Writing Your Own Rules: Reinvention, Rebellion, and Reclaiming Your Voice with Lynne Golodner

In this powerful episode, we sit down with Lynne Golodner, author of eleven books across multiple genres, who found her voice in midlife.

When Lynn chose Orthodox Judaism in her twenties, she was drawn to its structure and meaning—but years later, a moment of clarity during a camping trip sparked her realization that this path no longer aligned with her authentic self. What began as a spiritual journey evolved into a series of bold reinventions that would ultimately lead her to greater creative freedom and financial success.

Lynne shares the raw, unfiltered reality of navigating divorce during the 2008 recession as a freelance writer with three children—sitting on her stairs, methodically working through worst-case scenarios, and building a strategic plan to support her family. She explains how she transitioned from traditional publishing to self-publishing to protect her "very Jewish author brand," a decision that has allowed her to produce a book a year while staying true to her identity.

With refreshing candor, Lynne breaks down her practical approach to prolific writing. She offers actionable insights on claiming your identity as a writer before you feel "ready," reframing rebellious traits as leadership qualities, and building a sustainable creative practice despite overwhelming circumstances.

This conversation isn't just for authors or those in creative fields. Lynn's insights apply to anyone facing a transition that demands courage, strategic thinking, and the determination to write your own rules despite what conventional wisdom might suggest.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

• How to face your fears systematically by naming them and working through worst-case scenarios
• Why building dreams incrementally through consistent small steps leads to lasting change
• The power of reframing "negative" traits like rebellion as strengths in your professional life
• How to claim your identity as a writer, artist, or creator before you feel fully "ready"
• The strategic importance of building a body of work over time
• Why you should never dilute what makes you unique, even when it might limit your audience
• How to channel idealism productively, even when it leads you down unexpected paths
• Practical ways to transform your life one small step at a time when facing major transitions

Learn more about Lynne:

Website 

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Facebook

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Transcript

Jessica Fein: Welcome. I'm Jessica Fein, and this is the “I Don't Know How You Do It” podcast, where we talk to people whose lives seem unimaginable from the outside and dive into how they're able to do things that look undoable. I'm so glad you're joining me on this journey, and I hope you enjoy the conversation. 

Welcome back to the show. Today I'm speaking with Lynne Golodner, bestselling author of 11 books, whose latest essay collection is about finding yourself at midlife. We talk about what it means to find yourself and for that matter, what it means to be at midlife.

Lynne shares her journey of choosing Orthodox Judaism in her 20s, making the difficult decision to leave in her 30s, and how finding her voice in midlife led to greater creative freedom and financial success. [00:01:00] We also get into Lynne's move from traditional publishing to self-publishing to fully embrace her quote, “very Jewish author brand.”

This episode is for you if you are fascinated by spiritual journeys, wondering how to produce creative work consistently or simply looking for inspiration to make a major life change. Lynne's story of rebellion, resilience, and reinvention shows us what's possible when we trust our voice and refuse to listen when others say something can't be done.

Without further ado, I bring you Lynne Golodner.

Hey Lynne, welcome to the show. 

Lynne Golodner: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. 

Jessica Fein: I wanna start by talking about your gigantic body of work. You are prolific. You have written 11 books across genres, hundreds of essays. I will admit I have not read all 11. But I have read some. One of the things that we come to know [00:02:00] through reading your work is that you chose Orthodox Judaism in your 20s.

And then you left in your late 30s. So I wanna start there because I find that so interesting. I'm fascinated by what drew you in the first place, and then the decision and courage it must have taken to leave. 

Lynne Golodner: Thank you for your interest in that. So, you know, I think I'll start by saying I've always been very Jewish, but never really religious or observant when I was growing up.

And I think there were two things that drew me to orthodoxy. One is that I've always been an idealist, and unfortunately I still am. So I see the world through very rose colored glasses. And the second was that I really wanted to get married in my 20s. And it was not very popular to say that in secular circles.

And if I ever said that to a guy I was dating, that was the end of that relationship. So I had a colleague when I lived in Washington [00:03:00] DC and worked at a Jewish newspaper who had become Orthodox over time. She was like my mom's age and she invited me for Shabbat, and it was so beautiful and so peaceful and I thought, well, there's like this meaning filled observance that you know, really sort of anchors your life.

It's all about marriage. It's all about getting married and having kids. And I'm like, well, you know, I'm looking for more meaningful relationships and sort of a purpose-driven existence and I really wanna get married. And so maybe this is the path for me. And I met amazing people who defied all of the stereotypes of, you know, religious fundamentalists.

