Doing Life with Ken and Tabatha

How We Saved Our Marriage + Live Q&A With Real Couples

• Ken Claytor and Tabatha Claytor

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i...

Live Audience, Real Marriage Talk

Ken Claytor

Welcome to um Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha. This is going to be a live podcast, y'all. And so for those of you all who are tuning in around the world, we have a live audience at a live conference this year. Come and put your hands together for everybody who is listening, wherever they're listening from. Right? We're Ken and Tabitha. We've been married for 26 years. It's been the best 24 years of our lives.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

From Rocky Start To Tools That Work

Ken Claytor

Y'all stop clapping. You do the math. The first two years was absolutely horrible, but now we've gotten ourselves together. And you know, a lot of people they think that we have a special anointing when it comes to marriage or a special relationship with God. And it's not true. We just have tools. And we have tools that we can pay it forward. And so the thing that changed our marriage wasn't necessarily God that changed our marriage. He did help us. He tenderized our heart. We learned principles from the scripture. But we also got tools. And the good thing about tools is that we can actually share those tools with other people. And so we went from headed towards divorce to now we're best friends, married 26 years. But those first two years was really, really rocky. I actually had a plan to divorce her. And I was pretty serious about the plan. I told my dad about it. And you know, you're pretty serious about divorcing somebody when you start prepping family members. Like I thank you for the wedding gift, but I'm going to give it back because this is about to be over. And I thought that I made a mistake. I really did. I thought that I got married too young. And I just felt like because she had personal trauma that she had not been healed from. You know, I just felt like I didn't see a future. And looking back, I was being lied to. Yeah. And you know what I've learned is that there's nothing new under the sun. The same devil that lied to me in my marriage back then is lying to some of you all in your marriage today. He will tell you that it's not worth the fight, that it's better for you to be single, that the kids will be okay, and that somebody else could love you. And there comes a place where you just gotta say, no.

Tabatha Claytor

Come on.

Ken Claytor

And you gotta stand up against the lies of the devil and take authority over your relationship and move it into the winner circle. And so talk to me, sweetheart. What was our problem and how did we kind of get ourselves out of that pit?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, I love, you know, what I love about us is that we didn't settle. And so what you were saying is like, you know, you you just told yourself, hey, well, maybe I made the wrong decision, I got married too long. What you did was just start making excuses um for how you got to where you are. But you believe God, you said yes to God at the altar, you made conscious decisions that this is what you wanted to do for the rest of your life. But then when it got hard, it's like we settle for, oh, well, I guess I'll believe the lies of the enemy that's trying to Well, I think that's the biggest okie doke, sucker punch of the enemy is that people are getting married and they think it's gonna be easy.

Choose Your Hard Over Easy Idols

Ken Claytor

And um, I remember years ago I went to my therapist, and I go pretty consistently. I haven't in the last few months, I need to get back on rhythm. But I went to him and I was complaining about life. Hey, this is what's happening in the ministry, this is what's happening in our finances, so forth and so on. And he looked at me, he said, Ken, you know what your problem is? He says, You just want things to be easy and you want to be happy. And unfortunately, people who want things to be easy, they overdrink and they overeat because they've made their happiness an idol. And I sat back in my seat and I was amazed at that statement because he says that the Bible never tells us that we're going to have an easy life. Matter of fact, it says the opposite. Jesus says, as long as you're in this world, you'll have trouble, but be of good cheer, I've overcome the world. And he says, Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord shall deliver us out of them all. And so what he says is that even if you have hard days and hard things, you can still have joy in hard situations. Stop trying to make the heart go away. And I feel like we live in a day and time that if it gets hard, we're ready to run. And I tell people all the time, it doesn't matter what you're doing in life, if it's worth anything, it's gonna be hard. You say, I'm about to get married, okay, that's gonna be hard. It's gonna be good at times, but it's also gonna be hard. You say, I'm about I'm pregnant, we're about to have a baby. Okay, praise God, but that's gonna be hard. You ain't gonna have sleep for like a whole three years, you're not even gonna know your name. You wanna start a business, praise God, but that's gonna be real hard. You say, Well, I just want some free time. You ain't gonna have no free time for like 10 years. You're gonna work 70 hours a week until you build something of substance. Stop looking for something easy. And I think we've made an idol out of easiness and an idol out of happiness. And so when things get hard in our marriage, we feel like we made a mistake. And no, it's just marriage. Marriage takes work.

Tabatha Claytor

Because it's hard being married and it's hard being single. So it's gonna be hard either way.

Ken Claytor

Choose your heart.

Tabatha Claytor

Right.

Principle 1: Cut Divorce From Your Vocabulary

Ken Claytor

Choose your heart, you know. And so, anyway, I got like these Ken and Tabitha principles, and I kind of picked five of them, but we want you to send in your questions because we want to, our original goal was just like, let's field a bunch of questions. You know, I a lot of you all listen to our podcast and you go uh went through the boot camp and you're like, you know our stuff. Come on. But I want to talk to you where you are right now. I want to speak over married couples that are hanging on by a thread, those of you all who are in a sexless marriage, those of you all who feel like you just can't be on the same page. I want to speak to those of you all who are in a good place and you're newly married or you're thinking about being married, or you've been married for a while, but I want to speak and answer questions of right where you are. And so if you don't mind, there's a number on the screen above us. If you could just um type in your question. Doesn't matter how real, how raw it is, we want to answer the real and the raw. And I'm gonna share with you five principles if we have time to get through them. And then I want to leave like 20 minutes on the clock just to field questions. And my hope is that we can speak to your right now situation. Is that okay? Is that okay? All right, and so here are like five Ken and Tabitha principles for a better marriage. If you're ready, shut I'm ready.

