A Cycling Adventure from Australia to N.Ireland: David McCourt pt. 2

David McCourt shares his experiences of Cycling from Australia to Northern Ireland on a huge journey he aptly titled ' the long way home'.

This is the second time I've featured David's story - click here to listen to the first episode.

You can follow David via his instagram - @longwayhome__2022

Check out Ombraz Sunglasses - I'm a fan and I think you will be too!

Check out Zorali for all your outdoor adventure needs!

Chapters

• 4:51 David's First Day on Tour
• 7:45 The Overloaded Bike
• 13:05 The Transatlantic Way in Ireland
• 14:29 Experiencing Iranian Hospitality
• 17:20 Navigating Iran's Currency and Hospitality
• 33:33 Cooking an Irish Roast Dinner in Iran
• 35:29 Journey to the Caspian Basin
• 42:29 Inspiration and Advice for Adventurous Travellers
• 47:40 The Beauty and Diversity of Iran
• 1:03:57 Venturing into Kurdistan, Iraq
• 1:08:47 A Surreal Visit to Saddam's Palace
• 1:14:15 Unusual and Unexpected Situations
• 1:14:46 Cultural Shifts in Türkiye
• 1:16:06 Experiences in Greece
• 1:19:32 Exploring the Balkans
• 1:25:58 Cycling Through the Alps
• 1:42:02 Final Reflections and Lessons

Transcript

0:00

I would also say to any bike tourist or people who are thinking about doing this, like whether you're in the middle of a journey or you thinking about starting one or on the cus of starting one, ask yourself when it's all said and done, are you gonna be look, looking back on your trip and, you know, giving yourself a big old pat in the back because you cycled every f an inch and missed out on some incredible because you're, you're, you are gonna find out about places you didn't know existed along the way, places that you should visit but you didn't plan to, and that you're not gonna have enough time to visit if you do the every f and inch version of things. It's up to you ultimately. But I would just say like, have a think about what's gonna bring you the most satisfaction when it's all said and done. Because that's, I think that's ultimately what guided me and looking back on the trip, I have no regrets about making that compromise occasionally.'cause it did allow me to see the places that I otherwise would've skipped. I think I would've had heavier and harder feelings about that than what I feel about actually taking transport occasionally. Welcome to Seek Travel Ride where we share the stories and experiences of people taking amazing adventures by bike, whether it's crossing state borders, mountain ranges, countries, or continents. We want to share that spirit of adventuring on two wheels with our listeners. Hello listeners. It's Bella Molloy here, hosted Seek Travel Ride, and today I am super stoked to be welcoming back a previous guest of the show, David McCort. David's no stranger to taking the long way home. Literally as his adventure saw him set off from Melbourne, Australia with one goal in mind and that was to ride his bike all the way back to his home Village of Cushion do in Northern Ireland. Previously on the podcast, I've had the pleasure of speaking with David about the first half of his journey, covering off his adventures through the middle of Australia, Southeast Asia, the Himalayas, and into central Asia. David was such an incredible storyteller that we got about as far as him crossing through Turk, Stan, what a crazy experience that was before having to quickly speed through the rest of his route and wind the episode up. But he's also magnanimous with his time, and today he's offered up the opportunity to fill in those gaps and hear about the rest of his journey. We are gonna be learning about David crossing over into Iran, making his way through some of the most fascinating historic and at times unexpected parts of the world, from experiencing Iranian hospitality at its finest to cycling through Kurdistan in Iraq. The unease he had when he witnessed Turkish drone strikes to enjoying some of the most sweetest gravel riding through Albania. And then crossing the stunning Alps and deciding to squeeze in one last mountainous adventure through the Pyrenees. I can tell David's journey from Asia into Europe sounded nothing short of incredible. And finally, after so much time spent on the road, he arrived back in Ireland only for the journey to take an emotional, bittersweet turn just as he reached the finish line. Now today we are gonna be hearing about the moments that shaped the final leg of this journey. The people, the places that no doubt left a lasting impact and what it was like to return home after such an epic adventure. David McCort, big warm, welcome back to the show. Hello, Vela and hello folks. Thank you very much for having me and I'm very excited to be having part two of our conversation. I'm super pumped. David, I've been thinking about this, um, recording all day.'cause you're such an awesome storyteller. I feel like I could nearly run this episode today by just pressing record and just say, start here and take me all the way there. You don't even need me to nudge you with questions, right? Yeah. Although I'm very happy to be doing this because I've been home now for what we're March. So let's say nearly six months. And it's gonna be very nice to sort of relive a lot of the stories again, because I'm not, I'm not telling them as frequently as I was when I first got back. So it'll be really great to sort of jog the memory and. Think of the notable times and, and just, uh, those highlights, those really special experiences I had in the back half of the trip. I was reflecting back 'cause I had to listen back to your episode a couple of days ago, preparing for this one and laughing so many times at the circumstances you were caught up in from, you know, having to have stale bread and tomato paste for dinner up in the Mies Stan. Yep. To the mad scramble for the last train in Turk Stan to get over to Iran, which was absolutely hilarious. Mm-hmm. Listeners, if you haven't listened to the first episode of David, um, check out the show notes in your podcast player apps description. I've linked it there, but David, we've already heard about the very first bike you ever rode. So I have a different question for you and I want you to tell me about the very first day on this bike tour and I want you to tell me what you remember about that day. That's a great question. And I very, very distinctly recall my first day of the bike ride 'cause it was so damn emotional. In fact, the week leading up to me leaving on the bike ride were nothing short of an emotional rollercoaster. And I don't remember having cried as much as I did at that time, anytime prior, except for when I actually moved from Ireland to Australia, which is the, the last time I was such a emotional wreck. Like there was, and in fact, I was with my parents the weekend and we were talking about how the amount of tears that were cried as we left Ireland to move to Australia could have sunk a ship. And for me, the amount of tears that I shed and the lead up to the department on this bike ride had the same sort of magnitude, you know, had the same sort of tectonic weight to it. And really that told me that I was doing something huge. I was creating a huge life change for myself. So that day I, uh, I left from the native grass circle in Royal Park just north of the, you know, the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne. And that was really significant starting point for me because I would go to this little event called Coffee Outside. I'm not sure if you've heard of that. I haven't. What was, what happens at Coffee outside? I think it's a global thing, or it might be an Australian thing, but essentially you, you just don't have some coffee outside. Uh, and it's kind, it's kind of a ride bike. So people who go there, I have a shared interest in either bike tour, bike packing, bike commuting, and it's really nice. The one we we do in Melbourne, it's, we have a really diverse group of people, really diverse, uh, age range from like, you know, 18, 19 year olds all up to, I think, or the oldest person I've met there was like in their sixties, people here at uni, people who have jobs, people here just hanging out and just come and sit down and have a chat and we'd bring our air presses and our little stoves and just pick up the coffee. Oh my God, I need to come to one of these. I haven't been able to attend and reach, I need start the Pyrenees chapter one. Yeah, definitely. And that's the idea, like, you know, like, and people do advertise on Instagram and then just come along and have a chat and. It's a friendly bunch of people and you can have interesting chats about bikes or other stuff. So I, I went to my final coffee outside off that morning and a few friends came along to fire me or to see me off rather. And I cycled back to my parents' house in Altona because I had a bit of LA very, very, very last minute packing and just did load the bike. And I was really nervous too, because I was definitely d by a thousand paper cuts with my weight decisions. And you know how the gear that I packed, and it's the same for anybody who sets off on a long distance bike ride, as I'm sure you know from all your early conversations, you always take too much crap in the beginning and you start shedding as you go. So my bike was really over laden and. I just didn't know where everything was gonna fit. And so I, I took off that day and it was a really drab exit from Melbourne, like Cycl through the yucky suburbs of like West Melbourne. So like Altona and I de Point cook all that stuff. But I ended my first day in the yangs. Oh, what a beautiful part of the world. Yeah, it was good to get into like a bit of entry even though I was still sort of in that almost suburbia like, or like that sort of just grassy stuff between Melbourne and Geelong.'cause I was gonna head down to, you know, Turkey and the Great Ocean Road where I was gonna get into some good stuff. So that first day was just full of a lot of apprehension and just think the main feeling I felt after the tears had left me was relief. I finally turned over the pedals. I talked about the doorstep mile, I think in the first episode. And. You know, that was it. That was me taking that first step and just overcoming that initial bit of, or creating that bi initial bit of inertia that you need to just get going. And it felt so good to finally start putting some distance between home and, you know, taking off on the journey. So I was just really happy. I had begun and I remember again the camp, and I dropped my Power Bank brand spanking big, beefy 25,000 milliamp, power, power bank. And I dropped it on the ground and it stopped working. I was like, oh man, on the first day, oh, no way. Uh, sorry, I think I bought another one along the way or something and I had two or and or whatever. It sort of half worked. And because you would've researched that power bank so much before we bought it too, you were like, oh, which one do I need? Is that one too overkill? No, that one won't be enough. Like if you're like me, you would've done that first of many things to BRE or get damaged along the way, but that's, that's all part of the adventure. So yeah, it was a very emotional day, but a great one. And. A great way to start the trip. And it was so nice to have all those people, all my friends and folk waving me off and wishing me luck on the journey. There's a photograph on my Instagram page. You go to the very first one. It's me sort of jumping with the bicycle. I'm sort of like half caught in the air with the bike? Yeah. It's in the very first, uh, photograph of the trip. Oh. I'm gonna have to scroll through and, and have a, another look at that one now that I've got more context around it as well. I was thinking there, David, you know how you're saying everyone packs too much when they first set off? Mm-hmm. It would've been interesting to see the difference of what you had left when you arrived at cushioned. All but, and I know this all sounds so corny, cliche, metaphoric, I'm not sure the right word, but in some degree you panties would've been overflowing 'cause you had so many experiences shoved in there like two years, three months worth of bike travel and literally true. Because people give you stuff, they just, you know, and some stuff you really, you really wanna keep because like, it's something cool, you know? I remember when I was in, uh, Uzbekistan. This really nice guy gave me Japan. Or Japan, I think there's two ways to pronounced it. And it's like one of these big cotton jackets or coats. It's like, it's all the way down to your ankles. And it was so big and bulky. It was perfect 'cause it was like minus 18 degrees, but like, I can't cycle all the way to Ireland with this thing. Like, it's, it's, it's huge. And where we gonna put it? Did you want the tomay with that? Like, no, I, I kept it for a couple of days. I was like, as much as I enjoyed having it in that cold weather, like now I'm gonna post it. So I'd also bought like, um, one of these really nice Uzbek dishes. Like it's got this quite specific pattern on, on the, on the ceramic. And I, I posted that stuff home to Melbourne because yeah, my pans would've literally been overflowing all the way to Ireland. Now I still, I'd still like what, a year, almost a year to go from that point. So I should know the answer to this, but Did you have like a little bike mascot? You know how some people have like a little I did. What was yours? I sadly lost it too. I lost it in Tajikistan. Farewell friend. It was actually a little rubber duck, a little rubber duck that I find on the great northern highway up in Western Australia. And it had like wraparound suns and like a high vis jacket and a little, a little hard hat. So it was obviously some sort of tra trady duck from the mine or something like that. Something like that, yeah. Trying out on the side of the road. And I, and I had him sort of, I had like a bit of like netting on the front of my, uh, handlebar bag and I had him sort of sitting in there and it lasted all the way to Tajikistan. It was on the, uh, the Bar Tank Valley and with my, uh, not a good friend Martin, a French fellow that I met there and we rode together for a week or so. He bounced off at the Corrugations and, and I only noticed like a day later, I was like, oh no, I mascot. So just think he, he, he went through all that headwind and it was the corrugations that got him in the end. Then as luck would have it, when I was in MHA in Iran, I met some very, the first of very, some very, very nice people and they gave me another little rubber duck. I. And Yeah, I didn't ask for it. They just had it and they said, do you want this rubber eye? I was like, yeah, I'll do it. It's like a resurrection. Yeah. And so I cable tied this one. I put a cuttle little hole on him so that I could actually cable tie him and he, there's no way he was gonna bounce off the bike. So he made it all the way. Oh, I love it. And listeners, if you are, I know that many of you that tune into the show are actually mid adventure. And if you were someone who's doing that and you have your own little mascot, get in touch with me and let me know what it is. I always love these little things 'cause I have done one and only one ultra race and I had a little mascot for that and it was like a little chicken. Mm-hmm. And it was funny because by the end of my ultra, it was like sideways. It, it, it looked how I felt was the ultra race that you did. Uh, it was in, um, the north of France. It was called the Normandy Cat 900. So it was 900 kilometers and I did it in 66 hours and I think it was 13 minutes. And it, it broke my behind. Well and truly that's, that's awesome. Like 900 Ks and 66 hours. Wow. Yeah. And can I just say, there's not much of Normandy that's flash. Mm. All sustained climbing. It's not like the ine, like, like the Touro. You're riding up for two hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's all up and down. One of those things that I still don't believe I quite did, and one of those things in the back of my head will forever tick and going, do you wanna do another one? Because it's like that. Yeah. I think, I think it's that type two thing. There's a sense of pride in doing it, but then there's also now the understanding of what that actually means to do and how much it hurts to do. But then there's that wicked part of your brain that goes, I would like to do it. Mm-hmm. And I have said it on this show