Go Ask Sawyer
Go Ask Sawyer
A Kitchen Conversation with Beth: Finding Independence After Marriage
Beth shares her decade-long healing journey from divorce, revealing how losing her marriage helped her discover she'd never truly found herself. We explore the difference between healthy independence and over-independence, why yellow flags deserve as much attention as red ones, and how building a metaphorical toolbox helps navigate future challenges.
• Moving from blame to accountability as the first step in healing
• Losing independence before marriage and transferring dependency from twin sister to spouse
• Starting small with solo activities to rebuild confidence and self-reliance
• Learning to wave yellow flags instead of pocketing them in relationships
• Standing up for your worth through difficult conversations
• Building an emotional toolbox for handling triggers and challenges
• Finding balance between independence and willingness to share life with someone
• Using daily gratitude journaling to end each day on a positive note
Follow me on Instagram @goasksawyer
Hey, welcome back. This is Go Ask Sawyer, and I am, jamie, your host, and welcome to Season 5. Season 5 is all about putting the microphone in your hands. I want to hear what you have to say when it comes to things that you have healed from. I've talked far and wide about everything that I have gone through, anything that I have felt, and I really want to hear from you because I think the best way we learn is through community and through other people. So today I have Beth on the podcast. Beth, do you want to say hi, hi, and she's going to talk about her healing journey, an event or something that she had to heal from, because, again, it doesn't always have to be. You know, a lot of us talk about we had to heal from family or friends or breakups, and everyone has a different story. So, beth, what is an event, what is something that you want to talk about that you've healed from or are in the process? Because healing is, of course a journey cyclical or a journey.
Speaker 2:Okay, so for me, thank you for having me. For me, I would say my, and that was again fully healed. I think it's you worked through it, but I would say my divorce for sure. And what did you ask me? How I heal, how are you?
Speaker 1:Okay, so well, let's start with that. You're divorced. That was how long ago, gosh, it's been so long, I don't even know. Oh, like 10 years, 10, 11 years. So this has been a 10-year process. And let me ask you this, because I don't know if we all know right when things happen. Did you know you had to heal then, or is this something that you've been like dang, this is not going away, or this issue? I need to do some working.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't hindsight when it happened I didn't think. I thought I was like I don't need healing, like I'm fine. She was the problem, not me. Until maybe like a year after, when we tried to reconcile our differences and I'm like this is just not it and my self worth went to the toilet. So it was like a year after. I'm like this is not something's wrong, I need to repair something.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like you had to repair something yourself 100%, like, 100% me. I knew it was all me. So what have you done? What are like? We all have tools. What are some things that have been helpful to you, or what are some things that you're doing?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing I did was to admit that it was that I needed to fix me and not put blame on her, because I think that was the easy fix to be like she's a problem, yeah. But I went to counseling for a while. So much came out of that and we can get into that if you want. So much came out of that and I was like, wait, there was so much that I needed to unpack. That wasn't just her and I, and that was like childhood type stuff, yeah, and if it wasn't for that, I don't think I would have ever been to where I'm at now. So the first thing was counseling and I think, admitting that it wasn't all her, that it was me. I'm like I need to fix me before I can carry on.
Speaker 1:Is there like one or two big things that you notice in yourself that, like, example, anger or jealousy or communication I'm trying to think of, like things in me that I'm working on? Were there one or two things that you're like, dang I, this isn't. This is an issue. And if it did, come from childhood?
Speaker 2:Yes, 100% yes. I think one thing that came out of it was and one thing I never thought I've lost my independence and I didn't even know I lost it and it really had nothing even to do with my marriage. So I'm an identical twin and up to that point everything I did was with my twin. And then I got married and then it shifted and I kind of put my independence like cohabitating with my wife. So after we divorced I was like I don't have anything and I relied on, like my sister for everything. And I think, going through counseling it was like how do I find me after divorce? Because I used to have my twin who then was in a relationship. Yeah, like I have nobody. And it was such a dark time and I was like, wait, I need to find me. And counseling helped me realize you can do stuff on your own, it's going to be okay. So I think that was the biggest thing for me was finding my independence and not relying on somebody else to constantly fill my bubble.
