Go Ask Sawyer
Go Ask Sawyer
Backyard Conversations with Toya: Friends Who See You and Let You Return
We explore what makes healthy friendships, how they evolve over time, and why these connections are essential to our wellbeing.
• Healthy friendships include people who cheer for you, show up when you're vulnerable, and lovingly call you out when needed
• True friends welcome you back after periods of absence without judgment
• Outgrowing friendships often happens naturally through distance rather than confrontation
• Our approach to friendship is heavily influenced by what we observed in our parents
• Friendship represents one of the most unconditional forms of love in our lives
• Deep friendships allow us to be seen and accepted through different life phases
• The isolation from missing friendship connections can significantly impact mental health
• Supporting friends should come naturally without having to be explicitly asked
• Being honest about the state of your friendships and how you show up as a friend is crucial
Let's be honest about our friends, check in with ourselves about how we show up as friends, and remember to be loud and dance even when everyone is watching.
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Hello and happy Sunday. Welcome back to Go Ask Sawyer. This is episode two, with Toya from Universal Tees discussing life, discussing all issues that we have, and today we are focused on friendships, our circle and who we surround ourselves with and everything that goes with it. So welcome, thank you. Yeah, happy Sunday. Yeah, okay, so let's start with asking what does a healthy friendship look like?
Speaker 2:A healthy friendship.
Speaker 1:And I've thought about this too.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, you go first. Okay, I need some ideas.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So when I think of people right now because I feel like my idea of healthy friendship has changed throughout but right now I'm looking at my friends that are cheering me on loudly and quietly, friends that are showing up when I need them, in moments from when I'm feeling vulnerable, yeah, friends that call me out, which I do feel like I have friends that call me out, and it's it is hard to hear, but I know I need to hear it. Yeah, just as last year I had my first experience of like I was going through a breakup and I already felt stupid about the breakup. Speaking with that's bad.
Speaker 2:Sorry, but no, no, yes Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cussing is allowed. Okay, but I felt stupid and I I was starting spiraling and I thought to myself like I need to reach out. So I text three different friends and I just said I am spiraling and I'm really sad and I need support. And that text was so hard for me to send but they literally were like you're amazing, you're wonderful, spiral, feel it. They allowed me to be vulnerable, they allowed me to be sad and then said some cool things and I appreciate that so much because I feel like I'm a really good cheerleader and support. But I have a hard time allowing it in, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I agree. So we're talking about what friendship means to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like what does a healthy friendship look like or feel like?
Speaker 2:So I think healthy friendship has grown as I have. So it looked different in childhood. Healthy friendship was we always share lunches. You know, Middle school healthy friendship is you're a part of my crew. You don't talk to nobody else. We don't have another best friend. You know, high school best friend is like oh, you show up to my dance performances. You know we go to each other's house, we go to parties together, and I think, though, the most mature and evolved friendship to me is just what you described Like friends who will be there no matter what, who do call you out, but they do so lovingly. I think a huge part of friendship for me is trust trusting the advice, trusting the accountability, trusting all of those things to be genuine, and I think, right now, honest friendship for me has been my friends allowing me to return.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's huge.
Speaker 2:And welcoming me back, because I have also had moments when I've gone you know, missing per se, or I'm not as vocal, and you know things come up, there's important events, I'll be there, but I'm just not as present. Or, you know, I've gone through things that have caused me to isolate and withdraw and they welcome me back and with accountability, like I've had friends be like. Actually, I haven't heard from you in this amount of time. I feel this way about it. We need to talk about that, way about it. We need to talk about that versus a friend. That's just like you know, whatever, like we're done with this friendship because I haven't heard.
Speaker 1:So I think that all of that is healthy I think I wish I had more friends that would maybe hold me accountable in that way, like, hey, I haven't seen you or heard from you, like they're giving you space because maybe they know I need it. But also, where are you? Yeah, like, are you cool? Are you cool? Are you chill? Like do you need something? And the other thing I've experienced from friends recently again, as we get older, things are different yeah, people asking you to do things yes, I am a.
