Vetting Sources: Rotten Trees in the Carpenter Family

This episode challenges assumptions and forces Nancy to cross-reference documents to reveal the true lineage of a family.  In this DIY genealogy expedition, Kathleen delves into the mysteries of the Carpenter family, unearthing alias names and debunks relationships. Trees, census records, biographical sketches are riddled with errors!

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Hittin' the Bricks is produced through the not-for-profit, 501c3 TracingAncestors.org.
 

Transcript

Genealogy Research and Questioning Census Accuracy

John Brandt 0:00

Ladies and gentlemen from the depths of flyover country in the heartland of America, the Kansas City on the other side of the mighty MO, welcome to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen, the genealogy show that features your questions and her answers. I am John, your Humble Hubby Host, and on this episode, we'll be talking to Nancy Kirschner from the nebulously named Hawkeye State, the great state of Iowa. Now let's start Hittin' the Bricks. Okay so, Nancy, welcome to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen, with Nancy Kirschner, carpenter, is that correct?

Nancy Kirschner 0:35

Well, my maiden name was Downard.

John Brandt 0:37

Okay.

Nancy Kirschner 0:38

Carpenter is my dad's mother.

John Brandt 0:39

Okay.

Kathleen Brandt 0:40

And Kirschner is your husband, right, nancy? Yes, yes.

John Brandt 0:44

All right, so we're here with anybody want to tell me who? We're here with Nancy Kirschner.

Kathleen Brandt 0:51

We were here with Nancy.

John Brandt 0:52

Kirschner job. Oh okay, okay. Well, that's fine. I'm assuming there was a question.

Kathleen Brandt 0:58

Well, I know Nancy through the Iowa Genealogical Society. Tell us a little bit about yourself, nancy.

Nancy Kirschner 1:04

Well, I was born and raised here in Central Iowa. I worked for a CPA firm for 17 years but landed in Irbindale and just recently moved to Johnston to a townhouse, which is wonderful. I've started looking at my carpenter side and just kind of run into some issues and I'm hoping you can direct me.

John Brandt 1:27

So this is research on carpenters.

Kathleen Brandt 1:29

Again, Nancy, can you tell us how you're related to the carpenters?

Nancy Kirschner 1:33

My dad's mother was Alice Vila Carpenter, and then my great grandfather is the one that's kind of started tripping me up. They are both buried in Lucas County, iowa. Yeah, she was only five years old when he passed my great grandfather. And what were their names? Her name is Alice Vila Carpenter, married a Downard, and then my great grandfather was Eli Willard Carpenter.

Kathleen Brandt 2:06

Okay, so you're saying that he is the issue, correct?

Nancy Kirschner 2:09

Well, that's kind of where it started. And then back to his parents, which in Indiana, at one point there were two George Elizabeth Carpenters living in the area and people have mixed them together and I'm trying to sort that out.

John Brandt 2:28

Okay, I'm sorry because I have a question already. Who are we researching? I?

Kathleen Brandt 2:35

think we're going to let Nancy tell me exactly what her question is. We've been working on this for a while, but, nancy, if you could tell me what your exact question is, then that's what we're going to concentrate on today.

Nancy Kirschner 2:46

I think my question is going to be who are Eli Carpenter's parents?

John Brandt 2:53

And Eli, who's Eli Carpenter to you.

Nancy Kirschner 2:56

My great grandfather.

John Brandt 2:57

Your great grandfather, eli Carpenter, who are his parents. So we're looking for a great, great grandparents.

Kathleen Brandt 3:04

What do you know thus far, Nancy, about Eli and his family? I?

Nancy Kirschner 3:09

know that before they were in Iowa they were in Clay, owen County, indiana, and when they were there he was listed with George and Elizabeth, a brother George, a brother Joseph. And then there were twin boys, that was David and James.

Kathleen Brandt 3:30

Why don't we start with that? That particular information came from an 1860 census, correct? Yes, and that census was? Out of which county do you remember?

