How To Be WellnStrong

67: Restore Your Mitochondria with Methylene Blue | Dr. Scott Sherr, MD

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 67

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Introduced by German chemist Heinrich Caro as a textile dye in the 19th century, methylene blue soon attracted the interests of notable scientists like Robert Koch and Paul Ehrlich. Recognizing its unique antimicrobial properties, they helped transition it from textile labs to medical clinics. By the early 20th century, methylene blue had gained recognition as an innovative malaria treatment, a role it continues to have today. Methylene blue may also offer a wide range of other significant health benefits, beyond fighting infections. By acting as an “electron donor”, methylene blue supercharges your mitochondria, or the powerhouses of your cells. Join me as I sit down with Dr. Scott Sherr, MD, and explore how this incredible compound is currently being used to treat chronic illness, boost cognitive functioning, improve energy, reduce inflammation, and even offer anti-aging benefits.

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(*Unedited Transcript)
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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] When we were emailing, I, it was funny. Cause initially, you know, we were discussing topics to chat about and we spoke about methylene blue. I've heard of methylene blue years ago, specifically in the context of cancer. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. But now there's so many applications of of its usage and So much to cover, but I'd love if we could just start off with a bit of the history behind it. And I mean, I initially heard, that it was used as a means to cure malaria.

Is that true?

Dr. Sherr: This is also true. Yes. So malaria. So back way back in 1897, uh, uh, methylene blue was the first drug registered with the FDA at that time was a very nascent and early organization. The first, it was just, just starting at that point. And the first indication for using methylene blue was for malaria, but before that, actually, so nothing blue was actually, uh, Created as a textile dye.

So it was something that would dye your blue jeans, blue, for example, [00:01:00] as, and so if you got blue jeans in the mid 1800s, it was probably because they were blue from methylene blue, but somehow they figured out that this particular dye also treated various infections, including malaria. And it's unclear exactly how they got from dyeing blue jeans to treating malaria.

But what they did realize is that. Even at very high doses of methylene blue, you could kill pathogens, including malaria, but you would leave the normal cells, the host cells intact without any damage. And that's why it got the name of a magic bullet at the time, because at that point, there were no antibiotics.

There was no antimicrobials available. Everything was really. Uh, very, very early on in that process, there was penicillin and antimicrobials didn't come around to the 1950s. And so you had methylene blue being one of the primary antimicrobials available, um, after about 1897. And so it was used for any number of different things, fungal infections, bacterial [00:02:00] infections, especially urinary tract infections because methylene blue concentrates in the urine.

And this is when you urinate, when you're taking methylene blue, your pee will be a bluish color most likely. And so do not be alarmed. This is a normal and benign effect of taking methylene blue, but there was even Songs by, uh, by the military, uh, during world war two about having to take methylene blue when they were in the Pacific, because there was more prone for, for fungal infections and because they were in swamps and jungles and things like that.

And so they'd have songs about urinating blue as a result of taking methylene blue. So it was started off as a treatment for malaria and other, and other infections at much higher doses overall than we use most, most of the Now for methylene blue and the dosing, especially when we're talking about mitochondrial function, which is a little bit different, but when we're talking as an anti infective, um, these higher doses, like over about a milligram per kilogram, it's about 50 to 70 milligrams or higher in the doses were used for a [00:03:00] lot of these infections.

Jacqueline: Interesting. I also heard that hospitals actually have to carry it today in the event of, is it cyanide poisoning? Is that also true?

Dr. Sherr: Yeah, so it's actually still on the World Health Organization's list of essential medications for not actually just cyanide poisoning, but something also so cyanide poisoning is very, very rare, as you can imagine. Cyanide is a toxin that actually destroys part of the powerhouse of your cellular mitochondria.

And because Cyanide does that you can't make energy. But what methylene blue can do is actually rescue and Compensate for that poisoning and prevent you from fully losing the capacity to make energy So so yes, if you have if you're poisoned by cyanide, which is unusual Methylene blue is a rescue for that.

Methylene blue is also a rescue for something called methemoglobinemia Very long name all that really means in essence is that you're Red blood cells, which typically carry oxygen are unable to do it. [00:04:00] There's a lot of different reasons why this may happen. Um, but in essence, what, what as a result of being, not being able to carry the oxygen, obviously you can't Oxygenate yourselves and you can't get energy made.

And so methane blue allows you to reverse that process and allows you to carry oxygen as a result of, um, having methylene blue and bored. So I have a friend of mine, he's an ER doc in southern California, and he uses it not often, but he does use it when you have this, this change in the ability to carry red blood cells.

Um, it's also used in severe sepsis, a severe, uh, Overwhelming infection. And this is a very high doses of methylene blue. Um, it's used as sort of more of like a last ditch effort, but in other countries around the world where they don't have the access to the same things that we do, it's actually used more frontline because it actually can increase the vascular tone.

So decrease the vasodilation or the dilation of blood vessels that can happen with a severe septic shock. kind of thing. 

So, 

and it's also [00:05:00] used in the medical world for medical marking. So in breast cancer, for example, it's used to look for sentinel nodes and in transplant surgery and GYN surgeries, it's it's used to make sure that the bladder and the ureters that come from the kidneys that That fill into the bladder, um, like little tube that does that, you know, it goes back and forth, or it just goes from the kidneys to the bladder.

Like they checked to make sure they didn't make any damage to that. So they actually inject methylene blue into the ureter or into the bladder to make sure nothing's coming out and going the wrong way. So it's, yeah, there's absolutely a number of medical uses still.

Jacqueline: So interesting. So you kind of touched on it, but the actual mechanism by which it works, so I've heard it's basically a redox agent. For someone like very, like, what's the, the elementary description of, of how it actually works? Um, you know, it enhances mitochondria, ATP production, like what is the, the 101, Dr.

Scott?

Dr. Sherr: So it's a really interesting molecule because [00:06:00] it has what's called this redox capacity. But the key is to understand the dosing like very, very low doses of methylene blue, um, have more of this redox capacity and these higher doses. And I'll talk about what that means in a minute. And these higher doses actually have the capacity to do that.

Plus have this anti infective or this, uh, this rescue function as we have been describing. Okay. So the thing about methylene blue is that, um, it has a number of different ways it can work. And so when we're talking about this redox portion, what that means is that in your mitochondria, which are the part of your cell that make energy, you have two things that are really happening there, like there's.

You know ton things a ton of things, of course, but in essence, we're making energy and we're making the products of making energy So the energy that we make is called atp. That's the currency of our cells And that's what our cells need to make and to function. So that's adenosine triphosphate atp so And on the other side [00:07:00] of things, we have these what are called, you know, quote unquote waste products of making energy.

