The Mind-Body Couple

Reintegrating into the Workplace: Overcoming Chronic Pain and Symptoms Through Mind-Body Strategies

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson • Episode 82

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In this episode of the MindBodyCouple podcast, Tanner reveals how chronic pain and mental health struggles led him away from work and into a cycle of avoidance that only deepened his challenges. Discover Tanner's personal story of healing through a mind-body approach, a method that helped him gradually and safely reintegrate into the workplace. We discuss why it's crucial to solidify recovery before making the leap back to work, offering insights into strategies that can turn this challenging transition into a positive experience.

We also explore overcoming work fears and the challenges of navigating toxic work environments. By using methods like graded exposure Tanner and Anne share practical tips for reintroducing work-related tasks slowly and with compassion. The significance of community engagement, socialization, and adopting a positive attitude is underscored, alongside how small victories can foster a sense of safety and positivity. This episode is packed with actionable advice for transforming the workplace into a supportive environment by leaning into passions and values, which can be a game changer for those managing neuroplastic pain. Join us as we navigate these complexities and aim to inspire a more manageable return to work life.

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married! In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were occurring due to learned brain pathways and nervous system dysregulation. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make gradual changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, which is an in-depth online course that provides step-by-step guidance for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Also check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Discl...

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the MindBodyCouple podcast.

Speaker 2:

I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Anne Hampson. This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms. If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at at embodycommunitycom to access in-depth education, somatic practices, recovery tools and an interactive community focused on healing Links in the description of each episode.

Speaker 1:

Hi everybody Welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Hi everyone.

Speaker 1:

We have a pretty good topic today that I don't think we've done before, Right Tanner.

Speaker 2:

No, we have not covered this, and in our work with clients, we do a lot of this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like it's a really important one. So I'm excited about our podcast today. I think we really need to address it, so we're just going to dive into it.

Speaker 2:

So the topic today how can I successfully return to work after having debilitating, chronic pain or symptoms?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and we know not everyone maybe relates to the return to work situation, but this can also be applied to return to many different types of things.

Speaker 2:

Yes, because when we have debilitating, chronic pain and symptoms which most people listening that's why you're listening we're forced to make our world small in a lot of ways. People stop doing hobbies, they stop seeing friends and essentially, they also leave their careers potentially, or go on long-term disability, also leave their careers potentially, or go on long-term disability. And I think this is really tough stuff for myself. I wasn't off work when I had chronic pain for very long, but I was, and I think I was off work for four or five months close to the end of my journey, five months close to the end of my journey and when I think back, that was probably some of the darker times in my life, without a doubt.

Speaker 1:

As we dive in a little bit to that experience, tanner, can you talk a little bit about, like, what led to you becoming off work and then kind of what led to you wanting to go back to work?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so my mental health-wise I deteriorated a lot because of my chronic pain.

Speaker 1:

Right, which is also very common, and we really want to validate and emphasize anyone struggling with their mental health due to their pain and symptoms.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I was chronically at first when I had pain, this kind of fight or flight, state high fight or fight like angry anxious panicky. And eventually it, just like my system, just shut down, like I froze and shut down, like it was too overwhelming. Nothing was getting better and I went into deep despair, hopeless, helpless and at this time period, my back pain and hip pain, like I had widespread pain, but my back and hip pain was so bad that like even walking around at work was way too much.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It was just way too intense, like every step was incredibly painful.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think for you, at this time, you couldn't even imagining doing something like work or going to a workplace as a possibility for you.

Speaker 2:

No, it just wasn't realistic anymore, so I went off work. The problem is, when I went off work, it was. It was an avoidance strategy. For better or worse, like I was, I just couldn't tolerate it anymore, and for a lot of people before they come to a brain and nervous system approach that our whole channel is about. If you're new to this, you know we do feel very hopeless and helpless, and so I went off work and, to be honest, I sunk further.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. It didn't make anything better, unfortunately and one thing we want to say here. That's not everyone's story or everyone's experience of going off work, um, but we know for you, tanner, it was that it just made things kind of more difficult for you yes.

Speaker 2:

Now, luckily, I came to a mind-body approach and I successfully returned to work.

