Don’t Scoff at your Healing Wins. Give Yourself a Healing High Five!

Join us, Tanner Murtaugh and Anne Hampson, as we uncover the extraordinary power of recognizing and celebrating small healing wins. We address the common tendency to focus on setbacks due to a negatively slanted mindset and nervous system dysregulation. We reveal how shifting your focus to acknowledge even the smallest signs of healing can build positive momentum in your recovery journey. Discover the transformative potential of "healing high fives" as a brain retraining technique and learn why a reduction in symptoms is just one part of the bigger picture in your healing process.

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married!

In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were neuroplastic, not structural. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms.

Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make changes in your life and health!

The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/

Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, an in-depth online course that provides a step-by-step process for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com

Check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ

And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy

Disclaimer: The information provided on this podcast is for general in...

Transcript

Recognizing Healing Wins in Recovery

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi, we're the MindBodyPupil.

Speaker 2 0:03

I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Anne Hampson and this podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn neuroplastic pain and mind-body concerns. Don't scoff at your healing wits.

Speaker 1 0:32

Give yourself a healing high five.

Speaker 2 0:34

Oh, you didn't give me a high five.

Speaker 1 0:35

No Turn off.

Speaker 2 0:38

I know it's a little cheesy.

Speaker 1 0:40

I know, tanner, it's okay to be a little cheesy Tanner's a bit cheesy.

Speaker 2 0:45

I'm a bit cheesy. I like being a little cheesy, that's all right. It's an important topic we have today.

Speaker 1 0:53

Yes, cheesiness of your title aside, definitely important and, I think, one that a lot of people, at least I encounter and talk to, don't do enough of.

Speaker 2 1:05

Yeah, and so to begin, we pose a question. You know what do?

Speaker 1 1:16

you focus on more Signs you're not healing or signs you are healing. I think most people would probably say signs they're not healing.

Speaker 2 1:19

Yes, this matters why is that though?

Speaker 1 1:22

Why is that kind of typically where people focus?

Speaker 2 1:25

Well, I think there's research done to show that we're negatively slanted a lot of us, and when we have nervous system dysregulation we're just on the lookout for danger.

Speaker 1 1:36

Right, okay, so that adds to like the maybe the naturally negatively slanted.

Speaker 2 1:42

Yeah, that's how we focus and I get it Like I spent a large portion early on in life just scanning for danger. This is what my nervous system became attuned to, it's just looking out for danger. So when people are starting this healing process, they're constantly looking for signs of like. Am I doing the wrong technique? Am I not focused in the right area? Why are my symptoms not changing?

Speaker 1 2:06

Totally Like fear-based kind of worry and scanning.

Speaker 2 2:11

And there's all these healing wins and we'll define healing wins in a second but there's all these healing wins taking place but they're not even noticing them. No, or attending to them or showcasing to their brain and nervous system? No, or attending to them or showcasing to their brain and nervous system? Hey, we're healing, we're making progress. Yeah, we do the opposite. We showcase to our brain. You know my symptoms were worse today. Yes, you know, I had another pain or symptom, flare, like they constantly get caught on this. I get that. Yeah, but that's not going to help our healing actually progress.

Speaker 1 2:42

Well, and I think it's not uncommon to fall into really black and white thinking sometimes of like healing is this which is maybe like no symptoms, or go to the other end, and there's a struggle with being in the middle of noticing progress and maybe wins in the right direction.

Speaker 2 3:02

Yeah, I've heard it talked about, as you know, let's say, someone's symptoms reduce by 10% yeah. The 90% that's left now becomes 100% of their symptoms. So they don't see that. Hey, actually, you know, one-tenth of my symptoms went away. Right, they're seeing the opposite.

Speaker 1 3:21

Well, and often it is a slow build to seeing change, and so that's not uncommon to kind of slowly see little bits and bits. But often I think people get stuck on being like, well, my pain is still here, or this isn't what I'm expecting or wanting.

Speaker 2 3:37

Yes, now cheesiness aside. I do truly mean people need to give themselves healing high fives. I believe it because the more you do that, the more your healing will actually progress.

