
Speaker 1:And then we're like, oh, I'm good, yeah, recognize that we don't know how to take the first step and go recognize that. Do you want help? Do you literally I'll sit here with you, you know, or whatever, like stop overthinking it and just get it to get it to start. But I mean it was literally she didn't even start the document and I'm like girl and it was that bad. So I'm like, let me help you push through some of this, and so, um, and so she was happy and you know, and and with the outcome and stuff like that. So now they're doing good and Chase is doing her thing, and school and work and friends and all this stuff, and, and me I'm just, you know, taking one day at a time, I am taking care of the tasks that I need to take care of and working on things that are going to move me towards my, um, the future self that I want to be, and and then relaxing.
Speaker 1:I'm really really taking this time to take care of myself, heal my body, overthink the things I need to overthink, journal the things that I overthink, you know, spending time with friends and and with like energies and stuff like that, and doing this kind of stuff is what it's all about, you know, and everything else is on hold and you know I'm I'm doing what I can. So, but what I've been, you know, called to, and all the signs and messages and all the things that I get every day, I've just been pushing towards doing what I do best and that's this. And so I, you know, did some thinking and soul searching and I was like you know what I think? I think what I need to do is focus another way around, instead of who can come to me, who can I go to, and so that's what I'm going to just change it up and and start pushing it out there and see who's going to see me.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:And and want to work with me and stuff like that so I love that I'm going out, you know, and, and I have faith and and believe truly in myself and my and my abilities and it's gonna work and, um, very quickly, I'll be doing all the work that I've been wanting to do for a very long time that's right, I am my turn on my terms and everything else, and I'm excited for it.
Speaker 1:So I'm just waiting for all of those doors to you know. Know, I'm working towards opening those doors, I should say, and that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:What can I do? I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it. Well, and I love that and I really appreciate him for our listeners. Jane has been really gracious about committing some time to YouTube and you know I think we shared with everybody last time that we're going to focus more of our energy on just, you know, getting the recordings done, getting them up on our regular platforms, but also then putting them on YouTube and any additional things that we do in terms of short form video. That kind of stuff is going to be there, um, which works great for me because I'm in what I think week three, or going on week four, of no social media and really just kind of releasing all of that for now, and so so thank you for that, and folks can look forward to going back and seeing, you know, the origin stories and all the great stuff that we did in our first 50 episodes as we continue to add to it.
Speaker 2:I am fresh off a week in North Carolina with the oldest daughter and her fam and the youngest granddaughter, and it was a whirlwind of like unpacking right, because they literally just moved their lives from Orlando to North Carolina, and it had me thinking about two things for our conversation today. One is yet another mantra right, you and I landed on some, shared some mantras last time that are a part of who we are and what we do, and I'll tell you a quick story about that one. And then, secondly, just generally speaking, and we've kind of touched on a little bit, but how parenting shifts. When you're parenting adult kids right, because that, you know, for us, really, our youngest is going to be 18, right? So so that's going to be what we do now, moving forward and and especially, even, like you know, being with them for a week and really recognizing, like having to kind of reframe who you are. Right, because it's like you're parenting the kid but you're not parenting the grandkid.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, you're grandparenting, the grandkid, and that's different, which isn't to say like it's a free for all and my grandkids do whatever they want. That's not the grandparent that I am, but it is to say that I don't make the decisions around them, right, like it's it's that that's what their parents do, so it's, it's really it's kind of been just such a fascinating time right For me, and when I get to spend big chunks of time like that with them, you know, kind of totally absorbed in their family units, that's, yeah, it really brings it all back to the surface. So, but let's start with the mantras. So you and I both shared some mantras last time and I don't know if you remember this, but let's start with the mantras. So, um, you and I both shared some mantras last time and I don't know if you remember this, but one of the ones that you shared was, um, the idea of don't put it down, put it away. And I remember saying to you like, oh, my God, yes, like that's absolutely a way that I live without even having those words. So I shared it because my oldest daughter and if she ever listens to this episode she would a hundred percent agree Um, you know, she and her husband aren't the most organized people and their house tends to be, you know, a little chaotic in terms of stuff everywhere and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So the fun thing for them is that they really are trying to make a shift from that, moving from one place to the other and like fresh start. You know lots more space, organization, space, storage, space, et cetera, and um and so early on in the week, right, like because I live that way, she, she jokes with me all the time about like, how do you like, how do you keep it all in your brain and how do you stay so organized? And blah, blah, blah. But like, literally like we're unpacking stuff, putting stuff away, getting it organized and then, like her husband would like eat and then leave the dish on the counter or leave the dish. You know that little stuff like that which is not. I'm not suggesting that's the end of the world, but I do know that like it's a pattern of behavior and if you leave one, you're all of them, right.
Speaker 2:So I shared your mantra. I was like, okay, I'm going to share a mantra here. It is Don't put it down, put it away, right. Like wherever it needs to go, yeah, and by the end of the week, that's exactly what he was doing. By the end of the week it's like he would go to put and then he'd be like, oh wait, and he would just put it in the dishwasher.
