Doing Life with Ken and Tabatha

5 Reasons Christians Should Re-Think Alcohol

• Ken Claytor and Tabatha Claytor

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What if the line between “okay” and “too far” isn’t a line worth walking? We open up about our 24-year sober journey and the moment a mentor reframed the question from “Is it allowed?” to “Is it wise for a king?” From there, the conversation turns honest and practical—how alcohol blurred judgment, complicated leadership, and stole the very peace it promised. We dig into Scripture’s balanced view, the call to be sober-minded, and why “living beyond the gray” can protect marriages, ministries, and mental health.

We also face the facts. Alcohol is a depressant that breaks sleep, raises cancer risk, and shows up in far too many assaults and crashes. Even modest use can fog thinking and dull discernment. Meanwhile, culture is shifting—low and no-alcohol options are booming, and younger generations are choosing clarity. For us, abstinence wasn’t loss; it was abundance. Joy got brighter, community got safer, and our witness grew stronger. We learned to host gatherings where the recovering feel welcome and leaders model restraint that builds trust rather than testing boundaries.

If alcohol is your gray area, try a simple experiment: a 30-day sobriety challenge. Let your body reset, watch your sleep improve, and see what happens to your focus, mood, and mornings. At the end, reassess with clear eyes. You might discover, as we did, that the tradeoffs aren’t worth it and that the life you want thrives without a drink. If this resonates, subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with someone who needs a nudge toward freedom, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your next 30 days could rewrite the next 30 years.

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A Touchy Topic: Alcohol And Faith

Tabatha Claytor

I I've seen life for the last twenty-four years without haul alcohol. Um, but before that I've seen life with alcohol, not just in my own life, but in, you know, family members, in other people, in friends, in college, you know, all of that stuff. And alcohol has never done anyone any good. It's always like, okay, you wake up with a hangover. It's like, oh man, I was so drunk and I did this. I slept with that person. Oh, I said this. I got into a fight. I cussed this person out. I got pulled over. I got a DUI. I got fined. I got thrown in jail. I don't have any good stories to tell you about, you know, alcohol and what benefit it brings.

Ken Claytor

Hey, what's up, family? Hey everyone. So glad to have you guys joining us for another episode of Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha. Um, I'm excited about today because I believe at the end of today there is going to be a freedom moment, a healing moment for some of us. And I believe that today is going to be challenging for some, but I don't want you to turn off yet. I would love for you just to give us a moment and let's have a conversation about alcohol and about drinking, especially from a believer. And um, we're not gonna project our convictions necessarily, but we do want to share with you why we believe what we believe and use that as maybe groundwork for what God might want to do in you. I think that there's gonna be some things we share today. That's just a different perspective. It's not like a common perspective, but it's something that's really brought benefit to our life and to a lot of people that we lead. And so don't touch that dial. Join us all the way to the end. Um, share this episode, comment. We want to hear from you, and we want to hear what your experiences are. So today's episode is entitled Five Reasons Christians Should Rethink Alcohol. And I said rethink.

Tabatha Claytor

Rethink.

Ken Claytor

Um, why do you think this is such a such a touchy topic for some?

Is Drinking Sinful Or Just Unwise

Tabatha Claytor

Um, well, it's it has to do with alcohol. And I think that that's a touchy topic altogether. But why um because if you like it, you like it, and that's what you want to do. Uh-huh. And don't tell me about it because that's what this is what I want to do.

Ken Claytor

Um, but then I also think it's very um normal culturally when we actually associate alcohol with a good time. And so sometimes if people say things that could limit our alcohol loose use, we might feel like, man, um, are we gonna be able to have a good time? Right. So we associate it with birthdays, we associate it with the New Year's Eve, we associate it with um other things like that.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, a celebration.

Ken Claytor

It's a celebration. So I know you had that perspective as well back in the day.

Tabatha Claytor

But I don't anymore.

Ken Claytor

You don't anymore.

Tabatha Claytor

I now it is I don't like it.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. Well, I believe that even though it's a touch touchy topic, it's definitely a topic that we need to hit on. This is what I believe about our audience. I believe our audience um are people from different nationalities, cultures, backgrounds, and ages. But I believe that the majority of our audience just want to find God's will for them.

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

And since their heart is open, I just feel like God's anointed us to talk about some touchy things and just bring like a kingdom light on it. So let me start off by saying I don't believe that drinking is a sin. I believe that drunkenness is a sin. Um, so I'm not gonna be trying to say that drinking is a sin.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

But just because something's permissible doesn't mean that it's necessarily wise. I'm gonna share stories and some statistics today that's quite alarming. Uh-huh. Okay, even for the social drinker, even for the casual drinker, uh, just a perspective. Um, so even though it's not a sin, you are free to drink. If that's what you decide to do, God bless you, do whatever you want to do. But just because it's permissible, doesn't mean that it's not a good idea.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, I just, you know, and m my question to you is you don't believe that drinking is a sin. Right. And I don't either. But you believe that drunkenness is. And and I agree.

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh.

Tabatha Claytor

Here's my issue.

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh.

