Doing Life with Ken and Tabatha

God’s Design For Sex

• Ken Claytor and Tabatha Claytor

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Most couples don’t break because they stop loving each other. They break because they stop feeling connected, and one of the fastest places that disconnection shows up is sexual intimacy. We go straight at the uncomfortable question many married Christians whisper but rarely say out loud: why does sex in marriage so often drift into frustration, avoidance, pressure, or a roommate vibe?

We unpack God’s design for sex with clarity and zero shame: yes, it’s for procreation, but it’s also for intimacy and real enjoyment. Tabitha shares how misconceptions, sexual trauma, and body insecurity can train your mind and body to shut down, and what it looks like to heal and renew your thinking so sex becomes safe, holy, and life-giving again. We also talk about how seasons like babies, stress, menopause, cancer recovery, and hormones affect libido, and when it’s wise to get medical help instead of suffering in silence.

Then we get practical about communication, feedback, and learning each other’s needs without ego or judgment. We explain why talking outside the bedroom matters, how emotional intimacy fuels physical intimacy, and how to stop using sex as a weapon. If you want a healthier Christian marriage, stronger connection, and a sex life that reflects covenant instead of conflict, this conversation gives you a roadmap.

Subscribe, share this with a married friend, and leave a review so more couples can find help. What’s one change you could make this week to fight for intimacy?

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Alive Conference 2026 Invitation

Ken Claytor

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The “Sucky Sex” Wake-Up Call

Ken Claytor

everybody, before we jump into today's episode, we wanted to bring back one of our most watched conversations on doing life with Ken and Tabitha. This episode really connected with so many people, and we believe it still has something powerful to say today. So whether you're watching it for the first time or revisiting it again, lean in and enjoy this episode. Most married people have sucky sex. When we start talking about sex, it is not for clicks, it's not to be risque. No, I'm talking about sex because I believe that this is hurting a lot of married couples, and it's sad to me to see these movies and people are just taking off the clothes and all of the fornication is just so passionate. And then you come over into the church world and people are cold and frigid. And husbands and wives that God created sex for, they don't know what they're doing.

Tabatha Claytor

I think it's because we don't understand God's design for sex. That's why I'm passionate about it because I had the wrong perspective. I didn't know what sex was. I had so many misconceptions. I had to overcome hurts from my past. I had to overcome and heal from sexual abuse. I had to overcome insecurities in my own body. But when I found out the truth about what sex is, then it freed me.

Ken Claytor

Hey, what's up, everybody?

Tabatha Claytor

Hey everyone.

Ken Claytor

Good to have you with us today. We have a bona fide classic for you today. Because we're going to dig and dive into this topic that we actually love to talk about, but we see it be a problem in so many marriages. Today we're going to talk about sex and specifically God's design for sex in marriage. And this is not going to be shame. It's not going to be pressure, but it's going to be, it's going to be a lot of revelation and hopefully also healing for you guys. And so thank you for joining us. We're Ken and Tabitha. We've been married for 26 years. And so we had a really bad marriage. It was headed for divorce. Um, we learned some tools. And so now we have a great marriage and we're best friends, and we love to just pay the tools forward because the same tools that we have can actually help other people's marriage. Okay. And so we have a book that's out. It's called Butterfly Love. All right. And this is a great book. This is not like your normal book. Um, this is like if you like romance comedy, rom-coms, if you like great love stories, you got you like great um lifetime movies, romantic movies, you're gonna like this. This is about a boy named Ken that fell in love with a girl named Tabitha, and we almost lost it all through our crazy season of life, but then God helped us restore it, and we got the butterflies back. And the butterfly season is really a season of infatuation. You know, when we got together, she could do absolutely no wrong. The butterflies and doorphins was moving, but those butterflies go away. And there's three stages to a relationship. You got the butterfly love stage, which is infatuation, and then you have the fight for power stage, and then you have mature love.

Shame, Misconceptions, And Church Silence

Ken Claytor

And most divorces happen in the fight for power stage, and the butterflies leave. We want to help you get the butterflies back and keep the butterflies. And so if you want to grab hold of our book, I think it will bless you. It is our story with principles in it. So if you do not like reading, I think you'll like this one. You can get through it in two and a half hours, I believe. And so, are you ready for the day, sweetheart?

Tabatha Claytor

Let's go.

Ken Claytor

God's design for sex and marriage. Okay. I want you guys, we now we want you to we want to hear from you on this one. I want you to comment on, you know, where your relationship is, questions that you might have. We'll do our best to get to those at some point. Okay. I want to start off today with this statement. Okay. Tell me how you feel about this. Most married people have sucky sex. They have a sucky sex life. It's one of those sex lives that's almost like it's okay. It's not there's somebody that's sexually frustrated in a relationship. Um, either she don't get enough, he don't get enough, somebody don't like what something doing, uh what what's going on, and they have settled for Sucky. And what we're saying is that you should not settle for Sucky in such an important area like your sex life. And so, um, talk to me about that. What what does that statement mean to you? Do you believe that that uh many couples have a sucky sex life?

Tabatha Claytor

I do believe it because I talk to many couples and it's it's evident.

