The Breakdown ft. Tabby Turnage

For the last episode of this season I thought it would be fun to recap with the one behind it all, my podcast producer, Tabby.

She carefully listened to all 10 episodes and took in everything. Each one was unique with a different story to tell.

After listening to them all, something happened, and then something else happened.

She found herself seeing workaholic traits in herself in the beginning, but  by the end she knew how to prevent it and manage those traits, just by hearing other people's stories.

That’s what we want for everyone.


Tune in to find out: 

• What’s next for season 2
• The top 3 episodes
• Key takeaways from the season

Key Moments

{02:58} “When I started this, I had just started working more hours and then when I like what I'm doing, I'm just excited about doing it. And so I wanted to work on the weekends. I wanted to do all this ‘cause I was so excited about it. And then as I kept listening to the episodes and getting the takeaways and the advice, it's caused me sort of to not,[work on the weekends] if that makes any sense. It was helpful.”

{08:59} “You hit the nail on the head as to why I got so passionate about workaholism in the first place. And that was because it took a crisis for me too actually, I was forced to change. And I talk about it as it wasn't a want, it was a need. I didn't have a choice.”

{18:17} “ There's nothing wrong with being a workaholic in your twenties. It's just about being aware of when it's driving you to the point where it's no longer serving you. Those you and those you love and the world, be aware of that.”

Get in on the Research

Your story and situation can help turbocharge a movement. Reach out to us at podcast@jennylynneerickson.com and we will get a conversation rolling.

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If you’re wondering what you need right now and how to manage your time, take the space test and see for yourself.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Death of a Workaholic, where other people's stories are a piece of your map. I'm your host Jenny Lynn, and I'm ready to take you on an adventure.

Jenny Lynne: Well hello. Hello everybody. I'm here with Tabby Turnage, who is the master behind the scenes, for this Death of a Workaholic podcast. Every single episode, has her hands on it as she's edited 'em and done the show notes and the social post, so she knows this podcast better than anyone else.

How you doing today, Tabby? 

Tabby Turnage: Good. Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. All these episodes are so interesting, so I can't wait to talk about 'em. 

Jenny Lynne: It's gonna be fun. So everybody, we are incredibly excited to wrap up season one of the podcast and season one. If you remember right, our theme was Birth of a Workaholic.

And we really focused on where people's workaholics came from. That was the start of every episode. So as we wrap up the season, Tabby and I are gonna do a debrief, talk about like the nuggets, like what are the nuggets we took away from this last season? What are some of the [00:01:00] questions we still have outstanding that we didn't get to dig into as much as we wanted to?

And give you just a little bit of a preview for season two. . Okay, so what was your favorite birth story? I have to know. 

Tabby Turnage: So I would have to say Britney's, cause hers was super relatable because, it talked about perfectionism and a lifetime of that. And it took basically, what'd she say, a panic attack for it to end or for her to make the change.

So, a lifetime of being perfect, getting the good grades and all that stuff. Look at me, the external validation. So yeah, her story I think was my favorite. 

Jenny Lynne: Yeah, and it's funny cuz you hit on what was probably the most surprising thing that emerged this season cuz I went into every episode not really knowing like quite , what was gonna get uncovered.

But I noticed a theme and that's that most people's workaholics started very young. It was generally not something that kind of came upon them later in life, but their experience or they were either [00:02:00] felt they were born that way or their experience led them to be that way at a very, very young age.

The exposure they had to their parents, the environment they were raised in, their role models. And then a lot of times it was things they loved, like things they were like this worked really well for other people. I admire this person and they did that, so I wanna emulate that. It wasn't all sad, you know?

Tabby Turnage: Yeah. Because I think Nadya, she was talking about summer camp, like in the summers her parents were like, oh, you gotta go, go, go. And you always have to be busy. Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh, I always had a job since I was 15 in the summers. And I'm like, can I work more? I had two jobs one time, just. I wanted to make money, so I just work.

