Doing Life with Ken and Tabatha

How To Get Promoted (What Bosses Look For)

• Ken Claytor and Tabatha Claytor

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The promotion you want might be carrying more than you think. We get honest about what “next level” really means, because promotion is not only a raise or a new title, it is pressure, visibility, responsibility, and accountability. If you’ve ever watched someone move up faster than you, felt stuck in your role, or wondered what leaders are actually looking for, this conversation is a clear, practical reset. 

We talk about promotable character and why trust beats talent when it’s time to choose who advances. Ken and Tabitha unpack what it looks like to embrace hard instead of dodging it, build mental toughness without losing tenderness, and stay emotionally steady when the assignment stretches you. We also dig into the people side of leadership development: chemistry, humility, and why many promotions come through your ability to lead and develop others, not just your individual skill. 

You’ll walk away with actionable promotion tips you can apply immediately at work, in ministry leadership, or anywhere you want to grow: become excellent at your current assignment, solve problems without being asked, bring solutions instead of complaints, ask for feedback, lead without authority, upgrade your skills, and protect integrity by avoiding gossip, shortcuts, bitterness, and comparison. If you’re serious about career growth and spiritual growth, this one is built to challenge you and help you level up. 

Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s hungry to grow, and leave a review so more leaders can find the show. What’s one trait you know you need to build before your next promotion?

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i...

Embracing Hard And Promotion

Ken Claytor

He's been made for hard things, and his grace is sufficient. But I think the people who don't get promoted, they reject hard. And the people who do get promoted, they embrace hard. That's a word. I can almost look around in my peripheral and I can tell people it's like dodging hard. Then I can tell the people it's like send me more hard. And then some hard will break people down, boy. It'd be depressed and almost medication.

Tabatha Claytor

And you have to decide. You might be a person that I don't like hard, and that's not what I want. Well, you don't want the promotion. So stop trying to get the promotion. Stop feeling bad and say, okay, that's not where I want to be.

Welcome And Why Promotion Matters

Ken Claytor

The Bible says that promotion comes from God. So that would be one with me. But I see God's promotion. I see Joseph's promotion. I see Daniel's promotion. It's almost like the processes of God to bring us from one level of place to another level of place. So if you're a person that's like, is that godly to be promoted? I'm like, are you reading the Bible? Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha. So glad you found our podcast today. You're not here by an accident. We got a good one for you today. Is there anybody who's watching this that could use a promotion? A spiritual promotion, a promotion at work. You are in the right place today. We want you to make sure that you share this. We like promotions. We like promotions. We believe that promotions come from God. And we actually, I actually believe that it's actually part of the will of God to move us from one level of glory to another level of glory. We want to help you get promoted. So we're going to share some things with you from a perspective so that you can have the attributes so that you can be promoted. And so if you're new to our podcast, we just want to say welcome. We're so glad you're here. We want to help you grow closer to God and closer to the people that God's placed in your life. We're Ken and Tabitha. We've been married for 26 years. It's been the best 24 years of our life. So the first two years was horrible. But you know, this is kind of like a marriage podcast, but not just a marriage podcast, also a personal growth podcast. And we believe that when you get better, the marriage will get better. And so today's going to fall on the personal growth side, regardless of your relationship status. Hopefully, we can share some principles that will bring promotion your way. And so let's talk about it, baby. Are you ready?

Tabatha Claytor

I'm ready.

Ken Claytor

So when I say uh promotion or how to be promoted, what comes to mind?

Tabatha Claytor

When it comes to promotion, I'm looking for a leader.

Ken Claytor

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

You know.

Ken Claytor

So this feels like a leadership um conversation to you. I think leadership is good. Now, this is what I believe about leaders. Tell me if you agree with this. I believe that every Christian has been called to be a leader.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes, I agree.

Ken Claytor

John Maxwell defines a leader as just a person of influence. And so when we've been called to be the light of the world, the salt of the earth, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to be Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, but we've been called to be leaders. So any leadership conversation, believers should lean into it.

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

And so anything else comes to mind when I talk about promotion or how to be promoted?

Tabatha Claytor

I think it's that um everyone wants to be promoted. You know, we all want to do better, really. Um I mean, maybe some people don't, but we want to grow, we want to be better, we want to do better. But with promotion comes responsibility, and not everyone's getting promoted.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

So what do I have to do to be promoted? Some people want to be promoted in ministry or in the workplace, um, and they've been at it for years, and other people are getting promoted before above them. Yeah. Why?

Ken Claytor

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

Why is that?