Speaker 1:

And so when you were off work you came to the mind-body approach. What made you one realize, or start to kind of believe you can go back to work and then realize maybe that would be helpful for you in the long run.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so in hindsight I hope everyone learns from my experience. I was pretty panicked about being off work, so I probably forced myself back to work a little too intensely and a little too quickly. I was really starting to come to some of these ideas that my pain was due to my brain and nervous system, but I I had like progressed to my healing a little bit more okay, so taking some time to kind of solidify healing might be important yeah, and so I didn't, and I didn't have a gradual return because I was going back to a new job okay and so it was.

Speaker 2:

Like you know, we talk and we're going to talk about graded exposure to work. Mine wasn't graded and I wish it had been in hindsight, but it was really hard returning to work. I remember the first week I don't know if you recall this. I would come home and just break down, like every day.

Speaker 1:

Like break down and crying. Yeah, I would come home and just break down like every day, like break down crying.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, break down crying. Pain was still really high. Essentially, there was a pushing through Now starting to progress forward in a mind-body approach. I started to utilize these things already back at work and it was effective, but for myself I didn't have a great, great exposure option returning to work, so it did make it really intense. Um, and we don't want that if we can avoid it.

Speaker 1:

So in some ways, you did the wrong way to return to work, and we have this podcast episode today to talk about maybe the right way or better way to return better way. One thing I'm wondering even though you weren't we're trying to work and it was like super intense for you what made you feel like you can do it despite the pain, because you were still having pain and maybe some of these skills were helping you though before or what? What was going on?

Speaker 2:

yeah, like I think there was. I had enough hope in this approach working. Okay, it hadn't started working yet, like my pain was still very high it was the same then, but there was a shifting mentally for myself that I knew this was probably the answer, and so, even though it was really intense pain, I had something new to do. Ah yeah, and that was very helpful.

Speaker 1:

Well, and that really speaks to how important it is to work on that shift in belief or relationship, regardless of what the pain is doing, because that came first for you and allowed you to make those steps.

Speaker 2:

Now we're going to talk about three things you need to do to return to work, but one thing we want to note here toxic workplaces and that's something I hear about a lot yeah, there is not an easy solution. The reason I didn't get a graded exposure back to work is my past workplace was very toxic and I was clear that there was no way that I was going to be able to heal if I went back there.

Speaker 1:

Was part of your shift to a new job based on your healing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Like I knew like there was, just there was no fathomable way that I was going to get back there. So we all have to make hard choices Me and Anne can't make these choices for you. Sometimes we're forced to go back to a toxic workplace. I've supported people doing that. It's hard, you know. You can be successful at it poses a lot of challenges. With what we're outlining here, we're kind of making the assumption you're returning to a place that isn't toxic. That's a whole podcast in and of itself. If you're going back to a toxic workplace, Sure, but some of these things could still apply. It's just for best results. You know we're hoping that that's not the case for people.

Speaker 1:

Right, Well, and that's that idea of are we feeling safe in our external environment? And so if our workplace is toxic, then all the skills we're doing, all the work that we're doing kind of gets pushed back on by that toxic environment.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they're kind of being applied like Band-Aids Right.

Speaker 1:

And that's where that bigger, harder decision might have to come for some people.

Speaker 2:

It is, and it's not an easy choice. Yeah. But let's dive into this Three things you need to do to return to work.

Speaker 1:

Ah, I see the first one here. You have graded exposure to work. I see the first one here. You have graded exposure to work like, like you said you didn't do.

Speaker 2:

Like I didn't do. Why is that important? Especially now, learning from your experience so you know to heal neuroplastic pain and symptoms. They talk about this and most of the models out there you got to approach. You can't heal by avoiding I think I've probably said that 200 times on this podcast at this point but graded approaching For myself. I went from not working to like working and learning a new job, which was a lot. Some people are probably going to be in similar situations. You can't be successful I was but the graded exposure is key. Like we want an attitude of approaching but we want to do it slowly, gently, compassionately.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that slow, gentle compassion is what we hope to get corrective experiences or wins along the way. We want to build on those you do.