Ken Claytor

And why is that?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, man, I I wish it wasn't so. Um, I think it's because we don't understand um, you know, God's design for sex. We don't understand the place for sex in our marriage.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

And that it is a good thing. I think there's a big misunderstanding, even in the Christian community, of what sex is and who it's for.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, and so I think if we really understood God's design for sex, we would value it more.

Ken Claytor

Um, how do you feel about talking about this topic? Is this a topic that you're like you look forward to, or you're like, oh man, here we go talking about sex again? Are you passionate about this? What's your what's your bend on it?

Tabatha Claytor

I would say I'm more passionate.

Ken Claytor

Uh-huh.

Tabatha Claytor

And I look forward to it because I think that a lot of people don't know. Right. They don't know that sex was created by God, that it is a good thing. And including myself, you know, I was um sexually abused um as a child. I had been in bad relationships. Um, I had sex before marriage. Um, and so sex was a dirty thing for me. It was something that I remember hearing the word virgin um as a child. And when the adults would talk about it, they would say, Well, she's a virgin. And they would whisper the word virgin. So I thought it was a bad thing, like, oh gosh, I don't want to be a virgin.

Ken Claytor

And actually, you know, good before marriage. Before you say I do, you should ask the question, do I?

Tabatha Claytor

Storms are going to come. Since they're going to come, you need to know what to do when they come. You need to be prepared.

Ken Claytor

We want to pay for the tools that you need to have a successful relationship.

Tabatha Claytor

This is the time that you say, Am I doing the right thing? And when you decide that you're doing the right thing, you will know it at year five, at year ten, at year thirty.

Ken Claytor

You'll be able to go back and say, No, I entered into this sky's wide open. I had confirmation, I had mentorship. I gotta learn to love what God loves and hate what God hates. God hates divorce. And you gotta put it in your heart right now. This is gonna be something that we hate.

Tabatha Claytor

The Bible also calls marriage a holy institution.

Ken Claytor

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

And so this institution that we enter into, it is holy. It is to be upheld.

Ken Claytor

Satan hates anything that God's established. God's established marriage, he's established family, Satan wants to do everything he can. So if you think that you're fighting now, you're gonna fight a whole lot later. What we've done over the last 25 years is we've done everything together because there is power in agreement. We're just asking you to get eyes wide open. If we don't put God in front of this relationship, it might not be built to last.

Tabatha Claytor

That's why I'm passionate about it because I had the wrong perspective. I didn't know what sex was. I thought it was this dirty thing. You did it just, you know, it didn't matter. You know, I had so many misconceptions. Um, but when I found out the truth about what sex is, right, then it freed me. And I believe it helped us even in our marriage. Well, 100% husband and wife, our relationship, um, it it did us so much good that I'm passionate about letting other people know the truth.

Ken Claytor

Oh, well, that's what I was gonna ask you. Did you feel like it helped our marriage and like you, and that's why you're passionate? Yes. Because that's why I'm passionate. So I'm glad to hear you say that because I feel the same way. So for me, when we start talking about sex, it is not for clicks. It's not for like to be risque or to try to be out there like, oh, we're talking about sex. Yeah. No, I'm talking about sex because I believe that this is hurting a lot of married couples. And if we can get this, I just have a passion not to see the world have better sex than people in church. Right. It's sad to me to see um these movies and people are just taking off the clothes and all of the fornication is just so passionate. And then you come over into the church world and people are cold and frigid, and husbands and wives that God created sex for, they don't know what they're doing. Yeah. And so for us, um the first five years of our marriage, maybe no, maybe not that long, maybe three, um, our sex life was it it was good, but it wasn't like what it could be.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And so we at the church that we went to, there was a pastor that was on staff that we had heard through the grapevine that they were like sex experts. Like you could sit down and talk with them, and they would just help you in your sex life. So in our probably mid-20s, we set up a meeting with Pastor So-and-so, and we was like, We need you and your wife to teach us everything you know about sex. Them people blessed us. They brought out a chart, taught us where per certain body parts were, taught us, taught us all kinds of different things from a biblical and a spiritual perspective. And it really just helped us. So now, yeah, I am passionate. I'm passionate, not for likes, not to be risque. Because honestly, even this podcast that we have, the reason that we started this podcast was simply because we knew that God had done so many different things in our marriage, and we simply wanted an avenue to be able to pay it for it. And so there were years that went by where we're like, okay, what are we going to do? Because we feel like we have so much information that can help people, but we don't have an avenue to really talk about the nitty-gritty. Right. Like Sunday mornings, this ain't a Sunday morning conversation. And so we had this idea of a podcast. And at the time, I didn't even listen to podcasts. I didn't have like, let's do a podcast so I can build a platform or make money. Matter of fact, the first six months of our podcast, we had the income generators turned off. We didn't even know they existed. We didn't know that if your videos get popular, that YouTube would send you money. So we actually had it swiped to the right, meaning that we didn't even have that turned on.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

So I guess what I'm saying is that we don't have topics for um we don't we don't do topics or have our podcasts for likes or for money or for revenue. This has always been just to help people. And this is an area that can really help people.