Defining Promotion And Its Weight

Ken Claytor

Yeah, my name is Ken and I'm your friend. This is Tabitha. She's your friend. We want to make sure that you understand the things that you need to do to be promoted, at least from our perspective. We want you to be promoted. Yeah. So what is a promotion? Promotion doesn't just mean more money, more title, um, your own office or more influence. It means also more responsibility, yes, more pressure, more visibility, and also more accountability. And so when we talk about promotion, and that's what happens, you know, there's a I hear people that they well, I just want to make six figures. Well, I want to make six figures. Do you know the kind of weight and responsibility that you have when you make six figures? Everybody wants to make six figures as if that's the like the the gold standard. But that just means you're gonna work some weekends, you're not gonna have a 40-hour week job, they're gonna we're gonna call on you more. You know what I'm saying? That's all that it means. So then my question is, can you handle that? Because a lot of people want uh this promotion, but can they handle the promotion? And we want to help people get ready.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. And so if I was to give like a key perspective, it would be if you want to be promoted, make sure you have promotable character.

Tabatha Claytor

That's number one.

Ken Claytor

If you want to be promoted, you have to have promotable character. What do you think about that?

Tabatha Claytor

Uh, I think uh I love that. Uh I think it goes two ways. Number one, you have to have good character because that's who your boss is promoting. That's who I'm promoting. I'm I'm promoting the people who I can depend on. I can't depend on people with no character. I like that. Um, but the other thing is that you don't want to be promoted without character because you're gonna gain your promotion and then you're gonna lose it.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

And so let's get good character so that you can be promoted and keep the promotion.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. Why is it that you think that some people are passed over for promotions or are not promoted? What are common characteristics?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, I think trustworthiness. Yeah. Can can we can we trust you? Um if we give you an assignment, um, do you turn it back in? You know, do you come back on time? Uh, do you break down? We we gave you one assignment and you broke down.

Ken Claytor

That's the worst. The people that just break down. It's like because honestly, and I lead a lot of people, there are some people they can handle a hundred tasks and won't break down. There's some people if they handle two, they're gonna break down. And so you almost gotta. I remember when I first got involved in ministry, my pastor said to me, Um, he quoted that scripture that David said to Solomon, my son Solomon is young and tender and the work is great. And I remember my pastor said, Ken, you're young and tender, but the work God's called you to do is great. What he was saying is that I need to kind of toughen you up a little bit and build you up because you don't want to be young and tender. You got to be like tender and tough at the same time. So the the like the posture or the ingredients for being a great leader is you gotta be tender enough to your heart breaks still. You can't be like some stone cold person, yeah, but you also have to be tough. And there's a level of a mental and emotional toughness that actually there's a generation of people, I don't know how they were raised, but they're missing just the mental toughness and emotional toughness that's needed to build anything of value. So you got to be tender and tough. But um, I don't know.

Tabatha Claytor

I I like that. Well, and and trustworthy as well, you know, you have to um kind of not give up when it gets hard. Right. So if I trust you with an assignment, a task, or whatever it is, um, I need to know that it doesn't matter what goes on, you are going to come back with this checked off the list. You are going to give me a completed project. And it was hard because we know everything's hard.

Ken Claytor

Let's talk about that. What is it about the hard piece? Isn't it like because we're employers and I've been I've been an employer for 23 years. And um, I've been a lead pastor for um going on 19 years now. And I've noticed that some people are almost scared hard.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

It's almost like there are some people like hard is just what they do, you know. But then there's other people, it's like if it gets hard, it's affecting. I don't know. I just had a conversation about like work-life balance, it's affecting, am I working too much? And I I don't, I don't know. Like, what's your perspective on that?

Tabatha Claytor

I think we expect it to be easy. I think it's just like getting married. We think that we're gonna get married and live happily ever after. That's not that's not true. It is gonna be very hard. And so we think that, okay, well, we went to college and we graduated, or now we finally got this job and it's gonna be easy. It's not, or oh, we got the promotion because we look at the big office, we look at the big house or the car, we look at the fruit of the promotion and we say, Oh, I want that. That's the life, that's gonna be easy. When I get to that position, then I will. But that's never the case. It's always going to be hard.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, yeah. And well, I always say this: you've been made for hard things, and his grace is sufficient. But I think the people who don't get promoted, they reject hard. And the people who do get promoted, they embrace hard. That's a word. Now let me say it again. All right. The people who get promoted, they embrace hard. And the people that don't get promoted, they reject hard. And as a person who promotes people, I can almost look around through my peripheral and I can tell people it's like dodging hard. Oh, it was hard. It was hard, it was hard. And then I can tell the people it's like, send me more hard. And I'm like, okay, that's the person right there that you want to promote. Right. Send me more hard. I can handle hard. I've been made for hard. I like hard. Right. You know, and then some hard will break people down, boy. They'd be depressed and all some medication. Yeah. And you have to decide. Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

