Transcending Chronic Pelvic Pain with Dr. Kenael Segal

Discover the transformative power of a holistic approach to healing as we sit down with the remarkable Dr. Kenael Segal, a visionary in treating pelvic pain. Prepare to have your eyes opened to the profound connection between the mind and the body. Dr. Segal shares her personal evolution from traditional physical therapy to embracing practices like meditation and yoga, illustrating how these tools empower patients to transcend chronic pain. This episode is a treasure trove for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of the emotional and physical tapestry of pain.

Dr. Kenael Segal (she/her) is a Jamaican-born human being currently living in the United States (New Jersey) with her family. She is a yoga and meditation teacher, Pilates instructor, physical therapist, and wellbeing enthusiast. As a highly sensitive person, she is passionate about promoting social change through radical self-love, deep rest, compassion, and joy.

Dr. Segal is the owner of Lotus Physical Therapy and Wellness, a pelvic floor clinic and wellness studio. She empowers individuals with knowledge and skills to not just recover from physical limitations and dysfunction but to heal and thrive in their bodies. 

She has a deep love for the body, movement, and healing. Inspired by the natural flow of the Universe, she often looks to nature for guidance. With this guidance and experience, she has developed programs and offerings that cultivate balance in the body and equanimity of the spirit. 

Here are the links to contact her and checkout her work:

Website: https://www.drkenaelsegal.com

Substack: https://substack.com/@drkenaelsegal?utm_source=profile-page

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lotuspelvicpt/

Podcast: Beyond the Pelvis on any listening app https://open.spotify.com/show/7D55ulDFFhvx0luTyiLYR3

This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at Pain Psychotherapy Canada. 

Together Tanner and Anne have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/

We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapy 

Finally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ 

Disclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. 

Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:01

Hi, we're the MindBodyCouple. I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Anne Hampson, and this podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn neuroplastic pain and mind-body concerns. Hi everyone, welcome back to the MindBodyCouple podcast. Today I'm here with Dr Keneal Siegel, and she is a Jamaican-born human being currently living in the United States, in New Jersey, with her family. She is a yoga and meditation teacher, pilates instructor, physical therapist and wellness enthusiast. As a highly sensitive person, she is passionate about promoting social change through radical self-love, deep rest, compassion and joy. Dr Siegel is the owner of Lotus Physical Therapy and Wellness, a pelvic floor clinic and wellness studio. She empowers individuals with knowledge and skills to not just recover from physical limitations and dysfunction, but heal and thrive in their bodies. So thank you so much for being here with us.

Speaker 1: 1:26

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:28

So for the listeners, so they know my partner Anne's not with us today, but we're very excited to be interviewing you on our podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Thank you, I've been excited to have this conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:43

Yeah, and even reading that introduction, there's a lot of different areas you're you're working in and focusing on, which is amazing yes, but there's a lot to me yeah, yeah, complex, I like it. Um. So you know I really want to dive into asking some questions and really learning about the work that you do and your approach and what that looks like. You know if you're comfortable. You know sharing at the beginning how you really got into treating pelvic pain using more of a mind-body approach, like how that did that develop for you.

Speaker 1: 2:19

It was over time. It was a process. I recognize that the typical traditional physical therapy way just wasn't quite helpful. It wasn't very useful. It was more techniques about how to manage and there was not much discussion or talk about can this go away? The chronic conditions, right, can it go away? It was more of like here's how to help them deal with their pain, because they're going to have it forever. Here's how to help them deal with this, because they're going to have it forever. It's really just getting them to understand and accept that this is your life now. Here's what to do about it.

Speaker 1: 2:59

And I was having people coming back when I worked with them, when I would introduce like meditation or breathing or just mindfulness, where it wasn't just I have pain but I feel better about it. It was I don't have pain anymore. And it was like, oh, how'd that happen? What? What happened there? What happened there? And then it was just more my curiosity of, hmm, what happened there and why did it work and can we do more of that and can we get it to stay away longer? And then what's really behind the pain was really driving it. And then I also started to recognize that some of these patients had a lot of trauma or high stress lives and that could have been a contributing factor to that. And I just got curious and I would try this high stress lives and that could have been a contributing factor to that. And I just got curious and I would try this and try that and it seems to work, so I just kept going with it.