Nancy Kirschner 3:41

I believe it was either. I think it was Owen County, Indiana.

Kathleen Brandt 3:45

With that 1860 census and I want you to consider this is that everything on that census is incorrect.

Nancy Kirschner 3:53

I have a feeling.

Kathleen Brandt 3:54

Except names. The names are probably correct, the ages are probably close, the relationships are incorrect, the place of birth is incorrect For all of them. They say all of them are from Virginia and we know that's not true just through military records that you already had, or even information from Elijah Colfelt, who was also from that line and he gave us a little bit more information. I am not saying that Elijah Colfelt's information is any better. I am saying the 1860 census is not credible.

John Brandt 4:33

OK, Kathleen, why would that be?

Kathleen Brandt 4:35

Because anyone who answered that door could give the information. That means that if a 14-year-old kid answered the door, they're given the information as they know it or they think they know it. It also could mean it could have been a next door neighbor, and we happen to know in 1860, I believe they're living next to some Colfelt's, so it's possible that that's the person we do not know, the informant, and so when we look at census records we can't control who said what. All we can do is verify it.

John Brandt 5:08

And there are. That's interesting. So, even though it would be considered a primary source, yes, no, it is not.

Kathleen Brandt 5:14

It is a secondary source. It is one of our largest source that we use and rely on. That has the most mistakes. I think at one point that was definitely conversations within the genealogy society. We don't know who these informants are, we don't know where they got their information in, but by cross-referencing I can tell it's wrong and I'm going to back up a little bit more. Excuse me, I'm sorry, you're OK.

John Brandt 5:42

Have a frog in my face.

Kathleen Brandt 5:43

No, I ate fish.

John Brandt 5:45

Hold on one second. Do you need an epi-pen? Would you like to have cardiopulmonary resuscitation? Where are we with this Not necessary, not necessary, if you go blue, then I'll come over and check on you.

Kathleen Brandt 6:01

I shouldn't have eaten fish before lunch. But I am going to talk a little bit more about that family, because Eli is in the house listed as a son of George and Elizabeth. George and Elizabeth were married in 1824. I believe you have that marriage certificate also. Is that correct, nessie? Yes, did you have any red flags when you saw that marriage certificate compared to the 1860?

Nancy Kirschner 6:27

No, I mean I should have.

Kathleen Brandt 6:29

Yes, you should have. They were married in 1824. The first child listed is 1834, 1837. What happened to the children between 1824 and 1837?

John Brandt 6:44

It might have needed practice Kathleen. Not everybody can just have children Generally, it might have needed to work up the speed.

Kathleen Brandt 6:52

That's just one of the red flags I had. These children are old enough to be grandchildren. There's a whole generation that could be missing, and the only one that we can prove that George is a grandfather of is David. David tells us this is my grandparents, these are my parents In his military records. Right, and you saw?

John Brandt 7:15

that because you gave fit to me.

Kathleen Brandt 7:16

Yeah, and I do want to thank you for having pinching files, because pinching files is your starting point. The pinching file that you pulled on David Carpenter, who has later in life in alias, said he decided well, actually my real name was David Odie and Carpenter was my alias name because I took the name of my grandparents. That's what he says, and my grandfather was George, my grandmother was Elizabeth and we find Elizabeth's mate names in state biog or county biography I think it was. It also says that Rachel was David's sister, but Rachel's parents were George and Elizabeth in that particular biography, and we know that David's are not. We know that David says nope, my father is William Odie and Elizabeth Carpenter. Yes, so did you find that marriage record?

Nancy Kirschner 8:09

No, no, I do not, I do not. I found that information on David Odie Carpenter's. I thought it's exactly.

Kathleen Brandt 8:17

It is there in his marriage record. So the next step was for you to go and find. Well, who are these people?

