Doing Life with Ken and Tabatha

The Danger of Casual Christianity

• Ken Claytor and Tabatha Claytor

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Lukewarm faith feels easy—until it costs you power, joy, and purpose. We get honest about casual Christianity, why it’s so common, and how to move from a Sunday habit to a life that actually carries the presence of God. Ken shares his past as a “Christian atheist”—believing in God but living like He didn’t exist—and how that exposed the gap between form and power. Together, we walk through the telltale signs of a casual believer, from private faith and convenience-based attendance to tipping instead of tithing and resisting repentance, and we ask the question that matters most: is there fruit that matches your repentance?

To help you locate where you are and chart a way forward, we break down four levels of commitment—community, crowd, core, covenant—and why planting in a local church changes everything. The core grows the Church through sowing, serving, and making disciples, while covenant multiplies grace through spiritual fathers and mothers, accountability, and honor for God-ordained offices. We explore biblical models like Elijah and Elisha, Paul and Timothy, and Ruth and Naomi to show how covenant delivers double-portion impact. When you’re planted, you flourish: marriages heal, leaders emerge, and your witness stops being theoretical and starts transforming lives.

If you’re tired of a faith that feels nostalgic, irregular, and powerless, this conversation offers a practical path into a Spirit-filled, mission-shaped life. Reorder your identity around Jesus, build rhythms of Scripture and prayer, commit to gathered worship, and serve people you love enough to tell the truth. Casual Christianity is convenient; covenant is costly and worth it. Subscribe for more, share this with someone who needs a nudge toward purpose, and leave a review to tell us your next step.

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i...

Religion Versus Relationship

Ken Claytor

One of my um fears, and it's not really a fear, let's call it more of a concern, are people who are in churches around the world but don't have a relationship with Jesus. And I can honestly say growing up in a traditional, smaller church, I even though I got baptized, I'm not even sure that I knew the Lord because it was more about me being baptized. Meaning that you can come out of certain denominations and you got dedicated or uh as a child, what do they call it, christened. And just because you went through the motions and go to church doesn't mean you there should be a fire in your heart. There should be a passion in your soul.

Tabatha Claytor

Practicing a religion, which is the ritual. We go to church on Sunday, we read scripture, we do praise and worship, we might go to a Bible study, we might do certain things, but and that's all. That's religion. Relationship is communion, spending time with God, talking to God, doing things. The Bible calls us joint heirs with Christ Jesus, meaning that we do work and Jesus is doing work with us when we're praying for the sick and seeing them healed. Um, all of those things just point to relationship.

Ken Claytor

Hey, what's up, everybody?

Tabatha Claytor

Hey everyone.

Defining Casual Christianity

Ken Claytor

So good to have you back joining us for another episode of Doing Life of Ken and Tabitha. I'm pumped about today's sweetheart. Um, I think we got a great one for everyone. If you're new to our podcast, make sure you hit the subscribe button very quickly so you can be the first to get the content whenever it is released. Also, like, share, comment, and that helps um us reach more people with this comment. I believe that with this content, I believe that sharing is caring, and caring is also sharing. And today we want to talk to you about the dangers of casual Christianity. Casual Christianity. Casual Christianity. Um, what does that phrase mean to you? Like how would you define a casual Christian?

Tabatha Claytor

Casual Christian. Uh, someone who um I would say doesn't take their faith seriously, uh, someone who doesn't read their Bible or understand their faith.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, that's a casual Christian. Because I think if you if you read the Bible and you understood um that you would not be a casual Christian, someone who doesn't have a close relationship with Jesus.

Ken Claytor

Okay. Um, have you ever been a casual Christian?

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

You think so? Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

I mean when and how maybe not. Based on what I just said, yes and no. So when I got born again, um I was a baby Christian, but I don't think that made me a casual Christian.

Ken Claytor

I do. I feel like there's a difference between being a baby Christian and a casual Christian. You're right. A baby Christian is like new to their faith and they just need some space to catch fire and to kind of mature. Um a casual Christian to me is someone who's been in it a little bit longer, but it just didn't take for them.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. That's not my personality. I I'm not casual like that, you know. I I yeah.

