How To Be WellnStrong

62: How to Eat Well, Maximize Muscle Growth, & Sustain Fat Loss | Dr. Joey Muñoz, PhD

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 62

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I’m very excited to welcome Dr. Joey Muñoz to the show today. Dr. Muñoz holds a PhD in Nutritional Sciences from Florida State University, and his research explores the connection between specific foods and the prevention of diseases like osteoporosis and diabetes. In this episode, we discuss some powerful ways to maximize muscle growth and sustain weight loss, the habits stopping you from losing fat and getting lean, the best hack to satisfy hunger throughout the day,  and how to be sure you’re hitting your protein targets. And perhaps most importantly, we talk about the importance of developing realistic and sustainable habits that will move you towards your goals. Dr. Joey is a wealth of knowledge, so get yourself ready for this conversation by grabbing a notepad!


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*Unedited Transcript* 

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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] I'm super excited to connect with you.

I first heard about you, I think it was the Genius Life podcast. And I was like, this guy's awesome. And then I went to your Instagram account and I probably spent a solid hour just going through all your content. I was like, he is such a wealth of information. I have to have him on my show. So thank you for your time.

And I'm just really excited to chat with

you today. Yeah. Of course. Thank you for having me. 

Yeah, absolutely. Let's just dive into one of the most probably searched queries on Google. And that is, what is the most important thing we should be looking at when it comes to fat loss?

Joey Munoz: Um,

Jacqueline: a loaded question. 

Joey Munoz: And yes, we can address this in. A couple of different ways. So when you say what's the most important thing, um, I guess it comes down to how we interpret that question. Because we, if we interpret that question as like, what do you actually need to do to lose fat? It's pretty simple and it's simple, but there's a lot of nuance and it comes down to being in a calorie deficit.

Eating [00:01:00] less calories and your body burns now The thing is there's a lot of confusion about what a calorie deficit is because you'll hear people say I don't need a lot of calories I'm in a calorie deficit and I'm not losing weight by definition if you're not losing weight You're not in a calorie deficit.

You may not be eating a lot of calories, but you're not in a calorie deficit, right? So that's how I would answer the question of what is the most important thing to achieve fat loss Now we can talk about how to do that in a way that's healthy and sustainable, which I would say is equally as important.

So this is what I talk to my clients about pretty much every single day. And it's the main mistake I see people make whenever they try to lose fat, improve health, improve body composition, whatever it may be. Unfortunately. When people say they want to lose weight or lose fat in some aspects, it's to look better, which is fairly subjective.

And in some aspects, it's to improve their [00:02:00] health. They want to be healthier. Yet the things they do to achieve that goal are not healthy at all, right? It's like such a funny contradiction because like, Oh, I want to lose weight. Why? Because I want to look a little bit better. I want to be a little bit healthier.

Okay. What are you going to do? I'm going to do, I'm going to go on a super restrictive diet. I'm going to be working out twice a day. I'm going to do this, that. And like, none of this stuff is inherently. Really healthy, right? And not only is it really healthy, it's not really sustainable either. And when we talk about sustainability, when it comes to health and fitness, it's incredibly important because the stuff that you do to achieve your goals ideally is the same stuff that you do to maintain your goals long term.

Right? This is, I, I've shared this story a couple of times, but oftentimes people try to do something to achieve weight loss and they give no thought to what they're going to do after they achieve the weight loss. Right? And it's 

Jacqueline: So true. 

Joey Munoz: people don't struggle to lose weight. Most people actually lose weight.

They just regain it. Most people struggle to maintain weight off. Because again,

Jacqueline: Like the

biggest loser, 

Joey Munoz: yeah. That's a perfect [00:03:00] example. And it's just because the stuff that they did, that they did to achieve the weight loss, they can't really maintain it long term. And that comes down to a number of different reasons.

Sometimes it's like lack of education. Sometimes it's doing too much. Sometimes it's doing stuff that they don't enjoy. But at the end of the day, it comes down to if you want to lose weight, improve your shape, Get healthier and the stuff you do to get there should be stuff that you can do for the rest of your life, right?

And that stuff should focus on prioritizing health, right? This should be healthy behaviors. You should learn how to improve the quality of your diet rather than going on a diet. Restricted fat loss diet because yes, the restricted fat loss diet will help you lose fat acutely, but it's not going to do anything for you long term.

You should learn how to build muscle because it's important for metabolic health. It's important for body composition. It's important to be able to stay leaner while eating more food. If you have more muscle, right, you should learn the [00:04:00] basic fundamentals of nutrition to exercise and start implementing things in a healthy and sustainable way.

Um, that's my, my general spiel, and then we can go into specific topics if you want.

Jacqueline: I love all of that. Yeah. So many questions in my mind right now. Firstly, I had JJ virgin on the show. I want to say two or three weeks ago. And I loved that conversation because she, as I'm sure, you know, is a huge proponent of strength training and resistance training. And she spoke a lot about, you The importance of looking at body composition rather than weight.

Can you explain to listeners why that is so important and what the real difference is there?

Joey Munoz: Yeah, that's a good, uh, thing to go into for sure. So, most people say they want to lose weight. And the truth is that most people want to lose body fat. But they think that that's synonymous with the word weight loss, right? And there's some truth to it, but it's not completely true. Because if you, if you focus on just losing weight, You can do a ton of really restricted things that help you lose weight quickly.

Some of the things that I was just [00:05:00] mentioning before. But your body is not going to look any better and perhaps not even be much healthier either. Right? Because if you starve yourself and do hours of cardio every day, yeah, you'll lose a ton of weight. But weight is not just fat, right? We can lose fat mass.

We can also lose lean mass, which is mainly muscle mass. And unfortunately, when you do things in a really restricted fashion, you're Um, you lose a substantial amount of lean mass as well, right? So, for example, to just put into perspective, like when people talk about losing weight, they just think about their nutrition and their exercise.

But other things like stress management, sleep, um, alcohol intake, all these things will influence where that weight is coming off of. There's really good research showing that people who are sleep restricted, if they lose weight, they lose a substantial more, a substantially larger amount of muscle mass compared to fat mass.

