And What Else?
Welcome to 'And What Else?', your source for thoughtful and meaningful conversations about personal and professional growth. Host Wendy O'Beirne is an internationally recognised coach and consultant with a passion for exploring the layers of topics surrounding self-development. Together, we'll dig beneath the surface of subjects, stories, and possible solutions to uncover new perspectives we may not have seen before. With curiosity and open minds, let's embark on an adventure of self-discovery and uncover the possibilities of 'and what else'. Stay Curious!
And What Else?
Unlocking Inner Wisdom: Cacao, Plant Spirits, and the Journey to Self-Discovery
Curious about the transformative power of cacao and plant medicines? Join me, as I chat with the remarkable Ifey a doctor-turned-herbalist who founded Eight Within, an online apothecary. Ifey's journey from a conventional medical career to embracing the spiritual essence of plants offers invaluable insights into self-discovery. Her story of a life-altering experience in Costa Rica reveals how cacao became a catalyst for unlocking infinite wisdom within, with her mission being to empower individuals to tap into their inner potential.
Throughout our discussion, we delve into the fascinating relationship between spirituality and plant-based remedies, sharing personal stories that highlight the profound impact of these natural substances. We explore the spirit of plants, from passion flower to trees, and how they can transform perceptions and enhance well-being. Ifey opens up about the challenges of maintaining authenticity in the business of plant medicine, while ensuring these powerful tools remain accessible and enjoyable for everyone.
Discover how cacao can serve as a grounding force for those with fiery astrological influences, promoting emotional resilience and healthier responses to life's complexities. Ife shares insights into the biochemical wonders of cacao, offering long-term benefits such as improved heart and brain health. We also touch upon embracing vulnerability and trust, transitioning from hyper-independence to collaboration. Don't miss this episode!
8 Within Website
If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave me a review and subscribe! And if you want to learn more from me, come and say hello on Instagram @thecompletioncoach or via email at wendy@thecompletioncoach.co.uk or find out more about working with me on my website, thecompletioncoach.co.uk.
Welcome to, and what Else, the podcast with me, wendy O'Byrne, also known as the Completion Coach, and today I'm in conversation with a guest that I am really excited for you all to meet. Would you like to introduce yourself and tell everybody who you are?
Speaker 2:Sure, so I'm Ife Ihonu, my official, I guess, title would be I'm a doctor turned herbalist, and now I'm the founder of eight within and eight within.
Speaker 1:I like to call it an online apothecary for ceremonial cacao and sacred plant medicines what was the inspiration, beyond your particular business in cacao and everything that Eight Within kind of stands for?
Speaker 2:Okay, long story. So I think for me this is never where I saw my life going. I never planned to work with cacao and if I got to, you know, write the script and pick what I was doing. This is not what I'd be doing in any way, shape or form. I say cacao is something that really was, that came to me and that was almost put on me and that I knew I had to do. And I had this strange, strange experience.
Speaker 2:I was in Costa Rica last start of last year it feels a lot, lot longer, but this was actually only the start of last year and had this. I've had cacao before. I was underwhelmed. I love chocolate, but cacao underwhelming. And I'd had it in very western settings where you almost have to pretend you were having euphoria because everyone else was doing it, where realistically you were just waiting for the whole thing to end so you could go home. But this experience in the jungle it was.
Speaker 2:You know, cacao grows freely in Costa Rica. It had grown on the land we were on. We had picked everything, we had roasted the beans as a group, we'd peeled the beans, we'd crushed them, we'd made our cacao a very Mayan ceremony and then we'd gone into the jungle and drank it and I had this, very excuse me. It was a very transcendental experience where, literally, the trees were alive, the ground was alive, I could hear every bird and every butterfly, the lights, colors were just intense. It was very psychedelic and obviously I'm in the full euphoria of proper cacao and at the end I just said I have to do this. This is what it can do for you. This is amazing, and it was that thing.
Speaker 2:Wayne Dyer talks about life being done to you. That you are not doing it, it's being done to you, and that was my first proper experience of this makes no sense, and something higher than me is saying go forth and prosper with this. And so so I did. I went, bought a lot of beans, cacao beans, put them in my suitcase, snuck them through customs, came home and was like okay, we're going to do this. I didn't know how to make cacao and then I had to teach myself, do courses, et cetera, but that's how I got into cacao.
