Butterfly Love From Infatuation to Real Love

Butterflies don’t build marriages—choices do. We open up about the rush of infatuation, the friction of the fight for power, and the quiet strength of mature love, weaving our 26-year story through the science, the pitfalls, and the simple practices that help couples grow. You’ll hear why dopamine and oxytocin make those early days feel like a dream, how cortisol and stress twist small annoyances into big battles, and what it takes to move from me-versus-you to us-versus-the-problem.

We break down the three stages of love with honesty and hope. From late-night balcony confessions to the seven-year itch, we name what changes, what hurts, and what actually heals. Along the way, we offer concrete tools you can use tonight: summarize-before-you-respond listening, ground rules for hard talks, the three-to-one affirmation rule, and a pause, pray, plan approach for high-stakes decisions. We also tackle comparison, stonewalling, and scorekeeping, and we share how weekly family meetings, shared values, and small, daily touches restore trust and affection.

If you’ve wondered where the spark went, or feared you’ve fallen out of love, this conversation reframes conflict as the classroom where love grows up. Mature love isn’t less passionate; it’s more secure, more generous, and far more sustainable. And yes, the butterflies can return in moments—when your habits make space for them. Want more? Our new book, Butterfly Love, tells the whole story and hands you the tools we use. Listen, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review so others can find the show. Then tell us: which stage are you in, and what tool will you try this week?

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Transcript

Love As A Daily Choice

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know, love is like that that action verb. Like love, you know, Jesus said, if you love me, you'll keep my commandments, you'll do what I say. And so, like, loving is like that action thing. So I'm choosing to love you, and you don't have to. Yeah. You get to make the choice.

Welcome & Episode Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:17

It's not like the infatuation stage is not love. It is love, but it's immature love. Yes, yes. It's feelings, and feelings are fickle. And so, real love, the mature love is a choice. And it's a choice that we're gonna work this out and we're gonna honor coven. Hey, what's up, everybody?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Hey everyone.

The Three Stages Of Love

SPEAKER_01 0:40

So good to have you for another episode of Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha. So happy to have you guys and glad that you found our podcast today. And for those of you all who've been tracking along with us, thank you for doing life with us. That's our goal to build a community of people, help you take a step towards loving God and the people that God has placed in your life. We got a great one for you today. Not just a good one. I believe this is a great one. This is one you're wanna you're gonna want to share with other people. This is one you're gonna want to stay to the end. We're gonna be introducing something new today, towards the end. This one is called Butterfly Love from Infatuation to Real Love. All right. And today we want to talk about the three stages of love. Number one, the infatuation stage. Number two, the fight for power stage. And number three, the mature love stage. All right. And we want to help you understand each stage so that you don't get stuck in one of them and not make it to mature love. But we want to start off with the what we call the butterfly love stage that some would call the infatuation stage. How would you define the infatuation stage?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

I love the infatuation stage. I think it's the fun one. You know, this is the one where it's like you're on drugs. It's like better than a hundred cups of coffee, better than your favorite energy drink. This is the one that's just like you wake up in the morning thinking about this person, you go to sleep at night thinking about this person, you're dreaming about this person. This is like that butterfly love.

College Romance & First I Love You

SPEAKER_01 2:07

That's what it is. This is where the person can do no wrong. They look good, they smell good, they is good, they talk good. You see no flaws. All you see is the good parts of this person. And so, um, can you tell them about our butterfly love stage? What do you recall?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Um, I recall what we were in college.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Um, I recall um now for those of you all who are new to the show, we've been married for 26 years. All right. But when we first met, we were hot for each other. We were that you can make a rom-com movie off of our love. It was it was butterfly love.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Because, I mean, from my point of view, you were just kind, sweet. You know, first of all, I met you at a time where I was seeking God. Um, I didn't know God, didn't have a relationship with him. I was just kind of figuring out, is God real? Um, and I met you, and you said that you knew God and you loved God, and that just meant so much to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