Ken Claytor

So So what what are some of the detriments you think of being a casual Christian?

Tabatha Claytor

You know, the first thing is that it's a little, it's scary for me because Jesus says that in the end people are gonna say, Lord, Lord, but he's gonna say back to them, I never knew you. Right. So to me, if you if if you are a casual Christian Christian, my question is, are you really Christian? Do you really believe? Only God knows your heart. You know what I mean? And but we know that you know, we see fruit of what you believe. Right. And if there's no fruit of what you believe, right, the the danger is is that you lose eternity.

Fruit, Repentance, And Lukewarm Faith

Ken Claytor

Yeah. Well, that yeah, well, that's probably the biggest danger is that you're not really saved. Because I think the scripture talks about how there should be like fruit that meets repentance or fruit that goes along with a repented heart. So when a person has really repent repented, there should be some fruit and evidence in their life. And sometimes as a casual Christian, you might have like some evidence, but not a lot.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Um, so for me, I was a Christian atheist for about 10 years of my life. I define that as a person who believes in God, but lives like he doesn't exist. So if you were to put me in a lineup with 10 of my closest unsaved friends, I drank like they drank, I partied like they partied, I slept around like they slept around. And that's not like an indictment towards my friends. It's the reality of where I was at the time. Right. They didn't say that they were saved. I'm the one. I said that I was, I said that I was a spiritual person. I believed in God, but you couldn't see it in my life. I owned a Bible that I didn't read. I went to church if it was convenient. I would come to church late and then I would leave early. Um, I never took any responsibility. I never led anybody to the Lord. I was a Christian atheist. I believed in God, but I uh lived like he didn't exist. Bless you, sweetheart.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

Ken Claytor

Bless you. And so when I think about like casual Christianity, that's what it means to be a Christian atheist. I was a Christian atheist, I was a casual Christian. I was the kind of person who So you believed in God? I believed in a God, but I lived like He didn't exist. Okay. So yes, I believed in God. I believed in a higher power, I believed in the big man upstairs, but I didn't live submitted to his word.

Tabatha Claytor

Wow.

Ken Claytor

And for me, it was the most unfulfilling season of my life.

Tabatha Claytor

Right.

Ken Claytor

Because you have a form of godliness, but you don't have any power.

unknown

Right.

Ken Claytor

I knew enough to feel bad about my sin, but not enough to get out of it. Right. And I just feel like there's a lot of people that that's where they are right now.

Tabatha Claytor

I think so too. Like how so I think there's a responsibility for the believer to say, if this is what I believe, it's my responsibility to read the word and find out. If if Jesus is Lord and He has rules for me to live by, it's my responsibility to find out what his rules are and live by them. And I think a lot of people say, Yes, I believe in Jesus, um, but they don't know his rules, or they just came up in a household where they went to church on Sundays and maybe their grandmother said talked about Jesus or their mom talked about Jesus, but they have never known Jesus for themselves. But it's each person's responsibility to find out for themselves.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, I mean, when you say rules, uh rules is kind of like a negative vibe, but there are rules. It's just I would look at more like disciplines and also principles. Laws, principles, yeah, the ways that God tells us to live that is better than what we think.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

So the reason that people will kind of um get in their feelings about rules is because they don't want to be told what to do, which is actually the foundation of all sin. I want to do what I want to do. And it's that sin that put Jesus on the cross. So what salvation is is saying that I give up my will for his will. Right. I give up my way for his way. I give up what I want for what he wants. But for me, when I talk about a casual Christian, um they lack fervency, they lack fire, they lack passion, they lack anointing, they lack understanding, they lack they lack depth, they lack all the good stuff. Like I would rather be hot or cold, but I don't want to be lukewarm. Right. That's what a Christian atheist is. That's what a casual Christian is. They're lukewarm. And Revelation 3 says is that when you're lukewarm, gotta spew you out of his mouth.