If you you might be a person that I don't like hard, and that's not what I want. Well, you yeah, you don't want the promotion. So stop trying to get the promotion, stop feeling bad, stop all of this mental stuff that we go through in our mind and say, okay, I realize that's not where I am right now, and that's not where I want to be. So now let me get to where my sweet spot is. We talked about people who the workload that we can handle. You can grow into that workload. Um, you might have a certain personality type. You can be trained, you know, you can read books and take classes and be mentored. Right. But then some people don't want to, and maybe some people can't. Like that's that's not your you know.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, and I don't think it's a thing of value. Like a person, like I never look at people's different capacity and say that this person is better than another person. Right. Because it doesn't have to do with your value and worth as a human being. So if I can handle a hundred things, but you can only have handle two things, I'm not looking down at you like you are less than what I'm less, but I know I can't give you the promotion. So the the the tension is if you really want the promotion. And I'm not just talking about promotion, you want ministry. You want to be ordained, you you want the responsibility, but you can't handle the responsibility. That's where the tension comes in. Yeah. And so um, so the good news is that we can actually grow our capacity. We can. We got a young lady on our team that, man, she came in and she couldn't handle the pace, but now she's one of our stronger leaders. She learned to handle the capacity. When my pastor looked at me and says, You're tender, he was right. I didn't like, man, it was just so hard. People leaving the church. I never knew people left church. I never thought about leaving a church ever. I never thought about it. Like I was a part of the Baptist church, you know, that my mom and dad grew up in. I went to college, I went to church, then we went to Washington, D.C. We found a little church for a minute, and I left that church to go to another church, and I was at that church. And when God called us to pastor, I cried for the first six months being in Gainesville because I missed my church so much. I never had an offense with a pastor. I never had church, you know what I'm saying? I never had a problem with a church, not because it wasn't there. I just didn't fall into like I'm gonna be offended or something like that.

Loving People To Lead People

Tabatha Claytor

So I think here's the thing that I find.

Ken Claytor

I don't know why I went off on that.

Tabatha Claytor

Listen, no, because I'm about to go off too. No, no, I'm not. Um, I think there's a lot of people who want to be promoted, but they don't like people. And most of even in the secular world, even in business, you know, promotion comes to you're a manager, a supervisor, if even if you go up the chain like that, you are being promoted because you are taking care of other people. You're managing people. And so if you don't like people, if people like they get on your nerves or they throw you off or they won't, you don't know how to talk to people and communicate. And like if you don't have a genuine likeness or a love for people, you probably don't want to be promoted.

Ken Claytor

And it's so true statistically, you can also look it up that the people that make the most money are the people that manage people. Yeah. Or the people that deal with people. Now you can go cut grass, you can go cut hair, you can do a lot of things, a lot of careers out there where you're just good at a trait. And that's good. But if you want to make top dollar and if you want to expand your income, it's probably gonna come because you are working with people. Yeah. And people can be difficult to work with, but it's a trait and it's a skill that you learn. It's so funny. I don't know. Me, I'm always looking for the people that know how to raise up other people to do what other people can do. Like I'm looking for people that can actually recreate themselves and other people that recreate themselves and other people. Because in the church world, that's how disciples are made. It's like, okay, if I only have an hour of time, am I going to invest in you just so that you're a stronger Christian, or am I going to invest in the person that can then turn around to invest in the person that invests in the person, and now I've affected like a whole group of people because I put my hour into that one person. Right. I'm looking for the person that knows how to reach the people.

Chemistry Humility And Second Chair Leadership

SPEAKER_02

Right.

Ken Claytor

It just has to do with sowing and reaping, you know? Are you a senior leader, a second chair leader, or simply someone who's thinking about launching a church? If that's you, I want to personally invite you to be a part of the Global Pastors and Leaders Network. You know, I've been in ministry now 18, 19 years. We started with six people in the rec center, but on today, we have five locations in four cities in two different nations. We see over 4,000 people in regular attendance every single Sunday. And we want to pay it forward. People are asking me, Pastor Ken, how are you guys doing what you're doing at a live church? A lot of people want a shortcut to success. The only shortcut is mentorship. And so I'm starting a new thing called Mentorship Mondays with Pastor Ken and Friends. We're launching a monthly Zoom call where I'm fielding real life ministry questions. I'm bringing some of our team along with us. We're opening up our playbook to really share with you what we do at a live church and how we're doing it. My team and I will be hosting this call every third Monday. If this resonates with you, and if you're hungry, humble, and know that God's just calling you to war, join us for the next call. We'll see you there. Let me just start off here, though. Do you believe that promotion is like a godly thing? Because there are some people, I almost feel like sometimes in the Christian space, there's this passivity, and almost like, well, if God does it, he doesn't.

Tabatha Claytor

If the Lord makes it happen.

Ken Claytor

And I don't know, you know, I don't need all that. I'm just good. You know, when I get to heaven. So I guess what I'm saying is, do you believe that's something that's biblical and godly? Promotion?

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely, 100%.

Ken Claytor

I do too. Why do you say that though? Is there a scripture that comes to mind or a story that comes to mind? I see the Bible says that promotion comes from God. So that would be one with me. Yes, yes. But I see God's promotion. Yes. I see Joseph's promotion, I see Daniel's promotion. I see that when God was with someone, like say Joseph, he's in the prison, promoted. He's in Potiphar's house, promoted. You know, it's almost like promotion is part of the character. It's almost like the processes of God to bring us from one level of place to another level of place. So if your person is like, is that godly to be promoted? I'm like, are you reading the Bible?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

I don't know.