Jenny Lynne: And I'm gonna put you on the spot cuz when we first started this, I don't know if I'm allowed to expose this. So if not you get to edit this out, you have the control and the power. So, when we first started, you didn't think you were a workaholic and then you started listening.

And I remember after a couple episodes in, you're like, Jenny, I think I'm a workaholic. 

Tabby Turnage: Yeah. So it's so weird because. When I started this, I had just started [00:03:00] working more hours and then when I like what I'm doing, I'm just excited about doing it. And so I wanted to work on the weekends. I wanted to do all this cuz I was so excited about it.

And then as I kept listening to the episodes and getting the takeaways and the advice, it's caused me sort of to not, if that makes any sense. Mm-hmm. I don't know. It was helpful. I think everyone needs to listen to the series because, I don't know, because I felt like I have the tendencies. You talked about anxiety and just like restlessness need to be moving, moving and doing something.

And so that's how I felt. And then all the takeaways are like, think about your priorities, and I have three kids, so obvious they are forced to be my priority. So, there's no reason to put them on the back burner for a job. Well, unless, unless you need money, obviously. But, um, yeah, put them first, especially working from home.

So, yeah, I don't know. It, it's a full circle for me. 

Jenny Lynne: That's [00:04:00] amazing. Uh, have you noticed since kind of making more of that space and really thinking about your priorities, have you noticed any shifts in your own work? 

Tabby Turnage: Yes. So I told you earlier.., not professional work that I told you earlier about making the Shutterfly booklet, I had someone else do it, so usually it would take me, uh, two weeks to make, okay.

So backstory, it would take me two weeks to make a photo book for my child's first year because I want it to be perfect. Like I want it done my way. I would never let anyone else do it, and the first one took me two weeks. And then actually just last night, I'm like, I really need to get this done cuz my third one is about to be one.

And I haven't even done my three year old's book yet. And so I don't have the time sit there and do it for two weeks. So I delegated it to shutter flies designers. So I mean even that, that's just a big deal. 

Jenny Lynne: I love it. No, I love it. I [00:05:00] love it. I've watched your pictures. You have a beautiful family, So it's exactly as you should be. 

Tabby Turnage: Thank you. 

Jenny Lynne: For us in our interchange, it's made it really easy for us to have a conversation about what is the priority right now.

And as they change and as they move, we focus on is it an episode or is it another marketing thing? 

 So you had a really good comment, that I really wanna call out, which is do we really have to work that hard?

Well, unless you need money. And I love that that call out because , I've been starting to do some research on this and, There is a portion of people that need to work for money. It's a financially motivated reason. And it is a smaller portion. What I was reading at least one study was 25% of people that consider themselves to be modern day workaholics, which is about half of working America according to this study. It's financially motivated. That is enough. Yeah, I wanna address it. And we didn't really address it that much in this season.

I did talk to a couple people who said that was one of their primary drivers behind how they became workaholics in the first place. I've talked to people who used to [00:06:00] work for that reason, but now they don't need to anymore. But they had, they haven't unlearned, the habit they learned when they needed to be making money.

But that's something I really wanna focus on in season two, is getting some people in on the horn. That are really comfortable talking about their financial situation, cuz I know it's an awkward topic, but the reality is, you know, I wanna start getting real about we, we work for a reason and it's to put food on the table.

And so what does that need to look like and how do we still put food on the table and still have that work ethic and drive that gets us to where we need to be without it tripping into workaholism. 

Tabby Turnage: Yeah, I think it was Jesse, the last episode, he was just talking about it and how he had four adopted kids, and he was a single father and he had to work to make money to support everybody.

And so I guess in that case, I don't know like he said, if you don't ask for help, I mean, you don't know how else to do 

it other than 

work, work, work. Mm-hmm. So that's tough. 

Jenny Lynne: Yeah. It is. , and it's interesting, when I was talking to people in a lot of [00:07:00] the interviews and in a lot of the research , there's really two reasons why people develop this relationship with work.

One is the desire to perform whatever that means, whatever success means to them, which can be defined very differently from person to person. And the other one is that financial and is those financial roots. And when they both come together, it can be super powerful. That was my cocktail. I had both of those.