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

All right. So

Three Purposes God Made Sex

Ken Claytor

God made sex for three major reasons. And I think when it comes to understanding God's design, it's important for us to know why he even created sex. Number one is for procreation so that we can be fruitful and multiply. So the will of God is that we replenish the earth, and so we gotta have kids to be able to do that. But number two, it's for intimacy between husband and wife. And that's very important because a sexless marriage, you can become roommates. The closeness is not there. There is something that happens in sex where there is a soul tie, and this is a healthy soul tie between a husband and wife and intimacy. But the third one is the one that a lot of people don't know. God created sex to be enjoyed between husband and wife. And if you read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you might not catch that. You got to go over to the Songs of Solomon and you'll get it. And the Songs of Solomon is a little freaky. It's a little like uh put on your red dress, kind of a kind of a book. It's a it's a I I like the some of the language is so what is the language when it's like imagery? Like I'm gonna climb up the tree and get the hold of the coconuts, and it talks about how he he he blew on my garden. And you you know, let your mind go wild with what that means. But I believe that there is an enjoyment to sex. Now, if you're the person that's just going into sex to have babies, then you're making it functional only. And that's cool, right? But it's not all. Yeah. When you read the songs of Solomon, you'll see a tone of enjoying in this romance. And I am of the mindset that the world should not be having better sex than those who live holy and love God and are worshiping the one that made marriage and also made the institution of you know, of sex.

Tabatha Claytor

Right. So God created sex and he could have created it to have no feeling at all. And you just, if you want to have a baby, you have sex and you have a baby, right? He could have just made it like that. They didn't have to be any feelings that, you know, involved with it, but he gave he made it feel good. He made it great. Yes, he made it enjoyable for us. And so I think that's a gift and that's a blessing. And the Song of Solomon clearly tells us that. And so now what that tells me as a married woman is like there's no shame in me wanting to have sex with my husband. There's no shame in me feeling sexual feelings toward my husband. Sex is a holy thing now because it's created by God who is holy and there is no evil or darkness in him. And so now I just view it completely differently.

Ken Claytor

I look at it like I almost see in the spirit, it's almost like when some people think about sex, now they might not even say this consciously, but subconsciously, it's almost like when they think about sex, it still falls on the worldly side of their ledger as taboo, nasty. And for some people, it's not even nasty, it's just something that I was told so long not to have it. Right. So, of course, sex is designed for a married man and a married woman. Okay. But before you get married, the Bible talks about abstaining. And so there are some people who have abstained for whatever amount of time, but now they've built their nervous system to no, no, no, no, no. Then they get married. Then they gotta flip their nervous system over to yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and my body is not mine, and it's always gotta be open and ready to go. That's hard for some people to make that transition. And I I want to talk like I want you to keep it like 100, like really, really real of what your perspective is as a wife, because in my opinion, you do this very well. I'm never in need as a man. I'm always taken care of as a husband. Matter of fact, um, if I'm ever traveling somewhere, when I come home, you let me know, hey baby, you back? Thank God you're back. Here you go. It's always, it's uh it's never, it's it's almost like a we've built a culture, you know. If you know that I'm gonna go away, like I'm going on a mission field, you're not gonna send me out without making sure that I'm taken care of. I want to make sure that you're taken care of. So I kind of want to just to say, like, this is an area that you do really well in. Can you just teach us and like tell us like what's your mindset behind sex as a whole? Yeah. Like how have I sure you had it on this side of the ledger? Nasty, dirty, bad, molestation, rape, things you've been through. But now it's over on this side of the ledger, holy, good worship, enjoyable fun. Drop it like it's hot. Let's have fun, Daddy. Come on. And you still love Jesus. Tell me. Yes, tell us.

Healing Trauma Through Mind Renewal

Tabatha Claytor

I think there's a renewing of the mind that has to take place in probably most people when you get married towards sex. Now you renew, we renew our mind in so many different areas, and sex is one of them. And so when I renewed my mind to the truth of what sex is, well, this is something that I welcomed into my life. Okay. Sex was used as a weapon against me. Sex is used as a weapon against so many other people in the world. I mean, when we think about music, when we think about, you know, the arts of and and and it's uh a weapon used against many women, but on the same token, it's also a weapon used against some man.

Ken Claytor

And there's a lot of men that I talk to that have been molested as young boys. Yes. So that's something to take in consideration. So now you gotta overcome past trauma to have healthy sex lives. Yes. We were headed for divorce, but today we're best friends. We're Ken and Tabitha. We've been married for 26 years, and honestly, it's been the best 24 years of my life. You do the math. The first two years was absolutely horrible, but now Tabitha, she got herself together and things are much better.

Tabatha Claytor

Hey, you know that's half true. But we believe any marriage can change with the right tools. In our new book, Butterfly Love, we share our love story of 26 years. It isn't what you think, and it's exactly what you think all at the same time. It's beautiful beginnings, messy middles, and a miracle we didn't see coming.

Ken Claytor

If you love rom-coms, romance novels, you'll love this book. Butterfly Love is easy. Keeping the butterflies, not so much. We want to help you fall in love, stay in love, and grow in love. This book right here, this is for you. Get your copy today.