Vision Pushback And Leading Through Stretch

Tabatha Claytor

Well, it's not a I know some people might hear like, like, I'm being promoted or exalting myself or something like that. That's that's not it. That ain't what we're talking about. You know, everything we do is for the glory of God. You know, everything we do is so that God can shine through us. You know, when they see me shine, you really see Jesus. Yeah. And so we're not saying that. But I think it's evident when you read the scripture, the beginning to the end, that it takes us from one level of glory to another, that God's a good lot, God, that he increases us, that we sow and we reap.

Ken Claytor

Like everything increases us more and more, us and our children. So most bosses don't promote um who wants it the most, they promote who they trust the most. And a lot of people think promotion is about talent, but promotion is actually about consistency, it's about character, it's about maturity, yeah, it's about leadership, it's about attitude, it's about reliability, it's about stability. Anything else you want to add on? Come on.

Tabatha Claytor

I mean, it's about I like one of the number one things that I look for when I'm hiring someone is their initiative.

Ken Claytor

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Like, I want to hire you because I need you to handle your business. I don't need you waiting for me to tell you to go and do something. I need you to be like, hey, what's going on over here? Let me investigate that. Okay, let me problem solve, let me bring the solution. Like, I'm looking for someone who has the initiative to just get up and make things happen. Um, and so I think that's like a big I'll give you another one.

Ken Claytor

I'm looking, I try to hire people that can help me. If you come on my team and then I'm spending all my time trying to help you, like, and I want to help you. You know, that's part of good culture. Like, I want to help you. I care about your life, I care about everything. But honestly, I'm paying you to try to help me carry the load.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And so the higher you go in leadership, the more the weight is. So what you're looking for, modern-day Aaron and hers that can come and undergird you and say, I'm here to make your life easy.

Tabatha Claytor

You're right.

Ken Claytor

So the people that I really love are the people that's like, Pastor, what you need? Give me more. I know you're going through. I saw your week. I saw what you're doing. Hey, is there anything I can do to kind of relieve that pressure? I'm like, okay, promotable, promotable.

Tabatha Claytor

And we've actually um hired people also, you said that it's not about, I mean, there's some talent involved, you know what I mean?

Ken Claytor

Oh, 100%.

Tabatha Claytor

There's some, and some jobs involve more talent than others. But can you how many people have we hired, including myself doing certain things, um, that they didn't have the qualifications, but they had the character and the will. Um, and we put them in the position and they thrived.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

I remember um when I started a daycare. I don't know anything about daycares.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

I just know that this was the next logical stop step for us to do. It was a good thing. So I just figured it out. I became like a licensed child care provider, and I learned how to take care of these kids, set every, I mean, from the A to Z.

Ken Claytor

You know, you never even put your kids in daycare. You're gonna start a daycare, but you wouldn't learn.

Tabatha Claytor

But I had the character. I had the will and the know-how and the initiative to go out and make it happen. I would hire that person over someone who, you know, worked for 30 years and did, you know, whatever, like every time.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. I think I've been an employer since 2003, maybe 2002. I've been an employer. So that's a long time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

But this is what I'm looking for. This might not be what everybody else is looking for, but I think that these are some good inklings to what an employer might be looking for. Character and integrity. No stage acting.

Tabatha Claytor

Yep.

Bible Foundations For Promotion

Ken Claytor

Um, loyalty and faithfulness. I love people that are like die hard loyalists. Like some of some of the people that really, when I think of, okay, that's a good that's a good person on the team, or the people that go through different seasons with you. Because even in our church world, we've had seasons where wasn't a lot of people. Money was tight. And I've seen people stick with me through the season, and I seem like when the when the when the fight breaks out, people scatter, but then you look, okay, who's still with you? Yes. You you want those kind of people. Um, someone who has my back when the fight breaks out. There's a kind of mindset. It's like they're with you as long as it's good. But if it ever turns good, I gotta protect my own interest. Those are never good team people to have. Um, mental and emotional toughness, I talked about that stability. Um, stability is important. It's almost like stable, um, stubb uh, you know, experience and know-how because there has been times we've made a higher, and it's like, but this person, they don't know what they're doing, you know? They just don't know what they're doing, and you need to have competency and know-how. I look for people that are life learners, teachable, pliable, always growing. Because if not, I'm gonna outgrow you, you know, and our ministry and our our team or organization is gonna move beyond where you are, and then I'm gonna feel bad because I got to redirect your career. And I didn't even want to do that, you know.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, that's a big one. That's a big one. Because people, you can't have the attitude that I'm gonna get promoted and then I made it. Yeah, I'm here for a lifetime now. No, you will get past it.

