A Kitchen Conversation with Beth: Finding Independence After Marriage

Beth shares her decade-long healing journey from divorce, revealing how losing her marriage helped her discover she'd never truly found herself. We explore the difference between healthy independence and over-independence, why yellow flags deserve as much attention as red ones, and how building a metaphorical toolbox helps navigate future challenges.

• Moving from blame to accountability as the first step in healing
• Losing independence before marriage and transferring dependency from twin sister to spouse 
• Starting small with solo activities to rebuild confidence and self-reliance
• Learning to wave yellow flags instead of pocketing them in relationships
• Standing up for your worth through difficult conversations
• Building an emotional toolbox for handling triggers and challenges
• Finding balance between independence and willingness to share life with someone
• Using daily gratitude journaling to end each day on a positive note

Transcript

Welcome to Season Five

Speaker 1 0:00

Hey , welcome back . This is Go Ask Sawyer , and I am , jamie , your host , and welcome to Season 5 . Season 5 is all about putting the microphone in your hands . I want to hear what you have to say when it comes to things that you have healed from . I've talked far and wide about everything that I have gone through , anything that I have felt , and I really want to hear from you because I think the best way we learn is through community and through other people . So today I have Beth on the podcast . Beth , do you want to say hi , hi , and she's going to talk about her healing journey , an event or something that she had to heal from , because , again , it doesn't always have to be . You know , a lot of us talk about we had to heal from family or friends or breakups , and everyone has a different story . So , beth , what is an event , what is something that you want to talk about that you've healed from or are in the process ? Because healing is , of course a journey cyclical or a journey .

Beth's Divorce and Healing Journey

Speaker 2 1:08

Okay , so for me , thank you for having me . For me , I would say my , and that was again fully healed . I think it's you worked through it , but I would say my divorce for sure . And what did you ask me ? How I heal , how are you ?

Speaker 1 1:23

Okay , so well , let's start with that . You're divorced . That was how long ago , gosh , it's been so long , I don't even know . Oh , like 10 years , 10 , 11 years . So this has been a 10-year process . And let me ask you this , because I don't know if we all know right when things happen . Did you know you had to heal then , or is this something that you've been like dang , this is not going away , or this issue ? I need to do some working .

Speaker 2 1:48

You know , I don't hindsight when it happened I didn't think . I thought I was like I don't need healing , like I'm fine . She was the problem , not me . Until maybe like a year after , when we tried to reconcile our differences and I'm like this is just not it and my self worth went to the toilet . So it was like a year after . I'm like this is not something's wrong , I need to repair something .

Speaker 1 2:13

So it sounds like you had to repair something yourself 100% , like ,

Realizing Self Worth Issues

Speaker 1 2:16

100% me . I knew it was all me . So what have you done ? What are like ? We all have tools . What are some things that have been helpful to you , or what are some things that you're doing ?

Speaker 2 2:24

I think the first thing I did was to admit that it was that I needed to fix me and not put blame on her , because I think that was the easy fix to be like she's a problem , yeah . But I went to counseling for a while . So much came out of that and we can get into that if you want . So much came out of that and I was like , wait , there was so much that I needed to unpack . That wasn't just her and I , and that was like childhood type stuff , yeah , and if it wasn't for that , I don't think I would have ever been to where I'm at now . So the first thing was counseling and I think , admitting that it wasn't all her , that it was me . I'm like I need to fix me before I can carry on .

Speaker 1 3:00

Is there like one or two big things that you notice in yourself that , like , example , anger or jealousy or communication I'm trying to think of , like things in me that I'm working on ? Were there one or two things that you're like , dang I , this isn't . This is an issue . And if it did , come from childhood ?

Speaker 2 3:16

Yes , 100% yes . I think one thing that came out of it was and one thing I never thought I've lost my independence and I didn't even know I lost it and it really had nothing even to do with my marriage . So I'm an identical twin and up to that point everything I did was with my twin . And then I got married and then it shifted and I kind of put my independence like cohabitating with my wife . So after we divorced I was like I don't have anything and I relied on , like my sister for everything . And I think , going through counseling it was like how do I find me after divorce ? Because I used to

Lost Independence and Twin Codependency

Speaker 2 3:53

have my twin who then was in a relationship . Yeah , like I have nobody . And it was such a dark time and I was like , wait , I need to find me . And counseling helped me realize you can do stuff on your own , it's going to be okay . So I think that was the biggest thing for me was finding my independence and not relying on somebody else to constantly fill my bubble .

