The View from Gen Z Part I

In the first of our 2 part series on Gen Z, we talk with Nate Hillyer, Kelsey Klaczyk, and Shen Gao, three young professionals about their values, their thoughts on the future of work, and the role their careers play in their plans for the future.

Transcript

The View from Gen Z Part I

[00:00:00] 

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: Hey there, beautiful people. Welcome to NOVL Takes, the podcast where we lift the veil on business as usual. Join us for our novel takes on business culture and the art of getting things done. I'm partner and principal Rachel Gans-Boriskin.

Sarah Patrick: And I'm founder and principal Sarah Patrick. It's time for a new NOVL Take. 

This fall, we're focusing on the shifting nature of work. The culture and structure of work is changing while many in the silent generation and baby movers are retiring, their presence and legacy is still very much felt in corporate America, and for that matter, society writ large. The pandemic and those "unprecedented times" that ushered in accelerated many employment trends that were already underway.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: The pandemic taught us that work can be done remotely. And many of us appreciated the flexibility that this new schedule provided.[00:01:00] Freed from long commutes, we had a chance to pause and reassess where work fits into our lives. As older workers retired due to COVID. The pandemic accelerated the demographic changes of the workplace. 

Sarah Patrick: Just as millennials and members of Gen X reached points of authority in their careers where they could make some changes, Gen Z began to enter the workforce with their own ideas about how the world of work should be organized.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: In our last episode, we heard from members of four generations about their experiences with work and tried to bridge the generational divide. Our conversation was thought provoking and showed both similarities and differences between the generations. If you missed it, you should definitely check it out.

Sarah is a millennial and I'm a Gen Xer. So we are both pretty familiar with, not only those generations, but the larger cultural discourse surrounding them. And while there have been endless think pieces over the years about boomers and millennials and even the occasional [00:02:00] piece on Gen Xers in the workplace, there haven't been as many about Gen Z for the simple reason that they're really just entering the workforce now.

Sarah Patrick: Rather than opine about what we think is important to them, we thought it might be a good idea to ask them. We spoke to three thoughtful young professionals to hear their perspectives. Although we recorded the interview separately, we have brought our guests into virtual conversation with each other.

Today is the first of two episodes exploring the thoughts and experiences of this new generation of professionals. In this first episode, our guests will be talking about their career paths, their approach to work, their values. And how they see work fitting into their lives now and in the future. 

 But first I'll let our guests introduce themselves.

Nate Hillyer: My name is Nate Hillyer

Kelsey Klaczyk: My name is Kelsey Klaczyk

Shen Gao: My name is Shen Gao 

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: Nate, Kelsey and Shen are recent college graduates and are just starting in their careers. Full disclosure, the three of them are also former students of mine. 

 Nate [00:03:00] currently works in PR.

Nate Hillyer: I'm an assistant account executive at the Castle Group. Um, and I'm really lucky to get my hands on a lot of different kinds of media. Um, so I. My job is kind of half PR, half social media. Um. So I get to really split my time between a lot of earned media, own media, um, touch a lot of different aspects of, of comms in general.

Sarah Patrick: Kelsey who works in higher education, juggles a couple roles. 

Kelsey Klaczyk: I'm a jack of all trades. Uh. But full-time, I work as a financial aid counselor at Northeastern University. I work with our College of Professional Studies students. I'm also a part-time student at Northeastern, uh, within the Master of Professional Studies in digital media And then on the side I moonlight with creative consulting and design work, whether it be in print, web, social media, et cetera. Just anything design. I,  I love it.

Sarah Patrick: Shen's Path has been a little different. 

Shen Gao: Right now I'm taking, uh, a bit of a career break. I used to work in the technology sector as a product manager, um, working on various digital products such as [00:04:00] websites, mobile apps, and things like that.

 Right now I'm mostly focusing on, you know, taking care of, The the household. So my partner, my dog, um, and kind of doing more of the household chores. Um. And then on the side, when I do have time, I'm trying to start my own small business.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: When Nate graduated from Emanuel College, he knew generally the field in which he wanted to work.

Nate Hillyer: I think I always knew I wanted to do some sort of comms. Um, but, and to this day, I don't think I've entirely narrowed that down, hence why I am at an agency, um, um, and particularly in a agency role where I get to do two different kinds of things. Um, I think that in my internship experience, I was getting a lot of, a lot of different types of experience, um, between editorial writing and, um, everything from editorial writing to social media, marketing, analytics, all sorts of things.

