How you can overcome stress and anxiety, simplified - with Donna Morgan

This week, I am joined by counsellor Donna Morgan, who specialises in helping women and adolescents to overcome their stress. 

Join us as we discuss support systems, how we can help ourselves and others around us, and much more. 

Get in touch with Donna here: instagram.com/theanxietycounsellor

Rita is a health and fitness coach who specialises in helping women over 40 to be healthy and wealthy, through weight loss and/or business coaching. Find out more here 👉 https://thehealthandfitnesscoach.com

New episodes of The Healthy and Wealthy podcast are released every Tuesday 🧡

Watch the full episodes on YouTube

Transcript

Hi, and welcome to today's episode of the health collective Podcast. Today we are speaking with Donna Morgan, an experienced counsellor with over 25 years in field. She specialises in helping clients overcome anxiety, stress and panic attacks. And her speciality is actually working in not just women, but also in adolescent mental health. So in today's episode, we talk about where stress comes from the different methods of understanding the feelings that we have and how we can cope with them. And how really to transform our modalities of distraction. So rather than turning to alcohol, what else can we do with that feeling? Rather than turning to food? What else can we do with that feeling. So if you're struggling, or indeed an adolescent in your life is struggling with anxiety, stress, or any mental health issues, then today's episode is for you. If you're looking for any help with weight loss, body transformation, or menopausal symptoms, then please head to our website, the health and fitness coach.com for all the details about how we can help enjoy the episode.
So as I said, Welcome to Donna Morgan for being with us today. It's an absolute pleasure, thank you so much for giving up your time to join us on the show.
Thank you for having me, I'm looking forward to chatting.
Fabulous. So before we get into the multitude of depths, that is, you know, women's and adolescence mental health, why don't you give us a little bit of a background about how you came to work in this field, what your journey was, that led you to wanting to work with both adolescents and women in terms of their emotional, or anxieties or sort of mental well being.
So I started working predominantly with adults, and then it seemed like a lot of problems had started in adolescents and never been addressed they'd never had someone to talk to. So I started working with adolescents to kind of future proof them so that I wasn't seeing the 5060 year old people who had been carrying a burden of something that had happened so much younger in their life, and it had been affecting decisions in relationships and, and having impacts on their life for such a long time. So it's very rewarding working with adolescents, because the problem is in the moment, generally. So they work with it, and they work through it. And they sometimes get over it quite quickly, because it's all happening and it's very present. Whereas with the adults, sometimes it's in the present, but sometimes it's it's been a collective accumulative bunch of issues that have come along and triggered stuff from adolescence, so, or it's, it's just life events that have become overwhelming. And if you have too many of those that you haven't unpacked, then it will just becomes a perfect storm. So I love working with both sides of adolescents and adults, because particularly when it comes to the menopause journey, you've got, like we were saying off camera, you've got the perfect storm of the adolescents going through their hormonal changes, usually at the time where the ladies are starting to go through their hormonal changes, and you throw it all in the pot, and it just makes for a very, very interesting home life. So that's basically how I started working with with both sides.
Right. So when it comes to the adolescence, if we start there, the word you used was future proofing. Which sounds fantastic. That sounds like an all encompassing fix all I'm sure it isn't. But what are the different elements that you work on with adolescents to essentially as you put it, future proof them so it's sort of their adult years.
So basically, get them in touch with what in and don't feel feelings. So many adolescents fear feelings, they, you know, we've broken down society in a different way. We don't live in a small village so much with all our elders and all our grandparents, you know, families are scattered everywhere. So you don't have people looking out for you as an adolescent quite so much as you used to. So it's, it's, it's addressing, who are you talking to? Who are your people? Who's your support system? How are you getting on with your parents? Are you talking to your parents? Are you actually sharing what's going on and how you're feeling? Are you telling them why you stopped off in you're in such a mood that actually, you know, you'd had a problem at school and you hadn't done well on assignment or you've forgotten something and gotten in trouble for it? Well, you've fallen out with a friend and actually, you'll be friends again tomorrow. You know, it's it's, it's learning how to discuss those things that a lot of people walk around, carrying all these troubles inside their head and not not sharing it with people. So the first thing I say is, you know, how do we feel about feelings, who do we talk to about our feelings and, and people usually recall when you say the word feelings, it's like, okay, you're gonna catch them at some point. And it's better to make them your friend and welcome them in then to kind of fear them and, and distance yourself from them. So that's, that's the first kind of conversation I have, and mealtimes and talking to your family and just opening up to friends and asking them if they're actually okay without it being like, Oh, I can't do that. But the more you do it, the easier it gets. And that's the bit that's helping to future preview for adulthood. It's it's finding your people that you can rely on and knowing that, you know, when I need someone to make me laugh and distract me, I go to that friend, when I need a kick up the bum, I go to that friend, when I need just a sympathy and a hug. It might be my mom I go to or it might be somebody else's mom, I go to somebody else's mom might be more supportive. So it's finding your circle of people that are going to help get you through life basically.