Tabatha Claytor

How do you tell the difference between drinking and drunkenness? How do you tell the difference between is tipsy okay, but drunkenness isn't? Is drunken tipsy? Is it the beginningness of tipsy uh of drunkenness?

Ken Claytor

It's what I call a gray area, and that's why it's hard to call out or call safe. And that's the danger of it.

Tabatha Claytor

It's like it's how do you know when you're well uh I'm about to get drunk, let me stop.

Where’s The Line Between Tipsy And Drunk

Ken Claytor

Those who will lean more on the gray side and the liberty side would say, Well, that's between me and God to find out. It's okay. You know what I'm saying? Those of us who would lean more on the discipline side and the safety side would say, I don't even want anything in my life that would even push me close to the edge of sin. So if sin is a line, what many believers like to do is tiptoe on the edge of the line. Um, I like to draw my line way over here. So even if I cross the line, I'm nowhere near sin. Yeah. And it just depends on your worldview or your biblical view and how safe you want to live and what you feel like you carry, and what you're willing to do to protect what you feel like you carry. And now, this is what I personally believe is that alcohol is hurting more people than it's helping. Bottom line. Um, it's hurting more people than it's helping. There's nobody that goes out and drinks and says, Man, I feel closer to Jesus than ever. But I know a lot of people that go out and drink, and something happens where they fall away from Jesus.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

They mess up their marriage, they're not sober-minded, they make a bad decision, they're with somebody they shouldn't have. They used bad judgment. They used bad judgment. So the truth is, is that is it hurting or is it helping? It's hurting a lot more people than it's helping. Even as it relates to the body of Christ, um, I've noticed that even people in key leadership positions um who start off drinking, maybe they have like a half a glass of wine, and then that half a glass turns into a full glass, and then the full glass turns into two glasses, and then two glasses turns into a whole bottle. And then what many people don't know is that they end up going into rehab. And I know people personally that are in ministry, had to go through rehab and come out of rehab. And I think it's because people don't understand that when you're underweight and warfare and you're using um alcohol to numb the pain, or at the end of the day, just like uh have a refresher, or at the end of the day, just take the weight off a little bit. Well, then you'll start to put more and more on that. And even though it's permissible for you to do, because it's it's it's it's almost like a stronghold, it can be a stumbling block, it can turn into something. It's habit forming. Yeah, becomes an addiction and habit forming. And just I've seen people just mess up their life and ministry and their marriage just from a glass of wine going too far. And so what's your thoughts about that? Anything else?

Tabatha Claytor

Um yeah, I agree. I think it's it's that thing that anything that you kind of need to unwind or you need to um be in a certain mood or whatever, I don't know. I don't know if it's especially when it comes to alcohol.

Ken Claytor

I mean, you can say I need a piece of chocolate, and I'm sure that that would have negative effects on your glucose level after a while. But alcohol is just different.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, all of the tests and things and studies that are coming out now, it's just it's just not good for you at all.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. Now I'm happy to say that I've been sober for 24 years. I'm happy to say that we've been sober. Yeah, because we stopped drinking at the same time.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes, the miracle is that I've been sober for 24. That's the miracle.

Ken Claytor

Well, why is that a miracle to you?

Tabatha Claytor

Because, oh wow. I didn't. I remember when we first stopped drinking, you were like, hey, I think you know, I'm not gonna drink alcohol. And you weren't even asking me not to. You were just saying that you weren't going to drink.

Ken Claytor

I don't remember the conversation, so that's interesting. So I I didn't say, hey, we're gonna stop drinking. I just said I'm gonna stop drinking.

Tabatha Claytor

Right. And you were sharing with me why and and and it was very convincing. But I I mean, I'm just that person that I was just like, well, if you do it, I'm doing it. You know what I mean? I took it as a we. But my object my objection was, well, how are we gonna have fun? You know, what are we? I just couldn't see life without alcohol for me because I was I mean, alcohol was in my house all the time. And so, you know, I grew up in the projects, and there's some times that we didn't have food in the cabinets, but we always had beer in the cases of beer in the closet. And so, I mean, some that case would be from the floor to the ceiling, cases of beer. And so I just didn't understand, you know what I mean, what we could do how life would be without alcohol. I just thought that was a part of life.

Ken Claytor

And and tell me if I'm wrong, did you say, well, what are we gonna do for New Year's? Did you say that?

Tabatha Claytor

I said, What are we gonna do for New Year's? What are we gonna do for like our birthday and celebrations?

Ken Claytor

So you thought it was like almost impossible to live life without alcohol.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, I thought that's where the fun comes from.

Ken Claytor

That's where the fun comes from. Looking back, I know that you feel differently about it now. Yeah, but for someone who's stuck there now, and like I can't even see, I can't imagine me saying no to alcohol forever. I'm I can put it down for 30 days, maybe 60 days, but I can't see. What would you say to that person?

Personal Histories With Alcohol

Tabatha Claytor

Ooh, I learned that there's so much more. There's a greater joy outside of alcohol, outside of being tipsy and drunk. I was one of those people that, you know, I didn't like, I smoked marijuana, but I didn't like to. I did it under peer pressure. Okay. You know, and um I remember like the few times that I did, I didn't like it because it messed with my mind. I didn't like, I kind of like sitting there and feeling like, oh my gosh, I can't move, or it just freaked me out that I didn't have control over my mind. And um, so I, you know, I didn't like to do that. I find now on the other side of not drinking alcohol that it was that same kind of thing. Alcohol had this control on my mind and on my body that just it felt out of control. And now I never want to go back to that state again. I never want to go back to an impaired kind of like where I don't have control over my thoughts and my actions, you know, what I say out of my mouth.