It's like, Hey, if we just prioritize your sleep a little bit more, you'll have better [00:06:00] results. And this is what I was referring to earlier about, uh, Creating healthy habits and creating a healthy lifestyle. It's like, yes, a healthy diet. Yes. Exercise, but also sleep. Also stress management. Like these things need to be taken into account as well.

Now, what I tell people is like, Hey, don't focus on weight loss. Let's focus on improving body composition and body composition is bringing in muscle mass and fat mass into the equation. Right. We're realistically trying to do when we're trying to get in shape is lose fat mass and ideally maintain or increase muscle mass.

And now I'm sure there are people listening. They're like, I don't want to put on muscle. I don't want to look bulky. Trust me, that just doesn't happen. Um, that's, I think, a big concern still for women. Right. It's like. We just don't have the hormonal profile to get super jacked and the women that are super jacked are on drugs A lot of them are just not honest about it.

It's true. It's true, right? Like

because women will see female bodybuilders and like I don't want to look like that It's like it's impossible for you to look like [00:07:00] that Every woman every woman who competes in bodybuilding at a professional level is on steroids. A lot of them just aren't honest about it Um, so what we really want to do to Look fitter or be in better shape is improved body composition, which again is losing body fat and building muscle mass.

And the things that you need to do to actually lose fat and build muscle are like essentially anti, uh, quick fixes, right? Because the stuff like the quick fixes are not going to improve your body composition. So to improve body composition, you need to be resistance training. I'm a huge proponent of resistance training as well.

I think most people who maybe only have a couple of hours per week to exercise should focus a hundred percent of their time on resistance training. Because cardio is fantastic, but the thing is, you can get a really great cardiovascular benefit from lifting weights as well. If you lift weights, your heart is racing, you're breathing hard, it's still a cardiovascular workout, it's still good for your cardiovascular health, and you get the added benefits of getting stronger, building [00:08:00] muscle.

So you should definitely prioritize resistance training, um, to improve body composition on a nutritional standpoint. You shouldn't just be following a super restricted diet because that's not going to promote building muscle. It's not going to improve your body composition. We should be focusing on things like adequate protein intake.

When it comes to your caloric deficit, not being in a super large caloric deficit where you're losing weight really quickly, right? People want to lose weight as quickly as possible. Realistically, we should be losing weight at a slow to moderate rate and people are in a rush, but time passes anyways. And you, it's better if you do things sustainably because then you achieve your goal and you maintain it long term.

Focusing on things like eating fruits and veggies. Right, because they help with satiety regulation to help you reduce your overall food intake to help you manage hunger, focusing on things like fiber and micronutrients as well, focusing on things like more minimally processed foods, um, all of these things that we all know contribute to healthier diets, right?

And it's not saying I'm going keto or I'm intermittent fasting or. If you want to intermittent [00:09:00] fast whatever that's fine, but like people think those are like magic pills essentially right and the truth is that they're just tools, but what we should be doing is focusing on these simple variables that help you improve the quality of your nutrition, you should be focusing on resistance training to help you build muscle, you should make sure you have some sort of Sleep hygiene routine, right?

Lisa are sleeping seven to eight hours a night. You should make sure you're managing your stress. You should make sure you're minimizing alcohol intake. Like all of these basic little things that are going to help you not only lose weight, but lose fat mass while maintaining or increasing muscle mass. 

Jacqueline: Yeah, I love that. That is the definition of a holistic approach. And I'm sure that's why so many of your clients see success is because you implement again, all those different facets. 

Joey Munoz: What's difficult is to get people to embrace that.

Jacqueline: I can imagine. But again, I mean, When people start seeing results, right? I'm sure they're like, Hmm, like there's actually something to this formula, right?

Joey Munoz: yeah. What I, I guess it's, it's just not like a sexy message, right? It's not like. Lose 30 pounds in 30 days.

Jacqueline: And it's funny too, cause I feel like even on Google, sometimes just for kicks, I'll [00:10:00] like go on to like, what does that say? Where you can see like the most searched queries and pretty often in the weight loss realm, it's like how to lose 10 pounds in five days. Right. And it's like all these things that are really not sustainable.

And I think the irony too, I mean, again, going back to sustainability is when you focus so much on restriction, it actually increases the likelihood of like binging, for example, and I've struggled with that in the past. Like, I used to be a six mile a day runner in college, have to hit the treadmill, all cardio, no resistance training, and I would just be ravenous and consume like.

Way more calories than I should, uh, like five foot two. And I just remember like, not, not feeling really great. And I was just burnt out all the time. So it really wasn't until I started looking at again, more of that holistic approach where I did focus more on strength training. Um, I toned it down in a lot of other areas and focused less on restriction and more on nourishment that I actually saw the changes that I really wanted to see in my body.

Right. And I think through that, I really started [00:11:00] to embrace, uh, But on the topic of, of nutrition, Dr. Joey, and you touched on it, um, when you mentioned keto, but we know we've seen like this evolution of dietary trends over the past 20 years. And up until recently, the ketogenic diet has been all the rage and I think it has a time and a place.

I know it's really, um, it can be effective in people with like glioblastoma, for example, or other mental health disorders. but I don't necessarily think it's a super healthy choice in the long run when it comes to, you know, sustainability. So with that, what are your thoughts on using that diet, even if it's for like, a certain portion of time.

For example, if someone's trying to overcome insulin resistance, you know, we hear it might be helpful for women with PCOS, or other type of metabolic issues. So it's a loaded question, but 

Joey Munoz: Yeah. So, so, okay. I want to touch on something you mentioned a second before, and I promise you'll answer this question because you mentioned with your own experience of like being really restrictive, leading to more binge eating. [00:12:00] Um, I love what you said of like, not focused on restricting, but focusing on nourishing.

This is the exact thing. I. Word it a little bit differently. I tell my clients, like, don't focus on what not to eat. Focus on what you should be eating. Right. And there's so much good research showing that when people, essentially, that's what we call dichotomous thinking when it comes to nutrition, right?