And not all orthodox Jews are fundamental, but a lot can be. And so I think that because I was introduced to it by incredibly open-minded, worldly people who also happened to be Orthodox and I really, I wanted to get married. I was in my later 20s, so I decided to just go for it and I loved it. And I did meet my [00:04:00] first husband that way, and we got married very quickly.

Jessica Fein: Wait, lemme just pause for a second. You didn't meet through a matchmaker, did you? 

Lynne Golodner: No. Mm-hmm. 

Jessica Fein: Okay. And when you say you got married very quickly, like how quickly. Sometimes we hear in that community about people who are like, well, on our third date we got married, 

Lynne Golodner: no, three months we dated and got engaged, and then five months later we got married.

Jessica Fein: Okay. 

Lynne Golodner: So I still think that's fast. And in fact, I'll tell you that about six weeks before the wedding, I sort of had this aha moment in a therapy session about some real challenges that we were facing in our relationship. And it was six weeks before the wedding and the therapist said, what do you wanna do?

And I said, I don't wanna be the person who cancels the wedding. And so I just thought, we'll get through this. We'll help each other. 

Jessica Fein: Did those doubts linger for the entire six weeks from when you first had that epiphany all the way through to the wedding? 

Lynne Golodner: Oh yeah. Even at the wedding, I mean, and there are essays about this in my recent collection, there were two moments at the wedding. I don't have to go into them, but like where I thought to myself. Oh my. Like who did I just marry and why did I [00:05:00] marry this person and why did he marry me? You know? So yeah. So if you want me to tell you about why I left. So I think that that idealism served me well for like the first five years of being Orthodox, and then what really changed it for me.

It was this moment where I went camping with my two oldest kids before the third one was born, and it was a bunch of moms and kids in Canada, and I didn't cover my hair and I wore pants because I was like in the forest, you know, chasing around toddlers. And when I was returning home and I got close to the border to go across the border, I reached into the glove compartment and took out a headscarf and put it over my hair, and I immediately got depressed.

And I was like, oh my God, this is the effect of being covered and silenced and all these things. That is how I experienced it, but I didn't feel that it was fair to my husband to abandon orthodoxy while we were married. It's not his fault that it didn't last for me, but I did abandon some of the observances [00:06:00] that he didn't really care about like covering my hair or wearing skirts all the time. And when I did that, I remember there were two women who I considered to be like my best friends at the time, and they both dropped me because I was not covering my hair and I was wearing pants. 

Jessica Fein (2): Wow. 

Lynne Golodner: And so I think that precipitated the departure, which I then did when I divorced him.

Jessica Fein: When you left Orthodoxy, given the reaction of those two as an example. Did you stay close to anybody in the community? What about the person you had worked with who had kind of invited you in? 

Lynne Golodner: I still have relationships with some of those people and my first novel, I actually acknowledged them in the back and sent them copies and I still get like their annual Rosh Hashanah card with pictures of the, now their grandchildren, used to be their children.

And I, I really, you know, respect them a lot. But I will say that when I first divorced my first husband, I was still Orthodox and I further lost friends. When we got divorced, people stopped [00:07:00] inviting us for Shabbat, me and the kids. And I think that clinched it for me. I was like, are you kidding? Like, just because I'm divorced doesn't mean I'm, you know, unsavory.

I'm not gonna go after your husbands. But I was like, ignored. So then I said, okay, well then I'm done. They're done with me. I'm done with them. 

Jessica Fein: Well, it's interesting, I, I've had another writer on the show who left the Orthodox community, although I think that the difference there, correct me if I'm wrong, that she was in the Ultra Orthodox community because leaving that community, she had to plan it and do it secretly.

I mean, it was quite dramatic. For you, was it like that or was it more like what we might expect in modern society with the divorce? 

Lynne Golodner: I think it was more modern, like I wasn't just, you know, shunned or anything. But I do think that some doors closed on me for sure. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that.

I mean, I was basically rejecting the way that they're living, and so that's uncomfortable. And I'm also, I'm a writer and I'm very vocal. I'm very much an open book, and so I write [00:08:00] about these things and I think that was uncomfortable for people too. I try not to disparage the Orthodox world because there are things I miss about it and there are things I really, really loved.

And I say now, I say, I'm just Jewish. I take and reject equally from all the denominations. And there are things that I do miss, and there are times I find myself so surprised that I'm like, oh, wouldn't it be nice if I were in that Orthodox enclave? And then I'm like, wait, you were remember? And what is it that you're missing?

I think part of what I liked about it at first was that you just follow the role. You don't have to think for yourself at least. That's how I saw it. And I've always been different from everybody. I've always been very rebellious and sort of thinking for myself and sort of different from my family, different from my friends and whatever.

And it was a relief to just say, I'm just gonna inhabit this role. This is exactly what they tell me to do and it's easier and then I'll fit in. But I still didn't really fit in 'cause I just am different. 

