Dumpster Diving with Janice & Jane Podcast
Dumpster Diving with Janice & Jane Podcast
Your Age Is Not Your Limitation: Building a Career Path After 45
After a brief hiatus we're back and digging into Ageism in the workplace. Jane shares her real-time challenges, and, of course, it made perfect sense to us to share what we've learned with you!
Age discrimination remains one of the most pervasive yet least discussed barriers in today's job market. What happens when decades of valuable experience become a liability rather than an asset? How do you navigate a system that often values youth over wisdom?
Drawing from personal experience and backed by research, we peel back the layers of workplace ageism and its profound impact on job seekers over 45. The statistics are startling—78% of older workers have experienced age discrimination, yet only 25% of companies have policies to address it. Women face a double bias, with significantly lower callback rates for interviews compared to younger candidates.
We explore practical, actionable strategies for combating these hidden barriers: from owning your value during salary negotiations to reframing your years of experience as "depth" rather than just time served. Learn why updating your personal brand, building multi-generational networks, and strategically adjusting your resume can make a crucial difference in your job search journey.
The conversation takes an inspiring turn toward creating your own opportunities when traditional doors remain closed. It's no coincidence that women over 48 represent the largest demographic entering entrepreneurship today—many are building their own doors when existing ones won't open.
Perhaps most valuable is our discussion of psychological resilience in the face of rejection. The simple yet powerful technique of naming your negative inner voice and dismissing it with a firm "not today" provides an immediate tool for maintaining confidence during a challenging job search.
Whether you're currently experiencing ageism, supporting someone who is, or simply preparing for future career transitions, this episode offers both validation and practical wisdom for navigating the complex intersection of age, experience, and employment in today's workforce. Subscribe now and join the conversation about creating more inclusive workplaces for professionals of all ages.
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you're listening to dumpster diving with janice and jane and here we are has been a minute. It's been a minute.
Speaker 2:It's been a hard minute it's been a hard minute and I know that our really um dedicated listeners know that when we are silent, it's because all the things are happening and we are succumbing to life, right, um. So thank you for sticking with us regardless, um, and I'm just glad that we're sticking with each other because, you know, a couple of weeks goes by and it's easy to let a couple more weeks go by and then it's two months go by and um, but yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1:And then every time we do it, we're always happy that we did. It Is as easy as it is to procrastinate, but it really hasn't been procrastination, it's been capacity.
Speaker 2:Exactly and with literally bandwidth. Oh my gosh, that's crazy, crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we did Easter, we did Easter together.
Speaker 2:You got you and the girls came here and we had so much fun spending time with you guys and just the little bit of time we did.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was like 24 hours and then it was. I felt like I was just outside, but I love being outside. I cooped up, so I feel bad. It's just warm and fun out here and I'm just laying in the sun and I just I don't have animals running around me telling me what to do, so well, there's, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:You know, you can see it both ways.
Speaker 1:On one hand, Some, for some people it's hard to relax when they're not in their own space, but for me, and sometimes that's true for me too, but and other times it's hard to it's hard to relax when I'm in my own space, Cause, like you said, yeah, I could do the laundry, I could do the this, so sometimes you have to be someplace different to actually truly relax, so right, Exactly, and so, yeah, so it's always nice, but it's funny because I'm most relaxed outside and so, like, when I'm inside, I'm like I feel like I have to be moving, like it's just normal, weird shit that I do, and I'm like if I sit outside, I know I don't have to do anything per se, unless, like, hey, can you help me with this? Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I love it. I'm excited about our topic for today, and it's for a few different reasons. I'm going to say it's timely because all hell is breaking loose and everybody and his brothers losing their job, so there's that um and um and so and and. Because it it hits home for us in terms of where we are in our own journeys, right um. So you want to introduce our topic? Tell people we're going to talk about yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, this topic was brought to you by yours truly only because, um, you know, I'm the most important thing in this room right now, and so whatever I'm going through is what we're going to talk about. Yes, and that is experiencing ageism, um, while looking for a new job. And I, I mean, I don't think it's, I haven't felt it directly, but I feel I know it's out there and I'm just noticing little things, and so I'm like, hmm, that's interesting, I'm going to pay attention to that. But then also past experience and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, this job search has been really hard. It's been seven months searching and searching, and searching, and applying, and applying, and applying. So not only is the job market so all over the place right now, but it's also we're also competing against each other and degrees and all of those things. But then we're also, you know, experience is one thing, but then all you know, I'm noticing too much experience is a bad thing too, meaning time-wise tenure, you know stuff like that. Cause, as I'm, you know and I'm, I'm noticing this and and and there it's a double-edged sword. You want to put on there your experience, but then you're like, should I put that much experience, because are they going to think I'm too old for this role?