Tabatha Claytor

That's the danger.

Ken Claytor

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

You don't want to be spewed out of the mouth.

Symptoms Of A Casual Christian

Ken Claytor

Yeah. And so casual Christians. And so to me, the law of destination, it starts with location. So if you you're like, you first gotta say, I'm a casual Christian before you can ever get set free from it. This is where I am. Then you can start a course, chart a course to where you want to be. I mean, you go into a mall, and the first thing you have to do is go to the mall map and find the big red dot that says you are here. Yes. Because it's not until you find out where you are that you can determine where you want to go. So let's just do a little bit of location real quickly. A casual Christian is a person who doesn't look much different than the world. Okay. Uh, they don't have very deep convictions about stuff. Nothing is that big a deal. Oh, God, forgive me. You know, um, they sit in church and they hear things, but what's preached doesn't move them. I'm always amazed of the people who can be a part of our church like a year or two years. And I'd be like, Have you gone through growth track? Like, nah. Okay, so you've been here for a year, two years, three years, and you never went through growth track. And we say it at the end of every sermon. There's a problem now with how you receive even leadership. So there's something that's happening in your heart where you say, Well, that's not for me. I'm not ready yet. I don't want to do that. There's there's just common symptoms. Um, they plan, they plan church around their life, not their life around church events. So when we got on fire for God, Sunday was like unmovable for us. Like, I'm gonna be in the house of God on Sunday. I didn't miss from out two years at least. Yeah. I believe in going on vacations, I believe in Sabbath, I believe in taking some time off. But the word of God is so rich to me. Like, even if I miss, if that's the place I'm supposed to be, I'm gonna get online and I'm gonna ask people, what did I miss? Because, but what casual Christians do is that, hey, are you coming to this? No, I got something going on. Can you come to that? No, I'm traveling over here. What about this? No, I'm going skiing over here. What about this? No, I'm in Brazil this week. Because they plan their life first and then the things of God second. All right. And so on fire, people plan the things of God first and their life around them. Yes. Um, they treat their relationship with Jesus as personal and private, um, meaning that they're kind of spiritually smug. No, we don't talk about that. No, that's between me and the Lord. That's just, that's just, I don't, I don't do all of that. I know that's really not my personality. And faith in Jesus has never supposed to be private. It's supposed to be a city that's set on a hill that cannot be hidden. Right. All right. They don't want to um to affect change in others' lives. And so they don't really care about other people going to hell. Right. And so casual Christians are like, no, I'm good. I have Jesus. We're by the lake where Jesus.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, my neighbors, they believe that. My co-workers, they believe that, but that's okay. That's them. That's what they believe. This is what I believe.

Ken Claytor

And they're gonna bust hell wide open. And you okay with that? And you say you love them, you're a casual Christian, all right? They tip, they don't tithe, okay? They tip, so they give out of, well, God's been good to me this week, so let me give him a little bit here and a little bit here. It's almost like they tip by acronym means to ensure promptness. We don't tip God, we tithe. We bring God the first and the best. He gives to us, we bring the first and the best back to him. Yes. Casual Christians, they tip. Um, they look like the world, to be honest. They drink like the world, they party like they think like the world, they act like the world. And there's just something about like coming out from amongst them and being separate, saith the Lord. Yeah. There's just something that should be different in the way you walk, you talk, your swag, your aura, so to say. Absolutely. But casual Christians don't have that.

Tabatha Claytor

I yeah, I think Christians stand out. When we're born again, we stand out.

Ken Claytor

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, there's something we're we're the light of the world, the salt of the earth. There's all there's something about the born-again believer. There's something about that person that people say, huh, everyone else is tripping out right now. Why are you so calm? Oh, you know what? Uh you know, this is happening in my life. Can you pray for me? Like people, there's something about you that draws other people to you.

Ken Claytor

So is there anything else that you would see is um these are the attributes of a casual Christian?