Speaker 1:I have a problem with needing to include everyone. I'm going to call all of my friends and we're going to go to the beach and then we're going to all go to this concert. Yeah. And I stop sometimes and think, like dang, who's inviting me? Yeah, and recently I have a few friends who just they keep putting out invites and I. It makes me, even if I can't go, it just makes me feel included, like they're thinking of me. Hey, jamie, I think you would have loved this walk. I want you to come. So that to me, is also like healthy friendship. You don't even need to invite me everywhere, right. But like being considered yeah, being considered, being considered Is huge, yeah, so that's healthy friendship. What do you think about when we know maybe we've outgrown friendships. Have you outgrown friendships? Have you had that happen? Because I have a hard time letting people go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I actually don't think I've actively outgrown the friendship. I think there have been some friendships that have not necessarily ended. They just have got this thing. I think I don't think I've outgrown friendships, which is crazy right, because at this day and age it's like you know you outgrow friends, or maybe I just haven't felt the. I feel like when I think about outgrow friendship, there's this confrontation that comes with it. Yeah, where it's like I think about outgrow friendship, there's this confrontation that comes with it, yeah, where it's like I have to tell you that I don't mess with you no more and that I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2:I think I just have friendships that are just that naturally distant, that naturally distant themselves, yeah. Outgrowing certainties, because I have friends that allow me to grow, yeah, and I think that's an honor that a lot of people don't get. Like, my growth and the things that and the ways that I've changed and my aspirations, has not made any of my friends ever be like you're doing too much, yeah, or like I haven't gotten that, that, if anything, my friends are still cheering and celebrating me on. They're like girl, I ain't about to do all that for more power to you. So I don't think I've outgrown friendship and maybe that's just still a very immature mindset. Maybe that's the people pleading me not wanting to say like I'm done with this. You know group of people, but it's like I don't think I've outgrown any friendships. I think some of them just have naturally distanced themselves. They are not as active, but I do still think a lot of those people. If I needed something I could call them, or if I'm in town where they live, they wouldn't mind hanging out.
Speaker 1:I do think you're very lucky in that. Yeah, and I will say I don't know if I've outgrown friendships only in that I realized when I was around certain people, they were doing things I didn't want to do anymore. Yeah, they were going out a lot and I was like this isn't me or I didn't want to do anymore. Yeah, they were going out a lot and I was like this isn't me, or I didn't like how I felt around them. Yeah, I'd be like gasping a lot, okay, but it wasn't like I hate you, like I still send love. Yeah, I just, I just distanced.
Speaker 2:I have that too, yeah, but again, I can't tell my friends that like I don't want to go out, and they're like, okay, well, just come, we'll kick it in the house. So they're accommodating. They hear you, they hear me.
Speaker 1:They're not saying well, if you don't want to do this, then you shouldn't be around, then we can't be friends anymore.
Speaker 2:I haven't had that and that's awesome. And so, yeah, I think maybe I'm fortunate, maybe I'm just like. There are certain friends who I have now that still live very much like go to the club, they're going to drink and things like that, and I don't do that, but I don't think I had to announce it, like if I turn it down, they're not making me feel bad about it.
Speaker 1:You're not like, and so I am not going out anymore.
Speaker 2:Stop calling it just wasn't Like. My friends know I like being at home. Yeah, friends know I like being at home, yeah, and they like being outside and it's like, well, you well you want to be inside, like we can keep it inside. So it's not.
Speaker 1:I haven't had that huge thing yet, yeah, you haven't had to break up. So this year was the first year I took a step back from a friend, a very, very good friend, from, like high school, because of politics, and that was really, really hard and I felt really, really, really shitty about it because all of a sudden I felt like a stereotype in a way. Good, olive bear and we have since, if she's listening we have since I did since reach out this last spring and I wanted to talk about it and reconcile as best I could, but that was, that was like the first time I wasn't breaking up, but I was just like I needed to take a step back right now because something feels weird and I think maybe that's what it was and I knew where I my stance was, yeah, and I was going to be very loud about it. Yeah, and she had a different stance and so that was hard. I mean, like that was hard and I haven't had that, yeah, and thank goodness for that.