Tabatha Claytor

Ready.

Ken Claytor

Number one is that marriage is something that you don't get out of alive.

Tabatha Claytor

Really?

Ken Claytor

It's supposed to be till death, do you part. And so I want to talk about covenant relationships a little bit because I think that many times when people get married, I know for me, um, I had a plan to divorce you. And the reason that I did is because I had in the back of my mind, if things get hard, here's plan B. But if you really want to have a successful marriage, you gotta take divorce off the table, and you gotta realize that this is a covenant relationship.

Tabatha Claytor

That's so good. And in covenant is like, this is a relationship that we choose. And like we made the covenant, not just between husband and wife, man and woman, but between husband, wife, and God. I don't know any other relationships like that. So when I look at like um the relationship we have to toward our mother, our father, our sisters and brothers, they don't even have to be like relatives. Sometimes it's just our best friends, you know, since grade school. And we will fight for them. We won't divorce them, we won't leave them. They can be ratchet as they're they could be the worst, but we're still hanging on to these relationships because they're family or because, you know, we've been there for each other. But then when it comes to husband and wife, the enemy and the world will tell us that we have a right to get out of the covenant relationship. It's just not so.

Ken Claytor

You know, one of the things that will really help you, um, it you gotta make a conscious decision as a couple, and you can do this today or tonight when you're you're driving home in between sessions. You gotta make a decision to put the word divorce on the altar. Like I gotta stop meditating on divorce, thinking about divorce, and threatening divorce every time things get tough. Because when you do that, you just bring down the value of the marriage. You you the the marriage is built on something and you're threatening divorce. And so one of the things you have to do is just say, I'm gonna take that word out of my vocabulary because the scripture says that God hates divorce. And we have to hate what God hates and love what he loves. Right. It doesn't say that he hates divorced people. Right. He loves divorced people, but he hates the what God has brought together, let no man put asunder. You know, the first marriage that I ever did was to Nil and Melanie Geis White. Is Melanie here by any chance? Melanie?

Tabatha Claytor

She's around somewhere. She's around here somewhere.

Ken Claytor

This was 18 years ago, all right. And I saw them do something in their wedding that I'd never seen, and we did it at our vow renewal, but I'd never seen anybody else do it. You know, usually at a wedding, people are single Vandros, and they have the unity candles and, you know, all kinds of stuff. They got the family dictionary, and they put the family dictionary in the middle of the wedding. They put it on a on a podium, and hand in hand, they went and got some scissors, they turned to the page divorce, and hand in hand, they cut divorce out of the family's dictionary. They had both been married before, and they said, but this word won't be in our mouth, and it will not be in our home. And I feel like there's some of you all, you need to go home, you need to cut the word divorce out of your family's dictionary. And then it makes you stay in the same house and get yourself together. Would somebody say amen? The second principle that we would give you for a better marriage would be to forgive quickly and also forgive often. To forgive quickly and forgive often. Yes. And I feel like over 26 years of marriage, you've had to forgive me a whole lot. I think you forgive me more than I forgive you because that's just, I don't know. I've always felt like that's just a great quality for you. Can you just talk to me about what is your perspective on forgiveness and what is your perspective on it in marriage?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, well, my perspective on forgiveness is, you know, um, some of you all know my background. And so I came up, I I lost my dad when he was six years old.

Ken Claytor

You when you were six.

Tabatha Claytor

When I when I was, I'm sorry. I said lost my dad when I was six years old. Yeah, yeah. How did that happen? Um, but yeah, so and I so I grew up without a father. I was raised by my grandmother, and um my grandmother died when I was 12. And so then I was raised in a home with domestic violence, alcoholism, where I was sexually abused, physically abused, verbally abused. I mean, I just talked about fighting today. I mean, I grew up fighting and I glazed over, you know, like I was hitting on the funny stuff, but I was fighting grown men. I was fighting for my life at some points. And so growing up with that kind of background, um, I uh in my early 20s um uh was suicidal. Um I was diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety disorder. I was diagnosed for a total of 12 years in my life. And so I was really struggling in life, period. And when I got saved, it was miraculous. Um, so I got saved and I like complete conversion and complete turnaround. Um, I didn't grow up in a family that said, I love you. You know what I mean? I felt completely worthless. But then I found out that there's this God, you know, all God, all man named Jesus who died on a cross for me because I had read stories about Jesus. And then I found out that, oh, he did that. What I read, he did that for me.

Ken Claytor

You made it personal.

Tabatha Claytor

I made it personal. And so I at Salvation, I received so much love, and I felt literally like so thankful that Jesus died for me and that now I could be somebody. I'm not this project girl. I'm not this person who has no worth and no value, used and abused and nobody loves. I'm not that person. I'm a new creation in Jesus. That's where my foundation for forgiveness began is that Jesus, I know what I've done in my life, and you've forgiven me for that. And I was so grateful for what he did for me. Now, I just I don't know. I find it hard for me to hold anyone to um unforgiveness because I've been forgiven. So it's like, I don't care what you've done. Okay, God doesn't care what you've done. Can you change your life? Can you choose from this moment forward to do something different?