I grew up in a, in a home where, financially it wasn't the most comfortable in the world. 

Yeah, 

Tabby Turnage: your parents, they. have a big Factor, in it Factor and 

And I've listened to all these 10 other people, and just the different point of views. I mean, you have to have an open mind. Yeah. To receive the help , it all comes together. 

Jenny Lynne: It does. And that is actually a great segue into next season. So when Tabby and I were putting our brains together, you know, my partner in crime here, we were trying to figure out what does the next, season need to look like?

And, where we landed is really starting with the turning point. So we've talked about the birth, but where is the moment where they faced their workaholic? And [00:08:00] we still have not named this thing, by the way, so we're, we're still trying to figure that one out right now. Um, but really what's that point where they faced it in the mirror and realized it wasn't working for them anymore?

So starting in the middle, the messy middle, and what that looks like. And we had some, some really fascinating messy middles come up this year. 

Tabby Turnage: Yes. Well, I'm not gonna name who we have interviewed, who's in queue right now. Mm-hmm. Once that, two-part segment airs, that'll be interesting because, I don't know, cause I've never been in the messy middle.

So hearing how other people feel, it's, it's sad. It's just so sad. And like they don't know what to do and they're confused and they're not aware of it, but they are, I don't know. And then people who have come out of it who were in the messy middle, it seemed like it was a, a crisis. Yeah.

Like they were at the bottom and then they made the change. So they should, recognize the signs and get help before a crisis happens. Like it shouldn't take that. 

Jenny Lynne: Yeah. Yeah. [00:09:00] You hit the nail in the head as to why I got so passionate about workaholism in the first place.

And that was because it took a crisis for me to actually, I, I was forced to change. And I talk about it as it wasn't a want, it was a need. I didn't have a choice. Um, and it was, it was hard, because you're essentially reworking your identity and a very short period of time so you can be successful at turning the ship around and getting it to where you need to go.

I talk to people who have, you know, had health issues and challenges, and now they don't have the energy. To be able to do the work that they need to, to make the money, to put the roof over their head. So it does become financial at that point. So now I have the added strain of financial layering onto a burnt out body that's having health issues and it just all compounds.

And suddenly their doctor's, like I had someone call me and say, my doctor said you gotta leave for five weeks. You don't have a choice. Like if you wanna make it, you gotta go take five weeks and reset. And you think about that when you're in a financially difficult situation and saying, gosh, now I've gotta step away.

It's tough. It's tough. 

Tabby Turnage: So the, my main reason for this [00:10:00] podcast, in addition to kind of earthing some great stories, is really because it is, it's just a whole lot of storytelling and it's a great way to meet people, before they ever identify even as a workaholic.

Jenny Lynne: . But like you went through Tabby, you heard that, and then , you saw yourself mirrored in some of the things. It didn't mean you, cuz you hadn't associated that with yourself before, but then you saw yourself mirrored and said, gosh, there is some adjustments I can make.

It didn't have to be a big thing. It didn't have to be a like, oh my gosh, I'm, you know, Broken, flawed, not working, fill in the blanks, none of those things. It's simply a recognition that, ooh, that that alignment's not quite there the way I want it to be. Let me realign. And so all the stuff we're doing is really like, how do we talk to people that don't necessarily identify as a workaholic, but that can see themselves in aspects of other people's stories?

So when I've talked to people, that's the first step is just to, is just to dig deeper. Guys, if you're not sure if you're a workaholic, and again, if you don't like the term, throw it away. I don't care. Call it [00:11:00] what you wanna call it. But if you have a to-do list running through your head when you're trying to, if you can't sit still, you are restless.

You have that whole striving mentality, you can't shut work off. When you walk away from work, , you struggle to kind of set these boundaries, then that's a good time to just stop and say, okay, well, How is that serving me right now? And start to ask yourself, okay, why? Because we like to tell ourselves stories and rationalize why we're showing up, if that makes sense, and saying, well, I've got this really big deadline and this really big project I've got going on.