Speaker 2:Like it's so that seems heavy and you haven't had that, yeah, and thank goodness for that like it's that seems heavy and you know what's crazy, though I think that also cause that sounds like a relationship and I know people say all the time friendships and relationships require a lot of that same work. But it's like in my mind I don't agree with that like why wouldn't you agree with?
Speaker 2:that I feel like friendships should be easy and when I say easy I know difficult conversation, I know you know things to get over, but like friendships should be safe, friendships should be like my rest in place. Yes, you know, I think like when we talk about relationship, that is a romantic relationship is what I mean. I think they are different, I think they require the same effort but different energy, if that makes sense. And so, like I don't got time for difficult friendships Right, and I think that's to my own bias, because a lot of my friendships have been since like I was young, so they, yeah, you know I've gone through phases with people. Yeah, and it hasn't I haven't had a huge thing like I don't know. Maybe that's just me.
Speaker 1:I mean, I, I have had another friend of mine from high school yeah, had a big blow up in our 20s and then didn't talk for like five years.
Speaker 1:But it was because she started dating someone and I got jealous and instead of and she like dropped off face to the earth and instead of us sitting down and talking about it and me saying like hey, I'm sad, we got in a huge fight and then didn't talk, yeah, but we came back together Like I also realized my role and my part in that, yeah, which I realize I keep a lot of things in and then I blow up and then things break.
Speaker 1:And then I am like dang, I did not mean to break that, yeah, yeah. And then I am like dang, I did not mean to break that, yeah, that is something that I'm working on. But if you're talking about your friendships are feeling soft and like a safe space, and a safe space that means maybe to me that I not that I don't have a safe space, but I don't know how to be safe with. But that also and maybe it's not outlawing maybe you just really have a great friend group that you're able to take a step back and be like I need a minute. So in that way, like you're really blessed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yes, and so I really am trying to think though because I don't think that's true Like I think a part of that is the people pleaser in me, and I told you on the last episode like I ghost people a lot. Yeah, so maybe I've decided that you're not my friend anymore. You don't even know.
Speaker 1:When you ghost people, do you take them out of your phone, do you block them or do you just?
Speaker 2:stop talking, I just stop communicating and I stop being around. I don't make it dramatic because I've already decided Right, Like it doesn't have to be. And the thing is I'm not I don't necessarily like hate you, yeah, it's just like I've decided that I don't want to be friends anymore. And you know, because I'm not doing things from when we were friends and I mean I'm very non-confrontational, which is also something that I'm working on changing. But if you were to ask me, I'd tell you like, yeah, no, I'm done.
Speaker 1:Do you think you want to be more confrontational? I want to be more confrontational.
Speaker 2:I want to be more direct. I want to communicate better so that everybody's clear yeah, I always.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I was taught this or if this is just like a societal thing that I feel like if I have a problem with you or with something that's happened, yeah, it's automatically confrontational, even if I just want to have a conversation with you yeah so that I'm automatically in my like, I have to have this really big talk and, oh my gosh, they might get upset, like all this stuff, where really, if we have a great friendship, I should just be able to sit down with you and be like, hey, this is really bothering me, or I feel like we're just not aligning, or whatever it may be Right, I automatically feel like that's confrontational, which I know it is not.
Speaker 2:That is confrontation, though it just helps you Like. Confrontation is anytime Like this is a confrontation Correct, yeah, but it's when it's difficult or strained confrontation, that's where it gets like. So yeah, because I feel like at this age, I should be able to say like, yeah, I've outgrown friends. Yeah, but I don't think I have because I don't know. Because I don't know, but maybe it's not about all growing, maybe it's just about seasons. The distance, though, exists, like it's just something that I know I'm not going to do anymore, and my friends respect it, though.