Tabatha Claytor

I don't know. I think you hit it pretty well.

Ken Claytor

Um, a few more. Uh-huh. Go ahead.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, I I mean, I was gonna say, I mean, the big one for me was um one of the big ones, it's just not caring about other people. You know, it's just like, you know, we we come home, we come into our garage, we put the garage door down, we go into our home, we mind our business, and then we go back out and repeat it, you know, again the same day.

Ken Claytor

You're a Christian, nobody else knows.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Nobody you work with knows, nobody in your neighborhood knows.

Tabatha Claytor

And when you have a relationship with God, your heart turns toward other people. That's why, like in churches and organizations, we're feeding the hungry, we're taking care of the widows, we're we're praying for the sick. We do all this work in the community because we just care so much about each and every person. Right. Um, and I think that, you know, wow.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, we're not here to condemn you, we're here to inspire you. And I think it's very important to discern the difference because the worst part as an ex-casual Christian, the worst part, and and and as a pastor now for um 18, 19 years, the the worst part is that casual Christians don't know they're casual.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Private Faith Versus Public Witness

Ken Claytor

That that's the worst part. So this first part is just the law of location. Because I feel like if you can locate where you are, then finally you can get out of your casual Christianity and you can get on fire for God and build the kingdom of God and really be fulfilled. But most casual Christians, they don't even know that they're casual.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

Ken Claytor

They really need somebody else to say, Hey, you are missing the mark. This is you're here, but scripture calls us here.

Tabatha Claytor

Right.

Ken Claytor

And there is that question, like, are you really saved? Because many are gonna say unto me, Lord, Lord, haven't I prophesied in your name and done all of these great works? And I'm gonna say, Depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you. That's a scary scripture. I just don't want it to be me. Right. I don't want it to be anybody on our podcast or people that I love. But I don't know. I I mean, I could probably come up with more um uh, you know, characteristics of a casual Christian, uh, maybe preference over obedience. They choose what feels right more than doing what Jesus commands. They would rather change the Bible than let the Bible change them.

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

They have occasional worship, irregular community, they attend church when it's convenient. Um, they have little spiritual family, they got a ton, ton of friends, but their relationship with God doesn't move their friend circle. Yeah. Um, they have low, uh, low intake of scripture and prayer, and so faith is nostalgic, it's not really nourished, it's almost like this is you know, this is just who you are, like your ethnicity. Like, well, I can't help who I am. Well, I was born into a house, my parents are Christians, but do you know Christ for yourself? Right. It's just like if you're Jewish and you were born into a Jewish home. But I don't mean you're a practicing Jew. You know what I'm saying? You there there's a person who's like, well, that's just what I know. I know Christ, but do you know him? Know him. Right. We don't see the fruit of it. Um you have a compartmentalized life. Uh you got Jesus rules on Sunday, but not over Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and Saturday. Uh, there's a resistance to repentance. Casual Christians very rarely respond to altar calls and appeals. It's too spiritual. Casual Christians very rarely have their hands lifted and tears in their eyes in worship. Um, when there's a call to come to the front and repent and to get it right, they think they that's for somebody else. I don't know. Now that I'm saying this, are you saved?

Tabatha Claytor

I think, well, it it reminds me of lukewarm. Casual and lukewarm, they they they kind of mean the same thing to me. They can be the same word. And the lukewarm Christian gets spewed out of the mouth of God. Yeah. And so I think that's that's the point here today. Yeah. Identify whether you are lukewarm. Identify whether you need to know, just change, turn around, start reading your Bible, start going to church.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, I feel like God gave me this topic for this podcast today. And I'm like, why? Why? Why do you think why? I I just feel like in the time of revival, in the time where the harvest is plenty, yeah, and it's the labors that are few. We don't need people who have a jersey, but you're not really on the table. Right. We don't need people who are saying the name of Jesus but not bowing to the name. We don't need people that are just going through the motions, but they're not moving in the power of the Spirit. Right. And and not just because of what we need for the season and time that we're living in, but what you need to be uh fulfilled and what and who you've been created to be. You've been care, you've been created to be a modern-day ark of the covenant. You are supposed to carry the presence of God. Carry the presence of God. Christianity is so boring if you're just doing it on the side. Right. But it's so intriguing and powerful when you're filled with the Spirit and you want to live fully for God. There's no, there's nothing like it in the entire world. We need more on fire.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, I think one question that you would ask yourself if you're trying to determine where am I? Am I a casual Christian? Am I lukewarm? Is do you hear from God?