Jessica Fein: I have always thought that it would be quote unquote, easy and, and that's, you know, definitely a lot of ways we can interpret that word, [00:09:00] but for ultra religious of any faith, because you don't have to make any decisions, right?

They're all laid out for you. But in your decision to divorce, I mean it, obviously any decision like that always involves a tremendous amount of courage. But in your case, you then became a single mom who in many ways had to reinvent yourself. And find a way to support your family, and that was a big turning point for you.

Lynne Golodner: It was really challenging because I got divorced in 2008, and if you remember, that was a huge economic recession. That's when it just started, and when I got married to my first husband, I was a freelance journalist and adjunct college professor, and so I supported us by writing for magazines and newspapers for the duration of our marriage.

He's a musician and so, you know, he's very talented, but it's really hard to make it, and especially as an orthodox musician who's not. Performing on Fridays and Saturdays. 

Jessica Fein: You know, wait, I have a question about that. Can Orthodox musicians [00:10:00] perform at Orthodox events on Friday and Saturday, or do Orthodox events not even happen on Friday and Saturday?

Like what if there's a wedding? Well, I guess there wouldn't be a wedding, right? 

Lynne Golodner: It wouldn't be a wedding, but they can perform on Shabbat without instruments. And so my ex-husband was actually part of some acapella singing groups, which synagogues could hire and things like that. Or he could be hired as a cantor, which didn't happen often, but, so those types of things he can do.

But then. He's talented just musically, not just in Jewish music. And so if he wanted to perform like in a restaurant or a concert venue, like he has a band, you know, but he can't do Friday nights all the time and he can do Saturday nights, half the year. When Shabbat early. So it's really, really hard to make it as a musician in general, but as an orthodox musician, even harder.

Jessica Fein: And just for people who are listening who might not know what we're talking about here is on Shabbat, which is the Sabbath. So we're talking about from sundown on Friday night to sundown on Saturday night, which is why when you say half the year, you know when it gets dark earlier. [00:11:00] You can then go out.

Lynne Golodner: Exactly. Thank you for that. Yeah, so when I got divorced, I was a freelance journalist. I was really successful, but with the recession, a lot of magazines were closing up shop, and so I was losing a lot of my regular clients who just didn't have, not only did not have a freelance budget, but they just were like shuttering altogether.

And I remember at the time the house we had bought, we bought at the height of the market, and then here was this downturn with all the houses underwater. I remember there was a moment I was sitting on the bottom step of our stairs in that house, which I got in the divorce, and I was just like having a panic attack, thinking how am I gonna earn income?

What if I lose this house, you know? And I had started a business. I decided I'd take my communication skills and see if I could get companies to pay me, but I was still finding my way with it. Turned into marketing and PR and it became successful. But right then I did not know that. And I sat there on that step that what I did was I like went through all the horrible what ifs.

So what if I don't have any clients? So then I have no income. And so what if I can't pay the mortgage? So [00:12:00] then I lose the house? And how long would it take to lose the house? And what happens then? Well, my parents lived 15 minutes away and I was 37 years old, and I thought, okay, if, God forbid, all of that happens, I pack up the kids and I move into my parents' basement and it's not ideal.

None of us want that, but I'm not going to be sleeping on a sidewalk in a cardboard box with my kids. So when I realized that, I thought, okay, if that's my worst case scenario. I can live with that, but I don't want it to happen. So what can I do to prevent it? And I just worked the heck out of time. You know, like when the kids were with my ex, which was only one night a week, and every other weekend I worked around the clock.

And then my youngest, when I got divorced was. Just turning two actually. So I found this really lovely older woman who I could hire as like a part-time nanny so I could actually work during the day when he was home. The other kids were at school. I got up before the dawn and I stayed up late at night. I did whatever I could and I, I was successful.

I ended up getting some clients [00:13:00] and one of the first client I had was a grocery chain Jewish owned here in Detroit, and I negotiated my contract to be. Mostly cash, but some grocery gift cards. Oh, that's brilliant. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, there's only three little kids. We can make this work. You know? So it was a fraught time.

It was really scary. 

Jessica Fein: It's interesting because in your most recent book, Forest Walk on a Friday, essays on Love Home and Finding my voice in midlife, you have essays that take us through your journey, but when you talk about finding your voice in midlife, was this the start of, that was the time we're talking about now, what you consider the start of midlife or did that come later?

Tell us about that. 

Lynne Golodner: Yeah, I do think it was late thirties and people who know me now don't understand this, but I was pretty insecure in my twenties. I just wanted to find a relationship and I believed in all the romance movies like You Complete Me and all these things, and I did not have a strong sense of self that I was [00:14:00] confident in.