before, David, if I did do it, I think the event that I would do. Would be the transatlantic way, which is in Ireland there. So is there a risk for that one? Do they, do they have a risk? There is, yeah. Right. There is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There is. Definitely do it. Yeah. Sign up for headwind and rain and epic coastlines. Right. Well, and also the self-flagellation of like when the route takes every coastal peninsula. Mm. And you would know that route, right? Yeah. But, uh, you say about wind and rain, but I was so lucky I got five or six days of sunshine. I couldn't believe it. It was warm, beautiful sunsets and like, although then they had the midges, but like. It was very, very uncharacteristic for the time of year I was there. So I was super, super lucky, but it's incredible. Really beautiful. The only bike packing I ever did in Ireland was over to the west coast from Dublin.'cause I lived in Ireland during lockdown period. So I was sort of hemmed in for a while. But we had Australian weather on that bike packing trip. It actually was 33 degrees. Like when does Ireland get to 33? Like 23 is a heat wave. Yeah, I had the biggest 99 ice cream of my life. Maybe it's the upshot of climate change that Ireland gets good weather every now and again. Maybe. Although I think I saw somewhere last year, the average summer temperature in Ireland last year was like 14.9 degrees. So, uh, yeah, about right. Let's move on from Ireland. You did eventually get there, but I've gotta wind you back. I'm gonna wind you back to where we sort of left off before I sped you up to Ireland. Last time you told us about this crazy train tip. To get through Turk Minister, which would drop you off in Iran. Mm-hmm. And so I wanna now take you back to that moment, get off the train in Iran and tell me about the first few days there, because it's a place, David, I've heard so many other bike travelers talk about. It's a place that so many of us know for many different reasons in the news. Mm-hmm. And everyone's experiences of it are slightly different, but no less captivating for me. And I wanna hear what your experience in Iran was like. I'll also add, it's a place that my mother really, really did not want me to go to. She is she like, I'm sorry, Mrs. McCort. Yeah. She's like, David, please don't go to Anna. I was like, mom, I'm sorry. This is one of the places. Uh, hello Mom, if you're listening, this is one of the places that's non-negotiable for me. Like I, it was, you know, when I thought about the trip, it was like India, central Asia, Iran must have, and, and the kakais, which interestingly enough, I didn't end up doing. Because I went to Iraq, but like, yeah, Iran was very much at the top of those places that I, I needed to visit.'cause I'd heard such incredible things. So I remember getting to the border crossing from Turk, Stan and the, the top of this mountain pass. So I, I took the train to Ashgabat, I think it was the capital, which is a very weird place to think I described in the last episode. And then I got driven up to the border, crossed through tremendous and border, no probs, and then got to the Iranian side. And there's like an office, but there's no one there. I'm like, it's middle of the day, it's like lunchtime, you know? I'm like, where is everybody? Like, and I had to wait for like 20 minutes before anybody even showed up. The person did show up, had like, he was just like a guy in a leather jacket. He had no badge. He had no nothing. And he sort of went behind the counter and he is like, yes. And I was like, uh, can I come into Iran please? And he's like, you know, passport. And then another guy showed up eventually. He also was wearing no uniform. He was in a different window and he started, gave me a very light interrogation about why I was coming into the country. You know, you, what's your profession? Why are you here And how's you not, I'm a tourist, I'm just cycling, I'm cycling of Australia. They were re they were very friendly but just, you know, it was like, I was like, are you guys legit? You don't look very legit. You just look like some guys have walked up the street, are now behind a counter. So eventually made my way through and I also didn't have my money sort. I had lot American dollars. As you probably heard, you have to bring your money into Iran because of the sanctions. There's no ATM systems there. The banking system doesn't really work there, does it? They have a banking system, but it's for, for Iranians? Yeah, as foreigners. So like Visa and MasterCard, all that stuff. Amex, none of that works. Although I have heard, but I never tried this myself 'cause I had the money I needed. I heard that some of the fancy hotels, do you have American. Dollar ATMs, but I never experienced that. So I brought, I had to get all my American dollars out way back in Uzbekistan, and I had to estimate how much money was I gonna spend in Iran in three months. I had no idea. So I, I did a bit of, you know, I put the feelers out on the WhatsApp groups, you know, cycling east and that sort of stuff. And I got a rough idea of how much I was gonna spend. And plus I was trying to have money for Iraq. So I was quite nervous in that regard. But I also had no idea what the exchange rate was because Turkmenistan had censored internet and I couldn't get online. So then you had this whole, anybody who's been to RAM will know there's like the, the government exchange rate and then it's a black market exchange rate. You should change money on the black market, right? Yeah, definitely. Because the black market, you get a lot more money by 10 times as much. Wow. Compared to the official rate is, if I recall correctly, so people, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but like, and what was crazy too is the inflation that's going on. So when I entered Iran, it was something like 490,000 AL or to or, or 49 Toman, which is like another unit of measure to describe. Hundreds of thousands I think it is. And by the time I left the country, so it was like, let's say 40, 49 toman, by the time I left the country, that was to one US dollar. By the time I left it was up to like 65. So what's that like, that's like a almost 25% swing in inflation in, in just three months. So that's just how crazy it is, you know? So the people in Iran are, are definitely struggling economically. So anyway, got into the country and I, and some guy in the taxi was like, do you wanna exchange some cash? Was like, I don't know, you're just some guy in a taxi and I have no idea what the exchange rate is. I was like, nah, nah, nah. I, thankfully I had enough food to do me for the first night, so I just sort of applied on and uh, there was no place really. It was just, there was a small village, but there was nothing opening.'cause there's, was it Ramadan yet? Might've been coming into Ramadan, no. How? Ramadan hadn't quite started, but I was nervous about that too.'cause being in another Islamic country, I'd spent Ramadan in Indonesia, Malaysia, the year before. And then it's really hard to get food. And as a cyclist you're hungry all the time. Right? So it was cold too. Like I'd been, I'd been in wintery conditions basically since. September and it was now December, late December. I'd already had a Christmas in Uzbekistan, but I was getting pretty tired of being cold and I was still quite up high. And that first night was pretty chilly. And I'd heard about wolves in the mountains and so many times people that told me about the wolves be kept, be careful of the wolves. And I was like, what wol are the wolves? I don't know. And yeah, I made me quite nervous 'cause I, I dunno what to do with the wol. Like, should you throw rocks at it? Should you like run? I, you know, and so you get in your own head about these things. And I was in quite a narrow canyon and there was no, not many people around, in fact, no people around where I was camping. I was just like this rocky sort of canyon with the wee river. And as you know, just, I remember being quite nervous about it. Wolves and bears in that place.'cause I'd heard they'd existed. So what are you meant to do with a wolf? Did you ever find out? Um, no, but what I did find out was it almost never happens. You almost, it's super, super rare to see a wolf anywhere, basically. But everyone warns you about it. Well, the locals love a good yarn about a wolf. There's always like, you know, oh, there's wolves in the, you know, there's wve in the mountains. Don't go to the mountains. Is it sort of like us Aussies telling a backpacker about drop bears? Could well be, I dunno if it's a nin engine.'cause I think, I think they do believe it. You know, I spoke to many Iranians, they're like, oh, what about the wolves? And I was like, wait, so there are wolves? Or they're not wolves. But I remember speaking to, uh, a biologist on WhatsApp and other cyclists, and I was like, so, or, uh, as ologist, that's like, so what's the data? Like, are there woes? I'm like, there are, but they're very rare. And they're, they're, most of the time they're scavengers. It's very, it's very rare for somebody to be attacked. You know? You'd have to be, I think they said something like. You'd have to be injured or they can, they can tell when you're, you're gonna be an easy target. You know, it takes me back to, um, when I was interviewing another awesome Aussie bike traveler, Steph DeVry. Hi Steph. She's in Canada at the moment. People agent, but I'm trying to remember where she was riding through. I think it might've even been Saudi Arabia or something like that. Maybe. And people were warning her about the wolves there. And Steph's reaction was like, man, I would kill to see a wolf. Like I'm not scared of the wolves. I thought that is such a Steph reaction. But we're also talking about the same Steph who was like sleeping and there was like lions outside her tent and like hippos. Uh, yeah. Like she was Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another level of, of brave, I reckon Steph is awesome. I, I think everyone who's listening to this show would agree. Mm-hmm. And Steph, if you're tuning in, you know, we already think you're awesome too. A hundred percent big inspiration. For sure. So the first few days you, you obviously didn't see wolves. Did you see bears or anything like that? No. No. Uh, I knew there was a place in Southeast Turkey van. There's some campsite that is great to camp in, but there are bears frequently cited there because they know people camp and there's food. So that's one place where you're kind of guaranteed. But in the end, no, I didn't, I didn't see any, and I still remained a little bit nervous until I finally spoke to that biologist, but that was a few months later, I reckon. So, and I was only in the wilderness for the first day or two before I finally got into a small town. And that's when I started to experience the Iranian hospitality. Like I was trying to find a place to exchange money and I didn't know, should I go to a bank? Should I go to whatever? And I was trying to get internet, but I couldn't get internet 'cause I had mo no money yet. Although they do accept American dollars. But I only had a hundred dollars notes. And so it's like I can't, you know, I dunno if I'm gonna get ripped off of a pay here. So if some guy stopped me, some actually two guys in the car, like, can we help you? Well the first thing is like, welcome to my country and where are you from? And I was like, I'm from Australia but Ireland and I'm cycling. And then they were so nice, they're like, yeah, come with me. We're our friend. He's a guy. And I was like, it's this a scam. I don't know, like, let's just take it upon.'cause it heard so much about the incredible kindness and friendliness and hospitality of Iranians. I was like, here we go. Let's see what happens. And these guys took me to this guy's, uh, to their friend's. Exchange place. And, you know, he looked so dodgy, like had the slicked back hair, like big God, they didn't. And all the rings, all the gold rings. It was like, uh, I dunno how this is gonna go, but I was offered lots of tea. And then we had a big old chat. It was not about the business at all. I was like, what are you doing here? How you going? Like, Joe, want some food? What can we do for you? And finally, you know, they, um, they gave me the raid and I was like, can you guys gimme internet so I can check? I just, I know it's not that I don't trust you, I just, I just wanna confirm. And they're like, no, it's fine, it's fine. And they gave me a perfectly fine rate. It was no problem at all. And then they took me to a restaurant and they bought me lunch, if I recall correctly. And they showed me this kebab and I was like, okay, now we're, now, now we're cooking. So, yeah, and it, so it was really nice to have that first bit of kindness. And it was the first of basically what was like probably a minimum five times a day sort of deal in Iran. Like I experienced so much kindness on the road A across the world, particularly in per countries and particularly in Muslim countries. But I say this to anybody that I'm telling about the trip when I got to Iran and hello to all my Iranian friends out there. I've got some Iranian friends here. In Australia as well as Iranian friends back in Iran. But Iranians were like head and shoulders above the rest of the world in terms of their, just the frequency of their hospitality and then the level of the hospitality. It was just, they're just insanely kind and generous and welcoming. There's so many people just, you know, they just wanna have a chat. They wanna take you home and have lunch or dinner. They went me for a day, stay for a month. They won't let you pay for anything. So I was talking about earlier about money and I think I acted in maybe, uh, was it about a thousand bucks American maybe? Maybe 1200 bucks American for the three months In the end, I think I spent less than$600 US across three months. And Iran is very cheap by say Australian standards. But it wasn't just the cheapness, it was the generosity of people. When you were the guest, they refuse to let you pay. And anybody who's been to Iran will know about this social convention called Tarro Narrative. Tarro. No, I haven't, I never, I know about Iranian hospitality, but this, you're enlightening me now. Speak about what is it? Tarro? Uh, and it, I still don't understand it. It's like, it's quite complex and it's this thing about, you know, it's kinda like holding the door for somebody and it's like a complex social dynamic where, you know, depending on your status and Yeah, and who has to do the tar off and there's a certain number of times you do it before you say, okay, I will. Or, you know, and this is like pain or often to cook or whatever the thing is. Thankfully, uh, it doesn't really apply to foreigners because they know you don't really understand it. So I would just, you know, play the dumb foreigner and I didn't understand. So j I'd just say, is this tariff or what are we doing here? Is this, is this the dance or is this, is this you just being generous? And they've said, no, no, it's so tariff. But I think about half the time it probably was tariff, but you still have to play it. And so it was very confusing. But it's just this like, yeah, as I say, this complex social convention about generosity and, and not blinking first. Anyway, you know, whether I was a guest, you would, they would let you pay. But also, you know, I was going to say the bakery or the, the GR grocer or the little corner shop that had always had like a nice express machine. I'd be getting a little coffee and I'd say about 40% of the time they just wouldn't let you pay. And I'd be like, what? They're like, you're my guest. I'm like, no, I'm not. I just, I've just walked into your shop. I've been here for like two minutes. Like, no, no, welcome to my country. And then you see, you walk off with a, with a bag of vegetables or a bigger, it's nuts, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Obviously it's cultural, but I often wonder, like, I've heard this about Iran. In fact, I remember the first time I heard about it, I think it was another Aussie Mark Gress. Hi Mark who similar, very, very similar to yourself there. David Road through Australia. Mm-hmm. Mark did the Gibb River Road and ah, cool. Oh yeah. And actually listeners, mark is just about in a month and a half in May is going to be setting off to walk across Australia. Really