Could greed be good? We want you to be greedy! We want you to have a pain/symptom free life full of movement and activity, love and connection, and passion and creativity.
We discuss how greed can support us accomplishing transformation, but we need to learn to do this without intensity or going into fight/flight.
Get ready to rethink your relationship with pain/symptoms, embrace a holistic recovery approach, and allow your aspirations for well-being to soar to new, transformative heights.
This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at Pain Psychotherapy Canada.
Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/
We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapy
Finally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ
Disclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk.
Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.
Could greed be good? We want you to be greedy! We want you to have a pain/symptom free life full of movement and activity, love and connection, and passion and creativity.
We discuss how greed can support us accomplishing transformation, but we need to learn to do this without intensity or going into fight/flight.
Get ready to rethink your relationship with pain/symptoms, embrace a holistic recovery approach, and allow your aspirations for well-being to soar to new, transformative heights.
This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at Pain Psychotherapy Canada.
Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/
We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapy
Finally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ
Disclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk.
Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.
Speaker 1:
Hi, we're the MindBody Couple.
Speaker 2:
I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Anne Hampson. And this podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn neuroplastic pain and mind-body concerns. Hi, everyone.
Speaker 1:
Hi everybody, welcome back, welcome back, we've got an interesting topic today. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:
So what we're going to talk about is greed is good, don't quit halfway.
Speaker 1:
Don't quit, halfway. Ah, okay, yes, I like it, tanner.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, now, we often think about greed in a negative light. Yes, but we're going to spin it for this podcast today yes. We're spinning it around? Yeah, Because we want you to be greedy. We want you to be greedy to heal and reach your goals. Now I want to clarify with this we want people to be greedy, but not intense.
Speaker 1:
That's hard, okay, because I feel like greed and intense they go together. You're greedy, you want more, more, more, that's intense.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's a fine balance for sure. Because intensity is not going to be helpful. It's going to keep you in fight or flight, yes, and that typically is going to worsen chronic pain, chronic symptoms, but we know life-changing healing is possible using this approach. Yes, that's why we're doing this podcast. Yeah, we completely believe in this. But what I often see happen to people is they don't dream big enough. They actually like limit their progress by thinking this is good enough.
Speaker 1:
Okay. So you're meaning kind of get greedy as in have big goals, believe things can get better, believe you can change. Yes, okay.
Speaker 2:
And you know it is going to take some consistent work. It's going to take some consistent work. That's not always enjoyable, yeah, and that's the hard part. Like we need to approach our pain, approach our symptoms, our emotions, our nervous system, yeah, and overall life in general, but that's a really difficult thing to do and I think it's important to understand that this is going to be a bumpy road. I don't want to promote sunshine and rainbows here. There's some points where you can lean into enjoyable things, and I want that too, but it is going to take some consistent work to reach our goals. Yeah, but we want people to be greedy.
Speaker 1:
One thing I think is important to note is often when people start this process or people start meeting with us, they're just grasping hope. So the idea of getting greedy is often, when people start this process or like people start meeting with us, say they're just grasping hope, so the idea of getting greedy is like I can't even get greedy because I don't believe it can happen yes, and I'm going to share a bit about what I went through to kind of emulate this, because with chronic pain and symptoms, especially if they've gone on for years, we end up in that dorsal, vagal state.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and remind people again what state that is.
Speaker 2:
So what I mean by this is we end up in this place of freeze, of shutting down, going numb, feeling hopeless, helpless, despair, depression's really going to live here, and so I think what I see with people is they start to get hopeful about this approach and maybe they can do a little bit more physically. Yes, and that's amazing. I want everyone to have that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
But what happens is and I relate to this we get to this attitude of like maybe that's good enough, Like it's better than it was, yes and so, and the work is difficult, so people don't maybe follow through the whole way to see how much progress they could potentially make.