Speaker 2:And I was like, yeah, yeah, we're learning, yeah, entrees, work, and the one that I have that ties to that. Then it's very similar, um, but it's. It's basically like, you know, touch things as few times as possible, right. It's like efficiency, right. That's not that doesn't roll off the tongue easily, but it's this idea that, like, whether I'm working on something, whether I'm doing something in the house, whatever it is, that again it ties to the whole don't put it down, put it away, thing, right, because it's the same idea of like don't put it someplace that it doesn't belong, and then you're just going to have to move it again, right. Or even if I'm working on a project, like if I can keep doing this one thing I'm doing until the end, it's more efficient than if I pause it to go do this thing and then I gosh. Touch it as little, touch it as few times as possible and don't take that inappropriately, which I know some of our listeners will too.
Speaker 1:Right, Well, it just brings me to a little topic I was writing about, which is focus and being able to just focus on the task at hand, but not only that, but, you know, be able to do it with the world spinning around you. You know, and and I've paid attention to a lot of that in myself in the last couple of weeks, and so I was just writing, writing down a little bit of like antics about it, because I'm just like you know, focus is such an objective word. You really think about it.
Speaker 2:Seriously no, that's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, I love that so much. And you know that ties into, like I said, the just really thinking a lot these days about parenting adult children and how we can support other people in that, right, because you, you know, you have kids who are older, twenties almost. I've got, you know, a couple of kids who are in their early thirties and then all the way down to 17. And, um, and it really is just different, right, it's like you know, I was talking with um, uh, another friend yesterday and I said, you know, it's like you're, not you're. So let me sorry I'm stumbling all over, but let me talk about the grandparent thing, right?
Speaker 2:Like it's the whole like. Like I said, you know when, when you're with your grandkids and you're by yourself, the parents are gone, right, you're in charge. So it's the world according to Grammy, right, or Grammy and Papa. But when you're with them and their parents, it's different, because you, you know a she's two and a half, she wants her parents, which completely, of course, um, but also be like you're kind of following their lead, right, and she's at that age where it's like quick to tantrum, quick to, you know, be pissed off when she doesn't get what she wants, et cetera, Um, and watching how they deal with that, and in my head I'm thinking you should try this, you could try that If you did this, it would do, but you can't say it all out loud right In the moment, because you can remember how stressful it is and all the things. But even recognizing, like you know, our own way isn't the only way right. There are lots of ways to get to the same kind of, you know, good parenting spaces if you will Exactly and result.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. And so I said to the friend I was talking to yesterday. I said I find you, I said it's almost like you have to decide as a grandparent. Are you going to be the grandparent who annoys the hell out of your kids Cause you're constantly going no, you should do this. No, you should do it that way, oh, you should do this. Or are you going to be the grandparent who can keep their mouth shut and observe and then, when asked, offer right or even later right. Like I find that if I wait for the crazy to be done and over with and then we're having coffee later, right, I can say so, tell me about that. How do you feel about that? What?
Speaker 1:are you thinking?
Speaker 1:about that you know, but it's exactly and I've chosen that road. Yeah, but if I can interrupt real quick, it's exactly that in how you have those conversations, versus you know you really need to do this or you really need to do that while you're sipping coffee, because then you're exactly arsenic in the coffee and then you're never going to be able to tell them anything again. No, um no, but it's. It's all about leading with curiosity and that's like my, my, my whole mantra for really my whole life is just lead with curiosity and and seek to be understood, or seek for understanding. Then to be understood, like ask them why they're making those, those decisions, ask them what outcome are they wanting out of that? Like where do you think it's going to get you? You know, because it's not about telling them how to. It's getting them to think out loud and hear them say the things that they're doing and have them have that realization that, oh shit, I could do that a little bit better.
Speaker 1:You know, I didn't think about the long-term effects that it could have on them. I didn't think about that or effects that it could have on them. I didn't think about that or cause you don't want it to be when they're 10 and they're telling you off. And I mean, I watched this video the other day Janice and this woman this I say poor woman very loosely, because she is the creator of her own kind of situation the husband is zero help. But this little girl, who I think is 10, goes and uses her mom's card to buy new ipads and, like she didn't get the right one, so she threw it on the street and said you'll just buy me another one. Like I couldn't watch anymore. I was like, and and the dad's like, so what? Well, you know, and so and the mom's trying, but is she really?
Speaker 2:yeah, or she's trying, but this is she's yeah, she doesn't.