Warning Signs That Block Promotion

Ken Claytor

Because the organizations we lead, let's talk about the church world, is moving. Yes. Oh my God, God's taking us to new levels. And so what happens is that people get left behind because they're not growing like that. And um, there's some people that just they need a slower kind of environment. But um, I like taking ground for the kingdom and moving and building. Absolutely. And I think that's an important one as well. I need people who have that same mindset. Like, I don't want to sit around and watch TV. I don't want to sit around and just be regular and do what other people. No, I want to do something that we're gonna have some eternal rewards. We're gonna get to heaven and be slapping high fives. Like, look what God did through us while we were there. Come on, Peter and Paul and everybody else. We, man, you inspired us, you know. Uh uh, that's that's my that's my view of getting to heaven. But anyway, uh chemistry is huge. How do they work well with others? And sometimes they can have all these other attributes and they just can't work well with their supervisor, or they just can't work well with their team, or they just can't, you know what I'm saying? It's just like, oh my goodness, how many fights do we have to put out here? How many meetings do we have to have? Just chemistry. I don't know. Chemistry is something that like you probably can learn a little bit. You know, I don't know. I'm the kind of person, put me in a room with anybody, I'm gonna figure out. I don't care your race, your color, your your nationality. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna figure out a commonality there. And some people don't know.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, I think it just comes with being easy. I think those when you get when it comes to chemistry, there's things that you you gotta be very self aware, you know. Um, and you just can't be contentious. You can't go in there, you know, if you come on a job and then you feel like all Oh, well, um, I have this experience and this is what I think. But the boss and the whole company's moving to the right, but you're trying to go to the left, so you probably Well, I think what happens sometimes is that people feel like their idea or their opinion is so strong, and this is what we should be doing.

Ken Claytor

Like, I know this, but there's a balance there to that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And that's I I think that that's a lot of the pain. Like, I just feel like we should be doing that's why denominations have started. Somebody felt like they thought that we should baptize in the name only, and somebody else baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Well, I think this, and I think there's so many companies and teams that are dividing. Churches are dividing just because somebody else has a strong opinion about what's to be done. But if you're ever a second chair leader, you have to learn how to bow the knee.

Tabatha Claytor

You do.

Practical Keys To Get Promoted

Ken Claytor

And you know, good culture is okay, we want to hear your thought, but just because it's a good thought doesn't mean we can implement it right now. It doesn't mean that we have the resource to do it, it doesn't mean that we have the manpower to do it, and it doesn't mean we have the calling to do it. But I agree, that's a great idea. We just can't do it for another five years. Check back in five years. But those people check out in five months because we didn't go with their ideas. Yeah. And so you're looking for a love for God, passion. You know what I'm saying? I don't, I just don't want people around me that's just like going through the motions in their relationship with Jesus. They will not like this, like what we build. Yeah. Because what we build is like we're gonna go hard, we're gonna go fast, and we're gonna do it for God. And when I get to heaven, I'm gonna rest.

Tabatha Claytor

Oh, yeah. And and uh the Holy Spirit is all through it. We we we need you to trust God, we need you to go with God, we need you to prophesy.

Ken Claytor

You're not a person of faith, you're not gonna like it around here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

We're gonna bring the pressure.

Ken Claytor

So that's like my org side, you know, because I before we were pastors, we were real estate people. Yeah. But on my ministry side, now we've been ministry for 19 years here. All right. And um, here's some things that I I look for that might be a little bit different. Loyalty and faithfulness is the same. Um, someone who feels called to help me carry the weight. Um, someone who's not just here for their call. You know, there's people that's like, and you won't know until certain things go a certain way. And it's like they were here for their call, not like our call, not like the vision of the church, but like it's just a stepping stone. You that kind of person, it's hard to hard to trust. Someone who has uh me over we, which is a person who's very self-absorbed. Now that we've seen people that's like, man, your head is so big. If we could get that out of the way, we could we could really work with you here. But it's like your whole world kind of revolves around you, and but like the decisions that we make really never has to do with me or you, it has to do with we.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And so a person who's like we over me, um, someone who can handle multiple things without getting stressed, like, because I've just felt like what God's asked us to do, we're following the cloud by day and the fire by night. So it's like, well, we said do this, and the God said do this. We're gonna do this now, we're gonna pivot, we're gonna pivot. And people who don't know that, yeah, we're just following the cloud around here. We're just following, you know what I'm saying? Like, I understand stability. I understand, I understand org life. I have a business degree, but at the same time, I understand following the Holy Ghost. Yeah. And there's that, there's that balance that you're looking for that person who knows how to do both. Um It's so good.

Tabatha Claytor

We uh go ahead. You you know, like we we we have, I don't know how many services now, four services, five services. There's a uh particularly in one campus. So there's five services. And so it's like I remember at three services. Okay, guys, we're going to three services now. Okay, guys, we're going to four services now. Okay, guys, we're going to five services now. Okay, guys, we're going to six services. And you could, you know, you could be like, oh my gosh, I can't.