shout out his, his Instagram handle is budgie esee, so follow him along. But he told me about Iran and then Roxy and Tommy, other guests who traveled east from Europe to Australia, they famously said, you cannot cycle fast through Iran. It doesn't matter what you think. You, you will not go through that country fast. It is impossible because of how generous the people are, but mm-hmm. Like, it's cultural. But what do you think it is that, that, that makes it that way? Like, you must have pondered this. Definitely. I think it's multifaceted. Uh, I think primarily it's, it's, it's deeply rooted, rooted in their culture. It just, and that's, that's going back thousands of years, like Iran is. In that sort of region of one of the birthplaces of civilization, right? Like sort of Persia and ancient Mesopotamia and all that sort of stuff. So I think it's just been part of their culture for so, so very long. It's also a predominantly Muslim country, and that's also a massive part of Muslim culture. Yeah. And like welcoming travelers and stuff like that. I think that exactly that's part of Muslim culture is a traveler is like a gift from Ella or God or something, isn't it? I think I've heard something along the lines of, yeah, like a, a stranger is an opportunity to be kind to God, but I could be wrong about that. So, um, Muslim friends, please correct my understanding if it's wrong, but yeah, I think the other side of it, which is I think less of a, less of a, a factor, but certainly a factor is, so Iran is a very geopolitically isolated country. You know, obviously the West and the global North has sanctions on Iran and, and I certainly don't agree with the policies of the government there, but it's the people of Iran that are suffering the most. And I, I encountered this in a similar sort of vibe in Pakistan, although a, a different, in a, in a different way. But I, I maybe felt that some of the people there, in fact, a lot of the people there that I I met were quite eager to show that their country is not as high, uh, as it's portrayed in Western media. Were not, so when I'm talking about Pakistan here, we're not all terrorists and, you know, and so what do you hear about Pakistan and the, and Western media? They're all terror. You know, it's only about the terrorism. You don't hear about the incredible hospitality. You don't hear about the rich. Rich culture of the country, the cuisine and, and the incredible landscapes. You used to hear about Al QA or you hear about SAMA and all that sort of stuff. And in a similar way, I think, in Iran.'cause all we hear about is, you know, the axis of, uh, evil or whatever. And, and they're trying to get nuclear weapons or they're, they're gonna attack the west, they're gonna blah, blah, blah. And I think the people of that country are like, well, hang on a second. That's not what we are at all. And we want to, we want to make sure that people, when they do come to our country, we show them what we're really like. It's not a fake thing. It's not them just putting on a show. It's like, this is how we really are and we're gonna make the effort to show you this is how we are. Well, that's sort of been my hunch on it as well. Mm-hmm. That it does stem from that. You mentioned Iran was a non-negotiable for you because you'd heard of this, there's an element where you're expecting it to a degree, but did it still blow you away? Oh, a hundred percent As you say, uh, was it Roxy and who was the other person? Sorry? Tommy Roxy and Tommy. Yeah. Yeah. You can't go fast. You, you, they, they, you think, okay, I'm just gonna come in for a cup of tea. Next thing you know, there's lunch and you're sitting there and you're meeting the whole family and they're like, do you wanna come to my garden?'cause they often, like in many of the Iranian cities, they'll have the apartment or whatever in the city. And then they'll have like a little plot with a, you know, like a, a beautiful garden. And I was there in wintertime, so there wasn't much growing. But in summertime, you know, they'll have all this fresh fruit or like dates or whatever the thing is coming out the garden. And you know, like, you know, sort of like the Italian Greeks or the Southern European culture where everybody's growing something. Yeah. And then you go to the garden, they're like, oh, well my cousin's having a party tonight. You wanna come to the party, you know, kinda thing. So there's always a reason to stay longer. And I absolutely would've. And I, and I did spend a full three months in a round. I was lucky enough to get a three month visa and I used every single day of that. I went as fast as I could, but at the same time, like, you know, it was like cycling through months in the best possible way. Yeah. And I imagine so many different experiences and as you said, friendships made there as well. Mm-hmm. I've heard amazing food. See, this is one area where Iran didn't blow me away. India. Oh my gosh. India. Yeah, India was definitely peak. I know maybe it's a controversial statement, but it was good. Don't get, it wasn't bad. I can see Indian food would Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, and I guess you made your way through Southeast Asia first too. Absolutely. Love all the noodles and all the sort of stuff you get in Asia, Southeast Asia. Did the cuisine just fall off a cliff as you made your way along then it's like, it sort of was, was it like a crescendo when then it just dipped off or? No, it was a constant, constant picks and, and chops, I guess you finished it off with, with, you know, perfect Guinness at the end. Right. And Hardy roast dinners. But you know, all through Europe, you know, like the pork euros in Greece are like pizzas and like all like Italy was amazing. France. Yeah. Yeah. The Balkans, you know, like no. And Turkey had incredible food. So no food was definitely, um, staying really, really, uh, high up in, in terms of standards. But in Iran what I heard was the best food is served at home. It's all home, home cooked stuff. Yeah, you can take good stuff in restaurants, but the best stuff is when you're at home. So I did have some nice meals, but I dunno, my experience was a lot of chicken, chicken and rice dishes. So I don't think I, I experienced the best of Iranian cuisine, in fact, since I've come home, a Persian friend at a birthday party, and I shouted to Sahar, they hosted a, a, like a bigger, a Persian feast, and I tasted dishes that I never actually saw in Iran, and they're like, really, like specialized homecooked noodles. So there's some restaurant in Melbourne apparently that does this, like specializes home cooked stuff. So, oh my God. Yum. I'm much more varied than a lot of the stuff I encountered, certainly in restaurants, so, mm. But speaking of foods, uh, I, I got to a city called BJ Nord, which is sort of the northeast I was making my way along the northeast, and I was gonna eventually hit the Caspin area before punching into Tehran. And I stayed with a warm scar host, shout out to a Min, and I met so many people called Amin, and so many people called Ali Reza, or Reza, like, it's just a very, or Moham is a very, very common names in Iran. But Amin, uh, had hosted me in his cousin's garden, so it was his cousin's birthday, and I met like 30, 40 people at the party and we're all having a great time selfies and food and, you know, sitting around this nice fire and this beautiful garden in the middle of wintertime. We established that there was gonna be another party that night at the cousin's apartment. And I'd been saying to Amin that I would love to cook a roast dinner for them because I hadn't had access to an oven for, I don't know, months really. And I saw he had an oven at his house when I first got the apartment. And so it was kind on my mind. And Amin, it was like, well, do you wanna cook a a roast for my cousin? I was like, yeah, why not? Does she have an oven? And she's like, yeah, you, she's got an oven. I was like, okay, cool. And then it just sort of blew out from there. It's like, well actually there's gonna be a few more people. And I was like, how many people? And I went from like. 10 to 15. Oh my gosh. 20. How many? All like, oh whoa. 30 people in the end I think. Pressure match. Yeah. I was like, uh, how big's the oven because I don't know if I can cook for 30 people in one oven. And they're like, don't worry, don't worry. We can use the other ovens. I was like, what other ovens? I'm like, uh, my sister lives upstairs and my brother lives downstairs.'cause this is also quite common in Iran and Middle Eastern countries. The families live in apartment blocks and they're all sort of beside each other. And so yeah, we can use the other ones. And I was like, okay. So I think in the end it was about 30 people and I cooked like a traditional sort of Irish roast dinner. So how many potatoes did you need? Uh, an absolute boatload of potatoes and you know, we're peeling them on all sort of stuff. And I did have a lot of sous chefs and so yeah, I cooked this dinner. I crossed three floors, three apartment floors. I crossed three ovens and I had vegetables, boiler car, boiling spuds, and like I was running up and down the stairs, checking on them. It was absolute lum. And I couldn't have done it without the people that helped, because otherwise I definitely would've burnt something and this huge pot of gravy and the food was laid, but when it didn't come out and everybody had it, 'cause I don't think they've ever had a meal like that before. Everybody was so stoked. And we had some homemade wine and had a lot, we did some dancing and some like traditional stuff. And, uh, yeah, it was a really, really fun occasion. And yeah, completely unexpected to find myself cooking for 30 people in some random city I'd never heard of and around before. What a, what a moment. You know what? I live for the food stories on this podcast. I always find a way to sneak food stories in David to every episode. This, this one takes a cake. Next time you could cook them a cake. Yeah, I mean, I thought, okay, the food's already about an hour later, the mood. I'll just leave it there. But I was, I was tempted. I was tempted. So, but from there I sort of made my way west, uh, to the casting area. And that, that in itself was pretty incredible because you go from being. I pictured around being quite mountainous Desert Dry and it was in places and where I entered from Turk Stan, the area was exactly like that. But then within a day, like 70 kilometers or something, I went from that landscape. I just, I got up one over this little mountain range. I can't remember is it the arb, rose Mountains. And you're now in like sort of the Caspian Basin. So this is like a region that is just north of the mountain range that sort of forms a North central or Iran. I felt like it was in Ireland. It had went from being dry basically nothing. Nothing growing. Maybe the odd tree to like lush green bales just fatal after. So this is one of the regions which Iran grows a lot of its foods. So basically all the land is cultivated so they're grown oranges and vegetables and all sorts and yeah, I just couldn't believe how Lusher was, would've been very stark because even if I think about your leading up to Iran, like the landscapes in Iran, aside all that Central Asia, like the high altitude landscapes. The isolated deserts of Uzbekistan and Central Asia to get through as well. Like, I'm not thinking of lush vegetation. Same. So it would've been very unexpected. Chalk and cheese. Yep. What about weather-wise then? Was that a difference too? Because you'd come through winter, did it, when did it start feeling really warmer? Well, not for a little while yet.'cause I was still in north of Iran and this is, this is like December, January. It would've been grim then. Yeah, it was very grim and it was pretty chilly at nighttime. So I'd, I'd had the, the Gregorian calendar, new Year's Eve, like our, our, our one and, and that was a big, that was like a non-starter. They don't celebrate it in Iran.'cause in Iran, their New Year's Eve is in March and it's called Nauru. And it's, it's a huge celebration for, for Persians. But it's, it goes to the, I think it's the Persian calendar, so that wasn't gonna be for another few months, but thankfully I was gonna be in the country for that. Is it like on the 1st of March? Not sure, but it's, yeah, I think, I think it sort of ties in with like, you know, spring and the end of winter and had all the promise. Oh, I wonder if it's on the Equinox maybe. Yeah, quite possibly. But incent all that sadly, I, I missed now too because. I had come down with a horrendous flu. It wasn't respiratory, but I just was beavering hard for like five days and I was camped when I first encountered this. And I woke up one morning, I was like, I cannot move. So I just sort of stayed in my tent all day on the side of the road and I was frantically looking for couch surfing hosts or like a, or a warm shark host that I could pull up with for a few days. I look like I'm really sorry, I'm not gonna be a good guest. I'm really sick. I just need to lie down and just get through this. And this really, really nice, uh, fellow whose name is Gibson, and I put me up him and his family. And ironically they were like the only family in Theran who didn't celebrate in a rules in any sort of meaningful way. Oh. And, and even so, even so, I was too sick for it. Like I couldn't, I could barely get outta bed, let alone, you know, eat the food and like, you know, do the dancing and all sort of stuff. But, um, he very kindly took me to the hospital and night, not for the first time when the trip got hooked up to a drip and got like the nice vitamin, you know, the vitamin cocktails straight into the arm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Saline up please seal and all the vitamins and you just feel so good afterwards. I did eventually, uh, get better enough to then move on towards the, the Iraqi border. But yeah, I was super grateful for that. But hopping back to the earlier stages of Iran and the Caspian area, it was really nice to see a body of water, a big body of water again for the first time in a long time. So the Caspian, although it was definitely quite underwhelming, like it wasn't very pretty, there was a lot of trash and it was like a very bland, gray, overcast day. So I crossed the mountains, met some more incredible people, had this lovely little side adventure near Mountain Dam van, which is this big peak, this big sort of conical peak. What a volcanic sort of looking Yeah, yeah. It's like really, really beautiful but no cap peak. And I ended up sending, uh, a fellow I met, I met him, his friend ran a tea stall at like a service station, and I was sleeping at the moss. I slept in the moss that night, and we just got chatting and had cups of tea. He's like, oh, my uncle's coming tomorrow. Do you wanna come say at, at my uncle's, uh, like holiday house? He's like. Sure, where is it? He is like, he just gimme the name of the village. And when I passed through, I got him on the text line and this guy arrived with his uncle and we drove up down, it was sh snow, like, and I wish I had skis on with me because like it was like lighter snow, you know? And we, um, drove up this village road is super, super steep. I was like, really glad not to be cycling. In fact, cycl would've been impossible because of the snow and eventually the car couldn't even keep going. So it was like, it's not, it's not too much further, but we'll have to walk the last bit because it was just too much snow. So we, we took a, you know, the backpacks and stuff. I, I, um, stole my bicycle in some shopkeepers shop and we, we trudge through the snow and it felt like it took, it felt like three K from where the car stops. And I got to this little house from the top of this village and he turned on this oil heater and, you know, next thing you know, we're drinking tea and eating this delicious, warm meal. And, you know, having, having lash and, and the next morning we got these incredible views of this mountain. So yeah, it was just one of countless little side experiences. Where people welcome me into their home. Oh, absolutely. Me. I think Is that one of the biggest gifts that you sort of don't realize you're about to give yourself when you take a journey like you did David? Like just all the experiences all condensed, like you, you were saying at the start. It, it's sort of really cool to be