Ken Claytor

In the deliverance ministry, when there's demonic oppression and bondage, um, a lot of it's tied back to unforgiveness.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

That there is something that somebody has been through in their life and they harbor this unforgiveness. And the reason that people harbor unforgiveness is because they feel like that person, um, they owe them something. You owe me my childhood back, you owe me the money you stole from me, you owe me something. And so what the scripture teaches is that we forgive other people because God's forgiven us. And if we don't forgive other people, our father in heaven won't forgive us. Right. That's a high bar. And so what it means is that if you really want God to forgive you, you have to be a person that forgives others. Let's bring it over into the marriage relationship. Forgiveness is a choice, would you say? How would you define it, forgiveness?

Principle 3: Stop Sweating Small Stuff

Tabatha Claytor

Um, I would define the fit forgiveness as you said like it it's like somebody owes you something. It's releasing them from a debt. Okay. Like you did this to me and you you owe me something. You owe me like you're supposed to fix this. I want you to take it back, or I want you to hurt the way that I hurt. There's something there.

Ken Claytor

So, what happens in marriage relationship? There can be infidelity, there can be pornography, there can be lies, there can be bad decisions, and you stuff happens in your relationship. How do you apply forgiveness even in those things? Do you feel like you've still applied in those things? Now, here's the deal. I believe that there are some biblical reasons for a divorce, abuse, abandonment, um, adultery. Okay. Those are, and you don't have to exercise it, but you need some counsel. Right. So let's just put it to the side for a second. But other than that, I just feel like how how does this apply to the marriage relationship, this forgiveness piece?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, I I I think you just said like the the fact that unforgiveness is like feeling like somebody owes you something. And in the marriage, you can kind of walk around the house in bitterness and unforgiveness looking like, mm-hmm, like you're just angry. Like if I can think of it's like when I get angry, it's bitter, resentful. Yeah, I'm mad at you because you did something and now I want you to make up for it.

Ken Claytor

It's the opposite of joy and peace and harmony. And I don't know, there's just something about your temperature of your heart, and I guess mine as well. Like we just don't let ourselves walk around the house. Well, we kind of did that. We kind of been there and done that when we were immature.

Tabatha Claytor

But it we got nowhere with it.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. So I would say forgiveness is a choice.

Tabatha Claytor

Forgiveness is a choice to be able to do that.

Ken Claytor

And forgive often daily, all the time. Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

When it comes to owing someone, it's you don't have anything to give me. You you can't give me my peace, my joy. You can't give me anything. Everything that you would owe me, that's what I can get from God. And so I believe that that's why Jesus, what Jesus did, he paid the price for unforgiveness for for everyone. Yeah. And so anything that I need from somebody else, you know, that it that would require a debt to be paid, Jesus has already done it. Yeah. And so as far as you being my husband and me being mad at you and being, you know, just holding unforgiveness towards you, it's just like, I can't do that because the love that I need, okay, well, I can get that from Jesus.

Ken Claytor

What I'm hearing in this is that people just gotta grow up.

Tabatha Claytor

We do.

Ken Claytor

And like if you're if you're a husband or a wife and you're fleshy or carnal or immature, your marriage is gonna suffer. And so my hope is that without pointing anybody out, we can almost do a scale of one to ten in our own heart and mind and say, ten, I'm like Christ. One, I live out of my flesh. And then kind of identify where we are and make some choices during conference to kind of move up. Because it's very, you know, that spiritual maturity, that's what, you know, bitterness, resentment, all of that is just, you know. Let's go to number three though. Here's my third principle: stop sweating of small stuff. Can you talk to me about that? I like that. Yeah, talk to me about that. Because I think that there's a lot of divorce over unreconcilable differences. To me, what that is, is that it's little things that we've made a big thing. And people are getting divorced because well, you don't turn off the light and you leave your socks in the bed, you take them off, and you leave them under the covers and they touch my feet. I remember we had one couple that was so upset at their spouse because they didn't want their washcloths to touch each other when they were hanging up in the bathroom.

Tabatha Claytor

Like you let your washcloth touch my washcloth.

Ken Claytor

Okay, Bobo, um, stop sweating the small stuff.

Tabatha Claytor

Right, right. I think it those are the little foxes. The Bible says that the little foxes spoil the vine. And so, yeah, we can't sweat the small stuff. It doesn't matter. I mean, at the end of the day, and here this, I really learned this. I've been practicing this for years now, but um when I was diagnosed with cancer, I it really hit home in a lot of areas for me to not sweat the small stuff. Because, you know, whether it's leaving dishes in the sink or whether it's the kids coming to ask me questions or, you know, coming in the house and there's shoes all in the, you know, there's four people that live in the house, and there's four pair of shoes just randomly placed you know throughout the house and we're falling over them, you know, like this is the small stuff. Who left the dishes in the sink? And then if there's no dishes in the sink, somebody washed off their dish and they left all of the macaroni and the dried, you know, like salad and all this stuff sitting in the sink. That's why I could smell the sink like five steps away before I actually reach the sink because there's old food. Like, who didn't run the water and turn on the what is that? The disposal thing? Yeah, the garbage disposal thing.