Speaker 1 3:54

Okay, so at a quicker rate. Can I just say it's not like actually a physical, like high five, I hope that people are listening right now and just like stop it themselves.

Speaker 2 4:05

Please do that for me, I beg of you people, but truly like it.

Speaker 1 4:10

It actually can make a difference in how our healing progresses well, why is it important to maybe acknowledge progress is what you mean by the high five?

Speaker 2 4:20

because I I think it motivates us to actually keep going, yeah, and it helps us understand and not be preoccupied about like we're doing the wrong thing. It helps us understand like, hey, I am doing the right thing. Yes, it's just going to take time, and I'm seeing all these signals, all these signs that I'm actually healing.

Speaker 1 4:37

Yeah, totally. And if the brain, like you said, is so used to not seeing that way, this is a bit of a brain retraining kind of technique, said is so used to not seeing that way, this is a bit of a brain retraining kind of technique.

Speaker 2 4:47

Why are you smiling at tanner? I was imagining you can see him smiling if you're listening, I was grinning at me still imagining people high-fiving themselves oh my god, okay, so let's define what we mean by healing wins. Okay, healing wins are signs your healing is progressing, and we're going to break this down in a second. Yes, but what most people think healing wins are are basically their symptoms reducing in some way. That's how people classify it.

Speaker 1 5:16

Now could that be a healing win. It definitely is a healing win, okay, but it's not the only healing win, okay, and it's not the healing win that I look for early on when I'm working with people yes, and that's a really good thing to say, because if we're expecting reduction in pain as the healing win right away, I think a lot of people are going to be really disappointed, because that's not common.

Speaker 2 5:38

Yeah and actually, like I, I truly mean this. When I'm working with someone, I don't want them to be in pain or symptoms. No, but in the first handful of sessions especially, I'm barely tracking it. Yes, I don't care so much. I'm looking for other signals that healing wins are taking place. Right, because here's what will happen with most people. They start to track their symptoms intensely. I remember doing this, so I relate to this. I was tracking them intensely. They're analyzing their symptoms constantly.

Speaker 2 6:07

Okay, so that constant hyper focus even in maybe the recovery solution, but still stuck in hyper focus. Yeah yeah. Basically there's this hyper vigilance that's taking place and, based on whether they're doing good healing work, this is really based on if their symptoms are actually reducing.

Speaker 1 6:26

Yes.

Speaker 2 6:27

So they could be doing great healing work. I'm sure many of the people listening are doing amazing healing work. Yeah, it doesn't mean your symptoms are going to respond right away. No. But if their symptoms aren't responding right away, they move on to the next technique and the next technique, even though they might have already been doing all the right things.

Speaker 1 6:47

Yeah Well, and that can really fall into that pressure of trying to get rid of it or fix it away, which is almost the opposite a little bit.

Speaker 2 6:51

Yeah, and then what you see happen and I relate to this is you get this wild rollercoaster ride of emotions. Yes, because here's the thing about our healing, and Alan Gordon, creator of pain reprocessing therapy, talks about this a lot. Healing is not linear. No, it's not like this chart where you're at the very top with the highest intensity of symptoms and, day by day, is just going to lower more and more and more.

Speaker 1 7:17

No.

Speaker 2 7:17

We think that sometimes, but it's not linear.

Speaker 1 7:20

Well, I'm right, and it's maybe for like one off person that it will happen like that, but it's very rare. And so, having this understanding that often it can be a slow process, this acceptance that is not always linear and also that that's right. Healing wins can look in all different shapes and forms and it doesn't mean other wins won't come down the road, yeah, but acknowledging the process along the way.

Speaker 2 7:44

Yeah, you think about it. I always explain it to clients like this. It's kind of like one of those. You know, if you watch a stock on a stock market chart, it's all over the place, it's volatile. Yes, you know, if you watch your money day by day, you're going to go. It's just gonna be too much because it's gonna be up and down, and up and down and right over time. We want our money to grow and improve sounds overwhelming, even like listening, totally describe that I've done this with our money, so, like you, know,

Speaker 2 8:17

I took. I took the banking app off my phone. Oh yes, hypervigilant, not just around symptoms, am I hypervigilant? So, but it's important to know that, like, some days you're going to be behind, some days you're going to be ahead. Yeah, it's not going to be linear, yeah, and so that's why this is not the only healing wind that we're looking for. And so you know, because of if people are tracking and analyzing their symptoms intensely, they're going to cause a lot of nervous system dysregulation to take place, yeah, and over time, that's actually going to worsen your symptoms.