Um, and I think I had one towards the end of my college experience. I had my third unpaid internship. and it was this lovely, one woman marketing agency. Um, and that's where I really found my passion, that I was able to do something [00:05:00] different every day. Like I was designing a, I was helping with website design one day, and then I was doing PR the next.

So, um, I think that's kind of  what drew me to, to where I am now. Just being able to get my hands on as many different things as I could.

Sarah Patrick: While Nate pursued a career in the field he studied Kelsey, who had been a communications major in college, felt more limited in her options.

Kelsey Klaczyk: I graduated from Simmons in 2019. Um, and I kind of, uh, took on the role as a student worker within financial aid, uh, very early on in my freshman year at Simmons. As Rachel can attest, I took on quite a few roles, uh, during my time at Simmons.

 But, um, when it came time to graduate, both my parents, um, had left the state at that point. Um. So I was kind of like, you know, if I'm gonna stay in Boston, I wanna find a career that I know has, uh, staying power that, you know, I'm not gonna be worried about job security, that I know I'll have a steady income that will be able to pay for my everyday needs.

Um, you know, I wasn't necessarily in a position I'm sure I could have been in a position, um, where I could have taken on a more creative role- something that was more fitting to the work I had been doing. Um, but, you know, I, I [00:06:00] was definitely in a place financially where I wanted to make sure that I was making smart decisions.

Um. And also, you know, working in higher education has its benefits as you continue working. So it wasn't necessarily that I was losing out, it was just that I was making a smarter, smarter, long-term decision for me to start off in higher education.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: When we sat down to talk to Shen, I was a little surprised to hear that she was taking some time off. As a student, Shen had been conscientious and deeply focused on her work. When we'd been in touch in the first year after her graduation, she was working at a tech startup on the West coast. So I was especially interested in what had brought her to where she is today.

Shen Gao: When I first graduated college, I think I was not sure, you know, what I wanted to do and kind of just wanted to find a company that'd take me, um, and kind of, you know, hopefully grow from there. And so, you know, I kind of jumped from one job to another, just kind of trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Um, I went [00:07:00] from being a graphic designer to a UX designer to then a product manager. 

Sarah Patrick: Shen struggled with the culture of Silicon Valley. 

Shen Gao: I think so many people here work in tech, I feel like it's like overwhelming.

T here's like a hustle culture. It's like always working hard, but like working long hours as well. . And I feel like, you know. Maybe in the East Coast, you know, there's more of a, like less of a tech presence there where there's more of diverse types of jobs where maybe people are still being held to that kind of crazy standard.

But I think in the tech industry especially, it's pretty, it's pretty common. 

You know, you meet someone at a party or whatever, it's like, what do you do? Oh, I work in tech. I'm a, I'm an engineer, I'm a designer. You know, there's a lot of companies around here that are really young .

And what they expect of you is like, Well, if you're not working till 12:00 AM are they, are you really trying to make this happen? Are you really part of this? So I think in some companies that belief is like super ingrained where you have to work every second that you're free. 

Sarah Patrick: Eventually, Shen decided it was just too much.[00:08:00] 

Shen Gao: I was really burnt out. I was burnt out. There was so much to do. I never felt like I was on top of anything.

And so the way, so when I had that job, you know, I was working from like 8:00 AM to like 6:00 PM nonstop, barely fit in lunch.

And then after work, I'd have no energy to do anything else. And on the weekends I would have no energy to do anything. 

And um, I was just super stressed out. So, you know. So I decided to just quit. You know. There were a few different factors that was really just straining my mental health and I wanted to take some time to just breathe and focus on my mental and physical health. And so kind of looking back, I was at that job for maybe a year and a half I would say. And looking back, I was just like, how did I live like that? You know? It's not a way that I wanna live again.

Sarah Patrick: In a completely different industry, Kelsey was also struggling with a lack of balance. 

Kelsey Klaczyk: When I first got out of college, I ended up in positions that expected a lot from me that you know, that. We didn't necessarily have the resources for enough staff members.

We [00:09:00] didn't have resources for, you know, enough time management. There was a lot of responsibilities that I held on my plate that, you know, especially as somebody who had just gotten out of college, somebody who was new to the working world, I didn't recognize, should not have necessarily been on all on my plate.

And so I was working long, long days. I was you know, working weekends. I was doing all I could- especially because my work isn't just behind the scenes. It is working with real people who have real issues and real concerns. It is with money you know? So there is that extra responsibility of knowing that you know, I'm not reporting to just you know, a faceless person behind a desk. You know. So having that responsibility all on me was, was a lot.