So we have carbon dioxide, which we breathe off as everybody knows, and then we have water, and then we have a couple of these small additional things called reactive oxygen species or reactive oxygen, uh, molecules or oxidative stress. And so these are called, these are These in small amounts are very, very important because they help signal and feedback with the whole rest of the system that's happening in the mitochondria.

So you have this balance between energy production and the balance between the, the products of energy production, the energy metabolism, the, the carbon dioxide, water, and these free radicals, also called free radicals, oxidative stress, reactive oxygen species. That's all the same thing. Um, for this all describing the same thing.

So what methylene blue can do. Okay. Is help you make energy in a lot of different ways, but what, in essence, what it can do is that, you know, [00:08:00] 96 percent of the United States population, or maybe it's 94%, but it doesn't matter. 94 percent of the U S population has some element of mitochondrial dysfunction in the capacity, either to help make energy well or to detox, but a lot of it's on the energy side.

And so. Oh, that's a good question. So, there's a lot of different reasons. Uh, the most common reason that we have mitochondrial dysfunction is actually insulin resistance. So, people that have high blood sugars, that have a, that have increased blood sugars and overall cause more inflammation in the body, especially in the mitochondria.

And this is causing, you know, mitochondrial dysfunction. So, energy production problems. It's an over, uh, overreaction. production of energy initially, actually, uh, because you have too much glucose around to do it. And then that causes feedback loops that causes deterioration of how well we can make energy over time.

So, um, insulin resistance is number one, um, toxins in our environment are very, very, uh, very big in these, including like things like heavy metals, for [00:09:00] example, I can, you know, destroy parts of our mitochondria or make them dysfunctional, uh, medications that we take, uh, various medications, common medications, a common medication that.

Many people take for diabetes is called metformin. It also is something that, uh, causes dysfunction. And on one of the areas on the mitochondria called our complex one, for example. Um, so, uh, those are some of the major categories, but, uh, overall. As a result of that, about 94 percent of the United States population has some element of metabolic dysfunction, which is the ability to make energy in a detox.

And that really does translate into into the same amount that have mitochondrial dysfunction as well. So it's what methylene blue can do is it, it can help with Any aspect of the parts that are helping you make energy and any aspects of the parts that are helping you trying to detox at the same time.

And there's very few compounds that can do both. And that's what makes it so special is that, and that's what we call it a redox cycler because it can help balance or [00:10:00] compensate for any of those problems you're making, you're having with making energy. And, and, and, and at the same time, it can, if you're having too much in the detox and you have a hard time detoxifying, it can help you detoxify directly by acting directly like an antioxidant.

And also increasing the amount of antioxidants that you have in, in, in capacity and circulation too. Um, I have a question for you, uh, Jacqueline, do you know where we have the most mitochondria per cell?

Jacqueline: Um, 

Dr. Sherr: If you had to 

guess, like in, in, 

Jacqueline: I'm assuming, like, the most energy demanding tissues in the body, so, like, the brain and the heart.

Dr. Sherr: yeah, yeah, that's it. So the brain, the heart, the liver, your skeletal muscle. And actually the number one place in females is eggs, is your eggs, and a number one place in males is sperm because procreation is extremely energy, energy demanding. And so why are we seeing infertility? Uh, because.

mitochondrial dysfunction is kind of an end [00:11:00] process for a lot of other things that are happening, right? We're talking about toxins, medications, we can talk about infection, but that's another big one that causes mitochondrial dysfunction. So, and then if you have mitochondrial dysfunction that's happening in your brain, what do you have?

You have brain fog, you have fatigue, you have concentration problems. If it's your heart, you have cardiac issues. If it's your liver, detox. If it's your muscles, muscle, it's going to be, Exercise induced fatigue. And so a lot of my patients have exercise induced fatigue, and it's one of those things where they will exercise and then they can't move for like three days later.

Like that's a very common situation when you find where people have significant mitochondrial dysfunction. So the awesome thing about methylene blue is that you can start thinking about using it as a way to compensate for that mitochondrial dysfunction and, and start seeing the benefit very quickly as you start bringing it in to the picture.

Jacqueline: So interesting. I mean, based on that, you could essentially say it's great for everything, and I know there's a lot of different applications for it, so, again, we [00:12:00] probably don't have time to cover all of them, but, I mean, I've heard it's an incredible nootropic because it can also cross, like, blood vessels.

the blood brain barrier, but if you had to distill it down to maybe three of the most potent benefits that methylene blue could offer, what would they be?

Dr. Sherr: Well, I tell my patients all the time, it's, it's energy and resilience. So if you need more energy or you need more resilience, like you need to bounce back from things faster, um, then you really do see a benefit on both ends of with using methylene blue. Now, the key of it is really is that it's not, at least in my clinical practice, and I don't usually recommend it this way.

It's not done in a vacuum in the sense that you're not trying to work on, you know, the Your diet, your lifestyle, your behaviors, looking at optimizing your vitamins, minerals, nutrients, and supplement and cofactors and things like that. And so, uh, there is a big push on my side as a clinician. And we have a nonprofit organization that actually trains clinicians on how to think about health and a framework that's more focused on optimization rather than treating disease or looking for root causes.

And it's, it's, it's, it's, [00:13:00] it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, That's how my interest in methylene blue actually started to, uh, to, to come more, uh, to the surface overall, because we had this nonprofit, we're working with patients in a framework that's optimizing health and looking at optimizing that, uh, over overall takes a long time for most people.

It's not like you can optimize health over a month or two. Typically, typically it's going to take six months, a year. longer to truly optimize somebody, somebody's health. Because what I often tell my patients is like, it took you 40 years to get here. It's not like tomorrow you're going to start feeling better.

It's going to be a process. Like what can you do now while on the path to optimizing their health to help them now so that they have an easier way of getting to that And not that end, it's always going to be a process, but getting to the pro, getting to the place where they're feeling better, their, their energy is better and they're more resilient.

And so you can start using methylene blue very early in the process while you're working with patients, as I do, or in your own health journey, as you're [00:14:00] trying to find the right people to help you, or trying to work on your diet or your lifestyle, or, or looking at what kind of supplementation may help you, you can use methylene blue at very low doses.

titrate the dose over a period of time, which is what I typically would recommend. And so you start feeling like you're getting a benefit from it. Now, it doesn't mean that we want to have to have people take methylene blue for the rest of their life

though. Of course, the idea. Yeah. Yeah. The idea is that once we can get them feeling better, then it's easier for you to start.