SPEAKER_04

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

Do you hear God's voice? Does God speak to you?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

You know, when's the last time you went to the Lord for a problem or a question and he gave you the answer and you saw fruit from that? Um, the Bible says that my sheep hear my voice. So you would know if you were a sheep or a child of God, if Jesus was your Lord or shepherd, if you hear his voice.

Ken Claytor

So good. So good. One of my one of my um fears, and it's not really a fear, let's call it more of a concern, are people who are in churches around the world but don't have a relationship with Jesus. And I can honestly say, growing up in a traditional, smaller church, I even though I got baptized, I'm not even sure that I knew the Lord because it was more about me being baptized. Meaning that you can come out of certain denominations and you got dedicated or uh uh as a child, what did they call it, christened. And just because you went through the motions and go to church doesn't mean you there should be a fire in your heart. There should be a passion in your soul.

Tabatha Claytor

Practicing a religion, which is the ritual. We go to church on a Sunday, we read scripture, we do praise and worship, we might go to a Bible study, we might do certain things, but and that's all. That's religion. Relationship is communion, spending time with God, talking to God, doing things. The Bible calls us joint heirs with Christ Jesus, meaning that we do work and Jesus is doing work with us when we're praying for the sick and seeing them healed. Um, all of those things just point to relationship.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, yeah. So, what I believe is that low commitment equals low results, low power, low legacy, low fulfillment. And really, what we're talking about today is it has a lot to do with just commitment.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Location Before Destination