Kathleen Brandt 8:24

Well, I did find these people for you, and that's the first thing that you're going to do to get started, even though it's not going to help much. I didn't think so. William Oder O-D-O-R. Married Elizabeth Carpenter on the 29th of July in 1843 in Montgomery County, indiana, and I will be giving you information on that marriage itself. They are not married, it looks like by 1850, or this whole family disappears in 1850. We don't really know what happens to William Oder, except the reason we do know that David probably used it as O-D, o-d-y is because the family is illiterate throughout and if you can see all of this on not only the 1860s but in later census. So my key to kind of helping you openness was to use the information you gave me but read into it, really analyze. Where were they, what were their ages, what was the relationship, what can be proven and not proven?

John Brandt 9:31

Hey, kathleen, let me ask you something Sure, at the beginning of this you know we realized that census were one secondary sources and two couldn't really trust them. And now I see you leaning on census information. So how is it that you trust some information but don't trust other information?

Kathleen Brandt 9:48

So I am only trusting one line of the 1860, and that is David Carpenter is in this house, who we know he names as his grand-parents.

John Brandt 10:01

Okay, so it's corroborated.

Kathleen Brandt 10:03

Exactly, but in 1860 it says it's his son, that these are his parents. We know that's not true.

Nancy Kirschner 10:09

Because he's literally denying it.

John Brandt 10:12

Yes exactly so you're using the previous statement made of by him to clean up the mess that's in that census.

Researching Family History

Kathleen Brandt 10:19

No, so actually I'm using the most recent. Nancy is great after the Civil War. She has pulled the pension records. She has information on a lot of things that happened in the 60s and forward. What she doesn't have is the 60s and before, and that's 1860s. So the first thing is to start with the 1860 census that she gave me and look at each line and see if I can, if I can, prove that it's accurate. At that point, what Nancy wants to do is go to other things that she knows, and that would be the provost's martial records.

Kathleen Brandt 10:56

People always think that they've done the military records by pulling the pension records or pulling what's online. But the provost's martial records actually is a census substitute where the provost's martial had people going door to door to find out all about the men who are fighting. Age Nancy, those records for you should be in Chicago. They will not be online, even though they do have provost's martial records online. That's correspondence. You want the five books and these books give descriptions. It tells you if there's a substitute. They tell you why they did not fight in a war. One of my question is where was Eli during the Civil War? Don't really know. So these kind of things have to be answered and I would say, start with that provost's martial record. Yeah, this family is a mess.

Kathleen Brandt 11:48

No, the family's fine. Someone died early. Yeah, some parents died. What happened to Elizabeth Carpenter? We don't know. But what we do know is you can't find missing people by looking for missing people. So the only way to find missing people is to find the people around them, their cluster. The second question I asked myself when I'm looking at your case, nancy, is what was going on in 1824 in Ohio and why were all these people settling there from everywhere? That area had military bounty lands for Virginia. We know that George Carpenter, who married Elizabeth Ruby in 1824, moved to Ohio, in the area where there are military survey land records being distributed, because there's someone has served in the military for Virginia. So one of the researches, nancy, you would do is to research the Virginia lands in Ohio and to find out if the 1824 land given to George Carpenter is your George Carpenter.

Kathleen Brandt 12:59

Now we're gonna hope it is, and the reason we're hoping it is is because then you can trace it and you can find out what happened to it. And as we're tracing land, you will be able to find out about the time he died, who got the land, and it will help you put that family unit together, because we didn't find probate records for him. That's not me, there aren't probate records, it just means we haven't found them so far. Does that help any? Yes, are you have any questions? Tell me your questions. I am looking at your face and your pockets are moving.

Kathleen Brandt 13:34

Yes, oh yeah, just getting a hold of these, looking at them and trying to find the land records and I will send you links on information so that you'll know how to trace it, or the land records of Ohio that was distributed by Virginia.

Nancy Kirschner 13:50

Now, are those US land records or just state?