Speaker 1:I know that you've got this idea and vision for the brand, but can you just explain to people what it means? Eight Within, but can you just explain?
Speaker 2:to people what it means Eight Within. So Eight Within the name came to me and it sounds so cliched, but I feel like, because I'm such a non-cliché person, this whole experience has happened in this very cliché way to really challenge me. It's ironic, the things I look at. I'm like the fact this happened to me when I feel like I'm quite pragmatic, it's just hilarious. I was meditating and I kept seeing an infinity sign just glowing in front of me and at that stage I had been thinking what do I want to call this business? And so when I saw that, I knew. And then the word within came to me. And so for me, the eight I'm not sure if I'm saying it right, but it's an Ouroboros, it's the snake eating, the snake 's the traditional infinity sign, and so it really ate. Within stands for it's unlocking the infinite wisdom that lives within all of us. And, as someone who has been on a 20 year seeking journey, convinced something was wrong with me, to get to the end and realize you're good, nothing's wrong, everything's intentional. You had all this within you. You just have to block out some of the noise of everyone around you and just go within. That was when I started this I said that's the mission is to give people the first tool or the first step, instead to unlock that wisdom within them and realize they have way more power than they think and they are in control of this. A big thing for me was I wanted to help people who feel helpless and I wanted to give them a positive way to just feel better in the moment where they then feel inspired to go and do the stuff that they think they can't do in reality, then your personal experiences led you into this, that 20-year exploration.
Speaker 1:what was that all about for you?
Speaker 2:I didn't know, so I left medicine. I never knew what I wanted to do and I got into medicine because I come from a family of doctors. I always tell the story that when I was 16, I remember my family's Nigerian. So am I? For context? People think because my accent is Nigerian. I'm not from that.
Speaker 2:I was born and raised in Nigeria and then came over to the UK and when I was 16, I remember a family friend coming over and said to me something about so you're going to Manchester University or Nottingham University. I was like why? He said, oh, they have the best medical school. And I was like and it had been decided somewhere along the line that I was going to medical school without me knowing so, because I didn't really want to know what I wanted to do. That was the path of least resistance because I was good at school. I'm not going to lie, I'm telling you, if you tell me stuff, my brain will hold it and I find the human body fascinating. So I was just good at school. So I got the grades easily to go to any medical school and so I became a doctor. That's just how it worked. When I finally reached that goal, it was okay, but now what? Because you don't want to practice medicine. So what do you want to do with yourself? So that's where the identity crisis came, because you trade for medicine for six years. Then I practiced for another year and a half-ish and then left and that was my whole identity. I was the student, the good scholar, the doctor, and suddenly I was nothing.
Speaker 2:And when I left medicine, my superiors were not happy with me. I'd got on one of the best jobs. People don't know. When you graduate medical school, all the jobs in the country are graded and according to your competence level, you apply and if you are good enough, you get it. I'd gotten literally I think it was the third job on the list. So they were like a lot of people would have killed. It was at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital. It was a fancy job that a lot of people wanted and they literally the dean said to me that I was ungrateful, I was wasting taxpayers' money, people would have killed for this job. And I'm leaving it. For what? Because I was leaving with no plan. So I didn't leave medicine on, you know, with people popping balloons. I left through the back door like, you know, an ungrateful stepchild.
Speaker 2:So there was just a huge identity crisis, and so I knew in me that something else was going on and I was looking for something. But I didn't know what that was and everyone outside was just getting on with life. And it sounds silly, but I didn't drink, I didn't do drugs, I didn't do anything to get me, like you know, obliterate my brain. So I was feeling the discomfort so heavily and I didn't know what to do, and so I tried all the modalities you could think of, and I think that's part of the reason I even got into herbalism, because I would dabble with just trying to hack myself and hack my brain with all the different natural things out there.
Speaker 2:And then, somewhere along the line, I started traveling, a lot cliched. I ended up in India, I discovered Buddhism, I ended up in Bali, hawaii, like I started going all over the place and as I would travel I would meet these kind of natives who would say cryptic things to me and then I'd move on. And so when I started looking back the cryptic things, it started feeling a bit like you know, the book of the alchemist, which is my favorite book. It started feeling like I was on this weird quest and these breadcrumbs were being thrown and I didn't quite know where I was going, but it'd always be like I have to go there now.