Commitment Levels: Community To Covenant

Ken Claytor

It has a lot to do with commitment. And I feel like for those of you all who are listening and watching, could it be God calling you to higher levels of commitment, which would be higher levels of power, authority, harvest, and also results? I think all of us are being called higher. You know, I do a chart and maybe we'll put it up on the screen for you. And it's kind of these four different levels of commitment. Um in the outer circle, we have what I call the community. In the next outer circle, we have what we call the crowd. In that third circle, we have the core, and then in the inner circle, we have covenant. And I call this like the four levels of commitment because it also has to do with your approach to Jesus. Because the more you are towards the outer circle, the more casual your approach to God is. Now, the outer circle is the community. So, from the church context, let's say we're in Orlando, that's 2.5 million people in our region. That's just the community. So we do light the night, we do New Year's celebrations, we do serve Saturdays, we do local outreach. Why? Because we want to reach the community and we want to ask the Community to come to our church. And the first time guest and the people who come and visit our church, they're the crowd. Okay? The crowd are the people who've stepped into the house of God. And they're there and they're coming. And there's some people they only come to church on Christmas. They come to church Easter. They come to church for a funeral. All of those people are a crowd. Here's the thing about the crowd. Many times we will boast over the crowd. We got 10,000 people in attendance. We got 500 people in attendance. No, that's the crowd. The crowd doesn't build the church. The core built to the church. The next step is the core. So the core of the church are those who tithe and give, those who serve in the church, and those who make disciples. Now, those are the three attributes that really grow the body of Christ: the sowers, the servers, and the disciple makers. Let me say it again. It's the sowers, those who look to give towards the house of God, the servers, the dream team, those who open up the doors and turn the lights on, and those who make disciples, lead small groups, invite people, make disciples. Now, every other thing we do, we can get into deep Bible studies about eschatology and Bible prophecy and Daniel and the four horsemen, and we can get into all this deep stuff. They don't go to church. What grows the church is sowing, serving, making disciples. It's very simple. And the people who do that, they're a part of the core. And the real church, in my opinion, is the core. That's really the people that are connected. Those are the people that build the church. Those are the people who show up, you know. And honestly, the closer you go into the center of the circle, the more fruit you have, the more harvest you have. And the higher you are, the more casual you are. The closer you go to the center of the circle, the greater commitment you have. And if you look right in the center, there's a word called covenant. Okay. And so what is covenant? Covenant is a relationship that you can have that the Holy Spirit reveals to you. And I believe it's invitation only. You can't make people be in covenant with you. They have to have a revelation of what covenant is. Right. Casual Christians are never in covenant with anybody. They're going to come and go, depending upon how the wind blows. They're going to be a part of the community, a part of the crowd, part of the core. But if you're a part of the core, I'm going to give you the deepest part is when you have a covenant relationship. You say, Well, how can I put that in the scripture? I don't know. Elisha had a covenant relationship with Elijah. Joshua had a covenant relationship with Moses. Ruth and Naomi, that was a covenant relationship. Paul and Timothy was a covenant relationship. Mean, what do I mean by covenant? It's something that God has brought together. And it's something that we God has brought this relationship together. It's something that I do not take lightly, and I honor this relationship, and I understand the benefits of the relationship. So the highest form of covenant relationship is uh is husband and wife. Okay. But do you know that when God calls you to a church, it should be a form of covenant relationship. It's not as high as the husband and wife relationship. Right. Okay. But it is a little bit lower, but it's still a covenant relationship. How do you say that? 1 Corinthians 12 says, He sets the members in the body as it pleases him. So my hope is that you're not at your church because your friends came there or because you saw an advertisement. Yeah, that might have started it, but at some point you need to say, God let me there. Right. And if God set me there, it says he sets the members, just like you set a tooth. You don't want your tooth, if you get a tooth set, you don't want it coming out when you're eating a hamburger. If you set a diamond in the ring, you don't want it coming out when you're in worship and the diamond flying across. You want it to be set.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

Ken Claytor

And I think there's a revelation, especially for young people today, that when God calls you to a church, set yourself there. The Bible says that when you're planted and rooted in the house of God, you'll flourish in the courts. And so one of the things that I've done in the church world, even before I was a pastor, is that I transformed, that I didn't just look at my pastor as my pastor. I allowed him to be a spiritual father.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

To me, that's covenant relationship. Now, you say, where do you get that from? Well, 1 Corinthians I think it's like I'm not sure exactly where it is, but Paul said this. He says you got 10,000 instructors in Christ. Yeah. But you don't have a lot of fathers.

Tabatha Claytor

Not many fathers.

Ken Claytor

You got 10,000 podcasters, 10,000 authors, 10,000 preachers on the corner, but you ain't got a lot of spiritual fathers. What does that mean? That when you have a spiritual father or a spiritual mother and there's a divine connection, that's a covenant relationship. It should be fought for, it should be honored, it should be prayed for. I've had the same spiritual father for 24 years. And it's not because our relationship has always been easy. It's just been worth the fight. Um, I believe that when Elisha saw Elijah getting taken in a whirlwind, he said, Father, father, well, he had a natural father. Because remember, he kissed his father and mother and destroyed his 12 yoke of oxen and he went and served. So he had a natural father, but he had a revelation of a spiritual father. When Paul was speaking to Timothy, he said, I beget you in the gospel. That word beget is a King James way of saying, I gave birth to your ministry. And I believe that there are a lot of people walking in a single portion anointing when they should have the double portion, but they don't know how to stay committed to covenant relationships.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And so when Elijah, Elisha saw the mantle fall, he went out and did double the miracles of Elijah because I believe he understood covenant. There was a high level of commitment that was there, though. If you remember the relationship with Elijah and Elijah, he got fired three times. He says, I'm going to Jericho. He said, No, wherever you go, I go. And Naomi said, and Ruf said the same thing. It was like, your people be my people, your God be my God.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

There's this covenant relationship. Like, I'm not here because we got something fickle. Right. I'm here because we got something that's faithful. And so this is what I believe, and it's for who it's for, because not everybody has ears to hear this. But when you have a covenant relationship, all right, that's a very high level of commitment, but it produces a high level of power, a high level of results, a high level of influence, and you will not be a casual Christian when you go to the center of that circle.

