The LYLAS Podcast
If you know what LYLAS stands for, then this podcast is for you! Two besties since middle school turned moms and psychologists dish on "the good, the fun, and the yucks" of life! We're tackling all things mental health, "mom balance" (whatever the hell that is), transitions in life (divorce, career, aging parents, parent loss, loss of friendships), self-care, travel, healthy habits, raising kids, and allllllll the things us midlife mamas are experiencing. We hope each week listeners feel like they just left a good ol' therapy session with their bestie! We'll dish on all the tips and tricks to keep your mental health in check and enjoy this thing called life! Meet your life's newest cheerleaders-- Sarah & Jen! LYLAS!
The LYLAS Podcast
The LYLAS Podcast, Season 4, Re-Release, "Are Platonic Relationships Possible?"
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This is a spicy re-release from Season 4! Through our candid conversation, we explore what constitutes appropriate interaction versus potential disrespect to your partner. Is it about the content of your conversations? The frequency? The settings in which they occur? We discover that the intimacy shared, rather than merely the existence of the relationship, often serves as the true boundary marker. While casual workplace interactions might be perfectly fine, regular private messaging about personal matters might signal crossing a line, regardless of innocent intentions.
Agree? Disagree? Have a thought? Share it with us by texting the show or on social media!
Also, Season 5 is coming soon! We have already recorded some killer episodes with a variety of guests!
Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com
Season Four Re-release Introduction
Speaker 1Guess who it is? Sarah Stevens with the Lylas Podcast, with another re-release from season four. Just to be honest, jen and I really love season four, and we hope that you enjoyed listening to it as much as we liked recording it and talking about these topics. If you happen to miss this one, though, we would love to revisit it and hear your thoughts, your comments, maybe, if you agree or disagree with us. This topic is are platonic relationships possible? This was a spicy episode, um, and it was fun to talk about because there's a lot of lot of things to think about. So be sure to tune in, give us your thoughts, feelings and feedback, and again, season five is coming your way with a fresh, new look, new sound, new website, new social media, all the jam, just to get ready for Season 5.
Speaker 2Welcome to LILAS. I feel like changing it up today. So I'm going to say LILAS stands for Love. You Like a Sis, but if you're a bro, we love you too. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1Welcome everybody. Thanks for tuning in again to season four, which we are cooking through with hot and fun topics.
Speaker 2That's right, and episode 69, coming in hot. So before we get to that, I just want to note that today is the day after Halloween and if you're a parent, you probably feel a little hungover not from drinking last night, but I don't know. Halloween just like knocks me out. I don't know if it's the late night or if it's the sugar filled kids, it's the dressing up. You know, halloween used to be like one night when we were kids.
Speaker 2Now it's like you have your neighborhood party, you have trunk or treat, then you have actual Halloween. I'm so over Halloween by the time it gets here. It was like if I have to put this costume on one more time, I'm gonna lose it. I'll just paint my face and, you know, put a wig on my kid one more time.
Speaker 1Just done, done I was so done. Already taken down the decorations by the way Ripped them down at 530 this morning.
Speaker 2Couldn't take it. I was like moving on Thanksgiving, here we go.
Speaker 1We're done.
Speaker 2Done. Do you feel that way? You halloween am?
Speaker 1I just like what is no, it is a lot of work like going to like the school and having halloween parties and stuff. I mean I just maybe I just get too overstimulated in that kind of environment. I don't really like being around. I don't like being around a whole bunch of kids anyways, I'm just going to say it Especially young ones. I just don't. I can take like a few of them, but I'm not going to be ashamed of that anymore. You know what? I have kids.
Speaker 2I love them to death, but it's not my thing, that's okay.
Speaker 1And so that's a lot, and then I do like seeing like the costumes and I absolutely love decorating our house and I love what Halloween symbolizes, because to me it means that it's the one holiday that we have where you can and everybody gets celebrated for their uniqueness, their creativity to be daring and there's just not any real judgment that gets passed on it.
Speaker 1You know so. It's the only holiday that's truly like that. So I love what it symbolizes, but I do not like cause we just don't. Sugar in our house is used for rescue. It's not used as a treat. You know what I mean. We just have a different relationship with it, and so it just does not. It's just not.
Speaker 2Yeah, I find I don't love candy anymore, like I was looking at my kids candy and I'm like I had one little pack of like peanut M&Ms and I was underwhelmed and um.
Speaker 2I was like you know, I just don't love candy anymore. I don't know if it's changing. You know they say your taste buds change, but it's just not the same. I used to dig like a Milky Way. I just not even remotely intrigued by it anymore. I don't know, I don't mean to hate on Halloween and I do love your take on it, but honestly, because it's true it is, and it's so fun for the kids and that's why so much effort, or you know, put so much effort into bringing the magic. But I'm just tired.
The Main Question: Platonic Relationships
Speaker 2I think that boils down to I'm tired, so anyway, it has nothing to do with today's topic. I just really needed to get that off my chest. I'm done with Halloween. I'm glad I don't have to see it for another 365.