Speaker 2:

And you're doing the exposure. But the concept we talk about is the healing window. Whether you're approaching pain, your work, emotions, dysregulation, you want to be in that window of. In that window it's uncomfortable because you're approaching new things, but it's not so much that it's intolerable, right, and so you know our producer, alex. He talks about it as treat it like a phobia. I like that. It's a useful analogy.

Speaker 1:

The work phobia which is so believable, really, when you think about work. Many of us have a work phobia, work phobia, especially on Monday, but I think returning to work is a bigger work phobia than Monday phobia.

Speaker 2:

Monday phobia is a whole other thing.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, that is a thing too. But, this is like millions of Mondays.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so he uses the example with people of imagine you're afraid of clowns, but you want to join a circus.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

This is the analogy, just run with it for a second. So changing your thoughts about clowns, realizing you know what Clowns. They look kind of scary but they're good people, they're safe. That's an important step. But in order to extinguish the phobia, you need exposure while getting healing wins, like you need exposure behaviorally to clowns while starting to actually teach your nervous system. I'm safe around clowns.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So one thing I'm wondering, though it's like we're kind of joking a little bit about the phobia. We have the clown analogy, which is fun, but this can be a very difficult piece for people, and so how can we even get to the point where we bring the light and easy and try to shift that relationship with this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and so the secret here is you got to figure out your starting place for your exposure to work activities. It'd be similar to where's your starting place and getting exposure to clowns. It's probably not going to shake hands with a clown, that's probably not. It Maybe it's starting to watch a video of a clown. Well, you're in a safe space at home. It's similar to work and I've done this a lot with people where lots of people especially if you're on disability you get this. You get the option to have a graded exposure to work at this. You get the option to have a graded exposure to work. These plans aren't perfect. You know that's a whole other topic of a systemic issue, but you know where they go back. You know four hours twice a week at first and build your way up. That's great and all, but it can be all sorts of things, like I've had people drive to the parking lot at work. Yes, perfect, you're not even going in the office, you don't need to be there, you're just getting your coffee in the morning going to work.

Speaker 1:

So this is graded exposure. Before even that graded exposure work plan that gets put in place, it's the slowly building up to feeling safer.

Speaker 2:

And this leads into what positions or movements are you going to be doing at work that typically trigger your pain or symptoms? Right, that's really key for myself, like walking or sitting at a desk. This is where I wish I had a more graded exposure, because it was too much at first. I adjusted and made changes and got there. But before you're even starting the graded exposure or you're starting to think about going to work, practice the positions or the movements, essentially while doing somatic work, while doing somatic tracking.

Speaker 1:

That's really important and that's something I talk with people a lot about too, of starting to get involved in the world, make our world bigger. So when we start returning to work, we've already had exposure to things similar. So sometimes I talk with people about getting involved in the community, about just starting to socialize more, connect more. All of that is the greater exposure hopefully leading up to an easier return to work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and one thing here, because this will happen to lots of people listening you'll pick your starting place Just like the person picks with clowns. They're like my starting place is watching a five-minute video on clowns while I'm safe under my blanket at home. Great, maybe your starting place for work is I'm just going to practice typing at my desk for 10 minutes. People try it, whether it's clowns or the typing. It's too much. It's like way outside their healing window. Because sometimes what we cognitively think is a good starting place your nervous system's not going to agree with. That's okay. Not all hope is lost. Cut it in half.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Back it up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we've talked a lot about starting smaller than you might think and then continuing to move forward, and that's okay.

Speaker 2:

But what you're doing here is you're teaching your brain and nervous system that you can widen your world and you can do this, and you can do this and be symptom-free. That's it the avoidance has taught our nervous system. Oh, all this stuff is scary and you know, my body is flawed in some way and that's why I'm avoiding it. Right Now we're trying to reverse that cycle.

Speaker 1:

Well, and a big conversation I sometimes have with people is that, and not for everybody, but for a lot of people. They do end up doing the return to work and actually they realize it was a lot better or easier or more enjoyable than they thought and it's that kind of being back into the world is almost what they needed for their pain and symptoms.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I can't tell you the number of people that have done this process. Why didn't their world return to work? And their symptoms? Of course, it's going to be bumpy at first. Yes, don't panic if you're back at work your first week and it's bumpy.