Speaker 1:
So it's getting a little bit of momentum and then stopping, and that's the greed that you're talking about. It's like believe. No, it can be better, it can, can be bigger. You can do more yes.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and so you know, at the end of this episode we're going to well, anne's going to go through a little visualization meditation. Yes, that has some really useful questions in there that, even if you don't do the visualization, like jot these questions down because they're important ones to you know, start to visualize, start to brainstorm on um and and making big goals for ourselves. It doesn't mean we need all the pressure and intensity to make it there on a certain time frame, like be cautious of that, like we don't want to set a deadline here, but it's it's important to start to visualize this, to start to see maybe this is possible. Yeah, and so you know, for myself, at the end of my chronic pain journey so this was well over three years in, I believe like I wasn't moving, yes, I was clearly in that dorsal vagal place.
Speaker 2:
Like you can attest to that Like it was a very deep despair, hopeless, helpless and shut down, like just completely disconnected from the world, from Anne, from everything, and it was yeah, some of the darkest moments of my life were in there. And so you know, like we said, it's so common that, as a result of us not being able to find a route through the medical system, or to find hope with physios or chiropractors and nothing's getting better. It's very normal to get into this dorsal place Now.
Speaker 2:
Luckily, I came to a mind-body approach, yes, um kind of through my own research and reading.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I started to have hope that I could heal. Yes, so again back to hope being that starting place.
Speaker 2:
Yeah and I started to utilize all the things we talk about in this podcast. So if you knew this podcast, we have a lot of episodes go back, listen to them. But eventually, all of a sudden, I was able to walk. I think it was like 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:
Yes, which is huge. Cause again, tanner, like you're right, like you were not walking. There is a points where you were where Tanner was in a wheelchair and at some points was not walking at all, so this 30 minutes was huge. It was. It was a point where Tanner was in a wheelchair and at some points was not working at all, so this 30 minutes was huge.
Speaker 2:
It was a really big goal, yes, and I worked hard on that for a couple of months Very consistent exposure, work, brain retraining and I was able to tolerate working again yes, also a big change. Yeah. Tolerate working again yes, also a big change, yeah. And so at this time I was feeling more regulated, but not super regulated Like it was Okay.
Speaker 1:
So what do you mean by more regulated, but not super regulated? What was going on?
Speaker 2:
I was spending less time in fight or flight, so I was anxious or having these like angry outbursts less and I was definitely pulling my way out of that dorsal vagal place of kind of shut down. Okay, despair, like I was feeling less and less despair, yeah. But you know I was more regulated, I was feeling a little calmer, a little more joyful at times.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
But it still wasn't great at this point, like there was definitely a lot of fight flight free shutdown still occurring.
Speaker 1:
Okay. So, and I think it's important to point out here, you're getting through like you were physically moving again. Your pain was reducing right, yeah. You're getting more regulated in terms of your emotions and nervous system, but you were still struggling kind of in that area of regulation, because I think it's important to kind of note here again that link between nervous system regulation, or emotional regulation, and pain perpetuating.
Speaker 2:
Yes, and so things were on an upward trend. Yeah, and I was incredibly grateful because, compared to a couple months prior, it was already night and day. Yeah, I was leaving the house, I could move around, I was working, I felt more regulated in my system, but my life was still very limited, like if I thought of you know, the typical person out there that doesn't have chronic pain or symptoms. It was a very small world. It was just less small than it was.
Speaker 1:
Were you still living like someone with chronic pain symptoms?
Speaker 2:
Yes, there was still. You know, in last episode, last couple of episodes, we talked about the rule book. There was a lot of rules I was still following because I was nervous and I remember at one point thinking like maybe this is good enough, like maybe maybe I don't push the line anymore because I was doing a lot of this work, but there was a lot of fear moving my body more okay.
Speaker 1:
What were you afraid of, tanner?
Speaker 2:
I was worried of pain flares. I was really scared about that and I think a lot of people feel this way, and when we're in that shutdown, hopeless place of chronic pain and symptoms, when we start to even get to where I was, it can feel so much better.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
That, yeah, that I see people cut themselves short, and I almost did that too, because this work is hard, whether you're talking about exposure or brain retraining, or emotions or nervous system regulation, trauma work. This is not all enjoyable stuff, and so there was a lot where I was like maybe this is enough, maybe I don't like keep pushing.