Seeing foods as good or bad. I'm like trying to avoid the bad ones at all costs and people it's ironic, but people who think that way have way less success with achieving weight loss or improving health. Um, we see in the research clearly people who think more dichotomously Struggle substantially more with health and weight, and I think the reason why is pretty simple, right?

Like if you tell a kid that they can't have a cookie like what do they want? They want the cookie right you tell yourself you can't have something you can't do something you're gonna want to do that more

Jacqueline: Yeah. 

Joey Munoz: when you focus on the behaviors that you should be executing on Like I mentioned, protein intake, fruits and [00:13:00] veggies, having these daily habits that you focus on hitting certain targets every day.

Um, it makes it really easy to have a more positive outlook on nutrition. You focus more on what you should be eating. As a by product, you'll probably eat less of the other stuff anyways. But it's just, A shift in the way you approach nutrition, right, which I think can be incredibly helpful, and it's easier said than done, but I do encourage people to focus more on what they should be eating rather than what they shouldn't be eating, because the other aspect of like when you focus on what you shouldn't be eating.

It's like, okay, I shouldn't eat these things. Um, now you're not eating those things, but you've put no effort into thinking about what you should be eating. So now you're just eating less food and you're like hungry all the time, too. Like, that's not helpful,

Jacqueline: Yeah. Or, or it leads to guilt. Like, you know, if you're at a kid's birthday party and there's cake and you have a piece like for the next 24 hours, you're going to be like, this is going to set me back for the next month. Right. All because I want a piece of cake and like the stress and anxiety over that is worse than the [00:14:00] thing

Joey Munoz: Yeah. Now to talk about the keto diet. Um, you mentioned, do I think there's a time and place for it? So, I don't think there's a time and place for anything that somebody can't do long term, and I'll explain why. Um, so, to answer your question, I do think there's a time and place for it if somebody simply enjoys following, following a ketogenic diet.

I think that's fine. Right. So I think it's the most optimal diet for health. No, because we know that carbohydrate containing foods have a number of health benefits too. The research clearly shows that people who have more inclusive diets have better health outcomes. Right. So most diets with a name keto, paleo, whatever it is, are defined by the foods that they restrict.

Right. And by definition, that is a more exclusive diet. And I just said that the research shows that the opposite is beneficial. So being more inclusive, let's talk about inclusive. I'm not talking about like adding Doritos and soda, right. But like including more food groups in your diet. So instead of just doing high fat [00:15:00] foods and high protein foods, also including whole grains and fruits and veggies and beans, like all of these high carb containing foods that we know that have a number of health benefits.

So from a purely health standpoint, I would not say that a ketogenic diet is the most optimal, but also. Everybody's different, right? And, um, if a ketogenic diet helps somebody regulate their overall food intake, helps them manage their body weight, then I think it's probably a good choice for that person, if they've tried other approaches and just struggle with other approaches, right?

Because we do know, Unfortunately, I wish this wasn't the case, but we know that our body size, essentially how much fat we have is the number one determinant of adverse health outcomes, right? And people also have a hard time accepting this, this statement, but like if you have a really shitty diet, but you have a good body composition, which is very hard to do by the way, because the two kind of go hand in hand, but theoretically that person is healthier.

And somebody who has a really healthy diet on [00:16:00] paper, but it's very overweight because the excess fat itself has negative health impacts, right? It's not the food itself. It's what the food does to your body composition. And then the negative impacts in your body composition negatively impact your health.

And we can go into that later if you want to as well, because sometimes people are like, why would that be bad? 

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that's so interesting. And that's why I love your work so much is because you say it as it is, and you're all about balance. And I think, you know, I've been in this space for the past, like five years or so, like actually in it with my Instagram and, you know, browsing through content.

And it's so overwhelming with. The villainization of all these foods like lectins and then you have the carnivore camp and then the plant based camp and honestly it's worse than politics in the sense of like it creates so much animosity among people based on their diet. And again, I mean, to your point earlier, the most healthy people are the ones that are the most inclusive of all the food groups. That's not to say, you [00:17:00] know, if something works for one person, like by all means, do that. Everyone has a different response to things, but I think like being in these camps, right? It's just so, so unhealthy. So I'm just curious. Why do you think people have basically villainized her in food groups?

why are we seeing all of

Joey Munoz: There's a couple of reasons. And there's different like avatars who do this as well. Yeah. Right. There's the person who, um, did a diet and it worked for them. And so now they think that this diet is the holy grail of nutrition. Right. And I used to do these things too. The thing is like, cause you mentioned, I kind of say it as it is.

And it's because I've spent my life studying nutrition. Like I know the science of this stuff, like the back of my hand. So I can. Tell you why certain people are wrong and I can explain why it's wrong because I understand the physiology behind it but a lot of people like hey if you've been struggling with Let's talk about weight and then we'll talk about health related stuff too because there's different rationale there [00:18:00] Let's say somebody's been struggling with their weight and they do a keto diet and they lose a ton of weight They don't understand why they just know they did a keto and it worked I mean, no, they've tried a bunch of stuff before and it hasn't worked Well, to them, keto seems like magic, right?

And so then they make an Instagram profile and start talking about keto being like the holy grail of nutrition. That's, that's one type of

person. Yeah. Another type of person is, this is a very specific type of person, but somebody who maybe has a ton of GI issues, a ton of digestive complications. And they do something like a carnivore diet, for example, and they feel really good, right?

Nobody's denying they feel great. But the reason they feel good is not necessarily because the meat is helping them feel good. It's because they've cut out a lot of the foods that caused GI distress, right? And so then people ask, like, well, isn't, wouldn't you then say that a carnivore diet is good for that person?

Like, yeah, perhaps, but the thing is, even [00:19:00] that person doesn't have to be that restricted because here's the thing. They're like, I think it's 10 to 15 percent of our population. It's pretty large number, um, suffers from some sort of digestive condition or some sort of autoimmune condition that is, um, influenced by nutritional variables.

