The Hidden Face Of Domestic Violence with Special Guest Sara Blevins

Domestic violence can be happening right next to us while looking completely “normal” from the outside, and that’s one reason it’s so hard to spot and even harder to talk about. We sit down with Sara Blevins, a domestic violence advocate and Director of Development at Branches Domestic Violence Shelter in West Virginia, to unpack what abuse actually looks like when it’s driven by power and control, not just physical harm. If you’ve ever wondered how someone can seem polished, successful, and steady while living in fear, this conversation connects the dots without blame or oversimplified answers.

We dig into safety planning and why there’s no one-size-fits-all formula for leaving an abusive relationship. Sara explains how advocates think through real-life barriers like children, pets, hidden documents, limited money, and shifting risks. We also talk about why leaving often takes multiple attempts, how isolation is used to cut off support networks, and how the power and control wheel helps people name patterns like gaslighting, coercive control, and intimidation. One piece that hits especially hard: financial abuse can be the cage, from sabotaged credit to bills run up in a survivor’s name.

We also make space for hope. Sara shares what “the other side” can look like when survivors connect with shelter services, legal advocacy, and longer-term housing support, plus what friends and family can do to stay supportive without trying to control the outcome. If you want concrete ways to help, we cover options from donating and volunteering to simply learning the signs and sharing resources. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the one thing you want every person to understand about domestic violence.

Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com

Transcript

Domestic Violence Can Affect Anyone

SPEAKER_00 0:12

All right. Well, welcome to the Liless Podcast. We have a very special guest. We've told you the last couple of weeks we've had amazing guests, and today we're just going to keep grinding with another amazing guest. This is a highly requested topic and something we've never talked about in the last five plus seasons of the Liless Podcast. And so we're very excited to have Sarah Blevins. She is a domestic violence advocate. She's currently the director of development at Branches Domestic Violence Shelter in West Virginia. And so welcome to the Liless Podcast, Sarah. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here today with you guys. I know this is a heavy topic, right? But something I just kind of like when I was thinking this morning, I was like, okay, what are some questions that come to mind? And, you know, I was like, I don't have a ton of experience with this. I've obviously worked with kids and who have been in maybe these situations, but personally I don't have a ton of experience. And then I started thinking back and I was like, maybe I do have some experience from previous relationships. And and one that really stands out to me is I I had a colleague one time, this woman, very beautiful, in a very she was in a marriage, um, husband was very well respected and in sort of a powerful position locally. And um, yeah, one day she came to work and said, I'm leaving and here's why. And she just unloaded all of this uh violent, domestic violence she had been experiencing for years. And when I tell you, I was floored. I mean, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor because she had never presented, I mean, she was so polished, so put together, really good at her job. And um, yeah, it just it that was the first time I thought, wow, this really does hit all socioeconomic statuses. Would you agree? Because obviously you have, you've met many survivors. It kind of transcends all social statuses, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Well, yeah, absolutely. I when you were when you were telling that story, I was thinking, oh, wow, what a familiar story to us. Because we um we think very frequently about um what our community, what our society thinks that a survivor of domestic violence looks like, how they think that they're gonna present. And honestly, they're almost universally wrong. It's it's usually um exactly what you described, someone very well put together, someone very polished. Um, I I sometimes joke about this. It's it's not really a joke, but you know what I mean. Um those these survivors are often the PR managers of their relationship, of their narrative. And so they are protecting this abusive partner sometimes by creating a narrative that no one would know. And um I I think that that feeling of surprise is very common for friends and family. And and that's not the case for every person, of course, but I think it very frequently is. And then I do want to go back and speak to what you were saying about um no demographic. So personally, I think this is something that makes domestic violence one of the most insidious societal health problems that we have. It can affect absolutely anybody of any social class, any race, any um gender orientation, any of those things, because it simply is one person trying to have power and control over another. And so, because of that, anyone is susceptible to it. So, yeah, it can show up in any place that people are living.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah, that's such a great point. What do you wish? I know you said it kind of transit transcends demographics, but what do you wish people really understood or maybe misunderstand about domestic violence besides the fact that it trans transcends all demographics?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Well, I think this is such a great question. Um, so there's a couple of things that I see all the time and that I really wish that more people understood or had more um just more knowledge of, I guess. One thing is the understanding, the insight that domestic violence is not a person's only story. It is not like that, okay, they're dealing with domestic violence, and that is the crux of their narrative. That is what's going to define them for the rest of their life. So domestic violence is happening to mothers, it's happening to single women, it's happening to young men, it's happening to teachers, it's happening to everyone that you can imagine. And so those aspects of their life are no less important and also make a huge difference in the way that they respond to that domestic violence and also the way that they escape it. A person who makes a lot of money is gonna have more options or resources than someone who doesn't. And so their safety plan has to look very different. So I think that one thing I wish more people understood is that um there is no formula for helping someone leave domestic violence. It has to be what works for them and it has to include their whole experience.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Such a great point when you think about individualizing um their their plan, right? Of how they're going to escape this um this violent situation. So, and so how do you kind of like offer guidance or guide them through this while also like giving them that autonomy, right? They have to make the decisions for themselves. So, how do you sort of lead them through this decision decision-making process? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