Speaker 1:So for anyone else that's listening and they're like, oh my gosh, we went through something similar, or I've lost myself, or I don't know how to do things alone. I always have to have someone, people right. Like we become this, like, how do I do this? Like, how did you find your independence? I?
Speaker 2:think it started small and I think I remember one day I left counseling and we were talking about starting small and just whatever it was. I think maybe going grocery shopping or something alone starting small, just doing it and not thinking about it I mean hindsight now I'm an overanalyzer Just to do it and not think about it. I still struggle now with saying yes to things without overanalyzing, but at that time it was like just do the small things by yourself. And when I started doing them more often I was like, oh my gosh, where is this better money? Why haven't I been doing these things by myself the entire time? Yeah, because I think we always take the easy route and just do it with somebody else. Yeah, the small things, very small.
Speaker 1:Okay. So telling anyone out there like, start small right. Like go to a park by yourself, go grocery shopping by yourself. The more you do small things it just becomes Habit, habit, natural. How do you feel you are now?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I've found, even after the divorce, going through counseling, I, after my divorce, I hit rock bottom. I literally had nothing. I was living with my twin sister at the time and going through counseling, trying to go through the loss of my wife and trying to find myself again. So I think I slowly started to write goals for myself physically writing them down, not just like, oh, someday I'd like to buy a house. Physically wrote down I want to buy a house, bought my house 10 years ago, moved in here with nothing and doing the things on my own to make this. My own house has taught me so much about myself knowing I can do all this on my own. When I started with the counseling, knowing that my issue was not being able to function without somebody there all the time Okay. And now it's. Now it's my home and this is all I know is independence. Yeah, okay, so I do have a question about that.
Speaker 1:This is all I know is independence. Do you think you know how to be in relationship to to depend on someone, or do you think you've gone so far over this way that now you're so terrified Maybe terrified is not the right word, no, that might be my first word so terrified to go slip back into, like what if someone takes it from me again that I don't even want to allow, I don't want to say someone in, but like that whole idea of like falling back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you asked me that, I feel like my throat just got tight, like, yes, sharing my space with somebody a day or two, a couple of days is fine, but I've always told myself I love bath time and I do. Yeah, but I also want to know what it's like to live with somebody and to have a love with somebody. So I don't know what that's like. I'd like to say I don't need the independence and I don't want that forever, but it does scare me. Yeah, need the independence and I don't want that forever, but it does scare me Thinking of sharing my house with somebody and breaking my habits which they need to be broke, because I'm a creature of habit it scares me to death.
Speaker 1:I mean I will say I haven't lived with anyone for a long time, but I would also. It's easy to date when you're not living with someone or when you're just spending like little bits of time because you know eventually they're going to leave. You can go back into your way of living. You can put everything back in its spot. You don't have to like for me, I just apparently like to be messy. I mean, I know how messy I like to be until my boys have moved out. If I come home and I'm like, why is it such a mess in here? And I'm like, dang it, it's me. And then I'm like what if I start dating someone and then we've been together and now I have to be clean again?
Speaker 1:I think there's a good balance. I do think there's a balance and sometimes I need. I think right now I'm in a weird space of I've never been here before with no children to like have to do anything for. Yeah, so it's like a different kind of freedom. But I do like the dance of you teach me some things, you teach me some things, like we teach each other things, where we both have to let go of habits here and there.
Speaker 2:Yes, because I know I'm a creature of habit. So when things are like out of place and sometimes I panic, I know that it's just a temporary thing and bigger picture, like, if I want somebody in my life long term, that's such a minor thing to worry about, but it does. It does. It's in the back of my mind. I am giving up my not my freedom because I want to give that up. Like I want to share my space with somebody and if it's the right, person.
Speaker 1:Is it giving up your freedom, or is it just seeing it in a different way?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it's. It's in sharing my life with me, because my life here is great, but I want to share it. It's not fun picking up my own mess no it's really not.