Speaker 2: 3:53

Amazing. Yeah, you know it's fascinating how that kind of developed for you, because it's true, like in the typical medical system like it's not something that's really promoted that you can use more of this mind body approach, whether it's breathing or somatic practices or trauma work, whatever it might be and that it can actually have a real impact not just on your emotional well-being but on the physical sensations that you're having.

Speaker 1: 4:20

Right.

Speaker 2: 4:21

Yeah, having Right yeah. And so in your approach, like tell me a bit about this, Like what does your approach kind of entail when you're when you're working with people, all right.

Speaker 1: 4:32

So I am a listener, right. So I listen to people and I I'm a believer in the fact that people might tell you what they need subconsciously, and not even be aware of it consciously themselves. So I'm listening for that. What is it that they need? What is it that may have brought this on? And then I'm sort of trying to like pull that out further and then address those things.

Speaker 1: 4:53

So if it's stress, like a high stressful life, then we may talk about okay, how are you managing stress? Are you doing anything for yourself? Are you taking walks? Like, what is it that you enjoy? If they say they love doing art or taking walks or hiking, then I'm instructing them or recommending them to do more of that, just to see what happens. If they're a creative person, then you know I may encourage them to. Why don't you take an art class or creative writing or just write on your own or paint or something on your own? And again, seeing what happens, like curiosity is a really big thing for me. Like, what happens if you do this? What happens if you do that? What happens if you don't do this or you don't do that? Does it change your symptoms and if it is changing how you feel, what does that say? And let's go with it.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Yeah, and I like the curiosity and and like exploring, because it's so important, because people come to a mind body approach in different ways and have different beliefs of what works and what doesn't work, and they and there's lots of great strategies out there, of course, but a lot of this it's unique. It's individual person to person, as you're saying right, of what works for someone and what doesn't work for someone, and unless there's that kind of exploration, we don't really know what someone needs to actually heal.

Speaker 1: 6:20

Yeah, which is why sometimes I feel like it's so difficult for me to really verbalize, like, what am I doing? What techniques am I doing? Because it is so individual. It's based on the person. It's based on their needs, what makes them feel safe, what makes them feel loved and heard or whatever it is that they need. It's really very individual based and even when I was doing more traditional, typical physical therapy kind of work, even the way that I practiced then was still very individual. You know, everyone didn't get these same exercises or the same manual therapy technique. It was very what does this person need right now?

Speaker 2: 7:01

yeah, yeah, and I think that's a, that's a huge place where I you know what I'm thinking about where people kind of get caught is they try to replicate, just doing the same things or the things that they've been told to do, instead of exploring you know what their body, what their nervous system is actually desiring or needing in a given moment.

Speaker 1: 7:24

Yeah, and to me, a nervous system is as unique as our fingerprints, right? Like we each have a different fingerprint, our nervous system is as unique and each nervous system has different needs, so it's really just about as best as possible right, it's not perfect, but as best as you possibly can really about figuring out what is it that my nervous system needs and, if you're the provider, what is it that this person's nervous system is needing right now?

Speaker 2: 7:51

Yeah, and I like that, that each person's nervous system is unique. I want to say that again because people need to understand this. Every person's nervous system is developed based on their biology, every single moment in their entire life, their relationships, their internal relationships, their external environment. There's so many factors that cause someone's nervous system to develop a certain way and then, depending what they need, what actually creates safety for them, what actually creates safety for them?

Speaker 1: 8:22

It's so unique and we even know for a fact that people who experience the same thing, right Like two kids that grow up in the same exact home, may have a totally different relationship with their parents. Like one of them, they're like parents provided me with everything I needed, I feel safe and loved, and another child may have a totally different perception of that, even though they grew up in the same environment. And that's because our nervous systems are so unique and so different and so many factors go into what makes our nervous system ours.

Speaker 2: 9:01

Exactly yeah, which leads into understanding why everyone's healing is very unique in what works for them, and I know you mainly focus in on pelvic pain, and when we talk about pelvic pain on our podcast and YouTube channel I know there's a lot of terms out there for mind-body pain we use the term neuroplastic pain right, Meaning that the brain and nervous system is really perpetuating this, and so when we talk about pelvic pain, how often do you find that people need a mind-body approach for recovery to take place? How often do you find and I know this is a hard question that pelvic pain can be neuroplastic or this mind-body issue?