Speaker 1There you go, cheers, cheers, you go, cheers.
Speaker 2Cheers to that. So today's topic I am very excited to talk about this because I had girls night last week and posed this question to my girlfriends and got some interesting responses. My husband and I had a date night. I posed this question to him. He kind of like changed my mind with his response because I, you know I was like okay. So I'm excited to talk about this and I'm just going to pose the question to you and get your response. Can 40-year-olds and you don't have to be 40, let's say 30, right? Can married, happily married adults have platonic relationships with the opposite sex or same sex? If you're homosexual, I'm just like it. Can we have platonic relationships?
Speaker 1I mean, I guess, to get in the full weeds of it. To me, I think it depends on how that's defined, Like, if you have work friends and they have work friends, you guys probably hang out, you probably see each other as each other's friends and spend time together. But and maybe I'm going to take a very conservative stance on this, and again I'm going to take a very conservative stance on this and again I'm going to be unapologetic about it I just don't think that there will ever be a time in my life where it is going to be okay for my husband to be texting another woman as they identify as a woman how? If that is how you identify, then you are that woman. It is not okay for you to be texting my husband, I don't know, at night while I'm laying in his bed. That's not okay.
Speaker 2Or him texting her. So let's not, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1Right. That to me is a bigger cross of lines and I'm just even though we have a trusting, loving, great relationship, that kind of thing happening does not work for me and I don't think it would really work for him either.
Speaker 2So that's my, that's my hot take on it, yeah it's a it's a no-go in this house.
Speaker 2It's funny you said that like define platonic relationship, because when I posed this question to my husband on date night, he said the same thing. He said, well, define what you mean by that. Is that like you know a work friend, like you're saying, like somebody you see every day, even if it's virtually? You know, you might, you know if you get on a call early you might be sharing like personal information of like my kids are dressed up as this. You know those types of things. Those are sort of like friendly conversations, and so I was like, okay, that's a good point. Like, define what that is. Is that like messaging somebody? Is that spending time with them away from your significant other? You know, like, I think you do have to put some definition into that.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2But ultimately, when I was thinking about this topic and kind of like, hey, I just I think it's a good topic because growing up I thought I was always really good at having platonic relationships, like almost prided myself on that.
Defining Boundaries in Relationships
Speaker 2You know, I've had supervisors that were men and as a woman, like you know, we get hit on a lot. I'm just going it like there are into window, in you, windows I don't even know how to say that word, but you know there are things that are said like you are, you know, if somebody's sort of like putting the feeler out there, for lack of a better term. But I always sort of prided myself on being able to be like ain't got a chance, like, yeah, we can be friends, and it stops here. But when I posed this question to my husband, he was like, no, I don't think that you can have a platonic relationship. Um, he was like. You know, he was like because he was like, honestly, jenny, he was like it was something you said to me, you know, almost 20 years ago, when you were in grad school, I had this professor that sort of talked about relationships as a home right and that if you start having you know they could be very general conversations, like it could start that way.
Speaker 2Or maybe one day you hop on and you're on with somebody and you start oh, my wife and I got in a huge fight this morning and blah, blah, blah. He explained it as like you're opening a window you're opening an opportunity for something to transpire.
Speaker 2And it could be that you didn't even mean to, but once you start to share those types of deep conversations and things, that you are opening the doors and windows to your home, to your relationship, for something to happen. And it's like that stuck with me and he was like that's why he was on a work trip recently and he got there and this woman I think she's like in her 60s, but it was just the two of them there and everybody else was coming the next day and she was like well, do you want to go grab dinner?
Speaker 2and he was like no, I'm gonna grab dinner by myself, like we'll do dinner as a group tomorrow. And he was like no, I'm going to grab dinner by myself, Like we'll do dinner as a group tomorrow. And he was like I do that out of respect for you. Like I'm obviously not interested in this woman. She's 20 years older than me.
Speaker 2But he was like it's still me going out to dinner with another woman. Talk about this kind of stuff Like I don't ask him who he goes into. I have 100% trust in my husband. Almost probably like to a fault Like I would be so blindsided.
Speaker 2Um and I hope he feels the same way. I mean, I just you know like I would be so blindsided if something ever happened, but I was like, huh, I had never really thought about that. Um, and I've got some other examples but, and we've had lots of you know a lot of good conversation, but it was interesting when I went and posed this at girls night.
Speaker 1It was almost like divided.
Speaker 2It was like, yeah, and so I just that's why I think this is such an interesting topic, because even within my girl group, um, one of my girlfriends is really good friends with one of the other girlfriends husbands, like, they have been really good friends for a long time and so she looked at her and was like is that weird, that so-and-so and I went to a football game together and she's like no, no, no, like because it's not a repeated thing you know, you all did that one time two years ago, and so I think too, my, when Jeff and I were talking about this, he was like he he had said something similar.
