Outworking the Problem ft. Brittany Drozd

“What fills your cup?”

A lifetime of reinforcing that “doing more” = “doing better”. Is the reason many of us find ourselves workaholics later in life.

But what is at the root? Is it perfectionism? Is it workaholism? How do you unpack the two and figure out how to grapple with each set of voices so you quiet them and show up fully in work and life.

Brittany takes us on her journey. It took a problem bigger than she could outwork (and a panic attack) – to hit the moment where workaholism (and perfectionism) weren’t working for her anymore.

Key Takeaways

• It takes different activities to complete your work-life balance. There isn’t ONE thing that fills your cup up.
• Find people who live a balanced life (according to your definition) and then ask them how they did it. 
• Entrepreneurship can be the doorway to releasing perfectionism - because good enough has to be good enough if we are going to stay in business.

Key Moments

{6:03} “Our patterns run deep, the way we show up, the things we do, the belief systems we hold, those were built over decades. And they were reinforced daily over decades. And so for me to think I was gonna make huge changes in 500 people from my desk at the office,  was delusional.”

{8:57} “It's not part of my identity that I would ever be fired or told I wasn't doing a good job. But that's what happened.”

{12:07} “Being an employee, it [workaholism] was more rewarded, almost. The reward path was clearer as an employee to support being a workaholic because if I did more, if I helped people out more, if I just kept saying yes, then I got positive rewards for it.”

{15:42} “Instead of making that energy and focus about me, I made it about being in service of others. And that felt so much better.”

{20:04} “What fills your cup? Like what do you engage in where you leave with better energy than you came into it?”


More about Brittany

Brittany empowers entrepreneurs and leaders to become confident leaders, build better teams, and catalyze culture change. She hosts a weekly podcast, Eye Openers, to share stories of overcoming challenges in running a small business and capitalizing on your best opportunities. Businesses hire Brittany to improve performance, develop leaders, and build company culture. Brittany is obsessed with mastering human motivation and perfecting business management. Away from the office, Brittany is a mom to two little girls and loves to kitesurf!

Get in touch with Brittany

Email: brittany@brittanydrozd.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittanydrozd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brittdrozd/

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Transcript

Jenny Lynne: 
Welcome to Death of a Workaholic, where other people's stories are a piece of your map. I'm your host Jenny Lynn, and I'm ready to take you on an adventure.
Welcome, welcome, Brittany Drozd to Death of a Workaholic. I am so so so excited because Brittany, you are such a whole and a beautiful person that embodies how do you bring together work and thinking and feeling and life all in one space and place? And not only do you do that for yourself, but you do that for others. So thank you so much. 

Brittany Drozd: 
Thank you for having me on and thanks for making this space for people because it's so important to hear other people's stories. 

Jenny Lynne: 
I wanna start at the beginning though. When did you realize that you were a workaholic? 

Brittany Drozd: 
Oh, I feel like I need to like to think about the rest of my day and what I'm gonna do after I open up all this stuff again, , I'll just need a good weightlifting session to work through it. I realized I was a workaholic at my first job out of grad school, where I was honestly like, you know, too big for my britches. Kind of like realized, oh my gosh. My perfectionist tendencies like cannot fix all these problems. So I had gone to social work school and I had actually done the macro track where you kind of go straight into running a program, and that for me was the Department of Mental Health in Massachusetts. So you know, nothing like going straight after a big problem and under-resourced department of a government agency. Being a kind of like idealist graduate student who just came out of academia. I mean, this is like a recipe for disaster. Actually, after I'm saying all this out loud, realizing who let me do that? like who said this is a good person for this job? But you know, I think I had displayed my work ethic and said, I'm gonna work on these issues until they're resolved. And the manager probably thought that was great, so she didn't have to work on them anymore. But I was responsible for 500 people in the community that had mental health issues and needed case workers, needed medical care, needed psychiatric care, had medications, had all kinds of transportation issues, and social emotional situations to be managed. Maybe some of us know one person like that, but just multiply that by 500 and um, that's what I was dealing with. That was the job that I walked into and I had really beautiful people that worked on my team. I'm so grateful for them. You know, people in. That kind of caregiving work.