Speaker 1:
Did that small world or that? Just this is enough still keep you in a state of a bit of anxiety around your pain, around life.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there was just so many limits, still so many rules.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And I'm so thankful that I didn't stop there. What?
Speaker 2:
made you decide not to stop there, like what happened there what made you decide not to stop there, like what happened there, you know, so long ago, there was just, there was just a feeling inside of having that small bit of hope, of, like you know, I think it could even get better than this. And you know, at that point, like I, I wouldn't be able to do what I am doing now. Right, like, like we run a company yeah, we're starting another company, yeah, we have kids. Like I wouldn't be able to truly function the way that I am.
Speaker 1:
Actually, and that's true Not that I want to, like you know, pull out Tanner's ghosts and secrets here, but that's really true Because I remember at points you weren't walking, you couldn't. At points you weren't walking, you couldn't function. You mentioned we weren't connected emotionally, you didn't know how much you could take on or what kind of future you had. So, 100%, I want to echo that in terms of yes, that is really true. I think years ago, if we'd be like this is going to be your life and all the parts of your life, you wouldn't be able to believe that you could function in that life.
Speaker 2:
Yes, and I really want to give this message that we can be a bit greedy here Not intense, but greedy of what you want your life to look like. Yes, and that's what I meant at the beginning of this episode, like greed a good way. Yeah, that's what we're going for here, but I think that that's really essential to understand, because you can likely, with consistent worth and exploring different things, get to a much more regulated place in your nervous system where you're feeling safer, calmer and more connected.
Speaker 2:
All of this is very possible yes but it's going to take practice, and even when it comes to moving your body, to doing activities, to all these things that that make our life very full and vibrant, like that is possible when the pain or symptoms are neuroplastic in nature, and so, really, you know, I give this message of don't stop halfway. A lot of people listen to this podcast. You're probably not new to the idea of neuroplastic pain or symptoms. Maybe some people are so welcome if you're there, but a lot of people aren't. And it's a bumpy road 's not? It's not a linear path.
Speaker 2:
You're not just gonna have your symptoms slowly decrease over time in this smooth way, like it's gonna be bumpy, yeah, and we have to kind of endure some of that bumpiness, yes, as it slowly decreases and goes down.
Speaker 1:
Well, and I think, as we've been highlighting it, it's also two pieces to focus on. So it's changing the relationship with the pain, exposure to the pain. But then we've talked a lot about nervous system regulation and emotions, and sometimes that's a piece that some people don't explore and they're just focusing on the relationship with the pain. We know that there's that emotional stress connection to pain. There's that emotional stress connection to pain, there's that nervous system connection to pain. So we know it's important to do exposure and work on both yeah, a relationship with emotions and nervous system, and then relationship with pain.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and then you know, even in the course that we're developing, yeah, like we really highlight that. Yes, we highlight focusing on multiple areas in your healing. Yeah, so that your world can widen in all areas.
Speaker 1:
Sometimes I see people with the good greed of like my life can be big right off the bat.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
But then they're jumping too far or they're pushing too hard. So it's like have that goal, know you can get there, work towards that, but do the work along the way hard. So it's like have that goal, know you can get there, work towards that, but do the work along the way, know it's a process, know it's a journey yes, and so the way we can do that, as I mentioned earlier, is do not set a healing deadline ah I think everyone wants to do everyone wants to do and I didn't do.
Speaker 2:
I was really careful not to do that Are little goals okay.
Speaker 1:
Like what about like that trip. I want to be maybe here or that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, like you just have to be cautious with it because it increases pressure. It increases that sympathetic fight or flight you know anxious, fighting against the symptoms, kind of feeling, yeah, and I think there needs to be an acceptance of where you're at today, yes, and that you can't control the progress but be greedy about where you want to get to when you're healing.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So it's okay to have both an acceptance of where you're at and where your progress is at, today or this week, but still these big goals and dreams of what you want your healing to look like and what you want your life to look like.