Speaker 2He was like is it repeated interaction or is it like you talk once? Hey, how you doing? Haven't seen you in 10 years. Hope you're doing well. Have a nice day. You know he was like or is this you're communicating with regularly? I was like okay, I think that's fair right. Yeah, like if it's regular communication, you know it might be a platonic relationship, but it's not okay if you're in a committed relationship, To most people that's going to make them feel uncomfortable, even if it is completely platonic.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, I agree, and I don't think that's about a person's insecurity or, again, lack of trust within the other partner. I just think it comes down to having a healthy boundary and definitions of what that looks like and again, I'm not going to sugarcoat that or be apologetic to it, because that would that would take away my feelings about something that are very, very important to me and I do appreciate, you know, what your Jeff said in terms of you know how is that defined? Is this repetitive? You know, um, the fact that it does open a door. You know I I just don't think that in any of the work relationships I've had with somebody am I going in there and bitching about my family life.
Speaker 2You know, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1Right, you know, and even if it's with our work, friends, we're talking about things within a group of people, not an isolated, you know, kind of one on one where I'm going out and having coffee with this one person.
Speaker 1Right, right or anything else like that, and I just I don't. I don't think that there's anything wrong with saying no. I'm not comfortable with this type of relationship and I would almost, I would almost be worried if there is argument on the other side, you know, because that just doesn't, that doesn't fit right either. You know, it doesn't.
Speaker 2Like me. You know like I was saying initially when Jeff and I were having this conversation.
Speaker 2I'm like but I know me and like you know me, you know that like I would never, like that's just not. That's not who I am. You know I was a product of divorce. I grew up because of an affair that occurred and like, that's not what I want for my kids, that's not what I want for myself. Like we're in a very you know, obviously loving, committed relationship, so I'm like you would never have anything to worry about. Like I said, I've always sort of prided myself on that.
Sharing Deep Conversations and Intimacy Concerns
Speaker 2I can engage in completely platonic relationships, but the bottom line is, if it makes your significant other feel uncomfortable, then it's not okay, right? I mean, like if you're, if you're truly committed and you want to have a healthy relationship, then you don't want to do anything that makes them feel to even like have thoughts of comfort or wondering or anything like that. Yeah, um, you know, like I said, he kind of changed my mind over the course of it. Now, my one girlfriend that was sort of singing the same tune that I was, because she is friends with another friend's husband and like was friends with him before they got together, right, and of course now like we're all really close friends, but, um, you know, she was like I feel like I can have platonic relationships and I think, ultimately, whether you think you can or you can't, that's not the that's not the point. The point is like, does it make your, your person, feel uncomfortable, right, or is it some sort of like disrespect towards them? And I had, honestly, I don't know if I'm the only person that feels this way. I had never thought of it before, like the disrespect to the other person.
Speaker 2Yeah, and it's not like I'm out here, like having you know, but like you know it's it's um, it's interesting, cause I think back, you know, when I was pregnant with Jack and I worked with this guy at the middle school and or right before before I got pregnant with Jack, I had lost my dad and he lost his dad in the same way, and you know I would talk to him about it and just you know, because I could and he could really relate to that and I'm like that to me was a very platonic relationship. But in hindsight, like you know I mean again, this was like 10 years ago but in hindsight, like having this conversation now like probably wasn't the best idea, like you know, I don't know, it's just hard, because when you're grieving. You're kind of looking for somebody that can really relate to you and understand what you're going through. And you know he was kind of that person at that time. You know his room, his, his classroom was right across from my office. I would see him early in the mornings. He'd be like how you doing, you know it just. But in hindsight, like if that were to happen today, in present time, I don't know that I would engage in the same way. Yeah, like just even like sharing like my grief with somebody.
Speaker 2But I don't know, I'm like, you know my friend Claire, who I, you know I love Claire because she just says it like it is. Yeah, shout out to Claire because Claire will just tell you like it is. But you know, I said to the group, I said you know Jeff says that like a man, you know, and I'm going to assume, heterosexual man, if a man is engaging with a woman, he was like there's some level of interest. He was like we're typically not looking for like girl friends, and my friend Claire is like well, that like why the fuck not? You know what is it you like can't be friends with a woman even if she's attractive, even if she's. You know what is it you like can't be friends with a woman, even if she's attractive, even if she's, you know, like why does it only have to be like some sort of underlying, like desire there for you to engage in any kind of friendship? And I was like again, like good point, claire.
Speaker 1Again like you're.
Speaker 2You're telling me that men can't have just like a girlfriend. You know what I mean? I don't know.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think that the intimacy or the sharing that takes place between both parties is also, you know, a component of is this okay or not Okay? So, like I, that's just. Maybe that's just my opinion. Again, this is all just my opinion on it. But no, I don't think that it would be okay for me to go out and have lunch with a guy friend and sit there and bitch about jeff all the time you know, or talk about how bad things are cut out like the bitch about him.
Speaker 2What if you were talking about? What if it was somebody else that was a type 1 diabetic and you all and is also a long distance runner and you are going out and like having coffee, to like talk about the big race that's coming up and sharing like some tips on what you're. What am I doing? What are you doing? How are you keeping your blood like?