Yes. But does one project run into the other? Do you stop and celebrate the win and just really soak it up? 

 It's that moment of recognition that, okay, this, this balance is not quite working, or it's working for now, but it's not gonna work forever. So how do I draw those lines, those boundaries to say, I'm gonna be in this space right now, but I can't be in that forever, so how long do I allow myself to be in it?

Tabby Turnage: Yeah, cuz I'm looking back thinking, I remember telling you, oh, I [00:12:00] was up late last night. I just kept thinking about all the things I can do for the podcast and all this stuff and I was just excited. I'm like, I don't need to be thinking about work right now. Like, it's nice, so I just need to shut it off.

And I have, it's just, it's all, it's very subtle. It's not some pivoting change , I think even just relating to certain characteristics would be a good step for them all. 

Jenny Lynne: Yeah. You also said something really powerful right there. You talked about how it's exciting and so what I hear from the people that we interview is a little bit of a mix.

Some people are like, I love that excitement. It's awesome. I wanna keep going on it. I was definitely that person I, my excitement, my speed, my drive was all just something that was like, this is amazing. And I would still say it is on occasion what I have learned though. Is that by creating space during the day, I get to have those moments during the day.

They're not in the middle of the night anymore. So, as an example, there are days where I don't work at typical schedule and at noon I'm sitting out in the back patio and I'm [00:13:00] sipping a cup of coffee and it's all flowing in. And all those same ideas that you were just talking about, that were hitting, you we're flowing in or Yeah, there might be nights that I work, because that is when inspiration struck, but then I'm taking days off.

It's, it's finding. How do you garnish and channel that excitement when it comes, but not let it drive your whole life. Because at some point , we burn out with that amount running through us all the time. So it's about really creating that balance and that space. Cuz when you start to run at that frenetic pace, you stop, the space for all those insights to emerge, you also don't wanna lose those great insights.

Like, if we're getting ideas, man, sometimes you just wanna jump on the train and go, there's nothing wrong with that. 

Tabby Turnage: We do our best work when we give ourselves space. So if you do not know the answer the best, like where, where are you going? And what's the best way to get there?

Jenny Lynne: That is when white space is more effective than focus space. If you have clarity on those two things, you know where you're going and the best way to get there, then focus space is the more, [00:14:00] most effective way to get the job done. And that means blocking off time for deep work and creating an environment in which you can actually focus, kind of hacking your brain a little bit to trick it into focusing.

Cuz lot of us, at least as entrepreneurs, a lot of us are 80 d. 

Tabby Turnage: Don't just work to work. Don't just sit on your computer and piddle around working. 

Jenny Lynne: Just so guilty of that. I was saying that the other day, you know, the, you know, it takes me sometimes an hour or two to get into my focus work because I'm distracted by email or by this, or by whatever thing.

And that's with all the hacks that I've put in place. So guys, we're human. Forgive yourself for all of the things that will eventually come as you work to change your habits. 

Tabby Turnage: And I think it's entrepreneurs because, I mean, I'm not one, I don't have a desire to be because it is hard

I hear everyone talking and it's almost like they're all forced to be a workaholic at some point, maybe. Mm-hmm. To get the business off the ground, get going. Yeah. So you have to work, work, work. And then [00:15:00] it's your business, it's your baby. So you're kind of almost forced, except Brittany, hers was different.

Because she said it forced her to let go of her habits, cuz she wasn't seeking approval for anyone. She's like, eh, it's my business. I'll do it when I want. So, I mean, that's the right attitude. 

Jenny Lynne: Yeah. 

So you hadn't mentioned something, you alluded to a new thing. We're gonna try this next season, which I am super excited about. So part of our new season is gonna be focusing on that middle, you know, that moment, and then what happened after that and what did people's journeys look like, in the weeks, months, or years following their breakthrough, whatever that looks like.