Tabatha Claytor

And so we renew our mind to get all of those evil things that God never intended sex to be like that.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

He intended it to be so enjoyable that something that consummates the marriage, like that covenant relationship between a husband and a wife. And then sex brings forth such beautiful fruit. It's another human being, another life comes through sex. And so I think God's intent for it was all good, no evil in it, nothing bad. And so I embrace that. So then I had to renew my mind when it comes to like, okay, well, I don't, the Bible says that not to deprive one another, not to neglect one another of our um ability to have sex with one another, right? And so we're not to deny one another. And so, how do I incorporate that into my life? How do I always have an open door? I had to renew my mind. And some of those things I had to deal with insecurities.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

I had to overcome hurts from my past.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

I had to overcome, like, okay, sex is not bad. It's good. I had to overcome and heal from sexual abuse. I had to overcome insecurities in my own body.

Ken Claytor

Okay, well, let me stop you right there because I want to ask you how.

Tabatha Claytor

Okay.

Ken Claytor

How did you overcome insecurities?

Tabatha Claytor

Replacing negative, old, incorrect thoughts with new thoughts. Like what? And with the word. I'm fearfully and wonderfully made in the express image of God. I am beautiful. My husband loves me. He loves my body. I love my body.

Ken Claytor

Okay, stop right there. How do you view your body?

Tabatha Claytor

I view my body as created by God. I view my body as beautiful. It gave birth. It has the ability to give birth.

Ken Claytor

But what if you gain weight and what if you've had surgeries?

Tabatha Claytor

I've learned and it's all a process. So I came to a point and said, okay, I love my body. It's beautiful. And I feel very confident in my sex life. And then I got pregnant and had a baby. And then I felt like, I don't know about this body. Look at it. It don't look the same way it did. And then I had to renew my mind again. No, my body's even more beautiful than what it was. I have these stretch marks, but these stretch marks are evident that I gave life through this body. My body was created and designed to give life. Okay. And so then I got cancer, had a mastectomy, and my breast cut off. And then I said, Oh, I don't know about this body anymore. And I had to renew my mind again. No, my body is fearfully and wonderfully made. It might not look the way that it did, but it's still beautiful. And I'm I I thank God that this body survived the attack that came upon it. And my husband loves me anyway. You know, like any good thought I can feed myself.

Ken Claytor

So that's Philippians 4, maybe verse 8. Um, think on things that are lovely, pure, and of good rapport. If there's anything that you're gonna think about, it's not gonna be shame and guilt, and I'm not worthy, and I'm this and I'm that, because all of those things are gonna cause you to close up. And then sex is one of those things where you have to open up.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes, you have to be vulnerable.

Ken Claytor

Okay. Um, talk to me then about how you overcame the past trauma. So there's been date rape and there's been molestation. So it's easy to put sex on bad, but you've brought it over here. How'd you do that?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, again, through that definition and you know, like knowing that it's good and talking to myself, okay. Sex is a good thing.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

And my husband loves me. He's not gonna hurt me. He's for me. I had to retrain when my husband touches me, his touch, it's it's good. It's never to harm me, it's to protect me. It's just now why do you say that?

Ken Claytor

Is there a time you thought touch was bad?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, because in in your body, your body psychology, your body has memories. And so sometimes I remember uh when we were first going through and I was healing through that um abuse and things like that. Yeah. And and there would be times where you would come and just even touch me to put your hand on me in an intimate way. It would make me feel like, oh wow, okay, what's that right there? Why am I turning away from you when I should be able to do that?

Ken Claytor

So it's almost like subconsciously. And I think that there's a lot of people that you have subconscious trauma. That you have not dealt with yet.

Tabatha Claytor

You have to face the trauma.

Ken Claytor

And you got to go after it. You got to contend for this.

Tabatha Claytor

You cannot say this. You cannot say, oh, I was, I was abused when I was little. Oh, I was molested. Oh, I got raped one time, and I just can't say my husband to touch me more. And no, I don't want to have sex because those things happened to me and now I'm a victim.

Ken Claytor

So now you're living in bondage when Jesus says, I've come to give you liberty and freedom. And you have to be willing to break out of the bondage. Anything else comes to mind there? So what is what is the rest of your perspective about sex? So we got overcoming trauma, we got renewing the mind. Anything else?

Tabatha Claytor

I think that also knowing that, you know, for me, you can be a woman or a man, because men have these some of these issues as well. But for me, I just embraced sex to say, okay, God, this is a gift to me and my husband in my marriage. And so I want to enjoy it. Right. Lord, help me enjoy sex.

Ken Claytor

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Help me, you know, enjoy my body and my husband's body.

Ken Claytor

Can we talk about that? Because many times when we talk about sex, it almost sounds like um the woman is just trying to please the man. It's like the man always has to have sex, and the woman just needs to um allow him to because of what the Bible says. And that's whack. I think sex should be enjoyable between both persons. And it's the way that I love you and it's the way that you love me. And we don't believe in selfish sex where I'm just trying to go in to get my rocks off and you're trying to come in to get your needs. I'm going in to to meet your needs and to please you and to bring pleasure to you, and vice versa. Talk to me a little bit about that perspective.

Tabatha Claytor

I think

Mutual Pleasure And Honest Communication

Tabatha Claytor

if if if you if you're into marriage as a woman and you feel like, man, it's only about him. We have sex and he feels good and you don't enjoy it, or this isn't pleasurable to you, you have to go back. I encourage you, explore your your body again with your husband.

Ken Claytor

Explore your sexuality in a holy way.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes, like in a holy way. Like find out what feels good to you. Something feels good to you.