able to sit down to share the stories and speak about them. Mm-hmm. I remember during our first session, one of your motivations to take this journey was all about actually when you listened to the stories. Was it your friend? Was it, is it Tom Mackey? Yes. Tom Mackey, well remembered. I remembered you, Tom. Hello. And, and he had come back from a ride, was it around Australia or something? And he was sharing stories with you and so. You know, just that idea that you are now in that position to do that. The reason I say that is I reached out to someone that you met on your journey.'cause I imagine you met a few bike travelers, right? I did indeed. Although, actually not as many as I thought I would. I thought because I was going against the flow. I thought I was going against all the Europeans. You were traveling east, you'd be meeting 'em all the time, but you weren't. No, I I, I did meet a few. You obviously went off the beaten path a little bit. Mm-hmm. So just bear with me here. So I'm gonna read you this message and I'll see if you can guess who it is. Okay. David is such a legend. I'm extremely lucky to have randomly met him in Turkey. I was like a puppy listening to his stories all day. We sacked off the day and decided to camp on a, I know who this, just so I could listen to more of his stories. I cannot wait for this next episode with David. The man is so good at telling stories. That's gotta be Fergal Rossi, Tazy. Yes. Rossi to Ozzy. Fergal, ISS gonna be on the show. So we get to look forward to that. Ah, class. Yeah, you'll have good fun talking to him. Will I what? He's been through the wars in China for sure. He's now in Vietnam. Anyway, yeah, this is Al's question for you. I'm gonna play it for you and, um, you can tell me your answer. Hey Davis. Hey Bella. I hope you can hear me all right as I'm coming to you from Northern Vietnam. Uh, David, my man, it's been a while since we met on that quiet coastal road in Turkey. Your stories immediately grabbed me just as I'm sure everyone listening right now is captivated by hearing those same experiences. Uh, when we met, you had recently traveled through some of the most dangerous regions according to Western media. It was from hearing about your journey that inspired me to take the leap myself and venture into some of those same areas. So my question is this. In a world that often focuses on danger and uncertainty, what was it that gave you the conviction to embrace that risk and go down those roads yourself and for other bike packers considering such challenging routes? What would be your advice on balancing the lore of a venture with the reality of potential danger? Cracking question, right? Yeah. Uh, a very well articulated question. Thank you very much, Fergal, and I hope you're doing well in Vietnam. I just saw you've done the high hand yang Lipper, what's it called? The, um, no, I, well, that's how I would pronounce it as well. And I mean, Fergal Hass had such an incredible freaking journey himself. Absolutely. And he'd have many stories, so I'm very excited to hear his episode. He will, he will. He is indefinitely in a different climate now than he was in when he was going through China in wintertime. But back to you, back to gel's question, how would you answer that? And, and the reason I brought it up now is you were ma, you, when you finished Iran, were making a decision whether to go through Armenia or Iraq and you chose Iraq. So it's sort of right part of the trajectory here, but what made you choose those parts? Yes. I think a few things though. You, you mentioned Tom before and hearing his stories of being on the road and the kindness that he experienced, and granted that was way back in Australia, so we're not talking about countries like Iran or Iraq, but you hear such negative stuff about, but I'd, I'd heard from other bike travelers, the more, the more I got sucked into the world of bike traveling and bike tour and, and hearing the stories and you know, for example, reading Al Humphreys books as well and all the other stuff that I got amongst, at the very least, there's a curiosity to go is, oh, can people really be that good? Can the people really be that nice? But I also think deep down inside me, I have a, I had a faith that people, most people in the world are good. Most people are just ordinary human beings with families and moms and dads or, and they go to school and they have jobs and they, they have to eat. And this is actually when people ask me like, what was one of the main takeaways from my journey? This is, this is usually what I say. There are 1,000,001 ways to be a human being. We're so diverse. There's so many ways to express your humanity and, you know, and to, to live in this world. Whether it's through, you know, your culture, your religion, your language, your food, your your dress, all that sort of stuff. But then at the same time, we're all at diversity. We're all fundamentally the same as well. We're all just people and we have hearts and we love and we laugh and we cry and we sleep and we're, you know, we're human. And so I set off on this journey with, if not a hundred percent faith, a very strong inclination that this is how it was gonna be. And the people of the world not only met my expectations, but they far exceeded them. The level of kindness and generosity and welcoming the welcome that I experienced from so many people across the world just blew me away. And when I look back on the trip now, 'cause it's been about six months since I finished, this is what stands out to me. Yeah. I had, I, the nature blew me away. The food and all that sort of stuff and, and the round of adventures. But really. I think the thing that stands out the most is the interactions with the people and just how much goodness there is in the world. And I think that's so important to highlight because, you know, as we're talking about before we get on the recording, like there is so much negativity out there, there's so many reasons to think the world isn't in good shape. And I'm not trying to sugarcoat it. Like there's lots of stuff to be upset and angry about, but at the same time, it's just as important to give as much time to the goodness that's out there just waiting to be discovered and waiting to be seen and felt. Especially if you go on a journey like this, if you ever have any doubt about the state of the people of the world and just how much goodness or not there is, get on your bike and cycle halfway across the world or even the, a continent or a country and you'll, you'll discover it for yourself. What I'm not saying is I'm not guaranteeing that you're not gonna have hardship, that you're not gonna have a hard, a hard experience. Like Fergal will tell you in his, I'm sure in his episode, like he encountered a pretty challenging time, a massive testament to al's, uh, tenacity, but also. His heart that he didn't let that experience change how he saw the people of the world. He had, he had, he had one bad experience amongst countless good ones. And so what I'm getting at here is I think the vast majority of people are actually good at heart and they, they will treat you, especially at an individual level, treat you with kindness in decency. I mean, that's the overwhelming message I get. And I think we have a responsibility too, you know, because yeah, you might have had the bad experience, but as I think is so often the case, and I think you know this more than most because you've talked to people I've, I've shared their stories with you. Yeah. There might have been one or two challenging times and you do hear the occasional horror story. Then how many incredible stories of goodness and kindness are you ignoring to focus on that one thing? And so when it comes to talking about a country, especially something like somewhere like Iran or say Iraq or Pakistan or, or Sudan or whatever places, you know, that has such a bad reputation for different reasons, if you have experience that doesn't live up to what you've been told and the, and the message, and I would say propaganda that is so often pushed in Western media if your experience. So what I'm not saying, by the way, is make stuff up. Like be true, be honest about experience. But it would be irresponsible to focus on the negative experience or the, or the out there story. Just 'cause it's noteworthy when you actually had, you know, uh, 99% of your experiences were full of kindness and decency and goodness of, from people like that just wouldn't be, it wouldn't be right. You know? Yeah. Um, so before getting back into thinking mode, 'cause I know it blended on about, around, but there are a few things I wanna tell you people about it 'cause it's little known and it's, I wanna tell you this Sadams Castle story. You totally need to tell me that. So hang on. Saddam's Castle. I'm thinking this is in Iraq. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you decided not to go to Armenia and you would go to Iraq. Yeah. And the reason for that, I met, uh, a few people along the way who had told me about Kurdistan, Iraq. I didn't even know you could go to Iraq. I was, I was like, I assumed it was just too dangerous. But you know, looking back on the trip, one thing I would've changed was also good to Afghanistan. I was gonna ask, did you go to Afghanistan? No. It's the only stand I didn't hit. And I wish I had because Tamma another Irish fellow that I did actually meet on the journey, we almost crossed paths actually in Iran, but then also way back in Southeast Asia. But I finally met Tamma when I went to his pub in Kerney Carey. He invited me and he was a fantastic host, fed me, watered me as many pounds, had enough again, us to sink a ship as well. And we had a, we had a wig crack for one night.'cause at that stage he was in a rush, but finally met Toma. So shout out to you mate. And he's actually now, oh, I think he's in Syria at the moment. So speaking of places that you don't, you thought you couldn't go. Because when I was doing my journey, Tamma has done Gino, you know, Tamas By the way, have you used seen this? I think I do. I'm just trying to think of what his, what his Insta Is he on Instagram? Mass M It's on, yeah. Oh, I've been swapping messages because Tamma lives at the GI Talk area, which is where people speak Irish as their first language. And he's, he's been in Syria, so that's gonna be fascinating.'cause I'm not sure how many bikers have actually been through there since, and I'd be really interested to see what he has to say about it. But like, you know, that's not over, you know, there's still a lot of stuff going on in that country right now. So I, I had my good time, uh, with my friends, uh, near Mount Dam. Van and headed down into Teran. And you're asking before about, you know, when did the warm weather start? Well, by this point, it'd been almost like a four or five month winter. I'd been pretty cold since Northern Pakistan, and I'd heard that down in the Persian Gulf and the south, south of Iran. It was a beautiful time of year, like 21, 22 degrees, crystal clear water. I was like, I go, I'm going. I'm making a break for it. Like I've had enough this winter. So. After having a great time in Tehran and, and having a good poke around there, including, I have to mention, if you find yourself in Tehran, a must do is what was the former us What is the former US Embassy in Tehran and is now funnily named the US den of espionage? Like a museum or something or, yeah, it's essentially a museum and it's, it's really, really interesting. Deeply need that.'cause I'm really interested in the geopolitical stuff too, to be outside the west and then receiving, you know, another take on, on the state of affairs. And there's a lot of anti western propaganda in there, like anti US propaganda. But you know what, I don't think it's all untrue. Like there's, there's a lot of truth to what you're seeing there, and I'm not, I'm not saying that the Iranian government's got a perfect record of fact far from it, but some of the stuff you see there, it definitely highlights at the very least the hypocrisy of the West and the global North and American imperialism and all the other empires that have come before it that have, you know, torn across the world only to just eventually crumble, but at the cost of, uh, suffering and death. Still need people across the world still. But it's deeply fascinating to go there and you can sort of see you people might have seen that movie Argo, which talks about the hostages that we're taking. That's based on a true story. So you, you get to see the American Embassy some places, as it was, 'cause they were, they caught people like trying to shred. Paper that was, you know, collecting information, spying on Iran. Um, so that was really cool. But anyway, so I decided to take a, uh, a bus to the south because I didn't have enough time to cycle all the way to the south and then all the way back north again. So I took a, an overnight bus and actually posted my train, my bicycle by, by train, because it was gonna be a lot easier logistically than trying to, you know, take the weeds off the bike to put it on the bus. And I found myself down in a city in the south called Band Bass, and I'd heard about these series of islands. I didn't even know Iran had islands. It was news to me when you gave me a little remit of where you went. And I was like, islands in Iran. I was like, oh gosh, my map of the world keeps growing. Yeah. And uh, you know, these places were in any other country, certainly in any western country, they'd be world famous. But because it's in Iran and because of the, the geopolitical isolation, you don't hear about them. So I went to an island called TMOs, and, uh, oh, I'm going, I cannot say this other C like, uh, Persian friends. I'm sorry. It's so, it's so hard to say. But it's spelt G-E-S-H-M. I say Kechum, but it's, it's like ga it's like, is this, is this is this Stein that I just can't do. It's like me and the French are, we will never get on. Yeah. It's, it's hard. But still any Persian friends ever, you wanna, you know, post in the, the comments, whatever about how to extra pronounce this word. But that island kechum is basically one, one massive giant canyon. The whole thing is just this geological wonder with this incredible rock formations, or most is like, mind blowing. So like these rocks that are like silver, uh, deep, rich, red, black yellows, and then you have these beautiful, rich green trees and crystal clear water, and it's very like Arab influenced down there. So Iran is actually very, very diverse. You know, you've got, I think, 19 million people there and, uh, many, many ethnic minorities, so the majority of course are, are the Persians. But you've got the, so the Kurs, you've got the Turkmen, you've got the Arabs, uh, many, many different types of people there. And so down the south that's much more Arab influenced. The food changes. It's, uh, visually quite different too, as well as the weather been perfect. So I basically did a bit of island hopping for a while before coming back onto the mainland and then made my way back up through sort of southwestern Iran. And there's so many stories I can tell you, but I won't, 'cause we need to move on to Kurdistan. But yeah, hit some of the big cities like Yaz, Shiraz, s Fahan. And one thing I'll say about Iran is the architecture is mind blowing. Like when you're, when you're going through ancient Silk Road, you know, up in the, the Stan, uh, Turk, Stan Uzbekistan, all these places, the stuff you see there is really old. And you can see, you can sort of see the Arab in or so the Muslim influence and the Arab empires have sort of conquered, like they conquered those areas over the millennia. But then when you get to Iran, this stuff is still largely in use. It's really interesting to see how the architecture and the culture is sort of spread out and you sort of get back to the core of it when you get to Iran and you can see, you know, just these incredible monuments across the country.'cause it's, you know. As I said before, like pretty much one of those birthplaces of civilization. So there's so many things that have come out of this area. The last thing I'll say about Iran in addition to the incredible culture is I thought it was really interesting 'cause there is this geopolitical isolation, and Iran as, as I said, is this country that's been around for thousands of years in one form or another. They have not, they're only