I don't know if I said that. I didn't say I knew God and I loved God.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Well, I perceived that you did because we had conversations.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah. Yes. I remember like I just said I went to church.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Uh-huh. But then that was when you first met. I'm talking about the whole phase. Like, yeah. Okay. You know. Um, so in that phase, I'm finding out wow, he grew up in church. That was attractive to me, who was seeking to find his God real.

unknown 3:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

And um I I didn't grow up in church. So it just meant something to me. And I liked that about you. Okay. It was that. Um, I thought that um you were articulate, um, you were um goal-oriented, you made good grades, you know. It at the time in college, most college students didn't have a car. You were driving a car. I thought that that was very mature.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Um, I thought Did you see any flaws?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

I saw no flaws.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

No flaws.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

You were But a flaw will completely blind you aater was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

So we did a thing where it was like, you know, we'd be talking on the phone and it would get late. We'd get sleepy, but we wouldn't hang up on each other. Um you hang up. No, you hang up. No, you hang up. And then she'd fall asleep and say, Hey, you you sleep? No, I'm not sleepy. We were, it was that kind of intoxicating love.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah. And this wasn't cell phone. These weren't cell phones. These were like we had the phone connected to the wall.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I think they get it. Hopefully they did it.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

And the cord wrapped around.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah, I think that um this was drunk in love years before Beyonce dropped the song. This was this was the epitome of drunken love. Um, so I I recall that we sometimes would just hold hands or just hold each other, and it would just feel like there was such butterflies, especially the night that we told each other. I don't know if you told me that you loved me after I told you that I loved you, but what what is your recollection of that of that story? So I just remember the butterfly feeling is real.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

So we're on um, we're we're in Morgantown, West Virginia. We're on High Street. I'm on my balcony of my apartment. It's probably about three o'clock in the morning. You're sitting on my lap, we're just cuddling, we're just holding. And um, what do you recall about that that night?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I recall, um, yeah, I mean, looking into the stars, like all of the like ooey-gooey rom-com stuff. That's what we were doing. We were literally looking at the stars and talking about the stars, and like, because it was late at night looking off of the balcony.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Were we really talking about the stars?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yes. I don't remember the picture in my mind, it's like looking at the stars.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

I don't know if it's true or not. It's true. I don't remember the details of the conversation, but what I do remember is this is the first time that I said I love you. Yeah, and this was a big moment for me. You know, I I I it's not words that I wanted to throw around easily, but I knew that I was in love with you. And I knew that I was probably gonna say this first. And so I'm sitting on my balcony, we're holding one another, and I don't even remember what I said. Like I cannot recall the sound of my voice, but I remember saying that I love you. Yeah, and I don't remember you saying it back. All I remember is having so much butterflies in this moment that I felt like I could fly off this balcony and just float up into the air. Yeah, that's what we call butterfly love.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah. I mean, I think it was great. I'm pretty sure I said I love you back.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

You're pretty sure?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

I'm pretty like I don't remember like very much. I remember the moment. And it was like I remember you said it, and I was just like, oh, I was so happy that you said it. I can't even remember like my response back. Like, I'm sure I was like You were waiting for me to say it. I don't know. I guess I was.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Well, you you guys gotta bear with us. This is over a quarter century ago.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

No, I mean, but it's just like, yeah, it's just I I think it happened, you know, like in what I feel like, um, it's just it was just, yeah, a little eye.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

The butterflies felt like I could fly. Did you feel the same way or no?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yes.

The Brain Chemistry Of Infatuation

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Okay. And so that's what we call the infatuation stage. And actually, this is very biological and it's also chemical. Um, what it is, infatuation stage, it is the honeymoon stage of the relationship where there is an intense attraction, constant excitement, and lots of energy poured into the other person. Okay, from a biological and chemical level, it is the pleasure chemical, dopamine. It spikes. All right. Every inaction feels exciting and also rewarding. Um, the bonding hormone, oxytocin, increases, making you feel deeply connected. Adrenaline heightens energy, focus, and even physical attraction. And there's a serotonin drop that can cause obsessive thoughts about the person. Mean, you're always on my mind. I mean, you're just thinking about them. You you can't go to class, you can't think, you can't. I mean, they're always on your mind. This is what we call the infatuation stage of the relationship, which is the first stage of love. Okay. It's not mature love, it's the first stage of love. There's other stages to come. Anything you want to add on that?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