Speaker 1 8:53

Well, and that comes with that kind of idea too, that if you're always watching in this intense way, often the brain will just keep generating symptoms, because your mind is always with the symptoms, thinking about them, and it becomes your world and so this leads us to what should we be basing? Our healing on and we wrote down some what deserves a high five. I joined you. I like it.

Speaker 2 9:22

I felt like a warm hearted.

Speaker 1 9:23

I know I want you, I like it. I like it. I felt like a warm hearted.

Speaker 2 9:25

I'm not doing it. I know, yeah, I know I want you to, but it's, I feel a little hurt, but it's okay.

Speaker 1 9:31

I often reject some of Tanner's ideas like this because I just they're just too much yeah. They're too cheesy for me.

Speaker 2 9:42

Really divulging deep secrets about our relationship.

Speaker 1 9:45

I think people can get that just by you know listening to us.

Speaker 2 9:48

Yeah, they know that, yeah sometimes when uh man's stressed, I'll get her to like, try and like, shake or sway with me and look it's.

Speaker 2 9:59

I am totally for movement in terms of releasing emotion, but when tanner's like come sway with me, it like loses its purpose with me, because I'm just like oh, go away I'm doing it, you like it's not I'm doing it pretty good about with our clients and it's funny because you get peer pressured, because then our kids will start to do it with me yeah and then it's like that's not an enjoyable exercise for me Our son's like yelling at, like it's just like.

Speaker 1 10:27

So he like starts screaming at me, and then I'm in complete dysregulation and I need to like.

Speaker 2 10:33

I know.

Speaker 1 10:33

Go hide. I know yeah.

Speaker 2 10:36

I know that. That's how it plays out.

Speaker 1 10:38

I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 10:39

But it's just so funny, it's horrible.

Speaker 1 10:42

You know, Anyways, you've gone on this tangent. I don't even know where we are. Dottled, dottled again we're back.

Speaker 2 10:48

Okay, so what should we be basing our healing on? We wrote down some examples, yes, because people are probably wondering you know what deserves a high five, okay, yeah, so you know, the first one is A healing win can be that you're starting to spend less time in your head and you're spending more time in your body, or more time kind of out in your life living.

Speaker 1 11:11

Yeah, and I really like this because I think by the time people start connecting with us, they're spending a lot of time in their heads and they don't know how to get out of that hyper focus, and it's a really hard place to be, and so that's a huge win noticing, even if it's just a little bit, that you're spending less time there and more time on your body. That's something to be really like aware of and lean into a bit.

Speaker 2 11:36

It's important because we can't heal by just staying in our head. No, it's not possible. I've never seen someone do it, and so this is a really important thing that I track early on with people and deserves a high five. I won't do this for everyone, I promise, okay, okay. Second one Approaching life and movement Again.

Speaker 1 12:00

I want to say, though approaching life and movement regardless of pain yeah, If pain is there or not, it's gonna be there as you widen your world.

Speaker 2 12:10

yeah, I'm sorry to break this to everyone listening, but as you start to do new movements and as you start to approach life, things that you've avoided and feared for a long time, yeah, there's gonna be some pain initially yes, over time, though, and if it's intense, of course some strategic avoidance is okay, but I've never seen someone increase their activity and not have setbacks along the way. Yeah, it's going to come with the territory, and that's kind of the point. We need to learn to respond differently to the symptoms when they're taking place.

Speaker 1 12:41

Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 12:42

And so this is one of the things that I look for.

Speaker 1 12:46

I'm on the lookout for constantly looks like he's about to give me a high five right now. I know you want my face or something.

Shifting Mindset for Healing

Speaker 2 12:55

It's it's vital. Sorry, I got really excited there because it's important, like approaching life is a vital step in healing well, for for you, tanner, like when you started approaching life do you have an example that comes to mind that was so key for you? Even when I started to spend more time with friends, even going out for dinner I was scared to do because of like chairs, yeah, and my back.