rich in oil and natural resources, but they've got so much skill and craftsmanship that are still in the country. So unlike so many western countries where, because of capitalism and the race to the bottom for for profit, where everything gets shipped off to, to low cost regions, and it's all about, you know, profit, minimizing costs and just making money. And I'm not saying that the capitalism doesn't exist in Iran, but that hasn't happened because of the isolation of the West. There is no subway, there is no McDonald's, there's no h and m, there's no Zara. You, when you go to Iranian cities and towns, there's no fast food joints that you'll recognize. You might see the logos, which actually love about this. You'll see McDonald's, you'll see subway logos, but it's all ripoffs. They're all, there's no copyright law in LA in Iran. There's no chains of places that you'd see in the west. You know, like every European city looks the same in Iran. It's completely different. And so what I felt from the Iranian people was this yearning to join. I. The rest of the world because they're sick and tired of the isolation. I'm the sure as hell sick and tired of being persecuted by their government. But at the same time, like my feeling is completely understand that, but like, don't give up your rich heritage or your rich culture at the cost to join the West. So if things do change there, eventually still hold on to all the incredible things about your country. Don't be in a rush to just sort of homogenize what the rest of the world like, Hey, you know what I mean? So like hold onto that really good stuff when hopefully things do change one day and you're able to, you know, come and go freely and and live as you wish. But I just, I absolutely adored that country. When people ask me what's my favorite country? It was Iran. It. It absolutely was. It just for so many different reasons. So, uh, a massive thank you to all the wonderful people and I, countless people that, you know, she'll be kindness and generosity there. Can I ask a cheeky question? Having been there, and obviously, you know, I hear you share the stories and I know you've been home with your mom and dad and I'm sure you've shared stories there. What's your mum's thought on Iran now having, like, you know, you mentioned she was sort of against you going there. How does she feel about it now? That's a good question. And I think in general, I think her main feeling is she's just glad I'm, I'm home and I'm alive. Glad you survived. Okay. Because I was there, I was there after the Hamas attack in Israel and then there was like, there was a volley of, uh, rockets being fired and. So I was a little bit nervous about that because although for when you're actually in Iran, it was kind of business as usual. People would just, you know, I think they've been like in these sort of states of anguish for so long that it is normality. But people weren't, you know, scared per se. But I was a little bit concerned that things might escalate and if it did blow into all out war, that could be a big issue for me in terms of getting outta the country. So my mo as, as far as my mother, her thoughts on things, I think she's just relieved. But I think she did come away with a, a bigger appreciation for the kindness of people across the world in spite of what you see on the news actually. Where was it because you did witness like drone strikes for, um, Turkey STR was, where was that? Yeah, in Iraq. It's not something you wanted to have on your bucket list to tick off. Is it? Not at all. Like, uh, a lot of people ask me are, am I some sort of adrenaline junkie? And the answer is no. I am a bit of a masochist. Like I'm no, I'm no stranger to like doing endurance stuff and like, you know, being in a bit of sad, uh, a bit of suffering, I'm a big believer like. Suffering, not torture. Suffering brings, builds character. You know, you know this idea of diamonds being formed under pressure, like you gotta go through a bit of struggle in order to get to the reward. The good example I think of in in the bike tour context is like I here back in Melbourne, I can just go buy a can of Coke, I'll drink a can of Coke and it might be sweet or delicious, whatever. And that's that. And it's a very cheap drill. If you're in the middle of the desert, say Central Australia and you've been riding all day and it's hot as hell and you've been drinking hot water because everything you have is hot. The last shop you've been to was like 300 kilometers ago. And the next one you're gonna see is gonna be in another 300 kilometers. And then some caravan or some gray nomads stops at the side of the road and says, how you going? And they're like, yeah, it's, I'm not too bad. And they're like, do you want some water? Uh yes please. And then not only do they give you water, but they open their rescue and give you an ice cold can of Coke. I don't think I've ever tasted a can of Coke as good as that in my life. You have a much bigger appreciation when you've worked hard for something. Or you've had to go through a bit of suffering. So that's my attitude. So I, I'm not, I didn't shut off on this bike journey to get myself into Harry situations and try and get out of them. I wanted to do something that was hard. And Al Humphrey talks about this stuff a lot as well, about, you know, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it and it maybe wouldn't be as worthwhile. And the fact that you have to, has to be a bit of hardship to get through it is what makes it more worthwhile pursuing, I think. You know, earlier you were mentioning how you ended up taking a bus because you knew you wouldn't have enough time to cycle down and cycle back. Mm-hmm. Was there a point in your journey where making that decision would've been a really hard decision to make? Like, I wanna know, did you set off with this view of, I need to cycle every single kilometer or. Was that never a thing? It's something that's come up recently with previous guests. I think Tristan Ridley was the first one to tell me all about it. Yep. The EFI principle, every effing inch, uh, is ah, is apparently what that stands for and it's um, that you should write everything. And I remember, you know, you mentioned our, I know that he sort of had that a little bit as well. So what about yourself? I also started off with that grandiose idea of, of how to, to keep the trip and, uh, I held onto it for quite a long time. And then I think a lot of this happens to a lot of people too who start off with the same sort of feeling that just somewhere along the lines you go, what do I do? Like it's all so arbitrary. You just like, there are no rules. It's your adventure. Like, you know why? Why self-flagellate the whole way? Like, I know I just talked about suffering and all that sort of stuff and I good it is for you, but at the same time, like enjoy yourself. Don't just suffer for the sake of suffering. Like if there's an opportunity to have a good time. And for me, really what clenched it in terms of sometimes taking transport, I still tried to, in general keep it to an absolute minimum. I wasn't like, I'm just gonna bust all away because I still wanted, the other way in which I was able to reconcile it with myself is. You know, when I looked at the route that I took, it was so convoluted. I did not take the most direct way, a proper squiggly line. I think I cycled like probably 13,000 kilometers more than I needed to. Maybe, maybe more than that. I'm not sure if I just, you know, plugged it into Google Maps and said, you know, check the land route to Ireland from Australia. Like, I, I, I did way more. So I was like, all right, I'm not gonna be too harsh on myself in that regard. But more importantly, there's just times when you can't do it all and you're gonna have to compromise. And so the first place that I really made a big compromise was in India. I had a deadline to get to China because, uh, my visa, which I'd gotten into Kadu, was gonna expire by a certain date. And I only had, I think, let's say three or four weeks to get from Delhi all the way to the Chinese border in North Pakistan. And I wanted to see Kashmir, I wanted to see Laak, him Pradesh, this region. But I didn't have enough time to do it all. So I did take a bus. From Delhi to Manali, I think it was. And I up taking another bus because I was running outta time again from Laak to Sengar, I think in, in Kash beer. And you know what, those two weeks that I spent in that region of India were by far the best times of India.'cause I wasn't in the plane, the Ganji planes in the Fri I of Summer, getting completely toasted. Every single day. I was up at like High Himalaya. I was seeing these incredible landscapes and I'm still doing some really hard high al cycling, get up to 5,000 meters and just experiencing this completely different side of India. And if I had been like this real, you know, hard case about every inch I. Then I wouldn't have been able to do that. I would have to just, you know, spend five days cycling from India to the Pakistani border and then moving on. You know what I mean? It's, it's opportunity. Cost is really what it is. Yeah. Everyone does their adventure differently and uniquely, and that's the great thing because there's no carbon copy way of, and right or wrong way of doing it. But I must admit, like hearing these sort of stories, the idea of packing in that flexibility, being open to changing your route and shaping it so that it, it becomes a route which energizes you, whether that's through doing the hard stuff or not, but mm-hmm. I totally take those seeds of wisdom on board for my own trips for sure. I would also say Tony biked tourist or people who are thinking about doing this like. Whether you're in the middle of a journey or you thinking about starting one or on the cus of starting one, ask yourself, when it's all said and done, are you gonna be look looking back on your trip and, you know, giving yourself a big old pat in the back because you cycled every f an inch and missed out on some incredible because you're, you're, you are gonna find out by places you didn't know existed along the way, places that you should visit but you didn't plan to. And then you're not gonna have enough time to visit if you do the every f and inch version of things. It's up to you ultimately. But I would just say like, have a think about what's gonna bring you the most satisfaction when it's all said and done. Because that's, I think that's ultimately what guided me and looking back on the trip, I have no regrets about making that compromise occasionally.'cause it did allow me to see the places that I otherwise would've skipped. I think I would've had heavier and harder feelings about that than what I feel about actually taking transport occasionally. Hmm. So I wanna take you to Iraq then and Sitan Palace because you've mentioned it. And then we went on a beautiful David story on three Roundabouts away. So tell me about what, how did you end up there and what's it actually like? Because yeah, you know, we, we obviously know what, what he was like, horrible, horrible dictator, but what was it like being in his palace? Yeah, and I'll just say quickly, uh, thanks everybody. He's still on, he's still with us, I'm sure going on the wild ride. We live for this David, don't worry anybody he knows me in any capacity knows, uh, you just have to strap in sometimes and watch my brain leapfrogs from one thing to the next. Oh, I love it. You, you sort of like a bike packing version of Billy Connolly. Like the story starts and we go all off course and come back and it all makes sense. Maybe less intelligible than Billy Conley at times. Oh, no, I love it. But anyway, keep going. Still, I was in Iraq because I'd heard such good things and I had, I had made that decision to go there instead of Armenia, as you said. And I did hope at that time that I was maybe gonna do both, but in the end I couldn't. I just ran outta time. I spent I think just about two and a half, three weeks there. And I, the rea, one of the other big reasons I did apart from hearing all the good things was like, when's the next time I'm gonna get a chance to cycle into Iraq? Like, and let's just see what it's like, like the, the part I'm going to, and this sort of brings me back to the second part of the Fargo's question, which I realized I didn't answer, was like, I. How do you balance the risk versus reward aspect of things? And I felt like at that point in time, I'd heard enough good things about the safety of that part of Iraq, like Kurdistan, Iraq and the interactions, the people that it was like, uh, it was a measured risk. It wasn't a war zone. I'd heard that parts of, uh, federal Iraq, which is the rest of the country down in the southwest, in the desert areas, that's still a bit unruly. But even like likes of Bagdad and some of the other major cities, they're by and large, quite safe these days. And obviously situations are dynamic and polluted and whatnot. But what I'd heard about Kurdistan told me that it was gonna be safe. And once again, my per mother's heart was broke when she heard that I wasn't leaving Iran for the relative safety of the Cacas and that I was heading in next door to Iraq. So how many candles did your beautiful mother light for you along the way? Seriously, a lot, right? Uh, mother Patricia. Uh, that's a good question. I don't know.'cause I don't think I've asked you how many candles you lit for me. So, or how many prayers were said. I have a beautiful Northern Irish mother-in-law who certainly lights candles for me. So, so, um, I was heading along, uh, this road. It's sort of in North Kurdistan, so Kurdistan's in the northeast of Iraq. And you're right, Saddam Husain was a bad dude and committed some, uh, atrocious crimes against humanity, particularly against the Kurdish people. And the Kurds are an incredibly stoic, kind, welcoming, friendly, and really, uh, proud people. They're really proud of the culture and they've been getting shafted by one empire or great power or another. For decades, if not hundreds of years, whether it be the likes of the Brits, the Americans, the Turks, Iraqis, uh, the Iranians. Like there, there are people that have been shafted many, many times in different ways. And, and in spite of all that, they're still full of goodness and kindness. So, but I had heard that along the northeast border with Turkey, that there are okay, no drone strikes. You might see some, I think I heard this from other bike packers that I met along the way. And I was like, yeah, okay, but I'm probably not gonna see that. Right. And there was just one day I was just like, along this road, I was like, um, sort of in a big valley and there was like a mountain probably as the crow flies, the ridge line would've been like a k and a half, 2K from where I was in the road. So it was kind a bit higher than me and, you know, kind of diagonal away from me. And I just heard this. I was like, whoa, what was that?'cause I'd been listening a bit of music and I took their headphones out and, you know, daring around looking for where that was. And I just saw this plume of smoke rising from the ridge line. I was like, whoa. And then I noticed that left of me, there was some people, like local people taking photographs and I, I, so I stopped and I, I ran up to the hill where they're taking photographs and saying like, what's going on? They're like, yeah, it's Turkish drone strikes. And I was like, what? Like, what's going on? And, and so the PKK, which is a Kurdish paramilitary and political organization that was basically fighting through methods of terrorism for Kurdish rights in Turkey. And there's been some moving and gro moving and checkin in that regard in recent days. I think actually if you check out the news, I think some later has. Something. But anyway, um, so the Turkish government is actively combating this organization in the mountains that formed the border between Kurdistan and Turkey. And yeah, I witnessed this Fri drone strike. I thought, okay, maybe things aren't as quite, quite as field as I thought they were, but ultimately it was very safe. There are some things, David, that your mother needs not know. I can't remember. I told her that. So she might be hearing this for the first time actually. So, sorry, mom, continuing on. Um, it wasn't the first time that I felt a bit worthy for my life in Iraq actually. And not because of the people, but uh, it was actually