Ken Claytor

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, I just don't want to go back there.

Ken Claytor

Now, and I hear, and just so we can paint a clear picture for everybody. So when we met, um, I mean, drinking was the norm. I mean, I would say that you were a little bit more addictive to where I mean, you would probably not go to class but drink. Yeah, I would drink a drink. How many days a week would you drink?

Tabatha Claytor

Um five.

Ken Claytor

Five days a week.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Okay. Um I don't know how many I would drink a week. Let's just call it two or three. But I was definitely more of a social drinker. I wouldn't put myself in the attic piece. I was more of a social drinker. I really only remember getting drunk one time. I mixed this tangrae and this orange juice together, and it was like the spin, the room was spinning around. It was like crazy. I was like, okay, let's not not do that. I've always been like super controlled. Like, I'm just gonna hit the bar, play the star, but I'm not gonna take this thing too far. But I remember you with your crazy self would get so drunk. I remember one night I came in and you were you were passed out in my bathroom, and your body was wrapped around my toilet like in a U shape. So and I was just hitting you, and you would not wake up. Oh my god. You were just inebriated, you were just gone, you know. And so fast forward, we get married and we come to the place, um, we find a church, and then I say I started drinking at 14 years old. Right. So, like I But but that's good to say because there's a lot of people that drinking is a part of their culture. That's all you're saying. Yeah. So Italians, um, what whatever your uh your background, Jamaicans, you can say, well, this is part of my culture. Right. But there is a culture of the kingdom that can break your natural culture if you if you if you desire. And so it was a part of your culture. So in your mind, you thought that life couldn't be lived without it. Right. So here I come, and as soon as I get like rededicate my life to the Lord, I'm like, hey, drinking is not what I want to do. What were you thinking? So you already told me you were like, you didn't think it was possible, but anything else? Were you like, hey, I'm gonna go with you, or did you struggle for a while?

Tabatha Claytor

I wanted to do it. I I because I was on this walk, this new thing with God as well. I'm like, whoa, you know, the Lord, you know, I didn't know all of this stuff, and I'm reading the Bible and I'm wanting to be a true disciple of Christ.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

And so when you explained this to me and we're looking at scripture and stuff, I was like, I'm in. I'm going to do this. But in the back of my mind, I was just like, I don't know how.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

I don't know how I I didn't even know if I could. I I thought that I wouldn't be able to do it. And it was so easy. We just never drank again. It just was easy.

Ken Claytor

It was But why was it easy for us though? Because I know that it's not necessarily gonna be easy for everybody, uh-huh. But I think when you decide to do something for God, I felt like there was something we were getting from alcohol that we should be getting from Jesus. Yeah. There is a joy that, you know, a lot of people try to get from wine, I want to get from the new wine. I want to get people try to get high, I want a Holy Ghost high. I just feel like I've never felt like I've missed any. Matter of fact, it has been one of the best decisions I've ever made in my Christendom was to not drink.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

I'm sober 24 years, and I'm just telling everybody, it's one of the best decisions.

Tabatha Claytor

I am so glad you, as my husband, made that decision because I wouldn't have made it on my own. And I just decided to follow your lead. And if you hadn't, I might be addicted today. You know, I didn't know.

Ken Claytor

Wow. Well now, when I say that, do you agree that it's one of the best decisions you ever have? Absolutely. Why?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, because of what I just said. Um, I, you know, addiction ran in my family. I have family member after family member. Yes. I broke the family, the uh generational curse of alcohol for joy and happiness.

Ken Claytor

Yes. And fulfillment and peace.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

What else?

Tabatha Claytor

And you remember when you met me, I'm dropping in and out of school because I was severely depressed, taking antidepressants, drinking alcohol on top of that. I mean, it was a problem for me. Um, and so because you made that decision, I chose to follow. I mean, for the last how many years? 24 years, we have not drank. I'm I don't have problems with addiction. I don't have problems with drinking a whole lot of money.

Life Without Alcohol Becomes Possible

Ken Claytor

I've saved some brain cells, I've saved some bad decisions. It's been the I would tell anybody, like, listen, living a sober life where you get everything you need for Jesus, it's actually the best way to live. Yeah, I'm not gonna say this way you have to live, or you're a sinner if you don't live like I live, but I'm just telling you, you come up higher if you want to. Try this one out. Right. This is how it happened for me. So I'm a casual drinker. I'm drinking some wine here and there. I like White Russian, Kahlua, vodka. I uh so I'm in church. I get invited to a church because I like cake. I came because I like cake. The people who invite us to the church, they say, if you want to be a part of the church, you should go through new partner's class. Four weeks into the church, we say, we're gonna go through new partner's class and we're gonna be an official part of this church, kind of like Growth Track. And for whatever reason, back then, it was on a Saturday for three hours, and they would tell you all about the church, where it was going, and then at the end of the class, the lead pastor was there, and you could ask him any questions. So it was in a new partner's class. He know me, I didn't know him. And they said, It's question time. So I raised my hand in my early 20s, and he says, What's your question? I said, Um, Pastor, I just want to know if is it okay if I I keep on drinking? I was like, I have a glass of wine here and there. What is your thoughts?