Was it a series of small things? Was it a big thing, but they had a breakthrough? And then what did that journey look like? For them to really find out what mattered in all this. And so what we decided we're gonna do this season is we're gonna start recording episodes with people who are Awesomely willing participants, who are really comfortable telling us their story when they're [00:16:00] in the middle of it.

So right around the time that they're realizing that they might be a workaholic and that their relationship with work might need to be revisited. So we're gonna actually try to do interviews with people that are in the heat of that messy middle. I jokingly say we try to interview people who are like 75% of the way through, so they're close enough to it that it still feels real and connected, but far enough out of it, they, they've got some insights.

 So this would be like really getting to people at , that 50% mark, we're kind of in it, we're in the thick of it, and then doing another interview. I'll stay in touch with them and then when they get through to the other side 

Interviewing them again to talk about what that journey and the progress has looked like. So we thought that might give you guys a really good, more in the moment. Look at what it feels like as well as, what does that process look like for people? How, you know, how clean is it? How long is it?

How messy is it? How quickly do some of these things work? What was the order they implemented? 

 So yeah, another thing we didn't, we didn't really talk about enough, in season one, but I've had an increasing number of interviews about this as well. Not [00:17:00] everybody knows their purpose. So there is a type of workaholic that did it for financial motivation or because it was what they were supposed to do and they never actually figured out who they were.

And so they hit this point in their lives. The work's not going so well. They're stressed out. They're burned out maybe because of the hours, but maybe even more because they just don't love their work anymore. And we haven't even started to cover that. However, I have interviewed, several people already with that.

, so we're gonna try to kind of put more of that in to season two and really start to get people a, a flavor of how they can answer that question. Because 

 there are so many people out there who don't have that clarity. They spent a lifetime wearing a mask. Uh, they hit their forties and fifties and they're like, what was it that, why am I doing this again? 

Tabby Turnage: Yeah. And that'll be a deep conversation cuz that's like your purpose of life and fulfillment.

And that was like the episode that I was having trouble editing. Cause I was like, oh gosh, this one is [00:18:00] hard. I mean, They just don't know what they want in life. And so it was hard. I could tell it was hard for you to interview because you've started realizing, oh no, they're in, they're in it. I can't really ask anything else, because they were just wondering, how do I fulfill my life?

There's nothing wrong. With being a workaholic in your twenties. It's just about being aware of when it's driving you to the point where it's no longer serving you. Those you and those you love and the world, be aware of that. That's all I ask. All right, so drum roll please. Time for fan favorites. We are going by the first 30 day metrics because we looked at a lot of different numbers, guys.

Jenny Lynne: And couldn't really get a, a good, clear one. This is the closest we came that aligned with the feedback that we received and kind of normalizes for, for different, patterns and viewing tendencies. So I wanna start with the third most favorites. And that we had, oh, we had such a close time. I'm gonna go four.

 Number. Three and four were one download apart.[00:19:00] So John Arms and Britney Dros, were our number four and three. Both episodes were absolutely amazing. I love John's concept around soak time and staying ahead of the bear. John's just a super present individual and it showed up.

He was a heck of a lot of fun to talk to. I don't know. What'd you think, Tabby? 

Tabby Turnage: She was great to listen to. He was on my top three. 

Jenny Lynne: There you go. I love it. I love it. Brittany. Brittany was so connected. Everyone kept writing me afterwards and saying, wow, what an amazing storyteller she is.

She just showed up. Showed up fully in that whole conversation and talking about, you know, how in different ways that you can figure out what kind of life you wanna lead and then how to start building towards that. 

Tabby Turnage: Yeah. She was very real and relatable and I think a lot of people like that. 

Jenny Lynne: Yep. And both of them mentioned panic techs by the way.

So any of you out there who have struggled with a panic attack at some point. You're in good company. There's a lot of us who have done gone through that, myself included.

 So, all right, let's go down to number. [00:20:00] I think we're at two. So the second, , most downloads, and we're not counting my pilot episode, by the way, guys.

 This would be Jennifer Fve. We love Jennifer's story. What was your favorite part of Jennifer's story?