That's influenced by diet, right? And the most appropriate way for that person to figure out what the best diet is for them is through a very meticulous process of eliminating specific foods, seeing if symptoms improve, reintroducing those foods, seeing if symptoms come back. And that's a telltale sign that that food is probably something that they shouldn't be consuming on a regular basis.

A lot of people have sensitivities to what are called FODMAPs. FODMAPs are a particular type of carbohydrate in some foods like Broccoli, tomato, and a couple of different plant based foods. And you have to be very meticulous and eliminate things from your diet that you eat regularly to see if they're causing discomfort.

Well, what happens when you go on a carnivore diet? You eliminate [00:20:00] all of them, right? So you eliminate everything that's causing discomfort and you feel better. And people think it's just the fact that meat makes them feel really good. And it's like, no, you're eating only meat, but it's the fact that you're not eating that other stuff that was causing issues that now makes you feel good.

And what makes me sad is that that type of person could benefit from a health perspective. Of including some more foods don't cause GI distress that, um, are not just me. Right. Because they, they could, again, they could have health benefits from consuming these other foods. 

Jacqueline: I was juSt going to say my brother in law has been on a carnivore diet and he's very, very restrictive with it. But I think it's interesting that Dr. Saladino came out, I don't know, pretty recently. And he's obviously not as restrictive as he used to be, right?

Like now he includes fruit and honey and he's, you know, he loves eating squash. So I think it's interesting to see like how, like his, perspective has also kind of shifted over the past, you know, several years as

Joey Munoz: People like that really crack me up because it's like, they come up with all [00:21:00] these reasons to justify the way they eat. It's like, dude, just eat, just eat what you want. Here's the funny thing. Like. I tend to lean towards a more like meat based and fruit based diet naturally because I enjoy those foods and I have an overall healthy diet and like I just naturally gravitate towards those foods more.

I ate a ton of fruit. I have a lot of dairy, yogurt, cheese. I have, um, a lot of meat. I have a lot of veggies. Uh, I eat a good amount of rice, but those are, I have oatmeal, but those are like the main foods that I eat. But I'm not saying like, I don't. Hop online and say, like, this is the optimal human diet because there are people that eat the complete opposite of that and are extremely healthy, right?

Because there are other things besides the specific foods you eat that influence health that are really important. And that's the issue. And I was gonna say, I'm happy you've mentioned Paul Saladino, because I would say the third type of person that you see doing this is the type of person that markets it and turns it into a business.

Because, [00:22:00] unfortunately. You can market something that's really specific, really well, right? Like I have this new diet that's defined by X, Y, Z. It's super specific and it's helped all these people do X, Y, Z really ridiculous claims, whereas it's way more difficult to market a balanced and sustainable diet, right?

Um, I would say that's the main reason why, cause a lot of these doctors, one don't have a nutritional background. And two, they fall into these different dieting camps, and they all have like books they sell, like The Carnivore Code by Paul Saladino, and like, I just saw this other dude, I forget his name, I wish I remembered his name, because I would love to say who he is, but he's another doctor, I think he might be a chiropractor or something.

And you might have seen my video on it. He was like, our bananas healthy. Let me tell you the truth. And his answer was bananas are only healthy if you eat them where they grow. And then he says that that's something that he talks about in his like [00:23:00] seasonal, whatever chapter in his book. And I'm like, Man, I hope people don't fall for stuff like that 'cause it's so stupid.

And I was just laughing. 'cause if you go to the comments like, well one person's like, I live in the desert, so like , you know? Uh, yeah,

exactly. So, I don't know. I think a lot of it is just marketing and people making businesses out of, out of these 

Jacqueline: Yeah. It's so sad too, because again, for the otherwise lay individual who like doesn't know about you, for example, and like all the content you put out and they're looking for, you know, trustworthy sources, or maybe they're doing their own research on Google.

There's a lot of misinformation out there. And I feel like too, even when it comes to clinical trials, you could find a PubMed study for almost anything, 

Joey Munoz: Yes. The difficult part with reading research is that you really need to understand how research is conducted to be able to disseminate the results because. You can find the research study that supports anything [00:24:00] that's not fully true if you know how to dive deep in the method methodology of research, and that's what people don't know how to do, because you can find a study supporting a keto diet for weight loss.

You and I both know that keto can help with weight loss, right? But then you look at the methods and they didn't control for like total caloric intake, for example. Right. So it'll be like, all right, we compared a group of individuals who followed a keto diet versus a group of people who didn't follow a keto diet.

And the people who followed a keto diet lost more weight. That's research supporting keto diet. And it shows that calories don't matter. And that's, they fill that second part. And it's like, wait, the study doesn't support that. It doesn't support that calories don't matter because caloric intake wasn't equated for.

Right. So that's the issue. It's like. If you actually do justice to the research and you read through the methods, you'll see that research is pretty consistent. It's not [00:25:00] consistent if you just read titles and abstracts and share that. That's what most people do.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that makes sense. And I mean, even to just in the cancer space, right? There has I mean, diet in the cancer space is even more challenging to disseminate and discern, you know, what is truth and what is not. And certainly there's been a lot of research. I had Dr Thomas Seyfried. He's one of the first people I had on my podcast and he obviously is a big proponent of restricting glucose and glutamine when it comes to, Helping to prevent angiogenesis and other cancer formation and you know, I've had my mom on like so many different types of diets She did try a very strict keto diet For about like four months She tried to keep her GKI below like two which was nearly impossible because for her we found that anytime she would eat vegetables It would spike her GKI and we're like, she needs vegetables in her diet, right?

Especially with an ER positive breast cancer. Um, and then we just realized that wasn't sustainable because [00:26:00] it just created stress in terms of having to track the food. And it was like, she wasn't really hitting her needs every single day because it would knock her out of ketosis. So it's really been, you know, an experiment there.

Now she's pretty much on a, Mediterranean diet. Includes most food groups and she's not stressed about what she's eating, 

Joey Munoz: talking about nutrition and cancer. This is an area that I'm not an expert in, but I would, I would be happy to connect you with my good friend, who is Dr.

Joesendal. He doesn't have a massive social media following, but he's a really good friend of mine. He's great.