Speaker 2I'm just throwing out an example, like something completely aside from your relationship with your husband, something like very targeted, very like because I know you know men in the running community like you know, like that to me is a platonic relationship, like you're my friend, you're helping me plan for this, you're helping me with my training, like almost in a coaching kind of like situation, I mean with my training, like almost in a coaching kind of like situation, I could see that, you know, being okay personally, yeah, I mean I've never met that person.
Speaker 1I'd play the lottery in that same day. You know, it would be really cool to meet somebody else who has that condition and does this stuff. I know a few, but they started after I did. I coached them through it, so it's never been the other way around Same thing.
Speaker 2Like you're, let's say you're coaching them. Let's say, you know.
Speaker 1I it was never done alone, though. I would never meet with anybody alone to do something like that. It'd be like well, I'm going to Roberts, are you going to go to? It's a running store around our neighborhood, so you know I'm going there, you go in there or be on a group run with other people. I would not meet those people alone. I just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2What if they were messaging and saying, like asking you questions via message, would you just like not respond?
Interacting with Spouses' Friends
Speaker 1Yeah, I would probably do a post about it, or I would tell Jeff that somebody is messaging me about a run, and I'd include him in the conversation of it, or to let him know that it was happening. And that's again what it would stick to, and so the content of the conversation is very limited to a very specific area, and so, therefore, my interactions with this person are not going to be, you know, in that repetitive nature or in that in those other kinds of qualifiers that we're putting out there. So it's not going to, the conversation is not going to go past. Carry some shit on you, you know, test your sugar if you feel bad and then have a recovery plan. I mean, that's pretty much it, but it's just not going to go outside the terms and conditions of the relationship, and I'm not also going to engage in it without talking to him first.
Speaker 2Okay, so you would just be extremely transparent essentially is what you're saying Like can read my messages. This is what we're talking about. Yes, I'm going back and forth with this person, but I'm just trying to give them, you know, some tips and things that they're asking specifically for.
Speaker 1Yeah, and even if I did that, it would be incredibly limited, but that's just. I don't think that again, we could put out any situation that's out there and I guarantee there's going to be somebody else better than me to answer it, and that you know you should. Probably I'll lead you in the direction of finding somebody else that you can talk to about this, but I'm not going to be your person.
Speaker 2So you know, I'll mention other people.
Speaker 1Yeah, I just am not going to do it because I have so much I'm not going to. I have so much respect for him and what I'm asking of him. I'm not going to be the pot calling the kettle black within this. You know what I mean, kind of a thing. So if I'm not, if I don't think it's okay, then I'm not going to engage in it myself, because then what am I telling him? That's a big mismessage. Well, I can do it because I trust and I know myself, but you know, it's just, and that's fair.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's just not. It's just not something that I'm down with.
Speaker 2So yeah, I mean, like I said when I, when I you and I first, you know, we always kind of come up with some topic ideas and when I posed this question I felt very strongly that we could have platonic relationships. But the more I listened to people with a differing view which hello we could all do better at that. Differing a few, which hello we could all do better at that. Right, like, consider the other side of things, the other side of the coin.
Speaker 2You know it has changed my mind in that it really comes down to like respect for your partner and, you know, just wanting to protect what you have because it is so sacred and you just don't ever want to open the door for anything to happen. Like, and I and you know I do like part of me is sad about that just because, not that I have like all these male friends. That's not what I'm saying, but you know it's more of um, I don't know it's like like we can't be friends Like. You know what I mean. Like there is like it annoys me that everything has some sort of underlying sexual tension and I'm like, why does it have to be that way? Like, why?
Speaker 1That or intimacy and I. It doesn't even have to be in a situation where there could be a you know sexual attractiveness or anything else, so let's take that out of it. It's just the intimacy of sharing deep and personal things with someone else that is not someone of the same sex or identity as your partner. That's where the thing is with me. Take sexual interest out. Some situations that might not even be the issue, but it's the sharing of intimate personal relationship or items with that other person. That just that's the icky for me. Like that's where it's just like you know you got these guys. Can you not just talk to them about whatever's going on?
Speaker 2Or you have your girlfriend, but men don't talk about stuff like that. They don't Like. I have men reach out to me that I went to college with. They listen to the podcast and you know they're like I've been struggling with my mental health and you know they get kind of specific on what they're struggling with and I'm always, like you know, gracious, obviously, and grateful that they hey, that they support this podcast and, you know, even feel comfortable reaching out and telling me this. I will say it usually stops after like one message, like it's not a back and forth type of thing, but you know, I mean, I feel like men don't talk to each other about stuff like that.
Speaker 1I don't know, I mean that's kind of on them if they don't. But doesn't mean it's okay for you to go talk to. You know, sally down the road about it. You know, if you're and I'll even go as far as this Okay, go see a professional. You know, I would say that my patient population when I was working was, most of the time I don't know 53% guys and the other 47 female.
Speaker 2I like how specific you got about that. Like why not just say 50, 50?
Speaker 1Cause, it just wasn't.
Speaker 2And it wasn't so much. Yeah, it's just like 60, 40, something like that.