Speaker 1:And my dog and cat? No one helps out. Gunnar doesn't help and Oliver doesn't help, and, if anything, oliver makes a bigger mess with my plants. Okay. So independence finding yourself maybe a little bit over independent, yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess I never thought about that until you just asked how I came from having to always. You know, even before I got married, my relationships were always short, sweet move on to the next one and then I got married.
Speaker 2:And then I got married and then I realized, like why did I always think I needed somebody? I don't need somebody constantly. And now I'm completely opposite of that. Like since my breakup I've had one serious relationship, and it's been how many years. So it's funny now that you say that I'm understanding that I craved dependency at the time. Now it's like am I over independent? So I think that's. Thank you for bringing that up. You're very well. Now it's like am I over independent? So I think that's it.
Speaker 1:Thank you for bringing that up. You're very welcome. That's a suitcase you can unpack. Yes, it's a big one. But what are some other things maybe that have come out of your marriage that you're like man if I would have done this different, or if I would have done this different, maybe I could have let different things go. That's tough. Besides the, independence thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because when I was married, and even after that, I didn't even realize that was an issue. But I think it maybe goes back to seeing some of the I'll call them like yellow flags early, because it was the honeymoon phase and I thought this is it, this is forever. I pocketed those like oh, it'll be fine once we're married because she wants to be with me forever. And then once that commitment was made, the skeletons came out of the closet. But they were there. I just ignored them originally. So I think had they come out earlier, maybe we talked about them, they would have been easier to handle. But the signs were there early on and I just kind of put them away like nope, this is what I want is a marriage, this is what everybody wants. And you know, I had the person at that time thinking this is it. I'm like I ignored those flags early on and I shouldn't have.
Speaker 1:That's very annoying to ignore in hindsight right, like I was listening to a podcast today about how we see so clearly when we the only way we like learning in life and seeing clearly, understanding was when we look backwards and you can clearly see like, oh my gosh, this has happened because of this, this and this. But like moving into the future, like we just can't see it. We're so blind to it. And the yellow flags, the red flags I feel like we see and we're having fun at the circus and we just don't want to deal with that. But like I think the yellow flags are harder because it's not that big of a deal. You, it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 2:You don't want to make a big deal, you don't want to turn it into a red flag, you want to turn it into a green flag, like it's okay, but don't pocket them. I think that's what I did. I never even addressed it, I never talked about them.
Speaker 1:I literally put them in my pocket. Could you give me an example of a yellow flag?
Speaker 2:And it can be from anything that you wish you would have just had a conversation about instead of pocketing it. Yeah, one of the issues I won't go too deep into it, but it was mental health struggles and doing something to address that was never talked about. It was a very negative thing, like going to get help getting a medication. Talking to somebody was a very like no, we're not going to do that. I'm bigger than that, I'm better than that. So as soon as I saw that come up, I knew that was her stance on it. So it was never talked about.
Speaker 2:So I just put the pocket in my pocket, thinking that's okay, she wants me forever. Those issues will go away and they don't, they do not.
Speaker 1:No, okay, so anyone listening? Don't put the yellow flags in your pocket. Red flags are a big no, walk the other way.
Speaker 2:Yellow flags have the conversation Wave them in the air, wave them in the no.
Speaker 1:Walk the other way. Yellow flags, have the conversation. Wave them in the air. Wave them in the air, have the conversation I do. That is something that I wish, and I know you and I have talked about this like I wish I would have been braver enough to have hard conversations right away, because then it would just either take the elephant out of the room Everyone knows where we stand and you can make decisions better instead of thinking, well, it's going to get better, yeah, or I can change their mind or I'm sure, with enough love because all we need is love that it will all work itself out.
Speaker 2:That's so true and I think early on I didn't want to push, I didn't want to step on toes, I didn't want to upset her. So I tiptoed around it and was like, do you want to talk about it? And her lack of talking about it was a sign for me that I should have been like this needs to be talked about. But talking about it more just made the problems worse, which is another sign.