Speaker 1:or too expensive or too expensive for this role, yeah, and so I've been um tossing that around every day, when I'm applying for 15 jobs a day and searching for those positions, you know, or, or I know that I could do, or, and at this point it's whatever's going to pay the bills, because I'm there, you know, but I need to make wise choices regardless. So so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I love it, appreciate the chance to spend a little time on it too, and you know I'll say that you know well, first off, you know, let's let's confirm we're talking about Right, we're talking about a discrimination in the workplace based on age. Right. And one thing, even though we're going to be focusing on the older end, because that's where we are, you know, it does happen on both ends of the spectrum, right, that there certainly are very young people in the workforce who would argue that they get subjected to ageism because people make assumptions about what they do know, don't know, etc. On our end, of course, we're thinking about some of the biases that exist for some of the things that you said. Right, like, if I have too much experience, am I too expensive? Am I overqualified? Am I all the things?
Speaker 2:And something else that reinforces that this is a really timely topic for me is that I follow a guy on LinkedIn who does like suggestions on resumes you know resumes and stuff like that and one of the things that he wrote about recently was, when you are an older worker looking for a job, that you should tailor the language in your resume so that it doesn't scream your age. And he, he. Some of the tips that he offered were like do not put the year you graduated right. You can put the schools, but don't put the year you graduated. Don't use things. Don't use words like veteran right, use words like experienced, and and there's just these nuances of how to present yourself on paper in a way that doesn't get you excluded before you even have a chance to talk to somebody.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and and and. The way that everything's going now, too, is that you know you have that proper aspect of you know resume, cover letter, blah, blah, blah. But there's so many people that don't worry about the cover letter, don't do this, don't do that. But that's another way where you can differentiate and put a little oomph to what's on your resume so they don't make those assumptions. And that's something that I figured out as well is like okay, if I'm going to really dig deep on here and not make my resume 20 years long because they want to see certain jobs, and if there's gaps because I haven't done that job in 10 years, you know how do I put that on there. So the cover letter is something that I've been pushing as well.
Speaker 2:That's smart.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in anticipation of this conversation, I did a quick look and just at, like, some statistics, right, so lots of folks have put stuff out, especially in the last five years.
Speaker 2:The National Bureau of Economic Research did a study, like, I think, in the like 2020, like early, early on, and even then they found that older applicants, especially women because, of course, as women, we have the double bias, just like people who are older, who are people of color or a bit right, like you have that double bias are significantly less likely to get callbacks for second interviews compared to younger candidates, right, so just that factor can impact the rate at which you get a callback and an opportunity to go back to that second interview, or what have you.
Speaker 2:And then, shocker of all shocker, aarp, of course, has done lots of studies, and their most recent one, a couple of years ago, found that 78 percent of older workers and they qualify that as 45 or older have seen or experienced age discrimination or older have seen or experienced age discrimination. And yet only 25% of companies have policies that are, that are considered age inclusion policies, right, that are intentionally to make their folks not, you know, not do that right, not engage in those kinds of actions. So anyway, so from a research perspective, plenty of research to suggest that what you and I are talking about, yeah, is a real legit problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I mean, it's not like written down on paper, like you're too old for this job, they can't do that, it's illegal, right. So it's, it's all of those things, and, and I'm sure that if we asked for them which we should we want to hear your stories. Hey, always, awareness is everything, right. And so if we're talking about it, it's, it's something, it's it's there, right. And then you saw something on a podcast. I saw something on a TikTok, you know, and um, and it wasn't even an ageist thing, but the person that was doing the TikTok was an older, um, male, and so, and he's on there. He was like look, you know, like to make more money, you don't need to do more, you know. And he's like, let me show you how. He is somebody that worked for corporate America. He is now an entrepreneur, helping other people that want to do those things.