Working on some of the harder things that take more brainpower, like changing your diet or getting more exercise or getting out of a relationship that sucks or whatever it might be. It's like, it really could be anything across the board. Maybe you need to sleep divorce from your wife, which just means you need to sleep in a different room because you know, your, your wife snores or vice versa.

And then you don't have the, you know, you're not, you just don't have enough energy to even tell them that until you start taking some methylene blue. And then you have this beautiful. Two bedroom situation where you're both sleeping amazingly well, and your relationship is much [00:15:00] better. You know, it's all these sort of things that, um, that are possible once you start feeling better.

Uh, and that's really what I think nothing blue can do. And, and you know, for a lot of people, they can wean themselves off of it over time or take it less only have when they have more stress overall. And especially if you're doing all the other things that on a day to day basis are making them feel good and, and helping them sustain a, 

an optimization kind of strategy.

Jacqueline: Yeah. Super interesting. Have you used it, um, in patients who have suffered from concussion?

Dr. Sherr: Yes. Yeah. So there's actually some pretty good animal data on concussion slash traumatic brain injury, which is really the same thing and also in strokes as well. And, and so, and there's a couple of different reasons why that this is the case. Um, so what's interesting about methylene blue is that these higher doses that we were alluding to earlier with infection, they're also fantastic for rescuing.

Severe. traumatic and ischemic and infectious kinds of things. And so they've looked at a traumatic brain [00:16:00] injury and they've looked at stroke and they've seen that you can rescue brain function if you give higher dose methylene blue early on after these things happen. Because what methylene blue can do as I was.

describing earlier, it really can work just like it can compensate for any area of your mitochondria that isn't working well. And the other thing it can do, which I didn't say is that it can act just like oxygen in your mitochondria. So we breathe oxygen so that we can make energy, right? Because oxygen is required in that mitochondria that we have, that many mitochondria that we have to help the whole process of energy metabolism, energy production.

Without it, we can't make energy. Methylene blue can compensate for having less oxygen around and actually act just like oxygen in your mitochondria. So if you have an acute hypoxic stress, say you have an acute concussion or a stroke or less crazy, you come to Colorado and visit me where there's 16 percent oxygen in the air versus 21%.

You are going to have less oxygen [00:17:00] around. Initially. It's not going to make you feel good. Or even a more common example, go on an airplane. If you go on an airplane, you're pressurized on that in the cabin of the plane to 8, 000 feet. So you are basically on an 8, 000 foot mountain as soon as you get on an airplane.

So if you're, you know, in South Carolina and you're used to being at sea level, go At 21 percent oxygen, which is the, the amount that we have at sea level, you go on an airplane down to about 13 percent oxygen. It's a significant decrease. Your body's not excited about that. So, um, your mitochondria aren't very happy.

So they get more inflamed. Um, they get, um, they start getting more stressed. Your immune system gets depressed and you get a higher chance of getting sick. And this is one of the main reasons. Other than time zone shifts of getting jet lag overall. So I use a lot of methane blue for jet lag overall for my patients and my family and everybody coming to visit me in Colorado.

So you can have like this spectrum of where methane blue can compensate for low oxygen levels. And so. In the short term, like higher [00:18:00] doses, especially for these more acute things, but like lower doses, like four, eight, 16 milligrams can go a long way to really start working on mitochondrial function, if it's not as severe as some of those more severe kinds of things.

Jacqueline: That's so interesting. I wish I, I wish I knew this. I mean, over a decade ago, I had some pretty severe concussions in college. Uh, the irony, Dr. Scott is none of them were sports related. It was like slipping on black ice in Boston. And then they say, you know, once you have one, you, you know, you're more susceptible to get more.

But, um, I mean, I did a lot of research on my own and I really, uh, honed into things like that. Like lion's mane mushrooms and high dose fish oil and et cetera, et cetera. Um, again, I read a lot of about like the benefits of hyperbaric oxygen, which I know I'm going to have you back on at some point to discuss for TBIs again, wasn't available to me at the time, uh, sadly, but I know you're also part of that movement to, to change that.

Um, but super interesting. So you mentioned that obviously it's really helpful in those acute cases. What about [00:19:00] more, you know, In the sense of like prevention. So here's an example. I had Dr. Matthew Dawson on the show from Wild Health on two weeks ago. His episode actually just published today. Um, he's also brilliant.

Um, we were going through an old genetic report I got and I found out I carry the APOE4 variant. For, you know, possible development of dementia. So we had a really great discussion on, you know, genetics are essentially useless, uh, without the context of lifestyle, right? And talking about epigenetics. So in someone with the APOE4 variant, would you recommend using methylene blue in more of a preventative manner?

Dr. Sherr: Yeah. It's a really good question. I think what it comes down to is that, um, I really appreciate the conversation that sounds like you had, which is that your genes aren't your destiny, right? Even if you have two of those APOE genes, which is, gives you like a 60 or 70 percent chance of getting early onset.[00:20:00] 

dementia, there's still a 30 percent chance that you won't. So, and, and so with one variant, it's, it's much lower than that. There is some increased risk, but it's not traumatic. It might be like, you know, two, I can't remember like, yeah, two or three, something like that. Right. So it's not a huge amount of increase, but there is some two or three times.

It's not, it's not a small amount, but it's, it's not, You know, 70 percent or something like that. So, um, the way I think about this is more holistically in general. I think that, I think that methylene blue can be a really great supportive, but it's not going to replace doing the other things that are required to optimize our health.

Right. So, um, and if I find that, um, that I find that methylene blue is really great in, in an older population overall, because in general, our brains get more. Stressed and more inflamed as we get older. And so, so having that as a support, it can be very, very helpful. There's been, there's actually been a couple studies that looked at, have looked at methylene blue for Alzheimer's

itself, actually. Um, and there's one that was looked at and they had these three different doses of methylene blue. One was a, like a low dose, like eight milligrams twice a [00:21:00] day. Like one was like a 75 milligram dose twice a day. It was 150 milligrams, um, twice a day. So like a huge difference in dosing and the, The lower the dose, the, what's supposed to be the placebo, the eight milligrams twice a day, but that was the patient group that actually got the best, um, had the best results as opposed to the higher doses overall.

And, and there's a reason for that. So, um, when you get higher doses of methylene blue, you are creating not only more energy, but you can over time potentially create more stress in the system too. So you have to be very careful with that. And so like, that's why higher doses, like over a milligram per kilogram or so should likely not be used over longer periods of time, but only used for short periods of time, if at all possible, because it can create, so methane blue has this redox capacity.