I think it was there, but it was pretty deep and I just. I didn't have the confidence and I remember it took me a long time to decide to file for divorce and I was talking to my mother once about it, and she is pretty direct. I mean, I'm pretty direct too, but especially when it comes to me, she'll say things that feel a little bit like out and she said, well, don't leave him thinking that you're gonna go find someone else.

Leave him because you'd rather be alone than be with him, which is like, what? You don't think I'm gonna find love again? Like, thanks a lot, mom. You know? Yeah. But the truth is, it was after sort of came back from that little bruise, I realized how smart she was in saying that and, and it took me a little while before I realized I actually would rather be alone for the rest of my life than be in that relationship.

And that was the moment that it all started leading to my voice and some confidence because. I thought, oh, I, I would rather be alone. I could be alone and be happy with that. Wow. Like that's a new thought. And that was really empowering. And so that's where it [00:15:00] started. And then it was funny, you know, I just sort of spiraled, 'cause business was succeeding.

So I felt more confident about that. And then, I don't know, when I filed for divorce, like all of a sudden I was very attractive to other men, even some married men, which is kind of funny. And I was like, oh, okay, well, you know, some people are finding me attractive. That's heartening. And you know. They may not be nice guys, but whatever.

It's still heartening. So I think that it was like I made this choice. I decided to do a very hard thing and that boosted my confidence, which kept spiraling and then everything I was doing was eventually paying off and there were always setbacks, but the confidence built at a lot of different levels and yeah, it was pretty cool.

Jessica Fein: I'm struck by the term midlife when you are telling us about it. It sounds like this really was kind of late thirties. 

Lynne Golodner: Yeah. 

Jessica Fein: I am a contributor to a book that's gonna be coming out in the spring called Midlife Private Parts, and the contributors were on the phone yesterday and everybody's 50 and older.

I. And it's all women, and that people were really talking about feeling like, you [00:16:00] know, in their fifties, they're coming into their own. This is the best time of their life. And so it's funny to think about midlife as late thirties, which at this point, to me feels so young. 

Lynne Golodner: Well, actually, when I put that title on the book, I was thinking about the book is coming out at midlife for me, I'm 53 and I think it started.

At that moment and that finding my voice, and then it kept growing. So I think that was the beginning. I don't think that was midlife. I hope it wasn't. I hope I get to Oh yeah. Longer than 30, than 70, whatever. So yeah, for sure.

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Jessica Fein: It strikes me that you have been, as you say, finding your voice all along in so many different ways, and one of those that, you know, we talked at the beginning about all of these books that you have published. At first, eight of them were traditionally published. Yes. And then you moved to self-publishing to accommodate what you call, quote, your very Jewish author brand.

And I think first of all, moving to self-publishing and making that choice and making it for the reason you made it is another example of finding your own voice. 

Lynne Golodner: Yes. I, I agree with that. I mean, it's interesting, the first eight books. I consider to be labors of love, and I felt so grateful that publishers would take a chance on me.

I didn't make any money. I had one little teeny advance for one of the nonfiction books, but I didn't make any money from any of them, nor nor did I really try to market them, or it wasn't even in my [00:18:00] consciousness. It was just something I did because I felt I needed to do it and it was fun and whatever.

And then when I started writing fiction, I assumed I would just pitch or query, you know, agents or publishers. But the Jewish part of it was really important to me to not have to water down the Jewish to satisfy other people and make them money. And I had a plan of writing a book a year for the rest of my life.

And I'm even surpassing that this year. And I know that the publishing industry doesn't work that fast. 

Jessica Fei: No 

Lynne Golodner: and also what I was hearing from everybody is that authors today, no matter how they're published, are having to do a lot of their own marketing. And you know, we're talking that it's been 15 years since I built this marketing company and I'm pretty good at it.

And so if I have to do that anyway, why should I give up part of my royalties? And I think it's paying off. I mean, do I like the marketing? Not as much as the writing, but if I'm gonna have to do it anyway than I'd rather reap the rewards. And you know, my second novel Cave of Secrets, which at this point has only been out for like six [00:19:00] months or seven months, and it's sold like almost 3000 copies.

And that's pretty great. And that's because of how I'm marketing it. And so I feel like, okay, you know, I'm good with that, you know, and, and my goal is building a library of work. And so, yeah, 

Jessica Fein: let's talk about that goal because I mean, one book a year, first of all, why, why one book a year? That is an audacious goal 

Lynne Golodner: There are a few things.

When I did all this research and decided how to publish, I learned some really interesting statistics and research about how and when authors actually make a sustainable income from their books. And so the minimum is five books in a genre out, and that's at least, it could be more. And so it depends on what genre and how well those books do.