Speaker 1:

Like you, have Tanner's experience of coming home in tears.

Speaker 2:

Mine was really bumpy. Yes, I don't wish that upon people, but it is going to be bumpy because you're doing exposure and your brain's trying to figure things out. But I can't tell you the number of people that after they've got through that bumpy period, their symptoms got cut in half.

Speaker 1:

Yes, because sometimes when we're at home and we feel like we can't do anything and we feel trapped by our symptoms or we're in despair, like Tanner mentioned, that keeps kind of that rumination cycle going. There's not enough to keep us busy or it's too hard to redirect and that can often perpetuate symptoms.

Speaker 2:

Yes, Now the graded exposure is not enough. We have two more things that we want to cover here yes.

Speaker 2:

So number two, the attitude we approach work with matters. This is very similar to the attitude I talk about people's healing journey in general. Like, the attitude matters. It's not just what we do, it's not just the graded exposure, it's the attitude we hold with it and we want to do this. Again, I know this is difficult for people. We're just touching on the highlights of what you're going for here. The first one which they talk about in pain reprocessing therapy, lots light and easy. When you return to work, we want to lower the intensity. We want to lower the pressure as much as we can as we're shifting back.

Speaker 1:

Well, and then I think one thing about that, like graded exposure to work that maybe is sometimes set up with the workplace, is hoping to create a bit more light and easy of less workload, less pressure, pressure if people choose that option, but a lot of people feel their coping mechanisms of pressure and intensity and self-criticism kick up.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and so it's not just the greater exposure.

Speaker 1:

You got to watch like what's my attitude I'm approaching with uh, so if is the perfectionist coming out to play like day one of the return to work, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Second is focus on cultivating safety at work. Yes, this sounds obvious, but it's sometimes missed Like you want and this is where it's really hard if the workplace is toxic but you want to try and cultivate feelings of safety in your workplace, what is it Like? Is it making sure you're getting up and getting a tea or coffee every hour, or you know? Is it having like fun conversations with co-workers when you should be working? Like you want to cultivate as much safety as possible as you do this?

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think back then to practicing the graded exposure. Really practicing safety signals before you return to work is important because you can bring those in when you are working to your workday.

Speaker 2:

Yes, the other thing is you want to face your fears but also soothe.

Speaker 1:

So compassion.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like you know, I had a prof in university talked about this lots when he would explain models he was like it's the push but cuddle. He didn't mean both. He was like you got to push but then you got to cuddle and I was like that's great, but that's essentially what we're doing. It's like you're facing your fears, you're widening your world, but don't forget to cuddle yourself.

Speaker 1:

And reward, and so acknowledging those wins of like okay, I did this today, I got up today For someone the win might be, I got in my car and drove across town today, right, so acknowledging those shifts and those changes.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. Next is slow it down. Like we said, people with neuroplastic pain we can be an intense bunch, Tanner.

Speaker 1:

Myself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely in that group Still struggles. Still struggles, but slowing it down as much as I can. When you start back at work, it's just slowing it down. Walk slow, talk slow. Do your work slow as much as you can.

Speaker 1:

This is again something to practice, maybe before as well.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm, when you're typing and you're practicing at your desk slow typing Maybe not that slow, maybe not that slow, but don't get fired, don't type that slow.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know, just view your symptoms as meaningful messages. Yeah, when symptoms come up and you're approaching new things, you're approaching your fears, you're getting back in the workplace, like. View them as messages, like really walk it back sometimes and be like, okay, why did my pain shoot up today when I was at work? What's telling me this? And some of it makes sense. There's going to be bumpiness, yes, but you also want to figure out how to work, how to work in this way that works with your symptoms. How to work, how to work in this way that works with your symptoms.

Speaker 2:

Next, lean into passions and values. Why?