SPEAKER_03

We hope so. Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

Find out what that is. Um, well, I like it when you touch me like this. I don't like it when you touch me like that. Well, let's try something new because I don't like anything right now. So let's just explore and give yourself permission to be to laugh. Give yourself permission to just be human.

Ken Claytor

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

This isn't Hollywood.

Ken Claytor

I I guess so this stuff that we're teaching today is actually stuff that we actually live. So after our meeting that we had with the pastors, and now you can have a virtual meeting with us, is we said, okay, we're going to work on our sex life, which is very, very uncomfortable at first because basically you're going into the encounter and then you're saying, okay, did you like this or do you like that? And then she's saying, No, I don't like this. I don't like when you blew in my ear like that. You know, that might have turned somebody else on, but not me. And it's like, ooh. And it's almost like you're having certain conversations that can actually kill the mood. And if the mood is killed, we'll just jump back on it the next day. But what you're doing is you're gathering intel. So what the scripture says is that we dwell with our wife according to knowledge. And a lot of men, you don't know your wife enough. You know, you don't know her favorite flower, her favorite color. You don't know what turns her on. You don't know what she likes. You don't know what she doesn't like. You don't know how she feels. And so you're not able to please her because you just don't know her. So what you have to do is you got to go through a season, and this is not a long season. Now, we've been married for 26 years. We didn't get this information until about year three or year four. But what I learned back then, I please my wife still with today because I learned the intel about her body and who she is. And it was painful. This is what I'm saying. It was painful. It was hard conversations, it was uncomfortable conversations, it was like mood-killing conversations. But as I learned how to please her, then over the last 20 years, there's been no uncomfort because I know exactly what she likes.

Tabatha Claytor

I did want to talk about that and hear your perspective as we were going through these trials and errors, and I was saying, no, babe, I don't like that. You had to bounce back. Did that hurt your ego at all? Did you feel like I don't want to touch her because she don't like anything?

Ken Claytor

For me, it didn't. Because I'm like, okay, I didn't know you didn't like that. Yeah. I thought you liked it. It's cool. Note to self, I won't do that no more. There's certain things I won't say here, but there's certain things that I know you don't like that. And I'm still 20 years later, okay. Be careful with that. Be careful with that. Don't do that. She don't like that. You know what I'm saying? So to me, it was like, nah, it ain't personal. Like, you want to have a good sex life? I want to have a good sex life. Tell me what you like.

Tabatha Claytor

And I think also, I'll speak on the behalf of a woman. Sometimes you don't like something and you have to say it. So I've come comfortable with saying, hey, I want more of that or I want less of that. I don't want that at all. Like there's communication in it as well. And we have to become comfortable with communicating what our desires are and what we like. Because you like what you like and you don't like what you don't like.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to go back to the point, like, this is not a man thing. This is like a so what would you say to the woman who just doesn't enjoy sex? You know what I'm saying?

Tabatha Claytor

Like I would say that sex is a gift to you from God. Why would you not receive the gift that God has for you? You're rejecting, God is saying, here's a gift in your husband. This is your husband. You know, the gift is sex.

Ken Claytor

And you can only do this with him.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes, only with him. No one else in the world. It's you get to share this together like Christmas morning. It's every day, all day. We have to open this gift.

Ken Claytor

Even orgasms release something that's healthy for your body.

Tabatha Claytor

Um endorphins, maybe for your body.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, it's it's a good thing. So basically, it's going to produce intimacy, it's going to be um the fruit of your love, so to say, or like a tangible way of what you're expressing. I love you, and we get to have sex together. It is for enjoyment, it releases health benefits. So if you're saying that I don't like that, I think there's some real things to work through. Yeah. I'm not talking about if you're a person who has vaginal pain or if you're a person who has something, okay. Well, you're going to need to go to the doctor. Yes. And you're going to need to do everything you can do in the natural. Yes. If you need to get testosterone shots, man of God, don't be prideful. Go get your testosterone shots or pellets or whatever you need, okay? But for a person to say, I'm good with not liking it, I guess what I'm saying is that the amount of couples that we speak to, what we know is that the sexless marriage is a bad marriage. And you can say, well, no, I just don't need it like that. And he don't need it like that. No. No, that's not true. That's not true. We've seen it time and time again where that person goes and cheats.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And you would think that, why are you cheating? I didn't even think you cared that much about that. It's just that's what is like so important in the relationship. It's not okay that they cheated. I get it. But this is so important that you keep this area hot.

Tabatha Claytor

I can say this to you, but sometimes we've been through so many counseling sessions, right, with married couples where someone has cheated. And it always goes back to, well, where's your sex life? And they hadn't had sex in so long, sometimes years they haven't had sex. And then the person, one of them goes out and cheats. And in my mind, I'm always thinking, did you not expect this to happen? You are not having sex. Somebody's gonna say that.

Ken Claytor

And you didn't tell anybody. Don't tell you didn't tell your pastor, your mom, your dad. I mean, put a put put an anonymous thing on Facebook. Ask for some help from somebody. Like you haven't had sex in years. And this is not fictitious stuff that we're making up. Right. I'm talking about years. Right. People are not having sex and they want to know why there's no connection.

Tabatha Claytor

So there is a desire. There's there's a there's a physical desire, but there's that human, that connection, um, that that intimacy, you know, soul to soul, you know, that you have through sex that you can't get anywhere else. And yeah.