Ken Claytor

All the ladies are like, it's a garbage disposal. I know exactly what it is. I'm smelling it right now.

Tabatha Claytor

Who left the crumbs on the counter? Okay, after you wipe, after you clean your dish, just get a paper towel and walk, wipe the water up. Quit being a slob. Oh my goodness.

Ken Claytor

Let it out, baby. Let it out. Love you.

Tabatha Claytor

I could keep on going. But like call that real life. It that's real life.

Ken Claytor

That's what people should say. When you're going through premarital counsel and they're like, oh, I'm marrying my knight in shining armor, and we're gonna be together forever, and so forth. So um, no, you're gonna do each other's laundry. Somebody's gonna have gas.

Tabatha Claytor

What do you gotta talk about gas?

Ken Claytor

I just want to tell people about the gas.

Tabatha Claytor

And you don't want to just go. No, I heard you the other night. I heard you the other night.

Ken Claytor

I heard you the other night.

Tabatha Claytor

Every morning, every night.

Ken Claytor

In the bathtub the other yesterday.

Tabatha Claytor

That's not true.

Ken Claytor

It is true. I heard it. I was in the bedroom, I heard it.

Tabatha Claytor

I don't think that's true.

Ken Claytor

I know it's true.

Tabatha Claytor

I would say it, but I don't think that's true.

Ken Claytor

I sound I heard the sound of the bubbles.

Tabatha Claytor

That's funny, but I don't think that's true. Listen, no, I will hear him wherever it is. I just feel like it, I don't know if it's a man thing. Yeah, I feel it's part of the thing. He likes to do it. He's proud of it.

Principle 4: Save The Sexless Marriage

Ken Claytor

It's part of it's part of nature.

Tabatha Claytor

The louder, the better.

Ken Claytor

It's part of nature. It's just, why hold it in? What I think about the whole thing really is that, but mine doesn't smell. I'm just releasing gas. I'm just, it's not even gas, it's more like air. Got a little air bubble, let it out, nobody's bothered. Yours.

Tabatha Claytor

That's because I feel like, you know, like if I don't feel well and there's something going on, and I'll say, babe, I don't feel well today, you know. Like I'll try to keep my distance.

Ken Claytor

Wait, when I pass gas. When I pass gas times, when I pass gas, I pass it intentionally. When she passes gas, you're like, ooh, my bad, I didn't know I did that. Oh my god. What was that?

Tabatha Claytor

That's not your case. I will be in the bedroom minding my own business. No one's around. And the moment I happen to do something, here he comes.

Ken Claytor

Like, no, it's not my fault. The other day you were into my closet and passed gas and left.

Tabatha Claytor

Accident.

Ken Claytor

Cody in your closet and pass gas.

Tabatha Claytor

Again, you were not in there. I was in there. I was coming though. You knew I was coming. Why would you come in the closet? I went there intentionally, so I would not be around you.

Ken Claytor

So, why are we talking about passing gas? Because that's real life. And that's what people don't tell you in premarital counseling. And this is people think they get married and they don't realize that I'm marrying a human being.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And we're gonna have some tough seasons. You know, my mom passed away in November. You know, we're gonna have some maybe some sickness and disease. We don't we don't believe for that, but if it happens, we understand we live in a fallen, broken world. It's just real life. Yeah, and so there's too many people, they're throwing away their covenant of marriage just because life is life. And we like to keep it so real just to say, it's just life. It is, it's just gas. Everybody got it sometime, yeah. But our love for each other, that was messed up. My whole closet thing, like go in your own closet. Go in your own closet. Why poop put in my closet? But I still love her, she's still my wife, she's still beautiful, and 99% of the time she smells wonderful. But one percent of the time.

Tabatha Claytor

I want to get scrappy.

Ken Claytor

I know, I know I can.

Tabatha Claytor

I'm feeling really defensive right now. And I'm being a wise, virtuous wife and holding back all the time. You can say what you want to do. I could say.

Ken Claytor

You can say it if you want to. I'm not into it. I don't want to. Okay, well then don't want to because you on something.

Tabatha Claytor

I'm good, I'm good. I do want to say one thing though, before you I know we got my, but I want to say that the the cure for um uh not sweat for sweating the small stuff is being grateful and having a grateful attitude. I started to say that when I was fighting cancer and chemotherapy, there was a lot of things I could, I wanted to clean the house, but I really couldn't. I wanted to be there with my kids. I stopped, like it was easy to overlook the crumbs and the shoes. I just wanted to be a part of life. I was just so happy that I was alive, um, that this the small stuff really doesn't matter. So I wanted to say a grateful attitude um will really help you get over that.