Ken Claytor

I No, can I talk about that? Yeah. You could sometimes cut the tension with a knife.

Tabatha Claytor

Yep.

Ken Claytor

Because you can feel people be like, how are we going to be able to do more?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Encouragement Process And Closing

Ken Claytor

Like we have a conference called a live conference, and people come from around the world to the conference. And God gave me a vision for this conference 15 years ago. And when I first started to launch this conference, my own staff stood against it. We're too busy, we're moving too fast, this, that, and the other. I literally had to say, because I listened to them for a couple of years. Then I said, I don't care what y'all say. Because I don't do that, I don't lead that way as a lead pastor. Typically, I try to listen to the people around me and I try to feel, okay, maybe this isn't the season. Um, uh, let me get two or three witnesses. People kind of agree on this. But every once in a while, as a senior leader, I just got to say, y'all don't know what you're talking about. This is what we're gonna do. And I feel like Moses probably came to that point. You know, you're leading this millions of people through the wilderness. Y'all don't know what you're talking about. This is what we're gonna do. And that's why he didn't make it through because he got frustrated in the process. But with the live conference, I remember after we did the first year, I had people repent and say, Pastor, we just didn't see it. We didn't know how good it was gonna be. Now, years into it, people come from all over the nations. But it's just I have to have people that somehow have a mindset that, yeah, we can do what God's called us to do. It's gonna be uncomfortable. But did you think ministry was supposed to be like clean?

Tabatha Claytor

You know, like like we're gonna find a way, we're gonna develop new systems, we're gonna get for different people. We we're going to make a way for this to work decently and in order. And we're gonna trust God alone.

Ken Claytor

This is a word for someone who has a smaller church and maybe you have a smaller organization, and there's just so much backlash. It almost feels like you're just carrying everybody on your back. We declare that the grace of God is sufficient for you. And we also pray that you have wisdom of how like to love people and to bring them along, but you also have discernment because some people are like these dead weights and they're not going to change. But then there's other energy. And if you just look around your organization, other people, they're gonna come along and they're gonna push you. But I pray that you have enough boldness and also wisdom and timing to be able to do the right things in the right way so that your vision doesn't die. That's the whole thing for a visionary. It's almost like sometimes the people that you hire around you can kill the vision.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Because they don't see what you see. So as an overseer, you have foresight, but you also have um like insight. But most people on team, they just have hindsight. All they can see is maybe just what they've been through, yeah. The churches that they've come from. And that's why they have to trust in your leadership because they have foresight. That's what it means to be an overseer. So I see something with this conference that you don't know at yet. I see something with this album release that you don't know yet. I see something with this other campus. And yes, it's gonna be a stretch. I'm gonna take this church and I'm gonna divide it by two, and I'm gonna send 300 people out. And you just got a team leader that you've been working with for three, and but now I'm sending him out somewhere and you're starting from ground zero. Do you really want to be a part of a move of God or not? This one's good for me and you, even if it ain't good for nobody else. I feel we're venting on this podcast. But I think like we said, it's a leadership podcast. This is leadership.

SPEAKER_02

It is.

Ken Claytor

If you're a person that don't want to accomplish much and carry the glory, you probably just move on from this podcast. You don't care about promotion. But for those of you all who are leading a church, for those of you all who are growing a business, for those of you all who had a big dream and a big vision, these are the principles that are important to lean into. And so, what does the Bible say about promotion? It says that promotion comes in Psalms 75 and 6, neither from the east nor from the west, but God is the judge. He puteth one down and he sets up another. What it means to me is that people can block you, but they can't stop you.

Tabatha Claytor

Come on.

Ken Claytor

Colossians chapter 2 and 23, it says, Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart as working unto the Lord. And that's a key for second chair leaders, whatever you do. And that's what we've done. Like everything I do, I'm doing it as unto the Lord. And so that means that we have a level of excellence in all the things that we do. And so here's a few warning signs for everybody. And these are like things not to do. Never get bitter. Because bitterness makes you act weird and everybody can feel it. It's just this weird vibe on the team. Don't compare. Comparison kills joy and it makes you insecure. Don't compare your salary to somebody else's salary, your somebody's opportunity to somebody else's opportunity, your relationship to somebody else's relationship, what God has for you is for you. Don't perform. When you perform for approval, you'll burn out. And a lot of people are performing. You don't need to perform, just be your authentic self. We were headed for divorce, but today we're best friends. We're Ken and Tabitha. We've been married for 26 years, and honestly, it's been the best 24 years of my life. You do the math. The first two years was absolutely horrible, but now Tabitha, she got herself together and things are much better.

Tabatha Claytor

Hey, you know that's half true. But we believe any marriage can change with the right tools. In our new book, Butterfly Love, we share our love story of 26 years. It isn't what you think, and it's exactly what you think all at the same time. It's beautiful beginnings, messy middles, and a miracle we didn't see coming.