Speaker 1 4:13

So for anyone else that's listening and they're like , oh my gosh , we went through something similar , or I've lost myself , or I don't know how to do things alone . I always have to have someone , people right . Like we become this , like , how do I do this ? Like , how did you find your independence ? I ?

Speaker 2 4:28

think it started small and I think I remember one day I left counseling and we were talking about starting small and just whatever it was . I think maybe going grocery shopping or something alone starting small , just doing it and not thinking about it I mean hindsight now I'm an overanalyzer Just to do it and not think about it . I still struggle now with saying yes to things without overanalyzing , but at that time it was like just do the small things by yourself . And when I started doing them more often I was like , oh my gosh , where is this better money ? Why haven't I been doing these things by myself the entire time ? Yeah , because I think we always take the easy route and just do it with somebody else . Yeah , the small things , very small .

Speaker 1 5:06

Okay . So telling anyone out there like , start small right . Like go to a park by yourself , go grocery shopping by yourself . The more you do small things it just becomes Habit , habit , natural . How do you feel you are now ?

Speaker 2 5:19

Well , I think I've found , even after the divorce , going through counseling , I , after my divorce , I hit rock bottom . I literally had nothing . I was living with my twin sister at the time and going through counseling , trying to go through the loss of my wife and trying to find myself again . So I think I slowly started to write goals for myself physically writing them down , not just like , oh , someday I'd like to buy a house . Physically wrote down I want to buy a house , bought my house 10 years ago , moved in here with nothing and doing the things on my own to make this . My own house has taught me so much about myself knowing I can do all this on my own . When I started with the counseling , knowing that my issue was not being able to function without somebody there all the time Okay

Fear of Sharing Space Again

Speaker 2 6:05

. And now it's . Now it's my home and this is all I know is independence . Yeah , okay , so I do have a question about that .

Speaker 1 6:11

This is all I know is independence . Do you think you know how to be in relationship to to depend on someone , or do you think you've gone so far over this way that now you're so terrified Maybe terrified is not the right word , no , that might be my first word so terrified to go slip back into , like what if someone takes it from me again that I don't even want to allow , I don't want to say someone in , but like that whole idea of like falling back .

Speaker 2 6:38

Yeah , when you asked me that , I feel like my throat just got tight , like , yes , sharing my space with somebody a day or two , a couple of days is fine , but I've always told myself I love bath time and I do . Yeah , but I also want to know what it's like to live with somebody and to have a love with somebody . So I don't know what that's like . I'd like to say I don't need the independence and I don't want that forever , but it does scare me . Yeah , need the independence and I don't want that forever , but it does scare me Thinking of sharing my house with somebody and breaking my habits which they need to be broke , because I'm a creature of habit it scares me to death .

Speaker 1 7:12

I mean I will say I haven't lived with anyone for a long time , but I would also . It's easy to date when you're not living with someone or when you're just spending like little bits of time because you know eventually they're going to leave . You can go back into your way of living . You can put everything back in its spot . You don't have to like for me , I just apparently like to be messy . I mean , I know how messy I like to be until my boys have moved out . If I come home and I'm like , why is it such a mess in here ? And I'm like , dang it , it's me . And then I'm like what if I start dating someone and then we've been together and now I have to be clean again ?

Speaker 1 7:46

I think there's a good balance . I do think there's a balance and sometimes I need . I think right now I'm in a weird space of I've never been here before with no children to like have to do anything for . Yeah , so it's like a different kind of freedom . But I do like the dance of you teach me some things , you teach me some things , like we teach each other things , where we both have to let go of habits here and there .

Speaker 2 8:10

Yes , because I know I'm a creature of habit . So when things are like out of place and sometimes I panic , I know that it's just a temporary thing and bigger picture , like , if I want somebody in my life long term , that's such a minor thing to worry about , but it does . It does . It's in the back of my mind . I am giving up my not my freedom because I want to give that up . Like I want to share my space with somebody and if it's the right , person .

Speaker 1 8:34

Is it giving up your freedom , or is it just seeing it in a different way ?

Speaker 2 8:38

yeah , I think it's . It's in sharing my life with me , because my life here is great , but I want to share it . It's not fun picking up my own mess no it's really not .