Tabby Turnage: I liked hers cuz she said what we had talked about earlier. She was saying, you do have to work hard, but don't overwork it. Um, mm-hmm. And no one cares how much you're working.

They don't care just as long as it gets done. So if you work smarter, not harder. Mm-hmm. 

Jenny Lynne: Yeah. So hers was good. Yeah. She has an amazing presence about her good storyteller. And she has a really good book too. I've read. Alright. Janet Barrett was number one. So drum all guys. Number one was Janet Barrett. Now I really liked Janet's episode and here's why. She busted open the mental health topic guys with no fear. No fear. 

Tabby Turnage: She was the only one I think who actually [00:21:00] did that. She said she used work to numb her problems and.

Being mentally present and physically present. So that was a, that was an interesting way to look at it too. Yeah. And nobody else, so that's probably why it's higher up there. Yeah. 

Jenny Lynne: And her book has a lot of really practical tools as well as the podcast episode. And how to work through some of that. 

 All right guys, so those were the best of all right. So Tabby, what's your number one, what's your favorite episode? 

Tabby Turnage: So I liked Brittany and John's, they were my top three.

Mm-hmm. But I loved pennies. I liked hers a lot. She was the workhorse. And I think I liked her the best just because of my upbringing. And even my grandpa, he's like 82, 83, I don't even know. He is still working. Poor man. Like, he just works hard and he's just reliable and.

She wanted to be reliable. People relied on her to get things done. And I don't know, I liked hers. Yeah. 

Jenny Lynne: Yeah. And I, and I loved it cause they relied on her to get things done until she couldn't [00:22:00] because she had taken on too much. And I really love her concept of reset moments. And how do you take that step back in the moment?

It lines really well with some of the white space, stuff we talk about a lot. 

Tabby Turnage: Yeah. And she also said, be transparent to other people. Like, hey, I am a micromanager, so might come on too strong. Just let me know. And I like that because I like to be open and transparent with people. That's just. Some people might think I'm a little bit too open, but I like to put myself out there so people understand me better.

Jenny Lynne: You and me both. I, it's like I'm not gonna be perfect, but at least you know when I'm doing something, it's nodding that you like, hopefully takes a little the at people to hold you accountable. If they're like, well that's actually, you know, you can, you need to walk it back a little. You're like, ah, yeah, okay.

Okay. Got it. \

 Well, that was our season one. What's the top takeaway from the whole season if you were to, you know, helicopter back up, look at the 10 episodes, what's the number one thing that you took away?

 So my top takeaway I [00:23:00] think is what's most important first and how you want to be remembered and balancing it out. 

Tabby Turnage: Figure out what your priorities are and. Figure out a way to manage all of that. So it's just the work-life balance. The whole theme is what matters most to you, which maybe it is work, but for me, for a lot of people, it's their families and they're not putting them first.

So 

Jenny Lynne: that's awesome. I love that. I love that. My big kind of macro level takeaway was that everybody's story, there's a lot of common elements, but everybody's pattern is slightly unique, so be aware of your pattern and all of these great conversations

plus the dozens of others I've had that have not been on this podcast have helped me build a framework that now is gonna flex to the fact that your situation Tabby is not exactly the same as mine is not exactly the same as Britney's is not exactly the same as anyone else's. And that was a piece I was missing.

[00:24:00] I was trying to force things into something that was just a bit too common. And the more that I talk to people, the more I realize that yeah, there's some common elements and we can create a formula around it to say, with these common elements, this is your best path forward. But your situation, the unique combination of your things.

Is gonna be a little bit different from everyone else's. So embrace that. Take one thing, give it a whirl. And as you create that space in your world, you can do the next thing and the next thing. And the next thing. All right. Well, thank you so much Tabby. You guys will hear from me again in about a month, give or take, and I will be doing the pilot episode for season two, which I think we're just gonna call the messy middle.

Let's just own it. It's the messy middle. Yeah. Alrighty. There you guys go. Decision on the fly. And the first episode will be similar to the first episode of Season one. I will tell my story of my mess. Alright, and we will see you then.