I think that's a great question because I have to tell you, um, advocates do something constantly that we simply call safety planning. And so that, and anybody can help someone safety plan, but advocates are maybe have a little more training in it and know what to look for. But like, um, let me give you kind of a for example. If a person calls the hotline and they are immediately requesting shelter, they need to get out of their situation right away, which, you know, comma aside, is not everyone's situation. Sometimes they're just kind of exploring what options are out there. But let's just say for the sake of argument that this person is ready to leave. The first thing that that advocate is gonna do is to start building a personalized safety plan with them. So they're gonna ask questions like, hey, um, do you have a way of putting aside some money? Do you have a backpack that you can put your medications, your documents, your ID, your birth certificate in? Do you have access to those documents? Has your partner hidden those from you or taken those from you? Um, do you have a family member that you want to stay with or do you need to come to our shelter? So we're gonna start building that, right? Um, when I train, and I do an awful lot of training in the community. Um, we can talk a little bit more about that later, about how you can contact me to come train your staff or your organization. Um when I train, I often talk about the idea that in addition to safety planning in that moment, again, we are dealing with people's lives. So our safety plan has to evolve with that person. Great example of that might be that you talk to a woman one day and say, Hey, well, you're all ready to go. Great, we've got your safety plan in place. They call the next morning and they say, Hey, I just found out I'm pregnant. Well, now their safety plan is completely different. And so we need to be able to respond to that. Um, so again, just uh that personal touch, that individualized care is really important when you're dealing with domestic violence.

Safety Planning For Real Life Barriers

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Yeah, I remember working in clinic, um, doing that whole safety planning kind of process, and with a few patients that I had that were within the crux of it, and it was there were two factors that always seemed to uh kind of keep the situation at status quo. It was either children or they had a pet. And within those two different situations, you have a completely and totally different plan or a another layer of entrapment almost with those two different situations, is what it seemed like. So can you speak to that? Like, cause that just is a totally different kind of approach and game changer with this.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Absolutely. So I think it's really important to realize that um those two examples that you gave children and pets, they are very frequently, and and um I would just say a very quick trigger warning if this is if you're a listener and you are um experiencing this, this might feel very heavy and it's okay to walk away from that. But um, it's really important to acknowledge that kids and pets are some of the greatest tools of the abusive party. They love to use those two um entities to manipulate the situation. Um, I say all the time, I've been doing this work for a really long time, and I have heard people causing harm threaten everything that you can imagine. Pets, kids, family members themselves. They they will threaten everything. And um again, just another piece that's really important. We often are dismissive of a survivor's very valid fear. They, these are people that have followed up on those threats. They have, they have been physically violent, they have been sexually violent. So they're they our survivors are living with very valid fear that something could happen to their children or their pets. And so, um, so again, just remembering that these are um emotional attachments to things that have very real threat against them.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, it's it you can understand why, you know, you think, well, just walk away, right? Just walk away. If somebody's harming you and they're not treating you the way you think you should be treated or that you demand to be treated, but if someone's threatening someone that you you care about, then you're you're gonna say, well, okay, I can I can figure a way around this, maybe, or I can hold on a little bit longer. And I think correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of times they might make that initial getaway, but then they they sometimes end up back in that circumstance. So it's not always like short-term safety, but do you do you also kind of play the long game, that long-term safety plan of how you're going to get everybody you love safe? Is that part of your planning? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Um, I do want to speak to that very quickly. Um, national statistics tell us that actually someone is going to try to leave nine times before they're successful. They will go back and forth nine times before they are successful and leaving. Um, one of the things I love the most about branches, which is um the local domestic violence program that serves the um Cabill, Mason, Wayne, Lincoln, and Putnam counties in West Virginia. Um, again, you may be listening from a different part of the state. The state of West Virginia has coverage or a shelter for every county in the state. We're very blessed to have that. But um, but for my purposes, I work locally and we work in those five counties. Um, however, one of the things I love the most about branches is that we never turn somebody away based on how many times they've accessed services.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