Speaker 1: 9:49

Quite a bit. Actually, I do find that a lot of the conditions that I'm treating related to pelvic pain, whether it's vulvodynia or vestibulodynia, which is pain in a very specific region around the vulva or the vagina area, or if it's like treating men where they have like penile pain or scrotum pain or pain in their anus, like that is a sign of neuroplastic pain as well. But even things that may be considered more medical, like endometriosis or PCOS or interstitial cystitis, there's neuroplastic pain involved in that as well, or can be categorized as neuroplastic pain. Even if there's a mechanical or actual physical reason for the pain being there, right, like endometriosis or PCOS, right, there's still the nervous system's way of responding to that and there's still emotions and there's still fear and there's still a story associated with that mechanical pain or not, like there's still emotions attached to it and there's still a story attached to it and there may still be trauma attached to it as well.

Speaker 1: 11:16

So not saying that someone's PCOS or endometriosis or penile pain or vestibularodynia is simply because their brain did it that way. But pain's perception is coming from the brain and whether there was an actual injury or not, the brain does interpret that continuously. If that continues, if the pain does continue, if that continues, if the pain does continue, so there may have been an injury initially, why the pain first occurred, but the fact that it continues to occur, that's neuroplastic. The stories, the emotions that come up as a result of that, that's neuroplastic as well. And I say that as someone who's had has PCOS and undiagnosed endometriosis. Right, there's emotions and story and trauma attached to the pain. It's there.

Speaker 2: 12:13

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's so important for people to understand, because I think people see it as all or nothing, right, and we know that's not the case. That's not how pain necessarily functions and you're right, like story, thoughts, beliefs, you know the level of emotions or fear surrounding the sensations themselves. You know, if people were in this kind of survival state in their nervous system, like we can't separate that out from why pain's being produced, regardless of what diagnosis someone's been given, there's a reason that it's being perpetuated. I even think of myself, as you were talking right, like when my pain first came on. It was in my right knee and I knew I injured it because there was swelling, like it was swollen after I ran. That probably healed within a week, but then it just perpetuated on forward, and so it's important to understand that there might be something that sparks it, like an injury or a condition, but then everything else is why it's kind of perpetuating on forward or worsening, you know, week by week or year by year for someone.

Speaker 1: 13:24

Right, Exactly, and that's I think that's where people get tripped up is and when they say you've heard it, I've, I've heard it. Where people say, but I've had an injury, Mine is different, Mine isn't neuroplastic, I did have an injury, yeah, Years ago. Body heals it did, but the nervous system did not quite heal right. It's still traumatized. There's still story behind it that the nervous system remembers, that the body remembers right and the body keeps the score. That's why they say that, because the body continues to remember. I've had people years postpartum who have experienced or suffered a tear during birth years ago and they still have pain with intercourse. The body healed that right. The scar is, it's healed, You're soft, We've done physical therapy. But it's the emotions and the anxiety around the body remembering oh, don't put that there. Last time something came through here. There was an injury and it hurt me and the body's protecting itself. Don't put that there. Last time something came through here.

Speaker 2: 14:30

There was an injury and it hurt me and the body's protecting itself. That is neuroplastic. No-transcript benefits us in so many ways in lots of different areas. It just doesn't when it comes to to chronic pain and symptoms. There's this kind of protective mechanism that that's, as you said, that's your, that's your body's job, that's what it's trying to do, that's what your brain, nervous system, body is all trying to do. They're trying to work together to to best protect someone and I think, yeah, just that that understanding, because you're right, that does trip people up.

Speaker 2: 14:59

If there was some physical finding or injury at the beginning, then they completely write off anything on this side of the work. That doesn't make sense. You know, you see this with. I see this a lot, even with, like back injuries, right where someone pulled a muscle in their back and that was 20 years ago, but they're still having symptoms. It's like the brain remembers it. It created all this emotion around it. And I think the other thing you mentioned is sometimes, when symptoms come on, we can have this kind of trauma response to it. It can feel incredibly overwhelming to our nervous system that we're having these sensations that are unpleasant. We you know people are kind of doing medical test after medical test and nothing's being found. It's really normal for us as human beings to have this kind of trauma response to sensations that aren't getting better or potentially even getting worse.

Speaker 1: 15:52

Yeah, if we're not used to experiencing discomfort and discomfort is such a bad thing to experience we're always going to have a trauma response. We're always going to have this fear response of something must be wrong. We think the worst automatically, where it may or may not be true, but it's a story in our minds that we tell ourselves and we all fall victim to that. It's about recognizing I did that thing, I created the story, or I had a trauma response. And it's not to beat yourself up and be like, oh, I did that bad thing. Right, I had these bad thoughts. It's recognizing huh, I had those thoughts. Look at that response that I had. That was interesting. Maybe I can do differently next time if I catch it.