Speaker 1:I mean she's doing what she can right and and we're making those choices. We make those choices whether you're gonna, you know, berate your child for about how they parent their own child, or you're gonna be curious, or you're just gonna like stand away and go. You do that, that's your kid. Because I have parents, you know, I have parents like that, like they don't even know the birthdays I can't even but at the same time it's like they know they're not equipped to sit here and have an argument with me and you know and do all that Like yeah, it's not worse, so, yeah, so that's that kind of just like came up when you were saying that is like you know it's all about that delivery. When you're doing that, it is, yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think that I love that angle right, like the delivery. But I think it comes from our experience Right, and I can speak for myself in terms of both my own parenting experiences and my experience as an educator Right, because, yes, I can look and go okay. So I've said this before on this podcast that if you, from early on kids learn what no means right and no either means no or no means ask me again and you're going to get what you want right. And so I really am a big believer that even when they're this little right as toddlers A, it's okay for them to hear no. And I know that sometimes people translate the whole gentle parenting trend as never say no.
Speaker 2:I disagree with that. I don't think that's what it's saying at all, because the world has no in it, so we have to figure out how to deal with it. But this idea that when they want something, want to do something, whatever, if you're going to say no, that's fine, but you have to say it and you have to stick with it, right. And when you start to see those patterns of behavior where it's like no, and then there's a little bit of tears and like, oh well, okay, well, what if you have this instead? And basically it's the same thing and they're getting their way and you can be like, okay, harmless right now, but if you don't start to shift right now, five years from now, eight years from now, you're going to have a terror on your hands right and it's not too late.
Speaker 1:It's not a negotiation anymore. It's going to be a tantrum and throwing things and running away and doing what they want and all of those things. You have to set the standard at a very young age. I'm not saying go beat your children into submission and all this other crap. No, you just talk to them, communicate with them, explain to them why you're saying. No, you know, it's not because I don't like you and I don't want you to have this sugar or whatever. It's because I can't afford it and you really don't need it. So let's move on, you know, or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2:So sometimes there's a really good reason, like you're saying, like sometimes it's you already had a snack today and we're not going to have another one, and sometimes it's just because in this moment, right now, I can't make that happen.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:That's a sufficient answer. And so, and it's okay for you to be unhappy with it, A hundred percent Okay With you to be unhappy with it. Not okay for you to, you know, make a choice that hurts somebody else or what have you Right Like?
Speaker 1:you know kind of personal, yeah. And the other thing too is like, look, it's not personal, it doesn't matter if it was you or your brother, your sister, your uncle. The answer is no Exactly.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, speaking of that though, you mentioned the video you were watching the other day. Oh my, God, yes, you planted the seed for the ruby frank story for me, girl, did you watch it? Freaking watch the whole thing on the way to north carolina and we are going to talk about it right now let's do it, let's fucking do it oh my god, we and we told you, we opened it up for this conversation um.
Speaker 1:Last time we talked because I was like you got to watch it, so you and I said I would hear from the people that have watched it too, and let's talk about that shit.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. So that's part two of today's episode is digging into that a little bit. First and foremost, she'll never have to worry about adulting, parenting adults, because none of her children are ever going to have anything to do with her for the rest of her life, because she's ever. Yeah, she's all good on that front, um, but I there's. So there's so many things. So let me ask you the really crazy question first and out of the gate, and that is do you feel like the husband should have been responsible for any of it?
Speaker 1:no, I really tell me why I believe him. I believe him. I believe that because, if you really look at and and I I am not a Mormon I have, I'm not a Mormon. I know it's not crazy, I'm not a Mormon.
Speaker 2:You guys didn't know, I'm a Mormon. What?
Speaker 1:Well, with that mouth, I don't know if you've been in the temple lately but anyways all right, continue anyways.
Speaker 1:But I grew up or I should should say I spent a lot of time in arizona in a very mormon heavy communities. Yeah, yeah, I have a lot of mormon friends, like a lot ton of mormon friends, and my old boss like he's mormon, all the fun stuff, you know. So, um, but at the very beginning of the show, the psychiatrist that's talking about the pressure that's on the Mormon community is 100% accurate. Yeah, yeah, and so, and it's like what my ex mother-in-law, mormon, grew up in the Mormon church still Mormon and and the reason why she's in the mormon religion is because she feels well, this is the theory.
Speaker 1:This is not her feelings, so I shouldn't say this, but it's been theorized by other people that it's because she, she wants so much to see her sons again in heaven, because they've passed, you know, and so like hanging on for that, despite all the other. You know different things, different things that have happened or whatever and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, you know, like to each their own, whatever, but there is that, but there is that pressure to to be perfect, to serve others, to to continue to do all those things and blah, blah, blah, and that's what's going to get you there Right. So I feel like the way that that julie lady came into it and started playing and and manipulating the men.
Speaker 1:Jody or jody, yes, yes, holy shit, balls. Like she was a master manipulator and she, oh yeah, and and I'm sorry, my gaydar was going off the second, I saw her picture like, who like? And then you're in the Mormon church and you're doing this stuff and then you're getting a woman in bed, like who are you? Who are you? You weren't there for them in the first place. Let's be real. There was a control thing, and so I, I truly feel like that.