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

The more you go towards the outside, the less your commitment is, the more casual you are. And the problem that we have in the church world is that there's too many people sitting in the crowd. What you're gonna preach for me today is something good. And if I don't like it, I'll go down here over here. And if you don't let me sing and do what I want to do, I'm gonna go over here. Or maybe I'll just be by bedside because I'm a Christian. I'm spiritual. Yeah. And you're by yourself and outside the will of God. I just feel like we're in a season where God is looking for people who are covenant-minded. That's an invitation. Nobody can make you do that. That's just based upon your majority. The relationship I have with my spiritual father, mentors, overseers is based upon my spiritual majority. I went to them. I submit myself. You know what I'm saying? Right. And I just feel like when we get more people that understand that, we won't have casual Christianity. You you don't shake nations. You don't move mountains with casualness. You do it with high levels of commitment. Right. Talk to me. What you got?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, well, I love what you're saying. You're talking about, you know, not doing life by yourself, not walking with God. I mean, yes, we will, we have our own private walks with God, but God, we are God's family. We're his sons and daughters. And when he he designed the church, he set up the church and told it how to function and all of that stuff. And so when we come together and we join a church, we are coming, we are part of something that's greater than ourselves. The Bible says one can chase a thousand, but two can put 10,000 to flight. The Bible says we're two or three touch and agree that we have whatever it is that we ask. And there are power, there's power in numbers. And I always think, you know, like so where God calls you, that house that God calls you to and plants you there, it God knows He has a plan for our lives. He knows you, He knows your personality, He knows your spouse, He knows your children, He knows what you need, and He planted you there for a reason. What I've found is that whenever, you know, we're pastors now, but when we joined our, you know, our spiritual mom and dad, when we came a part of their church, we just went all in and began to serve and to grow. And we found out that the anointing that was on their lives, we had access to when we came into that covenant relationship.

Ken Claytor

It was almost like our anointing plus their anointing, it almost created a double portion. Yes, a double whatever. That's the best way that I could.

Tabatha Claytor

It was like we were partakers of grace, of the grace that was on their lives. And so um it it empowered us to be in, you know, who God called us to be. And now we're leaders, and now we pastor a church. And what we find is that when people come, you will see new people. They come one way, but when they stay, they just develop into these um like just fruitful people. But what are they doing? They are tapping into the grace that is on our lives. Not that we're special, but this is what God called us to do. So when they come to a live church, man, um, if they come in depressed, they don't stay depressed, they get healed. Um, if they come in sick, they get healed. Um, marriages, people join our church all the time and their marriages are struggling. They get their marriages together, their children. So there's so much fruit that comes off of their lives whenever they join that covenant relationship. Uh, it's so much more than being a casual Christian. It's so much more than being a part of the crowd.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

And that's by God's design. It's not an accident. Yeah. God made it. So when you get plugged in, you partake of all of the goodness that He has.

Ken Claytor

I mean, I could go on and on for days about this. I mean, I teach a leadership school about this, I teach leadership in other churches about this. Um, I do a whole class on covenant. Um, it's something that um I feel like is missing in a whole generation, and that's why they're lacking power. Um for me, you have to divorce yourself from needing convenient Christianity and comfortable Christianity to have no casual casuality in your Christianity. You know what I'm saying? So convenience is like I need this to be convenient for me. Right. The cross has never been convenient.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

What Covenant Looks Like In Practice

Ken Claytor

I need to be comfortable. God has always called us out of the boat, he always has dropped us in uncomfortable situations so that we can learn a different aspect of who he is. Right. So if you're a person that needs everything to be convenient and you need to be comfortable, you can never be Christ-like. Right.