They really do care. But at the same time, we were under-resourced and what they were looking for from us was seemingly impossible. So, even though I had these really awesome people, the messaging was always that we weren't doing enough or that we were failing. 

Jenny Lynne: 
Yeah. Hard to work. And was, was your, was the problem like trying to help those 500 people with the resources you had or did you have a deeper, like a deeper problem you were trying to solve in the world? was maybe coming out a little bit too. 

Brittany Drozd: 
Gee, Jenny, you know me so well. Way to pull that out. Yeah. I think if we're gonna just be totally super honest and get real, which is what this podcast is about, um, I have a mom who did not have the best childhood and if getting really down into my psyche, I think me going into psychology and mental healthcare, and it was all about wanting to.make things better for people, and I couldn't change my mom, but I saw how much having challenges and having not great caregivers really negatively impacts her whole life. And so I think part of my unconscious motivation was that, hey, I can give this to people. Like I can be a caring person. I can, I can help take care of them or fix things, and that will give them a better trajectory in their life.

And so beyond all of the like, um, policies and quality control stuff and, you know, and metrics we're trying to achieve on paper to get reimbursed by the state for our work. I also had this like be the change the world needs. Kinda like going on in the back of my head. Like, I will save all these people

Jenny Lynne: 
No, we had none. None. I used to call myself Joan of Ark, so I, I can't believe there was, like, I had a sword and I was thrown into battle.  Yeah. 

Brittany Drozd: 
Right. 

Jenny Lynne: 
So you had this moment where you realized that it, it's bigger than you. 

Brittany Drozd: 
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I had a moment where I realized, that I couldn't save all these people. Mm-hmm. and I couldn't change all these behaviors that were inflammatory for them in their life. So easy to say from the outside, but that was the perspective that I had. Like if this person would just. Stop eating the cupcakes, then their diabetes wouldn't flare up and they wouldn't be in the ER all the time. And then my case manager would know where they were and wouldn't have to go follow them around in the ER and do all these follow-ups. But that is literally what we were dealing with. Those things are really difficult to change cause there's a narrative behind them. For instance, this individual, I'm thinking of this example. He was 50 years old at the time that I was working with them. There was so much that had happened in their life that. I didn't have the time to know or come to understand, to even really stand a chance to make an impact or change the way that they decided and chose behaviors. Right. So it was really, I think, kind of eye-opening at that moment. Like, oh, I, if you just change this one thing, like that'll work. But oh my gosh, it was my first real kind of insight that our patterns run deep, the way we show up, the things we do, the belief systems we hold, those were built over decades. And they were reinforced daily over decades. And so for me to think I was gonna make huge changes in 500 people from my desk at the office, was delusional. Well intended. I really wanted the best for people. And this is what happens all the time, right? We have these great intentions, but we fall short. And that, unfortunately, we often see that falling short as our own failing, but it's not. And that's where we can get really stuck, right? As a workaholic, like, oh, I just need to do more.

If I just did more, then I could fix it. Mm-hmm. But that, that's not the case. It's not true. It was a belief system that I had held up until that point. And the truth is, I actually worked myself into a panic attack one day at work. We had an individual actually that had passed away, and it's tragic and people were really effective because my team had worked really closely with these individuals. It was obviously terrible to find out, and I had to think about taking care of my team. I had to think about how does this need to be managed because they had no other people in their life. So we were responsible for what happens after somebody dies and then on top of it, there was going to be an investigation, obviously led by the state as to figure out if we manage their care appropriately.

So then when that kind of stuff happens in these departments, everyone goes into panic mode to make sure, did we cross all of our T's and dot all of our i's right. It's so hard. Yeah, it's hard and it's the right thing to do. We need to take care of our people and make sure the standards of care were met. Um, but it, it became super stressful. And then I wanted to make these changes in the organization. I saw favoritism coming from the regional director down there was really toxic blaming and stuff. And then I was watching all of this as I was pushing for change and pushing for, like advocating for my team members, wanting them to have more resources, wanting some of these people to have a day off because of what they were experiencing and being told no, like that's not, no, they don't get one.