Speaker 1:The dad I mean he was, he was exiled from his family, so, and this happened all within a year and that, and that malnutrition and everything could happen in six months, six weeks, even how bad it is. And you could tell that those kids were tortured for a while and that dad was gone for a year. He legitimately went in that inter-police interview, had no idea what they were talking about. So do can we put oh sure, we could put some some blame on him. Why didn't you check on them? Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? He's like I was following instructions, they were so brainwashed. And then, you know, could we say ruby was brainwashed, sure, but she still did all that shit.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry I don't care, and she did a lot of it beforehand. Like I really appreciate the fact that the oldest kids narrate it, because the oldest daughter toward the end I think says that thing that's most important, which is did did introducing jody to ruby and we accelerate and make it go to a whole different level that maybe it never would have gone to. Yes, yes, but was, was there already evil there?
Speaker 1:yes, well, or that or that um or that urge to. You know that that for perfection, I have to take a quick run to the front door to let my daughter in the house Hold on.
Speaker 2:Okay. So while Jane is running to the front door to let her daughter in, I'll fill in the gap by saying that I, um, if you haven't seen the Ruby Frank story right, she's the YouTube mom who was arrested for abusing her kids Then you should go watch it. It's only three episodes, so I think it might be on Hulu, I can't remember, but, but go watch it. And the reason I asked Jane about the dad is because he too is one of the narrators. It's basically him, the two oldest children and then this other psychologist who was tangentially involved and I don't disagree with Jane at all, but it does.
Speaker 2:It's worth kind of wondering about, like, how brainwashed somebody can get that if you're a parent right in a home and your spouse basically kicks you out and says right in a home, and your spouse basically kicks you out and says you need to go fix yourself in order to be a part of the family, how, how brainwashed are you? If you like, just follow that order and you never question it, right? You don't try to take legal action to see your children, all those things. And so I'm filling the gap.
Speaker 2:I heard you, um, why you're right, so that was why I asked you that question out the gate, because, because I agree with everything you said and I do a hundred percent believe he was terribly brainwashed, but it did make me really go like, oh my gosh, like how brainwashed does somebody have to be right To to walk away from their children and not insist on being able to see them? Right? And he does. He says, like my job was to do exactly what she said so I'd be able to come back, and that's a whole different level of cause. Of course you know, you know my husband would look at that and be like, uh, screw that. You can't just tell him Right, I know.
Speaker 1:But I think that Jodi leaned on the church in that aspect and got the know, like I think she really leaned into it, saying, hey, look, you know, like I'm a mormon too and I'm gonna do this and this is what I'm doing, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, yay, and they and she empowered the women like crazy, was like feeling like some of the stuff that they showed, that she was saying I'm like huh like well, and she has her own.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you know this, but now there's like like a five part miniseries on her.
Speaker 2:Oh, so I need to watch that because they don't tell the little description of it last night and I was like, oh my God, so so we have to go watch that. But but I think the other really interesting thing took away from me. But aside from the obvious right about, like it's not, that being on social media turned her into a bad person. She was she already. She would have been beating those kids, no matter what Right there would have been a reason to beat the kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, what we talked about last week was like the intrusiveness of the videotaping and the and the be on all the time. That was something that she wanted to do but she pressed on to and pressured her parent or her family into. So even the husband was like God, why is this camera in my face? Like can we just have a moment? And then it turned into oh, jody, showing you know, like oh, now we're doing it all the time and we started getting money Right, and so the money made it easy, right.
Speaker 2:And he was happy too. Once they started getting money, he turned it into. He was like oh yeah, all the time he said yeah, we got.
Speaker 1:You know, we started getting $100,000 a month. What? Oh, yeah, turn on the camera, let's go. But you have to have some happy medium. You can't let it take over your whole world, you know, and I think that's where and that's where it starts to.
Speaker 2:It starts to go south, right Like she's. You have to wonder, right, if she had never met Jodi the therapist for people who haven't watched yet, would she have done some of the aggressive parenting stuff she did? Hard to know, right? Until they post the episode where the son the oldest son, who in the beginning of it all loved the videos, loved doing them.
Speaker 1:He was young enough. He wanted to be the center of attention.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, he just became a teenager and, like most teenagers, it's like I don't want to do that anymore. This is stupid. Yeah, my friends are seeing this Exactly and that's how she gets introduced to the therapist, because they're looking for somebody for him, because he's causing all kinds of problems.
Speaker 1:And by problems.
Speaker 2:I mean saying please don't videotape me, right.
Speaker 1:And that was the thing. I thought he was out drinking and being crazy. Oh, I know, literally he wasn't taking out the trash, exactly. I'm like the fuck and you're berating him. And here's the thing that bothered me the most you all like she was reprimanding her children on YouTube. Like how is that even? How is that one even allowed? Like there has to be some type of like. Some of the stuff that let me just say this, some of the stuff that Jenny watches, I'm like yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, but I trust my daughter and I know my daughter and it's pure entertainment for her. But some of these people that post videos are on there all the time doing lives. They need help, they need mental help. Like this is like their outlet and it's scary because I feel bad for them, because I don't think that they realize what they bring in with all of that, you know, and so when you're doing that with your kids, I mean I just think about my daughters. Like they don't even want me taking pictures of them, let alone posting shit, and me reprimanding them on YouTube for the world to see and your whole neighborhood. They talked about how the neighborhood was like this slice of heaven in Utah and blah, blah, blah. It's like it's just, it's just bleeding out into everything People are going to find out.