Speaker 1:So then to me, like they respect your boundaries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they respect my growth too, which I do feel like is sometimes not all the time, sometimes hard to find, yeah. So then let me ask you did your parents or did anyone in your life ever teach you how to make friends? Stop friendships. Yeah, because I don't. Not that my parents ever taught me that, but I'm trying to think like are we taught we're taught how to make friends, but are we really taught how to be like? Maybe they're not a great friend? Maybe you need to take this stuff away, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I laugh because I think my parents are very different when it comes to friendship. They're like my opposite ends of the spectrum. My dad is an extreme, like social butterfly. He's had the same friends since his 20s. You know my dad is almost 70. So his friends are his friends. Yeah, family, his friends are his 20s. You know my dad is almost seven, so his friends are his friend. Like, yeah, his family friends are his friend.
Speaker 2:And my mom doesn't have a lot of friends and she is also a lot more just, vigilant of people's energy and you know she just is more reserved in the sense of friendship and like bringing people in close to her. So she's always been the like uh-uh, you gotta watch everybody or you can't trust people. And even my grandmother like God rest her soul was always kind of like you gotta what is her favorite? Saying she was a woman. In many quotes she was hey, you gotta keep your eye on your enemy and your gun on your son, because the closest people to you are the ones that are going to do you the most harm. So friendship was never sacred to them, yeah. But to my dad, like friends were big things, like his friends are like his brothers yeah, so just two very different ends of the spectrum, and I realized that that exists. Both of those I'm done, yes, but also, yeah, I see both in me and there's nothing I can do about that, like my parents are my parents, so no, I think that's great.
Speaker 1:I'm just like, especially as a teacher and yeah, you're a teacher and patient, like I know we looked at our we both taught in middle school and we looked at our kids and sometimes we're like, oh, they should not be hanging out with so-and-so, or we instantly noticed when these people were hanging out and it's like you can see it, and it's so that I'm always thinking to myself like who's teaching?
Speaker 2:because I don't know if I was ever really thought, really taught yeah, it does, and I wasn't taught a lot and I think I struggle so much now with kind of that communication and that those conversations, because that's not how I grew up. Like Like I grew up with just like being told what it is and there was never discussion around it. It was just like that girl ain't your friend and you trusted your parents then, For the most part, yeah, as a kid right as an adult.
Speaker 2:Now I'm like I don't think that was the best yeah.
Speaker 1:Or like why did you feel?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as I grow now into my own woman, it's in my own intuition I can get it. I just don't think they communicated that well. So it was just kind of like what you mean? Like this is my friend, she's always around, but I'm not knowing like she's always around. She's using you Right, like you're not you know there's a reason.
Speaker 1:boys and all their friends are pretty cool, but I definitely, as they've come up from middle school to high school, like there were certain boys that would hang around that I was like I don't like them for you and I would voice it. But I also am trying to put it on them that, like that, this is your life and if I tell you who to hang around with or not, you're never going to learn how to discern yeah right, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what do you think you need? Because I think friendships are so important, like, even if you have two good friends, you do not need to have the ginormous circle. I always think that's great, but also sometimes overwhelming. Like two good friends that I can go to, yeah, why do you think friendships are a good one?
Speaker 2:Why are they so important? Like, how do they even make you better? How do they make us better? I think your friendships make you better because I think friendship is more of an unconditional love than romantic relationships. So, like I said, friendship is the most unconditional type of love that you can get. I think you know, because friendships welcome you as you are Real, real, healthy friendships. They welcome you as you are Real, real, healthy friendships. They welcome you as you are. They let you say what you need to say. They let you be who you need to be.
Speaker 2:They are not judgmental, like and I can't say that I'm mature, I don't go out anymore, but some of my friends are still my friends. When I was going out to the club, turnt up, drunk, all of these things, and they're not judging me Versus someone coming in. That's a certain set of standards that are like I don't like. Like oh, you did that or did you do that. When my friends are like hell, yeah, we was right there with her. And like now she is this amazing boss girl who's just doing what she's gotta do.
Speaker 2:So that you know what I mean yeah, like they let you fall down. They let you and they're gonna go down, they let you go through phase and they let you say and do like even with parents right, I think, about parents can be some of the most judgmental people. Yeah, you know what I mean. Parents don't understand you because they only see you from the lens of like nurture and protect at least good parents, like they want you sometimes to do what they envision you doing, whereas your friends are letting you be who they are and they're deciding that you still my girl, even though you've done this, said this, even though we've been through this like, you're still my person. So I think friendship is one of the most unconditional types of love and that's why I think it's important, because it lets you literally be, especially friendship that spans a long period of time yes, I think those are my favorite, like the ones that've seen you.