Speaker 1Yeah, it was again, it was a real teeter totter, but it was always that there were more of them. But I think it also came down to the nature of what I was working with you know, I mean.
Speaker 1I was doing a lot of work and so you know there aren't tear a huge amount of females in the military or that are first responders or that are, you know, physicians and doing other things, whatever, but yeah so, but even even in that point, go talk to one of them. Things are that bad or you're on the struggle bus. I'm happy to point you in a direction of somebody you can talk to about it, but again, that person is not going to be me, Because that also, just it just blurs way too many lines and I'm just especially, I guess, whenever it comes to that area, it is not appropriate for me to be your shoulder to talk to, because you're pulling too much out of me and out of a reservoir that's saved for, honestly, a professional realm that I should not be talking about this with you.
Speaker 2So what about your husband's friends?
Speaker 1I mean, I think that that's the point. They're his friends. You know, am I friends with them?
Speaker 2I was gonna say do you consider them your friends?
Speaker 1Yeah, I consider them our friends. But if you were to kind of sketch it back, the origin of the relationship did not involve me. The origin of the relationship involved him being friends with other people, and so at that point too, it's not like I'm going out and hanging out with his friends or sitting there and texting and kind of get a hold of you know, or chit chatting or anything else. Whenever we see our friends, it's our friends together. You know, it's never any other type of dynamic. If I'm trying to plan a surprise party at the office, I'm texting all 10 of them, right, we're having a surprise party. I need you to help to get everybody there, keep him out of the office, do whatever you know. But again, I think that that's a different thing and I don't think that he would be comfortable with me communicating with any of his friends through text and having my own individual relationship with them.
Speaker 2So I could be wrong, but I don't think, so I'm going to have to ask my husband because I will say my husband's very best friend. I definitely have like a friendship, you know, like we are friends.
Speaker 2We're definitely, like you know, same thing, like anytime I see him, we're all together, like I would. You know, I'm not going to go see him. No, if I was, like in the city, yeah, I would go see him, for sure, I'd go have a cup of coffee because I do believe my husband would be okay with that. But I'm going to have to ask him because, like, we text each other like you know stupid stuff, like we have ongoing jokes and sometimes it's like me and another wife of the group and this friend I mean it's just like very best friend of the group and this friend I mean it's Jeff's like very best friend, um, and so you know, he has never said anything like and I always say, like I was texting with so-and-so today and he generally laughs or says what do you say? You know, whatever, like we have conversations about it, but that's a great point.
Speaker 2Like I didn't bring that one up when we were talking about this, like, was that ever bothered you, that so-and-so and I text back and forth, or that we have a group chat with out you in it, you know, with some of the other like wives of the friend group? Um, he probably wouldn't have, you know, I'm thinking he's gonna say that doesn't bother him, but I can't wait to find out his answer. Right, we did not talk about that. And that's such a great example like that's another great example like he knows this person very well, trust this person with his whole heart I mean he, you know and so I am very intrigued to hear his answer to this yeah, I know that it would not fly in that scenario.
Communication with Opposite Sex in Public Settings
Speaker 2It's so interesting because I'm like it is like just what we talked about, like it is, I would say, semi-regular communication. I you know, maybe like once a month or it depends, like if we've just seen them, I get more text messages, whatever, um, those types of things. But you know, usually it's stuff like about my husband. Like you know how excited is jeff to see me this week. You know it's like silly, fun, funny stuff. Like that you know I'll be like, oh, he hasn't slept in days. Like you know how excited is Jeff to see me this week. You know it's like silly, fun, funny stuff. Like that you know I'll be like, oh, he hasn't slept in days. Like you know he's been counting down on his calendar.
Speaker 2Like you know, like we kind of like go back and forth but I guess that's what I mean and that like I feel like you can have a platonic relationship Like I. I go back and forth, I completely see the other side and I think there you got to put context in it Like does your person know the other person? And I'm not saying that's always right, right, because we know that. Like you know that that's how I've known of other affairs, like in neighborhoods where you know they were couples who were best friends and then all of a sudden, like two people were peeling off and hanging out together and it evolved into something else. I think certainly, if you are hanging out with someone else on a regular basis, out your significant other like that is definitely a hard no, yeah, but I will say like I do feel like I have a very good platonic relationship with my husband's best friend Almost, like I feel like he would be sad if we didn't have a good friendship because they're so close and like that's his other than me. That's his person.
Speaker 2You know yeah.
Speaker 1I hear you, I know, but I just, I don't, I just can't think of a situation in which that would be okay or it would be okay. I don't think that he thinks that it would be okay for me to sit there and text his very best friends, which, either way, all work for him.
Speaker 2What if Jeff texted me?
Speaker 1I think, again, it comes down to the context and everything else that was going on, because, as you all listened to the race recap, you guys were texting for like six months and I had no idea.
Speaker 2That was the next thing I was going to say.