Tabatha Claytor

I think a lot of people stay lukewarm or stay casual Christians because they never identify themselves first as Christian. They might identify themselves as an entrepreneur, they might identify themselves as an athlete, as a, you know, a musician, as a mom, a husband. They might identify themselves as the color of their skin, their ethnicity, where they're from, um, their last name. Wow. But the first thing is first, seek you first the kingdom of God. I mean, the first things first is that you are a believer. You are a Christian, you are a child of God, a son of God, a daughter of God. Um, and I think when you identify yourself as that, it'll change a lot of things because now you might have to, you know, not hang with the same crowd, or you might have to find friends and you have to lay down things. All like everything that you just said, you have to lay down things. You have to try something new now. Um, but it all starts with identifying as a believer. You identify as a Christian.

Ken Claytor

Man, uh listen, this is what I have in my spirit. Um, those of you all who are watching us, uh, we thank you for doing life with us. Um, if you don't have a church home or a person that you can say, that's my pastor, I would really encourage you to find that. Don't be that Christian that says, I'm spiritual and I'm good all by myself. The scripture says the opposite. It says, Don't forsake the assembly of ourselves together. It actually says that pastors have to watch over your soul as someone who gives an account. Hebrews 13, 17. It says, Let them do it with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. And so the scripture consistently can talk about this accountability and the spiritual covering. It says in Galatians 6, it says, We're under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father. Satan loves you to do your own thing. God loves accountability. Now let's just deal with the fear portion. That's not saying that you need to stay in a relationship with someone who's abusive. Um, if there has been moral failure, okay, find another church, find another pastor, move on with your life, but don't throw the Bible out and now approach a new church like, well, I don't know if I want to get too involved because I went through this. We all done been through things in life. We've been called to walk by faith and not by sight. And none of those things change the principles of the word of God. Right. God is raising up a Davidic generation. Now, this is who David was. David was the guy that was anointed king when Saul was still in the office, and Saul was trying to kill David, and David came upon Saul in a cave and could have defended his own life, cut David, cut Saul's robe and repented that he cut his robe, meaning that he touched the anointed of God. And it wasn't because Saul was perfect in the office, it was just that he was in an office that God has established, and David was going to honor Saul as unto the Lord. Listen, the people who are in the offices are not perfect, but the office is. And when you stop judging the people who've messed up in those offices, and you become a Davidic person and you honor the offices unto the Lord, God will always honor you. I've been in ministry almost a quarter of a century, and I've seen people come and I've seen them go. And the people who are the less effective in their Christianity are the ones they're just floating around, spiritual people. I got a relationship with Jesus as I travel the world by the lake. But you are not moving nations and countries and atmospheres because we only do that when we lock arms and we stay submitted and we and we become real committed. I would encourage you to ask the Lord and just say, Lord, who are the covenant relationships that I should have in my life? And I would ask you to fight for those relationships, sow into those relationships, serve those relationships, and be a partaker of a double portion of the anointing. And you heard it first here. And so, anyway, we pray in Jesus' name that those of you all who are listening and watching will move out of casual Christianity into committed Christianity that we also call covenant-based. Yes. Christianity. We're out of time for today. I hope you enjoyed today's podcast. I know that it was challenging, and the hope is to challenge you to be more like Christ. We love you so very much. If you're new to our podcast, make sure you hit the subscribe button or the icon so that you can be the first to get the content whenever it's released. We drop a new episode every Thursday at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. If you're ever in Florida, come worship with us at a live church. We do a yearly conference called a live conference. You can get your tickets now. We would love to see you there coming up in November of this year. But also, if you're looking for a place to worship, you're in between churches, you don't know where to go, you can join us online every Sunday at 9 45 Eastern Standard Time. You can find the link in the show notes. And just remember, you're not alone. We're praying for you and we're here with you. And until next time, we'll see you soon. Peace.

Contributor

Ken Claytor

Host
Head Shot

Tabatha Claytor

Host