Speaker 2:You know, like well, and the whole neighbor, I mean. When you unpack it, you find out that they all thought like what yeah? Not okay. This is not okay. They all, all the other, all they ever do is post these videos or record constantly and to your point. I think it's one thing for us in a podcast forum to reflect on our parenting of our kids. It's different to be literally live taping your interactions with your kids and posting them when they have no say right.
Speaker 2:They literally have no say in what you post, right? So those were all really. So it's interesting because it does seem like it starts out kind of innocent, but it's the behind the scenes video, right, like a thousand hours of footage that was never posted, that you see where in between the and this is the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah that she's screaming and threatening and you know eventually you know beating, when Chad wouldn't, you know, concede and stuff.
Speaker 2:But I and I'll say this, I think it ties in, like you said, our last conversation, which was centered around this idea of like, sometimes the moments are meaningful because we don't post them, because we don't videotape them, because we don't take the picture Right. And, interestingly enough, fresh off that conversation, I go to North Carolina and I'm with the two and a half year old granddaughter and there was I don't even know how many times where I would go to take a picture and she would say Grammy, don't take a picture, and I would put my camera away.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:And I was like, okay, you said not to, I don't do it. And I just I asked her. I said, cause her mom and dad, like they do what most parents do, they take plenty of pictures of their kid, right, but it made me wonder, like, are we as parents taking so, like we, we we try to videotape everything, and not for posting but just for our memories, right, we're so prone to it now because it's so easy to do that at two and a half, because her, her parents, don't post anything about her, like they're those parents who, like, are afraid of predators and they don't want to you know, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I have a theory but no, but that's it. Just reiterating that, like for a two and a half year old to to say, don't you know and she wouldn't just say it to me, it was to her mom today Don't take a picture, don't take take a picture. It was like okay. And I thought to myself, okay, yes, immediately I put it like I'm going to honor that. You said that out loud. Of course I'm going to honor that. But wow, what's your theory? Why?
Speaker 1:But why is she Exactly? Why is she saying? That's my point.
Speaker 2:Explain At two and a half. It's hard to and I don't like in my mind at two and a half If she says, grammy, don't take a picture.
Speaker 1:I'm going to. It's because she's two and a half, and up until this point, every time somebody is on their phone they say I'm taking a picture, I'm taking a picture, I'm taking a picture. And they may not be taking a picture, but because they're on there a long time and they just, oh, I'm just taking a picture. It could be like that's what she thinks you're doing.
Speaker 2:Interesting idea. Yeah, that's a great theory. If you're for our listeners who are listening to this, we would love your theories right, and or your experiences, especially if you have younger kids right now that you're raising and are you getting similar kinds of things. But that's actually a very astute reflection that it could be that if we're using that and I'm not suggesting her parents are, I have no idea If we're using that as the reason we're on our phone, you know, jerking around and ignoring them right, then it's like I don't want you to to do that.
Speaker 2:Right, so that's an interesting idea, um and, but the ironic thing about it is on the flip side. She loves seeing videos of herself which is like it's so funny. Yeah, we were on the swings and so I was trying to videotape her swinging and she's like grammy, don't take a picture. And I said okay and I put it away. I was like, but now you won't have a video later to watch because it's like maybe you like, because my video of you, oh yeah, you know, yeah, my running joke is my job in her mind is to videotape her life and show her videos of herself.
Speaker 1:I love it. So, anyway, you know how, like when kids are little and we kind of just want them to go away for a second oh, it's my medicine or it's this or it's that you know like we just tell them these little innocent little white lies, but, like her mind, that's what you're doing. And so when she says don't take a picture, it's like, oh, I need to stop saying picture and just put my phone down.
Speaker 2:Well, and there's a really powerful and if I can find it easily, I'll make sure I include it in the show notes.
Speaker 2:There's a really powerful TED talk that you and I both have seen and it was the little six-year-old girl, right, and it's about like he does the TED talk and it's about the brain and connections and how and critical it is, especially from zero to like three, that when your child tries to connect with you, that you respond right, because it's literally helping form neuro neurological pathways in their brains, and when you don't, it shuts that down, right. So so the brain development thing really relies on those connections. And so she shows these great examples of like the dad, um, even like reading a book, right, and the little one comes and tugs on his leg and he just kind of says, you know, smiles at him and goes back to his book. So it's not even about being on your phone or on social media or anything like that, it's just about not responding when they try to engage with you and how critical that is at those ages. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I just, you know, I just think about us as parents and just you know, like, oh God, you know, in a two and a half year old you're exhausted, you're like I'm just taking, you know, but they hang on to that stuff. I mean, I have a funny story about that. Like my son, tyler, you know, he's has autism and ADHD, and so he was like from that, from the time he was born until probably 10 years old, he was hell on wheels.