Tabatha Claytor

Uh-huh. And he he first You know what the people in the audience did though? Hold up. I want to say, because I I was like, don't be doing that to my husband. They were like, mmm. The whole audience said, as if your question, you shouldn't have asked it.

Ken Claytor

Oh, yeah?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Well, whatever with that. But I asked the question, and this is this first thing out of his mouth was like, Well, you ain't gonna go to hell if you drink. And it was a joke, and then he turned the hums to laugh. Everybody started laughing. And then he stepped there and he put his head down for a minute. And it seemed like three minutes. But then he said this. He looked at me and he says, Well, the Bible says that kings and princes should should sustain from strong drink. I view myself as a king. I guess it depends on how you view yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Ooh. I was like drunk.

Ken Claytor

Like drunk and leave the stage. He didn't give me a law, he spoke to my destiny. Yes. He spoke to the king on the inside of me. And he says, I guess it depends on how you identify yourself. But if you view yourself like I view myself, well then you might want to put that on the altar. So I left out of that meeting and I said, Well, I ain't gonna drink no more. Now, I've never been the kind of person that you gotta wrestle me to live holy. So the Bible says in Hebrews, I think it's 6.12, follow them that through faith and patience have inherited the promises. That word follow means to imitate. So I don't believe that God's called me to a church and given me a pastor for me to say, Well, you can do whatever you want to do. No, I'm looking at you to imitate them that through faith and patience have inherited the promises. I left that meeting that day and says, Well, if God has been good enough for you and you look like you're doing pretty well, I'm just gonna do what you do. I didn't try to go into the Bible and talk about how Jesus turned water into wine and try to defend the fact that it was fermented or not fermented drink and try to do all this deep Bible stuff. No, I ain't that deep. Like the Bible says the kings and princes should sustain from strong drink. I look at myself as a king. My pastor ain't drinking. All right, let's go home and see if we can get the wife on board. We ain't drinking no more. And 24 years later, it's the best decision that we ever made. It's just like just simple faith, just humble child-like stuff. But man, it's been so good. You know, what do you think about that story when you hear it 24 years ago?

Tabatha Claytor

Uh, it's funny because I kind of I know it, but I forgot about it. And yeah, it's just to see the transformation.

Ken Claytor

Uh-huh.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, it's it's good.

Why Sobriety Felt Surprisingly Easy

Ken Claytor

So for me, here's a few things that it not drinking has done for me. It removed the temptation to overindulge. So it's always like you said, what's the line between drunkenness and buzz? You know, I've removed that temptation. I don't care. Number two, it allows me to always be sober-minded in my decision making. And we got to put a premium on just being sober-minded. I got too many big decisions. Million, multi-million dollar decisions. Decisions that could enhance my family or destroy my family. I need to be sober at all times. Number three, it gave me a testimony to witness to other people on the delivering and sustaining power of Christ. It's one of my greatest privileges. I go to restaurants now and they'd be like, Well, it's happy hours, sir. And they give me the menu, and I say, Well, I don't need it because I came in happy. And then I love to tell them, yeah, I've been sober 24 years. And they be like, Wow, tell me more. Yeah. And then I just get to tell them about the goodness of God.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

Um, number four, it makes me stand out from the norm. And I do believe that there should be something in the believer's life that you're just different than the world. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And number five, it saved me a ton of money. Alcohol is expensive. I don't want to pay$10 for the Bahama mama. I want to give me some water, homie. What's your thought about any of that?

Tabatha Claytor

I mean, I I love it all. It's it's all very true. Um, I I love the I was it the first one where there's just the joy. I mean, you already have a high, you already have a joy. You came in happy.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. And um, you know, and I run our church like that too. Like we have so much dancing in our church. I couldn't imagine adding some wine or some alcohol with that. It would look straight up like where we used to party at back in the day, DC Live or the Ritz. Well, I've seen y'all know what I'm talking about.

Tabatha Claytor

I I've seen life for the last 24 years without hauling. Alcohol. But before that, I've seen life with alcohol, not just in my own life, but in, you know, family members and other people and friends in college, you know, all of that stuff. And alcohol has never done anyone any good. It's always like, okay, you wake up with a hangover. It's like, oh man, I was so drunk and I did this. I slept with that person. Oh, I said this. I got into a fight. I cussed this person out. I got pulled over. I got a D UI. I got fined. I got thrown in jail. I don't have any good stories to tell you about, you know, alcohol and what benefit it brings.

Ken Claytor

Well, I'll tell you what the Bible says. Um the Bible affirms it in some ways. It said, you know, wine exists in God's good creation and is sometimes pictured as a blessing or a gift. Um, for example, Psalms 104, 14 through 15, Deuteronomy 7 through 13. Um, it has some medical uses in the scripture. Um, talking about having a little wine with your stomach. Um, a lot of that, but was because the water was bad, and so you could put a little alcohol in it. Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

Purify the water.