But the more books you have in the world, the more money you potentially can make from your books because of your backlist. So somebody discovers one of your books somewhere along the line and they say, oh, I really like this. What else has she written? And they go back and they start buying the others.

And so I realized, okay, I need at least five out in the world, if [00:20:00] not more. Maybe I need more than that to start making a sustainable income. So that means that I have to write five books to, to get them out there. And if I take, you know, 2, 3, 5 years per book, I mean, I. I won't get to five books, you know what I'm saying?

And I am pretty fast. I write pretty fast. It doesn't mean it's not hard. I mean it really is hard. But I decided if I can do a book a year, then I have a chance of coming close to sustainable income in five years, but it might take me longer. And so I know that I'm on this road, you know? But also in that vein, I started with Woman of Valor, which I pantsed. 

Jessica Fein: Which you what?

Lynne Golodner: I Pantsed, so either being a pants or a plotter. So for listeners to understand what this is, there's a thing where you either write by the seat of your pants, make it up as you go along, or you plot it out and you plan the book, and then you work from the plan. 

Jessica Fein: Did you make that up or is that a thing? 

Lynne Golodner: No, it's a thing.

Yeah. I, I don't know who made it up, but Okay. 

Jessica Fein: When you said you pantsed, I was like, okay, I must have misheard. All right. Pantsed. Okay.

Lynne Golodner: Pantsers and plotters. And so [00:21:00] I say that I am a born pants who converted to plotting because I, pantsed Woman of Valor. It had three different endings until I got one that worked and it was a little jagged and I really needed to work with an editor to make it flow.

And that was a lot of work. And so I said, well, why don't I see what it's like to plot out a novel? And so for Cave of Secrets, I spent a full month writing five days a week, three hours a day, doing that plan for that book. And that was plotting it out. I used what's called a beat sheet that I did not create, but I modified it for my purposes.

I planned out these 15 beats of how the story would go. I did a ton of research. I built character sketches. That was like a full month of planning and the writing of the book, because I had this plan, only took me three months. Wow. 

Jessica Fein: Yeah, so I mean, first of all, there's so much here because I think, you know, a lot of people who listen to the show are writers, aspiring writers, et cetera, but I think people are probably pretty surprised to hear all these books that you had written and [00:22:00] had published traditionally, and you hadn't made an income from it, and that you are seeing a more lucrative path.

Self-publishing, and I think a lot of people think it would be the opposite, that you start off self-publishing if you can't find a publisher with the hopes to ultimately go traditional. So can you explain a little bit about how the economics of it all works? 

Lynne Golodner: Yeah. So the first eight books were two poetry collections and six non-fiction books.

So I think that's important because I don't know how many people are buying poetry, you know? I'd like to think a lot of people, but I don't know that that's true. I also was published by small presses or independent publishers, not like Random House or you know, penguin. And I think that that means something too.

I think that the poetry publishers didn't do an ounce of marketing, and I knew nothing about how to do that back then. And the nonfiction books, you know, one of them called Hide and Seek Jewish Women and Hair Covering. There was no book that was about why and how women cover their hair in the Jewish community.

And so as a [00:23:00] former journalist, I said, let me investigate this. And I had a publisher in Israel who gave me an advance and put out a really beautiful book. And I think it's gone into like three subsequent printings, but I haven't seen anything from it, you know? And maybe that's because I don't even know where that contract is, to be quite honest.

But that one may have made some money, but not for me at least. And it's also still, even if it went into three printings. Who's buying this book? Orthodox Jews. It's a very small percentage of people buying books in the world, so it may still have done well in that Milia, but that doesn't mean it did well in the scheme of book publishing.

I think my most mainstream book was the one that came out in 2013. Also nonfiction. I. Called the flavors of faith, holy breads. And it's about how bread is a thing in like every faith and every community. One of our touch points, like why are we arguing? We all have this in common and it has recipes and it's a beautiful book.

And I'm still friends with the publisher and they promote every single book that I put out. And it's really, really nice that they do that. And I get statements from them quarterly, but it doesn't really sell, you know, like I [00:24:00] don't know who's buying it. So I think that you need to put effort behind all of your books in order to, for them to stay in front of people and.

That publisher's putting out books upon books upon books and that this was in 2013. You know, as for what I'm publishing now in self-publishing, I'm mostly publishing fiction except for the essay collection that you so generously blurbed and fiction sells better than anything else. I. And I'm promoting it in ways that bring attention to it.

So like Cave of Secrets has a whole L-G-B-T-Q theme to it. And I think that people are starving for stories about gay characters. And it also has the Jewish identity theme. It also takes place in the Scottish Highlands. And thanks to Outlander, everybody wants a book about that. There's some sex in my books, people like that, you know?