Speaker 2:And my mom I remember how she took me to the airport once when I'd been to Bali. I stayed for a month. I came home for about two weeks and I was so depressed I said I'm just going back. And so I booked an open ticket and she dropped me at the airport and said I hope you find what you're looking for. And that really really sat with me because I was like, yeah, so do I, because I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:So that went on and it was just this desperate search but that took me into the world of herbalism and plant spirit, more importantly, into the world of herbalism and plant spirit More importantly.
Speaker 2:People talk about plant medicine, but it was more spirit of plants, animism and just becoming aware that there was this whole other world.
Speaker 2:And when I became aware of that, it was very much a I knew it kind of moment. It wasn't that I'm shocked, it was that I knew there was something going on and I'd been to loads of therapists and it was all just like you're going to drive yourself bad from this pursuit of this thing that doesn't exist. You need to just accept what's going on. So that's yeah, that's how I got into everything, and for me, I feel like that's part of my role, because I went from that something's going on but I'm also very practical to I'm gonna keep searching and then here's the answer. But life is still exactly the same. You're just empowered with this knowledge that helps you navigate it better, because you realize you're in control, and there are a lot of people who don't think they're in control. So part of is like, I guess maybe this is why this task has been given to me. It's to start a ripple in the ears of the people who aren't aware and are really struggling.
Speaker 1:I mean so many parts of that A that I didn't know, so thank you for sharing it. But wow, plant spirit, let's start there. There could you talk?
Speaker 2:more about that. Yeah, so plants around, we see trees, etc. And I think for most of us, we take plants for granted. They're just these things and, to be honest, they're these things that we feel are there to serve us. They give us extra oxygen, they mop up the toxins, they give us food, they give us shelter. But plants are older, way older than humans.
Speaker 2:You know, you've got plants that still exist, plants like species, like horsetail, so old, like you're, going beyond human times. They've been around for so long and the idea is that they're sentient beings and just as you and I sitting here as humans on our soul's evolution, we've been plants at one point before we became animals, and it's just that. So if you're looking at a mighty oak tree, like this tree physically has been around for ages, and then its spirit, its wisdom, its essence has been around even longer. So think about what a plant has seen. They're quietly sitting there absorbing so much knowledge. And so when you start looking at plants as sentient beings and it's so funny when you do, because there's a shift you literally see trees smiling at you, which I know you do. I see you with your tree obsession. It's so different once you see a plant as a living, breathing, physical, conscious entity. There's a lot of wisdom and plants are very generous with that wisdom is what I found, and if you spend time in their presence, just physically. I live in my family home at the moment. I think my dad thinks I'm absolutely insane because we have these two giant trees in our garden and you'll often find me standing in the back of a garden to walk into the trees and it's always like what are you doing out there? But and my story's loaded, please I remember when I was in India having issues and I I did it was this yogi guy, like just this mystical being floating around, and now I recall he said that to me that if you ever have an issue, just go and talk to a tree. And I think that's probably where it started, because I was like this guy's insane, but whatever. So my point is each plant has this wisdom, but in plant spirit, in the plant spirit world, the idea is, like different humans, plants have that specific message that's specific to that, and so if you work with that plant, you can learn a lot about it. And you can work with a plant by just sitting with it in a plant meditation. You can work with it by consuming it, which is really where I've gotten to Working with tinctures.
Speaker 2:When you have a a tincture, the plant is soaked in alcohol and alcohol is meant to be the ultimate plump spirit. Because that's how you make alcohol. You ferment a plant and alcohol is the byproduct. So this is a big reason people don't realize. When they say I want an alcohol-free tincture, I'm like, okay, but you're actually missing the point. The alcohol is part of the alchemy. So so you're working with the spirit and the essence of the plant, which is very different to the biochemical properties. So, for example, you take you know I love passion flower, so I'll give that as an example Passion flower.
Speaker 2:If you physically take it, people, it's good for sleep and anxiety, it will calm you down. But the spirit is all about surrendering, going with the flow of life, because the passion flower is a vine, it grows upwards. It's also about when you surrender to the flow of life, your vision and your dreams, they go upwards and you can actually achieve them. So it's kind of the same, because when you surrender and you go with the flow, you relax and then you're less anxious and you sleep. But they're two parallel same, same but different, as everyone would say. It's the same but it's not quite the same. So that's the spirit message. It's deeper and to get it you have to be quiet.