So I have been working with the same client, for example, for close to 10 years, but they are still trying to leave that situation. And that's okay. We understand that. We understand that there are factors that might pull you back. Um, something that can be really hard to understand, but it really stays with me. I um was working with a client one time and they said, you know, um, the legal system, the law enforcement system, they're failing me in this. They can't guarantee my protection. And and we have some really good legal remedies. You can file a domestic violence petition, but that doesn't work for everybody. And um they they said, you know, it's it's just I'm I've been away, I'm I'm in shelter, but I have to go back because I cannot continue to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life. When I was there, at least I could see what was coming. At least I knew where he was all the time. And so that really stayed with me. Like that, that is very understandable to me, to be able to see the threat rather than having to be in fear of it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Wow. That's such a great point.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah, that's so powerful. You know, you kind of touched on this when you said that it's there's different types of we tend to think of domestic violence as physical violence, right? But it's emotional violence, right? It can be sexual violence. And so what would you say most people, when they're ready to leave, is it typically from, you know, years of emotional abuse? Is it typ, you know, is it like once it turns physical, then then is it or is there some sort of pattern or just, you know, people they're like enough's enough. I've got to, I've got to get myself out of this.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

You know, I think that people's motivations are as varied as their experiences in this. It would be very hard to pinpoint something. Um, sometimes it's the birth of a child. They they don't want their child to be in that situation, so they'll they'll remove themselves from that situation. Um, sometimes it is enough's enough. Sometimes it is, I mean, I've seen people be in domestic violence situations and get themselves out of it before it became physical. It just depends on um, well, to be frank, I think it depends somewhat on your level of education. Okay. If you um are taught very early on what to look for and know what um you value in a relationship, uh, one of the cool things that we do is we have really good curriculum for young people that we provide. We go into schools and do different things like that. And one of the things we ask them that is kind of surprising is that we when we work with young people, we say, hey, what do you value in a relationship? What do you want from a partner? And um asking them to be able to do that, even as young as 14 and 15 years old, it allows them to say, This is what I will accept, and this is what I will not accept in a relationship. And I think that um, and I'm only speaking from my own experience and my own generation, but I think many women from my generation from my time, we weren't taught to look in that direction. And um, and many of us even were taught that any attention from a partner was positive attention.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

And um, and that's just not true. Yeah, especially for our generation. I'm gonna guess we're all the same age, and and that's sort of how we were just brought up, right? It's uh and people pleasing, right? We just wanted everybody to be happy, uh, you know, keep everything homeostasis. What are some other non-physical forms of abuse that people may not recognize or may not even realize is happening?

Financial Abuse And Coercive Control

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Oh, I could go on about this for days. So, one of the number one um forms that I love to talk about because people miss it so easily is the absolute prevalence of financial abuse. Financial abuse is so prevalent. Um, in fact, a few years ago, the Allstate Foundation did a survey, did a study, and this is not an exaggeration. The statistic is not exaggerated. Of the survivors that they surveyed, which were literally thousands, 99% of them said that financial abuse was some component of their domestic violence experience. And if you think about it, it makes absolute sense. What's what better way to have control over someone than to control their finances, than to control their ability to um be able to leave? So let me tell you how that let me give you some examples of how that might play out. So a lot of people will think, oh, financial abuse, that just means either not allowing them to work or controlling their paycheck. And of course, that is part of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

But other examples can be really insidious. Um, running up a huge utility bill in somebody's name so that they can't move or that they can't afford to be able to pay down a utility bill and open it somewhere else. That that's an example. Um, sabotaging someone's credit is really, really common as a financial abuse tactic. Um and I will say this we used to see a lot more of the abusive party just would not allow someone to work that they would force them to rely on them. Yeah. But I think, and this is a little dark, but I think with as the economy has changed, nobody can afford to do that.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

