"Reality" TV Repercussions: How it Effects Our Reality

The glow-up isn’t just better lighting—it’s a reckoning with the culture that raised us. We’re taking a clear-eyed look at the new America’s Next Top Model documentary and using it as a lens on the 90s and 2000s media diet that shaped how we see beauty, worth, and ourselves. If TV was our classroom, what exactly did we learn, and how do we unlearn what hurts?

We trace the pipeline from teen dramas to reality TV and glossy magazines, where one narrow body type became the template and even hair color mapped to “good girl” and “bad girl.” We share a near-model path that hit a hard height limit, the thrill of backstage fashion week, and the shock of rewatching on-air judgments that treated women’s bodies like public property. There’s nuance, too: intent to diversify the runway met the reality of producers, ratings, and the economics of spectacle. Some voices own the harm; others stay guarded. We hold space for both progress and pain.

From there, we get practical. We talk about retraining negative self-talk, swapping shame for behavior-focused health, and building media literacy that asks who benefits from each storyline. As parents, we admit it’s easier to police curfews than algorithms, then share ways to curate kinder feeds, celebrate what bodies do, and catch those “old TV voice” thoughts before they stick. The runway looks wider today, and that didn’t happen by accident—it grew because people demanded better stories.

If nostalgia brought you here, reflection will keep you. Join us as we rethink what we were sold, honor what we’ve survived, and practice a kinder way forward. If the episode resonates, subscribe, share it with a friend who grew up on these shows, and leave a review with the media moment that shaped you most.

Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com

Transcript

A Show Grows Up

SPEAKER_00 0:12

What are we like a thousand episodes in at this point? And we finally look like a real podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Yeah, that's what we were told today by our producer and editor. You finally look like a real podcast. Sixth season in. Six.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

God bless him for sticking with us, is all I can say. Two hot mess expresses rolling through.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Such patience. And the topics that we talk about sometimes, I'm always just like, I'm sorry, Seth.

Why We Make This Podcast

SPEAKER_00 0:37

I just have to say, I'm sorry. Sorry, Seth. Uh yeah. But you know what? It is the little podcast that could, and we're we're still learning like how to do lighting. And uh we need a lot of explicit instruction on how to do a podcast. And we're not trying to be rich and famous. And uh, but we are trying to create a space where people feel validated and not just validated, but also like, oh yeah, I'm going through this too. And here's some resources or some things that could hopefully support you as you go through these things.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

But for so many people to have just said, you know, hashtag seen, hashtag heard, this is definitely me. Every time that someone comments, posts, or leaves a review, it also serves as that validating factor to let us know that, hey, you know, we are talking about things that are relevant, that are important, that are hopefully, you know, helping to change your outlook for the day, to add a positive reframe, to help you know you're not alone, that we are all connected in this, and that, you know, we just happen to be keeping our inside thoughts and feelings on the outside, which we hope is helpful.

Setting Up The Fashion Topic

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Right. We're just putting it out there, hoping it lands with one person. That's right. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about fashion, sort of.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I love this topic. I love that you came up with the kind of I'm giving you credit for the idea of the topic, and then I immediately jumped on board and then binged watched what we're getting ready to talk about and loved every minute of binge watching it and remembered vividly things that I related to that um some of the contestants were saying, things that I've experienced within my own life in that world to a degree. And so I'm I'm super pumped that we're talking about this. It's hot.

Reality TV As A Teacher

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, I mean, children of the 80s and 90s, we were born in '82. Um, so I don't even know what. I mean, I feel like they call our generation a couple different things. I don't really know where we fit, but what I do know is when reality TV was taking off, it was we were definitely like the target demographic. And we were all watching it. I mean, I grew up on shows like 90210, uh Saved by the Bell, Melrose Place, Dawson's Creek, uh, which by the way is 100% about sex. Um, those were the shows that we were definitely watching at that age and learning a lot about ourselves and social things, our bodies. And I mean, I think, would you agree? I don't know if it was just like my parents' parenting style of like not talking about these things, or I mean, I just assumed like we were all learning from these shows.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yes, and I don't think that we knew that we were. You know, I don't think that whenever you are observing something for entertainment at any age, are you aware that you are actually learning about things that it is actually influencing your view of self? Um, it affects your preferences in terms of what you like and what you don't like. Um, it really, really is a very you're not just getting lights and sounds transmitted to you, you're getting messages that then can be internalized, transmitted to you through the through all the waves.