Kathleen Brandt 13:54

That's a very good question, Nancy. That's a whole class in itself. How was land distributed in America? In this case, the government did not have money to pay for the Revolutionary War, but we were rich in land.

John Brandt 14:08

Okay, hang on a second. Now we're to the Revolutionary War.

Kathleen Brandt 14:11

Yes, because these people served from the Revolutionary War up to all the Indian Wars, whatever war I was up to 1824. So the government didn't have money to pay for the sojurs. But what we had was land to give to the sojurs and so that's how they paid the people who were fighting for America, fighting in the Indian Wars or fighting in the Revolutionary War. So the land records in Virginia that they had. They were given land away in Ohio and in Kentucky. Virginia land was pretty much exhausted but there was plenty of land in Ohio and Kentucky to give away.

John Brandt 14:51

So that's interesting is that they fueled the Westford expansion with land grants.

Kathleen Brandt 14:56

Yes, I can ask correct.

John Brandt 14:58

So fighting the East, living the West.

Kathleen Brandt 15:00

Pretty much, and that's the way all the Midwest is settled Kansas, missouri.

John Brandt 15:06

There's a show in that isn't there.

Kathleen Brandt 15:09

It has pretty much the truth. So what happens is they had to claim land. The state claimed land and said this land is for all those who fought for our wars and then, with that way, we can give it to our military guys. Well, 1824, remember the last? There was a big war in 1812, just a few years earlier. And these laws are getting passed and land is being accumulated. So will you? I mean sorry, George Carpenter is right in this timeframe and he's landing and marrying in this land area at the same time.

Kathleen Brandt 15:47

So Nancy's biggest concern, John, is, she said, a difficult era, For nothing was digitized. You have to dig, but, Nancy, you have a lot of places to go to for all your answers. I would love these kind of projects normally, because I would say oh, there's so much to learn and so much to do. You just cannot do it in a straight line. In your case, in order for you to find anything on Eli Carpenter and his parents, since we don't really know who his parents are, is to find what we do know, and that's George Carpenter. And George Carpenter was born in the 1700s, where Eli's in 1830s. So we're going to go through the whole family unit. We also know that George Carpenter was married to Elizabeth Ruby In that same area, Montgomery County, Ohio. That's where they were married. By the way, Nancy, it just came to me. There's a lot of information. I saw one on your tree, but there's some others that I've given you links to that you want to also add those documents to your tree. But Elizabeth Ruby at the time had three or four sisters who also got married In Montgomery County, Ohio within two years. One were the other.

Kathleen Brandt 17:09

In order for you to find your George and your family, you must follow the other families, and so you're going to look at the rubies. But with the rubies I double checked with your DNA, Nancy. You're related to all of them. There are the stouts and the roads and the levees and the silers. All of these are your cousins and DNA. They're all coming from Elizabeth Ruby's side. Wow, Interesting. You have to actually research all these people. You can't just research the carpenters because we don't know what, even what happened to them in 1850. And we don't know who those older kids are. Now let me go back to the older kids. We know Elizabeth Carpenter, the mother of David, who says my he said my father His grandfather raised him.

Nancy Kirschner 17:58

His father died before he knew him.

Kathleen Brandt 18:01

Yes, the Elizabeth Carpenter who married the Odie, the odor, william, oder, if you say. Well, she was about 17 when she got married. She would have been born around 1826.

Kathleen Brandt 18:17

She would have been the right age and so again, I was able to prove David's story Because he has a mother, the right age, he has a father who married this woman and this is his grandparent. Now the question is, who are all these other people? Next thing you're going to find? You can't hear me. I couldn't hear that last comment I said well, the next thing you're going to look for is who are all these other people? We can figure out who David is. He tells us we find it, but who is Eli?