Speaker 2: 16:36

Yeah, yeah, I think you hit on a really important point there of the criticism that comes. Like people start to understand this mind-body world and they're like, oh, is this my fault? Like that's instantly what happens when? If it was something physical, they're completely off the hook. But all of a sudden, if it's something to do with their brain, nervous system, emotions, trauma, then it's their fault. And that's not the case. Right, as you're saying, this is natural. This is a natural way that we respond to physical sensations, but it's not awareness, as you're saying, the awareness of like. Okay, I responded this way. How can I shift that in the future when this comes up?

Speaker 1: 17:20

I think that's one of the reasons why people get really defensive when they're told that, oh, this is a mind body thing, or neuroplastic, or it's the brain right, or they get really defensive about it because they're like I'm not doing this, I didn't cause my back pain to hurt, I didn't do you know it's all about. They feel very defensive because they feel like they did something wrong. Where it's like no one said you did anything wrong, your nervous system responded reflexively what about that is wrong? There's nothing wrong about your body, your nervous system, doing what it's built and made to do. It's just about being aware of it.

Speaker 2: 18:00

You know, like we said before, yeah, yeah, and I think that's so key because it's that blame that really makes people defensive. What you've probably experienced in your work is I have where people are never willing to even open up this side of things or even consider that they're there, because then all of a sudden, for some reason, they're to blame for it, right.

Speaker 1: 18:25

They feel really bad.

Speaker 2: 18:27

Yeah, and, as we know, you're not to blame. You're not to blame for this. And I think something you touched on too is the factors that can cause chronic pain, chronic symptoms, chronic pelvic pain. It's not, it's not just one factor, often like, yeah, maybe an injury happened or something took place, but, as you had said earlier in this interview, like there's all these different factors that led up to that.

Speaker 2: 18:53

Right, there's trauma, childhood adversity, the way you respond to emotions, a lifestyle that perpetuates, kind of this survival energy, like it's all propelling things forward. And you know we understand this with mental health and you know, I think there's been lots of campaigns to help people understand like, hey, you don't have to blame for your mental health, right, like there's all these factors. Now we can do things to start to work with it and change things. But I think that attitude needs to be applied here as well, where it's like you're not to blame for these symptoms being perpetuated in your body exactly so you know, speaking of the many areas you work in, I have a lot of questions here.

Speaker 2: 19:38

You talked about meditation, yoga. I know movement is a big thing you focus on and I'm just wondering what can you tell people about? How these different modalities, these different practices can be useful for them? Like whether it's meditation, yoga, movement, like how, how do these things actually benefit people when they're healing?

Speaker 1: 20:06

kind of in this mind, mind, body, lens, right. So that's our meditation. Meditation is just a way of quieting and calming the nervous system, right? If someone is in acute pain or just like debilitating pain, the last thing they want to be told is go sit and meditate and calm down. Right. But the more we can practice feeling calm and quiet in our bodies, minds, spirits, our whole entire nervous system, the calmer and quieter the pain, the sensation, everything we'll feel. But that is not even step one, right? That's the end goal. The end goal is wanting the nervous system to be more calm, to be more quiet. To get there, some people need to start with movement, right. So exercise is a way of.

Speaker 1: 20:57

For me, I look at it as tiring out and fatiguing the nervous system so that it has no choice but to quiet down. Then you can meditate, and yoga is the combination of the two. You're moving in a way where you're very mindful of your movement. What am I moving? How does it feel to move? What is other parts of my body doing? It's really like connecting your mind to your body, like bringing in all your senses, all your awareness to notice how you're moving, the quality of the movement, all without judgment, right the quality of that movement, breathing at the same time and quieting and calming the nervous system. Because you're so focused on how you move and your body, you can't be, focused on anything else.

Speaker 1: 21:47

Our nervous system is complex, but it's also very basic. We can't focus on two things at the same time. Either you're focused on your pain and your misery, or you're focused on your movement and your breathing right. It's one or the other. So we can exercise, fatigue the nervous system and then try to calm down the nervous system some more. Through meditation. We can be mindfully moving through exercise practices or other movement practices like yoga and then move more into a meditation.