It was a lot of responsibility and you know, like I said, I'm a hard worker. I pride myself in that so I could do it. But I realized after taking kind of a new role and you know, growing as you know, [00:10:00] within my career, that work-life balance is extremely important because you can keep working and working and working and working and working.

But your body is always going to have a limit whether you want it to or not. And if you don't take the time to take care of yourself, your body is gonna choose that limit for you, and it's often gonna be at a time that you don't want it to happen. You know? And I'm, of course, I mean that in that like, you'll get really sick, you'll catch a horrible cold, or you know, you'll be like me and won't be able to do anything creative for three years.

It, it, you know, has very different results. But you know, you won't be able to choose when you have to stop. And that's the hardest thing about not having a work-life balance. And so that's something like, I've definitely tried to prioritize a lot more, um, once I kind of recognize that maybe I wasn't supporting myself as, as good as I should be, or, or holding as, um, hard of boundaries with myself [00:11:00] and my work life.

Um, and so, you know, that's where making time for yourself and making sure that you're. Making, making sure to make su self-care priority really comes into play of, you know, developing times that are just for you. Like, like I talked about earlier with, you know, yoga practices. You know, having a time in the morning if.

You know, you're the only one up where you get to make your morning coffee and it's nice and peaceful and quiet, and you have those moments just for you. You need to build that time in your day, and you need to build time to make sure that you're feeding your body and feeding your mind, and that you're not just working because you feel you should be, or you feel that other people are expecting it of you.

You know it's okay to take a break, and if you don't, your body will take one for you.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: Nate had a similar experience. 

Nate Hillyer: I think that um it's tough right now. I, I think people are, are really tired. Um. And I think it's hard to stay creative for a very long time. Um, . I've only been in the corporate professional workforce for about two years now. Um, and I've even heard, I've seen it firsthand, but I've, I've heard it as well that things are just more and more fast paced. Lots of quicker turnarounds, things like that. So that really lends itself to people are just tired.

Um, so I mean, I'm really lucky to have, um, a version of Summer Fridays that we call all Season Fridays. So it's every other Friday. Um, you get it off, of course covering, um, any pressing things. But if you set yourself up right, you get to take it off and it's just, [00:12:00] it's a nice, nice way to kind of regain that kind of autonomy over your life at the end of a week, uh, you know, banging out things you wouldn't usually be able to like it it's a nice time to finally get to even things like laundry and taking care of myself and taking care of my apartment. And, um, I, I think it's just been super instrumental in keeping me grounded throughout the week, throughout the previous week and the week after. Um, I think having time to recharge is, is really something that I'm, I'm really grateful for.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: Shen isn't looking for a job right now, but she's clear that if she decides to go back to work full-time, things will need to be different.

Shen Gao: So if I was to kind of find a full-time job, so to speak, I'll probably have really rigid boundaries for myself. You know. No meetings after five or like I'm only on the computer starting at nine, or whatever that is. And you know, no emails, no, you know, no, no work stuff after work hours around the weekends.

Um, I think that's probably a boundary I would set for myself. But also, You know, I think , maybe not every work, or maybe not every company will allow it. that kind of boundary it. You know. People may be [00:13:00] like well we need to meet at 8:30 cuz nobody else has any time before 9. You know, that kind of thing.

That's like, well So how am I gonna take care of myself outside of work then? I think that, you know, it would have to be a company where they're really cognizant of. that people have lives outside of work and that they, um, will be willing to have to let people make their own boundaries and choices of, you know, where that kind of line between work and life is.

 Hopefully there's, uh, Kind of work life balance that can be incorporated into the job. Um, and also hopefully somewhere where I get you know, good benefits.

You know, I wanna travel and I want to spend time with um, you know, my partner, my friends, and then also visit my family who are in China. So, um, I think those are probably some of the main things that I would look for um, and also things like You know, having mentorship and space to grow and um, working with folks who are like-minded, who want to you know, really do good work.

And, um, I, I would say those are probably some of the top areas that I, that I would consider. 

Sarah Patrick: As Shen reconsiders her relationship to work, she's also rethinking how the work itself is connected to the world. 

Shen Gao: What kind of work do I want to [00:14:00] work on? And so the last couple roles that I had, um, one of them was in immigration and criminal justice advocacy. So I thought that space was really interesting. You know,  I wanted to learn more. I wanted to kind of contribute.

And then, you know, my next job was in also social impact. But because we're an agency, we kind of work on a ton of you know, different projects, um, depending on what, what, you know, what our clients have in mind. And you know, in that job we covered things like, um, you know, affordable housing and, and health and access to information and things like that.