Ken Claytor

I guess hopefully you can hear our passion. I feel like we're just trying to be a pep rally for you to say, go have sex with your spouse, please. And work through all of your issues to where you can start to enjoy it. Yes. It has been given to you by God as a gift for you to enjoy. And if there's something hindering your enjoyment, don't just say it's okay, go figure that out.

Tabatha Claytor

Fight for it, fight for it. Women, um, we have, you know, PMS, we have babies, we have menopause, there's all of these things. Yeah. And and and we can talk to your doctors, talk to other women who have been there, done that. How did you get through it? There are natural approaches, there are medicinal approaches, there's all of these things, but we can fight for a healthy sex life with our husbands.

Creating A Marriage Where Desire Stays

Ken Claytor

So here's my perspective of my wife. Okay. I asked you your mindset. I wanted to see what you was gonna say. Here's just a few things that I jotted down. Okay. My perspective of your perspective of sex is that shop is never closed. It's always open. That liberates me as a man. I don't feel like we have to fight. Now, I'm not a dummy. I know if you're not feeling well, okay. Right. I know if, you know, we've been out at 2 a.m. in the morning. I'm not, I'm not a dummy. But at the same time, it's good to feel like, man, shop is always open. Um, I also wrote this down. She never lets me live on, um, go on trips or certain things without making sure I feel taken care of. Yeah. Like, not just what I want, like me taking care of because I got a need and I can't, I'm like some dog that needs to. No, no, no, no. Like, she wants to make sure she's taken care of before I leave. She wants to make sure that we've had this connection. Um, the way I view your mindset is that you also engage. Um, you don't just rubber fish it. Like we having sex and you just like just taking it. No, it's no rubber fishing in our sex life. There's a level of like, I can tell that you are enjoying it. I can tell this is something that you desire, something that you want. Even if it's in seasons, and we've had seasons, y'all. We, this is 26 years. We've been through multiple babies, cancer, um, menopause. So there's seasons that I know she's not feeling it like she used to feel it because of hysterectomy and different things that's happened, but still her heart is there, and I can feel that heart being there. And that means a lot. Um, she's really open to feedback, um, to adjust and improve. I've never had an attitude. So in our family meetings that we have, we have a section where we talk about sex and we just say, we always ask, how is it in that area? And that's to say, where we can give feedback. Hey, I just feel like we haven't been having sex enough, or I feel like this, that, and the other. And so, but if I ever present anything, I don't ever remember you saying, No, I'm not gonna do that. No, it's always okay, let me try to be better in that. And that's that's a mindset, okay? Um uh she's really lately, especially been very wise in the visual makeup of her man. So um, men by by God's design are visual, a little bit more visual than women, okay? So we are affected by what we see. That's why um, you know, magazines, billboards, uh social media, you got to be very careful, man of God, of what you're seeing. And so she has been coming to bed in things that are attractive. That is a word for somebody. Like at the end of the day, like I even if I didn't want to have sex, when she comes to bed and she's looking like she's looking, man, okay, what wow. You know, I'm a visual person. I've had a long day, you've had a long day. But look what I'm looking at right now. That is a huge thing. Yeah. And that's like a shift that you've made here over the last few months. I don't know where you bought these little outfits and these little nightgowns. It is not a t-shirt and sweats no more. It is now turned into something that's very attractive. Thank you.

Tabatha Claytor

I never was a t-shirt just on my defense.

Ken Claytor

Well, you were never that kind. Just a just a button. You know, like that.

Tabatha Claytor

But I've I've gone through some changes. I had to, you know, get it together.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. Are

Mentorship Mondays Invitation

Ken Claytor

you a senior leader, a second chair leader, or simply someone who's thinking about launching a church? If that's you, I want to personally invite you to be a part of the Global Pastors and Leaders Network. You know, I've been in ministry now 18, 19 years. We started with six people in the rec center, but on today, we have five locations in four cities in two different nations. We see over 4,000 people in regular attendance every single Sunday. And we want to pay it forward. People are asking me, Pastor Ken, how are you guys doing what you're doing at a live church? A lot of people want a shortcut to success. The only shortcut is mentorship. And so I'm starting a new thing called mentorship Mondays with Pastor Ken and Friends. We're launching a monthly Zoom call where I'm building real life ministry questions. I'm bringing some of our team along with us, we're opening up our playbook to really share with you what we do at a live church and how we're doing it. My team and I will be hosting this call every third Monday. If this resonates with you, and if you're hungry, humble, and know that God's just calling you to war, join us for the next call. We'll see you there.

How Sexlessness Breaks Connection

Ken Claytor

And I would give you one more. You don't come off like sex is just something for me, and that you got to put up with. I mean, this might be too much information, but even when you went through breast cancer, she had a double mastectomy. That means that you lose both breasts. And so she had tubes, but she still wanting to have sex. She wants to make sure that that area, like devil, you have tried to kill me in this area of my life, but you won't touch this area. That's right. That's a mindset. Golly, I want you to write books about this. Women of God, men of God, I want you to be helped in this. That's a mindset. Like, so for me, I fainted. Like, she's like, man, she got blood coming out of tubes. I'm like, baby, we can do that later. Let you just get healed up together.