Thanks. So we obviously mentioned women when it comes to sort of the the adult demographic that you work with. So I'm curious as adolescents, when it comes to relationships with their own feelings and how they approach that do you see a difference in the genders at all between young boys and young girls or, you know, teenagers? Do you see shifts or changes in how each gender is able to relate to that word feelings?
I think we all have, they just don't necessarily label them as feelings. They don't label them as I was hurt or I was anxious or I was upset, you know, upset or worried. I think boys stereotypically kind of bury them down a bit. And they come out in anger or frustration. Girls genuinely are slightly better at talking about it with their girlfriends, because girls natter and chat and share things a little bit more. Whereas boys are a bit more reserved. So, but that doesn't mean that they haven't got them. You know, I see plenty of adolescent young men who are coming because their parents have said, Go in touch donor. And now you know, the first thing I say is if you come with your own free will, or as somebody who's strong armed you through the door and thought you should come and see me. And they go your parents are just so annoying. And I'm like, okay, great. So we're gonna start with the fact your parents are really annoying, why they're annoying, why do we not like them right now? What is the thing that they're doing? And you kind of get them on the side by saying, Well, what do you what reason do you think they think you should come to counselling for and have they got a point? So that's kind of my angle of getting in? And saying, How do you feel? So girls? Yeah, generally are a little bit better about talking about their feelings. Boys still have them. They just are not so used to it. And I think there's still a thing that that that a lot of parents have that oh, they're boys. So they're coping, they go play football, they go to the gym, they work it out there. But actually, you're thinking about the man that's going to grow up to be somebody's partner in life? How do you want them to be talking to their partner? How do you potentially want them to be talking to their kids? Do you want them to be in touch with that sensitive side of them because they have it? So why not nurture it and bring it out and develop it and get them to explore it in a safe way while they're in adolescent? Before the world gets quite big and scary as an adult?
Absolutely, I think, you know, we've moved on hugely in our stereotypes of what the genders represent and how they handle different areas of life. But equally, it's still part of us sort of ingrained societal beliefs that boys just get on with it boys will be boys, I think is the phrase that has been perpetuated through the generations. So when it comes to the education system, and obviously we're speaking about the UK here, specifically, but when it comes to the education system, what changes would you like to see in the institutions of how we teach our children in order to be able to handle the feelings in a more open and communicative way? Because unfortunately, we can't have an entire country full of donor organs. So what would you like to see change in the fundamentals of how we're teaching children to discuss their feelings?
I think simply parenting like it starts at home, I think as well as the school. I think parents, a lot of parents could probably do with a pet. You know, kids don't come with a rulebook. You know, you have a newborn baby and they send you home, and you feel like you're failing from day one as a parent because you've never changed a nappy. You've never breastfed a child or bottle fed a child or know what's winning and what's not. When you know, there's so many things to learn as a parent, and you're learning On the Job constantly, so you constantly feel like you're getting a lot of it wrong. So I think in terms of parenting, there should be parenting courses that are, that are making it more freely available for, for parents to talk about how they, how they feel about being a parent, how they were parented, because how you were parented is going to have a, an effect on how you parent now, some parents come into this world, and I'm not going to parent like my parents did, I'm going to do it differently. So again, they're learning on the job, some don't even have that conscious kind of thought they just do things, because that's the way they were brought up. So think it starts with, you know, there's a, there's a space for some really nice nurturing environments to learn and talk about how you express your feelings and how you share them and how you're going to bring your children almost you kind of write a plan of how would you like your child to be when it's five? How would you like it to be when it's 13? Do you want it to be somebody that can talk about its feelings and express itself and have good loving relationships, okay, so if you're going to do that, and you want that, you need to reverse engineer it back to So what things do you need to put in place at the beginning to teach your child this and if you haven't got the skill set, you're gonna get that skill set, you're gonna learn it. So it's, it's a really, that's a really big subject. But it is something that I think there's a lot of room for little things to be put in place to make life really a lot of a lot easier.