So um what we see more now is you have to work and then give me complete control of the finances.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Wow, that's such a great point. Cause I I wasn't thinking that. I was thinking emotional abuse, you know, something like not physical. You tend to think of more of like that emotional abuse, but didn't even think about the financial aspect. And then, you know, as just listening to you talk, I'm pinging all the stories or people I know where I've heard things. I'm like, yep, I can think of somebody that was in that exact situation where it was a financial, like, didn't even truly think about that as being a form of domestic violence. Um, such a great point. Do you find that, you know, and I again just from very limited like stories I've heard friends of friends, that like their friends get burnt out. They know they're experiencing this abuse and they want them to do something. They want to help them, but they're not seemingly doing anything to get out of the situation. And friends and family kind of get, for lack of a better phrase, like tired of it, tired of hearing about it, tired of, you know, trying to support somebody that doesn't seem to want help.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

This is one of my very favorite things to talk about. And the reason that I want to talk about it is that I want to bring up um, I've I've been kind of going around the ring at in this conversation, but let me explain clearly. When we are working with clients, we use a tool called the power and control wheel. There's, and you can Google this, it's so good, like so easy to Google. You just look up the power and control wheel. And what it is, is it's a demonstration, it's a paper demonstration of power and control in the center, right? And then all of the ways that people cause harm circling it. And then that structure is um held in place by physical and sexual violence, right? And so we use this all the time. And I mentioned, for example, financial abuse. That's in the power and control wheel. This next one that I'm gonna mention is also in the power and control wheel. So a very favorite tactic of a person causing harm in a relationship is something that we call isolation. And so, um, and we see this over and over and over again. So as soon as that person is, let's just use the word hooked into the relationship, yeah, the abusive partner is gonna start trying to isolate you from your friends, family, and emotional support networks. They're gonna start trying to drive the wedge. And so, um, when I talk to young people, I mention this very specifically. They might say something along the lines of, I don't want you telling your best friend about our relationship because it's private and they don't like me. That is a very clear method of trying to drive a wedge between you and your friends. And it's very obvious what, like, why wouldn't they try to drive a wedge between you and the people that are going to be the first to say, hey, this is a bad scene. Yeah. Right? Like they do this with parents in particular. They try really hard to get you away from your family. And then I I think I would be remiss if I didn't just mention this very briefly. In our community, particularly in West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, isolation can also be geographic isolation. We see people literally take their partner out into the middle of Lincoln County and take the keys. That's geographic isolation. You can't you can't leave if you don't have the keys, right? Um so, but typically when we talk about isolation, we're actually talking about the intentional stripping of emotional support networks. So now I want to come back to your point, Jenny. You said, do you often see that you know people get tired or burnout? Yes, absolutely. It's exhausting and terrifying to have someone that you love domestic violence.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

But the thing that really bothers me about that is that that means that that abusive person wins.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

I I have seen I have seen people um try to reconnect with parents after 10 or 15 years of a DV situation. And it is so emotional and so difficult for them because the parents can't understand why they didn't just leave. The the person can't understand, like the parent person can't convince them of the psychological hold that that partner had on them. And so there's this huge rift. And it becomes really, really hard to repair those relationships post-DV situation. Um, that's why, as an advocate, I always recommend, and I just say this flat out, I say this to my friends, all of the people in my life. You cannot advocate for your family member because you want to shake them. You want to say, What are you doing? Stop it. And so then that's controlling and that's just gonna make them scared to tell you what's going on. And so the best thing that you can do for your friend or family member is to get them connected to an advocate as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Even if they're not ready to make a move. Um, okay. Well, so let me rephrase. The idea is that you keep offering the option. They may not be ready. They might it's gonna take forever, right? And it is really painful if they are not ready. And and even worse, if you know it's happening and they won't even tell you about it. And and that that happens quite frequently. Um, in that case, and you're just gonna have to allow me permission to nerd out a little bit, okay? So I'm a little bit I'm a little bit of a neuroscience nerd. I think neuroplasticity is the closest thing to magic that we have. Absolutely preach. Yeah, and so. So one thing that I always recommend that friends and family do for their loved ones is that you have to remember or keep in your mind that domestic violence, mental abuse, is trying to change that person's brain. It's trying to make them believe the worst about themselves. It's it is intentionally trying to change that person's brain. And so the simplest and hardest advice is that you can be a great help to your friend by being a good friend, by saying, I think you deserve better. I think that you are a great person. I know the kind of person that you are. You are helping them rewrite those neural pathways and strengthening the ones they already have. Um so yeah, I like to nerd out a little bit, but um very simple treat. The best thing that you can do for your friend if they're not ready to disclose is to keep reminding them of who they are and what they deserve in