Kathleen Brandt 18:48

If you're researching this entire area, as they leave Montgomery County Ohio, the family goes to Montgomery County, indiana. In that area, when you look at carpenters and households and you look for the right age group for Eli and Rachel and Joseph, you will see a lot of children and households without the last name. Carpenter, for example, there is an Eli and a Rebecca carpenter with the levisis. You are blood related to the levisis. I don't know who they are. Ok, so there's these other families that you have to flesh out to find your one answer. You have about seven families to flesh out to find your answers.

John Brandt 19:36

I wonder if this was confusing.

Kathleen Brandt 19:38

It is quite confusing.

John Brandt 19:40

There's also not a brick wall. It's a whole bunch of bricks, isn't it?

Kathleen Brandt 19:43

It's a whole bunch of bricks that she gets to remove one at a time.

John Brandt 19:47

It's a big pile of rubble, isn't it?

Kathleen Brandt 19:50

So Nancy has lots of work to do here. John, I'm sure I didn't tell you everything that I saw and did again, I'm just going to put you in the right direction. I would say the first job for you, missy, is to fix your tree. First of all, hide that tree.

John Brandt 20:12

You're talking about an ancestor. Yes, any.

Kathleen Brandt 20:16

all of her trees online are the same way. You have both George Carpenter's married and matched and loving each other and we need to separate them. The problem is, every tree is like that online, so I need you to come up with the right tree. Hide that tree. Open up another tree and only put on there what is proven, what you know and the facts. The other tree might help lead you later, but just hide that. Make it private. Let's not be a part of this whole sharing bad information.

Nancy Kirschner 20:55

Yeah, because I've looked at many trees and none of them gave me any help.

Kathleen Brandt 20:59

No, they're not going to. You need to start from scratch. You're going to put in everything you know up to 1860, and then you're going to add the marriage records that I'm going to hand you. You're going to take Elijah Colfitt's information Remember, it's also secondary. He is talking about great grandparents. So there's. I do have one last question for Nancy before she can send me. Ask me all hers. Okay, have you ever heard of a pal Carpenter? No, he supposedly is the father of that Eli and Rebecca who were living with the Levises. Oh, I will send you all the notes I have.

Kathleen Brandt 21:38

Okay, and I'll send you the new marriage record that you didn't have the William Oder one for 1843. And I think you had the other one and I'll send you the information on the provost Marshall records, which is very important for you, as well as the Virginia land trace for the land in Ohio. How to do that? You have a big learning curve, but it's always a fun part to me because I mean, who doesn't want to learn? Oh, absolutely. So tell me what your questions are and let me see if there's anything else that I have on you that I didn't give you.

Finding Ancestors and Researching Family History

Nancy Kirschner 22:18

Well, let's see there are so many questions with this family. I know one thing is when I found the David Odie in Joseph's estate settlement. That's how I found him. I'm having trouble with the courthouse getting those records, but I'm thinking I need to go down and look at wills in the probate settlement and it should be there.

Kathleen Brandt 22:46

You should have the same information, if it's not on family search, because the microfilm did have quite a bit. You do have to go to a family search center, however. You can't access it from your home, but you might be able to do that right in Iowa. Go to a family family history library is what it's called a family history library in Iowa. I did see quite a bit there, so you might not have to travel. However, let me go back and talk about what you just mentioned.

Nancy Kirschner 23:16

Well, Lucas Kelly is only about an hour away. Oh OK, I can go visit cemeteries because I've got both sides buried in that area, oh OK.

Kathleen Brandt 23:25

So that information that you saw on Joseph Carpenter is interesting. Notice in there, however, he makes a distinction of who gets what. If they were all full siblings they would have split it, but they are not all full siblings, and what I mean in splitting it, john, we're talking about this is a probate statement that was in the newspapers, and he would say someone gets one third, somebody's heirs get one fourth. And so that tells us right there that Eli, rachel, David and Joseph didn't have equal inheritance. They did not have. They were not at the same level of relationship. So Joseph was supposed to have been a brother of everyone, but he is a brother of someone and everyone else he was raised with, but not necessarily a brother of.