As we said, it has the energy production, the antioxidant capacity that you can have, but if you use high doses for long periods of time, it actually can have the opposite effect and just cause stress on the system.

Um, some of that stress is okay because in the short term, some of that stress actually causes like a release [00:22:00] of things like antioxidants, like glutathione, which is like your most powerful, but if you're using it over a long period of time, it could be detrimental.

And also if you're using these higher doses and you don't have the capacity to make those, some of those antioxidants yourself, because you're already depleted in them, that's going to be a problem too. So, um, so I think that's what happened in these kinds of patients where their brains were already under more stress.

And then they were giving them these higher doses of methylene blue, which are trying to stimulate their brain's production of glutathione, for example. And it just wasn't able to do that because they didn't have enough of their own antioxidants to do it. Right. So, um, Um, this is like a long winded answer to your question, but in essence, what I say for methylene blue for people that are healthy, that are pretty well optimized overall.

So like my athletes, my high performers, that 4 percent of the, or 6 percent of the U S population that doesn't have metabolic or mitochondrial dysfunction is that I have them use it when they are under more stress overall, right? So when they're going on an airplane or they had a bad night's of sleep or they're under more [00:23:00] stress at work than to use it then, as opposed to using it more regularly.

Um, because I think that there's a role for it under those more stressful conditions if you're metabolically healthy, but I don't know if you necessarily need it all the time. If you're not, if you, if you are metabolically healthy, that makes 

sense. But again, most of us need, I think the support on a relatively regular basis.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that makes sense. And I recall, was it, you mentioned it was between like 50 and 75 milligrams for cases of chronic infections that they used?

Dr. Sherr: Yeah, usually chronic infections are going to be somewhere between 50 and 50 and 300 milligrams. It could be all the way up to that dose, like 50 milligrams a day to 300 milligrams a

day, 

Jacqueline: And what's the length of time for that 

Dr. Sherr: So for chronic infections, it depends on kind of the course and how things are going overall. So some people it'll be, you know, Four weeks or six weeks. Some people it can be six months or a year, um, or longer in some people. But in that case, if you're taking those high doses, it's important. You're really being followed closely by a clinician and making sure you're looking at various types of markers that we described, making sure you're getting good antioxidant [00:24:00] supplies and supplementation.

Um, the other thing that high dose methylene blue can do, 50, 75, a hundred over long periods of times is actually shrink the. Uh, the diversity of your gut microbiota

because it's also an antifungal and antibacterial as well. So you have to think about the risk versus the benefit. But I have a colleague of mine that's taking 300 milligrams of methylene blue daily right now for Babesia and Bartonella.

Specifically, and actually, actually, it's more for Bartonella than Babesia. 

And so I have some of my Lyme docs and and that do those higher doses, but but in general Most people benefit at much lower doses than that overall if they have mitochondrial dysfunction as the primary and it's not an infection So what I will typically do with with my patients is um Is even if they have chronic infections and I want to get them to that higher dose I'll most always start off at lower doses and slowly titrate them up.

So I'll start off at like four [00:25:00] milligrams, which is really low, but it actually can be four milligrams can be fantastic for some people that have just pure, you know, just pure like mitochondrial dysfunction. I know that's, it sounds like it's kind of minimizing mitochondrial dysfunction, but, but even just a can go a very long way, but I usually titrate the dose four milligrams, and then I increase it every, every about three to five days.

I increase another four milligrams or so until I start seeing a response. And then depending on what that response is, if it's a mitochondrial response, fantastic. If that's what we're looking for, but if it's more of like an infectious kind of thing that we need to deal with, then we'll start increasing.

We'll, we'll go up on the dose further until we start seeing response to that infection. And that's usually, like it usually takes about 25 milligrams. To 50 milligrams until we start seeing a response to infection. But again, I like to go slowly because everybody that has chronic infection also has chronic mitochondrial dysfunction.

Right. And so if you go too fast, you can get people that get like those kinds of detox kinds of symptoms, you 

know, like the, [00:26:00] like you have muscle aching and

Jacqueline: Yeah.

Dr. Sherr: like muscle aching, like little abdominal discomfort, um, GI discomfort, um, some headaches, irritability, like those can happen with methylene blue too.

Um, But it doesn't typically happen as much if you start off at super low doses and titrate up over time, because it's like, it's kind of like methylene blues in adaptogen in some ways, when you start super low like that, if you need more detox, it's going to do that first. If you need more energy, it's going to do that first.

And then as you increase the dose, you'll see the benefits where you want to see them, um, macroscopic scale. So what does that mean? So less pain or better brain function, or you get pregnant, which is actually actually something we get reported a decent amount over, which is pretty crazy or your muscle induced or your, sorry, your extra dies, extra size induced fatigue fatigue gets better.

So you have all these other, these are the things that start happening as you start titrating the dose.

Jacqueline: That is so interesting. Yeah. I also heard, um, [00:27:00] as you mentioned before that high doses of it can cause gut dysbiosis. So if we're taking a milligram, you know. per kilogram of body weight, like we're not surpassing five milligrams a day, there shouldn't really be an issue with gut dysbiosis then.

Dr. Sherr: So to be clear on the dosing, so four milligrams, eight milligrams, 16, 25, those aren't really going to affect the gut microbiota very much at all. Okay. But once you get to about 50, 75, so 75 milligrams is about there were 70 milligrams. It's about one milligram per kilogram on for the average human. So when I say one milligram per kilogram, what I mean is that it's one milligram per kilogram of body weight, right?

So if you have, um, so if you have, if you're, uh, 70 kilograms right, then it's gonna be a 70 milligram dose. So 70 kilograms is about like 150 pounds. Just to kind of give a, give the, the, give the calculation for those who don't know the metric system very well. But, um, so just to give you a feel, so when we're talking about causing gut.

Changes. I wouldn't dysbiosis, I guess it would be, I would say more of it's [00:28:00] like a, it's a shrinkage of the gut diversity per se. Um, but that could lead to dysbiosis over time potentially. So, um, that's not going to happen until around 50 or 75 milligrams. If you're taking that over the longterm short term, not an issue.

Jacqueline: Okay. Is there a benefit of taking methylene blue intravenously or through drops, for example, than capsules?

Dr. Sherr: Yeah. So the methane blue IV has been around a long time and that's actually how it initially was after, I mean, it was an oral treatment for malaria, um, IV treatment as well once they started doing it, but, um, The IV is really not necessary for the most part, unless you have an acute issue, like, like you need to go to the hospital and you have cyanide poisoning, you have met hemoglobinemia, uh, you're using it in those capacities.