Three Lenses On The Documentary

SPEAKER_00 4:04

And then reality TV, the real world, I'll never forget, came out and like my life changed. And then you had like MTV cribs, you know, where you could like peek behind the curtain and see where celebrities lived. And then you had um America's next top model, um, which was, you know, even though I was five, too, like I was very curious about the modeling world. And I think we all were. We wanted to see what's it really like to be a supermodel and to, you know, what are what do they really go through? We were reading Cosmopolitan and 17 Magazine and these magazines that were also really targeted for us, and a lot of these reality TV stars were on these magazines or had write-ups in these magazines. So it was just sort of like flooding our universe at that time. And so, I mean, particularly if you were a woman, I don't know how you would have not seen these shows unless you, you know, maybe didn't have cable TV. But like, I feel like everybody watched some type of reality show. Um, and so I was definitely interested when I saw the the America's Next Top Model documentary come out on Netflix, not having social media to scroll. I'm watching a lot more television. And um, yeah, it it just I had a I had some big feelings watching that. And then you turned it on. So I am curious, what was just like your general takeaway after watching it?

Then Versus Now Ethics

SPEAKER_01 5:33

I think that my takeaway from it can be broken down into like three different sections, and so that's what I tried to focus on. I tried to focus on um its portrayal of the fashion industry being one, which is separate from the show. So it is the show, so to speak, but the actual industry itself I can talk about differently, you know what I mean, and how it was represented being in the show. Um I think that you talk about it from a reality TV standpoint, and my opinion on it then is very different. It very much changes to like, you know, to shock that some of the things that were aired were allowed to happen or be permitted. The third component is I felt like many of Tyra speaking, or you know, Miss J or you know, Jay Emmanuel um or Nigel, like I just felt like out of all of the people that they brought back on, that the most disingenuous was actually Tyra. I mean, she just seemed so cold and methodical. And I know this was her brand. I know that she is the brand, and that's something that happens whenever you are in that world. But I think whenever she was pointed to talk about things that um were questionable or off base, I was really shocked at how cold she kind of came across. And I think that's reflective of the tone that the show then took, um, which I think just becomes a manifestation of the ego that happens whenever you become huge and you become the brand, and then you want to continue to make this bigger, better, and everything else, you lose sight of the ethics that started you on this path to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

And so your why. I think that's even though she revisits her why, it's she definitely appears to have lost sight of her why pretty early on, too.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah. And so, I mean, I think that I can look at it in all those ways. And as we get into talking about this, I think one thing is really important. I I've said this on another podcast before, is that I am not a fan of necessarily going back and judging who we were at a point of time 20 to 15 years ago. What we were doing as part of that time was normative. I'm not saying it was right or wrong, but it was normative. And I don't think it's okay for us to go back and say, oh my gosh, I cannot believe like, you know, X, Y, and Z. Yeah, well, you know what? We should have known better for the last 2,000 years, and we're still not making that much progress. So let's not try to get on some holier than now, you know what I mean, stance, especially look at the state of the world today. Like if we really want to start to get judgmental, we can go down that path. Um, so that's what I don't want to do is judge the norms of yesterday based upon our perceptions today.