Speaker 1:And that's really where we're going with, you know, as we get older, and for me in particular, like it's been in in in my brain for years now, you know, and that's definitely like what I'm trying to do right now and I'm just trying to get all those ducks in the row and then, but I still, I still need to do other things. So where am I going to look? What am I going to find, you know, and what do I have the capacity for? I don't want to do a big, heavy and induced like job and manage tons of people and stuff like that. I want to keep it simple. I'm like so simple right now and that's what I'm looking to do. And and, and there's some, there's a um, there's peace with finding that, you know, and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So, but, yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting on how things are worded, you know, in in in job descriptions and stuff like that, and the questions that they ask, and I think a big one, and I think this is, you know, I mentioned it quickly that you know they ask you how many years of experience do you have? In this Right Us thinking how experienced we are and everything else, we go oh, I have 30 years of experience. Why wouldn't they hire me? Of course, that would be great, you know. And then I'm sorry, we found somebody that's more qualified. How is somebody more qualified than 30 years of experience? Yeah, right, so it's just to me. It's how it translates to the person who's reading it, right.
Speaker 2:Well, 100%, and I think that that actually kind of dovetails nicely into you know some of the other statistics that I saw. You know some of the other statistics that I saw like for. So, to your point, right, I have 30 years experience, but you're telling me that somebody else has, who has, you know, better experience, more experience, whatever it is, and and part of the issue with ageism and it's true of most of the isms right are the assumptions that we make about people, right?
Speaker 1:So somebody might look at a resume that says 30 years experience and the question in their mind is no-transcript that young people know how to build a spreadsheet in Excel and know how to use Google suite and do all those things, and it's no. It's whatever you're exposed to, right.
Speaker 2:That's right. Well, and along those lines, in terms of the older versus the younger, so to speak, right, you know, one of the things that Joe really felt like he experienced as he's navigated the job market over the last 10 years since he retired from the not quite, but almost 10 years since he retired from the Navy there have been a couple of times where he has suspected that the younger person was hired not because they necessarily felt like they were better qualified, but just because they were cheaper. Like you know, we're going to get this person in this job and, yeah, it might be a bigger lift because they're not going to have as many skills as you would have 25 years, 30 years of experience but they will be cheaper. And that's what we need right now is people who are cheaper because they have less experience, right, right, so do we start taking less money then?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's the hard part and one of the things I have really valued about you consistently, as we've chatted about your journey, as you said, as you're're looking for the next kind of professional path, you know you have this path in terms of that kind of thing. But this, the subsidizing part of it, if you will, is how consistently you stick to what I'm what I'm worth, Right. I know what I'm worth Right, and that's the tricky part, because you do know what you're worth and and so the question question like it's you've you've recounted some conversations where you're working to bring them along to understand that it's worth paying you, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I did a, um, I had an interview and, um, it was just a phone interview and and they were telling me what the, what the pay range was, yeah, and, and I said, yes, I understand that. And they said, well, you asked for this and it was several dollars more per hour. And I said, yeah, I did. And they were like, well, are you willing to take the lower? And I said, I mean I would think about it, but I know my worth and I know what I bring to the table and I know that it will. You know, like it'll be very easy for you guys to see that.
Speaker 1:And then her rebuttal was well, you know, we would need to see how you work and and blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, my resume and letter of recommendation and everything else speaks for itself. And and just in this interview, I feel that you were impressed with what I said and my responses. And she's like, yes, and I said so. So I know my worth and I don't think that it would be too much to pay what I'm asking and then have in turn an amazing employee that's going to represent your company.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And in such a great light that you'll never have to ask questions or anything else Like okay, well, yeah, you know, negotiations can happen, and blah, blah, blah. Exactly, I'm not going to get pushed around either, I'm not going to. Just because it's a part-time job doesn't mean that I don't get paid what I should get paid, and so it's just funny. It's just funny how the world is and, and, and I, I, I've been thinking about this a lot, because, not that I started believing it for one second, but I could see how other people could tack on that too, you know, and let's tack it on and and oh, do you love me?