Speaker 1:You know, just like, always getting into something, doing something, whatever he's getting into something, doing something, whatever, my joke with him was like, oh my gosh, I'm just going to get put you in a box and ship you to China, and you know, because he would just be so crazy. And so one day he's getting into the box and he's closing the lid and I'm like, what are you doing? He's like I'm going to China and I'm like, oh my God, I need to stop saying that. Like what? Oh gosh, all right, nobody's going to China around here, like, come on now. But but, yeah, but you, you, you think about those little things that we've said or whatever, and they hang on to it, you know there. So I just uh, yeah, it's it's more.
Speaker 2:I think that's a good point, and the fact of the matter is it is different now, right, Because you know, even when Montana and Sid were little, I, you know, smartphones did not exist until they were, you know, upper elementary school into middle school. And so think back to when they were little. Your kids were little. If you were taking a picture, it was with a camera, right. So you had to, like, go find the camera and have the camera ready, and um and so now it's just so quick and easy, right, which is why we take pictures. I did, by the way, take almost no pictures of food or beverages while I was in North Carolina because I wasn't posting anything amazing.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to post it. I don't need to have on your phone.
Speaker 2:I know exactly Exactly. The analytics are insane right now. Like the drop, I think. I think my screen time has dropped by like 86%, like it's really really insane.
Speaker 1:Isn't that crazy how much time you spend on social media?
Speaker 2:And you don't realize how quickly it adds up, right, and so, like now, even even the screen time, I have, like you know, same idea. If I'm waiting for something, if I'm in the car waiting for the car washer, if I'm at the dentist waiting to go in now instead of scrolling, I'm reading dentist waiting to go in now instead of scrolling, I'm reading, right, I have my kindle app open and I'm reading, and that's what I'm doing while I, while I wait. So, um, and it's why I think I haven't gone back yet, because I'm kind of like, okay, I'm using that time differently and I'm enjoying it, and so um, and, and, so yeah, and and again.
Speaker 2:Every moment that happens, that I think about oh, I could post that, oh, I should post that, and, but, but because I'm not on right now, the moment passes, then I'm fine, right, and the world isn't going to miss it. Yeah, just not reminding yourself that people aren't on the edge of their seat waiting for me to post.
Speaker 1:No, and now and now it'll be a little bit more exciting when they see stuff from you you know yeah. You know, and I'll redo a video. I have to move everything over, guys. I uploaded all the YouTube videos to the wrong page.
Speaker 2:No big deal Recon work.
Speaker 1:I'll take care of it in between today and tomorrow, but but yeah, I'm going to get them all moved over so everybody can see what the heck I'm talking about, because you know they're there. But yeah, I'm so glad you brought up the Ruby.
Speaker 2:It was insane. I'm going to watch it again. Joe really wants to watch it. I've talked about it a couple times, so we're going to watch it again together. But you know it, just lots of reflecting points there about um, about parenting, reflecting points about you know, kind of being honest with who you are, reflection points about how fast you can tip over into a space you didn't realize you were in Right. Because she genuinely, it appears she genuinely started that YouTube channel because she just wanted to fulfill the Mormon mission of putting forward the life that they had Right.
Speaker 1:And it's a slippery slope of you know, as she got more attention that that kind of was that perfect too, like this is how we do it and it's perfect, and this and that, and blah, blah, blah, that one, crack, that one. You know that they sent and they were talking to their son about taking away his bedroom and there were like wait, what you?
Speaker 1:know what do you mean, because they took it for seven months right, and so they're like you were sleeping on the floor, like what you know, and so, and, and so. You cannot portray a certain image if you don't live that image all the way through exactly you know otherwise it's just, it's a facade, and that's what it was, and it came.
Speaker 1:I mean, she treated her children very terribly, you know, and, and, and, and this other woman had a ton of influence and all these things, and so it's so people think, oh, that would never happen to me. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:It can it came crashing down right so fast it can and nobody is protected from from that kind of stuff and you have to handle it. You know you can't just ignore it, you know, and and stuff like that. So I you know, losing your focus. You lose your focus on, on what is really important and what, and what you're really here to do and what you're really and you're why.
Speaker 1:If you lose that focus, anything can happen, anything's right and you know, and that's why it's so important to um, take care of yourself and check in, and um and do the things that you need to do to be the best version of yourself. So, therefore, your, your shield, is cannot be penetrated.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think, having people around you who you are in a relationship with because you want them to be that external, right, right, right, like to be the people who would say like, what the f are you doing right now? Do you realize? You? Just, you know what I mean like.
Speaker 2:And and here's the thing, here's where I believe that she really, um, didn't think she was doing anything horrible up until the moment that, like you said, they posted that video where, where she she was, basically the parenting thing she was talking about was like, when you you take things away, you can't just take them away until they start acting better.