a lightning storm. I came into the city called a. Which is up on like this sort of natural rock permission and this thunderstorm, which was originally kilometers away in the distance, all of a sudden was on top of me. And I felt like it was in the storm. Like I've never seen like being strike as close to me and as loudly, it was like explosions going off. And anyway, I took shelter in a mosque and it was actually the night before aid. And, and I was welcomed in. I was, it was very good in the end. So, but I wanna get to Saddam's Palace 'cause it is pretty interesting. So the has hospitality of Kurdistan wasn't as frequently offered as Iran, but when you, when it was offered, like, it was just as incredible. So it wasn't like in Iran where every day people would say, come to my home and stay with me, kinda thing. But once you wear the guest, it was just incredible. So nice, so friendly. So, and they wanted to show you everything they wanted to show you and their culture and their food and, and show you around. So I end up in this village, uh, I think it was called Spin. Shout to my friend Sar, who I met, and he was, he was a really, really cool guy. I was at a little shop and he, he was buying cigarettes or something and he is like, what are you doing here? And it, he, he had this Jordy accent that would've been a bit of a spin out. Oh yeah. So like a new castle accent. A North North England accent. Because he had actually fled there as a refugee many, many years before and had lived in the UK for about 10 years and had since returned to Iraq now that things were in better shape. And so we had some great chats and his English was really, really good. And, and he said to me, if you find yourself going through my village, gimme a call and we'll start something night. And I did find myself in the village. Another thunderstorm had rolled through. And so once again, I was, I was I myself being the guest. And I met the chief, the Moar, he was like the village chief. This guy who again, super, super generous and. We had all these sort of feasts, had this huge kaba piece. We had these delicious homemade, uh, Dolma, which is like the dati, you know, the M vine leaves. I had the, I grew up on that, the Greek version of Delmar. These, yeah, yeah, yeah. The chiefs, not one, but two wives had been rolled, had been making these Delmar all day, like it was like quite bizarre. And all day. And the previous days I've been sort of doing this cycle around this other big ridge line on the opposite side of this valley. And I could see the structure that I was like, and I had sort of like a bit of a tar. I was like, I wonder what that thing is like. And I tried to look on the map and tried to look on the internet. I couldn't quite work out what was going on. And so when I got to this village, it was now like at a different angle to it. And I asked the village chief like, what is that thing up there in the distance? And he is like, oh, that's Sudan's Palace. And I was like, what? He's like, do you wanna go? And I was like, yes, I want to go. So he said, okay, well tomorrow, we'll, we'll drive up. So he took me to this like V eight Land Cruiser, absolutely churning through the gas. We're driving up this like windy road, and on the side of the road there's like danger landmine signs everywhere. And at one point, David, just again, there's some things your mother need not know. Well, the chief said it was good, so I felt, I felt that was in good hands. At one point he just slams on the brakes and then this gun, this rifle just appears outta nowhere and I'm thinking, what's going on? He's got the gun out the window and like, and then SAR in the backseat like, what's going on man? He is like, oh, he, he's, he's hunting. I was like, what? And so they have these things called, I think they're called coi. They're like a type of pheasant, and it wasn't actually a rifle, it was an air, it was an air rifle, but it looked like a frigging, you know, assault rifle. To be fair, we don't see a lot of guns in Australia, so no, but to that point in time, I'd seen a lot of guns. In fact, I'd seen quite a lot of guys, and very surprisingly, find myself on more than one occasion arguing with a guy with a massive gun, his hand telling them why I should be allowed to do whatever I want. And you kind of forget it with the fact that he has a huge gun in his hands. But anyway, so the, the chief was like, looking for this bird and he, he didn't get it in the end, so he put the gun down and, and later the glove box fell open, and then a pistol fell into my lap. And he was like, yeah, check this out. I was like, oh no, I don't wanna touch a gun Now. I'm, I'm scared of guns. You know, guns are scary. So anyway, we continued up the road and we, we finally got to the gate of the palace and there's like five soldiers and fatigue standing there with their own guns as well. And there's like a barrier. And the chief and these soldiers are speaking in Kurdish and Sadar sort of translating from me, telling me what's going on. They're like, the chief's saying, let me in. And they're saying, no, you can't come in. And he's like, well, I'm the chief, let me in. And he is like, no, no, no, you're not the chief. And so then the chief makes a phone call, you know, a couple minutes later, and then the guy's like, oh, you're the chief. And so the bar gets lifted and now we're, now we're welcomed in with open arms. Uh, Iraq is very tribal. Every person is born into like a tribe or like, almost like a clan. And it's a very strong, it's almost stronger than blood ties to say you're part of a tribe. And, and the chiefs are. Locally elected, I believe in there. So this, this Moar was the chief of the spend tribe. And once they realized who he actually was, he was allowed in. So then we're walking into this building that apparently at one stage was absolutely, you know, extravagant and lavish and all this sort stuff. But like, it's clearly been bombed many, many times, like exposed, reinforcing steel and concrete and like water drip from the ceiling. And these soldiers now are up here keeping watch. So in Iraq, in Kurdistan, you have the pitch Murga, which are the Kurdish freedom fighters. They, uh, basically have checkpoints on the way into and the way out of every village or time. Now again, I wanna stress it was extremely, completely safe. Apart from the Turkish doing strike. I felt extremely safe at all times. There was like, I never had any trouble. There was a time when it was a bit more unstable, but these days it's, it's very, very stable and I think it's getting increasingly stable. And I say these days, so maybe the last time was when Isis broke out back in what, 2014? Mm. Because it was actually the courage people who were largely responsible for pushing back isis, who actually fought back against ISIS when, when they explode our ribs. Syria and northwest Iraq, I think it was, this palace had been converted into a military outpost after Saddam had fallen. And so now it was, was used so this place that he used to fly in by helicopter and then I know wine and dine his other asshole friends or other dictators, I dunno who, who else he had in this place was now like occupied by these soldiers to keep watch over the local area. And I just, the whole experience was just so surreal. I was like, this is nuts. I'm in the same place with this, you know, monster of a human being used to, you know, probably as say one and down as guests and now it's, I'm here with these guys, these soldiers here, like making me cups of tea was for warn ourselves. But this little gas fire thing, you know, one of those really surreal moments of the trip. Very much so. Do you have photos of this place? Absolutely. I'll send 'em to you. I'll send 'em to you after the, the episode. I could not freaking imagine what that would've been like. Like you, you'd sort of wake up going, is this real life? Did I witness that? Did that electrical storm transport you into another world? Possibly and, and these are the experiences you get to have when you do a journey like this. You just find yourself in the most unusual and unexpected of situations. And I'm not saying this because I'm like, Saddam Hussein is like, you know, a famous guy. I dunno, how good is it? But it's just like so bizarre to find yourself in a place like that when you've heard so much about a thing or a person in the lead up to that pain. You know? Did you find David, once you moved through those countries, definitely Once you got to Turkey and, and kept moving further west towards Europe, did you find that the experiences you were having were changing because there wasn't that undertone there and so then the things that were, you know, different types of impactful experiences were more to do than, I guess with people or with landscapes as opposed to prehistory sort of stuff? Not prehistory, but you know what I mean? Yeah, it's a good question. Um, the sort of feeling of the adventure definitely changed as I got further west. So Southeast Turkey was still quite different and quite. Started Middle Eastern. Like I had a, we had a, I met up with some other bike tourists, Helina and Mike. Uh, I shout to those guys. Hello. Helena and Mike Collina. Sorry. Oh, hi Collina. We end up staying with the Syrian family. Syrian Turkish family, uh, Kurdish Syrians who had like fled the civil War and they were like now living in a weed town on the border. And they welcomed us in and just, you know, fed us feast after feast. And had, I remember their little daughter, I can't remember her name now, but she had one of those, she actually, she had Steph, uh, not Steph. She had Emily, Emily Energy, you know who we were talking about, Emily earlier on? Yeah, em Holbert. We were talking about Emily. We were talking about you offline. You're legend. Yeah. Shout out to your incredible energy listeners. Remember that name? Yeah, I heard there might be, can I say anything about that? No. Yeah, there's gonna be an episode with Emily and she's freaking awesome. Yeah, so I had really nice experiences and then, you know, it was interesting 'cause Turkey was like, now Turkey is an interesting country 'cause literally Istanbul straddles. Europe and Asia. Yeah. It's sort of got a foot in both camps, right? Yeah. And I felt, I felt when I got to some of the Turkey cities, it felt more Europe than it had been since, say, some of the major cities in Central Asia, so you know, like Beach Cake or Al Mati or Taj Kent, where they felt like Eastern European or Russian cities. And now when you get to Turkey, like you have these big, big Atar apartment blocks and you're not sitting on the floor as much, you're actually sitting on, on couches and furniture and you know, it definitely, it felt different and the further west it got, the more that happened. And then the big sort of culture shock really happened when I finally said goodbye to Asia and I took a ferry across from, uh, Borum in Turkey as it's pronounced, I believe, to a Greek island of cos 20 minute boat ride. Yeah. Not far. You know, you go from like a sort of westernized version of Turkey to all of a sudden you're in a British holiday maker land, like just. Like hotels, condos, people just there to like white eyes. Brits just there to get their like kink sunburn. I feel embarrassed by it. Yeah. It's, it's very cringe. It's, it's a real hard one in a way because there's also an element where they're embracing the tourism, they're embracing the opportunities coming their way because of that and because of that from an economical surge. But then there's also, I don't know, I just, yeah. Anyway, as you were, but totally. I, I like, yeah. I have mixed feelings about it too. And I think we might even touched on this in the last episode about how tourism and how it invariably changes the dynamic of a place and when masses of people from another country cool, especially rich Westerners or comparatively rich westerners, go there. And then, you know, to try and I'm, look, I'm not gonna pretend like I haven't done that too. Like, like one of the benefits of traveling as Westerner is like places are more affordable. I don't agree with it, but I'm not gonna say I haven't taken advantage of it. Yeah, like when, if you get to a place in the early stages or when Actually no. So like, Bangladesh is a really good example of that. When I went there, most of the people I met, in fact probably all, almost all the people I met had never even seen a Westerner and real life before, let alone had a conversation with one. So you're having like a really sort of unique experience. Whereas if you go to, I dunno, some tropical island in Thailand 50 years ago, you could have experiences like that, but these days it just doesn't happen now. Yeah, yeah. And so, and it's a very different type of experience and maybe in, in some ways not as good. Mm. So yeah, then I find myself in cost in Greece and I was like, now in basically it felt like Little Britain with all the British English tourists on holiday and people getting drunk and stuff. And, but what I will say is I had pork for the first time in many, many, many months, and I had some pork euros and holy smokes, they were good. I could still taste and now just salty fatty porky goodness. And I didn't realize how much I, I'd missed it until I finally had it. And the euros were sometimes okay, but sometimes just absolutely incredible in Greece. And when they, when you've got a good one, they're cheap too. Like they're really cheap, delicious needle. And I, I was seeing Lidle again and Aldi for the first time and I was getting stuck into the, the one euro juice curtains of wine and getting in all the cheeses and olives and. The food just kept going. That that definitely compensated for the change in like the feeling of the place. It was still, I was still in Greece, the country had never visited before and one I was quite excited to get stuck into because once I had finished island hopping my way to the mainland and I stayed with my good friend Kos in Greece, thank you very much for hosting me again. So that was a long time friend from way back in Slovenia. Down the days like 12, 13 years ago, uh, I started making my way up through like central Greece and that was a complete surprise and a complete delight because it was way less touristy than the islands. Way less traveled, they're much more authentic. So you're just going through these tiny villages with little tavernas and you're getting all this like homecooked meals and it's very quiet. And people just, local people just sitting having coffees and just, you know, like, you know what something Europeans are like. They're, they know, they know how to live. They're not stressed about making money and, you know, and, and buying more this and that and the other. They're just, they're there to enjoy life. I think there's a, a lot to be learned from Southern Europeans about this stuff. I reckon the center of Greece is pretty mountainous. And if I think of the rest of your route, you know how before you said you, you embraced, I guess you, you know, inverted brackets suffering, but you embraced the struggle of the physicality of the ride. Mm-hmm. You definitely are a mountain lover. Yes. Your route through Europe was perpetually mountains it would appear. Yeah. Center of Greece up through the mountains and then through the Balkans. You would've had some nice mountains there. Then Slovenia and Italy, you're in the Alps and then you choose to go through the py is like, you're choosing the mountainous roots as well, aren't you? Definitely, and I did that intentionally because I'd always wanted to have like punch of good roots through Europe. The be would be a highlight. But jumping back to Greece, like I got to metra, I'm sure your previous guests have talked about Metra Greece. Yeah, absolutely. Mind blowing place. And it was there. I met another bike packer, Karen. So hello Karen, who is a Swedish speaking thin, who was on a bike packing journey of her own. And she had just started it in Greece herself. And it was a really good time to meet her.'cause I, I definitely was feeling a little bit tired, a little bit fatigued. And maybe it was the heat.'cause it was very, very hot in southern Greece. And, uh, Karin was all about the gravel. She was all, she was, she had just begun her journey. She was full of beans and she's a really strong cyclist. And so she was super, super keen to get onto this gravel. I wonder, she's