It's also used for, for septic shock or for infection sometimes too, at these higher doses. Uh, the, the interesting thing about methylene blue is that whether you take it orally. or you take it IV, almost 100 percent of it gets into the [00:29:00] body. And that's very rare because most things that we take, like a supplement, for example, we'll have a bioavailability that's much lower than the dose that you're taking.

So very common to have 10 or 20 percent bioavailability on a supplement, which means if you take a hundred milligrams or something, you're only getting about 10 milligrams in the body, for example, but with methylene blue, whether you take an IV or orally. You're going to get almost all of that in the system, which is super interesting.

It's just going to be how fast it gets in the body. So, IV is going to obviously be your fastest. A buccal delivery, so like in your mouth over here, that's going to be the second fastest. And then swallowing, it's going to be your third fastest, right? Because if you swallow, it has to go through digestion, into your stomach, intestines, your liver, and take that way.

So, If it's IV, it's going to go to the brain faster to, you have to be a little bit careful of that because methylene blue also has this other capacity that we didn't talk about. It also has these, uh, has this way of increasing some neurotransmitters in the brain, including dopamine, [00:30:00] norepinephrine, and serotonin.

And so that's actually methylene blue has been studied in depression in bipolar. It boosts your mood. It does that. But if you're taking drugs like SSRIs, for example, or

Jacqueline: Right.

Dr. Sherr: SNRIs. So like some of the newer generations, you could potentially have a, a potential complication there if you're taking IV, especially because you're gonna have that dose in the brain be very, very high, very quickly.

And the risk there is something called serotonin 

syndrome, which is extremely rare, extremely rare. Um, it's never really been reported in oral dosing of methylene blue, even if somebody is on an SSRI. But I do tell people that are interested in methylene blue, if they are taking SSRIs or SNRIs. They need to work with a practitioner so they can go very slowly with their dosing to see the benefits.

So, uh, so the route of delivery is just how fast you're going to get methylene blue in and thinking about, you know, that potential complication of those neurotransmitter release. Um, and then the other thing you have to think about is where you're getting your methylene blue from. The problem [00:31:00] with methylene blue is that it's very often contaminated.

It can be contaminated with heavy metals specifically, including lead, cadmium, mercury. And arsenic. Okay. So we don't want those Mostly, right? Um, so it's not something we want in our system. It's you have to be very careful where you're getting your methylene blue from and When we were looking to develop things in this space in the end and looking at products We, it took us about nine months longer to release our first products with methylene blue because we needed to find a good source that wasn't contaminated.

Um, because the problem is you can get nothing, but that's called the USP, which is like pharmaceutical grade USP letters mean pharmaceutical grade, but even that can be contaminated, which was crazy. And so it took us a long time to find clean stuff. And then every batch that we get, we test again to make sure.

And so if I can implore. Your listeners to do one thing, it would be to not buy supplements on Amazon. Okay, I don't care if it's [00:32:00] methylene blue or if it's vitamin C or anything in between because you just don't know what you're getting I can't tell you how many times there's been reports of even what looks like legit Supplements getting sent to people's houses and it's all counterfeit stuff.

Uh, there was a company called metagenics that had this huge warehouse full of counterfeit stuff on, uh, from Amazon that was getting fulfilled and people were just getting bunk, you know, and then, and you also don't know the other thing about supplements in general, as I know, you know, Jacqueline is like, they're not regulated, right?

So you like, there's no regulations that a supplement company has to do anything to test their stuff. And so, and Amazon doesn't check any of these things. So you really want to do. Your own research and find companies that you trust, um, and not just go online and purchase from Amazon. And just final point.

And I know you have probably have questions is that on the drops themselves, that's kind of what I was alluding to. Like a lot of the companies that make drops, um, you, they, I don't know what kind of quality control that they're doing. Um, and I certainly wouldn't purchase them on [00:33:00] Amazon. And the final thing is that drops are just so freaking messy because.

Methylene blue guys is a, it's a dye. It will dye things blue, your urine, we mentioned, but it will dye clothing. It will dye your mouth for a little while that will go away, but it will dye your counter, countertops as well. So you have to be very careful on like your countertops and your, and in your, in your sinks.

So actually I can keep talking always, but there's actually a, um, there's a, Antidote for surfaces specifically. So if you get nothing blue on a surface, you can, if you have vitamin C around buffered vitamin C, we'll get it out actually very, very quickly because it counteracts the blue itself,

Jacqueline: Wow.

Dr. Sherr: but it doesn't work in your mouth that way, but it works on surfaces.

Jacqueline: Wow. So interesting. No, I mean, I couldn't agree with more, couldn't agree more with everything you said, especially the Amazon point. I purchased my supplements from Fullscript. Um, I'm sure you're familiar with that platform, but all my favorite [00:34:00] brands are on there. Um, trust everything that's coming from there, but yeah, sadly, too many

Dr. Sherr: They have a good, yeah, yeah, they have a good process there. I know the medical directors of Fullscript well, and they have a very good vetting process overall. So I'm a fan of what they do. It does take some of the guesswork out for clinicians, especially, uh, because then you don't have to worry as much about, uh, what you're getting.

Although, you know, Fullscript doesn't carry certain types of products. It doesn't carry things with CBD. It doesn't carry things with methylene blue, for example. 

Jacqueline: Right. 

Dr. Sherr: it doesn't carry others, but it's a good resource for, 100 

Jacqueline: Yeah, no, absolutely. So one area I did want to touch on with you that I'm super interested in is stacking therapies or supplements with methylene blue, right? I mean, in the biohacking space, we hear all these things about you get extra added benefit from, you know, you know, whatever it is you choose to do by stacking things.

So, could we start with supplements, Dr. Scott, first? Like, are there any supplements, like vitamin C, um, alpha lipoic acid I've heard, like things that could enhance the [00:35:00] efficacy of the methylene blue?

Dr. Sherr: So when you're thinking about Methylene Blue as a supplement, you're thinking about what it's doing, right? You're thinking, are you looking for more energy? And are you looking for more detox capacity? Are you looking for both? And so then, then you have to supplement, or think about supplementing in in response to that.

So many of the people that I work are in the endurance world. So I give you a good example. I, there's a race out here called the Leadville race here in Colorado. It's an ultra mile, ultra marathon. It's a hundred miles. It's the hardest one in the country because you have to come to Colorado and you're going up 13 and 14, 000 feet.

Peaks and it's crazy, right? And so that's a very different race compared to like, if you're need to detox more because you're toxic and you need to work on that. Right. So like, so, but on the endurance side, we know that methylene blue can actually, at least anecdotally, we don't have a lot of research here yet, but we have a grid, really good sense that it's going to increase endurance because it can help [00:36:00] with that increased capacity to make energy for longer.