Ken Claytor

That's really good. Um, let me go to number four for the sake of time. And this is one that we could do the whole thing on, but I felt in my heart, like for real, we gotta talk about this one. And the fourth principle that we would give you for a better marriage is have sex often. Have sex often. I feel like we're on a mission to save the sexless marriage. We've done podcasts about this. From a woman's perspective or a wife's perspective, what would you say to a wife that's a little frigid, a little cold, a little not interested in sex? Can you just help a sister out?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, I'm gonna say this and then I'll clear it up. Stop it. That's what I would say. Stop it. Stop it. And now I'll clear it up. I understand there's things that we go through. We go through PMS, we go through menstruation every month, um, all kinds of hormonal changes. Uh, we have pregnancies, um, we grow older. I'm going through menopause right now. There's all kinds of reasons not to have sex, but stop it. Sex is more than just physical. Sex was created for husband and wife. It's how we consummate our marriage, it's how we create soul ties. There's healthy soul ties and not healthy soul ties, godly and ungodly. Sex is a godly soul tie between a husband and a wife. And it's a spiritual transaction that you have with your husband and your wife. And when we stop that spiritual transaction, we begin to become roommates. We grow distance from each other. And this is after 26 years of marriage. If we go for a period of time and not have sex, not have that intimacy, that communion together, we begin to look at each other with the side eye.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, like who are you?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, like it, it so there's a spiritual transaction, I would say to every woman. It is more than just physical. And I would also say this that men and women are created differently. We're created equally and uniquely, but we are different. And um, men, you know, they might have a different sex drive than what we do. Maybe, may not, maybe not. But I think the world has created man, created man like this, you know, Tarzan kind of me want woman, you know, kind of thing. And that's that's really not true. A man has a sexual appetite, and I think that's how God created you. So, as my husband, he has a sexual appetite, and I'm okay with that. It's not something bad.

Ken Claytor

Well, do you have a sexual appetite?

Tabatha Claytor

I do. I have a sexual appetite too.

Ken Claytor

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, but I'm saying when it comes to women and women in our lives, like you know, menstrual psychic cycles, hormonal ups and downs, whether we feel like it really like it, whether we're tired or not tired. That's the problem.

Ken Claytor

A lot of it's just sleepy.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Retired.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, and and we have to find out. I mean, so it's I say stop it because we really have to stop it. Um, and quit making excuses. Do you know what I mean?

Ken Claytor

Well, let's come back to that in just a moment, but let me address the guy. So if I was to ask the same question to me and say, what would my advice be to a guy who is frigid not having sex, I would say, go to the doctor. Go to the doctor. He probably is low in testosterone. Go to the doctor, get testosterone shots, testosterone pellets, do whatever you can do in the natural. Sex is not like if there was a medical condition where there's you can't have sex, the marriage is more than sex. But if there's any possible way that you can get healthy and have sex, it is so important to the marriage. Because without it, you become roommates. And so I'm always amazed, and y'all know I'm about to tell you the truth. I'm amazed at the single people that are having sex and the married people that are not. I'm amazed of how many single people that are not married but having sex and it's sin, and how many married people are married and should have sex.

Tabatha Claytor

That's one of the reasons I say stop it. Okay. Because there's a lot of women, you know, before you got married, it I mean, there you would do anything for this man. Like he, you know, anytime, you know, just go ahead and do that. But now that it's you're married, it's like, oh, well, I feel like this and I feel like that.

Ken Claytor

Well, I feel like you set the brother up. You set the brother up. He done put a rock on it, giving you his last name. Now he's on on the couch, horny and upset. That's that's a bad life. That's a bad life. Come on, man, y'all know I'm telling you the truth. That's not true.

Tabatha Claytor

And I personally, I don't want you to be like that. Talk to me. And I heard somebody say that um life is a buffet. They told the woman she was youngly married, um, a pastor friend of ours, and she said, when she got married, the pastor said, Hey, look, life is like a buffet. Don't send your man out hungry. And I was like, Oh, I like that, but that is something like I ain't sending you out hungry. I'm not sending you out horny. I'm not sending you like, I'm gonna make sure that you're eating good at home. Yeah. Then I don't have to be worried about nothing. I don't care about who I'm not checking your cell phone, I'm not checking your email, I'm not looking at your calendar. I don't care what you're doing out there because I know you're eating good at home. I know there's no reason for you to go anywhere else.

Principle 5: Love God More Than Your Spouse

Ken Claytor

Yeah. When you're eating good at home, you never gotta eat out. I'm not saying like that is an excuse or a valid reason to eat out, but what I'm just, you know, right, right. Listen, I mean, I love your heart set on that because I know it's not forced. I haven't come to you and say, hey, view sex this way. I feel like your relationship with God, I mean, you've been through sexual abuse. You could, you could easily be frigid. You could easily be a person. I remember the first five years of our marriage, we didn't even know what an orgasm was for you. You know, it took us five years to figure out how the difference between a G-spot and a clitoris and what to do and how you function. And at any point in our relationship, we could have easily just been like, that's too hard. But your mindset has been See, here's the thing about sex. The foundation of great sex is the agape love of God. So selfish sex is the worst sex because you go into the experience to get your needs met. So the man comes in to get his rocks off. I like to be as literal as I can, and the woman comes in to just you know, people want to please themselves, but the best sex is when I go in to meet your needs, and you come in to meet my needs. So then I'm coming to serve you and to honor you and to submit to you, and I'm looking how to bring you pleasure, and you come in to honor me and to serve me and to bring me pleasure. And it's at the intersection of agape love, the great intimacy and sex is born.

Tabatha Claytor

That's the Song of Solomon kind of intimacy.

Ken Claytor

There's some freaky stuff in the Song of Solomon. You you really how many of y'all know I love the Bible? I really do. The Bible talks about let her breast satisfy you at all times. I mean, it's just a real, it's a cool read.