Speaker 2:I don't know how that happened.
Speaker 1:I'm like like oh, now you know well, that was the confirmation. That was it. So, um, no like, um, oh shoot. What was I saying?
Speaker 2:the you know the conversation that you were having with this potential employer and again just kind of digging into the idea that, like I know exactly what I'm worth, I know I would be working the table. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was one little point that I was making, but I can't remember now. But anyways, the heart's distracted me, huh.
Speaker 2:You know what? This is why they're not hiring us old people. Okay, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Technology. And then I get distracted by hearts floating on the screen. Where's Chase when I need her to read shit for me? No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:Come on, chase.
Speaker 2:Well, and so one of the things that I wanted to kind of reflect on is like okay, so you're an employer out there, maybe you're hearing this, maybe you're a part of a conversation where people are talking about this.
Speaker 2:So how do you make the case right for older workers? Right, and some of it it's so obvious, right, obviously you know, especially if they're already in your company, they bring institutional knowledge, right. I think every time we have somebody who retires or what have you, I always think, oh my gosh, that's so much institutional knowledge that's going away, right, that nobody else here knows. They demonstrate we of course demonstrate that we have higher levels of loyalty and retention. Often we're way more emotionally resilient and better at conflict management, right, than younger folks who you're hiring because they're cheaper, but then you have to support in a whole lot of additional ways and use a lot more resources. And again, this isn't anti-young people, this is saying higher people on their merit, right. But the other interesting piece that I picked up when I was reading through was that there are some studies that actually show that intergenerational teams are higher performing.
Speaker 2:And that doesn't surprise me, but it was really cool to see it backed up right by research studies that, yes, when you have those intergenerations, you're likelier to get higher performance out of them than if you have a homogeneous group of all people who are the same age, whether they're all older or whether they're all younger right.
Speaker 1:Well, you, you tend to yeah, I mean, I, I think this is just my, you know, opinion maybe, maybe or thought, maybe the younger you know younger generations a little bit more hungry and competitive and all of those things, and so we need this young team, whatever. But, like you're saying, when you have, when you have an integrated team and inclusive team with different age groups and different cultures and stuff like that, it's amazing how teams can work together and collaborate. And because you're coming from different angles, it's not all one think group, it's it's different elements of that and different layers. So that's a really great point. I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And you know, you mentioned earlier, like you know, starting, you know not starting You've had your own business and really trying to use this time of your life to invest in that and just have something that kind of helps you through while you do that. Have something that kind of helps you through while you do that. That was another little detail that I saw that women like 48 and older are the biggest group going into entrepreneurship right now. And, excuse me, this particular study was suggesting that it's because they're experiencing this in the workplace and so it's kind of like great, if you're not going to value me, then I'm just going to go start my own business. And it made me think of you again, like, yeah, and this you know. You know you can think of this point in our lives as midlife. You can think it, as you know, from a work perspective. You often hear the expression like oh, they're past their prime, or, and in my mind mind, like I know for myself, I feel like I've just hit it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think time is like 50, 50, you know, and then you have a whole nother 10 years after that to seal a deal and then you retire. You know, like that's where I see it, like I'm still, I'm still edging up on that. You know, I still have another good 40 years in me. So you know, and I'm going to enjoy those years, um, you know, and and educate myself in different ways. I talked to, I talked to Coley yesterday about the stuff and I was like I need help. I was like I'm about I'm about to make it big here. Okay, I told him that I was like I'm about to blow up. I'm like, cause I am. And I was like the shit's going to be crazy and it's going to be a lot of fun and everything else. So I need your guys' help on maintaining all of this and getting debts paid off and everything else. So that was a lot of fun because it's like needing to get that done to to then. Then I'll feel like I'm in my prime Once I have that finalized.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like then it's like, okay, cool, yep, but I love that I can tell you guys were having that kind of a conversation and I just feel like having a financial you know guru in your pocket, right, it's such a smart thing when you have a, when you have your own business and, like you said, you're on the cusp of some of the big things, et cetera. Like, okay, how do I plan now to be organized so that when it's all coming down, it's organized, it's being attacked in the exact same, in the way I need for it to be attacked, et cetera, versus me like spending a year trying to get my feet under me.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and I don't want to do that. So, but yeah, it's, it's, but the journey getting there and everything else it's it's been a long journey. However, however, this job journey has sucked so bad, my God. Yeah, no, like it's, it's frustrating and it's um, you know, in the, in the aspect of the psyche part of it, it's very um. You have to like gut, like recheck yourself every freaking day. You have to like gut, like recheck yourself every freaking day, cause every freaking day is a gut check, you know, and and I I'm not one that gets um, that gets discouraged by um rejection you know, oh, we didn't like your, I don't care, that's fine, you know, it's the.