now, uh, she's in Norway. She's, she's been having a great time in, uh, skiing all, all winter since, so her, her route was gonna be from Greece to Portugal. I think she was finished in Porto or something like that. Okay. And so I think her trip was maybe three or four months. And in that three or four months, I think she, she covered. Half the total elevation I covered in three and a half years in the road. Oh really? Cramming it in. Just how hard she hit the mountains. So like super impressive. What a legend you are. If you're listening to this, get in touch with me because I love championing the stories of awesome women and you clearly are awesome. Yeah, she was amazing and her energy about getting stuck into the gravel 'cause I'd sort of, I even though I'd shed a lot of weight at this point in time, a bike was still pretty heavy. Whereas Karin's bike was extremely light and she had made lots of really scrupulous decisions about not she had, she was, yeah, I think her bike weighed like 25 kilograms and I was still lugging, I was still lugging like 40 even though I'd shed heaps of stuff, I was a little bit afraid of the rough, steep roads and her stoke got me on it. So we had a really good route called the, oh, can't remember the Greek bike fucking route now. But I, we also hit the rocky roads, which was in Albania and that was pretty rough going, but lots and lots of fun. Albania is a country gets punched down. By everybody in Europe, so, so in Europe it seems that shit rules downhill. So, you know, I dunno, the Norwegians punch down on the Denmarks, the on the Danes, the Germans punch down on the Italians. The Italians punch down on Slovenians and all the way goes until you get to Albania. And then the Greeks, the Greeks from the bottom and the south of the Albanians punch up on Albania. And the thing is, it was such a beautiful country with such beautiful people and I had that really, really nice time there. People superfruit, it's got a bad rep for crime and all that sort of stuff. But I didn't experience any of that. I just experienced really incredible Balkan hospitality and also incredible nature. And it's also a Balkan country that is like what Bosnia used to be. Bosnia used to be this lesser travel place. You could go there and have these sort of, you know, talk about those. Early stage travel experiences when a, when a country's just opening up. Albania is very much like that in the sense that it's not very well traveled and it's really good reason to go there and, and have those experiences, highly recommend it, and this incredible nature there. Uh, and there's also an incredible host in Scooter, a town or city in the north, Mega's mega warm shore, Shar host. I think it's Chuck and Sue, these Americans that, uh, have hosted I think like probably 500 people or something like that, or warm shaws. Wow. They've got this wall where every guest, they'll, they'll paint and we've got a photo or something. No, they paint. They get you to paint your hand and then you put a hand print on the wall and sign your name. It's really nice. That's really cool. Yeah. Very unique too. Yeah, exactly. So really great hosts. They have wines just sitting there d for you to eat and they're super generous and they've got so many stories and I think they're. Oh, they might be in their eighties and they're still touring. Oh, they, and they tour on, uh, battery assisted with coming bicycles for six months. How awesome. Yeah, so really inspirational. So if I'm still touring at Edie, I'll be pretty frigging happy with myself. I love learning about these sort of places. Yeah. Actually there's a place in Lub Liana. Oh, really? Which is really famous with bike travelers as well. I didn't need to do that in Slovenia because I had actually lived in Slovenia way back in uni for three months. Oh, there you go. So you had your friends there? Yeah, I was well connected in Slovenia. I had a very nice time. Uh, it started tonight and Marco Mitchell, Theran twins. Who, uh, I had a great time. It was, it was a, we, it was like a mini and David as well. We had a mini reunion and we'd done a Croatia for a few days and just chilled out. It was a, Slovenia was a very, very nice time. When you went to Croatia, is that when you, you got involved in like a Bosnian Croatian wedding? Uh, that was in Bosnia actually. I was, I was on the, I was close to the Croatian border. Yeah. Like I had a few too many beers that day and woke up with an absolute stoker of a hangover. I was so ly hungover. I was. One of those moments where you just question your life decisions. I'd had great fun at this wedding, but man, not, not enough water and like 40 degrees of weather and, uh, heat and, and the spritzers, which is like a, like a, you know, like a wine with soda, water and then beers as well. So an incredible feast and lots of fun and dancing. But yeah, I was, I was in a, I was in bad shape the next day. Thankfully my friend Stipe, who had, had ragged me into the wedding, uh, he was like this 21-year-old and like they had the hangover, didn't even touch him. He, he, he sprung outta bed like nothing had happened. And I was like, deaf become a, and he had a plan to go to a friend's barbecue down in this little hot thing on this crystal clear ice cold river where it was so cold, the bears were in the river, just chilling. And I dug my head in that river and I was like, I'd been reborn the hangover cure. Baptized on a lifetime. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So it was exactly what I needed. Your mother's candles have worked exactly. Once you got well into the Alps. Mm-hmm.'cause your original route wasn't going to catch the ferry over to island from, you know, the Pyrenees. You were going to travel, I imagine the world trodden path through up to the northern France and, and make your crossing from over there. Yeah. Yeah. Why did you change your mind? Because it's not like you hadn't had the experience of mountains. Like why did you have the pool to continue in that direction instead? The truth is, I just couldn't get enough. I just c like, I'd already, um, decided to, you know, we were talking about the do tech transport, or not the every f and k on step. I'd already said, you know what, I'm gonna take a train from, uh, where was it? I think it was like Grenoble or something like that. To, to lose I, if you were in the mountains, for sure. It would've been gr, I can't pronounce it the Frenchy way, but yeah. Okay. Wait till you speak to my neighbors. Anyway, so I was in the, uh, what is it, the maritime Alps that, that section of the Alps other side. Yeah. Maritime. How beautiful are they? Ah, like above nice and yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh, mega. I was on the, uh, Torino. Nice rally route. Gosh, I have that with my bucket list thing. Do it. I need to get over my fear of downhill dirt roads. And I, I realize that sounds silly, but Yeah. That, and that's my challenge to do it. I, I love the idea of that whole route. I don't think it's silly though, to be like, you know, yeah. Loose. I'm, I, again, like I said, I'm not an adrenaline junkie and I'm a pretty crappy descender, and when you're on a loaded bike, you can definitely trick your brakes very easily. So I would recommend getting hydraulic, like double, but now double twisting or something. Like, there's a version of shaman bricks where you get like, there's, what, what's the word I'm talking about here? But basically they're, they're much more powerful basically than same mechanical disc brakes. And you and, and see a lot more stopping par when you're heavily loaded. They sure do. When I crossed the Pyrenees, I went through two sets of brake pads on that very system. Oh, believe it. There, there was a lot of up and down in that trip. Let's face it, there were a lot of mountains, I am sure.'cause the nees are pretty punchy. But like EE every mountain passed. I hit in the maritime Alps. I was like, is this the last one? And I, I remember there was a day where I, I was, I had planned to meet friends in the Doong region and I remember thinking, okay, today's the day I'm gonna cycle to a train station and that's it. Done. And I'm checking the train. I was like, and I, I literally, I think I started cycling. I had done like 30 or 40 Ks away from the Alps and I just looked over my shoulder and I could see it peek in the distance. And I was like, I'm not done. I'm not done yet. So I, I, I turned around on that day. I ended up hitting, uh, gliber at the call, the Galiber. Which side did you do the galiber from? From, um, lottery or from I. So John Morian, is it, or from, um, the Telegraph, uh, what do you call that? There's a big, there's a Brion. Is that a, is that the Yeah, from Brion. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did you do the cold as wild as well? Uh, yes. I'd done that previously on the, because that on the Torino Nice rail. Oh yeah. I still have to do that one. But the Gallier, I have amazing memories of, it was one of my very first big, big climbs in the Alps and the views, the glaciers, the snow cup pinks. But I had, I had no legs that day. David and I had, uh, you know, when you just feel your body is hollow, and I don't have like the excuse of like, being hung over from a Croatian wedding in Bosnia. Um, it was just, so, I just had, I obviously, I think, yeah, we were staying in Grenoble. I didn't have enough to eat and we cycled up via the colder lottery. Mm-hmm. So we were, we were from the side, um, from the Borg dress on side, so mm-hmm. Which, which is where Up is. I got to the lottery and it's only eight and a half kilometers to the summit of G Libya from there. Right. But you've sort of had this climb all the way up to that, right? It's like, it's like 30 K or something, isn't it? It's like a 30 K climb. Yeah, but it's not, it's not super taxing.'cause A, it's the Alps, and so the climbs aren't super punchy. If I compare it to the pys, it's a bit different, right? Mm-hmm. But B, it's sort of like it. It's sort of gradual and then it's not, and then it's gradual and it's not. And there's horrible tunnels. I hate the tunnels Anyway, the only reason I made it to the top of the Galibier is because there was this amazing food vendor that makes these amazing pastry cakes, and I don't even know the name of them, but they were the cake pastries of life. I had one, my husband had one. We were like eight and a half Ks at the top. Yeah, we got this and we did. And it was an amazing climb. My gosh, the last kilometer and a half, gosh, that's vertigo inducing. It's just, it just drops off the edge, the switchback and like looking back down the road, you've come, like, if you get there on a nice day, like it's, it really is heaven earth, it's a mega because you sort of, you, you're climbing out through,'cause the lowest slopes at the lot rate's like a meadow isn't. Mm-hmm. Green meadow. And then you sort of come through and then, you know, it's so high. There's still some perma snow in places and then it's all rocky all of a sudden. Mm-hmm. And then you pass where the cars go through the tunnel and then that last kilometer and a half. Oh yeah. No, it's a leg breaker. And actually, I'm sorry I've hijacked your story, but No, please, please. But listen, this is just a little bit of Bella's story on the PO as well. Do you know what? My prize for getting to the summit of the Libre. An Italian dude, old dude, dude is the wrong word. The dude, an old Italian guy, probably in his sixties, just wearing what we would call bgy smugglers or dick stickers in Australia, just standing at the top, just bronzed. Just, and was like, oh, I did not see, to see that. Anyway, get aton, huh? Yeah. Or did he have one or what? Uh, who knows? My eyes. My eyes still haven't recovered anyway, so you did the clivia? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I came down The way that you went up, so I went down to Berg to Was, and I, I, I was g Noble garble. I can't, I can't Pronou, I can pronounce this. Yeah. I don't do the Rs. Right. So I'm not saying it right either. Oh, the tunnel's on the way down on that descent. Yeah, it's fun. It's, it's a mega descent all the way. It's basically descent all the way. Oh yeah. Yeah, it is. And I was racing against time 'cause I'd got a train to clutch. Yeah. I was, I was over ambitious about how long it was gonna take. And I'd enjoyed myself a bit too much at the top of Olivier. So, and then I, I, so I was like basically sprinting to Chernobyl and I got into town and then I found out that the frigging train was sold out. I was like, oh no, because now, so I was in trouble because I had arranged to meet friends, shout out to Pete and Pri who they lived up in, which is just south of Paris. They were the original reason that I was actually gonna head through Northwest France because he's one of my best friends all the way from east of my village in Northern Ireland. They live in France now, and that was the main reason I was gonna head north, because otherwise the geography in the south, the mountains and the Pyrenees, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go there. But they were gonna be in Doone or during, which is a beautiful place too. Fy if you did, did you get to the Dodo? Yeah. Obviously very different to the Alps, but very, very beautiful, like very quaint. It's very sort of fairy castle. Yeah. Yeah. And a nice river. Yeah, beautiful river. You can canoe. Actually it's, it's on my bucket list. Yeah. You can do this thing where you can like hire a canoe and do like a multi-day float paddle down the river thing. Yeah. I saw people doing that when I was there actually. As I was sipping my wine from the balcony and just watching life. Watch the World Go by. Yeah. You're no longer eating tomato paste with stale bread up in the, oh, no, those are good times too though. That was, that was definitely a highlight. Listeners, you need to listen to episode one. All of this is to say though, that the fact that I can meet my friends down there, instead of going all the way north, all of a sudden opened up a whole new finish off the European continent. Mainland continent. To me it meant that I could actually head through the Pyrenees for a bit and then eventually take a ferry from Bilbao and Bass Country and Spain directly to Ireland. So that saved me time too.'cause I was rushing.'cause I, at that time, I had a job to go back to and I, I thought, you know, I, I can't extend for a fourth time or whatever it was gonna be. Ultimately I did give me a redundant. So it meant I had all the time I wanted all of a sudden. And that was actually a massive blessing.'cause I had, I had the time then to enjoy Ireland as I wanted to enjoy the finish line with the best of the Irish weather by the sounds of it too. I know, I know. But with the ies, unfortunately I was getting to that time of year, as you well know, having, uh, because you live there. It was starting to turn, and I'd lost the, the good weather from like the more northerly Alps and the more sort of, uh, Mediterranean Alps. And now it was, autumn was starting to come in and so I think I had a maybe one good day or one and a half good days to hit the tural. A That was the only climb I was able to hit before, like just it and rain and like really cold weather meant that I couldn't really get the climbs anymore. We did not have a great year for weather last year. Yeah. So I can believe that. And the, the thing that I've really learned though, living in a small village in a valley where there's many valleys around us is one valley to the next is different as well. And also like with the toay and classic case in point, like this happened when I crossed the Pyrenees. We left home and it was low cloud everywhere. And then you get to a point where you break through the cloud. Mm-hmm. And tomay, it's a blue sky day up there, but then you descend into the cloud again as well. How did you find the, to melee? It was hard going. I was definitely tired. Like I, I couldn't believe how many of the, the coal and passes had hit in the maritime ELs 'cause I just couldn't get enough. Mm. But I, I think the fatigue was starting to set in for sure. So I was getting a little bit drained, but I was just keen to squeeze every last drop outta this final stretch of the European continent. But, uh, the weather was what, what clenched it for me. So I, I bailed down to Lurz, went, I had a look at like, you know, Catholic tourism on steroids. Got a couple of