Tabatha Claytor

Um that is that your favorite scripture, it's great, it's great.

Ken Claytor

Um, how often do you feel like a married couple should have sex?

Tabatha Claytor

I mean, I don't you know, everybody's different, but if I were to give a prescription, I would say at least once a week. At least I think that's a little, you know.

Ken Claytor

It's quiet.

Tabatha Claytor

I think two to three would be healthy and wonderful, but it's quiet in here.

Ken Claytor

Um the Bible doesn't give us any specifics, but I think that even with the way the majority of men's retostosterone reboots every three or four days, it's probably somewhere three or four days to a week at the very least. Um for the ladies, I've seen a lot of variations in this. You you know the challenge in marriage is that I feel like many times there is a what do I call it, um, when a person is um real frigid. Like a frigid person marries a rabbit. So the person who never wants to have sex gets married to somebody who wants to have sex every day. And so now you guys have to figure out where's the sweet spot in your relationship through communication. So you might be married to somebody who's like they're really good with once a month, and you're an everyday person. Okay, well, where's selflessness at? Okay, let's let's start it once a week. And here's the whole thing with sex. If you got to put it on the calendar, put it on the calendar. Because anything that's important, it needs to go on the calendar. Like every Friday night, come home, take a shower, put on that red dress. I mean, you shoot. Listen, we don't care about kids now. We already know what Friday night is.

Tabatha Claytor

Right.

Ken Claytor

Now, we we we don't flow like that. We like more organic, kind of like just flow.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

But we are very tentative, uh very attentive to people. So I would say, how often are you thinking about sex? Like it.

Tabatha Claytor

I I try to be intentionally, in my mind, I track it every other day. So if I know that I didn't yesterday, I'm looking today.

Ken Claytor

I'm kind of like an everyday, every other day kind of person as well. I would say our libidos are uh very sim uh similar. I think it's changing over age a little bit, you know, but they're kind of very similar. We've kind of got them to the middle place. And I mean, we can go for a season and you know get busy and something like that. But what I'm saying is that you have to go home and figure out your own what I call sex quotient quota or so. Like, where is your sweet spot? Is it a week? Is it three, four days, and just kind of have an agreement. It's not a law, it's not like every other day you know what you said you're gonna do, and now I'm upset. No, it's like every other day I'm looking to serve her in that way. Every other day I'm kind of sports center's on, but I'm looking at her, she's in the bed, and she's not really asleep yet, or she is really asleep, and then okay, well, this ain't the night. We'll come back tomorrow.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, here's the thing that I want to say, and I say this all that I say this all the time to you, but I think that one of the game changers for me and being able to have sex more often is that I was like, look, I'm tired at the end of the day, and that's for like 99.9% of like we just tired at the end of the day, especially if you have kids. You know what I mean? It's just like at the end of the day, you're done. I'm like, why do we have to have sex at the end of the day? I am I'm I'm a morning person. Look, 6 a.m. Like, let's go. I'm ready. Like, you know. And then he says, I don't like the morning.

Ken Claytor

No, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't feel that way.

Tabatha Claytor

You want to make sure.

Ken Claytor

I feel like you're saying that, but it's not as easy as that. I'm uh I'm in the I'm in the presence of the Lord in the morning. I gotta work out in the morning. And I'm gonna do it. You got other stuff going on in in the morning.

Tabatha Claytor

It's not like I'm dreaming at night.

Ken Claytor

Okay, we gotta talk about that later.

Tabatha Claytor

Anyway, there are other times than at night, you know.

Ken Claytor

Y'all gotta get on our podcast and just put in sex and Ken and Tabitha podcast, and we'll get it's a bunch of stuff on there. We gotta move on. But y'all have sex and have fun. God bless you. Number five. Is my last one will be you gotta love God more than you love your spouse.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

So, how did we change our relationship? I just fell in love with Jesus.

Tabatha Claytor

Amen.

Q&A: Rebuilding Communication And Friendship

Ken Claytor

And marriage's ministry. And if you don't have Jesus at the center of it, it's gonna be hard to love, submit, honor, and overcome evil with good if you don't have the power of God in your life. And so I want to jump into some questions because I feel like we only have about 10 minutes left here. This person says, My wife and I are having extreme problems communicating. We hardly speak to each other anymore. We live in a in the same house with no boundaries, several soul ties. What can I possibly do to get the butterflies back or at least start searching for them again? Were you with me? You weren't with me. I know you, I know you.

Tabatha Claytor

I missed the first part.

Ken Claytor

Well, she she's preached, and she's been up here and now doing my best. You're doing your best to stick with us. Stick with me, baby.

Tabatha Claytor

No, but no, I just missed the butt first part uh because I I heard Okay.