Speaker 1:It's not necessarily quick, but you have to pay attention well, you know yourself that I had a medical issue and I'd spoken to you and you were like to support you, connect with Passionflower and the nerves that had got trapped and the issues I was having immediately relaxed and released, but also the intention behind using it and the connection towards using it. But much like you, yes, I do talk to the trees now but was very skeptical. I was very logical all of my life and I went on to a new tree immersion day and, honestly, through a large part of it I thought these lot are bonkers, like some of the shows of rolling in the soil and the rest of it. I was like, oh, this is not for me, get me out. But they actually left us to meditate with a tree and she gave us afterwards some folklore about the tree and undeniably what the tree told me, um, that I had written down was it was just really profound as an experience for the day when you took away the theatrics, when you took away a lot of the stuff going on.
Speaker 1:I came away with that thinking my mind's actually just been blown from sitting with a tree and that's the part of the day and we'd made a tree essence oil or the rest of it. But it really opened my mind then to looking at the history of plants, looking at the mythology and stories around some of these things as well, and that completely changed my mind. And ever since then I cannot walk past trees without seeing different faces, seeing different moods, seeing different bits of wisdom that that tree would hold. And trees always give us that opportunity to breathe right, to just sit and breathe and be, and I just think it's really interesting that, whether you're somebody that's out there as tree people are often called, or whether you're super logical, I think once you've had an experience it just becomes undeniable. You obviously had that experience with cacao and with plants in general. What is it now that's coming through you, that's coming into the business, and where is this all leading you at the moment?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think I've had an identity crisis with the business. I mean, it's been a year. It's not like it's been a long business, it feels like it's been 20 years, but it's been a year, I think, because I've moved into a space where there's currently there's a status quo, there's a certain type of people in the space doing things in a certain way, and so it's like being the new child at school. You come in and I'll speak for myself and I felt, oh, I have to behave like this. You know, firstly I look around. My face doesn't fit. There's no one like me in this space. And then my background doesn't fit. You know, it's excessively woo and I love the woo. But I come in with a very scientific background and I'm looking around and there's only actually one other person I know, which I actually went and studied under, that has a science background. So I was thinking, oh well, I have to be like these people, but authenticity is such a big thing for me I can't. I can't do it. So how do we navigate this space? And it's taken me the year to finally say there's eight.
Speaker 2:Within is firstly, I call it starter cacao, starter cacao. Starter plant spread is where you dip your toes into, and it's very much like you said when you started. With the blend, you've progressed to the plain cacao, you progress to working with the other plants. It's I, it's an entry portal. It's not necessarily where you're going to sit when you're 10 years into your journey, but actually sometimes you go and you you have a blend I certainly do and I'm like, oh, I forgot how good this was. It's been a minute since I sat down and had one of my own blends, but it's, yeah, it's. It's for the people who right now, plant medicines and cacao is not accessible to them. They physically may not be in that world. The world might be a bit too. You know, you go buy cacao. Now you have to get it from certain places. It comes in a brown paper bag. There's love and light and blessings that hold on it. Normal people I didn't know what this is. I branded my softener where actually it's accessible. It looks normal, like the brand is normal 'm normal, I'm not. It's what you said about theatrics. I've taken the theatrics away because that scares some people and I've just said this is something. It's going to make you feel good. It has a rich history. It's hundreds and thousands of years old. It tastes good, because I've worked hard to make sure this tastes good. Try it and see what you think. That's literally how we are. There's no heavy sell. It's try it, which is why, for example, I offer a starter pack. I hate those starter packs, I'll be very honest. They're so hard to make because they're small, fiddly bits of cacao and I do everything myself. I'm shoveling these small bits into bags. It's expensive because everything is labeled up separately. But for me, I said I'm not going to start by selling someone a giant bag of cacao when they don't even know if they want it. We're going to start with the piddly ones and I'm going to take a loss on it because I want you to be happy before you move forward. So I don't know if I'm answering the question or not. That's the goal for Eight. Within is introducing people to the power of cacao, but also plant medicines, and that's why I make blends. That's why I incorporate other plant medicines into cacao, because, firstly, I want to show two works synergistically. Secondly, I want to show it's not just cacao. You may try cacao. It's not your bag. That's the other thing about plant spirit. It's their relationships that you build and you sit with one plant and you go. I cannot vie with mugwort, I have tried. I have tried. So cacao may not be for you, but that's when you know. I work with teachers. I work with loose herbs. I work with people one-to-one. It's just an entry level and the right people find it and the right people open up the conversation with me and they're always shocked that I respond to them. I respond to everyone and I respond to everyone aggressively. Anyone who's listened to this that's ever mess DM'd me, emailed me. They're like yeah, she actually has spent a good 20, 30 minutes with me for free. I give me some money, I'm just speaking. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of power in this world and it's close enough to a lot of people and it's important to open it up to people. And also conversation I've been having recently is allowing people to be where they are at. Stop trying to force them to do it the way that you think they should do it. And if they want to do it this way, they're disrespectful. Disrespectful. They're not following tradition, abc. You don't have a right to say that to people. The relationship someone has with a plant is their relationship, like this, with a person and I feel like it within. I'm saying have that relationship. But while I felt bad because on instagram I play around with cacao, I make recipes, recipes, I make them bright, I make them colorful, and initially I was like am I being disrespectful? And then I sat with cacao and I'm like am I being disrespectful? And the answer was no, you're having fun, because guess what? This should be fun. This is not meant to be hard and we need to move people away from the idea that the way to save your soul is to torture yourself, because this is still the old, antiquated, religious human. It's never a plant that's doing it. It's never your highest self or consciousness. It's humans that put these weird, distorted ways of operating. We must suffer. Your cacao has to be super bitter so you can learn the lesson. What if you can learn the lesson by not having it super bitter? What if you can get introduced to it and start sitting and working with it and then progress to it being bitter? You'll learn a much better lesson than you have a horribly bitter cup and never come back. Why is there no grace? Why is everyone so? That's me. I'm like come on in over here. There's no judgment. There's no flagellation, I'm not interested in that. And if you don't like it, judgment. There's no flagellation, I'm not interested in that. And if you don't like it, well, we have a hundred other herbs for you to try. And that's just the way I live my life, because I have grown up as a minority in a country that especially. I came here in the 90s and there was a lot of that self-flagellation. You are not allowed to be, you are not allowed to breathe, you have to to behave in this way. You and I know it's only this year I've started using my real name. I had to use a different name to fit in and I still didn't fit in, so it still didn't work. So all of this is really intricately tied up in something that looks like a cacao business. There's a big story about self-accepting and being yourself and enjoying, literally. For me, that's the. You know, one of my favorite plants is damiana, because the spirit of damiana is light and playful. It just reminds you to be childlike. Nothing is that serious and it's just that's it. So that's why, if you do anything with me and within, you'll notice it's just a bit playful, because I just want us to just relax.
Speaker 1:We're happier as kids, and as adults we make ourselves miserable, so yeah, I love that because a lot of what I'm in conversation with people about is why do we attach so much suffering? Because if there's any point to self-development, growth, healing, whatever people want to label it, I'm like surely the shift is to move away from the suffering angle to there being more joy and wise. You may as well have just stayed suffering as you were because that's where you were and and like if we could take the world a little bit less seriously and ourselves and what we want a little bit more seriously, then I think we could get that balance better. And certainly through working with your starter pack initially and then buying all of your blends and, quite frankly, becoming a pest to you, what have you got? What are you doing? A you've educated me on many levels on a scientific level which I hadn't fully understood, which now that makes sense to me, so much more of it makes sense to me and when and why I would use it. But also, yeah, sometimes I don't want to sit with the bitter cup. Sometimes I intentionally use a blend because the intention behind using that blend is really helping me in what I'm doing, and I think intention really matters far more than any ritual or you know somebody's everybody's going to argue about who does it right.
Speaker 1:I've seen so many people arguing about the rights and wrongs and how you should and shouldn't and it gets people into freeze because then they didn't do anything, because then how dare they? And I've never seen your brand as an access level entry point as such, because I think I'll be using it for a long time to come. But I see what you mean about it being the access in without judgment, because that's huge from you. You have so much knowledge, you have so much passion, there's so much personal experience within it as to what it's done for you. But also there's this removal of the barrier of this way or the highway. You should do this or you shouldn't do that.
Speaker 1:And I'm on day four or five today of my 30 days of cacao again and it just it's so good.