Speaker 1:Because I also am thinking to myself yes, it was her issue, okay. But how much am I showing my self-worth right when we are standing up for ourselves, when we are putting ourselves first, when we allow someone to say, nope, we're not going to talk about that, and we're like, oh, okay, are we automatically telling ourselves, now, well, my feelings aren't important, and then they're not valid? So it's like the first step of self-abandonment is when someone's like we're not talking about that and you are like, okay, cool, instead of saying like, no, my feelings are just as valid in this and I am worth it. I am worth this hard conversation, I am worth whatever fight is about to happen. And if you can't see that, it's like a way for you to stand up for yourself.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent and the best. Today I'd definitely stand up and have the conversation, because sometimes I just talk too much. Back then my self-worth was so little that that's what happened. Her word was the word, the word. So when she didn't want to talk about it, I was like yes, ma'am, we're not talking about it. I would have never questioned it. I would have never been like but wait, are you sure? The person I am now would have been like I'm not okay with that. Yeah, let's talk about it when you're ready. But that was not 100%, and I can see my self-worth has changed so much since I was married until now where, if I'm not getting what I want, I would have never backed down and been like oh okay, that's cool, let's just leave it there. Now I'm like no, we get to talk about it, but I think that's the flag that I pocketed. Instead of pulling it out and being like, let's talk about it, I was like okay, nope, you don't want to, sweet, I think that's really hard, it's really hard.
Speaker 1:It's scary and it's hard when you love someone because it's like I might have to leave this person. If I have this conversation and I totally understand everyone who you know those emotions run deep and that love runs deep, and especially if your self-worth is not where it needs to be. It is just like I just don't want to lose this person. But that's where I keep coming back to like if I love myself enough, I would be okay with saying like well, I got to lose you.
Speaker 2:Then, yeah, like this is where I'm at. And I think too, I was so scared to push because I knew if I pushed she would get angry and explosive To the chaos. Yeah, and I would just be like, oh God, I'd bring down. And I'm like, oh my God, what should I do? So I avoided it, where now I don't avoid tough conversations, but I do agree, having them early on would avoid that in the long term. But I was not in a place back then. I was much younger. Obviously I would have never known to even have that conversation. But now it's like hindsight, looking back, I'm like, well, duh.
Speaker 1:I know it's like dang it and that's the thing is, like I could have avoided heartbreak. I could have avoided a lot of things. However, because of that, it catapulted you into this. Like I got to get my shit together. Something is not okay. This should not have happened. What do I need to do? Because of that, and as sucky as heartbreaks are, it just catapults you. If you do it, if you're willing to look within, that's. The other thing I'm going to say is, like, not a lot of people are willing to sit with their self and be like I'm not going to blame the other person because it was me, yeah, and not because everything was me. Maybe some things were them, but like, at the end of the day, like what was my part in this?
Speaker 2:Right, we all had accountability and both of us had accountability in it to a certain degree. I mean, I definitely first year I took full blame, I fell on me and then I had hindsight a little bit later, like maybe it was her, regardless we're. I mean it's fine now, but had that not happened, I don't know where I'd be. That was literally life-changing Good. You know. We got married and at the time it was the best thing ever. Then I hit rock bottom. But had I not hit rock bottom, I'd never be where I am today, like I don't know the person that I would still be if I was mentally, emotionally, still that same way. It's wild to think had you met me 10 years ago you'd be like who is this, who is this girl?
Speaker 1:Isn't that crazy. I don't know. Like sometimes I don't want to like thank people that broke me or broke my heart or whatever, but it's like also thank you, don't need to thank you hard. Also thank you because you've made me into this amazing person. And also you oh, you can't have my energy. But we've talked about your self-worth. We've talked about pocketing yellow flags and just knowing your worth and knowing yourself. Let me ask you this what does healing look like for you? How do you know you're healed?
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'll ever know if I'm like 100% healed, but I know. I think it's twofold. I have a vision in my head that I have this big old toolbox, lots of drawers and tools that I can pull out. So when I'm feeling a way I know how to handle it, because I think I'm always going to be. There's always going to be something I need to heal from, whether it's like family, friends, love. Things happen. I can't avoid that. But I feel I have a bigger toolbox that I can be like oh, this is the problem. I've got the right tool to get me through it and not stay in a place where I'm not happy.