So if we fast forward a few decades, to the adult end of the spectrum, when it comes to the anxieties, emotional challenges that you see in the women that you talk to, do you see a lot of overlap. Are there a lot of patterns in what comes through from these women? Or is each case a completely unique and individual one? Or is it a mixture of both?
I think it's a mixture of both, I'd say you're always going to have certain little light bulb barriers, there's that thing. Yep. That that that's, that's the same. That's the same. That's the same, but everybody's story is different, and everybody's unique. But I think if you've grown up and you've not learned self care how to take care of yourself, how to I think one of the biggest thing that i i rightly or wrongly find slightly amusing is when when people you know, like, how are your stress levels? Oh, yeah. And I'm finding that I get stressed, I don't get stressed. And then they list this big long list of things and you're like, son, sounds like stress. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck. I think it might be a duck. I think that stress and they're like, really put myself down as a stressful person. Keep up what you're saying. Sounds really stressful. So how are you coping with that? Oh, well, I'm meeting a packet of biscuits, I'm drinking a couple of glasses of wine. I I don't go out anymore. I don't drive late at night. I don't have stopped going to the gym. I'm too tired. I'm, you know, so all these things, people. So answering your question, I think, again, the adults could do as some future proofing in their 30s and 40s. About how do you manage stress? How do you want your menopause to be because it's not even a thing I thought about in my 30s I just thought it was like way, way off in the distance. And I think what the menopause does is I've described it many times is it just throws open the barn doors and anything that you've just chucked at the back for a really long time that I'll I'll deal with that one day, I'll just leave that in the back hole, just tuck it in the back. It all just comes out in a very uncontrolled kind of way. Which is why I think the menopause is quite overwhelming for a lot of people and whether they identify it as perimenopause or menopause. Some do some don't. But I think it all comes out during the menopause. There's nowhere for it to hide anymore because the barn doors are open. And it's a free flow. So if you can work on yourself and get good kind of stress management, self care, good eating, good, sleeping, good, good. Just taking care of yourself without it feeling selfish. But going back to where we started, perimenopause are women are usually right in the eye of the storm in terms of they've got if they've got children, they're usually adolescent. They're usually doing really well in their job. They're balancing home life, teenagers doing exams, they've got a job, they've got a house, they've got a dog. They've got a lot of things going on. So their own personal well being and self care is usually very low down the list. So it's something that in your 30s you really need to be prioritising, okay, if I'm going to have a family where I've got a family I still need to carve out X, Y and Zed for me is that old analogy of you've got to put your own oxygen mask on first and you do you can't be giving and doing everything for everybody else, whether it be family job, if you've got to get back to yourself first or Why shouldn't occur to anybody?
Absolutely. And you know that word fine. Whenever I hear fine, who said it to me, but the acronym they came up with was fundamentally incapable of normal emotion. So we just say fine, which I think is actually quite accurate because we use that word when we don't know what else to say.
With that, which won't say the first word, but insecure, neurotic and emotional.
So we can gather what this F might be. Absolutely, I think neurotic and emotional sum that up. So one of the things that you just said there was about, you know, use the example of someone not being aware that they're stressed. And using coping mechanisms, such as usually booze comes into play with food, obviously, that's where a lot of our clients are, when we come to work with them is that their bodies have taken a lot of strain and toll over the last few years. Do you feel that there is an element that women now are expected to handle so much that a lot of women have chronic underlying issues that they have now become normalised to, so they're chronically stressed, but for them, that's normal? So they don't see. They don't know any different or they're chronically somehow in pain? You know, a lot of women I work with a chronically, they're chronically tired. They say, Well, isn't everybody who's over 40 waking up every day exhausted and their eyelids drooping at 3pm? No, but it's almost that it's become a normalised situation. So is that a pattern that you're seeing with the women that you work with?