One Beauty Standard, Many Girls

SPEAKER_00 8:30

But I think that we can think that's a good reminder because I watch it and I'm like, I can't believe they put this on television. But you're right, like what was normal back then? I mean, it was kind of just the wild west for these reality TV shows. And I'm gonna use that word reality very loosely here because uh if you I don't want to ruin it if you haven't watched it, but you know, I mean, there it was very um contrived, and I think that probably is true for a lot of reality TV shows, but I don't think we knew that when we were watching these shows and uh the way that we do now. Like, I mean, if you watch like Real Housewives of anything, like you know, you know, that there's maybe not a script, but there's a storyline there, and that's certainly, you know, not something that's new, clearly that came way before when these um reality TV shows started. But it did make me think just like, you know, I have a young daughter um who's not too far or not much younger than I was when these shows came out. And, you know, I just think about the impact that that had on little Jenny, little Sarah. We were internalizing the message that was being sent, um, which was you had to be a real thin, blonde. And I know this for a fact. I look back at my pictures and I'm like, we were all highlighting our hair, blonde. You know, look how dark our hair is. I could show you pictures in high school. I mean, you know, my kids are like, Mom, when did you have blonde hair? I'm like, never. I just highlighted the shit out of it, you know, because there was like one standard of beauty. You had to look a certain way or you were not attractive. That was the message. Whether that's the message they were intending, I'm not gonna say, you know, I don't know what someone's intentions are, but that was definitely the message that was received. And you can see that in the way that we were all trying to look, right?

Casting Characters By Hair Color

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Right. Um and I think that influenced us too because rightly or wrongly, like a person's, and we'll just take on like hair color and complexion, their characters were also reflective of those types of roles. Like if I 9021, I lived and died by 90210. I still want Kelly Taylor to be, you know what I mean? Your best friends, one of my best friends. A hundred percent. They know. Um, but the I know, right? Like I said, one. Um, but whenever I look back at the show, it was like Kelly and Donna, and they were mostly like the nice ones or whatever. And if I look at like Brenda or Valerie, or you know what I mean, they're all the dark girls. They look like me. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

You know, they were the we were the Corella devil bitchy one, right? Right. If you had dark hair, it came with like this sense of like you were the evil bitchy one. That's a great way to put it. Brenda, she kind of came in with that like bad girl energy, and it was, it was very much being portrayed. And watching that back, like it really dawned on me for the first time that that's really the message that we were internalizing. It makes so much sense to me now. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

And I never would have thought that that was my influence. I just thought I liked that thing. But I think it was because of the fact that, you know, unconsciously, I was being told that me being dark is not it's not the preference. It's not society's preference, it's not pretty.

Body Image And Brand Power

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Well, and think about like, you know, Abercrombie and Fitch, like the bags, you remember? You know, all the models look the same. They were all rail thin. Like, you know, my body never looked like that. And so I'm like, no wonder all these 40-year-old women, I'm laughing. It's not really funny, but I'm like, no wonder we all had body issues growing up. No wonder it has been like a constant battle of trying to remind ourselves that, you know, we're beautiful the way God made us. I say that to my daughter all the time. I'm like, everybody's different. That's what makes us unique and cool and fun. And it, you know, this is just the way we were made. We don't need to look like other people, or you know, but I'm almost like saying those same things to myself because it's hard. I'm never gonna be 5'8. Hell, I'm not even gonna be five five, you know, but I don't think as a teenager I realized that that's why my body didn't look like theirs, because they had like, you know, five to seven inches on me. And like I was just never gonna look like that unless I, you know, did something drastically unhealthy.

A Near-Model Path And Limits

SPEAKER_01 13:04

No, that's a hundred percent true. You know, I remember um I loved modeling. I always loved doing that kind of stuff, even whenever I was a kid. Loved makeup, like all the things. I think I was in ninth grade whenever I saw in the back of a 17 magazine that you could like send your photo in. A 17 was huge. I had like Nikki Taylor on my walls, you know, like whenever her sister died from an asthma attack, I was like devastated. Um, yeah. And so I remember applying out to this like modeling thing, and I remember the picture I sent in. It was my ninth grade cheerleading picture because it made me look like I had long legs. And so I'm five, five. And but in that, I I do have long legs, but I have a very short torso torso. And so I sent it off. I actually got a call back from it. Got you, I had to do an interview, I had to submit other pictures, they had to talk to my parents, like it was this whole big thing. And they wanted me to come out to this house in Texas. It was actually through, I think, like Ford or something. I had to go to a doctor's office where they projected what my height was gonna be. And they hoped that I would make it to five seven. Homegirl tapped out at five five. So then it's like, you know what I mean? You can't, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Sarah couldn't leave town because I was I was gonna try to steal her boyfriend the minute she turned her back.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

There's there that was also the case. Best friends still I had to stay. The boy is mine.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Oh, good selfie. Where's that at? Jesus. Right. Uh it is it is actually a miracle that we stayed friends uh through high school, after high school, like you know, because we did. We liked the same guy for years. Um but yeah, you know, we did, we did tend to or we got over it, right? Funny that we're both married to men named Jeff, though, I have to say. That always cracked me up. It is hilarious. So you got you actually got called to be a model and turned it down. But like imagine had you gone down that path, like how different life could have been. I know.