Speaker 1:It's so good for so many parts of me, but especially for my patience, for my slowing down a little bit, for intentionally going inwards on purpose, just to be slower, just to be more patient, and I always get so much from that. And you were the first person that never spoke to me about being on the journey with it over 30 days, not just sitting in ceremony or using it at a certain point, but using it on a day-to-day basis to improve my sleep on a huge level. My thinking, the way that I was feeling, and also it shifted, as I've mentioned to you before, the way I was eating changed as a byproduct of that over that 30 days, and it was only on reflection over the first few days that I started to notice how much was changing. That I wasn't trying to change. That was just the byproduct of doing this 30-day commitment of sitting with myself. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that side of things?
Speaker 2:do you want to talk a little bit more about that side of things? Yeah, so for me, that's the irony that cacao really came to me and said all right, we're doing this together because impatience I've always said impatience is my life lesson. I'm, for people into astrology, a lovely mix of sagittarius and aries. My chart is just fire, like fire everywhere, impatience. All my axes are cardinal. It's just. If you look at the chart, you're like this is someone who does not know how to be slow and I don't. And so Kakao came into my life and said you're getting it Like there's a message and there's somewhere you need to be, but you have got to slow down and so we are going to go and you're going to fight me and I don't care and this is what we're doing. And so from the spirit perspective, that's a huge part of it. Part of the plant spirit message a key one for the cow is initiation. It's all about starting this journey, this deeper spiritual journey. But I always say it's all about you have to be slow and go slow to get the lessons.
Speaker 2:Or, by chemical perspective, when you work with theacao over time, you are giving your body and your brain time to assimilate the different compounds in it. This is you know it's not a 20-hour thing, so I'll be quick. You've got six different compounds in cacao that affect how you feel. Things like theobromine will work in the moment because it opens up your blood vessels. It pumps blood all over the body. You feel more energized, uplifted, your heart is beating faster. That's why people say cacao is heart opening, it's theobromine working. But then you've got things like substances phenethylamine, that increases your dopamine levels, serotonin levels. Tryptophan works on serotonin. So you're taking these on a daily basis. You are actually modifying your chemical, your feel-good, chemical balance in your body. And people who have lower levels of these chemicals, people with seasonal affective disorder, clinical depression, normal depression, anxiety, adhd. They are the kind of people who would drink a cow and use it steadily over time and actually notice. The people who would drink cacao and use it steadily over time and actually notice. Oh, I feel a shift. And it's not woo, it's science. The makeup of the molecules in your body are starting to change.
Speaker 2:The thing that I find really special is there's a molecule in cacao called tryptamine. This is my obsession, Apart from the spirit. If there's one reason why, every single day, I drink cacaoacao, it's for tryptamine, because tryptamine is turned into. It's used to make dnt. Dnt is the god molecule. You get it in things like ayahuasca and bufo. If the cause, if you have an experience with the plant medicine that causes ego dissolution, dnt is usually behind that, you're only going to get small amounts of it made from cacao. So don't no one needs to panic that they're going to get small amounts of it made from cacao, so no one needs to panic that they're going to have a psychedelic experience.
Speaker 2:But where tryptamine excels is it causes neuroplastic changes in your brain and keep it as simple as possible. When that happens, it just means if I take it back a step we are conditioned. Our behaviors and our beliefs are from just repeated patterns. So someone who is scared of dogs, for example, if they see a dog, their brain and their nerve cells fire in a certain way that says adrenaline, danger, get away. So even when they see a chihuahua, that's going to do nothing to them, the same neural messages are being passed and they're like run, run, run.
Speaker 2:Tryptamine starts to modify the way your brain cells and your nerve cells speak to each other, so you actually have a chance to change your perspective, change your behaviors. Look at a situation Is that chihuahua really going to attack me? You have that space and then the more you modify, you have this neuroplastic changes. You just notice a shift in your perspective, in your behavior, your rig, your rigidity, your fears. They start to shift and the more you start letting your nerve cells fire in this new way of thinking, you are solidifying new, healthier ways of behaving and responding to situations, which is why, when you look at someone you know I've drank cacao every day for almost two years now I feel very different, very, very different in the very different in the way I respond to situations.
Speaker 2:Things that I would have been very flippant about. I've got time, things I'd have been scared of doing. I'm able to kind of feel the fear and do it anyway. It just expands your realms of perception and presence more and I think I think that's magical and, again, that's science. You know I'm happy to share a link to studies for people for that, but that's what tryptamine does for you, so it's worth just getting again these neuroplastic changes. The old patterns you had took ages to be built, so again, that's why it's important to have some every day, rather than you know, I have a giant dose once a month and that's it.