Ken Claytor

Well, we gotta echo. My wife and I are having extreme problems communicating. We hardly speak to each other anymore. We live in the same house with no boundaries, and then it says several soul ties. What can I possibly do to get the butterflies back or at least start searching for them again? I'll start off. The first step back into love is is step into like. And many times we found that if you can take a step towards like, you can get back to love. And so, what does it mean to like? You gotta get become friends again. Find something that you like to do. You know, there's certain parameters that every married person needs. We do a weekly date night. Please write that down. I hear so many people making excuses of why they don't do this stuff. I'm talking about like a weekly kids go over here, 20 years, we've dated each other. Um, you need to have a family meeting, either weekly or every other week, where we talk about stuff so nobody's just going off. Okay. Um, but then if you're gonna take a step towards like, try to do things where you can get that camaraderie again. Take a cooking class together, um, go hiking together, things where you can do even new things together. So you're not just going out with your girlfriends or going out with your guy friends to basketball games and different things like that. Um, that's one way. You need some counseling.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

You need some counseling, you need some help.

Tabatha Claytor

Or even a couple, you know, a couple that you know that their marriage is where you would want your marriage to be. And invite them into your life. Ask them to just help you through where you are right now, invite them into your home, have dinner together, and be open, honest, and transparent with them. Because we've been created to do life together. And I think another couple would help you. Another couple helped us.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, that's you know, you have marriage small groups at your church. Um, counseling therapy is needed. But here's another thing you got to believe that better is possible.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Because if you're a person and you're looking at what you're looking at in your house and you're like, I don't even know if this will ever change. You got to get it in your heart that better is possible.

Tabatha Claytor

And I would say sometimes you can be living like that for so long, it just becomes the norm, and you forget that better is available and that better is possible. And I would just say, just turn up for Jesus. I let you know, with us, we we turned up for Jesus.

Ken Claytor

Well, somebody always has to be the hero in the home. So what happens is the husband is in a bad marriage and he says, Well, she don't do this and she don't do that. And then the wife says, Well, he don't do this and he don't do that. Right. And we go tick for tat, meaning that if she did this, then I would do that. Somebody has to be mature enough to say, I don't care if you don't do anything I don't I want you to do. I'm gonna treat you like God's called me to treat you. And I'm gonna do it by faith. And by faith, I'm gonna prophesy the reality that you will be the husband God's called you to be.

Tabatha Claytor

That's right.

Q&A: Spiritual Leadership And Unequally Yoked

Ken Claytor

She won me that way. She treated me like the man that I am now when I wasn't that man. And I was weaponizing sex, and I would shut down and not talk to her for for days, and she would say, You're gonna be a man of God, and she would fix my food, and she treated me like the man that I would become. And uh it just got quiet in here again. I'm 29 years old, this person says, and I'm trying to figure out how to better lead my household as a husband and a father of two. Um I think that's one question. I'm 29 and I'm trying to figure out how to better lead my household as husband and father of two. Um, man of God, put God first. Yes, and everything the Bible tells you to do, just do it. Be a tither, get involved in church, get involved in small groups, study the Bible every day, and just grow. And as you grow in Jesus, you will see everything in your life begin to transform as well. The greatest thing that you can do as a husband is be the spiritual leader of your house. You know, there's real what ladies, would you agree? Like you want you want him to lead spiritually more than you want his money. Am I right? You know, and a lot of guys are out there, well, I'm the provider and I make six figures and I make seven figures, but do you have a prayer life? If you were to ask the average wife, she would rather you have a prayer life than anything else.

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

Um, this person says, Do you have any advice for a wife who's newly saved and is praying for her husband to be saved?

Tabatha Claytor

Yes. I would say treat him. I I think you kind of said it a little bit, treat him the way um, treat him as if he were doing exactly everything that he should be doing with God. Treat him as though he's already saved. Treat him as though he's already the spiritual leader of your home. Um that is how you sow seed. So we're planting seed for a harvest. And so I would pray over him. I wouldn't just pray over him like in my private time, but I would begin to treat him like with honor, with respect. Um, and I think those are the things that I did uh when our marriage wasn't well, and you didn't like me, and you didn't want to hang out with me, and you didn't want to talk to me. Um, you might say something rude, but I was just like, oh, that's okay. And just turn around and I wasn't gonna argue back, I wasn't gonna fight back. I would just go take it to God and I would pray. Um, and so eventually, as you keep doing that, what you're doing is you are warring in the spirit realm for your husband. There are things that are going on in the spirit realm to attack your family generational. Um, and you are going to fight not with flesh and blood against your husband, because that's not where the fight is. You're going to take it up with Satan, you're going to take it up with powers and principalities, you're going to take it up with the spirit of divorce and the spirit of division, right? And you're going to fight that battle. The thing is, you can feel like, oh, but I'm just doing it by myself. If he, if we were together, well, um, you will be that that's the future. Right now, you're not doing it by yourself, though, because you have God. You are not alone. Greater is he who is in you than he who's in the world. So, you know, when you begin to pray and open up your mouth and become into agreement with the word of God and begin to declare as it is in heaven, that's how it shall be in earth, in your house, in your family, you're gonna see change.

Ken Claytor

So good. So good. Man, there's some good, really good questions here, but we're not gonna have time to get through them all. Maybe we'll we'll do a podcast and maybe just go through some of these questions.

Tabatha Claytor

Pick up those questions.