Speaker 1 8:49

And my dog and cat ? No one helps out . Gunnar doesn't help and Oliver doesn't help , and , if anything , oliver makes a bigger mess with my plants . Okay . So independence finding yourself maybe a little bit over independent , yeah .

Speaker 2 9:01

I guess I never thought about that until you just asked how I came from having to always . You know , even before I got married , my relationships were always short , sweet move on to the next one and then I got married .

Speaker 2 9:16

And then I got married and then I realized , like why did I always think I needed somebody ? I don't need somebody constantly . And now I'm completely opposite of that . Like since my breakup I've had one serious relationship , and it's been how many years . So it's funny now that you say that I'm understanding that I craved dependency at the time . Now it's like am I over independent ? So I think that's . Thank you for bringing that up . You're very well . Now it's like am I over independent ? So I think that's it .

Speaker 1 9:43

Thank you for bringing that up . You're very welcome . That's a suitcase you can unpack . Yes , it's a big one . But what are some other things maybe that have come out of your marriage that you're like man if I would have done this different , or if I would have done this different , maybe I could have let different things go

Yellow Flags and Avoiding Hard Conversations

Speaker 1 9:58

. That's tough . Besides the , independence thing .

Speaker 2 10:04

Yeah , because when I was married , and even after that , I didn't even realize that was an issue . But I think it maybe goes back to seeing some of the I'll call them like yellow flags early , because it was the honeymoon phase and I thought this is it , this is forever . I pocketed those like oh , it'll be fine once we're married because she wants to be with me forever . And then once that commitment was made , the skeletons came out of the closet . But they were there . I just ignored them originally . So I think had they come out earlier , maybe we talked about them , they would have been easier to handle . But the signs were there early on and I just kind of put them away like nope , this is what I want is a marriage , this is what everybody wants . And you know , I had the person at that time thinking this is it . I'm like I ignored those flags early on and I shouldn't have .

Speaker 1 10:49

That's very annoying to ignore in hindsight right , like I was listening to a podcast today about how we see so clearly when we the only way we like learning in life and seeing clearly , understanding was when we look backwards and you can clearly see like , oh my gosh , this has happened because of this , this and this . But like moving into the future , like we just can't see it . We're so blind to it . And the yellow flags , the red flags I feel like we see and we're having fun at the circus and we just don't want to deal with that . But like I think the yellow flags are harder because it's not that big of a deal . You , it's not that big of a deal .

Speaker 2 11:22

You don't want to make a big deal , you don't want to turn it into a red flag , you want to turn it into a green flag , like it's okay , but don't pocket them . I think that's what I did . I never even addressed it , I never talked about them .

Speaker 1 11:36

I literally put them in my pocket . Could you give me an example of a yellow flag ?

Speaker 2 11:44

And it can be from anything that you wish you would have just had a conversation about instead of pocketing it . Yeah , one of the issues I won't go too deep into it , but it was mental health struggles and doing something to address that was never talked about . It was a very negative thing , like going to get help getting a medication . Talking to somebody was a very like no , we're not going to do that . I'm bigger than that , I'm better than that . So as soon as I saw that come up , I knew that was her stance on it . So it was never talked about .

Speaker 2 12:07

So I just put the pocket in my pocket , thinking that's okay , she wants me forever . Those issues will go away and they don't , they do not .

Speaker 1 12:14

No , okay , so anyone listening ? Don't put the yellow flags in your pocket . Red flags are a big no , walk the other way .

Speaker 2 12:22

Yellow flags have the conversation Wave them in the air , wave them in the no .

Speaker 1 12:25

Walk the other way . Yellow flags , have the conversation . Wave them in the air . Wave them in the air , have the conversation I do . That is something that I wish , and I know you and I have talked about this like I wish I would have been braver enough to have hard conversations right away , because then it would just either take the elephant out of the room Everyone knows where we stand and you can make decisions better instead of thinking , well , it's going to get better , yeah , or I can change their mind or I'm sure , with enough love because all we need is love that it will all work itself out .

Speaker 2 12:52

That's so true and I think early on I didn't want to push , I didn't want to step on toes , I didn't want to upset her . So I tiptoed around it and was like , do you want to talk about it ? And her lack of talking about it was a sign for me that I should have been like this needs to be talked about . But talking about it more just made the problems worse , which is another sign .