And so I was just so upset by how the team members weren't being cared for, but being asked to do more and more. And then I was watching the hammer coming down closer and closer to me and realizing, oh my gosh, these people are trying to push me out. And like in the midst of like a quality control meeting where we were making sure that person's chart their file was as it was supposed to be before the investigators came, I realized they were trying to pin this on me. Mm-hmm. . And that sent me into like sheer panic because as a perfectionist workaholic, right? Like it's not part of my identity that I would ever be fired or told I wasn't doing a good job. But that's what happened. That's what happened, that I actually went out on leave for having anxiety again, another identity. I thought, oh my gosh, who am I? Like what's happening? I can manage things. I can manage a lot of really hard things, and I couldn't manage this weird, manipulative, scapegoat thing that was happening along with my team meeting. Emotional support and care that they weren't receiving. It was like, it was so much and it literally sent me like into a panic attack in the parking lot. And thankfully I have a good support system at home. And my husband said, this is like actually why people take leave for things like this . And I remember literally asking his permission. Which is bizarre. Like I'm not that person, but I was, I literally was so ingrained to just work myself to death. That, and I, in the middle of a panic attack felt like I needed to ask someone's permission to take a break.

Jenny Lynne: 
Yeah. And it's also totally natural when everything's spiraling like that to just be like, I am not sure. It's the stopping of trusting ourselves. Right. We stop trusting ourselves. And that's the reality of how it can play out sometimes. But good for you, facing that challenge, getting what you needed to move forward.

So fast forward, how long did it take you to get from where you were to the point where you could say, you know what I, I am not a complete a workaholic anymore. Like it's still maybe something in the background, a little bit . Um, but I can be at choice with that and it's not who I am, it's just one voice in my head or one fabric of my story.

Brittany Drozd:
 Really great question. So they did fire me when I was on medical leave, which is a whole nother thing. I'll leave that there. But now, you know, over 10 years out I can say that. I'm glad that it happened that way because I probably would've stayed longer and tried to fix things more , cause that's what we do.So that moment really forced me to look at the identity I had built for myself, which at that time was really built on external validation. If we think about why are we working so hard, what? Why are we overperforming? What is the trophy that is that meaningful for us? And for me it was, I wanted that A plus. Like I mean, think about it, it's ingrained in us. This is how you succeed. This is what you need to do to get the A to get, oh, get the teacher's attention and all of that. Like I totally had that super built into my DNA and it was hard to change the fabric that you're, that you're made of. Right? And so I would say that it took me, it took entrepreneurship. I'm not sure if it was such an amount of time as it was the challenge that I then put in front of myself, which was completely different than the way I had experienced work life or vocation before. So being an employee, it was more rewarded, almost. The reward path was clearer as an employee to, to support being a workaholic because if I did more, if I helped people out more, if I just kept saying yes, then I got positive rewards for it.

I got that external validation, oh, she's so great. She's such a team player. Like that felt good. That was like a dopamine hit that I kept coming back for, right? But then when I left, I worked, I started my own practice and worked for myself. And those same reward systems don't exist like that in entrepreneurship. No one is there to give me a high five. And so in some ways, the benefit of overworking. Kind of went away or it just changed? It changed. Trust me, I'd never worked harder in my life than when I started my home business. The hours were there, but the motivations and the reward system was different. Mm-hmm. I didn't need the ways in which I would overwork before just doing all the small details, like squeezing that extra 10% out. I didn't do anymore because there was actually so much on my plate. I couldn't afford the time or the energy to sit and make my proposal perfect, because I had to move on and do the next thing.

Mm-hmm. . So in some ways that mental load of being an entrepreneur forced me to kind of like, let go of those perfectionist mm-hmm. attributes and by repeatedly and, and forcefully having to let go of some of the perfectionist tendencies and realizing I didn't die when I put out something that in my eyes wasn't perfect.
That really allowed me to begin exploring what might my identity look like? Who might I truly be if I let go of this external reward system that's been driving me for so long? 

Jenny Lynne: 
So you let go of your perfectionist first. Mm-hmm. . And once you did that, you were able to look at it differently about where you were getting that reinforcement from.

Brittany Drozd: 
Completely. And I'll just be perfectly clear, it was like tears at it, sleepless nights worrying what people would think of me. That's what it actually looked like, but it did go away to the level that I had it before. 