Speaker 1:I have a couple that I've seen me through high school, college, when I was straight, when I was gay. They saw me when I came out and I, like came out to them and they were like, well, duh, we were waiting for you to figure it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we knew before you did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they were the ones that were just there. So I think, like healthy friendships, good friendships, push you to be your best self, yeah, and they also hopefully help you stop making bad decisions, like they might let you make a few. Yeah, because we all have to fall down. Like when is that friendship gonna? Or that friend gonna be like okay. So here's you already said you weren't gonna do this and I let you do this like five times and I love you enough to be like okay. So here's the thing you already said you weren't going to do this and I let you do this like five times and I love you enough to say, like I need you to either stop or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know how I and I think that's why, like I had said, this last year was really hard for me. Like not being at my past job, my same friends weren't around me. Like I was trying to discover new people, like who do I trust at my new job? And it made me feel really isolated, absolutely, and that's not in a way where I'm like healing, like an isolated like I. Where are my people? Like you didn't get to see you down the hall. Like I, just I. You don't realize whether the friendship is like a deep connection or someone you see every day, that you trust, how that really does affect your mental, your day to day.
Speaker 2:So you are again telling my business with this idea of like, where are my people? I've been living in that, so I'm not from here, never have been here until the day I moved here. You know, I tell this story all the time and I really struggled so deeply with my people. I don't have my people. So I felt that isolation and there's even been. You know, I found good people that I like, but it's different when you know you already have this established baseline, this established support and being in a totally new city trying to navigate.
Speaker 2:You know, finding trusted friends and not just people that you relate to at the moment or not just people who you know y'all both cool or y'all both are in the same place is very difficult because it's like I can't just be in a rut and go drive to my friend's house or tell my friend, like let's go grab a drink, or you know, and the people I trust anyway, yeah and yes, you find good people that are in the moment, but it's like, can I really talk to you without the veil of like disclaimers, you know, or like having to give a backstory, whereas I can call my or be with my best friend from high school and there'll be something that I say or that happens and we can just have a look at each other and we know what it means and it's not misinterpreted. Yeah, and it does feel isolating when you don't feel like you have friends, like deep friendship. For me, friendship is very much like be moody.
Speaker 1:it's not just finding nice people so, yeah, and nice people are nice, but it's there's something different and you know how we have like seasonal depression here in the midwest. I recently realized like sometimes I feel like I'm depressed and it's like, oh no, I just need to go go out for a night with my friend or friends and I come home like on cloud nine and I'm like, oh my gosh, I just needed to see my friends. Like we forget as much as our skin and body needs the sun. Yeah, like our soul needs connection and not even just like our partner or our brother or our sister. Like there is something about that friend that like just sees you and gets you and even you can turn your brain off for a second and listen to their problems and you're like, like I miss my friends so much and I have friends back where you are from.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Really friends friends from where I'm from, and I met amazing people here but I can't help but always feel like I just got, like I'm attached to something that I already was. Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah. But I will attached to something that already was. Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah. But my best friend, Jasmine, we would literally just like come to each other's houses and just eat food, yeah, or like and I miss being able to do that In her space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I miss it so much Because none of my closest like friends that I've grown up with they're coming here this weekend.
Speaker 1:Yay, this weekend. Yeah, oh my gosh, that's exciting. Well, when this airs, it'll be past, but I'm excited for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Look, yesterday they were here. They were here Like, yeah, man, I think that's what I've been missing in my life is my friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah I, how much I isolated myself this last year, just going through everything I did until a whole bunch of shit just blew up one time and then people just started coming in and first of all I thought to myself I am so blessed to have so many people who are showing up for me, like my ex-husband showed up for me I don't think anyone listening knows whatever, but he showed up for me. I don't think anyone listening knows whatever, but like he showed up for me, like people who genuinely just cared, yeah. And in my head I felt like, dang, did I push all these people out? Yeah, was I in a space where I pushed them out, like, and now they're just here for me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so crazy. And I know you said we're wrapping up yeah, no, you crazy. And I know you said we're wrapping up yeah, no, you're. I have also been experiencing friend guilt because I feel like people have been showing up for me so much more than I have been showing up for them, and I'm aware of it now. So it's something that I'm going to be more intentional about.