Speaker 1: 22:24

But the whole goal of any of that is to practice being in a more parasympathetic nervous system tone or dominance versus the sympathetic, which is the fight or flight where things get real panicky and there's anxiety and all the things we don't like happen during that. And it's not that the sympathetic nervous system is bad. It's great when there's something actually happening that needs our focus and attention and we need to fight or flight or freeze right. Those do come in handy. But the problem is we end up staying in that condition a little bit too long over the course of the day and we never come back down to parasympathetic, where we're supposed to be, pretty much most of the time.

Speaker 2: 23:10

Yeah, yeah, and I think this is such an important. Well, you said so many things that are vital and you know we talk about our society, our culture. A lot of people with kind of these neuroplastic pain or symptoms. They're in this constant sympathetic, fight, flight, irritated, anxious, nervous, rageful, like they're constantly in this zone. And, like you said, like being mobilized sometimes is great, it can be really useful, but there there is this downside, as we know, that it can perpetuate our symptoms.

Speaker 2: 23:52

You're right, like all these different ways and and when I was reading your bio before this, that's what I appreciate about this is there's so many different areas that you're doing like different ways that you're getting people to that parasympathetic, calm, connected, kind of safe, at ease zone, Because it's a little bit different, as we were saying, like everyone's nervous system is unique and what works for them is going to vary, and that's why that exploration of different things. And it's hard because the problem with movement is when we have chronic pain, that's the first thing to go for a long time. It's like that's it Like, that's it Like. When I was in chronic pain, that was the first thing that I started to be like movement's bad, so I stopped moving and then became incredibly dysregulated as a result, because it's that movement, well-being in that parasympathetic zone, that is so vital, whether you talk about yoga or meditation or various practices.

Speaker 2: 24:52

It's so important that we get back there, and I think that's a key ingredient for people's healing is there needs to be movement. If we just avoid movement altogether, it's really hard for our nervous system to ever feel in this calm, connected, safe zone.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Right, we're made to move and people forget that. And yes, I get it. When you experienced chronic pain, you said it, the first thing you did was not moving because it doesn't feel safe to move anymore. But when you can chronic pain, you said it the first thing you did was well, I'm not moving because it doesn't feel safe to move anymore. But when you can move in a way that feels safe, that's just confirmation to your body of oh, I can move in a way that feels safe. And the more you do that, the more safe your body will feel, the more your nervous system will begin to now regulate and go oh okay, it's not so dangerous out here, I can calm down now, it will eventually.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Yeah, and that's so key because I think something that people really walk onto in a mind-body approach is and I was thinking about this the other day people really like the cognitive messages of safety. Right, and there's nothing wrong with that. They're important, like changing your thoughts, beliefs, giving your cognitive messages of safety about your body is an important element of healing chronic pain and symptoms, of healing chronic pain and symptoms. But the other thing that you're kind of talking about is these like somatic messages of safety that we need to send to our brain and nervous system, and one of the ways we do that, when we've been in chronic pain, basically in stillness, constantly not moving, is you actually start to approach mindfully this movement, because that's a way that our brain gets these messages of safety you know from the body yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:38

Yeah, totally. I mean, if we're not moving, if we're feeling in, if we're feeling this constant you know, fight, flight or freeze sensations or symptoms we're experiencing, that right, let's get the fight right. Like your body wants to fight things off, right. And if you're like, no, it's scary to move, you're going against what your body wants to do. So, like one thing I do with myself and my family I have three small children I will tell them. If you get so angry that you feel like there's energy in your hands and you want to like, do something with it, do something with it in a safe way that's not going to hurt yourself or anyone else. We have a giant beanbag and I'm like, go punch the beanbag, don't hurt your hand, like it's not going to hurt their hands, right, but I'm like punch the beanbag or like go outside and like pull weeds, like do something with your hands right.

Speaker 1: 27:33

If it's your feet that want to move, go outside and run, go kick some leaves, go do something to get that energy out of your body right. So we have to move that energy out of our body. But then when we look at the freeze, like our body wants to shut down moving, doing the opposite of that is showing your nervous system. It's okay to move. You don't have to be in this free state. Look, you're moving and nothing bad is happening, right Again, confirmation that you're safe. You can get this out of your body. You're safe, it's okay.