Speaker 1:It's the like getting excited about applying for some of these things and then they're like no, and you're like, dang, you know, okay, cool, and you start looking again. So then you start, then you start going okay, well, I'm just going to start applying for anything you know like, you know. So it's just like it's this cycle that you get stuck in, and and it's hard right now, because you know the economy is doing the it's doing, and, and the stock market and everything's so expensive and stuff like that. So just stay positive. I mean, it's really the only thing that you can control is your perspective and and when it comes down to any type of age isms or or isms in the workplace or or just even in life, you know, I I was feeling I was being um, receiving some ageism from my daughter this morning and not okay, girl.
Speaker 1:No, not okay To your mother, but I think it has everything to do with with all everything that's going on, right? Now Of course and here's another thing, guys is like we put like, especially as independent women and single moms and the ones that have been through all the things we put a lot of value in work and doing the job and and everything else, and I have instilled that into my children.
Speaker 1:Like this is the, this is the way you get to where you want to go. And the fact that I've been unemployed for so long right now, I think, is wearing on my 19 year old and cause she made some comment this morning. I was talking about an interview and I said, yeah, I'm, I'm going to talk to them about this. Maybe you should just stick to the job and just get the job. And I was like, okay, okay, I get where you're coming from. Like I totally do. But have a little faith. You know, all of that piled on, you know it's, it's hard, it's a gut check. It's makes your hair look crazy. And I got the artist look, I need to trim these bangs again. They're growing so fast. Yeah, yeah, it's been a lot, but I think just combating those things with positivity and figuring out a way to twist it back and and look at the positive side is the biggest part for sure.
Speaker 2:I said was okay. So what do we offer? Right, You're offering positivity, which is so important, and and persistence and, um, you know, grit if you're not using that word, but I hear that word coming through but so many of the things that that um that came up are things that I see you doing. Right, own your value. We talked about that already. Right, you are being very clear about what you're worth, et cetera. Uh, this offered a couple of little additional things like keep a wins folder Right, track your successes and stuff, because sometimes, like, we have them in our head, but in that moment when we need to present them, like they fly out. Right. So, like our process to actually do that, I really like this one Reframe age as depth Right.
Speaker 2:Well, I have a lot of depth because of the level of experience and I was like, oh, I like that a lot, I think that's very appealing right um? I see you doing this one.
Speaker 2:Stay current, not for them, but for you, right oh, yeah, you are doing so many things to heighten your own level of skill set, diversify your knowledge, like you're doing those things. You're using this time productively, I guess is my point Right, so that you are um continuing to grow yourself for yourself, um update your personal brand. I see you doing that Right, like that's. One of the first things you did was like, okay, I need to update everything, I need to modernize it, I need to make it feel like I want it to feel, and and. So I see you doing that. And the next one was build a multi-generational network. I see you doing that too, right. Like you tap into so many different community groups, so many different, and in those groups, right, you have aged and all generations represented.