Speaker 1But I think that what you were talking about was not of any intimacy, and I think that that comes down to as a qualifier for me. Yeah, I don't think that you should be having intimate conversations about your personal life with someone that identifies as, or is, the opposite sex, and that is just how I feel about it. And so, again, the intimacy of the conversation is the qualifier for me, and that does include how often, what type? Do I know this person on my own? Is this person someone I've ever met before?
Speaker 1You know, I'm just not. It's just not a realm that I'm okay with. So, and I'm pretty sure you guys aren't still texting now. You know the race has been over Right.
Speaker 2So again there's the point.
Speaker 1You know the race has been over. Yeah, I mean right, right. So again, there's the point. It was for a very sweet and surprise-based thing, um the. There was not a whole lot of intimacy that is being shared or talked about or discussed, or this, that and the other logistics, yeah and so again, okay, but it's. I think where it crosses the line is intimacy being the qualifier.
Speaker 2I think that's fair, like putting some parameters on, like exactly how you're engaging in conversation with with that other person.
Speaker 2Yeah, like every now and then your Jeff will text me, like when you lose your phone or he'll be like sending me pictures of you, of you know, know, like, if you're right, like that, like that kind of stuff, but I always feel like it's you telling him to text me, like those kinds of situations where it's like hey, sarah lost her phone, or sarah's phone's dead or right working, you know something to that degree she finished, or here's a picture, right, right. Those types of conversations it's never like well, how you doing, jenny, like those types of things we're not having, you know right, and that's the, that's the boundary, that's the parameter you know what I mean and that's fine, and there's nothing again wrong with that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1But if it extends beyond that point, then that's where it starts to become very murky. It's like being out at sea at that point. You're just, you're out in the deep now. So, and I just what?
Speaker 2do you do, like let's say, you engage in that, and then like I mean, like what if somebody is listening to this and they're like shit, like I I definitely have had like a conversation with somebody at work, or like we go on work trips and yeah, we go for coffee, or like you know, I was being there for somebody when they were going through a hard time Like do you feel it's necessary to then like go back and and then like explain that to your significant other and like you know what I mean, like retroactively, just be like hey, I just need you to know. Is it worth it to like even put those thoughts in their head? Or is it like I've changed my view on things and, just moving forward, I'm going to operate in a different manner? Like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1I like the latter part better, but again, I think that if you're having those thoughts about but again, I think that if you're having those thoughts about could this be, could my partner get upset that I've been doing this, then you probably know you shouldn't have been doing it.
Speaker 2No, that's fair.
Speaker 1Throw that out there first, if you're thinking that your partner is going to be upset about the conversations you're having with somebody, then you should feel the need to hide it. Right, you should be doing it that should be a red flag to you.
Speaker 1Right, and whether that's a red flag on your bad or on their bad or whatever else, it doesn't matter. You shouldn't be doing it Right. So I guess that is my answer, and then if you do find yourself in that situation, then I mean I'm a person of full transparency. I would just be like, look, I heard this podcast. I don't. I realize now that this is probably not okay.
Speaker 1Because of me listening to this, I'm feeling like kind of yucky and squeamish because, I may not be honoring you in the way that I should, and I just want you to know that I, even if you're okay with this, I'm sorry and I'm not going to continue to do it because it doesn't feel right to me. I think that that's fine, you know, um, but if you're feeling icky about it, you shouldn't be doing it.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. Um, yeah, and I think too, just like having the conversation, like if you're on a date night, like having this, just to see where your significant understands on this, I think, is interesting, because it did. We had some pretty deep conversations and it never got like you know, heated or anything.
Speaker 2I mean we're sitting at the bar having dinner and you know we talked about another scenario, one that you know I'm not going to go into too much detail because I do want to protect my friends and you know, like I don't want to like share anything that would ever make anyone that I love feel uncomfortable. Um, but you know, I I posed a specific example to him and he was like, actually that didn't make me feel uncomfortable and I was like what I mean? I was floored, honestly floored, and if I gave you the context of this, I think some other people might be floored. That that, you know, bothered him, but, honestly, I would have never in a million years thought that that would, because, again, like our relationship is so strong and this was really coming from a very genuine helper, like trying to be helpful in the situation, truly just trying to like be there for somebody that was going through it.
Speaker 2Yeah, um, and you know, when he was like actually that did make me feel uncomfortable, I was like, oh damn, you know, like I I didn't even know and I was like I'm so sorry, like I would have never, ever done anything to make you feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2So it did help us to at least like acknowledge that I would have never, ever, done anything to make you feel uncomfortable. So it did help us to at least like acknowledge that he would have never told me that on his own had I not posed this question to him or like brought this up, um, and so I think just having this conversation can really, you know whether you feel one way or the other, kind of enlighten you to how your partner feels about platonic relationships. And I think you do have to define them, as we've said a couple of times, like you do have to define what you mean by that. You know, like hanging out without your significant other having regular communication, having intimate communication, and that doesn't mean like sexual, just like, you know, like deep thoughts, deep thoughts by Jenny, or detail, as we all think in this house, like just sharing those sort of like intimate feelings that no one else knows, right?