That is so good. It's it's it's funny to break it down scientifically, kind of. Um, but yeah, that's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Physical signs, increased energy, less need for sleep, appetite changes, heart races when you see them, constant smiling, lingering eye contact, social behavior signs, or priority shift. You make extra time for them. You overlook flaws or red flags because of strong attraction. Friends, family might say you're glowing or you're different. But here's the risk: mistaking infatuation for longtime love without building friendship, shared values, and commitment. And that's what a lot of people do.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

So it's important to build friendship in that time. It's important to not jump from infatuation to the altar.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

But that's what happens when people say, Yeah, we met and we were in Vegas and we got married. And I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Hangover, but that that's it's probably not gonna end up well. You just had a bunch of serotonin drop, and you just had a bunch of oxyco, you know, you just have a bunch of hormones don't even be released.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

It's like you're drunk in love and um you want to give yourself time to sober so that you can soberly make a right the right decision.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Do you know how long the infatuation stage lasts? Most people say.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

I would guess a year.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Studies say two months to two years. Some even say to three years.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Wow.

Conflict As A Path To Maturity

SPEAKER_01 9:42

That leads us to the second stage, the fight for power stage. And this is when reality hits. What happens is things change. This is where differences, flaws, and unmet expectations they become visible. Both people push for their own agendas, preferences, and vision for the relationship. From a biological and chemical perspective, dopamine levels they return closer to normal. Cortisol, which is the stress hormone, it actually rises during conflict. Brain shifts focus from attraction to problem solving for self-protection. From a physical sign perspective, there's more tension in conversations. Body language may close off. Physical affection might feel less frequent or less spontaneous. Fatigue from repeated unresolved issues sets in. Social and behavior signs are these. Arguments become more frequent and intense. You notice flaws you didn't see before. You struggle over money, family, sex, or lifestyle decisions. Temptations to compare your partner to others is in this stage. From a biblical perspective, here's the risk: viewing conflict as proof the relationship is failing rather than seeing it as an opportunity to build maturity. And the truth is, is that this is the refining stage. God uses it to teach us humility, patience, servant-hearted, and love. But statistics show us that most people get divorced because they don't know how to deal with the fight for power stage. Wow. They say, I feel like I'm falling out of love. Why have they changed so much? They don't know that there's another stage to come.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Right. I feel like this is the stage where like love is actually this is where you choose to love. You know, love is like that action verb. Like you love, you know, Jesus said, if you love me, you'll keep my commandments, you'll do what I say. And so, like, loving is like that action thing. So I'm choosing to love you, and you don't have to. Yeah, you get to make the choice.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

It's not like the infatuation stage is not love. It is love, but it's inmature love. Yes, yes. It's feelings, and feelings are fickle. And so, real love, the mature love is a choice. And it's a choice that we're gonna work this out and we're gonna honor covenant.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

So you're in that first stage, you enter into the second stage, you know, you're figuring out like, wow, I have to choose to love this person. Now, if you're not married, that really, you know, you can choose not to and move on with your life. If you are married, you said yes. You got some work to do. So the choice, you have some work to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

And that's when But for you to think for a moment that you're gonna be able to just leave this marriage and go find someone else, you're gonna go through these stages again.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Same thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

You know, the thing about people who leave one relationship and go to another relationship is you still take you into that new relationship. And if you take the same mindsets, perspectives, attitudes, behaviors, you're probably gonna get the same result. Therefore, people on three or four marriages and they say, Well, what's wrong with the person? But you are the common denominator in all of those relationships. And at some point, we just gotta grow up and we gotta figure out that love is not based upon butterflies, it's based upon choice. Right. Every single day, covenant, commitment, faithfulness, growing together, fidelity, and all of these different things. How long do you think this stage lasts?