And, you know, if I was to have a full-time job again, I definitely wanna work on something um, that would be meaningful, that would really improve the lives of folks, especially people who may be underprivileged or underserved. Um. Yeah, so I like, I definitely wanna work on something like that versus things like, I don't know, crypto or, or something that I don't feel like is contributing to, to humanity.

Sarah Patrick: For Nate, the values and [00:15:00] mission of his workplace matter. 

Nate Hillyer: I think something that I'm really drawn to is mission-driven work. Um, so I, I'm lucky to work with, um, some really great nonprofits and, um, kind of equity oriented, uh, organizations and coalitions. 

 I think I also was really drawn to a woman run agency.

Um, it, I, I work with incredible people um, who do a lot of incredible work, um, around Boston, beyond Boston. Um, and I, I think that's something that I, I was really looking for. I think what stood out to me was my company's, um, Mission statement or diversity equity inclusion statement. It felt very authentic.

Um, which I think can be hard to do coming from any sort of company, any type of business. Um, but I felt, I felt like it was a good fit from moment one.

Sarah Patrick: Nate also notes the ways the values of an organization can affect the work you do. 

Nate Hillyer: 

It's hard to do work that you don't feel passionate about. I mean. That's also, I, I was just chatting with, um, actually a college student that I, I was just kind of helping to mentor. Um, and I was just telling her it's part of good writing is being able to write about something you don't care about.

But I think that's different than something that just really doesn't align with who you are, um, and what you really care about. Um, so I think again, like I'm, I'm able to work with these really equitable mission driven [00:16:00] organizations and it makes it easier. My work quality is better. Um, when, when, when you're aligned with what matters to you.

Uh, it's, it's just the ideal kind of work scenario in terms of productivity, in terms of quality of life. In terms of, um, I dunno. It's, it's, it's just kind of an overarching way to wrap the reading up, but

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: When we asked Kelsey about how her values factor into her work, she noted a difference between the values of an organization and the values she brings to her work within it. 

Kelsey Klaczyk: I definitely factor in my values. I don't think that it would be possible for me not to, um, knowing, knowing myself as a person. Um, I think that especially in the industry I'm in, and I can't speak to, to other industries necessarily, but in higher education and especially in financial services, it is, it's hard not to get jaded.

So I think that that's a really big thing. Um, in terms of values that I really focus on heavily in terms of my career. Um, especially, like I said, working, working with. Students and working with real [00:17:00] people who have real life issues that, you know, it's my job to help them resolve. Um, it's very hard not to you know, only see outside of yourself and see like, oh, well this student is sending me this, all these angry emails, they're being rude to me. You know, screw them. When in reality, you know. It's easier to just go off of that idea and create this, you know, scenario in your head of exactly what's happening on their end.

But if you just pause, You know, and take a look at everything I, I'd be able to say, okay, well, they're having a financial struggle. Financial struggles are gonna send anybody into a panic. While they're not being the kindest to me right now, it's cuz they're scared, not because they, it's anything personal against me.

So, you know, that's, that's something value-wise that I try to bring in every day of taking that moment to stop and like look at the fuller picture and try and see humans for humans. Um, And not just the problems that they bring and add to my life. And I think that [00:18:00] that's something that in higher education, we need a lot more of.

Um, and I say that knowing that, you know, We are overworked a lot of the time. We are understaffed a lot of the time. It is always going to be a topic that is harder to discuss with people that isn't, you know, an easy topic by any means. Um, so like, you know, there's always going to be tension, but if we go into any industry really with more compassion and understanding for other humans, things can only get better if everybody has that mindset and that mentality of like, you know, we're just working with other human beings and you know, of course there are gonna be those human beings out there that are out for destruction and are out to watch the world burn.

But if a majority of us can come in with compassion and understanding for each other, Even in those moments where we are frustrated and we are at our worst, then things could get better. And that's kind of where I try and go into [00:19:00] any part of my career, is like trying to go in with that compassion and understanding and trying to see the other sides of situations and things before I react.

I try and pull back and make sure like, okay, what's the full picture here and what. Isn't being said, what, what do I, what do I need to read between the lines? Um, so I think that that's a big value that I bring in.

Um, and I think that like, while that's kind of just one, one value, I, in a way, I feel like it's a thing that's missing in general from a lot of, a lot of industries right now. Um, everybody's very focused on themselves. Um, and of course that makes sense again, with, with where we've been. Of course people are gonna need to focus on themselves, um, to an extent.