Healing Betrayal, Resources, And Faith Declarations

Ken Claytor

Um I wanna there's one I want to address. Uh, how do you deal with a spouse entering a different religion than you? He changed the Muslims years after we were saved together. Uh there's a scripture in 1 Peter, I believe, it's either chapter 3 or chapter 5. It says that a um a husband can be can be saved by the lifestyle of the conduct of the wife. And uh, as a woman of God, you have more power than you know. And I just feel like you can believe for your husband by walking by faith. Even if you got to pray for him secretly, you pray for his heart. And it's gonna be a battle. It's a battle that God will help you with. And um, I would do things like just anoint the house with oil when he ain't around, pray over his picture when he's not around, declare that God's putting people in his heart and his life, and then treat him um with a respect and an honor that's unto the Lord in faith that he will move into that one day. Um man, so many questions. Um, how do you move past the hurt of betrayal? And what is assumed that if you do therapy that automatically means reconciliation, it doesn't. Um, I think some people can go to therapy just to go to therapy, but the question is can you do the work that the therapy is the therapist has given you? And so, but you can move past the hurt of betrayal. I've seen people get married to each other and get divorced uh from their same spouse twice and get married on a third time and make it work with new tools. And so you need community, you need therapy, you need the word of God, and uh you need a book. You need a book. And we'll be after um after this class signing these books if you so desire. It's called Butterfly Love, a modern day love story by Ken and Tabitha Clater. And if you like rom-coms, I really think you'll like this. I had somebody who read it last night.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, it's an easy read.

Ken Claytor

It took her three hours to read, and she says, I'm about to read it again. And she came with tears in her eyes. She said, We kept it so real. And um, I don't even know what that completely means, but I feel like that there's something in this book that could really elevate a lot of these questions. So I would encourage you to grab Butterfly Love and we're gonna help you get the butterflies back. Um, I I wrote a faith declaration for you, and I think it should be on the board. Do y'all have that prayer? That faith prayer by any chance, if you can pull it up on the major screen. Can y'all take a picture of this? Because some of you all you're in a faith battle for your marriage, and you gotta get a little scrappy. And this is how you stand by faith. Get up every day and declare the word of the Lord. No matter what you see, say what God says until you see what God has said. Life and death is in the power of your tongue.

Tabatha Claytor

Amen.

Ken Claytor

And so let's say it together. Heavenly Father, I thank you for the gift of my marriage. Today, I choose to love my spouse on purpose.

Tabatha Claytor

I recommit my heart, my words, my words, and my actions to you and to them, and I declare what you've joined together, no one can separate it.

Ken Claytor

Divorce is not in my vocabulary, and quitting is not an option. Take a picture of this. Lord have mercy. I speak life over my marriage, I choose peace over pride, forgiveness, over offense, and connection over isolation, my spouse is my best friend. Our attraction for each other is growing stronger with time.

Tabatha Claytor

I thank you that passion, laughter, and joy fill our relationship. Sex is not a duty, it's a delight, it's a privilege, and a pleasure to love my spouse in that way.

Ken Claytor

Our intimacy is blessed, holy and life-giving. I think it's one more. And I am one with my spouse, united in love, united in love, purpose and faith, our home is filled with joy and laughter and grace. I pursue my spouse with passion, with passion, patience, and prayer, and prayer. Lord, bless our union, Lord bless our union, strengthen our covenant, strengthen our use our marriage as a testimony of your goodness and glory. And I declare, and I declare our love will last, our love will be. Our bond will grow, and our best days are still ahead. In Jesus' name.

Tabatha Claytor

In Jesus' name.

Ken Claytor

Put some praise on it if you agree. Put praise on it. We were headed for divorce, but today we're best friends. We're Ken and Tabitha. We've been married for 26 years, and honestly, it's been the best 24 years of my life. You do the math. The first two years was absolutely horrible, but now Tabitha, she got herself together and things are much better.

Tabatha Claytor

Hey. You know that's half true. But we believe any marriage can change with the right tools. In our new book, Butterfly Love, we share our love story of 26 years. It isn't what you think, and it's exactly what you think all at the same time. It's beautiful beginnings, messy middles, and a miracle we didn't see coming.

Book Plug And Year-End Giving

Ken Claytor

If you love rom-coms, romance novels, you'll love this book. Butterfly Love is easy. Keeping the butterflies, not so much. We want to help you fall in love, stay in love, and grow in love. This book right here, this is for you. Get your copy today. If you are a giver, I just wanted to take a moment and say thank you for your generosity, but also invite you into our year-end giving. You know, we end our year in faith. We have a thing that we call Super Sunday. And what it is, is our heart of the house offering. It is our kingdom expansion offering, it's our vision offering that we allow the people who are part of our church to give towards the year end. And we want to extend that opportunity to you as well. If you're a part of our podcast family, you've been doing life with us, and our ministry has been a blessing to you. We would love for you just to prayerfully consider um sowing and giving towards this ministry. If you don't mind, just take a moment and say, Holy Spirit, what would you have me to give? And whatever he asks you to do, we would ask you to do that. You know, for the year-end offering, Tabitha and I, this was actually this year, our 25th year consecutively, giving in year-end offerings over and above our normal tithes. And so we just want to extend it to you guys all throughout December. You say, Pastor, I want to give. How do I do it? There should be a link in the show notes below. All you got to do is go there and whatever amount God's put in your heart, just know that 100% of what we receive this year will help us reach more people next year and change more lives. And more importantly, not only that, we're gonna believe for a financial miracle for you because this is our miracle season. We love y'all. We'll see you soon. Peace.

Contributor

Ken Claytor

Host
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Tabatha Claytor

Host