Right. Because it can act just like oxygen. So if you don't have as much oxygen around, because you've been running a hundred freaking miles, like you're a crazy person, then you're going to need additional support along the way. Right. So what are these people doing? They are, what's their basic stuff.

They're using electrolytes, right. And they're using things that increase energy capacity. And so oftentimes when I'm thinking about. Using methylene bloom. Like, what are the other things that are required to help you make and support you making energy? So your vitamins, like your B vitamins are really important.

So like your B complex, because you need all your, your B vitamins to help work your mitochondria so that you can make energy. You need a trace minerals as well. So you have like your copper, your magnesium, uh, these are really, really important. Your zinc as well to help you make energy. And so, and then I'm also thinking about, you know, how are you going to get more.

more blood flow to various tissues, right? So you can think about using things like nitric oxide as well. Um, there's some controversy on methylene blue and nitric oxide, [00:37:00] which we can talk about if you'd like in a minute. But, um, but in general, what we're really trying to do when we're trying to increase energy production is that we're trying to give all of the accoutrements, all the things that are required around energy production, With methylene blue.

So, um, oftentimes that's as simple as me giving somebody a B complex along with their methylene blue at the same time. Now, if it's more on the detox side of things, right? Like they're, they have more detox requirements. So I guess back to the Leadville guy for a minute, just because to finish that. So what we were doing with, with the Leadville guy is that, um, What I did with him is that we were, he was doing his usual things, his electrolytes, his, his vitamins.

He was also using glucose, right? Because you need sugar as well, because you need a substrate to bring into your mitochondria to make energy, right? So like these long distance runners, they need a source of glucose as well so that they can make energy. It's like, we know that most of us, I think, know that we need.

We eat because we need to make energy, right? And so especially when you eat, [00:38:00] we eat glucose or, you know, foods with carbohydrates and fat as well as our kind of main fuel burning sources. So these athletes have to have a lot of substrate. And so they have to have either glucose or fat or both oftentimes actually when they're racing.

So they do exogenous ketones. They do, they do glucose and things. So he was doing, you know, all of that. And then we added methylene blue that he was taking 32 milligrams. Um, every four hours and then he was also taking this combination of methylene blue with nicotine, caffeine and CBD, which is another one that we've, that we've created.

He was taking that every four hours and he finished his race. He had done it the previous year and this year he came in. His time was three hours less. So he came in three hours earlier. So doing that. Yeah. And that's all the main thing we did differently was add methylene blue to his stack. Okay. So he was stacking.

And so this doesn't have to be just for people that are doing like long term, long term endurance racing, but like, if you're thinking [00:39:00] about it, you are working at looking at ways that you can increase the capacity to make energy and have methylene blue. work better as a result of that. Okay. Um, and then you have on the other side, if you have more on the detox side of things, and then you're going to want to support the system that you can have the capacity to make more antioxidants as well.

So bringing in antioxidants can be very, very helpful. Um, especially if using higher doses of methylene blue. Because higher doses are going to potentially deplete antioxidants. And so you want to give those higher doses of antioxidants when you're giving these higher doses of methylene blue for more of like a antioxidant capacity overall.

So from a stacking perspective, um, that's kind of my main framework as I think about it from a supplement. Work way, of course, there's other technologies and things as well

Jacqueline: Right. Well, first of all, I want to touch on the nitric oxide controversy. What is, what is, that all about?

Dr. Sherr: so the quick and dirty on nitric oxide is that nitric oxide is a really important molecule in our body That helps with vasodilation. It dilates blood vessels So that we can get more blood flow to various areas. [00:40:00] And so nitric oxide is really important. It's made endogenously, so like usually made in our body in the vascular walls in the walls of our of our And it's also made in our mitochondria as well to help The mitochondria signal the blood vessels to bring more blood flow to the area.

Okay. We also make nitric oxide though, when we have severe trauma stress infection, but it's a different type of nitric oxide. It's a nitric oxide that gets released into our, our vascular system kind of in the lumens itself and not on the vessel walls. And it causes dilation, but it also causes inflammation, it also causes pain, and so we have a lot of people that are walking around with chronic inflammation, chronic pains, if you have fibromyalgia, long COVID, you have mold or post mold kinds of symptoms, you often have a lot of this It's called inducible nitric oxide synthase, which is the induce, which is the enzyme that makes nitric oxide in the, in the system itself, causing low blood pressures, causing pain, causing inflammation.

So methylene blue can actually [00:41:00] neutralize that kind of nitric oxide. Okay. And so we've had people with like, positional hypotension, tachycardia, like your heart rate goes up if you, if you stand up, that kind of thing. They do really well with really low doses of methylene blue is it binds and prevents that inducible nitric oxide synthase, that one that's in like in the system that shouldn't be there from being there.

But the other type of nitric oxide, the one that's in the blood vessels in the mitochondria, that one. Is not affected by methylene blue in a detrimental way. In fact, it's actually a positive, but there's sometimes those two things get mixed up because there are people forget there's two different places, two major places where the nitric oxide is being released overall.

So in essence. If you have a chronic inflammatory condition, the ones I mentioned, like your fibromyalgias, you have chronic viral infection, like an EBV, you have chronic, you know, Lyme disease or co infections, long COVID symptoms, or you're mold or even post [00:42:00] infectious, but still feeling crappy. Oftentimes it's a mitochondrial disorder issue.

And then it's oftentimes as well a nitric oxide issue too. So if you can bind that nitric oxide, uh, you can see significant Fantastic benefits overall, as a result of that piece, along with supporting mitochondrial function at the same time. So that 

Jacqueline: Wow. 

Dr. Sherr: way to answer that, but I was trying to be as complete as I

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that's, that's super, super interesting. So we touched on, um, Supplements to stack with. What about therapies? And I've heard, for example, that when red light therapy, um, is combined with methylene blue, I think it resulted in like a 30 percent increase in ATP production. Is that is that true?

Dr. Sherr: Yeah, yeah, you got it. So there's a good study that was done at the University of Texas in Austin, and there is a researcher down there. His name is Dr. Francisco Gonzalez Lima, and he did the study where he looked at methylene blue plus near infrared light. So this is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Light at 680 nanometers.

It's in the red spectrum. And [00:43:00] it, uh, the combination had a dramatic improvement in mitochondrial functions specifically in the ATP production, as you just described. And that's because photonic light energy is also energy. We also, so, I mean, I don't know about you, Jacqueline, when I first like heard about lights, I'm like, it's just a light.