Cruelty As Entertainment

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Two inches would have made all the difference. But you know, what else would that have changed? You know, but at the I'm 40 something years old and I'm still chasing that dream, you know what I mean? I've walked in Fashion Week. I have um been on the catwalks, I've mc'd, so I've been behind the scenes. And so some of the things that they portrayed on the show, I mean, I did two seasons of it, so I can um I can relate to the intensity that happens in those um areas, but also it's one of those things where you know what you're kind of signing up for.

Retraining Self Talk

SPEAKER_00 15:48

And I get that, and I think they make that point on the documentary too of like, you knew when you got into fashion, like there was a certain standard of like size and stuff like that. I think it's just the way that they felt so comfortably talking down to women um on national television and the way they could just dissect their bodies. And I don't know, it was just it was ugly it had a real sleaze factor to it. And I'm not saying that, I mean, clearly like kids would make comments and things like that. I'm not saying that like that wasn't happening in real life at our schools. Um, but it just like on national television, like my heart broke watching some of that, watching what some of those girls went through. And um, you could tell, I think, in the ones that they interview that um it's had some real lasting impact on them. And, you know, I think that's true for a lot of women that grew up on these shows and listening to women be talked to that way, or listening to the way that, you know, people would interview Britney Spears or Christina Christina Aguilera, you know, and same thing. They Jessica Simpson, like she's another one, and she's written about this in her book, but like they felt so confident and comfortable talking about these young, young women's bodies on a national platform or international platform. And it just I don't know, it just it's a real ick factor for me. Um, it just made me sad. I'm sad for all of us little girls that were given this um idea that like this is what you have to look like to be considered pretty um in this world.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Yeah, and I would love to sit here and say that that stuff has changed, but I mean, we're not that far removed from it right now. You know, why are we still talking about women based upon their physical features instead of their intellectual attributes? Or if we're going to talk about their physical features, then can we at least have a little bit of candor to it?

Parenting In The Screen Era

SPEAKER_00 17:55

It's not that it's gone away or that it's changed. I mean, it's still, you know, a topic of conversation on a lot of broadcasts. And I think for me, when um, you know, uh like to me, I'm like, okay, how do we do better? How do we not subject our kids to this? And so, like we've watched a lot of the Olympics, you know, you see all different shapes and sizes of athletes out there and their respective sports. And, you know, I did appreciate that there wasn't a conversation about their bodies, other than to say like the work they had put in to, you know, just talk about like how at a different level they are athletically. But it wasn't anyone saying, she's quite a bit bigger than the other figure skaters, or she's got a different, you know, whatever. But it just to me, I'm like, okay, just really being cognizant that a we're not making comments like that, even if it's about like a famous person and they come out on the stage to sing a song, like not saying like, oh, she's put on weight, or oh, she yeah, whatever, oh, she's too thin. I mean, I think that's even a little dangerous to you know, just feel so free to comment on people's bodies.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yes, I think that's a great point. I I think most of the time we don't even realize that could be hurtful, put it that way. But you know, my body's changed within the last year. Like our bodies train change, but based upon what we're doing and what we're adapting to. And focusing on the activities that we're doing is better than focusing on the size, shape, or anything else that comes along with it. Now, when it ventures into something unhealthy, at some point there are health standards and health behaviors that need to be modified in order to be the best version of yourself. And that just is what it is.