Yeah, yeah, he's fantastic. I had him on my podcast a couple weeks ago. Um, if you want to check out that episode and then if you want to have him on, I'd be happy to connect you with him. 

Jacqueline: Yeah, no, I think I reached out to him. Um, maybe a year or so. He was, was he on the Genius Life

too? I think I heard his episode. 

Joey Munoz: Yeah, 

Jacqueline: yeah.

sweet. All right. There you go. Yeah, I'll give it a listen. 

Joey Munoz: And I brought him up because you mentioned glucose and cancer, right? And there are a ton of proponents of ketogenic diets for cancer. And listen, this is outside of my area of expertise. I know. I think there's some research showing some efficacy for some [00:27:00] specific cancers with lower carbohydrate diets.

But I asked Joe about this as well. And the thing is that like, yeah, Cancer is really smart if you don't feed it 

carbohydrates, it will just get carbohydrate through local tissue because we can convert other things that are non carbohydrates into carbohydrate into glucose essentially. And this is what Joe is saying.

It's like, even if you don't eat carbs, the cancer still gets the glucose that it needs, like, because this is what people don't understand. It's like dietary glucose. It's not the main source of glucose for these tumors the same way how people talk about like Cholesterol and people don't understand that dietary cholesterol is not the main source of cholesterol in your body You actually produce like 60 to 70 percent of the cholesterol in your body And lowering your cholesterol levels comes down more to improving your body composition than it does to lowering the amount of cholesterol that you consume because we have a pretty like homeostatic set point for a lot of these things.

And if you eat more cholesterol, your [00:28:00] body produces slightly less. And if you eat less cholesterol, your body produces more. So the dietary cholesterol doesn't influence the serum cholesterol that much, but it's this nuance that people don't understand. Right. And they're like, Oh, tumors use glucose. Well, don't eat glucose.

It's like, yeah, kind of. But do the tumors. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah,

Jacqueline: mean, gluconeogenesis, right? Like if you take a person and you make them fast for 48 hours, their blood sugar levels like might be slightly lower, but like they're still going to be there, right? Where is that coming from? Um, no, I, I agree with that. And it's quite honestly for that. Very reason where I was like, I'm not a proponent of keto for cancer again.

I think there are certain cases like brain cancer I think it could be effective But it's not really that sustainable and also too. I think the issue there is people isolate sugar compounds like fructose, right? From the food. They're not looking at the food as a whole. And we know blueberries, for example, are so rich in antioxidants and polyphenols and have so many incredible benefits that are anti [00:29:00] cancer.

But if you look at it through the lens of glucose, you're going to villainize the food, right? Because it has sugar

Joey Munoz: that's what I was going to mention. It's like you eliminate these berries and veggies and all of these foods are so rich in compounds that have health benefits, right? Antioxidative anti inflammatory properties. These are things that people don't tend to talk about or don't really know much about.

They're just like, Oh, This has glucose. This has fructose. It's like, that's not the way it works because that's not the only thing you're eating when you eat that thing, you know, you got to look at the diet as a whole and not just as like specific parts because it doesn't work that way. You don't grab a blueberry and just eat the glucose or just eat the fructose.

You're eating the whole blueberry. So we have to look at what effects does eating a blueberry have, not what effects does it have. Right. I'm happy about that 

point up. 

Jacqueline: So true. We could, we could chat for hours again, like cancer, cancer nutrition is a whole topic in itself. I'm going to check out that episode. Um, another question I had for you, and you mentioned before intermittent fasting. So again, this might [00:30:00] work for some folks. I found that it might increase the likelihood to binge, for example, if someone like doesn't eat until 12 o'clock in the afternoon, right, and is fasting all morning.

Um, so I've kind of changed my strategy in the sense of, I eat a very, uh, Protein rich early breakfast. Um, and then I'll do my workout. And that's quite honestly been such a game changer for me in terms of frequency of, of meal timing. What have you seen be an effective meal timing strategy across the board?

Joey Munoz: Yeah. Okay. I like talking about this because people tend to just focus on like the foods they eat and not talk about like scheduling and timing, which I think can be important as well. Um, so first and foremost, I want to say that like. I've used intermittent fasting and I like it, right? So it's funny because like a lot of these things that I talk quote unquote against about, I'm not talking, I'm not against these things, I just hate when people like make them seem more than what they

actually are, right?

Yeah, yeah, or make them seem like there's some magical solution to something, because that's not the case. [00:31:00] It's like, hey, like I mentioned at the beginning, I said intermittent fasting. It's a tool if you enjoy it, right? It's just, it's not like the thing is you can do intermittent fasting and gain weight, right?

That's the thing. It doesn't cause weight loss. It doesn't cause health improvements. It's just a way to restrict the amount of food that you eat. And if it works for you, it works for you. That's great. Now, what works in terms of meal timing meal structure? So these are some of the main habits that I work on with a lot of my clients when it comes to.

Uh, well, we'll say nutrient timing. I'm a huge, huge fan of having a big breakfast. Why? All the research just clearly shows that people who have more of their food intake earlier in the day. Have better body composition, better health outcomes, better hunger regulation, um, and have greater energy expenditure.

That last one's really important. I would say that that last one probably encompasses one of the main reasons as to why they have better health and better body composition

Jacqueline: Yeah. And blood sugar balance too. 

Right. Is that a part of that 

Joey Munoz: Yeah. Well, it's going to come down to cause the blood sugar stuff [00:32:00] really comes down to body composition as well. Right. And we can talk about this as well, but like. If you're having breakfast and that's helping you be healthier, yeah, your blood sugar is probably going to be in a better place as well.

Right. Um, so I always encourage people to start off a day with a big breakfast, ideally protein rich, ideally one or two servings of fruits and veggies. Right. I know that's easier. So I've been done for people, but like

Jacqueline: What's on, what's on your

Joey Munoz: I was about to share that. So my breakfast every day is pretty much the exact same thing.