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I would say three years at least.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Two to seven years.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Some would even say up to eight. However, most divorces happen between year five and eight of marriage. Um, it they actually have a thing that they call the seven-year itch. And this is where unresolved, unaddressed things come to a forefront, and most people get divorced because they don't understand that that's just a normal part. And we had that. We had that a little bit earlier. Like, you know, I think our infatuation stage was kind of over. Maybe after year one.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I mean, yeah, we probably like we kind of we kind of dated on infatuation for for those of you all, and you gotta get our book. We tell the details of all of our story in our book, but um we kind of dated with crazy butterfly love. Then you broke up with me, and then we got back together, and I was holding unforgiveness, resentment a little bit, but I still wanted to marry you. So we came into the marriage, broke up like in stage two. We came into the marriage in a weird way, kind of like you're battling depression, I'm resent resentful, I'm wanting to pay you back, but still want you. And then so starting off our marriage, we were already in stage two, like right from the beginning of our marriage, we were fighting for who we would become today. We were fighting for the players, we were fighting for us, and the devil wasn't making it easy.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I feel like most marriages I mean, and not not I didn't mean most, I feel like some marriages never make it out of stage two. Well, that's the end like stage two just or they never develop into stage three. It's like you might be married ten years, but you're still in stage two.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Because if you're not making the right choices, the choice to love.

Rediscovering Butterflies In Marriage

What Mature Love Looks Like

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Well, that's why we have this podcast, and that's why we wrote this book. Um, and this is our conviction is that the butterflies are going to leave, but you can also go get them back. And I think that sometimes you miss how it used to be in the beginning. And it's not ever going to be like it was supposed to be in the beginning because the beginning is the beginning. But can you have glimpses of the beginning? And even though we've been married 26 years, I can still feel butterflies if I'm focused on you and I'm holding you and I'm smelling you and I'm sensing your love. And you know, uh one thing about mature love is that I don't just love you for your physical appearance, I love you for your soul, I love your soul, I love who you are as a person. And I think in in your growth in marriage, you'll learn all those different things. And so that kind of brings us to stage three, which is mature love or the mature, um, the mature love stage, which I would also call um agape love, which is the first Corinthians chapter 13, God kind of love. This is the love that is without condition. Yeah, this is the love that is other serving, this is the kind of love that God loves us with, and this is the kind of love that holds a marriage together, and where God is in the center of it. And this is what it is. This is where love moves from feeling based to choice base. You faced real challenges, you've learned to work through them, built trust and deep commitment. From a biological and chemical level, oxytocin remains consistently higher, leading to steady emotional and physical bonding. Um, there is another hormone that increases uh vasopressin, I believe it's it's it's called. It's linked to long-term attachment and loyalty. Dopamine still spikes occasionally, but now from shared growth, milestones, and deep intimacy, not just novelty or new experiences. Okay. Um, from a physical perspective, we um comfortable affection. We have holding hands, hugs, and physical closeness. They feel safe and it feels natural. This is where you want to get to. You have lower stress response when you're partner with your partner, even in times of conflict, because we've built trust with each other. Physical attraction remains, but it's complemented by deep emotional and spiritual connection, which we have now. Um, from a social and behavioral sign, behavioral sign, mutual respect for differences. Like I'm not trying to change you into me. You're not trying to change me into you. Um, shared vision, values, long-term goals. You fight for the relationship, not to win arguments. Like at this stage of my life, I don't care about being right. Like, I just don't feel like fighting. Uh, you enjoy life together even without constant highs. We don't have to be high all the time. And when you said in the beginning, it's like a drug, it is like a drug, but that drug cannot sustain. You have to come to the place where you have mature love.