Speaker 2:And she had the kid, chad, sitting there and she's like, you know, because she's like, I'm pretty sure if I take something away from one of you guys, it's like six months is a minimum, right, like, that's the minimum, I'm going to keep it and you know it right, so you can immediately change your behavior, but you're still going to wait to get that thing back, because that's where you learn your lesson. And then he said well, I mean, I just got my room back two weeks ago and it was seven months, and she doesn't think like in her. She's like I don't think our listeners do that, but she. But she doesn't not post it. She really doesn't think that people are going to think that's bad. She, she really does think that people are going to think that's bad.
Speaker 1:She doesn't think it's bad Right. That's where I'm getting to, and then that's when I'll help that sense of, that sense of, you know, sensibility, you know, I don't, I mean I don't, I, I would never.
Speaker 2:one of my kids has never been grounded for over a month, you know, and that had to be pretty.
Speaker 1:Because there's no research that shows that's a good practice, right like their brains are still developing, yeah, like you know, like off of what they know and don't know, you know like exactly so mostly don't, mostly don't know and don't care right now because it's not their problem until it is their problem so exactly, you know it's just. I mean it's it's giving them that space to learn that and to be supported, supportive and stuff like that. But six months like that's a lot. What messages are you sending to your kids about punishment like?
Speaker 2:I don't know her viewers, who loved her and adored her immediately, like on a like on a switch is turned off that was it and and, and it was amazing how shocked she was by that and how devastating, oh yeah, and it made me realize like they literally built a lifestyle around the money that she was making they were making on youtube, and then it all came crashing down, but which is how it all kind of made her even more susceptible to the psychiatrist, and and the two of them together were just downright diabolical obviously.
Speaker 2:But to your point, I think that, yeah, like it's, you know, having those constant reflection points where you just check in with yourself and you have somebody around you who will be that external check with you, just to make sure, right.
Speaker 1:And that that speaks.
Speaker 2:The last piece I'll add to this is that you know, the psychiatrist has her practice and then she begins to build this whole new company that's called connections and it's about building community groups, right like groups of people, and she basically just travels around and does huge like conference style thing everybody piggybacked onto the mormon church, though.
Speaker 1:Oh no, no it is, yeah, it's totally backed onto the mormon church. So nobody else hears about this lady who's jody what? Nobody cares, yeah exactly, it's all about her yeah, which is which is so diabolical in that realm? Because she's, she's, she's bringing in stuff that they don't believe in, you know even, and stuff like that. So it's like how are you supporting that lifestyle and belief system and everything else and you're telling them this crazy shit, like somebody's going to say something eventually.
Speaker 2:Right, and yet, and yet, at least hundreds, maybe thousands, we have no idea of people signed up for this network, joined her groups, went to her things. I mean, at that point, it was who knowsish, who knows if they're still doing it.
Speaker 1:I mean, she's in jail, but she has videos out there.
Speaker 2:Who knows if people are watching that shit. They might still be doing it. But it made me realize to your point, jane, about how susceptible we are to that kind of cult-like mentality. Because they were willing to just follow her hook line and sinker. Her license had been suspended, right, and they were still paying money to go see her, right, right. So it was it just again. It just made me realize like, wow, there is something about those characteristics a person has and she had them, yeah.
Speaker 2:And people were like, tell me where the Kool-Aid is, because I'm going to drink all of it. Right, like bring it on and you know, like you said, and at first it's like, oh good, empowering women. And then you realize, oh wait, but she's suggesting that men are the devil, all of that, and anybody who experienced any lust is evil.
Speaker 1:And I was like oh, wow, yeah, and they're saying this and she's saying this to people, women specifically that are of a religion where there are no women in elders, it's all men. And so now you have this woman telling all these women that they're the devil and they're monsters and all this and they're, and they're addicts of all all things, all things addicts and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:I think I would have been like if I was there. I've been like what the fuck? You know, like who is this lady and you know like I mean.
Speaker 2:But it also made me realize we just need to start a cult. I feel like we could do it. I feel like people would follow us.
Speaker 1:We would be the funnest cult of all time.
Speaker 2:We would be the funnest cult and we wouldn't actually do anything diabolical and we wouldn't make. It would just be the cult of making you feel good about yourself. That's it. That's the cult. Make you feel good about yourself, self-love cult, cult, that's it. Like how do we?
Speaker 1:how do we? Become the tony robbins of cult right, we're the new slt, or uh, or, oh my gosh, slc, slc, salt lake city I like it.
Speaker 2:We just need to start something like that because I'm like I think people would listen to us. We just need a niche. We need like a group of people who already would like in a space that would listen to us, and then we just grow up from there, man, because I'm like, if that crazy I'm pretty sure that's what our podcast is I feel like it is. We just need more followers faster, let's get dumpster diving with the spirit.
Speaker 2:We'll just change it and everybody will come that might actually be it and we can just vaguely say the spirit. We don't have to say it's religious. If people presume that that's on them, we're never going to talk about biblical stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean, we could be a, we could be a non-profit as a church, and then we would be our own religion.