Um, I have Like four whole eggs. Uh, and then I'll have either like a serving of Greek yogurt or a serving of like some chicken sausage. Um, my wife makes us chicken sausage, state stuff that I really like. And so like half a days, it's that half days it's Greek yogurt. And that puts me at about 40 to 50 grams of protein.

And then I usually have some fruit, either banana or apple or some melon or something like that. That's my breakfast every day. And. I eat that like an hour to an hour and a [00:33:00] half before going to the gym. They usually have breakfast around seven 30. I go to the gym around nine in the morning. 

Um, yeah, yeah.

That's my, that's my general breakfast. We tend to wake up at around six or six 30. We go for a walk around the neighborhood with our son and then we have breakfast and then I do some work and then I go to the gym. When it comes to like meal frequency. It really doesn't matter at all. What, what I try to emphasize more is meal regularity, like whatever your schedule is, find a schedule that you can stick to, because that's the most important thing, right?

For me, and I think this works for most people just around. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and a snack is what I stick to most days. I think that works really well for most people. But again, some people like intermittent fasting and they want to do two meals. That's fine. Just find a schedule that works for you and stick to it.

Try to have a larger amount of food earlier in the day versus later in the day. Um, the reason why I say a regular meal schedule, it's because there's also data showing that people who have [00:34:00] regularity with their eating, have better hunger regulation. I think that one's pretty self explanatory, right? Like if you typically eat lunch around noon, you're going to feel hungry around noon.

If you eat at the same time every day, it means you prioritize your nutrition, making sure you have food ready at those days, at those times, I should say, versus like, Hey, it's noon and I don't have my lunch ready and now it's 1 PM and I'm starving. All right. I'm going to go through the drive thru at McDonald's and get whatever, right?

So. Prioritization is a big part of that, but, um, there's just a regulation also with hunger, regulating hormones, and your circadian rhythm. And if you eat at similar times every day, it's easy to align those. I would encourage people to limit food intake at night in close proximity to sleep.

Um, and I'm not going to be hypocritical because I always eat a little bit before bed, but it's usually something small, but there's also really good research showing that large amounts of food right before bed can impact sleep quality.

And we know that sleep quality impacts health in a number of reasons. Sleep can impact hunger regulation in a negative way, right? Can make you hungrier. Sleep negatively impacts energy expenditure. So like, [00:35:00] that's why I said earlier too, that everything impacts everything because everything really does impact everything.

And the easiest way to improve your health is just to focus on improving every little thing just a little bit, right? Cause if you try to get the best diet, but you sleep four hours a night, like forget about your diet, focus on improving your sleep, you know? 

Jacqueline: So true. Yeah. I love that. I, um, I just got an aura ring. It was my Christmas gift to myself and it's been so fun. Dr. Joey to just experiment with things. So like, again, I don't, I don't really eat late at night, but one night I was like, I'm going to eat late at night just to see what this does to my sleep.

And it's insane what my aura ring showed the following morning. Like, yeah. It was, it was not a good night's sleep and I also felt pretty horrible too in the morning, right? So you don't really need a device just to kind of assess that eating right before bed Like won't really make you feel too hot when 

you wake up. 

Joey Munoz: I used to track my sleep stuff and then I stopped because it would drive me nuts like Yeah, like I would just let it impact the [00:36:00] way that I felt like I feel like a little bit was placebo Like if the thing told me that I didn't sleep Well, I would just like immediately be like, oh, I'm tired today and then the thing that that really got me was that I would go into the gym anticipating having a bad workout, right?

And then I would just like not push myself. And I was like, Oh, forget this. Like if I have a bad night of sleep, having data next day doesn't do anything for me because I already had the night of sleep. So I might as well just not look at it. That was my perspective.

Jacqueline: No, again, same, same page there. I like it mostly now just for cycle tracking. But um, yeah, with regards to the sleep scores, I try to avoid that too, because it is kind of just self fulfilling prophecy.

So yeah, I think it's it's it's I think the information can be helpful. It's just like the power is in the hands of the user, right? Like if you know that you're likely or you're more inclined to like let information like that impact you in a negative way or have so much control over you, maybe don't look at it, right? Yeah, speaking of [00:37:00] tracking too, what are your thoughts on, uh, on food tracking?

Joey Munoz: Um, so I'm, I'm a proponent of it as a tool to learn about nutrition. Um, I encourage my clients to track calories. So here's the thing. Like if you work with clients, it's a really helpful data point, right? Like seeing what their calories have been, uh, have been, because at the day, calories do matter. Now, the thing is.

I'm not a fan of people just focusing on tracking calories and nothing else for the reasons that we talked about before, right? It's just like people just focus on the calories and they're like not improving their diet quality at all. I think both are equally important. I'm a proponent of it because at the end of the day, if somebody is trying to lose weight and improve their health, they need to find a way of reducing their caloric intake.

Somebody has never focused on their nutrition and they don't really even know what calories are and they don't know about the calorie content of different foods, [00:38:00] then I think it's a really helpful way to learn about, um, in general, like how much does. 500 calories look like? Um, if you look at this plate, can you tell if it's calorically dense or not?

Do you know what sort of substitutions to make to make it less calorically dense? When you go out to a restaurant, do you know what sort of choices to make and stay on top of your nutrition? So I think it's a really helpful tool and I would encourage people to To if they've never done it, maybe track for a solid four to six months.

It's not something you have to forever. Obviously, it's not. I used to track myself. I haven't tracked anything in years, right? Um, because I just eat in a way where I can maintain my body composition pretty easily. And that's the goal, right? I think if you use tracking as an education tool while simultaneously focusing on improving your diet, your lifestyle.

And then you can ease off of tracking while maintaining those behaviors. I think that's great. I think the person that just tracks calories and does nothing else is going to have a hard time ever [00:39:00] coming off of tracking. Um, and some people don't mind that, right? Some people like, like tracking data. They don't mind it at all.

Like with my clients, it's very hit or miss. I have some clients that I literally tell them like, Hey, you don't need to track anything. They're like, no, I like doing it. I don't mind it. I'm like, all right, cool. That's that's fine. And then I have clients where it's like. Pulling teeth to have them to track something.