Yeah, absolutely. I think they push and push and push and push. And generally, most people don't come to therapy until they're in crisis. And it and I think of therapy as a treat, I think it's something you should treat yourself to on a good day, because it's a chance to, you know, look at patterns and unpack things that is happening, whether it be stress at work stress at home, before you reach that point where you are in crisis, and like you say, you've you've hit that point, because unpacking the you know, the thing about being tiredness, I think, with all the wonderful educational information that's out there at the moment about menopause, you know, when we get I didn't realise that everyone was tired, and that that's kind of maybe a menopause? I just thought, no, so yeah, they think everybody is normal to feel like that. But it's like, well, actually, it's not these things are tweakable and fixable, and you don't have to live with them. So the more you can talk about it, and learn from other women, that's where women supporting women is such a wonderful thing. Because we've got access to information all over the world now, which is amazing and fantastic.
When it comes to these emotional stresses that you're talking about, there seem to be very few words that we use to describe them. What I mean by that is, stress is the first one. And I think it's because from my understanding, and the way that I've discussed this with women is that it's politically correct to say so it's okay to be stressed. Nowadays, oh, you know, this dress are busy, you know, it's all good. It's kind of like the replacement of fine. But stress ultimately means to be afraid. I'm afraid I won't get everything done. I'm afraid that I'm not good enough. I'm afraid that my husband's going to beat me, I'm afraid that my kids are going to fail at school. Stress is essentially fear. But it's not very politically correct. When someone says, How are you to say, Oh, well, I'm chronically afraid. That's not something that we would usually share. So when it comes to the language of emotion, do you see that it's quite stunted in the society? Because I think from an EQ emotional intelligence, there are I think it's over 40,000 different types of emotion. So obviously, you've got your fundamentals, and then different levels that branch out from that. But in this country, according to studies, we have about 20 words, and that's it for 40,000 emotions. So do you find that our ability to articulate and communicate how we're feeling is struggling and is that something that you help women work with to find the words and the expression? Yeah,
I think there's a I think there's still a stigma about owning how you feel. I mean, I I often tell my clients a joke about one of my best friends, we we I've got a bunch of Friends, we've been friends since we were kids, and it's great. We go out to dinner sort of, you know, once a month. And one time we were sort of checking in and I said something you should know what And the trouble is when people say, How are you? You tell them? No, I was laughing. And I was like, Yeah, I've had a bad week. And she's like, you just need to go, oh, yeah, no, I'm good. No. It's in the job description. I can't just say that I call it I have to be authentic. If you if you ask me how I am, I'm going to tell you. So we're going to this big sort of conversation about how when people ask, Oh, how are you? And you go, Oh, well, actually, and they go, Oh, great. So when should we order some food? Or should we get lunch? You know, coffee? People don't really want to know the answer, because they're frightened of what you say if you if I said to, you know, hey, Rita, how are you and you went, bless, you've done a really bad night, I didn't get any sleep or, and the cat was sick, and I'd take him to the vet, and I'm really anxious, and I'm overwhelmed. I've got pressures at home, I've got pressures at work, and it's sort of like this. A lot of people don't quite know how to cope with your response. So somebody on the receiving end of that might kind of go, wow, okay, that's quite big. Well, anyway, so what have you got planned for the rest of the day? And they just push it down? And they push it under the carpet? Which then what message does that send you that message sends? I've been and I've ever shared a bit, maybe I should just pull back a bit and just go, I'm a bit stressed. And that's where the bit stress comes from. Because stress, everyone can identify with stress. But when you say, Well, I'm really hurt, or I'm grieving, or I'm sad, I'm lonely. I'm worried about my kids. You know, I'm having panic attacks. I'm not sleeping, I'm stressed about a meeting at work. Do people have time? Do they actually really want to know the answer? And then also the question.
So we're taught essentially, to repress our own feelings because of other people's perceptions of what we say? And do you see that in the other direction, because a lot of what I like to discuss with the women that I work with is celebrating what's going well, owning, not just the failures or perceived failures, but owning the wins and the successes. But a lot of women struggle to express their successes in the same way as their, you know, struggles because of how they fear someone might perceive it. So you know, if I came along and said, hey, you know, Donna, how are you doing? And you said, amazing, I've had this wonderful week, you know, my relationships, fantastic. My kids have done X, Y, and Zed, I went on this phenomenal holiday, I bought a new car. All of these are wonderful things about you. But by the way, for those listening, I make you about up, I haven't done I have not bought a new car as far as I'm aware. But there is this fear of coming across as I suppose arrogant or showy. Or, in some way, I suppose. It's about not what the person is saying, but how we fear the other person in that relationship to perceive it. So do you see that with your women as well, that they struggle on both ends, mainly for fear of judgement from the other person in the conversation?