Speaker 2:And same with the health benefits of cacao. You know, we all know it's good for your heart health, your brain health. There's studies out there showing that just seven grams twice a day doubles stem cell production, which is great for replacing damaged cells in the body. So if you're someone with a chronic disease, a degenerative disease, a little bit, you know I'm forcing my mom to drink cacao every day and initially she was like, hey, this is bitter, but it's the same. I use the same spiel on her Stem cell production doubles. You don't need a lot, so you don't need to bankrupt yourself. 14 grams is not a lot because that's seven twice a day. I could go on. I will not.
Speaker 2:But there's a lot of good stuff from working with cacao regularly and I think that practice, from more of a spiritual, emotional perspective, it's just really grounding to have that thing that you know you just like brushing your teeth. You know you do it every day because it's doing you good in the long term. And some days you'll drink your cup and you'll feel euphoric, other days you won't. That's just how it goes. Some days I drink, nothing's different and I'm like I didn't really get much of a buzz from this today and the next day I'm bouncing off the walls. You get what you need and you just have to trust. In the same way you brush your teeth and you're not like, oh, my teeth haven't fallen. You're not checking for cavities as you brush.
Speaker 1:I love that because anybody that listens to this podcast regularly will hear me banging on continuously about getting out of all or nothing mode, stopping yourself from being all or nothing and expecting huge change from these big events. And I ask everybody what the bare minimum you're committing to each day to create this compounded, slow but glorious effect that's going to last you a lifetime and change things on a much deeper level than that one thing one time, so again, mastering your relationship with the car, mastering your relationship with things and just seeing where it takes you. You spoke about becoming a doctor and then giving that up and having an identity crisis. Coming into this work and realizing in this space you were having a little bit of an identity crisis as the woman in this space, having a little bit of an identity crisis within it. What's different about you now?
Speaker 2:that's keeping you here and expanding with it because, after all my searchings, I've had my searchings. That's not a word. I hate when people make up fake words. After my decades-long seeking journey, the culmination has involved certain certain plot medicines, but the big thing that did for me was it gave me that undeniable experience that taught me me as an entity. Sitting here right now isn't me Like. I'm much bigger than this and this is a snapshot in time that I've chosen to be in, and everything about this is intentional. That was literally the last sitting I had that. I had this like profound meeting of self. That was it. It was like you are an idiot. This was all intentional. You wanted to do this. You wanted that nose. You wanted those eyes. Why is this a problem? You've forgotten and now it's a problem for you. You wanted this challenge. It's not an accident.
Speaker 2:You were born in Nigeria and end up in the UK in the 90s where everyone was super racist. You wanted this challenge, lean into it and enjoy it. You wanted to be the oddball that stood out and is standing at these hippie fairs and everyone is looking at you like are you lost? You know you want that so, and it's so different when you know I'm here intentionally and there's a story and there's a joke. You could just have a little more fun with it.
Speaker 2:So now I am at that stage I'm not trying to be disrespectful to everyone, but it's like and deal with it. Because if I'm also provoking you with my existence, you think I shouldn't be here and that's making you so mad, then that's part of what you chose to experience and you have to work through why my existing in this space that you think is just for you is making you so upset. So I'm going to leave that with you. I'm going to deal with my own stuff and you deal with your stuff. That's how I'm viewing it. And even I've had challenges where things have happened and people have been quite mean to me and I've been really upset. And then I've gone away and reflected. And I was listening to a book the other day at the same time when I was upset because someone in this space had been quite mean to me and they talked about these.
Speaker 2:People are there. You need them to move you to where like this is intentional. So that person who you think is your nemesis, it's not your nemesis. That's like you. That's the other you. That's just like prodding and provoking you. It's all. Play it like we're all just playing. It's what Shakespeare says about you know, the world's a stage and everyone's characters, the villain is like having a laugh being a villain. It's not that deep, and so now I can look at it that way. Yeah, I want to punch the villain when they come for me and upset me, but I'm like you signed up for this, it's not that serious, we're all just playing, it's fine.