Speaker 1:
And it's important to keep highlighting that then we need to keep doing the work to get there. We need to increase the exposure, widening the world up bigger. So those steps need to keep going and rolling.
Speaker 2:
So what we've created is a visualization, yeah, but it's also a task people can leave with.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Because, through this visualization that Anne's going to go through, we ask some really important questions. Yes, we ask some big questions, yes, that people might be scared to ask about. So, as you're going through it, make sure you know we're watching our own system so that it's not becoming overwhelming. Yeah, but the goal here is to understand how we can get a little bit greedy about where we want to get to in our healing and maybe let people know why is visualization so useful in healing mind, body concerns?
Speaker 2:
yeah, so visualization is a really common one that's used as a brain retraining, because we're trying to give our brain, through visualization, new experiences of what life could be, what you know your movement or activities could be, what your career could be, what your relationships yeah, um, or even you know your relationship with your emotions or your nervous system could be. Yes, because when we're in that dorsal, shutdown, hopeless, helpless state, everything we think about the future is a lot of times thinking okay, my symptoms are permanent or they're going to get worse and my life's going to get smaller and smaller and smaller and unfortunately, that fear, that fear for the future, that anticipation will start to increase symptoms.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
And so visualization, is this brain retraining that we're doing, where we're helping the brain understand. Hey, this is a possibility. So it's a very useful thing to kind of get into and something that I used a lot when I was first recovering.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, for sure it is, and so I'll go through it right now, even if you don't quite believe it and like you're letting yourself visualize this and ponder. That's okay, it's okay to kind of be like unsure about this, but give it a try, let yourself lean into it, okay. So go ahead, if you feel comfortable and safe to close your eyes or lower your gaze. At first, we want you to slow down your breathing, inhaling and exhaling through your nose, so I'll take you through some breaths. We want you to practice making the exhale twice as long as the inhale, and so we'll do that now. Again in through your nose, then out through your mouth. Go ahead and do two more of those.
Speaker 1:
Imagine now if you didn't have pain or symptoms. What movements, activities or sports would? What do you want to engage in? Notice how you feel in your body while doing this. Allow yourself to visualize what would a day in your life look like if you were more regulated in your nervous system, meaning you spend less time in a fight, flight, freeze, shut down. Really break down how things could be different in your day. Notice what sensations begin to occur in your body Now. How would your relationships with your family and friends look different if you were pain or symptom free, again, noticing any pain or symptoms that might shift in your body. What would it mean for your life if you were able to approach your emotions with ease and a sense of safety? Lastly, again notice how you are feeling your eyes. And now return to the room. Were you doing this, tanner?
Speaker 2:
I was doing it too. How was it for you? It's nice, what was nice about it.
Speaker 1:
What did this do for you, tanner?
Speaker 2:
you know, I think it's a, it's just such a great exercise. Um, every once in a while I do it even when I don't have pain or symptoms very much anymore. Yeah, because I think it's useful. I think it's useful to to really place yourself in these different settings of what your life could look like.
Speaker 1:
Right, and so you know, this is our episode on greed is good well, and if it just starts with like visualizing and allowing yourself to kind of lean into how your life could look bigger, what that greed could look like for you in terms of having kind of bigger hopes and goals. That's a really good starting place, and then it's kind of pushing to keep doing the work to move toward them.
Speaker 2:
Yes, I think it can motivate people to consistently engage the work Because, as we said, it's hard work and you know we need that motivation to keep working away. Again, don't be intense if you're listening to this. But consistently engaging in the work is very important.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
So thank you everyone for listening.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:
And we will talk to you all next week. Talk to you next week.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening. If you want to book in a session with one of our therapists, you can go to our website at painpsychotherapyca.
Speaker 2:
You can also follow us on Instagram at painpsychotherapy, where me and Anne are posting content daily and are there to respond to your comments. Also, check out our YouTube channel, which is named Tanner Murtaugh, MSW, RSW.