Speaker 1 13:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:21

And starting to do that. I remember the first few times I went out for dinner. There was pain.

Speaker 1 13:26

Yes.

Speaker 2 13:27

But it was widening my world. I was starting to get over the fear that I needed to live such this small kind of isolated life. Yeah, and it actually. As my world widened, I became more regulated. Yeah, not initially, but I did become more regulated over time. I felt more socially engaged with others and then, as a result, over time, pain definitely started to decrease, even just because of that.

Speaker 1 13:49

That initial pain. So how did you approach that and not kind of let that?

Speaker 2 13:56

Yeah, and you know we've talked about condition responses recently. That's what we're talking about here and you know I knew, I knew it was a condition response. I had so much evidence. I was very fortunate that I was bought in. I was, like you know, sitting on this bench at I'm trying to think of a restaurant, but any restaurant like it's not. It's not damaging my body.

Speaker 1 14:20

Okay, so you believed that at that point, yeah.

Speaker 2 14:23

And I knew by approaching that was going to be healing, and so I did it consistently.

Speaker 1 14:28

Okay, and the win there was not really about your pain or lack of pain, it was about your response. It was about you kind of still being in the world with this new idea about your symptoms.

Speaker 2 14:40

So widening your world, and it could be small things, small baby steps. When I first started walking again we're talking two to five minutes at a time that was a really vital healing win. If someone else saw that and knew nothing about chronic pain or symptoms, they'd probably be like that's nothing, but that was huge because that process started me in my ability to use my body more fully and it was a more important step I took early on than having some big pain reduction Right. Okay, where are we? Number three Moments you've shifted back to a state of safety and connection.

Speaker 1 15:23

And that can be moments, literally moments, yeah, moments.

Speaker 2 15:25

You're looking, we talk about ventral vagal, the ventral vagal system, safety, connection, ease, lightness, playfulness, be a little excitement or purposefulness in there, moments of that. You know when I'm talking with people. If someone's been in fight or flight for the last 10 years, we're looking for moments.

Speaker 2 15:47

We're not looking for. Hey, I had a whole day where I just felt safe, I felt connected, I felt socially engaged. That'd be a huge win, but at first we're just looking for moments where you're able to get there using some of these skills, because we need our nervous system to move to a rest and digest state for us to actually heal, and so all those little moments early on, those are key healing lens.

Speaker 1 16:13

Yeah, totally, and it shows that's right. It shows that that can happen. And often I think we can get stuck in being like, well, it was only a little bit here and then I had so much pain or so much dysregulation. But we need to really kind of savor those moments. Yeah, and then I had so much pain or so much dysregulation, but we need to really kind of savor those moments.

Speaker 2 16:28

Yeah, you know. The next one that I talk about is more ability to approach emotions and dysregulation.

Speaker 1 16:35

And maybe more interest in approaching emotions as well.

Speaker 2 16:40

Yeah, A willingness you know because no one wants to.

Speaker 1 16:44

No.

Speaker 2 16:45

I get it, you know, because no one wants to, but when we understand the connection between emotions and pain, which we've talked about.

Speaker 1 16:51

two part series we recently had.

Speaker 2 16:53

if you haven't listened to it, go check it out, but there's, there's an openness to it and there's an ability to handle sitting with it.

Speaker 1 17:02

Yes.

Speaker 2 17:02

Because for myself, I I get a little bit anxious or a little bit fearful and it'd just be so much for me to tolerate, right, but some of those early wins I had was I could sit with my anxiety a little bit longer yeah I could actually approach and feel and express anger a little bit better than I used to be able to okay, and acknowledging that then is important, that there is shift there, there is growth there. Yeah, I like this next one, less spiraling or Googling about your symptoms.

Speaker 1 17:35

Can I add something there? It's kind of the same as Googling, but maybe less like online chatting about your symptoms with chat groups yeah, the chat groups yes. Not that they're bad, so none of this is bad or wrong, but sometimes it can add to the fixation. Yeah, it can escalate it can escalate.