Speaker 2:But when I have been, things like my friends are coming up here just to you know, I'm going to show them. They're going to come up for that from Chicago. Like one of them even is taking a train and it's like, dang, you do that for me, like that's so cool, like you're prioritizing me, like, uh, my grandmother passed away last month. These friends came to her funeral. Like, and I've had friends. They sent me flowers when my grandmother passed. It was just like they just were there. They were there and I've had friends just come my two college friends, two of my roommates one lives in Florida, the other's in Texas. They flew up here to see me for my birthday.
Speaker 2:So my friends have been showing up for me so much and I just feel guilty because I haven't returned a favor and my friends are like you weren't in the predicament too. You know what I mean. Like we know you, we see how you are now, if you were taking trips to Dubai and you know, buying a Porsche and a Rover you ain't coming to, you know, see and be with us, that would be a problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we're letting you know. We're holding space for you in this time.
Speaker 1:And also, can I ask would you expect if all of a sudden you noticed friends needed you and you just started showing up? Would you be like dang, why aren't you showing up for me? Or would you be like this is just who I am?
Speaker 2:I think it would be. This is just how I am, but I also expect some level of reciprocity. I do expect some level of reciprocity, but also knowing I can tell my friends that, yeah, I can say that to them, I don't just have to feel like I've been showing up a lot and I would love yeah, you okay.
Speaker 1:so then that's my last kind of question, like how do you ask for support from your people, either whether you're getting it or not? I know I have a really hard time asking for help, ask for support. Do you know how to ask for support? Do you ask for support?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do ask for support and it's just that simple. I know it's course simple, but not simple. Um, I also have been in situations where I am spiraling and I've literally just called my friends on facetime, balling, you know, and they just jump into like, and I also think friends know like you shouldn't have to, unless you're just extremely isolated and they don't know what's going on in your life. Your friends, you shouldn't have to tell them I need support. They should just do it.
Speaker 1:Be like she's acting off. She's acting different, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I've had a situation where I told my friends that I was feeling like super depressive and this and the other. Like the next day they were driving to Chicago I mean, from Chicago here, you know, my grandmother passed away. I didn't have to tell my friends I needed support. I just had flowers at my door the next day. You know, like even this weekend well, yesterday was this end but I just told my friends like oh, I'm having this performance. And they're like okay, I'm coming. You know, you shouldn't have to coach your friends on how to be a friend.
Speaker 1:You shouldn't have to no.
Speaker 2:Now, friend, you shouldn't have to know now different seasons as you all grow. You may need to, you know, have a discussion about how you change, but or maybe support looks different in different ways. Yeah, as you all grow and evolve. But if your friends want to be there for you, they're gonna be there for you. You shouldn't have to tell them.
Speaker 1:Yeah all right, listeners. Take a look at your circle. Take a look at your friends, like who are you supported by? Who might you need to have a conversation with and do you know how to ask for support? Because I know I'm working on that, and when I say support, I just mean like dang, I miss you. Why don't you ever call me, or why don't you text me? Or I see you doing all this stuff Like why don't you ever invite me? So look at your friends people. Is there anything else that you want to add? Look at your friends people.
Speaker 2:Is there anything else that you want to add? I want to add that let's be honest. Let's be honest about friends, if they are your friends or not. Let's be honest about how you show up as a brand and maybe how you fall in short in friendships that you care about. Just check in, just check in.
Speaker 1:I love that. All right out. Just check in. Let's check, I love that, all right. So we're gonna end being honest, being cute, being loud and dancing, yeah, even when everyone is watching period. All right, peace out, I will see you. We'll both see you next week. Yes, okay, bye, bye, y'all.