Speaker 2Intimate I don't know the definition of it, but I'm pretty sure it's like not not well-known, right? Maybe like only a few people know or only you know, like those types of things. We don't mean intimate and like getting hot and heavy.
Speaker 1No, no, I mean, that's definitely off the table. You know what I mean, but I just think that there's a there's a different level of um crossing a line that you just I don't know you need to be aware of and you shouldn't do, and I don't think that that's me trying to control a person's relationship or say that you can't be friends with somebody. This is about me and my relationship with you and what I'm okay with happening or not.
Speaker 1If you want to twist this around and make it about you, then there's a bigger problem here you know.
Speaker 2so boundaries and stick into it, Right.
Speaker 1Right, right. And again, if you're, let's go. I mean, if I want to train for something, if I want to do something I know somebody else is doing it I'm going to talk to my husband first before I go and talk to that other person and be like hey, I found out, there's somebody else that knows X, y and Z about this. Is it okay with you if I reach out and send them a message and talk to them about it and just see what their feedback is? And if he says yes, then okay. But then that's where it ends. You know, it's not like we're going to go out and then meet up on a trail and I'm going to go on a run with them. I'm just going to be like, okay.
Speaker 1I said to Jeff I'm like you, work out at a gym with really hot women. They're hot, they're all. Hot they are.
Speaker 2And the trainers are hot and you know, and I was like I'm certain that you don't sit there quietly in class. I'm certain that you have conversations with these women, you know, but like that doesn't bother me because I don't know, it just has never bothered me. I'm like I could go to that gym too. I used to go, I just don't go anymore. I'm like, but I'm like you know, what point does that also like cross that boundary? Like I see this person every morning, I have a conversation with them every morning. You know, I said I think for me it would be like if, like you were, they do a lot of like group activities outside of the gym, like run club, they have a social and stuff. Like I was like if you were trying to go to those things without me, but like my spidey sense up, yeah well, why can't I go too? Or why am I not invite you know?
Speaker 2right and so I guess for me that's where that like boundary is. It's like I'm not saying you can't like have womenit chats, chit chat, but you're not like telling them you know, well, my wife is, you know, my wife's really put on some weight here lately. Sure wish she'd come back to the gym, you know you're not having those types of conversations. Yeah, or you're not texting that person outside of the gym, like even for me, like if, or even getting their number for that matter right, why are we doing this?
Speaker 1You know, then, that's it's. I totally see that happening. I mean, we're friendly people, Our husbands are friendly people, very social creatures, but again, I'm not going to text somebody that I just saw at the gym and I don't think that he's going to either, you know, because again, that's a reach outside of that. You know, going into a workout place and seeing the same people every day, you know, it's whenever that, then that's fine. Nice little chit chats, encouragement, whatever else. But then how did you get the number? You know? How'd you get my number?
Speaker 2And why Right? How'd you get my number? And why yeah? What was the context of the number Mm-hmm Right.
Speaker 1Yeah, I saw this person, you know message me on Facebook. You know that's a look Like you have to find people and that takes intention in order to do it Like that's a premeditated act. So let's just go ahead and throw that out there For whatever purpose it still is, and so that feels pretty yuck too. I just call me old school.
Respecting Your Partner's Comfort Level
Speaker 2I'll be, I'll wear that crown all day long on this topic, but I'm just yeah, like I said, it definitely has changed my perception of things to some extent. You know, not not saying one is right or wrong. Wrong, I think it's whatever is right for your relationship, but I definitely see the other side of the coin much clearer now, you know, and I think I'll be a little bit more moving, like with intention, with conversations that I have. You know, even if somebody reaches out about the podcast or um, you know, hey, haven't seen you, your kids are cute, like I think, just being intentional in your responses, intentional in boundary setting, intentional in and in protecting your, your significant other and their feelings, I think, yeah, that's how I'll move forward with things.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's fair, and I mean I just I, I hear you, I mean, and I know that there's some people will die on whatever hill that they stand on on these types of topics, and I get it.
Speaker 2But it's just Listen. I would have two weeks ago, I would have died on that hill saying you absolutely can have platonic relationships. But I think that's why you have hard conversations like this. Yeah, I do, because, even though I can say wholeheartedly, I have never, not one time, thought about cheating on my husband or done anything that would be considered cheating on my husband, I will say I would have.
Speaker 2I would have argued forever that you can have a platonic relationship now, the minute that he started. You know, should that have ever presented itself as like him having a platonic relationship? I don't know that I would have had the same feelings about it, but to that point he has. There's a woman that he used to work with that I know that like they text sometimes about work and stuff like that and again like that bothered me, because I know her, I know what they're talking about Whenever he sees her. We're all together.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Like those types of things. But yeah, I think just it sort of makes you kind of take a step back and really think about you know, really protecting your, your relationship.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think that's just kind of what it comes down to. So and and just like again, I think if you're in that kind of loving relationship, then you have to take you out of it and just you know, respect the fact that your partner is not okay with this. Yeah, I mean again.