Supporting Loved Ones Without Taking Over

SPEAKER_03 22:56

their relationship.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

And would it help too if we were able to give them some guidance as to what they can expect when they do reach out to an advocate? I mean, because I can just imagine being in those shoes and being like, well, we're gonna get you connected with here. Well, then what's that going to do? You know, what's the next step from there? So, what could we include in our messaging that could help to kind of fill in some of those gaps to them so that way they are more empowered with information to make that decision, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Well, thank you so much for allowing men this very clear segue to uh promote our podcast. But we um we operate a podcast called Root for Each Other. And one of the things that we use that podcast for is just essentially information dumping so that a survivor can like listen to an episode in with their headphones. They don't have to announce that they're doing it. Um we have an episode that is just what to expect when you call the hotline so that they can get all of that information right there on their own and their like process it on their own. And then, of course, that always leads to our website, to an email to an advocate if you have further questions. And then we always um one thing that you can do is just encourage them to call. They don't have to be ready to like pack it up and go when they call the first time. They can just talk to an advocate and say, Hey, I kind of think this might be going on, but I I just can't tell you how many times I this phrase always comes up. I've talked to a survivor and they've said, Well, this has been happening in my relationship, but I'm not sure if it counts. So, like that that happens all the time. And so we can just say, Hey, yeah, like that's on a power control wheel, and and you have every right to be feeling this way about it. Like, so it's um it's a stair step. You can you can help them stair step into actually leaving.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah. I I think that that's such a great point because so many people are just always like, I don't, is it bad enough for me to go? Is it bad enough for me to leave? Like, does this meet the criteria? And it's just it's so unsettling that we would have to ask what amount of abuse is okay to have to endure before it meets some type of preconceived marker that it's actually domestic violence and that it's time for us to go.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

I'll tell you something else we run into that your words reminded me of. Um, and I have always chalked this up to just being, we operate in Appalachia. And um, in our Appalachian community has a really hard time wanting to take help from somebody else. So what we hear all the time is something along the lines of, well, I can get through it, but somebody else might need those services. I might be taking somebody's place in the shelter that really needs it. And for us, it's very clear that they need it.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, we're so good at like comparing our situation. You're like, well, it could always be worse, right? It could always be this situation that I've heard of. But I, you know, like I was just thinking back to like, like I said, the very small experience I had with a boyfriend where I those exact thoughts went through my head. I'm like, I don't know if this is actual abuse. He hasn't technically hit me, but he's hit the wall several times and he's called me everything. Like you just, you're like, I'm not really sure what this is, but it certainly doesn't feel right. And um, and then you get, you know, my case got some space, was, you know, um, and you're like, wow, that actually that was problematic and probably could have turned into something a little bit more aggressive over time. Would you say in your experience that it does kind of start slow? Um, the way when someone is is, you know, starting abuse, they they may not come right out and start being physical or sexual, but maybe in like some small way, and then it just sort of grows over time. Is that something that you you come across?