Tabatha Claytor

I just wanted you to know.

Ken Claytor

Like, like it's the shop is still open, but I just wanted you to know. I'm fainting over here, like, nah. Because I'm visual and I'm seeing it. This done this don't look good, right? This is crazy right now.

Tabatha Claytor

Picking me up off the floor all the time.

Ken Claytor

Even though I've gone through chemotherapy and radiation, I'm not gonna let the devil steal that which God has gifted me. Oh man, stop it, y'all. Stop it. I I I need to hear from you. Yeah, what are you getting out of today's podcast? This is one that it has to be shared. It really does.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And so, why is this important? Because when sex is healthy in a marriage, connection is stronger, conflict is easier to resolve, affection increases, unity increases. Wow. But when sex is broken and neglected, insecurity grows, resentment grows, temptation grows, distance grows, and here's the danger. Many couples don't fall apart because of hatred, they fall apart because of disconnection. Wow. And sex keeps you connected. And so I kind of want to go through I have a few things. And I I got like two sections of things that I want to discuss, and y'all need this. My first one is what are the reasons that people have sucky sex life? You got together, and some of y'all was hot to try, and you were you were wrong. You were hot to try before you got married. Then you got married, and now you're frigid. Here's here's here's here's some reasons why. They act like roommates more than lovers. You know, they're living like roommates. She's not my roommate, she's my lover.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

Okay. They feel pressure and duty more than invitation and reward. One foul listen, one spouse feels pressured and the other one feels rejected. That's the devil at work in your relationship. The same thing. The lack of sex, one person feels pressured and the other person feels rejected.

unknown

Wow.

Ken Claytor

But I thought your body was not your own. I thought you the two became one. Um, body insecurity. We talked about that a little bit. Stress and exhaustion, kids work and responsibility. I'm just tired. That's a that's a big one. People are just tired. Are you tired? Are you tired? Yeah. I'm tired too. But we still gonna have good intimacy with one another.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, because we value it and we enjoy it. I think there's a lot of people tired, but they're still eating the chocolate cake at night. There's a lot of people tired, but they're still playing the video game.

Ken Claytor

What do you mean? It just don't mean enough to them.

Tabatha Claytor

It brings pleasure to them to eat the cake, to play the video game, to drink the drink. You will do what brings pleasure to you. And they have stopped finding pleasure in sex. They've stopped finding pleasure. And it might not be in the sex, but in the intimacy, you know, that comes from sex with the husband or wife.

Ken Claytor

I need people to help me with this one, please. In the comment, just tell me how does that happen. I I got things running through my mind, like someone doesn't have good hygiene, someone gained a lot of weight. Uh, this I I got some things in my mind, but still none of those things should stop you.

Tabatha Claytor

It shouldn't.

Ken Claytor

Because the two have become one. And my last one was unhealed wounds. We've talked about that a little bit as well. And so I kind of want to get into the how-to. Stop

Practical Steps To Improve Intimacy

Ken Claytor

me when anything sticks out to you that you want to interject. I do believe that there are people who are listening and watching right now that you know your sex life on a scale of one to ten is a two, three, four, and five, and you want to do something about it. You have come to the right place. And by the power of the Holy Spirit and just giving you some tools, you can change that tonight. Now I know it takes two people in this tango, so you might have to have a family meeting and come clean. But do your part.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

If you do your part well, I think God's going to deal with your spouse. Here's some how to improve your sex life. Number one, talk about it outside the bedroom. Not during an argument, not when you're mad, not right after rejection. Pick a calm moment.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. Uh I I love that. It gives you a safe space to talk about it when emotions aren't high. Um, and you can really just have good conversation.

Ken Claytor

Yeah. Number two, build emotional intimacy daily. If you want physical intimacy, don't ignore the emotional connection. I always tell people sex starts in the morning. Even if you're getting it at night, it starts with you're beautiful today. I love you, I respect you, I honor you. It's an emotional thing that turns into a physical thing. Number three, stop using sex as a weapon. When our marriage was horrible, I I would withhold, I would try to punish you through sex. No punishment, no manipulation, no game. Number four, learn each other's needs without judgment. Different drives don't mean you are ungodly or broken. It just means you need understanding. What happens is that somebody who wants to have sex every day marries somebody who's indifferent and can have it once a month. What do you do? Meet each other in the middle. And with that, maybe even not the middle, you need to come to the place. Here's my here's my my personal belief is that married couples should at least have sex once a month. At least. Okay. Now, whatever your uh uh what do I call it, your sex quotient rhythm is, you guys need to come together, okay? And say, is it every two days, every three days, every four days? My personal opinion is once a week. I can't give you a scripture, that's just what I see as being healthy, all right?

Tabatha Claytor

Wow. I'm just thinking if if I'm your wife, right? I'm your wife, and you come to me and you say, baby, I want to have sex more often. I think that that is the ultimate compliment. It's a compliment. Like, wow, my husband wants to have sex with me. You know, like that's such a compliment. Like, yay.

Ken Claytor

But you're looking at it through the eyes.

Tabatha Claytor

For me to be like, no.

Ken Claytor

That's not how it goes.

Tabatha Claytor

No, no, I don't want you to have sex with me. No.