Speaker 1:And it's so diverse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell us about a couple of those right, like the way you are expanding your own network while you're oh man, so so, yeah, I joined, so I'm already a part of a women's group and they're based out of like the Valley and and then like West LA, like Santa Monicaica kind of area and they're all you know it'sa women's group and there's about in between the two of the groups I think there's there's over 250 women and so um, so that's a lot you know and and they meet up monthly and, um, if you can go, you can go. If you can't, you can't, but you can't. But it's going in there, it's networking, it's talking to them, it's finding out about them connecting on socials and stuff like that there's you know ways to present and all of those things. And they do little fun mixers and games and then everybody gets to like host and in their own spot and stuff. So it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:I joined another networking group that is mostly women entrepreneurs, but that's up closer by me and it's a little different. It's more of a support group, it's more of accountability there. Yeah, it's, it's. It costs. There is a membership fee per month but you know, for the little bit that they're asking for it's under a hundred bucks a month but they do. They do accountability, bi-weekly accountability meetings and the founder is meeting with you and doing accountability meetings and talking about what happened this time and stuff. It's really great. And then everybody has their own little niche and business that they do. And then you know they have little mixers too, and so, like this Saturday, we're going to a beach close to me and we're doing a sunset, you know, and a little wine and charcuterie boards and stuff like that. But a couple of us are, yeah, and it's just, but this one has over 500 people in it and they're all over the state. So this is just just us in this area are going to meet up and do that. So doing that, reaching out to clients we used to serve and and just reconnecting with them and just letting them know on on a you know, on a personal level, that you are now doing your own thing and so, and then asking them to spread it too and putting it out there.
Speaker 1:And then the final thing I did you guys and I'm not 100% consistent with it every single day, but I'm doing it as much as I can and when I have the capacity, because my life is crazy right now, so, but I'm not it's pretty regular basis is doing TikTok videos and posting them on, or doing short videos and posting them on YouTube, facebook, instagram and TikTok yeah, and just putting them out there and just little like. When I have a little thought, I'm like, ooh, I want to go talk about this real quick. Or, and mind you, I have 5 billion thoughts a day and so I think about it all day long, but then I get to oh, this is the one I want to do. So a long list of things, but yeah, they're just little small tidbit things. I'm just spreading love and light.
Speaker 1:I don't want to make it a negative thing. I want to make it all like hey, have you thought about it this way? Or have you had a situation like this Blah, blah, blah, you know, and just giving little life tips or showing you bees in my lavender bush, yeah, it is whatever whatever at the moment. So, yeah, well, it is Whatever whatever At the moment.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Well, it's that whole things that bring you joy, and so thank you, Thank you for sharing that, because I think those are some really great concrete examples of this idea of you know stay current.
Speaker 2:Reinventing yourself Building your network. Exactly, we, we kind of. It's funny, you say reinventing. So a quick little tangent, and I'm going to come back to this.
Speaker 2:I was listening to one of the podcasts I listened to today and they were interviewing Monica Lewinsky because she just started her own podcast about I don't know. She's got like 12 episodes, I think, or something like that, out there and it's called oh shit, it's not. No, I can't, it's Monica Lewinsky. If you look up her name you'll find it. But they were talking about this word reinvent, and she said she's actually stopped using that word because it suggests that what was there before is broken. And I thought that was so. I don't necessarily agree that it suggests that, but I thought it was just that. But I could see where it could, yeah. Yeah, I thought it was a really interesting perspective. She's like I'm not reinvent, not reinventing. I'm evolving, I'm growing, I'm building off of the things that you know have happened before today and looking ahead to the things that could happen tomorrow that I can influence and inform, et cetera. So it was a really cool perspective, but it made me think about that.
Speaker 1:It made me think about that word I like that though, and but I mean we it all depends on how it hits you, I think, because we reinvent. I don't think that for me, it's not a negative thing. I think it's it's taking what you have and then making it better. You know, I don't think it's wiping away, it's it's reinventing what you have. You know who are you, you know, and that's where I've come to, you know, like I'm going through all these little metamorphosis, you know, over the last couple of months. But you know, it's all of these thoughts and where am I? What am I going? What am I doing? How do I want to be seen? How do I want to be viewed? How do I view myself?
Speaker 1:You know, and that's the biggest thing, is um is releasing, and and I and I have been like this is like a mantra of mine is releasing these, these negative guilt, the negative guilt and the negative, negative assumptions that other people have of you, on you, you know, and that's so much weight that we carry around and and I'm okay with you know, I've, I've done the work, I've worked on I've I haven't made the best choices in my life, you know all the time, and so reflecting on those, forgiving yourself for those and then, moving on, nobody can bother you about it anymore. Nobody can say anything that you haven't dealt with yourself. So go ahead and say what you need, and once you've done that, there's, it's all like it's. You have Teflon on you man, it just beads off your back like a duck. You know it's like it's done, and that's half the battle. Once you get that done, then you can start clearly thinking about how you want to do things, because now those narratives aren't there anymore. You know, and it's a process, it's a process, but yeah.