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Oh my goodness. So again, straight from one of my trainings when I train about dynamics of DV, um, I always say this, and it everybody laughs, but it's so true. Nobody comes up to you and says, Hey, I'm a terrible human, you should date me. Right. No one does that. Right, right, right. So um, in fact, what they do is quite the opposite. They typically will try to present themselves as exactly what you want. And so let me give you a great example of that. If you are a person that says, Oh, I really want someone who's gonna be very good to my children, an abusive person who is looking for someone to be able to control might model themselves as a really great parental figure, right? They might really go above and beyond with your kids originally in the very beginning. And so then what happens is that we start to normalize the abuse over time. And this is another point that I like to make that I think is really important. We have to be really careful of our societal mindset that survivors or victims are weak. I've never met a weak survivor, not once in all of my years. And so what we find is that they're psychologically, this has become normal to them. And the way that that happens is by a slow, gradual progression. And so um, I'm just gonna kind of verbally run through a little example of that. So um you might have a situation where somebody is, you know, got they've got the mask on, they're being great, they're a great parent, all of that, right? And then they're gonna start with very subtle critiques. They're gonna start by being very critical, right? And then maybe they try to embarrass you in front of all your friends when you're out together. And then maybe that person comes home and says, Hey, I didn't like the way you talked to me. And you know what they're gonna do then? They're gonna automatically flip the script. They're gonna be like, You can't take a joke. You're just so sensitive. All of those things, like um, say all of those ways that we minimize people's val or feelings. Um, and so then the more that you quote, pester them, the more that you talk to them about it, the the harder that they're gonna fight against it until eventually you're just so tired of talking about it that you allow it. And it progresses from there all the way up to physical violence. That's one scenario. It's not always that way, but that's one way that it becomes normalized.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah, it's like that grooming process that almost takes place, and you again just become so unaware or it's very easy to fall underneath the uh charm of a snake, right? Um, and just to kind of find yourself lost and isolated within that situation um from all of that. And they're masters at manipulation, they're masters at gaslighting. It it's all of the things that um we hear about, but then whenever we actually see it as happening to us or to a good friend, it still has this veil of shock that keeps us almost from responding or even knowing how to respond whenever it's that case. And uh, I mean, some of that could just be wow, is this denial, misinformation, the isolation, lack of resources, all of the things just kind of combine into one very like heavy situation that almost feels insurmountable, I'm sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, and I imagine uh you probably have met many women that all of a sudden they're in it, right? They everything that we've talked about so far, like they're like check, check, check, but they're so in it at that point. And then there comes like that, I'm just guessing like that feeling of like shame of almost like, how did I let this happen? How did I let this spiral to this, you know, not as if they did something, but that's just how we are as women, as people pleasers. Uh, we think, you know, that we're responsible for everybody's behavior around us, that that we have some sort of magical voodoo that we could control it. Um and so that I mean, I'm just I'm thinking that's, you know, that those would be kind of those initial thoughts of like, shit, how did I not see this coming?

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, and then also I just want to I want you to keep in mind, listeners, that it is very beneficial to the person causing harm for you to feel that way. Right. So they're gonna promote and encourage you to blame yourself for everything that happens. Um now, um I this is probably a different podcast, but there's also the problem of our society that wants to find reasons the victim is at fault, right? Um, so you have all of those things compounding that it's very easy to be paralyzed with a fear of self-blame or with a feeling of self-blame, but um, that only benefits the person causing harm. It doesn't help anyone else in a situation.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

I love that you said that really. Um, you know, it really is just that that benefiting the perpetrator. It's not and it is our own internal, you know, that's just like again, like you can only hear so much negative before you start to believe it about yourself. And so, I mean, part of that is that I don't want to call it brainwashing, but just like you said, like they have built that that their brain is is literally changing um if they've been experiencing this for any for any amount of time. Yeah, exactly.

What Healing Can Look Like After

SPEAKER_02 31:59

All right, well, I have to just want to switch gears for this just for a moment because there is hope in this. There is the light at the end of the tunnel whenever um people leave that situation. Can you give us some examples just to hopefully inspire people that might find themselves within the darkness of all of this? Like what does it actually tangibly look like on the other side?

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Um, absolutely. I'm so glad that you uh did kind of make this turn because I want to be very clear that people leave and are successful and have great peaceful lives all the time. We we help them do it. We we've seen all kinds of different lives really just bloom after this experience. And so um, it's not the end. I want to be very clear about that. Um I will tell you one of my favorite stories, or I'll tell you two of my favorite stories. But um, one of my favorite stories right now is um, and and again, I I want to be very clear, this is very heavy-handed in telling you what branches does, but that's intentional. I want you to know what branches do. Um, so we had a person come to our Putnam County shelter who was very young, probably 19. She was pregnant, and her abusive partner, her boyfriend, was um sort of holding her hostage in in way out in the county. And he was not allowing her to receive any kind of medical care. She she did hadn't even been to the doctor for the first time after she had been pregnant. I found out she was pregnant. So that really motivated her to contact branches. We were able to um find a safe time for her to get escorted. We can't go out and get people, but we can help. Um, the police can, essentially. So the police, the the police went out and got her and brought her to our shelter. And um, we actually have a relationship with a doula, which I have to be honest with you, I didn't know anything about. I was like, oh, okay, cool. And um this yeah, I was like, this is cool and a little weird, but um, but she was so sweet, she was so wonderful, and she just volunteered her time to come to the shelter, meet with her, helped her, really acted as like a medical guide for this very young woman who didn't have the knowledge to make these decisions about her health. Um, we got her connected with medical care, and then um, this was a situation in which we were able to re help repair, or um, I I actually want to be careful about this. We didn't do anything. We empowered her to be able to do this, and that is the most important thing. We're not, we're creating options for people, but they are doing the work. And um, this this particular girl did the work to reconnect with her family. Um, her family was living in a different state at that point, so she was able to reconnect with them. And um, we got pictures of her baby boy when he was born, and she he's so beautiful, so healthy, and she never has to um be afraid for him again. So that is something that is really special to me is that even before this child was born into a world of violence, she was able to get him out of that.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