So I think that I am not writing this to sell it, but the things that I'm putting into my books. Are of interest not just to me, but to other people too. 

Jessica Fein: And to such diverse audiences. I mean, I guess that they also might crosspollinate. I [00:25:00] totally get that about you have to have a body of work out there in order to be successful, and I get that both as a reader and a writer for me, there is nothing I love more than reading a book and I primarily read fiction even though the two books I've written have been nonfiction.

But there's nothing I love more than finishing a book and being so into it and then discovering that the author has written other books, and I will do that. I will go on a binge with that author for sure. 

Lynne Golodner: Yes, definitely. Me too. Yes. I think that, you know, right now having this volume of work, and I think each of my books gets better than the one before it.

It challenges me if I'm on this pace to see what else I can do and to go bigger and deeper. I just started writing the next book, so I have a new novel coming out in June and that's done. And I was told from a lot of authors that the best thing you can do when you're waiting for a new book to launch is start writing the next book.

Jessica Fein: Definitely. But wait. Before you move on to that, tell us what the June one is called. 

Lynne Golodner: It's called I Love You, Charlie Tanner. It is probably the steamiest of my books so far and very suspenseful. There's a murder, there's a [00:26:00] cult that the main character leaves. There is Jewish identity, but in a very different way.

There's a hot rabbi in it, which even surprised me. But yeah, and 

Jessica Fein: that's also a very timely thing with that Adam Brody show. “Nobody Wants This.” Yeah. I think people are very interested in the Hot Rabbi character. 

Lynne Golodner: Yeah. Which I have to say, I had this idea long before the show came out, but still, yes, it's helpful to marketing, so you know.

Jessica Fein: You said that one of the things about moving to self-publishing, when you talked about the pace and that you're gonna need to do the marketing yourself, but you also said you knew you wanted to stick with the Jewish themes and that you didn't wanna have to water that down. Were you sensing that that was happening or going to happen in traditional publishing?

Lynne Golodner: Yes. And this was before October 7th. This was, you know, in 2020. 2021 is when I made this decision. You know, listen, I teach classes on author branding and marketing and. So in order to teach it, I had to say, well, what am I doing? And really look at it. And I was looking at how to build an author brand, and I was doing that for myself, applying the lessons to myself.

And [00:27:00] what I looked at was, well, what are the common themes throughout my writing over my career? And so my nonfiction books, my poetry, my essays. And Jewish identity is one of the themes as well as nature and gardening and things like that, that's really big for me. And relationships. All of these things I've always written about.

Faith has always interested me. Before I was Orthodox, during, after everything, and so I said, you know, I want to be proud about this. I don't want to hide it. This is a huge part of who I am. Even if I'm not as religious as I once was, and I don't wanna have to hide it, I don't wanna have to blend. And so why not be deliberate in this?

Like I think I just sort of defacto did it before, but now I want it to be deliberate. And then when October 7th happened, I thought. Wow. And I had to really do a gut check. Am I still good with this? And I was like, a hundred percent. 

Jessica Fein: Can you explain for people, because there is a lot of talk within literary circles about how the landscape has changed for Jewish authors or writing about Jewish themes [00:28:00] since that time, but it might not be something people are aware of.

And it's actually, I think, a little counterintuitive. 

Lynne Golodner: Yes. So before October 7th happened, there were already waves of. I guess resistance to Jewish voices in publishing. And I have a really close friend who's a mentor, who is now a literary agent. She's been a publisher at a publishing house in New York before she was a magazine editor before that, I'd known her for 30 some years, and she's a little bit older than me, so she's always sort of mentored me.

And I remember hearing that in England, in the UK. The agents were not taking on Jewish authors, and I asked my friend, is this true in New York? And she's like, absolutely not. Forget it. It's never heard of such a thing that's horrible. And she's not Jewish. That was like before October 7th. But I still was hearing that, you know, some people were boycotting, especially Israeli authors and Israeli artists, but then it was trickling down to just Jews, you know, it, it wasn't even subject matter that had to do with Israel or had to do with Judaism.

It was just. For the fact of being [00:29:00] Jewish. And then after October 7th, like, I don't know, a year later I saw this friend in New York and I asked her, I said, is it still not happening? She goes, no, it's happening. And so like then it had crossed the pond from the UK to New York, and Jewish authors are just being denied any chance of representation.

Because they're Jewish. And if you look at all the major organizations that support artists and writers, they're being very sensitive to Palestinian voices, which I totally encourage and think that is really important. But they're seeing a dichotomy, like, if I could do one, I can't do the other. And I'm like, why?