Ken Claytor

What how it goes is that let's take the husband's role. The husband is not even saying that because shop has been closed down so much. So he's walking around um sexually frustrated and feeling like, I ain't even gonna say this because I done said this enough, and she still ain't even interested. So he's not, and he should deflated. He should be saying, I want to have sex with you more often in family meetings. This brother ain't having family meetings. He's not talking about his temptation, he's not talking about his needs, and the marriage sucks. That's what's happening. Yeah. So he's swallowing it up, and he's probably online and doing the other stuff like that because everyone needs an outlet. And if it's not a holy one, it'll be an unholy one. Um you gotta learn each other's needs without judgment. Um, you gotta remove shame from the conversation. If your spouse opens up, don't make them feel gross for having feelings. Um, you gotta protect your marriage from outside influences, be careful of flirting, social media, private texting, your work spouse connections, pornography, your fantasy life. Serve each other, not just physically. Sometimes just help around the house, romance, kindness, safety is what makes intimacy easier. One of the things that I I try to do is just make you feel so safe and so taken care of. So you being open is not hard. There are some men who haven't created enough security for openness to feel, it just doesn't feel safe. Yeah. You got to work through that, right? You got to create rhythms, not a strict schedule, like we're gonna do it every Friday. Do that if you got to, though, to get started. But we like organic sex, like we have a friskiness all the time. Always grabbing a booty or a booby or something. There's a friskiness all the time.

Tabatha Claytor

We want a fun life.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, don't, don't, don't.

Tabatha Claytor

We want to stay young and enjoy the gift that God's given us. Like you can be doll and just sit around the house and do nothing, and I don't know, sit with a nose in your book or just be buried watching Netflix all day, every day. But I want to enjoy my husband. Yeah.

Ken Claytor

I'll give you one more. Invite God into the moment, invite God into that part of your life. A lot of people got a Sunday God. I like a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 24, 7, 365 God.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You know.

unknown

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You know, I like to invite God. If you're if you're in a place where sex has been hard for you, you gotta invite God to heal your heart, to give you new perspectives, to renew your mind, to show you how to please your spouse. The Holy Spirit is a perfect helper and sex is not dirty. You invite God into that part of your life. So that's all I got, sweetheart.

Tabatha Claytor

That's really good.

Ken Claytor

I don't know. I just hope that today helps somebody.

Tabatha Claytor

I think we helped somebody.

Ken Claytor

You think so?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

If we did, you gotta let us know. We don't put ourselves out there, put all our business in the street.

Tabatha Claytor

We dug deep today.

Ken Claytor

You gotta let us know. Send us an email. Um, if you're a social media person, tag us. Let us know.

Anatomy, Orgasm, And A True Story

Ken Claytor

Um You need to f you need to find out where the clitoris is. I know that that's a crazy way to end the podcast, but it's true. Uh we did a sex podcast a while ago, and so one of the things the pastor did with us when he sat down with us all these years ago is he got out a body and he pointed at the a diagram. A diagram on on a piece of paper, and he taught me where the clitoris was. And really taught her because she didn't even know herself. And it was probably three, four ma years in our marriage, she never had an orgasm. And because statistically, most women, statistically, majority of women will have clitoris orgasm before like a deep vaginal orgasm. And so um man, when he taught us that, it changed my it changed our life. You know? And so um I was teaching maybe God sex, uh, one of our old podcasts, you can go bench watch this stuff, but um, I was teaching about the clitoris and how you stimulate a clitoris and how you take care of your woman and she comes first and all these principles that we've learned over the years. And there was a 68-year-old woman who's married to a 72-year-old man, and she said, I saw that podcast, and she said, for all these years, I'm 68 and my husband's 72. And but and since you taught us where the clitoris is, she said, We've been having the best sex of our life, and she sent me $200 in a mail. True story. She sent me a $200 check just to thank me. They're in their 70s, just for learning this stuff, and so to us it's not taboo, it's anatomy, it's how God made it. It's like, let's get good at it.

unknown

Wow.

Ken Claytor

Anyway, we're out of time for today. We gotta go, y'all. We love y'all. All right. Keep hanging out with us. We'll see you next Thursday.

SPEAKER_03

Peace.

Conference Testimonies Of Healing

SPEAKER_01

I just always thought that my suffering was in vain.

SPEAKER_06

I went through a lot of trauma, divorce.

SPEAKER_05

I had pacification of the Achilles.

SPEAKER_06

The drive down to Orlando from Gainesville, 10 pain. My pain was at a level 10. I told God, if you don't do something, I will have to go to the hospital.

SPEAKER_00

I've been waiting for you know missing piece on my Christian walk.

SPEAKER_06

I wanted to commit suicide.

SPEAKER_01

Coming to a live conference changed my life, and now I know my purpose.

SPEAKER_06

And I could feel the heat leaving my body. I've been overflowed with joy. In the masterclass of healing, my pain level went to a deal.

SPEAKER_00

Started blurting out things that I don't understand with the uh blessing of my prayer language.

SPEAKER_06

Every day has been another discovery. I didn't know I had it in myself, I didn't know I had in my faith. I'm just so grateful that my eyes are finally open.

SPEAKER_05

Now I don't have no pain at all, and I know that God still heals.

Contributor

Ken Claytor

Host
Head Shot

Tabatha Claytor

Host