Joy, Witness, And Sober-Minded Living

Ken Claytor

Yeah, purify the water, be used for medical purposes, like 1 Timothy chapter 5, verse number 23. And so the Bible has some not contradictory, because I don't believe scripture contradicts, but it gives two different angles of wine. So some of it's looked at as the blessing of God. Um, but the Bible has a lot more warnings than it does blessings when it comes to wine. And this stuff is strong and it's repeated. It drunkenness is a sin, okay? It's consistently condemned and listed among works of the flesh, Ephesians 5.18, Galatians 5.19, 1 Corinthians 6.9. Alcohol impairs judgment. It can lead to ruin, violence, and sorrow. Proverbs 20 and 1, Proverbs 23 and 29, Isaiah 55 and 11 through 12. Um, leaders are always held at a higher caution when it comes to alcohol. Kings, priests, pastors, elders are warned against alcohol, clouding effects of giving in to too much wine. So Proverbs 31, 4, Leviticus 10, 9, 1 Timothy chapter 3, verse 3. Um, and so what we've learned is that love limits liberties. Yeah, you got liberty, but I love people enough to allow my liberties to be limited. So even if something is permissible, believers are are called to avoid becoming a stumbling block to others. Romans chapter 14, verse 13, 1 Corinthians 8, um, 1 Corinthians 10, uh 23 through 24, and sobriety is a posture. So we're commanded to be sober-minded and watchful. 1 Peter chapter 5 and 8, 1 Thessalonians chapter 5, verse 6. So I say all that to say with those points, drinking's not a sin, drunkenness is a sin. Drinking is permissible, but like I said in the beginning, it doesn't mean that it's wise, beneficial, or even healthy.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. I hear um um I've heard uh some like reports or even read some just interesting uh things about wine nowadays versus wine in the Bible, and how like one glass of wine today would equal several glasses of wine back then. So the amount of alcohol that we have in one glass of wine today is not what Jesus was drinking back in the Bible days. And you know, when he made wine turn water into wine, it's not equal, it's much more potent what we do today than what they did back then. And I find that very interesting as well, you know, because it's some things that we don't say. Um, but anyway, it's just just things that I think about.

Ken Claytor

Here's my main thing for why I've been sober 24 years and I'll do it the rest of my life. I've been called to live beyond the gray. Beyond the gray. Say it with me. Beyond the gray.

Tabatha Claytor

Beyond the gray.

Ken Claytor

And I wrote a book called Beyond the Gray that I did not publish years ago, but I still want to. And the premise is this is that the Bible is not black and white about everything. Yeah, there's a lot of gray areas. And so the Bible doesn't really tell you don't snort coke. The Bible doesn't tell you don't have someone uh of the opposite sex in your car as a coworker. The Bible doesn't tell you don't go on an overnight trip with your coworkers and do certain things. The Bible doesn't even talk a lot about gambling and masturbation and different things. There's some alluding to it here and there, but it's not very strong if you're if you're honest. So the Bible is not thou shall not commit murder, thou shall not. Those are black and white. The Bible tells you exactly what to do. So there's a lot of gray space. There's a lot of gray space. And here's my principle for living, especially for those who are anointed, those who are leaders, those who are influencers, and those who don't want to stumble. Live beyond the gray.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Beyond the gray. So when it comes to alcohol, for me, it's a gray area. I see some benefit to it in the Bible. Maybe it might make me merry, so forth and so on. There's some blessing when it comes to the fruit of the wine, the vine. But I also see, give it to him who is in pain and in poverty and has some stomach issues. And a little, a little, a little wine in the glass can like almost ruin your soul. You know what I'm saying? I'm seeing things, kings and princesses. So what what what am I gonna do? To me, that's a gray area. And the safest place to be is I'm gonna live beyond the gray. What does that mean? I want to live beyond reproach. Uh huh. Let me give it to you this way. I want to live a blameless life where my good is not evil spoken of, right? Where I'm not a stumbling block to anybody. Right. I want to live way, way beyond the borderline of sin, so to say.

Tabatha Claytor

I think that's great. Yeah. I mean, and and someone I agree with you also. And then, but for someone like me with a a family history of alcoholism, um, I just I'm I'm I'm not gonna go there. That's a trap that family member after family member, even myself, have fallen into. I'm not gonna go back there. Right. And so I'm gonna be wise and draw a line and stay far away from it.

Bible Texts: Warnings And Wisdom

Ken Claytor

But why is it so hard for some people? Why is it so hard? I feel like there's some people, if you think about relatives, friends, et cetera, who've had DUIs and problems, like, bro, or sis, we we told you about this stuff. Yeah. Why was it so hard? They feel like they just want to be one of the boys.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Or they just want to be one of the gals. Or I was at a um, what is the thing before you get married? A bachelor party.

Tabatha Claytor

Uh-huh.

Ken Claytor

I was at the and everybody else was doing it.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, that's the thing.

Ken Claytor

You gotta be willing to take a stand.