Intent, Accountability, And Industry

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Well, I mean, if women are anything like me, it has taken decades of retraining our thinking. And I mean, it's something I still have to really work at. Like, no, I don't talk, we don't talk to ourselves that way. Like, I have to say those mantras almost to myself, like right now, I'm about to get my period, I'm bloated, I'm like, oh, I've been doing all the things. I've been working out, I've been like eating really healthy, and then, but I feel heavier today, you know, and it's like, nope, we don't talk about ourselves that way. This part of your cycle, you know, you've got some extra water weight, like just, but I'm 43 years old. I shouldn't have to remind myself of this at this point. Um, it just goes to show how hard it is to undo something that is so ingrained. You know, it's like when kids practice um something incorrectly, like addition, and they practice incorrectly and in over and over again, is 10 times harder to correct versus teaching someone initially and then monitoring and making sure that they're doing it correctly before you set them on their way. It's the same thing. I mean, we practiced that negative self-talk for so long that it's so natural for us. It's it's taken, you know, I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm over it yet. Like it's taking decades to undo all of that negative talk. Um yeah.

What We’re Still Being Sold

SPEAKER_01 21:08

And it happens at such a critical period of time. And I think that that's why it makes it so ingrained is that, you know, during that adolescence, you know, early 20 time is really whenever we're shaping into our own kind of identity and forming thoughts about who we are. Like we're always asked in high school, like, what do you want to be? Like there's this pressure to really, you know, have on yourself. And there's so much rapid change happening within a short period of time that it's hard for us to then adjust to all those changes as they're happening. And that's not fair either, you know, because that then just compounds that negative thinking process. And we don't even know that we're doing it. No one knows that they're engaging those negative self comparisons until somebody says something to you, and like those bulls. Clean words and stuff like that that happened at that point in time. I mean, hell, we were still talking about that at our 25th high school reunion. Yeah. I'll talk about it again right now. Um because that because that stuff just stays with you. And I don't know that it, I don't know. Honestly, I don't even know if it's healthy for it to be discharged because it's a piece of who we are, but I think it is important for us to be mindful of when we're starting to go on those paths.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Hopefully, those of us raising daughters are doing things differently and kind of protecting them or at least um correcting if we're hearing or seeing those types of things. Uh, because I don't remember anyone correcting us. And I'm that's not a diss to our parents. I don't honestly, like, I don't even think they realized the message that we were internalizing. Um, I mean, they weren't reading 17 Magazine, they weren't watching America's Next Top Model with us. I like to think that we now being moms are so aware um that we're doing a better job of just, you know, looking out for it and then correcting it. And, you know, as my daughter gets into those teenage years, really paying attention to the kind of shows that she's watching and the message that's being portrayed in those shows. Yeah.

Watch, Reflect, And Reach Out

SPEAKER_01 23:12

It's just so the problem is now, I think, is that it's not even on shows anymore because everything is on phones, it's on reels. Oh, at the point. I think that it's easier for us to monitor like the big screens. And even when we're doing our absolute best to monitor on the little screens, it is still such a challenge to really stay in tune with all of it, you know?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

And it's a great point, Sarah. Like, I don't even think about like the online presence because I just I just have decided as of now my kids will never be on social media. No, just kidding. But at least not for a long time. And um, so yeah, like that thought had not really even crossed my mind. But you're right, it's like it's the YouTube content, it's TikTok. We in our day and age right now, um, tend to over-protect our kids physically and under-protect them electronically. We feel like they're safe because we have some parent controls on some things or whatever it is that we make sure that they're like overly protected um in the physical world. And I think that was probably some truth uh in our youth as well, right? Our parents were pretty protective, at least mine were, as far as like if I went out into the world, I had a curfew, I had to be back at a certain time, they had to know where I was. I had their, they called the other kids' parents, you know, those types of things. Um, but what I was watching on TV was sort of like free reign. And so that under protection of like what the information and the content that that was coming through.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