Speaker 1:

is that important?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think what we're trying to prevent is people working in this fight or flight zone. You can be mobilized, you can have that sympathetic, mobilized energy without the fight or flight, and one of the ways you do that is you focus on the areas of work that you're passionate about. You focus on, you know, being value driven. What are the values that you want to work with, that you want to work towards. This can help make the workplace more enjoyable and, ultimately, a safer place.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and we know that's not always possible, depending on where you work, what you're doing, but we can maybe lean into those parts that bring out our passion a bit more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're all going to have paperwork at work that we despise.

Speaker 1:

Thank Tanner.

Speaker 2:

Like me. Yeah, here's the things I like about work. I like meeting with clients. I like doing the podcast with you, oh good I like doing videos.

Speaker 1:

That would be really upsetting. If you despise this part, You're like this is the part that I'm not passionate about.

Speaker 2:

One thing I hate at work is every month I have to do billing for a clinic. I was just doing it before this. It's terrible. I'll never be passionate about that, oh no. But I do slow it down, I break it up into chunks. I'm not doing it for two hours and just hating my life. So like there's things I'm passionate about, but there's obviously going to be things at work that you're never going to be passionate about, and that's okay. And last, we just have hope, like if we want to give this message that we've helped many people return to work yes this is a possibility.

Speaker 2:

I've experienced it, other people have experienced it, and you can get there utilizing all the content we've talked about on this podcast and by following kind of this step by step totally, and I think it is knowing that when you do return, symptoms and nervous system dysregulation are going to occur.

Speaker 1:

That's just reality. I don't think I've ever seen anyone return to work where it's like no symptoms came up at all, and so it's knowing that that's going to happen, but we want to remember and have hope that it's temporary, yes, or it starts to fluctuate downwards.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's so much be a fourth point on this list being like expect the bumpiness.

Speaker 1:

Yes, expect and embrace the bumpiness.

Speaker 2:

So number three, we've made it through our list. Here we are. We need to feel emotions and regulate the nervous system, yes, so yes, the greater exposure is key. Yes, the right healing attitude, the right attitude approaching work is great, but I think we need to allow ourselves to feel the difficult emotions of returning to work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so practicing kind of creating safety with your emotions before returning to work is also important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sometimes an activity I have people do, within the healing window, of course, is starting to visualize the workplace. Yeah, for graded exposure purposes, but for also exposure to like the emotions that it evokes.

Speaker 1:

Like anxiety yeah.

Speaker 2:

I didn't do this. Right, and then I felt great terror and despair and sadness. Yeah, and in hindsight, if I had spent a month, month and a half, like consistently doing some of this emotional work, approaching it, processing it somatically. I have lots of practices on my YouTube channel people can check out If people need extra support. We also have our digital course, but that's really key. The other thing to keep in mind is you're probably going to need more nervous system regulation practices during the bumpiness as you approach.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so sometimes it's like treated almost like a little pain flare. What do you do when you have a pain flare? You really lean on those regulation practices. You go to your safety signals. You comfort and soothe. We want all of that. On the return to work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that that is just needed, like when we face more stressful situations, new situations. We need more of these practices to feel regulated. Yeah, and so expect difficult emotions when you return that's part of the bumpiness yes, and expect you're going to need more regulation practices.

Speaker 1:

For you, tanner. When did you feel like you were out of the bumpiness? What was that like for you?

Speaker 2:

Well, it's been many years, but the first month was pretty rough. I think if I had had at least a more graded approach or had been farther in my mind-body healing, it would have definitely gone better. But the first month was really rough for me. After that I really started to. Things started to click in using this approach and it improved pretty quickly after that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so that's good to know that, like, sometimes it's about giving it time using this approach. Sometimes also it's about that exposure of just getting used to getting up every day that becomes a bit more normalized. Going to work every day becomes a bit more normalized. So the consistency of this like that's exposure too right Of just doing it.

Speaker 2:

It is yeah, so this is our return to work toolkit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, totally. We hope that it's helpful and if anyone's listening and they're thinking of returning to work and they have some time, then that's great. Practice it as we describe it, and if you're about to return to work tomorrow, you can still utilize these things. So thank you everyone for listening, thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next week. Talk to you next week. Talk to you next week. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, instagram and Facebook accounts in the episode description.

Speaker 2:

We wish you all healing.