So it's understandable. It's just a, a daily practice of trying to put yourself in other people's shoes again.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: In some ways, it's not surprising that Kelsey finds ways to suffuse her work with her values. Work has been woven into the fabric of her [00:20:00] life, of her DNA. 

Kelsey Klaczyk: I would say that for me, work has always been a big part of my life. Um, my, my dad's a workaholic, so I grew up seeing how important work was and how beneficial work could be in your life. You know, not, not to say that you should, you know, waste your life away for a company or anything like that, but you know, I saw how my dad found organization. Uh, Time management skills. He found purpose in his work. And he still does. He still workaholic. He'll be a workaholic till the day he dies. And, you know, I learned those skills from him. And also my mother.  I can't, you know, throw her out.  She also taught me a lot of important skills as well. But I've always been been know, a hard worker.

Um, and so that's always been a very, True characteristic of mine is that I always want to put my best foot forward, but. Larger for me is I want to continue to learn. And that's what career my, my larger career goals are. Is to continue to learn. Whether that be through, you know, developing a career in video game design.

Or whether that be staying in higher education and just continuing to better it for the generations that come through higher education. You know, both goals are are great goals and they both lead for opportunities to continue to learn and grow myself and to continue to help others learn and grow as well.

And I think that that's really my main goal.

Sarah Patrick: Even as work is central to Kelsey's identity and plans, she struggles with balancing work and the other things she wants in her life.[00:21:00] 

Kelsey Klaczyk: Where I will say I personally have struggled, and I think that maybe other people, other women especially, um, that are career driven might struggle is, you know, knowing where a family plays in um, with my career goals and feeling like you as a feminist, maybe I'm not choosing the right things or if I'm not focusing all my time towards my career, that that's wrong. That you know, I'm not going to move forward in my career because I'm taking the time to further other relationships, you know, further bene further discussions with family members, you know, other, other things in life that are also important.

So, you know, it is. It is an ever, ever continuous juggling act for sure though. 

Sarah Patrick: Nate is also trying to figure out where work fits into his life goals. 

Nate Hillyer: I think with a career I, it, it's something I want to be supplemental to the rest of my life. Um, I, I think we've kind of come to this collective point of, of it kind of can't be your only thing you have going [00:22:00] on. But at the same time, you really do want it to be a fulfilling part of your life where you're seeing growth and personal growth and, um, professional growth.

 It changes day to day for me, truthfully. At the same time, I am really someone who is career oriented and career motivated. So it's kind of trying to, trying to see where it fits in um, to the, the greater picture of things.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: Certainly for Shen who hit pause on her career, these are things she's been thinking about a lot. 

Shen Gao: I think there's the values of like, you know, what kind of life do you want to live? And this is a topic that comes up so many times, you know, in, in, in therapy. Um, Of like, what kind of life do you wanna live? And for me it's like, I don't wanna live the life where I spend 90% of my energy at work.

And so, you know, my values in terms of like keeping myself well. How do I be well? Um, and really focusing my physical health, my mental health, and doing the things that I like and having the energy to do that. Um, you know, I think would, you know, those things would be really great if, you know, if I can find them in a next job, if I was to [00:23:00] find a job.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: As we listen to our guests speak. I was struck by the similarities between what they were saying and the kinds of things we've heard from previous guests, and yet even as they raised these familiar themes, there was something a little different about how they spoke about them. A distinctly Gen Z approach.

It was clear that the pandemic, which interrupted their lives and education at a pivotal developmental moment, affected them deeply. It made them reevaluate their priorities and it also taught them that change is possible. Now, not only are they looking for change, they're impatient for it.

Sarah Patrick: For me, I was struck by how much humanity factors into their decision making with regard to work, whether it's recognizing the value their work has for humanity, the humanity of those with whom they work, or honoring their own humanity as they determine the appropriate work life balance. 

We will pick up this [00:24:00] conversation on our next episode and hear from our guests about the way the pandemic affected their careers, their thoughts on capitalism, and how they see their generation shaping the future of work.

Rachel Gans-Boriskin: We wanna thank Nate Hillyer, Kelsey Klaczyk and Shen Gao, who were generous with their time and insights. To learn more about them, you can check out their full bios on our website, thinknovl.com. If this conversation has piqued your interest and you wanna hear more about what we have to say, stay tuned for other episodes.

If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, please rate and review us. Give us some love.

Sarah Patrick: If you're curious about what we do over at Novel or think we could help you or your organization, check us out or send us an inquiry over at thinknovl.com. That's T H I N K N O V L.com. That's it for us. Shout out to everyone who helped us make this show.

This is NOVL Takes.

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