Yeah, I think we are still quite horrible, not celebrating some people's successes, you know, I've got another friend and she's got something really quite joyful in her life. And she's a con number at telling people because, you know, judging people can be and I'm like, it's great. I'm really excited. You know, I'm excited. If my friends do well, or something wonderful happens. I'm excited for them, I get joy from hearing their news. But I think the other side of that is for, you know, for some clients that I'm seeing at the moment, you know, being able to walk the dog for five minutes is a massive achievement, getting out of bed for some as a massive achievement, you know, having a slightly less pain free day, or, you know, the anxiety was a bit less, so I was able to go to the shop. That's something to be celebrated as much as a new car. But that's two different people. And wouldn't it be wonderful if we could share both of those things at the same time, and somebody golden go chiming column is amazing. And I'm so happy for you equally that you got out today. It's a beautiful day, the sun shining, you walk the dog for five minutes, I know you wanted to do 10. But fives. Great, that's fantastic. So equally, they should both be celebrated in the same way. Absolutely. So
as we sort of come to the end, and I could honestly talk about this subject for hours. For women listening who themselves might be finding challenges in their own mental health or indeed, you might have some children or teenagers at home, who are struggling, maybe at school or shutting down locking themselves away. Maybe they're being bullied. Either way, what would you say is the best tip to become aware because a lot of the time like you said We try to ignore feelings. And often that ends up in a glass of Prosecco at the end of the night, or a cigarette break, or a takeaway. And so we're just finding ways to repress a feeling. So often we're not even aware that the theory exists, or the problem or the struggle exists, because we're shoving. So if someone's sort of sitting there going, do I need help? Or does my son need help? Is there a problem? What are the first steps that they could take to become aware of what's happening, even before they then take action on it?
I think to own it to to demonstrate how you're feeling. I mean, I think the family dinner is not quite what it used to be, you know, in years gone by, but I love a family dinner in terms of you can just check in with each other. How is your day, you know, I start the sentence with I had a great day, I felt a bit stressed at this, this was a bit overwhelming. But this was great. You know, you're checking in, you're owning your feelings. When you demonstrate how you feel, it makes people feel safer to say how they're feeling. So So checking in, you know, how was your day asking your kids how their day was demonstrating by I've always got a friend if I get stuck. And I feel like if I come at a question head on with somebody, even with a friend, if I think or if I come at this direct and say, How you doing, looking a bit tired, or going a bit stressed, you always say Oh, I bumped into a friend the other day, she was really struggling with X, Y and Zed. It's a conversation opener to that other person to go. Yeah, I see now that you say that I've been feeling a bit like that. Or, you know, with your children, you can say I bumped into someone at the supermarket the other day, and she was saying how her kids were just, you know, so stressed about doing their exams and couldn't knuckle down to do revision. Were feeling overwhelmed. And, and I was wondering, you know, how are you doing? How are you feeling? How is that for you at the moment? So you're giving an example of what you're kind of fishing for, and that it's safe to discuss that and it opens it up? So I've always got a friend that's got something going on that necessarily hasn't?
Absolutely. I love that the the iniquitous friend, mine is usually a cousin, but I totally haven't been to make sure I don't keep changing her name.
Radio, they were talking about such and such on telling him that made me think of you actually. So it's just a lead in? Absolutely,
absolutely. So it's been absolutely wonderful talking to you, I'm really interested in exploring the different aspects of mental health and the different age perspectives and actually seeing a huge amount of similarities between them. And so as always, for those listening, if you want to get in touch with our guests on it today, then all of her details will be in the podcast episode description. So feel free to go ahead, ask some questions, get in touch, whether it's for yourself or for an adolescent in your life. But that just leaves me to say thank you so much to Donna for joining us today.
Thank you very much for having me too. It's been great.
Fabulous. And also thank you to everyone for listening. I hope it's been of use and I look forward to seeing you all on the next episode. Have a great day.