Kathleen Brandt 24:19

You might also find that that land has something to do with George. Like, where did he get it from? Because the last time I saw Joseph he was in Missouri, yeah. So he somehow he's back and he has this land. It might be that that land was inherited. How did he acquire the land? That should always be your question. How did he acquire it?

Nancy Kirschner 24:37

They require in the newspapers and from Sheraton Joseph was committed to Clarenda.

Kathleen Brandt 24:44

That is a sin, and I also say those can mean a lot. Yeah, and I need to find out why Exactly, unless we really know why, we don't know what we don't know.

John Brandt 24:55

Yeah, sometimes those same as Silo's had a tuberculosis or TV area or an isolation area which one of my, one of my family was actually in there and in Clarenda also. Yeah, and in Clarenda.

Nancy Kirschner 25:09

Yeah, my grandmother on my mom's side had TB and she was.

John Brandt 25:14

Yeah, going into a home, I think it was. It was a drug addiction.

Kathleen Brandt 25:18

Well, that explains a lot about your family, john, I mean.

John Brandt 25:21

Oh, nice, nice, easy shot, just yeah, I didn't see that one, and normally I would have seen that one yeah, so Nancy John's family is from Iowa, right, no which? Is 70 from my dad's side is all from the Polk County Des Moines Valley Junction area. Ok.

Kathleen Brandt 25:41

And they came in from Germany through the Great Lakes, so went straight to that, to Iowa.

Nancy Kirschner 25:46

Ok, so interesting, very interesting. Well, and another question when did Eli die and where did he die from? I can't find a death record, but then 1887. That may be a question never answered.

Kathleen Brandt 26:00

That is correct. There's no death record unless he owned land and there's a probate or a will. We're not going to know that. The other thing I must caution you on is a lot of people want to go to newspaper archives and arch, you know, those newspaper online sites. Best archives, in your case, nancy, are going to be at the state libraries or the county repositories for newspapers, and the reason is because the newspaper archives and those like that, those kind of databases, they don't carry every newspaper Right. Matter of fact, like there's a group of newspapers on something called small town newspapers, there's these smaller ones that are on Google, google News. All of them aren't digitized. You would definitely want to go to that local area set of newspapers because you'll get a lot more. The problem with yours is your family moved a lot. I can tell you that the rubies were mostly. Is it Ruby or Roby?

Nancy Kirschner 27:07

Roby.

Kathleen Brandt 27:07

Well, I think it goes either way. I found it both the Elizabeth the Ruby Roby group. A lot of them are in Rush County, indiana. That's a good place to start for you, just to see if you find carpenters and find out where they came from. How was our migratory path? Because you're going to again not look for carpenters through carpenters, You're looking through carpenters, through all the people that they knew, because they moved along with those people. We know that William Oder and Elizabeth were married by a particular person. You want to look at that person, the minister. Where did he come from? Why did they know him? Those are the questions that you're asking yourself and you have to look them up too. So when I tell you you came to me for answers and my answer is go out and find another hundred people and flesh them out, that's my answer, because you have to unscrambler your tree first of all and unscrambler all the people that are exhaled to your family in order to get to your answer.

Nancy Kirschner 28:15

I didn't know if Nancy had any other questions and then, just you know, now that you've enlightened me on some things, who really are all these people, right? So, yeah, you're right, I've got to figure out where to look and access these things you're talking about.

Kathleen Brandt 28:33

But you are not to do anything until you clean your tree up, and I'm going to bring a wet spaghetti noodle to beat you with.

John Brandt 28:41

When I see you in October.

Kathleen Brandt 28:43

I will bring that to beat you if that tree is not clean. Ok.

John Brandt 28:46

Oh boy.

Nancy Kirschner 28:47

OK, it'll be clean. That's my goal right now Do do I've?