Tabatha Claytor

I was getting ready to say, yeah, you you get a you gotta get new friends. You gotta get away from people. I don't go places where they're drinking. You know, I might be there and it's like um somebody had a glass of wine at the table or whatever, but I'm not partaking. And I'm not gonna do that day in and day out. I don't like that, like personally, me who who who grew up with it, I don't like the smell of alcohol. I don't like when I go to restaurants and or if I go to a game and somebody has a cup of beer next to me.

Ken Claytor

That's just the smell of Can I say this, dear pastor, please be careful. You know, because I've been around pastors and I've been in green rooms where they are exercising their Christian liberties. But honestly, it feels very similar to the same atmosphere that I had when I was 19 years old.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

It just does.

Tabatha Claytor

I'm not impressed.

Ken Claytor

Men, woman of God, please just be careful. You know, yes, you have a liberty to sit around and pass the bottle and have some wine, but it's not impressing anybody.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You looking at the wine and smelling it and tasting it and moving it all around your mouth and talking about it's what vintage is from and it's from 1800, it's not impressing anybody. Because for some people, those are strongholds. For some people, those spirits are actually demonic spirits. Right. For you, maybe you don't have that problem. But I'm just saying that I don't know. I feel like we came out of a generation, like back in revival days, Jesus movement, a lot of people came and it was like no alcohol. Then we went through a grace movement where it's like, well, it's permissible, and we got people coming in from different nations, and we do this in Australia or we do this in um whatever country you come from, it's okay. But then we see those same people losing their ministries, losing their marriages, and losing their mind. Where's the center point? The center point is that it's permissible, but it's probably not wise. It's not something that I want to go and celebrate. Like I'm not coming to your happy hour here. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like this is not condemnation, it's just like a word of warning. Right. Like if I come to your church event and I feel like, okay, you guys are tipsy a little bit. I've been around a table of pastors before and felt uncomfortable because I'm the one not drinking. Yeah. Something might want to be reconsidered here.

Tabatha Claytor

Something ain't right.

Ken Claytor

I love you, but the atmosphere you're creating is not one where the presence and the power of God is at the center any longer. It feels like the world. Right. And I'm I'm sorry if that feels like a projection of my convictions, but it's just the reality of atmospheres that I feel like we're not stewarding with a high level of living beyond reproach.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, I think other people feel the same way you do, but may not be able to articulate it or may not like, like, oh, I can't say anything about this, but this doesn't feel right to me. But I think when people hear that, it gives them maybe freedom, liberty, courage to speak up and say, oh, well, no, I don't drink. No, I don't want to drink. You do what you want to do, but I'm this this is me.

Ken Claytor

I guess what I'm saying when I say pastors, please be careful. Like, I mean, hey, if you want to enjoy that in your privacy of your own home, well, do what you do. If you want to enjoy that on a birthday or an anniversary somewhere when you're out somewhere, well, do what you do. I don't want to do that. Right. I don't want to do that. But if you're gonna have a church event or church dinner and you got other believers and they come from different walks of life, I'll just put it like this. And I please hear my heart. I felt like the Lord showed me this years ago for being my church to create a safe place where the wounded, the addicted, and the afflicted can come.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

And they won't be more bound when they get into our small groups.

Tabatha Claytor

Right.

Ken Claytor

And I feel like there are churches that they have drink in small groups.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

They have let's go to the bar, to the pub, small groups.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, I've been.

Living Beyond The Gray

Ken Claytor

And thank God for that, but the wounded, the addicted, and the afflicted can't come because you have not created a safe place for them. And in a live church, the good news is that even though we've been persecuted because of this, I've created a safe place where I see people come out of rehab to our church. And they don't get back into bondage at our church, they get more into freedom because we've created a culture where holiness is the norm.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, and they embrace it and it's good. It's fun. Yeah. It's turned up. Let's go. Yeah, I've definitely been in rooms, in ministry rooms before. And um, you know, we would sit down and we would talk and have questions and talk about books and talk about the word, and everything was so beautiful, and we're just sharing is a bunch of like pastors' wives and ministry leaders and stuff, and we're sharing, and then it was just like, oh, okay, excuse me. Oh, well, you know, oh, now it's time for the wine. And so they um, you know, and they got out, somebody came with bottles of wine in their hand, and everybody's like, yay! And everybody got excited and like turned up. And I'm like a wife and a mom, and I'm just like, okay, this isn't no judgment, but I don't want to be there. So I'm just like, hey, okay, guys, y'all have fun, good night. I'm out, you know. And I left. Yeah. And it's no judgment on them because y'all do what you want to do. But I'm like, look, I'm, you know, I was probably at least in my 30s. And I'm like, look, I did the sorority life when I was in college, you know what I mean? Wish I didn't, but I did. Um, I I've been there. I'm not impressed with that. I've been in the club too.

Ken Claytor

I did the house parts. I don't want to do, I'm gonna do it. I sold, I sold stuff at the door.

Tabatha Claytor

Now I'm a grown woman.

Ken Claytor

I want to be people stealing stuff from the hospital, smoking balloons or snuffing balloons, passed out of my living room. I did that when I was 18, 19. I'm like almost 50. You know what I'm saying?

Tabatha Claytor

But you can you can gracefully, hey guys, love you, thank you.