Speaker 1 13:11

Because I also am thinking to myself yes , it was her issue , okay . But how much am I showing my self-worth right when we are standing up for ourselves , when we are putting ourselves first , when we allow someone to say , nope , we're not going to talk about that , and we're like , oh , okay , are we automatically telling ourselves , now , well , my feelings aren't important , and then they're not valid ? So it's like the first step of self-abandonment is when someone's like we're not talking about that and you are like , okay , cool , instead of saying like , no , my feelings are just as valid in this and I am worth it . I am worth this hard conversation , I am worth whatever fight is about to happen . And if you can't see that , it's like a way for you to stand up for yourself .

Speaker 2 13:51

A hundred percent and the best . Today I'd definitely stand up and have the conversation , because sometimes I just talk too much . Back then my self-worth was so little that that's what happened . Her word was the word , the word . So when she didn't want to talk about it , I was like yes , ma'am , we're not talking about it . I would have never questioned it . I would have never been like but wait , are you sure ? The person I am now would have been like I'm not okay with that . Yeah , let's talk about it when you're ready . But that was not 100% , and I can see my self-worth has changed so much since I was married until now where , if I'm not getting what I want , I would have never backed down and been like oh okay , that's cool , let's just leave it there . Now I'm like no , we get to talk about it , but I think that's the flag that I pocketed . Instead of pulling it out and being like , let's talk about it , I was like okay , nope , you don't want to , sweet , I think that's really hard , it's really hard .

Speaker 1 14:50

It's scary and it's hard when you love someone because it's like I might have to leave this person . If I have this conversation and I totally understand everyone who you know those emotions run deep and that love runs deep , and especially if your self-worth is not where it needs to be . It is just like I just don't want to lose this person . But that's where I keep coming back to like if I love myself enough , I would be okay with saying like well , I got to lose you .

Speaker 2 15:10

Then , yeah , like this is where I'm at . And I think too , I was so scared to push because I knew if I pushed she would get angry and explosive To the chaos . Yeah , and I would just be like , oh God , I'd bring down . And I'm like , oh my God , what should I do ? So I avoided it , where now I don't avoid tough conversations , but I do agree , having them early on would avoid that in the long term . But I was not in a place back then . I was much younger

Standing Up for Self Worth

Speaker 2 15:39

. Obviously I would have never known to even have that conversation . But now it's like hindsight , looking back , I'm like , well , duh .

Speaker 1 15:46

I know it's like dang it and that's the thing is , like I could have avoided heartbreak . I could have avoided a lot of things . However , because of that , it catapulted you into this . Like I got to get my shit together . Something is not okay . This should not have happened . What do I need to do ? Because of that , and as sucky as heartbreaks are , it just catapults you . If you do it , if you're willing to look within , that's . The other thing I'm going to say is , like , not a lot of people are willing to sit with their self and be like I'm not going to blame the other person because it was me , yeah , and not because everything was me . Maybe some things were them , but like , at the end of the day , like what was my part in this ?

Speaker 2 16:23

Right , we all had accountability and both of us had accountability in it to a certain degree . I mean , I definitely first year I took full blame , I fell on me and then I had hindsight a little bit later , like maybe it was her , regardless we're . I mean it's fine now , but had that not happened , I don't know where I'd be . That was literally life-changing Good . You know . We got married and at the time it was the best thing ever . Then I hit rock bottom . But had I not hit rock bottom , I'd never be where I am today , like I don't know the person that I would still be if I was mentally , emotionally , still that same way . It's wild to think had you met me 10 years ago you'd be like who is this , who is this girl ?

Speaker 1 17:02

Isn't that crazy . I don't know . Like sometimes I don't want to like thank people that broke me or broke my heart or whatever , but it's like also thank you , don't need to thank you hard . Also thank you because you've made me into this amazing person . And also you oh , you can't have my energy . But we've talked about your self-worth . We've talked about pocketing yellow flags and just knowing your worth and knowing yourself . Let me ask you this what does healing look like for you ? How do you know you're healed ?

Speaker 2 17:27

I don't know if I'll ever know if I'm like 100% healed , but I know . I think it's twofold . I have a vision in my head that I have this big old toolbox , lots of drawers and tools that I can pull out . So when I'm feeling a way I know how to handle it , because I

The Healing Toolbox Approach

Speaker 2 17:46

think I'm always going to be . There's always going to be something I need to heal from , whether it's like family , friends , love . Things happen . I can't avoid that . But I feel I have a bigger toolbox that I can be like oh , this is the problem . I've got the right tool to get me through it and not stay in a place where I'm not happy .