Tools For Moving Toward Agape

SPEAKER_00 17:32

I think when we first got married and first got into a relationship, I knew none of that, none of the three stages. And that um I think if I had known that going into it, I probably would have had, like, you know, it would have been good for me, some tools in my, you know, in my in my tool belt. Because to know, like that, all right, I just moved from stage one to stage two, you know. And in um when I'm in stage two, we are learning each other. We're learning each other's differences.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

The two is becoming one. The two becoming one happens at the altar spiritually, but it takes years of coming together to have, um, to be able to cohabitate together.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

The mix of finances and perspectives and and family. And God knows if you have other children there. You're basically talking about two whole worlds coming together. And there's a lot of grace that's needed for the two become to become one.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

And then to know that when you're in stage two, most people are in stage two when they're having babies, you know. Right. Put all of that on top of, you know, you're in stage two, but now you have children.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

And I got a little sleep. Yeah, I got people eating off me, and I got the, you know, all this. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

You're kind of in the middle. That's kind of like that your your career is expanding. Like it's that time, it's a family growth. Most of us are growing in our careers at that time. And it's just a difficult time altogether.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

But here's the word of don't quit. Don't quit just because it's tough. Don't quit because it's hard. His grace is sufficient. You just need more tools. And that's why we have this podcast. That's why we wrote this new book. That's why we have boot camps. We just want to pay for the tools. If you want to use them, use them. If you don't, don't. But that's all you need. You don't need another wife, you don't need another husband. You just need new tools.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

And I love it that you talk about the book because this is your story. You are living out your story right now. In phase two, you know what I mean? You're living it out. The goal is to get to phase three and stay there.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, here's the goal. Don't get stuck in stage two. Fight for stage three. Many couples think that they've fallen out of love at stage two, not knowing there's another stage that they get to grow into.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

And you can't speed like run through spate phase two, like, you know, take, you know, do a marathon through phase one. You're jogging, taking your time. Phase two, you can't get at the sprint line and just like, I'm just gonna run through this one as fast as I can. No. Take your time, enjoy it. But know when you disagree, like, oh, okay, yeah, we disagree right now. I love it. Let me tell you how I feel. Let me really listen about listen to how you feel. Let's get on some common ground here because we're working towards stage three.

Symptom 1: Communication Tension

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah. All right. So I want to stop right here, just pause because we're about to give you some symptoms, and we're also about to give you some solutions. But I want you to grab a note taker if you're in a place where you can, or you might have to play this back later on. But drop in the comments in the chat very quickly. What have you taken out of this so far? If you need prayer for something, you're in a relationship, you need some wisdom, we want to be able to pray for you. Drop it in the chat, drop it in the comments very quickly. But I want to give you what I'm calling calling seven symptoms and also the solution to those symptoms to help you kind of move from infatuation into mature love. Are you ready? All right. Number one is this. And so I'm gonna give the symptom and I'm gonna give like a solution, but I would love to hear your thoughts if you have some as well. The first one, okay, this is how you know your relationship is in stage two and what you can do about it. Number one, all right, here's the symptom. There's communication tension. Okay, here's the symptom. You're always talking over each other. You feel like your spouse never listens. What do you do? Here's here's the solution. Pause and reflect. Okay. Before responding, summarize what your partner said. This is what I heard you say. Is this is this correct? Get ground rules for heated discussions up front. For example, we don't raise voices, we don't use profanity, and we don't have name calling. Okay. Pray together before tackling tough conversations. Here's the symptoms, that's solutions. Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 21:33

No, I love that. Um we we practice this and we've practiced this, you know, just for years now, and it works.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

It works.

Symptom 2: Small Things, Big Fights

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Because sometimes we're not meaning to be evil. Like, I'm not meaning to like be all self of self-absorbed and not listen to what you say. But you just sometimes you have an argument and you feel strongly about something, or like if my feelings are hurt, like, man, that really hurt my feelings. That when you're talking, it's kind of like I hear you saying something that you're literally not saying because I'm hearing it from the lens of being hurt.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Whenever I I like that about what you do, whenever we get into a time that's a little heated, a little uncomfortable, you'll just say, Hey, that hurt my feelings. That language backs me down a little bit because it makes me look at you as a human being. Like, okay, you're humble enough to say my feelings are hurt, meaning that you're not trying to say, well, that didn't bother me and we're just arguing. No, that hurt my feelings. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. And so I appreciate that. Number two, here's the second symptom is that you have disagreements over small things. All right. Here's the symptom. You're fighting about chores, habits, routines. All right. Um, here's part of the solution. Figure out how to ask. Is this about the dishes or about feeling respected? Okay. Choose relationship over being right. Trade your way and my way for our way. You got to come to the place where you turn in your card for I'm right, you're wrong. To let's find out how it's our way, not my way or your way.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