Ken Claytor

If you love rom-coms, romance novels, you'll love this book. Butterfly Love is easy. Keeping the butterflies, not so much. We want to help you fall in love, stay in love, and grow in love. This book right here, this is for you. Get your copy today. Man, I got some ideas about how to get promoted.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. Anything jumping off the top of your head that uh no the number one thing is just asking, finding out from your employer, what is the vision? You know, what do you see? What are your goals in the future?

Ken Claytor

And how can I help you?

Tabatha Claytor

And how can I help you get there?

Ken Claytor

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

How can I make things easier for you? If you can find out what the vision is, yeah, then you can push that vision. You're going to be invaluable.

Ken Claytor

Well, and that's better than pushing your own vision.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And I think that's what a lot of people do. Like, okay, I can do that. Let me go get a vision. But is that vision in congruence with the vision of the house?

Tabatha Claytor

I believe God honors that as well. You know, even outside in the secular world, when you come in and you take a job, it's some, there's a vision there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

Like, what are we supposed to be doing here? Sometimes, and most of the time, I think we get into a we come become a part of that company and we're only thinking about our business, our our our vision. This is what I want to do in my life, and I wanted to be here by this time. And this is, you know, what this is going to produce for me in my life. Yeah. And that's all good.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

But if you can honor the vision and push the vision, I believe that that's going to not only get you naturally with your boss promoted, but I believe God promotes that even spiritually.

Ken Claytor

I hear two things. Number one, the scripture says if you can be faithful over another man, God will give you your own. So before we were ever pastors, I was faithful over my pastor's church as if it was my own. Yes. That's very important. And um, number two, I forgot the second thing I was gonna say, but maybe it'll come back later. Yeah. But let's go through a few keys of how to get promoted. Here's the practical part. Tell me what you think. All right. For those of you all, are you still with us? Let us know in the comments what's what stuck out to you. We would love to hear from you very quickly. Let us know what stuck out to you. We're getting you ready for promoting promotion. Here it is. How to get promoted. Um, here's the thought become excellent at your current assignment. Okay. If you can't manage little, you won't be able to manage much. So just understand that the keys to promotion is God looks at how you handle the little before he gives you more. So can you handle the little? So when we started off in ministry, we were in a rec center, we didn't have a building. So it was like, how can you manage the the 20 people that are coming? Can we steward little things well?

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

Number two, solve problems without being asked. Bring your boss solutions, not complaints. This is a good one. Bring your boss solutions, not just complaints. Um people think that identifying a problem is a spiritual gift. It doesn't take you don't have to have any real certain gifting to identify problems. Like if I go into a restaurant, I can see the problems. The bathroom's not clean, the music is too loud, the customer services. You can come into a church and say, Well, what about this? And whatever. Anybody can identify problems, but will you be a part of the solution? Identifying the problem is the easy part. That's the easy part. Anybody can do that. My 14-year-old can do that.

Tabatha Claytor

And and they probably know that the problem, your boss knows that the problem exists.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, he doesn't have time, he don't have resources, he don't have the help to fix it.

Tabatha Claytor

And so the solution to that is here it is. Um, okay, I see that there's a problem here. Um, we have these results, A, B, C. I have a couple of solutions. Tell me what you think about these, A, B, C.

Ken Claytor

And then if they don't go with it, then what's your attitude on that?

Tabatha Claytor

Okay, well, that's great. You know, um uh stuck.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, man.

Tabatha Claytor

What I'm trying to say is like, you know, that's fine. And then my response is kind of communicating again. Okay, I was just trying to help. Um, let me know if there's something else that, you know, let me know if you ever want more information about that.

Ken Claytor

Absolutely. You hold your ideas with an open hand. Yeah. Listen, I'm the lead pastor of uh, you know, a nice size church. They only take 10% of my ideas, and I'm the lead pastor. I found it the whole thing. 10% of my ideas, I can sit around my board of directors or my executive team and come up with ideas, and only 10% of them will actually be used. Because any innovator, like I'm an idea magnet. Like, I got ideas for days. Don't put, if I go to another church, I'm like, oh, I'm in my notes. Oh, we could do this and we could do that. We ain't got the money to buy that$300,000 camera right now. We can't do that system right now with three people, you know? But I got ideas for days. But even me, 10% of my ideas get used, 90% of them, I got to put them on the shelf. How much more for a person who's a second chair leader?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And so here's an idea. Make your boss's job easy. That's promote promotable language. Here's one: be the most dependable person in the building. Be early, be ready, be consistent. That's a promotable character. Ask for feedback. What do I need to improve on to be ready for the next level? One of our campus pastors, his name is Freeman. Every time he preaches almost, Pastor, how did I do? Not like because he needs me to stroke his ego. He's trying to learn and get better. I love that kind of person. Give me some feedback. How can I improve? Learn to lead people even without authority. Encourage others, train others, help others to win. So if you need to be ordained, you know, people say, Well, I feel a call to pastor. Well, go pastor people. Like lead a small group, have a Bible study in your house. Don't wait on us. Yeah. To like, what we're gonna do, throw holy water or something on you and go pastor. You feel you're a prophet, get in prayer, prophesy to people. There's people at the Walmart and the Target all over the place, go prophesy to people. You're an evangelist? How many people you win Jesus this week? So, like to me, if you're called to do something, go do it, and then we will ordain your fruit. We will ordain. So we're looking at now, we have to be great fruit inspectors.