Speaker 1:Like where you get stuck Right Because it's kind of like, okay, I'm feeling this, yeah, I have three different things I can do to get myself out, instead of just like wallowing.
Speaker 2:Right and staying in a negative space, I know how to get myself out quicker than maybe I did before. So I can envision this like toolbox. I'm like, okay, I know how to. I've read stuff about it. I know how to handle this. Bring it, let me try it. So that's what I think of. Like I said, I don't think I'll ever be healed, but how to handle life, I feel like I have a big toolbox.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think we're ever healed, because I feel like new triggers come up and then you're like, oh son of a bitch.
Speaker 2:It's like I don't have the right tool for this.
Speaker 1:I don't have the right tool, or like something still hurts, Like a little wound still opens up, but I can tell I'm healing. When A I don't react the same way, B I can acknowledge like ooh, that triggered something.
Speaker 2:I think for me it's not. I'm quick to react, so if something like zaps me, I'm like, oh shit, that hurt. Maybe in the past I would instantly react and like talk or get upset. But when I have that trigger, I think first, like you said, identifying it like oh, I'm triggered. Have that trigger, I think first, like you said, identifying it like oh, I'm triggered. No, let me go find the right tool instead of just reacting out of pure emotion. Identifying when that happens is so big and that's when you take the moment to think, oh, my God that just happened and you're not letting the moment control you.
Speaker 1:I wish more people understood that when they're feeling triggered and they want to just lash out at someone for whatever reason, right, and they justly I think that's the right word they are justified to feel whatever way they want to feel. But I wish more people understood that those triggers are what's showing you parts of you that are still needing love, that are still needing grace, and it's okay to feel that way. And the quicker you're able to say like whoa, I am feeling this, the quicker you are able to deal with the problem instead of maybe lashing out about it or going off at a friend or doing something so stupid that you normally wouldn't. And now you have to repair all of this other stuff because you weren't just like dude, I'm being triggered right now.
Speaker 2:Yes, taking the five-second rule or whatever. It is where you're triggered and instead of just like, oh, react, blow up, get mad, say nasty things, do the box breathing. Yeah, taking that second to be like, oh shit, yeah, something's going to blow. Let me just take a minute and then uncover what is about to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I can do that. Okay, as we are getting toward the end, wrapping it up, I'm wondering if there's anything else you would like to share with our thousands of listeners in A either the importance of healing, the importance of being reflective, or self-worth.
Speaker 2:I'll say and this might be not what you were thinking, but so I journal daily. But I think one thing that's really helped me too is being grateful. And so at the end of the day, I always end my day writing what I'm grateful for, because to me it's like it ties everything together, like I don't care how bad my day was. I know I'm going to bed, this is what I'm thankful for. And being grateful, being grateful, giving it, receiving it is great, but giving it and just sharing like how grateful you are. I know some people may get like annoyed by it, but I feel like there's just not enough of it. Yeah, finding myself doing that every single night and writing down at least three things, three simple things, something as simple as the sun was out today, yeah, ties up my day so great that I just want to share it and be like everybody just needs to just take it right down and your day with being grateful. It just makes my heart smile.
Speaker 1:I think that's great. I think that's great and I'm grateful that you have shared that. I'm also very grateful that you share your story. Like, it is not easy to come on a podcast with thousands of listeners, hi. It is not easy to also share about a divorce or a past relationship and to own. Hey, I had to look at myself. I had to do X, y and Z, and there's plenty of people that are going through stuff right now, and I'm just very thankful that you're willing to do this. Thanks for having me. Yeah, pretty much, we should do it again. Okay, all right, friends, we are going to wrap it up and I look forward to talking with you again next Sunday. So until then, please stay cute and dance even though nobody's, watching.
Speaker 1:So until next Sunday, stay cute and remember dance, even if everyone is watching. Bye.