I love that. And I would ask um other questions with it, like, uh, how can I make this better? How can I help the situation? And I would also add in, I love it that you said, like, is this about the dishes or is this about something else? Because more than likely it's about something else. Something else. Because the dishes, like, I mean, that's something that's irritating, you know, sometimes. But when life is good and you're kind of like, okay, you kind of, uh, whatever, I'll just do the dishes right now. So oftentimes there's something.

Symptom 3: Power Struggles

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I mean, we've always used that in communication. Ask questions more than make statements. Remember that. Always ask questions. Hey, what did you mean by that? I I heard this. Is that what you meant by by that? Um, is there anything else bothering what's bugging you? Yeah. Some open-ended questions. They always work better. All right. Number three is this um you have power struggles over big decisions. Okay, here's the symptom. Clashing on money, parenting are major life choices. Okay. Symptom, here's the solution. Decide together on core values that will guide decisions. Use what we call a pause, pray, and plan approach before reacting. So I'm gonna pause. I'm gonna ask Holy Spirit, help me see this, and then we're gonna plan. Bring in trusted mentors or counselor if you're still at a standstill. But that's when we got to deal with power struggles over big decisions.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Well, that you know, as a wife, um I don't really recall us having power struggles. Um, I think every time there has been, you know, the the opportunity for a power struggle, we talked about, let's let's say, for example, how we're going to discipline our kids. I remember a long time ago, I said, Well, we're never gonna, I'm I'm never gonna um spank my kids. And you disagreed with that and you said, This is what the Bible says, and I think, you know, ABC. And I'm like, Well, I don't think that because I was, you know, I think you can abuse your kids that way. So we had some pretty strong opinions. Um, but when it comes to, you know, me being the wife and you being the husband, I kind of trusted you in that area. And I heard what you said, and I saw it in the word, and I said, okay, I'm just gonna submit to what you see for our family, and we're gonna go with that. And I've done that time and time again. And it was like trusting God, then trusting you, like trusting the God in you.

Submission, Wisdom, And Unity

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Well, you're talking about one of the characteristics that's needed for any good marriage, and it's called submission. And submission is needed in the workplace. When your supervisor makes a decision that you don't understand or agree with, well, you're either gonna fall out all the time or you're gonna say, okay, I'm gonna get on board with this. It's needed in the athletics when the coach calls a play and you want to run a different play, and it's needed in the marriage. But I'll tell you what, from a husband's perspective, I understand mutual submission, and I also understand what it means to listen to the wisdom of my wife. So it's not just that you just do everything that I say, it's just that every big decision, I'm listening to your wisdom as well. I just believe that many times God speaks to you through me. So it's almost like we meet each other in the middle because if you are really not feeling something, it's a huge red flag for me. Like, okay, let's put this on the shelf for you. Right. So we never have fallouts about what house to buy, what city to go to, what campus to plant, where we're gonna have another child or so forth. Because we're so much just you're you're believing on the God on the inside of me to lead our team called our family. Right. And I'm at the same time believing that your opinion does matter and I'm leaning to you. But if I have to make a decision, I will. And those times over 26 years, I don't recall a time where you thought something differently, but I had to step up and pull the leadership card. Yeah. Like, no, I'm just gonna do this. That just hasn't happened. And maybe it happens for you, but I think we've given people enough parameters where we've removed probably 90% of the drama if you have the right heart towards the thing. Number four, get this one is comparing and criticizing. Okay. Um, you're in a fight for power stage. Um the symptom is this you're pointing out flaws more than strengths.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

You're comparing your spouse to others, okay? You're you're in you're in a fight. Okay, here's the solution. You gotta adopt what we call the three-to-one rule. For every critique, give three affirmations. That'll change the game. Keep a daily gratitude list about your spouse. Done that? Replace I wish you were this with I appreciate when you are this. And so it's just focus, it's shifting your focus off the things you want to change to the great things that they are, and then affirming and speaking life, and it helps you overcome comparing and criticizing.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Don't compare. Don't do it. Well, all you don't want your spouse to compare you to anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

It's not fair.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Don't compare to anyone else.