It's not a both sides thing. It's like people and stories. And I think all stories need to be heard, and especially in fraught times. But I think Jews are the only minority that are not seen as marginalized. And so it's okay to exclude Jews, but not anybody else. So I don't mean to even, you know, get on a political bandwagon.

But when I started this, I thought. [00:30:00] I don't wanna have to make, especially Woman of Valor, it's an orthodox protagonist. I didn't wanna have to make it less orthodox. And that was a few years ago. That was a while ago. But now my books really aren't even all that Jewish. It's just like a minor theme through them.

But I like that it's in there. I like that that's like a little subtle thing and all of my writing and it's, it's kind of fun to do. 

Jessica Fein: So let's talk for a minute about this one book a year thing, because I know a lot of people who will be like, well, I worked on my book for 18 years, or, you know, I worked on my book for six years or whatever.

They say, yeah, you are putting out a book a year, but you're writing it even faster than that. Yeah. So tell us, like practically, for people who are wanting to write and wanting to get into more of a routine, how do you get so much writing done? 

Lynne Golodner: So, that's a great question, and it was a gradual build. It did not happen overnight.

So about 5, 6, 7 years ago I started, this was the real midlife crisis where I said, in my forties, I always say I'm a writer, but it's like the last thing I [00:31:00] do. And so when am I going to take myself seriously? And so I had this vision, this goal of I'd like to get to a point where writing is my priority and the other things are on the side.

So how can I do that? And I had like, I don't know, 10 marketing clients, like big six figure clients and like people that I were working for me and all this stuff, and I'm like, well, I need to get to a point where I can reduce how many clients I have and can we live on whatever I'm gonna bring in if I do that.

My husband, I am remarried. He is working, he has a steady paycheck. He is not a musician, but you know, he's not a millionaire. So. I was thinking like, how do I make this transition? And I've always taught writing. I have an MFA in writing, and so I used to teach at universities and I thought, well, if I want to focus on writing, maybe my paying work should focus on writing.

And so I started shifting as I let go of marketing clients to teaching more writing classes. So I still had income, but it was sort of focusing me on the art of writing. I got to a point where I reduced my client load to just [00:32:00] two marketing clients and then a handful of writing classes, and I started at the beginning of that vision, getting up extra early, like 5:00 AM and writing for an hour.

And I didn't love that. It was very dark out, but I did it and I then I got into a flow. I used to say I'd write when I write, but I said I'm gonna commit to like. Several days a week because I think if I have a committed routine, maybe I'll write more. And that was true. So I did five days Monday through Friday, one hour, and then I did my whole work day and then it got to two hours.

And then I said, well, I don't really wanna get up at five. So I said, I'd like to get to the point where I can start writing at like eight and then do my paying work in the afternoon. So it's all a build over time. How can I make this shift in like little baby steps? And I got to a point after a few years where I was writing every morning for three hours, like eight to 11.

Or seven to 10 or whatever. And then I would take some kind of break exercise or whatever, and then I would do all my paying work in the afternoons. And I remember I had this one day where I was like, oh my God, I'm here. And it just took a few [00:33:00] years, but it was like I did it, you know? And it was all in increments.

So I still do that. There are times when the pain work, I have to, you know, bleed into the writing time or like. When I go on vacation, or I'm dealing with my kids in some way and I can't write that day, and I just say it's okay, because I will have a chunk of time when I'm committed to it, and I try not to let that happen too much.

So I write five days a week, three hours a day. That includes revision, editing, planning, any of that stuff. And I don't really do any of it on Saturdays and on Sundays, if I'm doing essays, I have two hours where I will do submissions for essays to get them published. And that's my writing routine. 

Jessica Fein: I wonder if some of your writing students are hesitant to step into the identity of being a writer.

And what I mean by this is that I know so many writers, and I would put myself in this group as well, who really hesitate to call themselves writers. Even people who are published, even people [00:34:00] who are prolific. There's some hesitancy. And I'm wondering for those you are teaching, how do you help them own that writer identity?

Lynne Golodner: It's so funny that you say this because I would say all of my students feel that way and they're almost all women, and it's especially true for women. I've had some men who are the same way, but I mostly I'm teaching women these days, but to the point that I developed a course called Building Self-Confidence and Removing Self-Doubt, and I teach it all the time.

I think I'm teaching it next in June or something. What I realize I'm teaching in addition to writing craft is self-belief. And it's not kids. You know, I'm teaching people in their thirties, forties, fifties, seventies, and there's been a voice inside them all these years that have said, I really wanna write.

But there were louder voices that drowned out that voice saying It's a nice little hobby, or You can't make any money at that. Or maybe when you retire. And so I get a lot of those people in my classes and over time [00:35:00] I sort of coach them to seeing how powerful their voice can be and how important it is to put their voice in the world.