Speaker 2 17:54

Um, I've been there. I remember, when I was healing I very briefly, because I knew it was just a really toxic just a few of these kind of like facebook groups and things. They were just like fibromyalgia Facebook groups.

Speaker 1 18:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:09

Chronic pain, like chronic back pain. There was a guys with chronic back pain, one I was literally on for one day, and it was like so incredibly, like disheartening. There were just, yeah, there was guys. I remember seeing one guy write a comment being like you know, when you have back pain as a man, you're half of a man, or like just awful things. And so we want to be really careful online. You know, even with my YouTube channel, I monitor it so carefully because I want it to be a safe space.

Speaker 2 18:45

So, any negative comments blocked. Yeah, like instantly, because, like I want this to be a community and our upcoming, you know course, we started a new agency that we are announcing now, I guess, called Embody Community. Yeah, and community is in the name, because we want to build like a safe space, a community where people can actually heal in.

Speaker 1 19:08

Well, and it's something that's interesting to say there, we want a bit. So these online communities, again, can be really good, but it's about what is it? Is it helping you or is it kind of hindering progress? And it's something to really think about and look at and same with us, like, we want to build an online community, but also, even if these communities are healthy, are we spending all our time there? Is there a balance? And that's something to really think about too, in terms of like, okay, is it a part of my life or is it all of my life?

Speaker 2 19:43

Because, again, think that hyper-focus fixation yeah, it's like a weird one where you of course you want to pick communities where you feel supported. You feel like it's. I definitely recommend the mind body one.

Speaker 1 19:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:53

There's lots of great ones out there, yeah, but yeah, like it's, it's important to not be on it too often. Like the one that was around and I think it's still around was called TMS Wiki.

Speaker 1 20:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:05

And they had success stories, right. And so when I was first healing, like there was no curable, there was no platforms, there was no big YouTube channels at the time, like this was almost a decade ago but TMS Wiki was around, and so every day I just go on and I read two success stories. Yeah, that was it. I didn't spend all my time there. I did. I think at the the time maybe Alan Gordon had like a little course on there and I did some of that, but it was like I really reined it in well and I remember that for you, tana, like that was a big thing for you and and so it gave you a lot of understandings and support.

Speaker 1 20:42

I think the shift with um kind of that point of like not spiraling or Googling your symptoms anymore, is not relying on these things out of fear.

Speaker 2 20:53

Yes.

Speaker 1 20:54

That's what you want to watch for.

Speaker 2 20:55

Yeah, and instead you're using other techniques or strategies that are actually going to better your chances of healing. Yeah, like me stopping Googling things was a huge healing win.

Speaker 1 21:07

Was it hard at first.

Speaker 2 21:08

Oh, it was so hard. I had the urge every new sensation that would come up. Yeah, even after I knew about a mind-body approach. It's like I wanted to Google it.

Speaker 1 21:15

Right.

Speaker 2 21:16

And you Google like you know, shocking sensation. I feel up and down my leg, yes, and you get some scary results Totally. And you got to think the people that are often sharing in these platforms or on Google or whatever, are the people that have like just horrific results and haven't found solutions.

Speaker 1 21:36

Like that's who goes on and shares, so you want to be really careful about that Right, the information.

Speaker 2 21:40

It's rare people are going on and sharing their small healing lens. That's interesting and we need to because you know, I think community of healing is important. So this kind of leads to one of the next ones of less fearing and focusing on symptoms. This is something we focus on early on with brain retraining.

Speaker 1 22:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:02

Because that's going to come first, typically before the symptoms start to reduce.

Speaker 1 22:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:08

And so has the emotional response changed with your pain or your symptoms. That's key. That needs to shift, and as that shifts, the symptoms will typically follow.

Speaker 1 22:19

Yeah, totally, and even if it shifts for a little bit, even if it's like rewarding that try. So sometimes we try but it's super hard. But rewarding, at least trying to make that shift, is important too.

Speaker 2 22:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1 22:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:35

And the last one shifting time and attention to important values in your life. I think this is a real, real sign of healing that I'll see, because it means that the preoccupation around your body, around your symptoms, is starting to shift.

Speaker 1 22:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:53

And you're actually starting to open up to what are you passionate about. What do you value in life? What? What do you want to go out and do?