bottles of holy water from my mom. I come home, I was like, mom, I'm lds. She's like, oh, quick, get me, give me some holy water. So I got a couple of bottles. Totally. Well, can I tell you a little factoid here please. So please. My village is just a few kilometers from Lords and in our village we lay claim to the fact that the holy water goes down through our valley before it gets to Lords. So we are blessed. Ah, you're, you're closer to the stores. Yeah, allegedly. Allegedly. So that's what my neighbors tell me. It's an interesting place Lords, but I've gotta say it's like Disneyland. It's like Disneyland for Catholics, Catholic, Disneyland. I, and I have to say like the sanctuary and the grot itself, like there is a beauty of, you know, there is a difference there, but as soon as you go into the center of Lords itself, it's just tap. Ah, yeah, yeah. But the scenery and the setting of the actual town. Oh yeah. I mean, I live not far from it, and I'm pretty proud of my mountain views now. Yeah. You live in an incredible part of the world and I'm, I'm quite jealous, and I do one day hope to get down there and visit you because I, as I say, I just get the tiniest of toes and the nee and I need to see more. I mean, I, I've lived there now for a few years and there's so much more that I just really wanna see. I crossed them west to east in 2023, and I have it in my mind across them east to west. Mm-hmm. Because it, it's such a distinct difference from one way to the other. And the scenery is totally different from the direction that you're facing as well. It doesn't matter if you stay even on the same road, you have a totally different experience. And also you just have a different experience. Full stop. And I think the ch the challenge with, with the nee is that there's not like one road that goes across them. You have to sort of go up and down, up and down. Right? Like I, I was trying to find a route that would like, sort of, it loads a passes, but it's, I actually, there is actually a route, so there's like the raid nee route and there's like, oh yeah. Different versions of that. So the Raid Pyrenees was like formed and it was like a road cycle touring route from the, I think it's the Beyond Cycling Club, which is one of the regions in France. And it's like this official route. And if you're a road cyclist, the official raid route, I can't remember how many coals it covers, and it's just over 700 kilometers and I think you have like a hundred hours to complete it. But then there's the raid nee touring route, which includes a hell of a lot more climbs. And I mean, you can officially get your passport stamped if you wanna do that. I didn't do that, but it's a lot more like we did 24 climbs on that route. Whereas I think the official rate, I think it might be 17, maybe a bit less, but there is also another route called the V 81. Another route, which takes you through the Pyrenees, but without doing all the high mountains. And it takes you through the Pyrenees via the foothills. Mm-hmm. And so if you wanna sort of dip in and dip out and do a few of the climbs, but then maybe stay in the flatter parts, you can hook in onto the V 81 as well. So, yeah. I should have, I should have tapped you for some, some information. Everyone feel free to tap me for info. Always happy to spread the stoke. You've given me a few bucket list items to add there. Like, so when I do return to the nees, like I'm definitely gonna hit some of that stuff. Well, my house isn't on the route, but it's close. I'm sure we can make a wee detour. I'm sure it wouldn't be that far. We had to have an overnight stop at our place halfway through because I needed to change my brake pads and my, and my bottom bracket. Mm. But anyway, but whoa, what a trip. And I know that we covered off the final few, well I guess you had a little, did you have three weeks in Ireland? Yeah, it was good. Three weeks to a month. I, I, I can't recall exactly how much I did a lot of soul searching 'cause I'd already had a flight booked. Months prior, and I got a really good deal on my flight with Air India, something like this. And then I had this deadline of the, the job, and then I got made redundant. So I didn't have this deadline anymore. It was like, do I change the flight? Because I, I am really rushing the last section of this trip and I've, I've spent two and a half years getting to this point, even though it's gonna cost a bit of money, surely it makes sense. And I'd already promised people I was gonna be home at already, like arranged welcome back parties and all this sort of stuff. And I, it just, it just didn't sit right with me. So I did change my flight at great cost. It cost me more than double the original price of the flight to change it. But you know what, no regrets. Money comes and goes, I got to finish Ireland in style. I got a, i, I had that incredible weather. I got to have a good poke around the west coast. I didn't cover the entirety of the wide Atlantic way, so I've got unfinished business down in. Because it starts in Kinsale, isn't it? In Cork? Yeah. I mean, you know the Transatlantic way if you, if you're thinking of dipping into the ultra scene there, David, maybe, maybe that's one for you as well. Mm. And you've got a mate who's got a pub there. Yeah. So if you're, oh, what's the name is The Village again? It's somewhere. It's, it's on, in the Dingle Peninsula. He's not in Dingle. He is a bit further out than Dingle. What a place Valley Far. That's the name of it. That's where Tomas is occasionally.'cause he spends about half the year cycling around the world. So you might get him, maybe give him a shout before you arrive. I'll have to get the dates when I interview him as well. So yeah, I absolutely adored right up the West coast.'cause you know, it's funny that I live on the other side of the world line in Australia where people also travel from across the globe to see the incredible nature and scenery and all that stuff. And as it turns out, I had some pretty spectacular stuff. Now I'm very blessed as well 'cause I, I, I, where I grew up, Christian DOL has incredible scenery. Around it. The Antrim coast there is amazing. Yeah, yeah. And you've been there, you've seen it yourself. But the west coast of Ireland like that is up there with the best. I'm not saying this 'cause I'm biased, although there probably is a little bit of bias there, but like the scenery I encountered in Ireland blew me away in a different type of way. So some of the scenery I saw in the rest of the world, but in my mind. It was up there with the best, the incredible cliff lines and like even the mountains that I didn't know existed on the west coast of Ireland. And then of course the pub culture again in having a pin of Guinness and, and chant of locals and just experiencing that good, uh, friendliness and stuff. Yeah, yeah, totally. I recently interviewed another or Northern Irish person, CER potty, high searcher goes, uh, goes under the handle of going potty on Instagram and she had spent time away from Ireland like 10 years away from Ireland with university and stuff. And again, wanted to rediscover her own country. She did this thing, I think it was like the 32 counties and there's like a 32 county challenge. This could be up your alley actually if you look for another bucket list. And it's a ride through all 32 counties, which involved then hiking to the top of the highest point in each of them as well. Okay. And the reason I mention it is very similar to yourself there, David. Something that CER said, which really stuck with me during our session was, you are never a tourist in your own country. Ireland was just amazing and beautiful and she didn't realize how stunning it was. And if someone said to, and she's done a lot of traveling all over the world to beautiful places, but if someone said, you're not allowed to leave another country in your life, she'd be like, I'm okay with that. Island's pretty cool. I'm happy to stay an island. It's amazing. And, and that's sort of what I hear from you as well. I have to though, I would struggle with the weather. Like I'm pretty happy to have the sunshine of Australia these days. It'll be, it's actually 20, 20 years this year. I've been in Australia with my family. So I, I did joke earlier that climate change might make things in that part of the world a bit more amenable. But like, I'm pretty, I'm pretty happy to be living in Australia these days. I, although I still absolutely love Ireland, I will always be home to me. In some sense, but, uh, Australia is not home as well, so, mm. David, as I look to wrap the show up, I've already asked you my questions. You've already got your song. I already know. I think you're taking the corrugations and not the headwind. Yes. And I know that the best thing about bike adventures is the spaces in between. I need to think of something else to ask you, and I guess I'm gonna ask you something pretty reflective, biggest lesson you learned from this adventure that you would take forward going into another one? Hmm. Gosh, that's a hard question. Sorry. No, that's a great, that's a really great question. And the, the thing that just jumped to mind there was trust the road.'cause there was definitely times on this journey when I felt a bit stuck or like, I didn't, I was, I felt paralysed by where to go next.'cause I, I, I wanted to see it all and I wanted to, you know, and I, and I just some, or sometimes you were in like a really yucky city and you just wanted to get outta there and, and get back into the, the good nature, whatever the thing was. And outside of what I said earlier, by the way, about the people of the world who being good. That was definitely the biggest learning, but trusting the road, trusting that the journey is going to unfold. And that's why the way I thought about this adventure, even though I had the overarching goal of getting to Ireland, and that was always a thing, it was the journey and you know, do what I talked about, the spaces in between. In the last podcast, it did just sort of unfold in this really beautiful way. And experience after experience would open up to you as you just, even though you're peddling, you're also kind of going with the flow. You're going with this sort of this, and when you're in the flow you really know it.'cause then things are just happening all around you all the time and you're having this really, really rich experience of life. So yeah, trust that once you've started this adventure, once you've, you know, taken that doorstep, mile out your front door. You're going to have a very, very special time and something that will stay with you for the rest of your life. I love it. I might have to use that question again for other guests. I, I think I'm gonna get some amazing answers on that as well. Mm-hmm. By the way, I loved your original answer about spaces in between, like, it's something I've reflected on myself about why I love bike travel too. David McCort. What an absolute trip it's been. We've, we've spent hours talking yet again. How cool. And I really feel like I've only just like opened the window, just a tiny crack to get a microcosm of your adventures because there are so many stories and you're a great storyteller. And I think one of the best gifts you've given yourself is the ability to be able to share these stories, whether it's in a, a sneaky Irish pub, over a cheeky Guinness or somewhere in Australia or over, you know, a coffee, what was it called? Um, coffee outside. Yeah. Yeah. Like your coffee outside sessions must be like, it must be mega, but it's really cool and I hope that you are able to reflect back on it and remind yourself of this when life happens to energize yourself as well. Because something that's pretty clear on the first session and this session as well, is. This was so energizing for you and exhausting in an equal measure by the sounds of it, but just also uplifting. There's this sense of traveling with curiosity, with purpose to explore taking the squiggly line. That's a lesson. Listeners, if you're planning on these adventures yourself, definitely take it from your, from David too, and you can't pay for the experiences you've given yourself on this trip and the lessons that you've learned, which you're, you know, you are paying forward to others as well. I know that people listen to you. And get inspired for their own adventures. And I'm stoked to see where they take you. And of course you're more than welcome anytime in the Pyrenees All is, which you say, David McCort, thank you so, so much. But once again, sharing more stories and experiences here on the podcast for Seek travel ride. Absolutely. And I, I really do feel energized after having this conversation. I said before, I'm six months at home and it is sort of fad a little bit like, and so just retelling these stories is like, you know, just brought me back into those incredible moments. And that's just some of the countless ones that I had. So thank you very, very much Bella, for having me on for the second part. It was an absolute pleasure to reli and I look forward to getting to the NEES one day and having more conversations about my adventures and yours. And if I could, lastly, I wanna just say a big thanks to. All the people that, uh, supported me on this journey, both from home and along the way. So I'm talking about my, my mom and dad and my brothers and sister and their partners and that, and they're my little nieces and nephews. They all cheer me on from home, but also my friends, uh, to Tom, obviously for planting that initial seed to my other venture buddy Andy, who I do a lot of ventures as well. He is, he was always, you know, checking in on how I'm going and, and, and giving this, uh, the adventurous support. Uh, but then, um, you know, just as importantly, every single person, the, the countless names and faces of people that just welcomed me into their homes along the way and showed me and, and reaffirmed what I had a deep faith was the case anyway, that, you know, people are good and you just gotta get out there and connect with people and find that common humanity. And I hope that together by, by sharing these experiences that I've had with people, especially in these countries that have these bad reputations and whatnot that I can imagine and show people and all the other incredible people you interview on this podcast and having these stories and these conversations that, yeah, people in the world are good and we just gotta find that humanity in each other and we can make the world a better place. Definitely and trust the road. Trust the road. Well, listeners, there you go. I knew straight away when I'd organized with David to have podcast session number two that we would be in for an awesome ride with numerous stories told. And I am sure like me, you did not feel disappointed at all. It feels such an incredible gift to hear David's stories and the energy with which he tells them, and also the details that he remembers, but probably more importantly, that the messages that he shares right at the end there saying that one of the most important things was trust the road, trust the decisions you're making. I think when you're on such a big tour and you have all these doubts, sometimes that the idea that you can trust yourself sometimes can feel a bit of a foreign concept. But I hope that when you listen to these shows, and I know many of you do, to take inspiration from my guests, that these are the insights and learnings that you take from them. That you take their experience from their pania bags and you put it in your saddle bags, and then trust the road and enjoy an amazing, incredible experience. And listeners, I have put links to all of David's social channels in the show notes as well, so that you can be sure to follow him and see where his future adventures take him as well. Now, if you have been enjoying tuning into the show here on Seek Travel Ride and you would like to support the show, you can do so by buying me a coffee. It's just a little virtual brew goes a long way to showing your appreciation for the episodes, which I'm putting together for you here as well. You can buy me a coffee online at buy me a coffee.com/seek travel ride. Buy me a bro. But more importantly, when you do, leave me a message and let me know what's the bike adventure you want to be taking or what's the one that you've just finished. Until the next episode, I'm Bella Malloy. Thanks for listening.