What do you mean? It's a light. I mean, it's not gonna make me do anything. It's like, and so like, it's kind of crazy to think that you can stand in front of a red light panel or you If you don't have that, just go out in the sun and you get this spectrum of light and it's energizing you. I mean, everybody kind of knows this intuitively.

Like if you go out in the sun, like you feel energized. And if you take methylene blue in combination, it can be a crazy amount of energy. So much that you don't know what to do with sometimes. Actually, this is what happened to me just a couple of weeks ago. I was, I was in LA, I was recording and I went out for a walk with my colleague, our friend of mine that was recording with me afterwards.

And I had the blue on board. And I was like, Oh my God, I have so much energy, but I just, but it was too hot to do anymore because, but, uh, so I was like sitting in [00:44:00] a cab going, I need to like, I need to go do some pushups or something. So I gotta, I gotta get rid of all this energy. It's amazing. So it can be fantastic, that combination.

And so, yeah, typically you take your methylene blue and wait about it, depending on how you take it. If you take it as a, like a trochee, maybe in 15 to 30 minutes, if you swallow it, 60 minutes, 45 to 60 minutes, and then you go out in the sun or you go, On in front of your near infrared light panel, and then you can get that, that combination 

of, 

Jacqueline: interesting. 

Dr. Sherr: together.

Yeah. Yeah. 

That's the biggest, you know, that's the biggest combination.

Jacqueline: No, I was just going to say, I'm just thinking of like kindergarten and like the color spectrum, but is that because like methylene reflects blue and absorbs red, that it's so effective when combined with red light?

Dr. Sherr: Well, you know, that's a good question. I don't know exactly if it's, if it's a color, a color absorption thing, but you, you, you actually bring in a very interesting point, which is that. Methylene blue is blue, right? And there is something about the blue color itself as it's working in the mitochondria [00:45:00] and it very well could be related to the mitochondria itself.

Make light as well. And, uh, I don't know the spectrum that they make off the top of my head, but there, this is, this is kind of like very nuanced and very, very interesting. Uh, very new kinds of things as to understand like what the actual color itself is doing, but they're very well could be an interaction with the red light itself as the photonic coloring of the light itself.

It's, it's, it's a really good question 

Jacqueline: Yeah. Super, super interesting. One other quick question that came to mind. Um, the, I mean, again, there's so many applications of it, but in terms of addressing like chronic infections, I mean, certainly it increases ATP production for our mitochondria, which is helpful, right? For someone who has a chronic infection and has constant inflammation.

Is there another mechanism where it like actually kills like the bacteria? And is that like a 

dual, like, how does that work?

Dr. Sherr: Yeah. Thank you for making that clear because at these higher doses, what methylene blue is actually, so I mentioned how methylene blue can actually increase. Well, increase your need for antioxidants, right? And, and the [00:46:00] reason for that is that what happens is that these higher doses, what methylene blue does is create something in the body called hydrogen peroxide.

And everybody's heard of hydrogen peroxide as an antiseptic, it's a cleaner, but our cells use this Every moment of every day to clear things out, to kill things, to, to not only kill pathogens, but also, also kind of to kill cells that we don't need our normal cells because our human cells are always being turned over as we know.

And so what methane blue does is that increases the production of hydrogen peroxide. And so hydrogen peroxide kills viruses, fungus and bacteria directly. And the cool thing about this is that. Most antibiotics stop working over time because bacteria, fungus, and virus become resistant to them. But there's never been any resistant patterns that have been described for methylene blue because it's not working on the bugs in a way that could cause resistance because it's increasing hydrogen peroxide.

So some [00:47:00] bugs have a higher slight Um, sensitivity to hydrogen peroxide or not, but they're still sensitive to hydrogen peroxide. And so that's why it's like, it's some of the things like malaria that we talked about in the beginning. Malaria, the drugs that we use, so many of them now are resistant and you can't use them for malaria anymore.

So Methylene Blue is coming back. As a drug for malaria, because it still doesn't have any resistant patterns compared. So the mechanism is different. There's the mitochondrial mechanisms, enhancing mitochondrial function, energy production, compensating for any areas on the mitochondria that aren't working very well.

And then detoxification directly acting as a detoxifier. Like it can be an antioxidant itself. Okay. But at these higher doses, what it does is has, it has those functions, but In addition, it creates this hydrogen peroxide and that kills bugs directly. And at the same time as killing bugs directly, it's also stimulating the body to produce your [00:48:00] own natural antioxidants, specifically glutathione that we were talking about before.

So that's the anti infective mechanism.

Jacqueline: So interesting. Yeah. When you mentioned hydrogen peroxide, my mind jumped to high dose IVC, which has a similar uh, impact. That's, that's something my mom's been doing for the past few years, uh, specifically for cancer. And with that too, uh, Dr. Scott, I mean, have you had patients with like later stage advanced cancers use methylene blue and, and have, you you know, positive impact, right?

Dr. Sherr: there aren't that many great studies yet. There are a couple of studies in breast cancer, actually, specifically where they've used, uh, blue with what we call photodynamic therapy, which is basically red light. Um, the cool thing about that though, is that, um, we were talked about how there, there is synergy, right?

The synergy between methylene blue and red light causing increased energy production, this is at low doses of methylene blue at higher doses. Methylene blue can actually make. More this hydrogen peroxide, more [00:49:00] oxidative as well. It's something called singlet oxygen species and creating more stress on tumors.

And so there's been some studies looking at methylene blue, high doses of methylene blue, like around three milligrams a kilogram, which is on the higher side, along with this photodynamic therapy and with this near infrared light, again, in combination to create more stress on the system to create, just like you did with the IV vitamin C, more stress on tumor, for example.

So that's what we're seeing is that. That's been been studied a little bit. Now, the combination of this higher dose, methylene blue, along with photodynamic therapy, uh, for cancer treatment, but in general, the way I typically use methylene blue in cancer therapy at this way, this, at this point is mostly for mitochondrial rescue.

So in the people that are getting the chemotherapy, especially, and then radiation, chemotherapy is a toxin as we all know, and then chemotherapy is going to be destroying, uh, normal cells as well. And also, oftentimes this is going to be a mitochondrial stress. So you can use methylene blue as a way to kind of support the mitochondria as, um, [00:50:00] somebody's going through chemotherapy and radiation.

Jacqueline: Very interesting. And lastly, I mean, we spoke about dosing, right? And certainly there are some drawbacks with extreme doses, but other than that, I mean, are there any other side effects that aren't quite so, so great that people should be aware of when taking methylene blue?