And I don't necessarily think they have to track stuff, but they're not seeing progress. They're not focusing on the healthy habits. They're not tracking anything. So Kate, that also comes down to like, are these goals important to you? Like, do you actually want to do this? It's going to take some work.

Right. Uh, but I see tracking from that perspective. I think it's a helpful tool to learn about nutrition. I think a very important part of nutrition.

Jacqueline: yeah. And also I feel like accountability too, right? Like, if you're gonna have that bowl of ice cream and you realize, Oh, I have to put this into my tracker, Like, it might make you think twice on how much

Joey Munoz: Yeah. I was going to say. Tracking calories or calories. It's just one [00:40:00] variable that you can track. I think tracking in general is very important for anything in life, right? It's like, Hey, if you're trying to save money, are you tracking how much you're spending? Are you tracking how much you're making?

Right. When it comes to nutrition and health, it's like. Yeah, you could track your calories. You could also track your protein. You can track how many servings of fruits and veggies you get. You can track your steps. You can track your weight. You can track your workouts. Like, you should be tracking some of these things.

If your health is important to you, you should track some of these things.

Jacqueline: Yeah, no, can I agree more? Here's a question for you. So before we were talking about, you know, the whole concept of nourishment over restriction and how that's been a game changer for not only you, but a lot of your clients. But in terms of like, tactically helping the people you coach change that mindset, like for those who are so Like black in the black and white sense of, of, you know, how they view food and exercise and everything.

Like, how do you actually help them make that mindset change of [00:41:00] it's okay to indulge, right? Like that slice of pizza is not the end all be all when they're so, in that, in that other mode.

Joey Munoz: Yeah, it's a, it's a process. It doesn't happen overnight, right? It's just, it comes down to ongoing communication. Like, clients will share with me like, Oh, I feel bad I ate this yesterday. And we'll have a conversation about that. About why they shouldn't feel bad about eating a certain thing. And then I'll ask them, but did you get your fruits and veggies in?

But did you do this? And they're like, Oh no, I didn't. And I'm like, if you're going to feel bad about something, feel bad about the fact that you didn't do the stuff that you said you were going to do. Like, don't feel bad about the fact that you had some pizza, but, uh, okay. So I tackle this in a couple of different approaches.

First off, when somebody starts working with us, they know what our philosophy is like straight off the bat, right? Cause one of the first things we do is educate them on what our philosophy is to health and fitness. Um, second to that is we only track the stuff that they should be doing. We don't track whether they eat pizza or not.

Cause truly. Doesn't really matter. Right. So when I check in with my clients, um, when we first start working together, I identify some [00:42:00] specific habits that would be beneficial for them. We'd build upon them over time. And then we would check in. We just track those habits. And the way that I helped them establish these habits is by.

Like asking them to come up with a game plan to implement the habit, right? Like if somebody starts working with me and they're barely eating protein, like, all right, we should be eating 150 grams of protein. I will tell them like, Hey, before tomorrow or next 48 hours, can you go through this resource that I have, which is like a protein guide and tell me exactly what foods you're going to eat and it works in what quantities so that you can meet your protein goals and maybe come up with two or three different options for different days.

So it encourages them to actually put time and effort into figuring out how much protein they have to eat and what foods they have to eat. So it creates some.

Jacqueline: Yeah.

Joey Munoz: It helps educate them. It makes them feel confident that they can do it. And then in our app, they essentially just like, at the end of the day, hit yes or no, like whether they did their habit.

So then when I check in, I can see what their compliance has been and they're struggling with a particular habit. We'll talk about it, but we put zero emphasis on whether or [00:43:00] not they had some ice cream or not. Right. I just asked them like, you do have this stuff, just track it. It's fine. Just track it. And then if you go over, we can talk about that as well.

And then I think that also helps them at least from the mindset of like focusing on the things that they should be focusing on. And then the aspect of not feeling guilty about eating certain things. It's just ongoing conversation, really. It's just there. I wish there was a educational piece or something that can help somebody overcome those things.

But the truth is that most people deep down know that eating a slice of pizza doesn't matter, but they still feel bad about it. And that's why, that's why I think coaching is so helpful and so powerful. Cause it's really helping people navigate those things.

Jacqueline: Yeah. I love that. Couldn't agree more. Did you work with Layne Norton? Did you work at Biolayne and now you're doing your own thing. Okay.

Joey Munoz: Yeah. That's how, that's where I 

started it. I think it's like four years ago now. 

Jacqueline: Wow. 

Joey Munoz: I, uh, I've looked up to lane forever and I used to listen to his podcast. He had a podcast back in the day and he had an episode. [00:44:00] It was more like a, a mindset and like success type of episode. And he was like, if you want something, go for it.

Like ask people for opportunities. This and that. And And I listened to that episode. I was like, all right, I'm going to email you. So I emailed him, like I was finishing up grad school and stuff, seeing if there was any way I could get involved. And then I started writing for his website. I don't know, probably seven or eight years ago now.

And then that turned into a coaching position. And then, 

Jacqueline: That's awesome. 

Joey Munoz: ago now I decided to start my own thing.

Jacqueline: Good for you. Well, I'm certainly glad you did. And again, let me know how I can help support. Um, and I think it's really interesting too that like we see more and more like folks in the wellness space that were otherwise like very focused on just like the physical component go into the mental. Space, like Dr.

Axe, for example, like his new podcast, the Dr. Josh Axe show, highly recommend. He's all about mindset now. So he does still incorporate some wellness elements into his show, but it's really about the power of the mind. And I think that is also [00:45:00] underlying in a lot of your content again, and talking about like the perspective by which, we live our lives and how we exercise and how we choose to view food as, you know, nourishment over.

Joey Munoz: You can't separate the two. Essentially somebody who is fit is somebody who has. A good mindset around fitness for the most part, right? Cause there's some people who are really fit from being really restrictive and all this. And we see that a lot in like the bodybuilding space, but somebody who lives a fit, healthy life probably has a really good mindset around health and fitness as well.