Speaker 1 23:02

I think like sorry to cut you off there. I was just thinking like a lot of people are probably listening to that and like wanting that yeah wanting to kind of have shift of values but like just fear they can't get there.

Speaker 2 23:13

Yeah, and you need to foster this a bit. I did a little bit of values work when I was first healing, like writing down, like what do I value, what's important to me, and you know I did a little bit of work there, but I also spent time like figuring out okay, what am I passionate about?

Speaker 2 23:32

Yeah, and I had to figure it out you know right now like we run well two companies and I'm very passionate. But that's not where it started. No, when I was first healing in the first year that I was out of pain um, a little bit of flares here and there, but there was no more chronic pain. I remember remember me and my friend at work we decided to write a children's book. Our son was about to be born and it was a weird time in my life but I had a lot of fun, like I did the art. She wrote it. We never published it. I went to my master's shortly after. We still have some of the pictures in our basement actually.

Speaker 2 24:10

But it gave me something. I was excited about something yeah. I was motivated to do something and the focus shifts like there was a focus now at points I got a little too preoccupied with it oh yeah but yes, it was. I was also learning. How can I be passionate about something without becoming dysregulated?

Speaker 1 24:31

yeah, well, and I, and I think, even if that seems really far off, just letting yourself kind of maybe daydream a little bit about it, think a little bit about it and just allow a little bit of hope, to be passionate about something that's not pain and symptoms, yeah.

Speaker 2 24:48

So all of these things we've discussed, these are healing wins. We want people to really understand that. And again, don't just go off your symptoms reducing as a sign of progress. So we have a little activity we want people to do. If you're still listening, we hope you are Little reflection. Spend 10 minutes and write down what your healing wins are.

Speaker 1 25:15

Okay.

Speaker 2 25:16

And actually write them down Point form. Just write them down. What are your healing wins over the past day? Yes, Because we want to get really good at being on the lookout for them.

Speaker 1 25:28

Totally and that's the brain we're training. So you're teaching the brain to be looking, to be acknowledging. That's much different than being like critical or frustrated or that typical loop.

Speaker 2 25:37

Yeah, and this shows your brain and nervous system. Hey, I am in fact healing. We're moving in the right direction.

Speaker 1 25:43

Yeah, and that gives a little bit of acceptance for, okay, pain might not be exactly shifting where I want it to be, but I'm noticing that. So it's a really different relationship with the body.

Speaker 2 25:53

Yeah, and if you want, it's optional. Oh, I see. You could give yourself a healing high five.

Speaker 1 26:01

So I like it. How would for people watching this on YouTube? How would that work? You know what you do.

Speaker 2 26:08

I'll play it out. You know you sit down with your journal or your phone. Write down for 10 minutes your healing wins, Right, Write them down.

Speaker 1 26:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:18

And at the end you just give yourself a. I like it. I think it's important.

Speaker 1 26:25

Are you going to do that later today?

Speaker 2 26:27

Am I going?

Speaker 1 26:27

to observe you doing this at some point this evening.

Speaker 2 26:29

I think so, just when you're sitting by yourself. I think this is a good idea. I Are you doing this at some point this evening? I think so, just when you're sitting by yourself. I think this is a good idea.

Speaker 1 26:37

I think, if I did this every day, I'd probably feel a little bit happier yeah. I'm into it Okay.

Speaker 2 26:39

And every once in a while, maybe you could give me a high five, no, okay.

Speaker 1 26:43

The healing high five just is optional. It's optional. If you're not into it, I relate, but you know so many listeners did it maybe, and if you did, that's super okay and yeah, you should. No, you need to be proud of these people. This is an exciting thing.

Speaker 2 27:01

I'm just not into that okay, we gotta end this thing, okay. Well, thank you everyone for listening. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 1 27:08

Talk to you next week. Talk to you next week. Thanks for listening. If you want to book in a session with one of our therapists, you can go to our website at painpsychotherapyca.

Speaker 2 27:22

You can also follow us on Instagram at painpsychotherapy, where me and Anne are posting content daily and are there to respond to your comments. Also, check out our YouTube channel, which is named Tanner Merton, msw RSW.