Speaker 2:It is, and I think that you know it's.
Speaker 2:It's again such great reflections for folks who are in an in-between space, right, and trying to figure out how to navigate outside of the constant apply right Interview, apply, interview.
Speaker 2:I do want to mention, you know, if you're in a job right now especially, that of course, you have very specific rights and the Age Discrimination Employment Act protects us from discrimination, yada, yada. So you should be seeing your HR people reaching out to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission if you really genuinely feel like in the moment, you're being discriminated on based on your age. But the other thing that you are again modeling for us, jane, is this idea of explore alternatives. Right, if you're not using this language but this made me think of you and the language here was if the door won't open, build your own, and you have been so like just powerhouse about. I'm creating my own opportunity, right, I'm creating the space for the opportunity to be here and to show up, and I think that you know this really isn't specific to ageism in particular, but generally speaking, it's such a powerful perspective to yeah, yeah, thank you, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, absolutely absolutely it's, uh, it's, it's hard when you're in it every day and you don't remember those things, and so it's, uh, oh, so I okay. One last little thought, and this is a little tip, and I'm using it because it's working for me.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Let's final tip everybody final tip there we go okay when your inner voice starts going and starts talking crap, like oh, you can't do that, blah, blah, blah. I've taken that voice and I've named her.
Speaker 2:Her name is becky I thought you're gonna say janice, and I was gonna see through the right, through the zoom and every time she starts talking shit to me, I say not today, janice, no, no.
Speaker 1:And so it's like, yeah, not today, becky, not today. And I mean, if I saw a tick talk about this and I thought it was the best thing, I'm even using the same name, cause I love that I'm like Becky. And so every time that negative stuff starts going or it's like, oh, you can't do that, or what are you really thinking, or anything like. That's like Becky, we're not doing that today. Oh, my God that is so brilliant, I love it Seriously.
Speaker 2:I love it so stinking brilliant, heck. I'm thinking, though, that you could transfer that same tip to people in your life. Yeah, like especially the downers, the ones who are like exactly I'm thinking uh, not today, debbie not today, oh my. God, that's hilarious. I love that.
Speaker 1:That's a great. That's what I'm going to name her. She could be Debbie Debbie downer.
Speaker 2:It's like no, debbie, we're not. No, it could be it too. There's something about Becky. I don't know what it is, but there's definitely funny.
Speaker 1:But no, I like Debbie Downer because that's.
Speaker 2:That's because it ties to that, but I love ending on that because, you know, even though we're talking about very specific, you know this idea of ageism in the workplace, especially in this episode, that mantra, because we all have that negative voice in our head about something almost every single day. I love the idea of, so shout out to whoever's TikTok that was, I can't remember. It was so cute Naming your voice and then just reminding her no, not today.
Speaker 1:No Debbie.
Speaker 2:I'm going to think about mine. I'm not going to name mine Debbie. I feel like mine needs to be named something different.
Speaker 1:Becky's pretty good too.
Speaker 2:It's either going to be it's either going to be, but it's, it's a, it's, it's a toss-up. Maybe someday she's going to be debbie, but becky's pretty good. I like that, I like it. I like it a lot. All right, people, that's what we have for you today. We're excited to finally be back in your ear and again, thanks to those who've been hanging on to us. So, um, yeah, we're looking forward to the next time for sure, and it shouldn't be too long no't be too long.
Speaker 2:I think we're going to be back on a, on a roll again and like, subscribe, share, do all the things. Remember we're trying to. We're trying to put more energy into YouTube. We haven't really put more energy into anything in the last few weeks because we've been so stretched, but but we're going to show up there.
Speaker 1:So so everything's on YouTube and I need to. Yeah, we're going to show up there. So everything's on YouTube and I need to. Yeah, we're going to get it all fixed up. So, yeah, go to YouTube, You'll find it. All right.
Speaker 2:Thanks guys, bye.