Tabatha Claytor

And so if you want to be promoted, start producing fruit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

And when you're the the fruit of promotion, as if you've already been promoted.

SPEAKER_02

That's good.

Tabatha Claytor

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I know what you're doing.

Tabatha Claytor

And so you're whoever needs to, your supervisor will see that, and then they will already promote you because it's it's it's evident there's fruit there.

Ken Claytor

How about this one? Build trust through integrity. No lying, no shortcuts, no gossip. How about this one? Control your emotions. Maturity is promotion ready. How about this one? Upgrade your skills, read, learn, take courses, get mentored. Yes. We've done, we've had to do, I'm doing it right now. I just signed up for a$15,000 nine-month mentorship class. And it's just me continuing to improve myself. Wow. And it's just, you know, there's a hundred pastors on this call, and we're all just learning from some of the world's best. And we get online and we just getting better. You know what I'm saying? No one's arrived here.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

Ken Claytor

But how about this one? Here's the last one. Let God shape your character because character keeps you getting promoted. Yeah. Any final thoughts there, babe?

Tabatha Claytor

I think everything that you just said, this is all a continual process. Like you said, no one arrives. You're not going to get 55 years old and then all of a sudden you're perfect. No, it's a continuing feeding yourself, growing yourself, growing in character, growing in love, growing in patience, all of the fruit of the spirit. Um, and if you can stay there, like God is already, you know, He's always moving. There's a plan in the earth, and He's moving His people so that we can be, you know, just kind of coordinated alongside with that plan. And I just don't want to get left behind.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

You know?

Ken Claytor

I will here's just a word of encouragement for someone who's watching. Um, if you're working at a company, just know that your supervisor and your boss is looking for the next person to promote. And it really should not be any reason why it could not be you. But they're looking for these qualities, somebody that will help them. You know, there are certain people that I even think about that it's almost like it doesn't matter how much I have to pay them, I want to pay them that just to keep them or promote them.

unknown

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

I'm saying that facetiously, of course, there's a certain amount I wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah. But it's almost like they have the kind of swag vibe and maturity that they can not demand, you know what I'm saying? But you don't want to let those people go. What I'm saying is that you can become one of those people. These attributes that we just shared with you the toughness, the character, the stability, the longevity, the covenant, the relationship, all of that stuff are actually qualities that anybody can have. So I don't care if you work for Apple, Google, Disney, it doesn't matter what it is. If the company is growing and not laying off, they are act they're looking for people that they can promote. And if you are in the church world, just know that your lead pastor is always looking for people that they can promote. People, and watch this, it might not happen overnight though, because one thing that you have to do is everyone has a process. One of the worst things you can do is somebody has all of the necessary ingredients that you think could be a great person, but you moved them too quickly. And you moved them through process, and because you moved them too quickly, there was something that was cracked in their foundation. So you can say, well, it just seems like my church just has leaders everywhere. Your gift will always make room for you. I've heard that for many years, even when I was, before I was a pastor. And amazing, I came in, wasn't even filled with the Holy Spirit, and we got filled with the Holy Spirit. I ended up on the board of directors because your gift will always make room for you. I ended up in the room with the senior pastors. Why? Because I knew how to humble myself and to serve and to be stable. And I just felt like these are just attributes. And maybe we should have talked about that more today, honestly. Like these are the things that we did before we were in positions of authority. And I just believe they're promotable qualities. So I don't know, babe, we're out of time for today, but I hope that you guys enjoyed it. If you enjoyed today, share this with somebody else. This is the kind of podcast that if you are a supervisor, you can bring your company around and y'all just talk about these promotable characters, these characteristics. If you are a um a ministry leader, bring your team, your small group, bring your staff together and just talk about promotable characteristics. We did this podcast just for you. We release a new podcast every Thursday at 3 p.m. If you're new to our audience, hit the subscribe button or hit the alert icon if you're watching on YouTube. And uh we hope you continue to do life with us. We would love to hear from you. So there's an email address and our show notes. Share your testimonies, what you liked about today, even what you didn't like. And uh, we'll just get better. That's all we're gonna do. We're just gonna get better. We just want to continue to serve you and to bring value to your life. If you're ever in Florida, come worship with us at a live church. We would love to see you there. Until next week, we'll see you soon. Peace.

Contributor

Ken Claytor

Host
Head Shot

Tabatha Claytor

Host