Speaker 1I don't think that it's well. You just don't trust me, you just aren't. You're trying to control me. You're trying to say who I can and cannot be friends with. I don't think that that's what this is about. This is about again protecting intimacy between a couple and honoring that, and stepping outside of that boundary just isn't okay.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I mean, that's just it Fair.
Speaker 2That's how I'm going to die on the hill yeah, I was very excited to talk about this because I just the level of uh, I don't know like passion from the conversations that I've had with other people when we talk about this I thought, oh, like, hey, this is something we've never talked about. We'll have very differing opinions on this yeah, I'm so glad you talked to it too with your girl group to kind
Speaker 2of get that feedback too, so that was good yeah, I thought it was interesting how divided it was um and how, like we can, we were like having the conversation and then it continued like an hour later like we brought it back up again because it was like well, how did you feel about this? Or what about this? Or like I, sometimes I text your husband, like you know, because we do. I think that's all when you're in like kind of bigger friend groups and everybody gets along really well and we're all like really close you know what I mean.
Speaker 2Like go on vacations together, like those types of like closeness, sure you know you do start to be like well, does that apply to this relation? Does that apply to like? Me texting your husband about like his team one and you know like is that inappropriate. Like it led to a much bigger conversation amongst this group of girlfriends because, like the Redskins won last Sunday, they had a huge win, like at the last second the ball got tipped right into the receiver's hands.
Speaker 2I mean, it was huge, and we have a couple buddies who are huge Redskins fans, so of course I text them.
Speaker 1Holy shit, what an ending like great you know, congrats, yeah, great win something like that.
Speaker 2But I'm like it does make you think like, is that inappropriate? Should I have not done that Should I have included my husband on that text message Maybe so. You know, it's just it, If nothing else. It has got me thinking about how I communicate with other men.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And so, if nothing else like yeah, it definitely has me thinking about just respecting him and his feelings.
Speaker 1Sure sure, no, I get it, I get it and it is. I mean, this conversation itself is an intimate conversation, you know in some ways, but it's just yeah.
Speaker 2Oh, like the conversation we're having, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Because it does. It involves so much passion and variables and insight to your own self and to your partner and to your relationship and towards other people and I don't know, I'm also. Maybe this is a topic for a different day, but you know, I think that we get caught up in this idea, especially because it's posted so much on, like social media. It's in all these mainstream books that you're reading that if you're not continually working on aspects of yourself, then you're just staying stagnant and not willing to grow.
Speaker 1But I think sometimes that that's not the appropriate response.
Speaker 1I think that sometimes, through our openness, our insights, our self reflection, that what we've really done is come to this kind of point within ourself that we're not willing to concede this area of my life, and I feel strong enough right now to say that. And so that's not a sign of weakness and me not being willing to reach further or to change my mind further. This is actually me, respecting me and who I am, by also setting this boundary, like no, you know what I've done a lot of self-reflection about this, a lot of thought, I've talked to other people about it and just kind of deep down in my heart, this is just who I am, this is what I believe, this is kind of this is it, and I'm not. That's where I'm done at. Okay, I'll work on the self-development in this area, this area, in this area, but on this one I'm checking my own box because I feel at this point, finally, at 42 or whatever, confident enough to sit here and say that and not to feel ashamed for having my opinion about it.
Speaker 1So again maybe a topic for a different day, because I just feel like we get caught up in that Like well, you need to just continue to work on self-development and be open, and I mean you hear it all the time.
Speaker 2Your responsibility, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, you see it all the time on like again, like on social media. You hear other people talking about it and this is a whole industry of books right now. But on the other side of that, sometimes people are just have gotten the strength that they say that it's not okay. Then that's actually great.
Speaker 1That's actually the growth that they've come to in that point in their life to say, no, why are we shutting that down? That's not okay either. So, yeah, it just blows up so much and then you just you get hit with something whenever you want to stand firm on it and I just think sometimes it's just our job to be a tree yeah, if it's something you know that you feel so strongly about, for sure.
Setting Boundaries and Closing Thoughts
Speaker 2So well, I want to end on that, because I think that I love how you just put that and I think that that's a great way to to end this, so um, might be your topic for the next show yeah, it could be topic uh, number 70 coming in hot uh so that also means that we are in the top one percent of podcasts.
Speaker 2Did you know that just because we have so many episodes out? I think I read somewhere, like most shows don't make it past seven episodes, or maybe it was slightly more than that, but we're rolling up on number 70. So if you would like to continue to hear from us and support the libelous podcast, we would be so grateful for you to leave a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, whether that be spotify or apple, please leave us a review. Let us know how we're doing. Check us out on our website.
Speaker 2You can always find us at the lieless podcastcom, and then also on instagram and facebook, even though sarah can't get into our facebook anymore, um, we, I think we're going to try to start a new one, if we can figure that out. Definitely our Instagram. I am going to get better at posting. That is definitely. One of my main goals is to get out and really start to promote this podcast, because it does mean so much to us and we hope that that it does to you as well. So happy Friday, happy November 1st. Go take your Halloween shit down, if you haven't already, and see you next week, or chat next week. Until then, lila.