Speaker 2:And then you know, whatever happens happens then I feel like we're gonna have cool. I feel like we will become the ruby frank of this story, because the kool-aid will go to our heads, maybe, maybe maybe you'll be the ruby part of it that the therapist was possessed and moved into the. There's a red flag for the husband, by the way, when the therapist moves in. That might be where you call in the elders yeah, well, you know she moved in.
Speaker 1:Then she moved into the same bedroom, which you know I can. I mean I could spare room for somebody. But then you're in bed and you kick the husband out and you have to, like, lay next to my wife, no, no, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be a problem, that's gonna be a problem. So, anyway, all so, what are our takeaways from this episode? We we've caught up on where we are. We talked about parenting. We talked about parenting adults. We've talked. We came back to our conversation around social media and we layered on don't be a Ruby Frank.
Speaker 1:That's basically the ultimate Frankie.
Speaker 2:Frankie, frankie, and if you don't know what we mean by that, go watch the three episodes and then weigh in, because we're going to want to hear what you think.
Speaker 1:Right, the Ruby yeah, it's the newest one. I mean they've done like six different episodes on different networks and blah, blah, blah about Ruby, frankie, but this one is the very first one from the children's and the husband view, which I absolutely loved and I love that they did. I'm so proud of them for doing it because they got a lot of flack for that shit, you know like you know, especially the husband, cause the police were like what do you mean? You don't know. You know, like I felt genuinely so upset for him because how scary is that to find out that your kids have been tortured and starved and all that stuff and then to recover from that with these kids and their moms in jail now, like that's a ton of stuff. Hey, um, what's his name? What's his, the husband's name?
Speaker 1:I know all of a sudden you if you need a coach, like you know, we'll talk. I'm I'm not possessed. And I think, and I don't think that I'm the devil and um we don't know.
Speaker 2:By the way, where the younger kids are.
Speaker 1:it does not say he has maybe if you know he's okay yeah, all right, I wondered about that because it doesn't show them, because they're still outright. Yeah, they're still minors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're still really bad, so yeah I was glad they protected them, even though any one of those videos you can go watch. I'm sure I don't know, maybe you can't now, but um, even though she didn't protect them, I was so glad the producers of this, this little mini series, protected them by not showing and that's, and that's such a good thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because even the video, um tapes and stuff like that, they blurred them out. I mean, yeah, those that their their page is still is shut down or whatever the case is. But you know, yeah, like the takeaways for me, like have somebody that will really be honest with you and and that you will actually listen to. Like not somebody, oh, they'll be honest with me but I'll just ignore them. No, like somebody that you really like take their opinion to heart and that would tell you the truth and not let you walk around with toilet paper on your shoe in the most you know intense situation.
Speaker 1:You know intense version of losing your livelihood on on social media or something like that. Like, if you ever have to ask yourself should I or shouldn't? I don't.
Speaker 2:The answer is no, you should not.
Speaker 1:No, if you ever look in the mirror, like I used to tell my employees, if you look in the mirror and go, should I wear this to work? Don't, because there's something about it that you shouldn't be wearing it to work. So same thing. You watch that video. Always watch your video before you repost it. We don't, because we sit here and watch it together and we agree like it's good enough, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:But before I post anything, you know you want to make sure because there could be that one little thing. And so check yourself. Have somebody in your life that will help you check yourself and that you'll listen to, because there's times where you're going to hit life and you think you're going crazy and you're like, is it me or is it? Am I the asshole or what's going on? Have those people in your world and use them, lean on them when you need them, because a lot of that stuff could have been saved if she would have just leaned into her relationship, her current relationship with her husband face, you know, really focused on that, instead of losing her focus and and and choosing it to focus somewhere else. And so the whole, the whole, my whole theory is, is that she lost complete focus of her family and her religion and all of that keep her, you know, in her little world and um, and this is what happens when that happens, you know, like it, it could, it could be bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. All right, we did it. We covered a lot of ground.
Speaker 1:We did. We covered a whole smorgasbord of things. But I think I have a feeling that we're going to be doing that because we've both got a lot of things going on, as we all know. But we're catching up on stuff in our lives and I like I am journaling and writing and never done that before in my whole entire life. That's, um, it's different but I like it. So I'm it's very random and sporadic and you would read it and think I'm in serial code. But that's what. It's different but I like it. So I'm it's very random and sporadic and read it and think I'm in serial code, but that's what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2:And it's when we try to pretend it's going to be perfect that we don't do it, because it's like, oh, I don't, what am I going to say? That doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:No, it's like literally random thoughts and I'm like, ooh, I could talk about this or whatever, but as I'm doing it, I'm building my little like talking points as for my video, so keep your eye out for those. I'll have to share it to the, you know, dumpster diving page or other stuff that we're doing. But yeah, youtube is is where it's at for us.
Speaker 2:I love it. All right, people go find us on YouTube. Be sure to like, share, subscribe, no-transcript.