Symptom 4: Comparing And Criticizing

SPEAKER_01 27:59

People, it is so easy to just compare somebody's high light to who you're living with, to their low light. That's just not fair. I always say this when you compare, you belittle. So if you compare, somebody's about to be belittled. It's just not fair.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Well, I think when we compare our lives to other people's lives, period, it's just insulting to God.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

I think it is too.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Because God has, you know, he's the alpha and the omega. He's the one that's blessing your life, he's the one who has a plan for your life, called your life. Yeah. And your life is unique, then, is different than anyone else's life.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Very true. And so Number five would be withdrawal or stonewalling. Okay, you're in the fight for power stage. Here's the symptom. You give the silent treatment, been never done that. Avoiding tough talks. You emotionally check out, been there done that. All right. Those things are marriage killers. What's the solution? You got to take short cool-off breaks, 20, 30 minutes, but always come back to resolve. Schedule weekly, what we call family meetings, which is like a state of the union meeting where we come and we talk about the business of the claiters, calm checks in, um, calm check-ins to air issues. Um, practice open door communication even when it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah, just communicate. Don't keep things to yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Number six will be scorekeeping. Here's the symptom: keeping a mental tally of who's done the most or the less. What's the solution? Shift from fairness mindset to service mindset. Ask, how can I bless you today? instead of what have you done for me lately? Remember, marriage is a covenant, it's not a contract.

unknown 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

I think in marriage, we are we marry each other to really serve one another. You know, the what we say on the altar till death do us part, to love and, you know, to have and to hold and to all of this stuff. Like, I am here to serve you as your wife, and you are here to serve me as my husband. And so if there's any person that's gonna outdo, if there's any area that we're gonna outdo each other on, it is in the area of serving.

Symptom 5: Withdrawal And Stonewalling

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah, we do a thing called the bless me contest, and I'm gonna set myself to outbless her. I'm gonna set myself to outbless my wife. And she sets herself to outbless. Bless me. And in the middle of that, joy and uh fulfillment is found in a relationship. And number seven is loss of affection. Here's the symptom: physical touch and intimacy declines. What's the solution? Schedule no phone zones, undistracted connections, intimate small touches daily, a hand on the shoulder, a kiss, a hug. Um work on emotional closeness because soon physical closeness will return after emotional closeness. And so that's what I got for you.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

I love it. Yeah.

Symptom 6: Scorekeeping

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Our hope for you is to take this and run, move your marriage from a three to a five or six to an eight, live at a nine on a scale of one to ten. And so um, we love you guys. We here's here it is. We just released a brand new book called Butterfly Love. You gotta get your hands on one of these. Um inside of it, it's called a modern day love story. It is the love story about Ken and Tabitha, um, two fools who were hopelessly and romantically in love. And we're gonna give you all of the details of how we met, how we broke up, how we got back together, and why we were a marriage that was headed for divorce. But here 26 years later, we're best friends. And inside of our story are all of the principles that you need to move from butterfly love, stage one, to mature love, which is agape love. And so you can get a hold of this, all right, over on our website and um leave a review. If you like it, let us know how it's it's it's been a blessing to you. All right. Hope you enjoyed our our our podcast today. We look forward to seeing you on next Thursday. Um, same time, same place. We'll see you then. Peace.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Peace.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

We were headed for divorce, but today we're best friends. We're Ken and Tabitha. We've been married for 26 years, and honestly, it's been the best 24 years of my life. You do the math. The first two years was absolutely horrible, but now Tabitha, she got herself together and things are much better.

Symptom 7: Loss Of Affection

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Hey, you know that's half true. But we believe any marriage can change with the right tools. In our new book, Butterfly Love, we share our love story of 26 years. It isn't what you think, and it's exactly what you think all at the same time. It's beautiful beginnings, messy middles, and a miracle we didn't see coming.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

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