So I really enjoy that story. That um that's gotta be the kind of story that keeps you going, right? Like because most of your days, I'm gonna guess, are not as happy and or maybe don't end in the happiest endings. But you know, how do how does that, how does this work affect you emotionally? How do you kind of handle that? Are you really good at compart compartmentalizing it?

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Um man, do I have a not uh a not popular opinion answer? Mine is probably pure disassociation. I like to read a lot. Yeah. I like to read. I like to um I do a lot of art on the side. Um, but I would be remiss if I did not just absolutely shout out branches as a work culture. We are maybe some of the most, in my opinion, some of the most progressive um work practices. For example, we are led by the absolutely incomparable Amanda McComas. She does a great job. Um, she's our executive director and she really looks out for our advocates. I mean, in a way that you just don't see very frequently. And um, one of the things that we uh have is that she implemented a 32-hour work week for our staff. And so we actually was very challenging to figure out our shelter is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So we had to balance that. But every full-time staff member only works 32 hours for a full-time week. And um, being able to offer that day as like a recovery day, as like a day to do whatever it is that makes you feel well was a really, really powerful thing. We did that about two years ago, and actually we're more productive as a staff than we were before.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

It's amazing. That's yeah, taking care of your people and staff, everything works better. How about that for a novice idea? That's crazy, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

I'm curious too, once um you you've had maybe somebody that gets out of the situation they were in, do they sometimes feel inspired to then become go on and become an advocate themselves as somebody that has personally experienced this and they feel like maybe I could do this work? And and how does somebody go about becoming an advocate?

SPEAKER_03 37:44

100%. Let me tell you a couple of ways about that. Um, something that really inspires me, for example. Um if you know anything about West Virginia law, right? Many of the laws that have been created to support survivors are because a survivor was inspired and absolutely hustled at the Capitol to make it happen. Um, going to meetings, talking to their legislators, telling their story over and over and over again, um, regardless of the emotional toll. I talk, I talk about this a lot. Um the survivors that we know their stories, they are giving us an enormous amount of self-sacrifice. They are they are risking being re-traumatized over and over again. They're being questioned, they're being doubted, all of that so that they can make things a little better for the next woman. And I think that is a powerful story. I I want to be clear, we understand that it happens to everybody. It is disproportionately affecting women. So I I tend to use the she her program.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Um, but but I think it is a powerful act to um mobilize your story in such a way that you make the world better from it. Um so that is uh is something that I think they do. Um I recently conducted like a little uh social experiment, but it was just for me, but it's not published. But um I do a lot of strategic planning. I'm a I'm a collective impact person, I do a lot of community mapping. And one of the things that I recently had the opportunity to do was to talk to a lot of the advocates in the state all in one room. And I went around and I asked them why. Why are you doing advocacy? And I would say that 85% said because I'm a survivor. So yes, they most, many, many survivors come to this work because of an advocate that helped.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

That's just powerful, right? I mean, I don't know. I just I'm inspired just listening to you. And right? I mean, it is, it's inspiring. I'm like, I want to do, you know, it anybody that's been in any kind of service, Sarah and I both, I was a school psychologist, she was a health psychologist. Like, that is our heart, is serving our communities and supporting people that need help, right? That's why we go into these professions, not because we're gonna make a lot of money, let's be honest. Um it is truly to be to live a life of service. And so just listening to your passion for this, um, yeah, it kind of like it it reignites that that passion in me in a different way, right? I I'm passionate about kids and and schools. I mean, that that's my role. Um, but just listening to you, I'm certain like that that has to give hope to people to say, you know, there is something. Um, you know, even if you don't have work experience and maybe you haven't worked for j for decades at this point, that doesn't mean you're unqualified for any job out there, right? And so just thinking about what are your options? Well, you have this lived experience that you could turn into something really great, um, you know, if you can get through this, this experience.