Speaker 1 18:06

Like where you get stuck Right Because it's kind of like , okay , I'm feeling this , yeah , I have three different things I can do to get myself out , instead of just like wallowing .

Speaker 2 18:13

Right and staying in a negative space , I know how to get myself out quicker than maybe I did before . So I can envision this like toolbox . I'm like , okay , I know how to . I've read stuff about it . I know how to handle this . Bring it , let me try it . So that's what I think of . Like I said , I don't think I'll ever be healed , but how to handle life , I feel like I have a big toolbox .

Speaker 1 18:37

Yeah , I don't think we're ever healed , because I feel like new triggers come up and then you're like , oh son of a bitch .

Speaker 2 18:41

It's like I don't have the right tool for this .

Speaker 1 18:42

I don't have the right tool , or like something still hurts , Like a little wound still opens up , but I can tell I'm healing . When A I don't react the same way , B I can acknowledge like ooh , that triggered something .

Speaker 2 19:01

I think for me it's not . I'm quick to react , so if something like zaps me , I'm like , oh shit , that hurt . Maybe in the past I would instantly react and like talk or get upset . But when I have that trigger , I think first , like you said , identifying it like oh , I'm triggered . Have that trigger , I think first , like you said , identifying it like oh , I'm triggered . No , let me go find the right tool instead of just reacting out of pure emotion . Identifying when that happens is so big and that's when you take the moment to think , oh , my God that just happened and you're not letting the moment control you .

Speaker 1 19:32

I wish more people understood that when they're feeling triggered and they want to just lash out at someone for whatever reason , right , and they justly I think that's the right word they are justified to feel whatever way they want to feel . But I wish more people understood that those triggers are what's showing you parts of you that are still needing love , that are still needing grace , and it's okay to feel that way . And the quicker you're able to say like whoa , I am feeling this , the quicker you are able to deal with the problem instead of maybe lashing out about it or going off at a friend or doing something so stupid that you normally wouldn't . And now you have to repair all of this other stuff because you weren't just like dude , I'm being triggered right now .

Speaker 2 20:16

Yes , taking the five-second rule or whatever . It is where you're triggered and instead of just like , oh , react , blow up , get mad , say nasty things , do the box breathing . Yeah , taking that second to be like , oh shit , yeah , something's going to blow . Let me just take a minute and then uncover what is about to happen .

Speaker 1 20:34

Yeah , yeah , I can do that . Okay , as we are getting toward the end , wrapping it up , I'm wondering if there's anything else you would like to share with our thousands of listeners in A either the importance of healing , the importance of being reflective , or self-worth

Gratitude and Moving Forward

Speaker 1 20:50

.

Speaker 2 20:50

I'll say and this might be not what you were thinking , but so I journal daily . But I think one thing that's really helped me too is being grateful . And so at the end of the day , I always end my day writing what I'm grateful for , because to me it's like it ties everything together , like I don't care how bad my day was . I know I'm going to bed , this is what I'm thankful for . And being grateful , being grateful , giving it , receiving it is great , but giving it and just sharing like how grateful you are . I know some people may get like annoyed by it , but I feel like there's just not enough of it . Yeah , finding myself doing that every single night and writing down at least three things , three simple things , something as simple as the sun was out today , yeah , ties up my day so great that I just want to share it and be like everybody just needs to just take it right down and your day with being grateful . It just makes my heart smile .

Speaker 1 21:44

I think that's great . I think that's great and I'm grateful that you have shared that . I'm also very grateful that you share your story . Like , it is not easy to come on a podcast with thousands of listeners , hi . It is not easy to also share about a divorce or a past relationship and to own . Hey , I had to look at myself . I had to do X , y and Z , and there's plenty of people that are going through stuff right now , and I'm just very thankful that you're willing to do this . Thanks for having me . Yeah , pretty much , we should do it again . Okay , all right , friends , we are going to wrap it up and I look forward to talking with you again next Sunday . So until then , please stay cute and dance even though nobody's , watching .

Speaker 1 22:26

So until next Sunday , stay cute and remember dance , even if everyone is watching . Bye .