Ken Claytor

You know, I think that's my point. Let's draw a line in the sand. Like it's okay to say, hey, that's not for me. God bless you, good night. Call me later. You know what I'm saying? I love you. When you're ready for something different, come holler at your boy. Yeah, but I just feel like I want to live the kind of life with such a swag and a joy that you think I'm drunk, but I'm not.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You think I'm high, but I'm not, because I've been with God that long. And I just feel like what we've done is we've been able to capture that in a real holy way. I think it's something that it's something special in our life. Yeah. Where we have that kind of fun without being inebriated and without wasting, without creating more strongholds. But here's the scriptures that speak to me. Proverbs 31. It says, It's not for kings, O Lemuel, it's not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes strong drink, lest they drink and forget the law and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. Proverbs 31 and 6, it says, Give strong drink to him who's ready to perish, and wine to those who are heavy hearts. Let him drink and forget his poverty and remember his misery no more. Well, number one, I ain't poor, and number two, I ain't got a heavy heart. Proverbs 23 and 29 through 35, it says, Who has woe, who has sorrow, who has strife, who has complaints, who has needless bruises, who has bloodshot eyes, those who linger over wine, who go to sample bowls of mixed wine. Do not graze it wine when it's red, when it sparkles in a cup, and when it goes down smoothly. In the end, it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, and your mind will imagine confusing things. You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the ridging. They hit me, you'll say, but I'm not hurt. They beat me, but I ain't feel it. When will I wake up? Can I, and can I find another drink? So the Bible has some very negative things to say. It's a gray area. It's a gray area. I'm gonna stay out of the gray area.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You know. So for me, I've asked my ordained leaders and my my staff to put alcohol on the altar. You say, Well, how and why? Well, too much is given, much is required.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, sir.

Ken Claytor

I ain't got no other explanation other than that. You know, too much is given, much is required. So you want me to hire you and pay you or ordain you to be a shepherd over over a flock. Okay, so I'm gonna need you to put alcohol on the altar. And it's not because we have to, we get to. And if you decide that, yo, that's my calling, okay, to be a part of this house, that's the culture that I I feel led to create. And I believe that God honors that. I believe that he's honored that.

Tabatha Claytor

And so I believe so too. When when you see the fruit, um, and and and again, I believe it it's our life, it's what we choose to do. Um, and I think God honors that. But when we look at the fruit in our ministry, and you said this earlier with the amount of people who come from rehab of alcohol and even different kinds of drugs into our ministry, it is a safe place for them. Yeah, I'm curious. It is a place where they can hear, look, you can put alcohol under your feet. Yeah, you don't need alcohol. Come to my house, we will party, we will have a good time without being drunk, without being tipsy, without wine. We're gonna have a good time.

Ken Claytor

I had no clue I could have this much fun.

Tabatha Claytor

They were just like me. That's why I'm I'm like, I'm passionate about this.

Ken Claytor

No clue. Thank you, Pastor Ken.

Culture, Ministry, And Safe Environments

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. And and even, you know, I would tell, like, you know, my friends and people who like, let's say you do drink and you're like, you you're okay with this, this is what you do. Um, I would say, if you do minister and be aware, be conscious of the other people around that you invite into that environment. There are so many people struggling, but have never told a soul. And they say, I'm not gonna drink today, but then they show up at your house and you got wine, and so then I'll drink again, and now I gotta go on to the next day. There are so many people struggling with alcohol and it's a secret number one. But then there are people who, you know, like myself, like, no, I don't like when I smell alcohol, I I have I'm over, but there's there's triggers with it. It's just like, uh, I don't like it. It puts me back in a place that I don't want to be. And so I stay out of those environments. When we go to a restaurant, they're like, oh, there's a free, there's a there's a seat open at the bar right now. Oh, no, thank you. I'll wait an hour because I ain't gonna sit up at the bar with all those drinks and smell like I'm not doing it. I know that I'm going to be intentional about keeping myself out of that environment. And you can call me weak, you can say that I don't have control. I don't know, but call me blessed and call me, call me sober, call me that I'm not falling into that trap that you know, generations of my family have fallen in. Call me blessed, and the curse stopped with me. It won't touch my children.