Dr. Sherr: So if you're pregnant or breastfeeding, you shouldn't take methylene blue because it's, it's, it's technically contraindicated in those particular scenarios. Um, the other thing we mentioned is that you really want to try to titrate the dose as much as possible. So not starting off at 50 or a hundred milligrams, it's usually going to be too much unless you have an acute issue.

Okay. If you have an acute Problem like an acute infection acute trauma ischemia. Like I have all of my patients have higher dose Methylene blue in their medicine cabinet at the ready in case any of those things kind of happen And a good example would be like my mom who had a tick bite maybe two months ago now and Like lots of localized swelling.

And so I gave her 150 milligrams of methylene blue times one dose. That's two milligrams a kilogram. And [00:51:00] then I gave her 50 milligrams a day for five days. Now she took antibiotics instead because she lives as well as, excuse me, as well because she lives in New York and you know, there's lots of Lyme bugs there as well, but she felt fantastic.

And she tolerated this high dose. I was worried because I gave her like 150 milligrams at Five o'clock at night, and I typically wouldn't do that to somebody when they first started because it could be energizing and I didn't know if she would sleep, but these higher doses can be tolerated if you have an acute issue, but in general, if you're starting, if you have more of a chronic thing going on, then you want to start off with these lower doses because you have kind of these detox symptoms that are possible.

Um, a little bit of GI distress can be how it can happen. A little bit of headache is possible to typically goes away as you kind of titrate the dose. Um, if. As you're, you know, if you do have high blood pressure, it's something to be aware of too because methamphetamine does increase those neurotransmitters, the norepinephrine, the dopamine, and serotonin.

So if you have high blood pressure already, you're taking medication, sometimes it can raise the blood pressure a little bit. So you want to be careful there as [00:52:00] well. Um, if you have a, a blood disorder called G6PD deficiency, which is Something that you would know with your mom, with the IV vitamin C, if you're taking high doses of methylene blue over about 50 milligrams or so, I do recommend getting a G6 PD test.

Just, just ensure that you don't have any issues with too much stress on your red blood cells. It would be rare. Um, it would be rare to be an issue if it's not being done IV, but still something you might want to get checked out. Um, but overall it's like the safety record for methylene blue. If it's clean, right?

If it's, if it's from a good source, um, a reputable source is very, very good. It's been around for over 120 years now. And we know that it's extremely safe across multiple layers of dosing, even to these higher doses for short periods of time. So, but the key always is to, you know, to think about the other, the other medications you're taking and look for interactions.

There's, there are some with methylene blue. It's not very common, but the, the main ones, again, I mentioned would be the SSRIs and the, uh, the SNRIs, which are the, uh, different, you know, [00:53:00] class of antidepressants.

Jacqueline: Gotcha. Yeah. Super interesting. It's so funny. I was like, we're not gonna have, yeah, we could talk Dr. Scott for another hour or two on this, but I think we covered the basics. Um, this is definitely a great start. We'll definitely have to have a follow up episode to this. But I do want to be conscious of your time.

So with that, where can listeners find you and also learn more about transcriptions and all of the innovative, uh, research you guys are doing there?

Dr. Sherr: Well, thank you for having me, Jacqueline. I know it's a lot. To go through, but I mean, just to kind of give a quick summary, I think to help everybody let's wrap it up is that, you know, methylene blue has been around a long time. It's got a great safety record. The key is to start off low and go slow with your dosing, unless you have an acute issue than a higher dose, 50, 75, a hundred, maybe the right dose for you, or maybe you're not up to two milligrams, a kilogram.

But if that's the case, I do recommend working with a practitioner to, to kind of work on that side of things, slowly working on your dose. Tie trading over time, energy and resilience. So if you need more energy, it can help you. If you need more resilience, it can help you. [00:54:00] Um, and it's a matter of knowing that most of us need some of these things more of the time than others these days.

So if you're traveling, if you're stressed, if you're going through a lot of chronic inflammation, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, like autoimmune problems, infection, or getting over infection, like think about Methylene Blue as a way to help you right now while you're on that longer path overall.

That's what I would say. And so Not a magic bullet. And that's what it's also important to say, right. Is that it's about bringing it in so that you're doing, that you can have more capacity to do the things that can help over the longterm to like changing your diet, your lifestyle, your relationships, your stress, all those things that are really, really important.

Um, and so you can find me, uh, you can find me on Instagram. It's probably the easiest place at Dr. Scott Sherr, D R S C O T T S H E R R. So we've been talking about Methylene Blue a lot. And so we have a company called Troscriptions. Um, it's the word trochee and the word prescriptions mashed together.

Trochee is like a dissolvable lozenge. And so troscriptions. com add troscriptions [00:55:00] and it's, uh, it's a great delivery device overall. Our dosage because it can go up here and dissolve, but you can also swallow them too, especially the ones that have methylene blue in them, because I think it was a very blue pigment that we talked about before.

So you may just want to swallow that and that's completely okay. Um, if you're a practitioner, we also have a higher strength, nothing blue on the market called tro plus blue. And that's something that, you know, you can potentially get for your office and get to your patients, which is what I give all my patients and have them in their medicine cabinet in case there's a, an emergency and that kind of thing.

So, um, so you can find us those places as well.

Jacqueline: Awesome. I will include the links to all of those in the show notes. And my last question for you, Dr. Scott, this is my favorite one to ask, and that is what does being well and strong mean to you?

Dr. Sherr: So, What comes to mind first is that it's resiliency, right? Um, because all of us are going to be subject to things that we don't anticipate every single day of our life. So are we mentally and we physically resilient. So creating a good mindset or a [00:56:00] strong one that has a good grounding, that's, you know, that's where meditation and mindfulness and those kinds of practices can be very, very helpful.

So that when your kids are screaming all around you, you like they are with me all the time. I can imagine that I'm in the eye of the hurricane. Come collected and everything else is just happening around me. It's all good. It's just happening, right? So that's a big resilience. And then physical resilience of course is really important so that we have the ability to, to get up and move and do things that we want to do.

Um, and also if we, you know, we do get beat up every once in a while by going various places and going and do various things that we can rebuild and regenerate and get back to what we like to do fast. So resilience would be, I think the main one overall,

Jacqueline: I love that. Beautiful. Well, Dr. Scott, this has been so much fun. I look forward to having you back on. I know I'm gonna, I think it's what, two weeks from now we're talking about hyperbaric oxygen. So another fun conversation, but, uh, super excited to share this with listeners and thank you so much for your time.

Dr. Sherr: me.


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Jacqueline Genova

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