John Brandt 28:53

I've been subject to the wet spaghetti noodle, not no, it's not pleasant at all. Not pleasant at all.

Nancy Kirschner 29:00

Well, when I was over in Davenport a week ago researching the downwards in Van Buren County, iowa, I came across Ruby and Ruby there, yes, and I thought, oh, I wonder if these are related to them.

Kathleen Brandt 29:16

They're very prolific family and and I have a feeling that Elizabeth Ruby, who married your carpenter, that is going to be one of the biggest keys. That's who I would. I would start honing in on OK. All right, John, I think I answered.

John Brandt 29:30

Yeah, I think that that. I think list of stuff to do and it's.

Nancy Kirschner 29:36

It's maybe not a brick wall, but it's a complicated wall.

John Brandt 29:39

It's a complicated wall.

Kathleen Brandt 29:40

Yeah, you know, it might be a brick wall, but your brick wall, every brick that you remove, will make it crumble. John, I'm kind of worried that people are going to say we're not going to call into Kathleen and hit in the bricks because she would just make us do more work.

Nancy Kirschner 29:55

Yeah Well you know, it's there are a lot of massacres out there, I wouldn't worry about that.

John Brandt 30:01

There's a lot of people who are into being abused, and when they can't get their family to fill the bill, then it's great to have somebody you can call, and that would be Kathleen and I think it's.

Nancy Kirschner 30:15

It's fascinating to find these little facts. You know, when I first come across David Odie, it's like who the heck is this person, right? And then then find out who he is. So and it's like, ok, got to find his family and right, he was a very sick man. As I've read through things, I saw that yeah.

Kathleen Brandt 30:39

Very sick man and from the Civil War John is referring to. Oh, OK, yes, and she came to me, knowing that Eli was the son of George, and I'm saying, maybe not, sorry, ok, yeah, maybe not, we don't know, but maybe that's the point, right, Right, that's the point of it all is that the information is you know.

John Brandt 31:00

if it's not accurate, then who cares?

Kathleen Brandt 31:03

Right. So, Johnny, anything else for me?

John Brandt 31:05

No, I think we're. We're in good shape. This would be a pretty easy edit for me, so I'm happy I'm about to bail out and get a cup of coffee.

Kathleen Brandt 31:13

No, you owe me lunch, dude oh.

John Brandt 31:15

OK, I'm about to bail out and owe you lunch.

Nancy Kirschner 31:18

Well, thank you very much, both of you. It's a pleasure meeting you. Thank you.

John Brandt 31:23

Tell thanks to Dennis for his technical support.

Nancy Kirschner 31:26

Yes, yes, and maybe when we're down there, I think we've got a trip that we planned the last week of August to come down the library. Hello, are you OK?

John Brandt 31:35

Yeah, oh, we'll have to have lunch.

Nancy Kirschner 31:37

Yes, that would be wonderful, yeah, that would be wonderful Because Chris and Dennis will be there and who knows who else I know there's some others coming too.

Podcast Credits and Shoutouts

John Brandt 31:45

Well then, then we'll definitely, we'll definitely plan on that at the end of August. That'll be something fun to do, and we'll we'll catch up and see how your research is going.

Kathleen Brandt 31:54

Nancy, he always bails out. Don't buy it.

John Brandt 31:58

Well, congratulations, you've made it to the end of another episode. Thanks so much for staying. Thanks to Nancy for sharing her questions with us. Thanks to Chewy Chewbacca brand, our part time kitchen island and full time solution to ever having clean carpets. For his unwavering lack of interest in anything we're doing. The theme song for Hitting the Bricks was written and performed by Tony Fist and Michael and the Leeches Watch for the next appearance on the Bridge to Terabithia. You can find us on Apple, spotify and, of course, buzzsprout. We'd love to hear what you think about the podcast, so stop by our Facebook page at Hitting the Bricks and let us know.