Speaker 2: 28:08

Yeah, yeah. And I think this, this is so, so important, because what will happen to people is they feel emotions, they feel dysregulation and they feel like they need to process them by just sitting, still never moving, like you know what I mean. Like this is how people are taught, but that's not how our nervous system wants to process things, whether you're in fight, flight, freeze, shutdown, like movement is a really important element to that and you know I don't want to discredit, like stillness can be important as well, depending on where we're at. But I was smiling there because I tell my son who's six, I tell him to do the same thing. Like he goes and like you know he just punches his bed or throws his stuffed animals.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Like you know, similar to you, like I'm trying to teach, like you know, allow, allow yourself to feel that energy, be present with it and allow your body to move. And that's why it's so key to to regulation is, you know, as people people start to recover from chronic pain and symptoms and they start to move their body more, it all starts to perpetuate themselves forward in this kind of safety cycle, right when their brain and nervous system is getting messages from the body like, hey, we're safe. And it's getting messages from the body of like an allowance of moving our body to process emotions and kind of that survival, kind of energy that we feel.

Speaker 1: 29:34

Yeah, and then when I recommend to people it's like, find what works for you. Like I choose to do that with yoga, with meditation, with Pilates, but someone else might want to go do like really heavy lifting, or they may run, or they want to dance or they want to do kickboxing, like something. Find a way that works for you. Find something that works for you. There's something out there for everybody.

Speaker 2: 30:05

Yeah, it just makes that, as you talked about at the beginning of this interview, that curiosity and exploration of trying different things and noticing what's the response in your nervous system as you do this. Yes, exactly, and and then people can find this package that that really does help create, you know, for their unique nervous system, this kind of regulated package of of things that they can do. So, you know, I also want to spend some time at the end here, just if you could share with the listeners you know the different programs you offer and and how they can go about working with you.

Speaker 1: 30:42

Right. So I do in-person and virtual. So people who are local to the New Jersey area I will see people in person, but I also do virtual as well. So my virtual for people outside of New Jersey looks more like coaching. So it may be an exploration where we find out what's going on with their nervous system when do they feel off? Why doesn't it feel safe? What do they need in order to feel safe? And then coming up with the package, as you mentioned, like what are the package of things that this nervous system needs, and then doing it. And then my job really is to, like guide and support.

Speaker 1: 31:23

Whether I work with people in person or virtually, whether it's physical therapy or coaching, whether it's physical therapy or coaching, it's really just finding out what the individual needs and then supporting them through that, because if they were doing that before, they wouldn't be in the situation that they're in. So my job isn't to do the things for people, it's really to teach them people. It's really to teach them what they need, pulling out, you know, based on speaking with them, what is it that they need best, and then offering up that to them, like okay, hey, I think this is what you might need. Or you mentioned that you used to dance back in the day. Maybe try dancing now. It's really just about teaching them how to is you know, part of what I do is to help people not just recover from their symptoms but thrive in their bodies. Like how can they be their most authentic self? And when you are living your most authentic life, you are in alignment with things, there's less stress, things don't bother you as much because you are content. Right, you are content with everything and you are aware and you are present.

Speaker 1: 32:38

And not to say that life is always good and dandy, right, like, things do come up, but you just handle it better.

Speaker 1: 32:46

So when stress does come up, instead of spiraling out of control, they're like oh, okay, I have some tools to get through this as best as I possibly can, because life isn't about let's be happy 100% of the time. We're going to have challenges and it's really just about okay, do I have the tools to be able to get through this as smoothly as possible? And that's really what I'm teaching people to do is how to be their most authentic self, how to find what works for them and develop their own, what I call their self-care routine, because we got to take care of ourselves. We are the most important people in our lives and if we are not healthy and well the people who we are caring for we're doing a disservice to them and ourselves as well. So, yeah, and if someone does want to work with me, they can reach out to me via my website, which is my name, drkneelsiegelcom. I'm also on Instagram at the Lotus Pelvic PT and I have a podcast Beyond the Pelvis, and I think that's where I am everywhere.

Speaker 2: 33:58

I like it. Well, I will put all the links in the description below so people can easily access them. But again, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate it and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom with everyone.

Speaker 1: 34:15

Thank you, I appreciate being with you.

Speaker 2: 34:18

Yes, and thank you everyone for listening and I will talk to you next week. Thanks for listening. If you want to book in a session with one of our therapists, you can go to our website at painpsychotherapyca. You can also follow us on Instagram at painpsychotherapy, where me and Anne are posting content daily and are there to respond to your comments. Also, check out our YouTube channel, which is named Tanner Merton, msw RSW.