Interbeing
Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond.
In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, every relationship, every pause matters.
Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public. Not as answers, but as invitations to think differently about leadership, community, and the future of education.
You can find out more about Futures-Focused Leadership Coaching for International Schools and MSB at www.makingstuffbetter.com
Interbeing
S2Ep6: Data-Driven Wellbeing In Schools: How To Nurture DEIJ with Matthew Savage (part 1)
Welcome to the Principled podcast.
In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Matthew Savage, speaker, trainer, coach, and founder of The Mona Lisa Effect®, through which Matthew explores the intersection between wellbeing and DEIJ in schools all around the world.
In part 1 of a fascinating and value-packed conversation, they discuss why data is a question and never an answer, why good intentions aren’t always enough, and the complexity of organisational health and wellness.
Does community wellbeing depend up in the wellbeing of the most marginalised? What role does discomfort play in creating truly diverse and inclusive environments? And how can we address the submerged complexities that lead to the often over-simplified emergent symptoms?
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To get in touch with Matthew, you can find him online here:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/savageeducation/?originalSubdomain=uk
The Mona Lisa Effect: https://monalisaeffect.me/
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To get in touch, please find us online here:
Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=en
Twitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en
Additional links to follow:
Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/
Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/
Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/