I hear so often people saying, I mean, we've even talked about it. Like, I don't want him to have a sleepover, I don't want him to like go out in this thing. I don't want him to go to a babysitter or to X, Y, and Z. Fantastic. They're missing out on some world experiences, perhaps by doing that. You might be keeping them safe, but what are you giving them instead? This? That's not it.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yeah, you know, that's not the solution. My takeaway from that whole uh documentary. I had the same feelings. I felt like Tyra Banks was super guarded, um, defensive, didn't really answer the tough questions, or like just had like an air about her. Um, whereas the others were just kind of like, yeah, this we were wrong. Like that was wrong. We should not have put that, we shouldn't have put them in these situations. At least they were like taking some accountability. And I think that's all anybody really wants. Like, yeah, we messed up. I mean, we said it at our high school reunion, reading back our senior wills, but things we were saying and calling each other, you know, um it it just was like it wasn't such the faux pas back then that it is now. And so I I like the way you frame that of like looking at, you know, it's not really fair to look at it through the 2026 lens.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

I think that the initial intention to show diversity was beautiful. And I think it's still, I think that she did make a statement that she's right that if you look at the runways of today versus whenever she was even doing the show, they have changed. And I do believe that that is very much because of what she started to talk about, what she started to promote and what she started to do. Um, some of the contestants were positive about their experiences, some of them were very hurt by their experiences, and rightfully so. And I think that whenever you step into that industry, it it is important to know what you're stepping into. And if I just think it's you have to, you know, I if I were to sign up to play baseball, if I were to sign up to go into the military or into a first responder situation, I'm I can't sit there and complain that now I'm in the swamps and I might have to kill somebody. I signed up for this. You know, you sign up for certain things based upon what the job duties are. You don't meet criteria, you don't meet criteria. I can't fly a plane. I'm diabetic. Okay. I will not be flying a Delta flight anytime soon. But I love to sure. I just think you you gotta remember at the at the base sometimes what you're signing up for, but then make sure that you're signing up for it ethically. And where the show took off in the wrong direction was making it about a show instead of an opportunity, is what I feel like. If they would have stayed focused on the opportunity, that would have been great. But our culture likes to watch train wrecks. That's what makes people famous, is train wrecks.

unknown 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

You know, you think about like stuff up even like the American Idol and the way that Simon Cow used to talk to the contestants. And, you know, it just, I think more it was um again, it just goes back to like the way that we were treating people. That's fine if you have to meet a certain criteria, but you don't have to be mean to people. And that should have never been like acceptable because it almost gave this like right to other people, right? Like you could see someone on the street and not like what they're wearing, and I could tell you I didn't like that. Like, it just is not necessary. If we're all trying to like be better humans and and lead with love and right, love and light, then that's not the way to go about it, is you know, just pointing out all the things we don't like about the people around us. Um and so I mean, I think that's just like the ick factor for me. I agree with you that her intent for the show was good. However, it also showcases how um at the end of the day, the person paying for it has the final answer and they weren't ready to showcase what her intention was. And you know, I think that if you've ever worked in a professional setting, particularly if it was something you really cared about and you got into it for the right reasons, and we have all been put in that position where you knew what the right thing to do was, but whoever was controlling the purse strings had the final say and you had to roll with it. And I did have some empathy, I guess, on some level for that. Um, but still take accountability. I mean, I think that just at the end of the day, for me, there's no accountability on her part, and that's what left me a little salty with her. Um, but you know, she's a human and she's probably I'm guessing by now she's watched it and reflected, and maybe she's like, damn, I wish I would have said, yeah, that was not okay. Um, or I would do things differently, or maybe I, you know, whatever. She's probably had some time to reflect on that too. But very interesting to watch now um these shows, you know, like even watching that, I was like, Yeah, I think. You know, we are being sold some stuff. I'm like, no freaking wonder we have we've been dealing with this for so long. But you're so right about the social media piece. Like that is part of what's shaping today's kids, what they're seeing and and being sold on social media. Just a a thing, a real thinker there for all the parents, as if we need anything else to think about. But yeah, if you haven't watched the documentary, highly recommend, especially if you grew up on that show, give it a gander. Uh, give us your thoughts. We'd love to hear it. Check us out on our social media. If you have ideas for topics, we are always open to it. So um send us a message. You can send it straight from our website. You can go on Facebook, Instagram, the Lilas Podcast. And uh, I think that's all we got for this week, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah. Tune into the Next Top Model documentary series, and then every week for the Liless Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

That's right. Till next time, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Lilas.