And for sure, somebody who is very unhealthy physically doesn't have a healthy mindset around health and fitness at all. And you can't separate one from the other. Cause it's like, again, the person who approaches fitness from an unhealthy mindset perspective is probably going to lean towards doing a lot of those restrictive things we were talking about at first.

It's going to have a hard time embracing that. This is a lifestyle and something you got to do literally the rest of your life. Like if you want to be in shape until you die, you got to be doing healthy things until you die. That is not a hard [00:46:00] concept to understand, right? It's like, it's pretty damn simple.

Um, it's just like, Hey, if you want to make money from your job, you got to keep working until you don't want to make money from your job anymore. Right? Like it's 

that simple, but. 

Jacqueline: Exactly.

Joey Munoz: The mindset piece is really important.

Jacqueline: And I also too, I, I love how transparent you are with everything. And you had a comment, I think one of your recent podcast episodes where you were like, I don't really care about having a six pack anymore. Right. Like to you, that's not worth the, You know, restriction of if you got with your family and you want to enjoy a piece of cake or pizza, like you value that over having a six pack.

And I think, like, at the end of the day, these messages that we receive from all these influencers on social media about this is how you have to look in order to, you know, be the best in your space or, you know, feel your best. Like, that's 

not true. 

Joey Munoz: This really bothers me when, um, it's a lot of these business gurus too, or just like, unless you have a six pack, you're not going to work in my company. It's like, dude, you have a six pack and you're roided up. Like, what are you talking about? And [00:47:00] two, it doesn't mean anything.

Like some people just naturally have a six pack at a higher body fat percentage. And. 

It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't, it doesn't mean anything, right? It doesn't mean that it might mean they have an eating disorder. Whoopie loop, right? Like big deal. 

And it's like, for some people having a very defined six pack.

And I say six pack, cause that's, I feel like a very tangible thing that a lot of people want. They're like, I want a six pack. I like it. If you sell somebody, I'm going to be fit and in shape. They, they associate that with having a six pack. And so it's just an easy thing. That's, tangible, right? But like being that lean doesn't mean anything.

If you want to be that lean, because you want to be that lean, that's fine. That's great. I'm never going to, I never discourage people from trying to achieve certain goals either. I'm not going to tell you having a six pack is stupid. Like if you want it, that's fine, but it's not going to have any value.

It doesn't mean you're any, any more fit. It doesn't mean you're any healthier.

In fact, you're probably healthier with a little bit more body fat. You'll probably feel better [00:48:00] with a little bit more body fat. 

You'll probably perform 

better. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Especially for women. And for me, like, I really, really prioritize my performance in the gym.

Um, and when I start getting too lean, like I just start feeling weak in the gym. And I really don't enjoy that. Like I get a lot of joy out of lifting heavy stuff when I try to lift what I consider heavy, heavy stuff. I don't feel good. Um, and it's funny that I'm even saying this because right now I'm trying to get a little bit leaner, just.

literally just for fun. Um, I'm trying to see how lean I can get without tracking your calorie. 

Jacqueline: That's funny. But see, like, I love that because, like, that's just a fun personal goal that you have. And I think for the other folks who, like, aspire to have that six pack, like, they're putting their identity in getting that six 

Joey Munoz: Yeah, 

I personally, I agree with you. There probably is some reason I personally, another thing I, I don't like doing is trying to label [00:49:00] or like, even like figure out why people do a certain thing. Cause I think it's really easy to say like, Oh, this person does this because of this, that happened in their past or whatever.

I'm like, maybe. But maybe not. Like, I, I like to just live in the present and just be like, all right, you want to do this? That's fine. But just know that, you know, if you want to do it, that's fine, but it doesn't mean anything. We don't need to justify it. We don't need to like, come up with a rationale because at the end of the day, like, from my perspective, like, those things just don't mean that much.

Right. And I think we all, A lot of people have things that they struggle with from when they were a child or whatever. sometimes it's also really easy to like placebo ourselves into saying like, I'm this way because of this thing that happened to me,

Jacqueline: So true. So true. Yeah. Can I have you back on for an episode just on that? Cause I have a lot to say on that subject. Awesome. Well, Dr. Joy, this has been so much fun. We touched on so much, but I feel like there's still so much to still go into. So I do [00:50:00] hope to have you back on at some point, but where can listeners find you?

Joey Munoz: So all of my social media platforms are at Dr. Joey Munoz. My podcast is the Dr. Joey Munoz show. Cause I'm not creative enough to come up with a really good

podcast. 

I saw the name of your podcast.

I'm like, man, that's a good name. That's I wish I thought of it. And, uh,

Jacqueline: I just added how to be in front of my platform name, so it wasn't that

Joey Munoz: and lastly, if, um, any of you guys listening want to work with me and my team and have goals around improving health and fitness in a healthy and sustainable way, you can check us out at fit for life academy dot health. 

Jacqueline: I'll include the links to everything in the show notes so people will be able to access all of that. But, um, my last question, and this is my favorite one to ask, and that is, what does being well and strong mean to you?

Joey Munoz: I have these questions for me, because I feel like I could think about them for forever. I think being well and strong means leading a life where [00:51:00] you are, I think the word healthy can mean so many different things to so many people, but you're happy both from a physical and, and mental perspective, right?

That the things you do physically make you happy and you're in a good place mentally as well. Um, I feel like that's, that's so generic and cookie cutter. Cause it's hard to define those things for me personally. It means being able to do the stuff that I like to do and taking care of myself physically.

And that's right. Being able to go to the gym, not caring so much about whether I look a particular way, being happy with the stuff that I do day to day with my work, because that's incredibly important. I would say that's probably having alignment with the things that you do. And with the things that you want.

I hope that's a good enough 

Jacqueline: I love that. I love that. That was beautiful. The word that came to mind when you were saying all that was freedom. And I think you have that, you know, in every area. Well, again, congratulations on starting your venture. I'm super excited for [00:52:00] you. Let me know how I can help support. And I'm super excited to share this with

listeners. Awesome. 

Joey Munoz: We'll stay connected. 


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Jacqueline Genova

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