Speaker 1:So that makes it easier and I yeah, I love that view in shifting you through this identity crisis and staying. But I also know about you is and it would be remiss not to mention it on this podcast is that you're somebody who was also previously lent on traits of hyper independence as a way of a survival mechanism and coping mechanism. How has that shifted within you or continues to shift, and what would you say to anybody who is only just noticing that about themselves?
Speaker 2:so for me, I think yes, it's multifactorial. I think culture is a big thing. I think anyone born to african parents, especially west african parents, will know that there's a big thing of stiff upper lip, getting stuff rely on no one. And this is why qualifications like medicine law they're really highly regarded in these families. It's because they say once you have it, no one can take it away from you. There's this mentality that the world is out to get you, so you get yours, you protect it fiercely and you rely on no one. And so when you come from Africa and you come here, you are a stranger in white man's land I'm just going to be quite blunt and there's a them versus us mentality. So you go into survival mode.
Speaker 2:As I said, I came in the 90s I don't know if I could swear on this podcast or not. People said to me black bitch, go back to Africa. That's you know, I was eight, I was nine, I was 10. That's what I was hearing. I put on my armor and I'm astrologically, I'm a cancer rising. So the armor was there anyway.
Speaker 2:I just needed one or two people to tell me go back to Africa. To just completely lock down and be like okay, we're doing this on our own, which is why I was so good at studying and I ended up in med school. Because you can say what you want about me, but when I go home I'm going to know I would learn encyclopedias. You know, I say this to my niece, who just loves YouTube and she can't fathom. I grew up when there was no YouTube. She's like what did you do? I said I read encyclopedias. I could quote the whole encycl. I just learned stuff and then I had my stuff and you couldn't take it away from me. So that's what has led to me becoming an adult who is I can do everything myself.
Speaker 2:What I am learning especially from this business is I can do everything myself well and without having another's breakdown. And actually it's a lot more fun when other people get involved. It's fun for me, fun for them, there's a ripple effect. You don't have to do everything yourself. But I think I needed to come from that place of being fiercely protective of myself to now saying, okay, I can relax a little. And it's an ongoing process, because now if someone comes to me and they're nice to me, I'm still looking at them like what do you want? Because that's what I said about neuroplasticity. That's what's ingrained. You've come, you're being nice I don't know you, you're up to something and the scams do happen from time to time but it's a trust and again, I think I said my life lesson was patience and as I get older I realize it's trust.
Speaker 1:And I'm, yeah, side by side with you on that one. I'm always navigating hyper-independence. I don't think it's something that we have and then lose, but I'm always really aware of when my shell has closed and when things have happened and I'm like, okay, you're reacting really badly to this, like, what do you need to be okay in this situation, even when it's going to end up being something that might be painful or hurtful, which is obviously what the the shell is for. But it's a really interesting one, because so many people have hyper independent traits and so many people just think it's the way that they are and then they're just going to get on with it and like they're just that person that can do a lot, be a lot, go, go, go. And I'm like, oh, a lot of.
Speaker 1:That's your trauma, it's like, and that comes in different shapes and styles, but it is about allowing more people in allowing ourselves to be more of ourselves and opening up to receiving a bit of help now and again and knowing that it's safe to receive it. So thank you for coming on here, because you have shared not only really generously here, but your knowledge and magic with me. Every time I've asked you a question, you have introduced me to something that is having a really glorious, profound effect on me and that I've been able to use on retreats and with clients and know that I could always ask you anything and you would give me information. That's really helpful to do that in a way that I want to be able to do it with people, so I'm really grateful for you. Where else can people find you and where can they look you up or get in touch?
Speaker 2:So I'm just 8within everywhere, digit 8 within, like, like inside, so website is eightwithincom. I'm socially most active on Instagram and it's just the eight within, but I do sort of have a presence on TikTok and Facebook as well brilliant, thank you, and anybody.
Speaker 1:If you want to do anything from buying somebody a Christmas gift or buying yourself a starter pack or just seeing if this might be something you're interested in digging into, you can follow the Instagram page for 8within, but also go online and have a look at the website and get those orders in, because this is a small business that is making by hand, that is creating from somewhere deeper within them than a profit margin, and if you are curious or this is something that you've wanted to explore for a while, especially slowing down and giving yourself a bit of space then I personally can, 10 out of 10, recommend Lots of love and always, if you've got any questions or anything you want to follow up on this podcast with, drop me an email, wendy, at thecompletioncoachcouk.