Jenny Lynne: 
Sometimes we like to fight that which we know we… 

Brittany Drozd: 
Well, it's scary. There's nothing scarier like, like changing your behavior is scary enough. Changing your identity, like changing the belief system you hold about yourself, that reinforces your self-worth. Like the reason why you exist on this earth like that is the scariest thing. 

Jenny Lynne: 
So you let go of being an A student. So what took its place? What became your motivation? 

Brittany Drozd: 
Hmm. So by creating my own practice and way that I could work with people, I actually created the freedom to serve people and create impact in the way that I initially wanted to mm-hmm.  So I still had what I would consider like a, a good motivation. I wanted to be in this helping profession mm-hmm. , but I was bound by other people's rules and policies and whatnot. And when I gave myself the freedom, I transitioned a lot of that energy I was using to be perfect and be rewarded and recognized for being perfect into figuring out what actually works best for people. So instead of making that energy and focus about me, I made it about being in service of others. Mm-hmm. , and that felt so much better. Mm-hmm.  It felt so much better to put that time and attention on them versus me trying to be perfect. So I used workaholism to support my perfection. My professionial habit, right? Like these things, like all kind of go together. And I realized that if I was perfect, that nobody could say anything bad about me. But once I realized, I think entrepreneurship is so messy and you have to do things all the time that you have no idea what you're doing. Mm-hmm. And so you have to be okay with like, not, not only not being perfect, but having it fail and having people have that happen publicly. And all you have to do is just start a YouTube channel and let random trolls just the, the most insane comments to you when you don't even know who they are. And they're actually like pretty anonymous, looking like from their profile.

All you gotta do is just do that and you'll get over the fear of like failing in public or being criticized. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm human. It still stings, but I also realize that that's about them, them being mean and critiquing me and saying like hurtful things is so much more about them. And so my fear of people doing that, was about me trying to control other people. And I already learned, I learned from that job that that wasn't possible and I needed to try to let that go. And so my workaholism and perfectionism was really about not having people have, given them any opportunity to say, I was wrong or not good enough, or whatever. Once I actually flip the table on that by saying, well, I'm gonna go do stuff I've never done before every single day, and work really hard at it and try to get better. Not only is that so humbling, but it exposes you, it opens you up to failure to having other people's publicly see that you didn't nail it or get it perfect or not be the best. The rewards of that, like actually getting it right sometimes and developing myself in building a, a business in support of other people that was actually effective, not the government system that they thought was helping people. Mm-hmm. those benefits far outweighed the weight of the risk. 

Jenny Lynne: 
Yeah. And so those benefits , how do you experience them today? 

Brittany Drozd: 
Oh man, I feel like I have the best job in the world. Don't tell anyone. I don't want them to take it. Mm-hmm. and I get to sit with people in the most intimate space. People share things with me that they are. Too afraid to share with anybody else. They have insights and realizations that change the way they see their whole world. Right? So when I work with somebody, it's not just about achieving a certain goal or getting a certain metric. Is that part of it? Yeah. We all live in the real world and we have to, I guess, perform at a certain level to either make money or support our employees or whatever. So don't get me wrong, shifting the way. See themselves or see what's possible for themselves or how amazing they already are. I can't think of a greater gift to witness in people, but also to help create for people. So I feel really blessed. I'm really grateful that this is the work that I'm passionate about and skilled at, and feel like it makes a difference. 

Jenny Lynne: 
One of my favorite quotes is Luck is the intersection of hard work and opportunity. Um, and that's, that is what it is. We work to get to the point, and then we are open. Our eyes are open to seeing what's possible so that we're ready to take advantage of it when it comes. So, absolutely. 

Brittany Drozd: 
Thank you. 

Jenny Lynne: 
By that definition, I'll, I'll give you a luck

Brittany Drozd: 
I love that definition. I'm taking that one too. 

Jenny Lynne: 
So, Brittany, that's your amazing work. What about this whole life thing? We talk about this work life integration. What does your whole life look and feel like now? 
 