Leaders’ Influence And Boundaries

Ken Claytor

Well I mean, I want to give a shout out to my dad. My dad broke the curse and then I just kind of followed on it. My my grandfather died of liver sclerosis. Is that how you pronounce it? So back in West Virginia, um Sclerosis of the liver. Uh black coal miner, you know, they would drink a lot of moonshine. And a lot of people make jokes of moonshine, but it was a real thing. And that stuff was strong, and a lot of my uh relatives and people would get addicted to it. And so my grandfather I never met, he died before I was born, and he died from liver sclerosis from moonshine. Sclerosis. And so my dad um decided to take a stance and not be a drinker. And so thankfully, I didn't have it in my home. But even when I grew up, I just went the other way because that's the norm and that's the culture. I mean, I even sold beer. I sold St. Odds. I would go across from West Virginia to Pennsylvania, I would buy St. Id's Special Brew, because they have blueberry, raspberry, and I would come back and I would sell it. I was a bootlegger. Um I can give you so many stories about stuff that I did with alcohol. None of it helped me. None of it helped me. But here's some she's laughing. Here are some points to consider when thinking of if drinking is for you. Scripture consistently forbids drunkenness and causes to be sober-minded and spirit-filled. Kings, leaders are warned against drinking, clouding judgment. Okay? Consider this. Love limits liberty, and even if permissible, don't be a stumbling block. Alcohol is linked to multiple cancers. Breast, liver, esophagus, larnix, oral, even low intake raises risk, especially with breast cancer. Alcohol contributes to 2.6 million deaths a year. Each additional daily drink is associated with a higher atrial fibrillation risk. Okay. Central nervous systems depressant. Alcohol slows brain activity. It impairs coordination, judgment, and self-control. Just think about this, y'all. It is a sleep disruptor. Meta-analysis show alcohol fragments sleep and suppresses the REM with lingering effects. There's a domestic violence part that's attached to it. Alcohol is frequently present and increases the likelihood and severity of partner violence. Okay? Alcohol is a common factor. In college sexual assaults, national reviews confirm a majority of campuses' assaults involve alcohol and substances. In 2021, there was 13,384 Americans died in alcohol-impaired crashes. 31% of all traffic fatalities. There's an economic cost. Alcohol misuse cost the United States$249 billion a year. Okay. And now people, even that people that don't believe in Jesus, are doing stuff like dry Januaries. And there's a sober consciousness that's hitting the land because they see how it's even affecting you from a neurolog neuro neurological pathway. If you look to people like Dr. Amon, who is a very well-known neuroscientist or neurologist, he will tell you that drinking alcohol, even very limited amounts, just a little bit, kills brain cells, hinders, hinders your brain, hinders your neurology. And so Gen Z is shifting. There was a new poll in 2025. 65% of Gen Z, they plan to drink less in 2025. 39% plan to go dry all year. There's like this low alcohol, no alcohol market boom. The global segment surpassed$11 billion in 2022 for no alcohol like beers. Even in Germany, now non alcoholic beer is now 9% of the marketplace. So even people in the world who don't have G. Are starting to look at alcohol as damaging. Pregnant women do not drink. Neuroscientists are saying that it's not good for you. It hinders your sleep. It functions as an antidepressant when there's so many people there. Not an antidepressant, a depressant. A depressant, you know, when there's so many people on antidepressants. There's a gateway pattern. If you study people who get hooked on bigger drugs, it starts off at alcohol, then goes to weed, then goes to stronger things. And so there's just so many things that that goes along with drinking that we really have to consider. And so here's the bottom line. When you weigh scriptures call to sobriety and love against the mod modern data, cancer, sleep loss, depression risk, assaults, crashes, money drain, rising sober movements. The strongest and wisest case is to choose clarity over compromise and abstain. And that's all that we've done. And so today is not telling you what to do, it's telling you what we've done, and it's an invitation to something different. And here is my big challenge five reasons Christians shouldn't drink alcohol. It hinders your witness for Jesus, it can impair your decision making, it can hurt your health emotionally, mentally, and physically. It never leads you closer to Jesus, but can lead you away from him. And number five, everything you benefit, everything benefits you gain from alcohol, everything that you could benefit from drinking alcohol, you can actually get it from a relationship with God. So here's my challenge. Let's call it the 30-day sobriety challenge. And if you're listening to this and you're like, yo, I never even thought about this, and this is bearing witness with me, why don't you just say, I'm gonna do the next 30 days and I'm gonna put down alcohol? And I'm gonna go to some of my friend's house and I'm gonna go into these spaces and they're gonna say, hey man, you want this? Hey, no, I'm not drinking anymore. Or you can say I'm not drinking for 30 days. But I don't want you to get back in 30 days. Maybe at the end of 30 days, just reassess your life and say, Can I now make this a lifestyle for me? But why don't we take a 30-day sobriety challenge? I want to hear from you. I do. I really want to tell you. If you're gonna take this, um, please in the comment or in the chat, say challenge accepted. 30 days of sobriety. Challenge accepted, okay? At the end of the 30 days, I want you to email us. I want you to reach back out to us, and I want you to tell me what was revealed to you. What did you learn? What did you get? What did God do? I believe by faith that there's going to be some of you all that 30 days will change 30 years. And you're going to be like us in 24 years, be like, I wish somebody would have told me about this earlier. Oh my God, it's been the best 24 years of my life. I believe that's for you. I believe it's for somebody who's watching and listening. And so we're out of time for today. I hope you enjoyed today. If you enjoyed today, make sure you hit subscribe so you can be the first to get the content when it's released. We drop a new episode every Thursday at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. We believe that sharing is caring and caring is sharing. And you know that there are people out there that need today's episode. Do this for me. Text somebody, email somebody, share this with somebody so that they can grab hold of this episode on today. If you're ever in Florida, come worship with us at a live church. And if you're in between church homes, of course, you can join us online. We have thousands of people that join us every Sunday, 9 45 Eastern Standard Time. We hope to see you there. Just know that you're not alone. We're praying for you. We love you, and we'll see you next Thursday. Peace.

Contributor

Ken Claytor

Host
Head Shot

Tabatha Claytor

Host