Jessica Fein: It's so interesting. I mean, it has always struck me because now I finally will say it. I will call myself a writer, but I really was hesitant even after I had been a corporate writer, a newspaper columnist. I had published a book in my 20, you know, all these things, and it doesn't. Seem to me that people in other fields hesitate to own whatever they do.

I mean, my husband is never shy to say he's a teacher, for example, you know? Yeah. I imagine people for many decades have been saying to you for a variety of reasons, I dunno how you do it. Maybe they said it when you first joined Orthodoxy. Maybe they said it when you left. Maybe they said it when you had to pivot to support your family, and now you're this master producer.

So you have done many things that other people are like, I do not know how you do that. What traits or superpowers have led you through all of those huge accomplishments and pivots that have enabled you to do the things that seem [00:36:00] somewhat undoable to others? 

Lynne Golodner: One of the things when I was growing up, a lot of people that I looked to for support used some terms that didn't really sit well with me to describe me.

Like, you're bossy and you have a big mouth, and all these things that were not so nice. And I do wish that they had channeled that into like, you're a leader or you're, you know, outspoken or whatever. Fine. The past is the past, but there is a part of me that is very rebellious. And argumentative. Like, I want to be heard.

I believe in what I'm doing or what I'm thinking, and I want you to hear me. And I think that that rebellious tendency has served me well in really staying true to myself and my pursuit. Like I've basically, throughout my career, done things that people have said, you know. How are you gonna succeed with that?

And I'm like, I don't know. I will. I'll find a way and just to maybe prove them wrong and prove myself right. I've just put my nose to the ground and made it happen. I don't like when people tell me [00:37:00] something isn't possible, I'm like determined to prove that it is. I. So maybe it's rebellion, maybe it's, I don't know, defiance in some way.

I think in that way, those are good characteristics, you know? 

Jessica Fein: Yeah. They have certainly served you well, that's for sure. 

Lynne Golodner: Yeah. You know, even if I burn bridges along the way, which I definitely have, you know, and I've spent a lot of time in therapy rethinking how to respond to people and all of that, but I have a really big heart and I really care very deeply, and so I've just learned how to channel that.

But the writing is where I can just. Completely let loose and be myself and not be judged for it. So I think that that's been something I've clung to as like an anchor or a lifeline or something. 

Jessica Fein: When other women come to you, maybe they're your readers, maybe they're your students, maybe they're your kids and they want to make major changes, but they're scared or they're feeling stuck, what advice do you give them?

Lynne Golodner: We talk a lot about fear in my classes, and so just like that day that I was sitting on that carpeted step in my old house, it's, well, okay, let's face the fear. [00:38:00] Like what if? What if all the worst things happen? Let's spiral through it and see one at a time. Let's give it voice and let's confront it and respond to it.

Like if this happens, then what? I find that when you do that, you can release some of those fears and realize that they're not as scary as you thought and that you'll be okay even if they come true. But then of course once you've named it, you can do your best to make sure that doesn't happen, right. Um, I think facing it head on is the only way to go.

Jessica Fein: Well, I am so glad for one that you are writing a book a year, because that means that we are going to have even more to read from you. And I cannot wait until the June book comes out because you know, among other things, it's your steamiest book. Yet as you say, and also I gotta tell people the cover for this book as is true for all your books, is stunning.

That's one thing that is like a connective thread. Thank you on all of your books, just gorgeous, gorgeous covers. So there is no shortage of your work to read. And I hope people will check it out. And [00:39:00] thank you so much for writing and for sharing all of this with us today. 

Lynne Golodner: Thank you so much for having me.

This has been so much fun. 

Jessica Fein: Here are my takeaways from the conversation with Lynne. Number one, when making a major life change, do not try to do it all at once. Build your dream in small, consistent steps like Lynne did with her writing schedule. Number two, your bossy or rebellious traits might actually be leadership qualities in disguise.

Use them to your advantage when pursuing your goals. Number three, sometimes the most empowering realization is that you'd rather be alone than stay in a situation that doesn't serve you. Number four, don't wait until you're quote, ready to claim your identity as a writer, artist, or creator. Start owning it now even if you're still developing.

And number five, your idealism can serve you well, trust it as it leads you down. Unexpected paths. 

Thank you so much for listening to today's show. We are getting really close to episode number 100, and I'm so grateful for all of you who have been with me since the start. And for those of you who are just discovering the show [00:40:00] now, the best way to make sure that other people find the show is if you would take three seconds to rate review and or subscribe to the show. I so appreciate it. I know how many choices you have of what to listen to and I do not take your time for granted. That's it for now. Have a great day. Talk to you next time.