Brittany Drozd: 
I know people hate this word, but it is so much more balanced. Mm-hmm. . So I, I think that family life can kind of force you into that. Um, I have two little kids. I have a lot of hobbies that really fill me up. I think the most important thing is to really look at. What fills your cup? Like what do you engage in where you leave with better energy than you came into it? Mm-hmm. and different days, different weeks will, will call out different parts of that. Like sometimes it's the day with my kids, sometimes it's not the day with my kids . Sometimes it's a day full of amazing meetings and in conversations like this, and sometimes that also wears me out, but it's about having different, like slices of the pie is the way that I think about it. Making sure you're well-rounded enough that you have different outlets, but also different resources to help fill your cup and notice what you need at different times.

Hmm. So sometimes for me that's like physical activity. Sometimes that's, You know, really pouring myself into work cuz there's a project I'm super excited about. I love those . That's okay. Like I don't wanna demonize them. Like if you love what you do, that's gonna happen sometimes. But then I definitely, like, I just came back from nine days off, but that is why I'm so thrilled about this week of work.It's all about striking an integration or a balance that works for you, but recognize that that's gonna change on a daily or weekly basis in honoring that.

Jenny Lynne: 
Yeah, because we change, right? Our identities can change . 

Brittany Drozd:
 Right. 

Jenny Lynne: 
So you got to this point, what is the one takeaway, the one thing that you would say, guys, if you are working to get past your workaholism and move beyond it, what is the one thing that they should do?

Brittany Drozd: 
The one thing that they should do? Is to surround themselves with people who are also on that same. Because if you are around other workaholics, that's a status that's gonna keep being reinforced for you. You're gonna compete about who's the bigger workaholic like, like that's such a thing in consulting.If you haven't slept in a week, like you are not on your A game, I try and reinforce that for the entrepreneurs I work with all the time. Like, Hey, it's not selfish to go take some time for yourself. That actually makes you better. And there's real science behind that. So the best thing to do is to either find that person, maybe you admire, or you're always wondering, how is that guy golfing on Thursday at 10:00 AM? Find that guy and talk to him. Find that woman who is smiling at the end of the work week and ask them what makes them tick and how they're achieving that. Surround yourself with people who have figured it out in a way that you can learn. 

Jenny Lynne: 
Wonderful suggestions. So I'm going to try to recap your map before we wrap up.
This is like one of my favorite parts. So what I heard is face the problem, head on, find a problem that you can't outwork, that forces you to really start to look at yourself in the mirror and innovate from that space of need. From there, you released one piece of your identity at a time and didn't try to tackle it all at once. Giving yourself the space to work through that. Yeah. And it sounds like that entrepreneurship was your turning point to say, okay, I now don't have a choice but to let go of some of these tendencies. Know what kind of life you want and what balance looks like for you, and then talk to people who have that balance so that you can help create it for yourself.
Did I get that? 

Brittany Drozd: 
Yeah. Really great listening stuff. 

Jenny Lynne: 
Synthesizing. I don't know if I'm a great listener, but that's one of my demons I will fully, fully, fully admit to. Well, guys, you heard it from Britney Drozd. Any final words of wisdom before we, uh, wrap up? 

Brittany Drozd: 
I think that you need to, along this path of building a new map is to be kind to yourself. We are so hard on ourselves, especially as workaholics and recovering perfectionists. Be kind to yourself. If you need a day of rest, just take it. That's not being lazy. It's what you need. So often we just ignore what we really need, um, in service of achieving the goal. So be nice to yourself along the way.

Jenny Lynne:  
Well said. Well said. All right. Brittany Drozd. She empowers entrepreneurs and leaders to become confident leaders, build better teams, and catalyze culture change.
You guys gotta follow Brittany. She is one of my favorites. If you can't tell already, you can follow her podcast eye openers or you can get in touch with her at her email or website that will be posted in the show notes. Thank you so very much for being here, and you guys have a great one. I hope you build your map.

Brittany Drozd: 
Thank you, Jenny.

Jenny Lynne: 
Thank you for joining us on Death of a Workaholic, where other people's stories are a piece of your map beyond workaholism. I'm your host, Jenny Lynn, and if this was a valuable addition to your map, then please like, subscribe or follow. Or sign up for my newsletter to get updates when new episodes are dropped.

You can reach out to me at podcast jenny lynn erickson.com, or you can go to my website, death of a workaholic.com. If you have a map that you think would be valuable for other people, then please reach out and see if we can book you on the show. That is podcast@jennylynnerickson.com or death of a workaholic.com, and I can't wait to see you on the next drop.