Ways To Help Shelters Locally

SPEAKER_00 40:57

So I am curious, what gives you hope? Like what kind of keeps you going? Well, what a great question.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Um I I absolutely know that this is gonna sound a little silly, but I was very fortunate in my life to I I feel like I never lost my sense of childlike wonder. And the world is still beautiful. It is still beautiful with beyond what is happening to you in this moment. It is still beautiful and there is still something there for you. And um, I would I would encourage anybody who is sitting right now, maybe listening in this experience. There is something beautiful five minutes down the road, a day down the road, a year down the road, whatever it takes, there is something beautiful waiting for you. And so that gives me hope every day.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Wow. What can we do then to help? What can we do to like help the cause? I guess is what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Sure. Thank you for asking. So um you can always, I this is my job, I have to say it. Um, we can't provide services without money. So you can go straight to our website and make an online donation. It will stay local. It helps our two shelters that we operate to provide crisis uh services. We also do a whole lot of other services with that money. We provide uh legal advocacy, which is like court accompaniment whenever they have to face their abusive person in court, um, or perhaps there's complicated custody proceedings, we can help get them connected with legal aid. Um, we also do have a program called Rapid Rehousing, where we help to try to get them into safe permanent housing. Um I really love this program. We have a couple of grants that help with that, but one thing that we're always in need of is like we don't want to just get somebody into housing and then say, okay, good luck, right? So we really like to give them like shower curtains and beds and things like that. So um your donation could help with that. You could designate your donation for that. Um, we often find that people need help getting their medication or getting their documents redone. Like if their abusive party took their birth certificate or their social security card, there's a lot of fees that come that are that go along with that. Um, so your donation could help with that if you chose, or it could just in general help with keeping the shelter running. I always joke that anything that you need in your house, we need 22 of.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

So um that's a great way to help us out. Um let if money is not the direction you want to go, you can also donate your time. You can do that in a couple of different ways. My favorite way right now is through our Meals on a Mission program. We can um so essentially it's great for groups or sororities or like church organizations, things like that. It's essentially as simple as it is, you log on to our meal train, you sign up to donate a meal, and then you cook it, cater it, buy it, whatever, and drive. It off. That's all you have to do. It's super low impact. You don't have to be very invested in it. Um, I would also, I guess, love to share that occasionally we do internships. Um, these are unpaid internships, but it's a great avenue if you're a young person and want to go into advocacy. Yeah, it can get you right in the door working directly. Um, I mean, feet to the fire, really, just right off the bat. Um, so great experience. And then we very frequently have events that we do throughout the community, and we are always looking for volunteers for those events. Um, and then finally, I'm gonna say this one last thing. People don't often think of this as a way to help, but educating yourself and then being a platform for that education is a great way to help. So um let's say that you are in a cafe and you hear somebody say, I just don't know where to go with this situation. Well, now you do, and you can help them. You can you can spread the work. So that is a really clear, tangible way to help.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

I love that. I love that kind of menu of options, and we're gonna we'll tag those also on our website so that you can find them on the lilesspodcast.com. And I know the first thing I'm gonna do when we get off this this recording is I'm gonna look up my local shelters here in South Carolina and see how I can also support them because this work, Sarah, is so important. What you do is so important, and I'm so grateful for your time today. I know that that takes time away from from either your personal time or or people you know that need you right now. So um we're we're so grateful that you took this time to answer our questions and to um just keep to to um to educate us, quite honestly. Like I'm sitting here thinking, like, I I should have already known these. That I should have, you know, I should I feel like I should know this uh given our training and mental health, but I have to say I I don't. Um so I appreciate that very much. Remind me of the podcast name too. The podcast that you all do at branches is called Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Okay, so our podcast is called Root for Each Other and it explores every nuance of domestic violence. We talk a great deal about human trafficking. Okay. We also talk about um things like neurodivergence in domestic violence, things like substance use disorder and domestic violence. Um, we we really want to create a content that is educational and informative for the listener.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

So that's really something we could even do is say, hey, you hear overhear it, like slip them the podcast. And and that's a great starting point, right? They can get a plethora of information from just listening to that. Um awesome. Thank you so, so much. Um, Sarah, any lasting word or any last words? Just thank you. Thank you so much for spreading the word and for allowing me to be here. Well, we are grateful again for your time and um check us out. Of course, you can find all of our resources. We're gonna tag everything that she's mentioned today on our website. On our, you can also find us on our Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, whatever your poison is, pick it, and uh you can we will tag all of these resources so that you can share those with um anybody that might be in need. That's all we got for this week, y'all. Until next week, Lilas. Thank you. We are out.