The Mind-Body Couple

Juggling Parenthood and Healing: Navigating Chronic Pain with Balance and Self-Care

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson • Episode 98

Share episode

Parenting and chronic pain/illness—two life challenges that seem impossible to juggle, right? Join us, Tanner Murtaugh and Anne Hampson, as we unravel the intertwined complexities of nurturing our children while healing from neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Reflect on Tanner's journey from pre-parenthood healing to the new stressors and joys children bring into the mix. For those without kids, we encourage you to consider your own unique stressors and their impact on your healing process. Through our personal stories, you’ll gain insights into managing these challenges, whether you're still on the path to recovery or have already found your way back to health.

Maintaining your well-being doesn't stop at recovery—it requires ongoing effort, especially when parenting. We share practical strategies to sustain your healing, emphasizing the importance of creating a buffer against life's endless demands. From emotional processing to regulating your nervous system, we highlight how prioritizing self-care and social connections can help you keep a balanced life amidst the chaos of work, family, and societal pressures. Rediscover your personal interests and reclaim your identity with activities like yoga, qigong, or even equine therapy, all while navigating the expectations placed on you as a parent. Let's redefine self-care and make it a priority, not a luxury.

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married! In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were occurring due to learned brain pathways and nervous system dysregulation. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make gradual changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, which is an in-depth online course that provides step-by-step guidance for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Also check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Discl...

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the MindBodyCouple podcast.

Speaker 2:

I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Anne Hampson. This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms. If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at painpsychotherapyca or purchase our online course at embodycommunitycom to access in-depth education, somatic practices, recovery tools and an interactive community focused on healing. Links in the description of each episode Hi everyone, hi, everybody welcome back. Welcome back. We have a very needed topic today.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and one that's kind of been requested by some of you guys listening. So we thought it was important that we start with this topic today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're going to talk about parenting well, healing chronic pain and illness.

Speaker 1:

And we also want to note, though, that even if you don't have kids, you'll probably and hopefully, get something from this podcast, because demands and stressors in life always influence pain and symptoms, and this is an example of like demands and stressors.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so if you don't have kids, just think about what aspects of work, social life or other responsibilities are influencing your pain and symptoms.

Speaker 1:

But for the people that do have kids, well, we wrote this one for you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and about us, if you're new to the podcast. Personally, I recovered from chronic pain and we know my pain was neuroplastic in nature, which means that my body wasn't damaged. There was no disease, which was. What was actually taking place is just, I was in a chronic state of danger and when I was healing we didn't have kids.

Speaker 1:

This was like your initial healing.

Speaker 2:

Yes, we didn't have kids. Yeah, that was 10 years ago. I've had some flares while having kids, though, and when we talk about neuroplastic pain and symptoms, it's when we're stuck in a state of danger in our brain and nervous system, and this really ties in with parenting. We have this image of parenting like before you have kids. I think I had this too. You have this image of parenting. You know, I'll be hanging out with my kids, we'll be relaxing, we'll be playing, we'll be having these good times, and all of that is true, yeah, but we also know parenting is very hard.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, but I relate to you, tanner, so I used to have this similar kind of images, like I remember when we were pregnant. Actually, we bought like a, a baby bassinet, like most people do, um, and our cats like loved it. They would hang out in there. They thought it was for them, um, but that's what I, that's all like. I would imagine of like, oh, hanging out with me having baby and the bassinet, just like the cats like having fun, um, and I didn't really know what I was getting into.

Speaker 2:

Yes, we didn't know, and me and Anne had very little exposure to having kids before we had kids.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we didn't really know much about kids. I don't even know if we liked kids before.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know we weren't kids, but now we have two kids. Yes, our daughter is almost five, coming up in a few weeks. Yes, our daughter is almost five Mm-hmm. Coming up in a few weeks Yep, and our son is seven Yep. So we have a busy household and we learned. Parenting is hard, yes, Right away. Oh, yes, but we also know parenting, while healing is hard. Yes or parenting after you've already recovered from neuroplastic pain and symptoms? Ah, yes, is also difficult.

Speaker 1:

Well, okay, so maybe let listeners know, or refresh their memories, if they already know, of where you were at in your healing journey, kind of when we had kids or maybe when we got pregnant.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so when we got pregnant with our son, I think I was healed Like when I mean my heals I really didn't have chronic pain anymore, Like it wasn't consistent.

Speaker 1:

It wasn't consistent, it wasn't daily.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I would go months without having pain, okay, like I was doing quite well, little mini flares, maybe a few times a year, and I think I was probably a year and a half, two years into healing Okay, something of that nature. And yeah, it was. It was a difficult thing. Actually, when we had our son, my life was more laid back. So I was working at a job that was pretty laid back. We didn't have a bunch of responsibility Like we didn't own a house yet. I felt in a more laid back place, yeah. So when we had our son, things were going pretty well I'm going to share later in this podcast like when we had our daughter.

Speaker 1:

it was a different story.

Speaker 2:

I was more struggling at that time, but we learned. You know parenting is difficult. You know kids can be dysregulating when they're little babies, but as they get older they have big emotions. Yes, especially our kids me and Ann tend to be the sensitive type, so our kids tend to be the very sensitive type.

Speaker 1:

Well, and like back to this point, tanner, that Well, and back to this point, tanner, that kids can be dysregulating. It can be really hard. If you maybe hadn't recovered or hadn't been at that place when you had your son, what do you think that would have been like for you?

Speaker 2:

It would have been a lot more difficult, for sure, and I feel for people that are trying to heal like well they have a child and kids alone. I've seen that trigger someone's chronic pain and symptoms initially or worsen them. Yeah, and yeah, like kids can be dysregulating. With having kids comes like pressure and responsibility that we didn't really have insight to before yeah you also have things like always feeling busy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, constant busyness. I think that was one of the hardest adjustments for me. As you know, tanner, I like some downtime in my life. I need that downtime in my life, and quickly. When we became parents, it's like that downtime wasn't there. There is always something to do. There was always busyness. There's always demands and I've found that, as a parent, to be very stressful for me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and the other thing about parenting is it can become all-consuming. Yes, you know, you start to lose aspects of yourself, your identity, your personal interests.

Speaker 1:

Well, and when we think about chronic pain or living with chronic pain, sometimes part of the healing work is reconnecting with your identity, is kind of reclaiming parts of yourself, is often for a lot of people slowing down. And so when we have these external pressures, so again if you don't have kids. And so when we have these external pressures, so again if you don't have kids, think these external demands on us, keeping us in this like busy kind of intense state of being that really is the opposite of that healing journey. That might help us.

Speaker 2:

Exactly and you also have. You know, when people are parenting and have chronic pain symptoms, often what I see and I feel for people because this is a hard thing and when I've had flares I've felt this after we had kids is there's like a pushing through, like we push through our pain and symptoms to care for our kids. We can't always respond to nervous system cues, meet our needs. Like there's difficulties there too, where you're now taking care and raising this, you know this child or children and so, like, naturally we want to push through to make sure we're good parents.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it can be like also a bit of a moral situation where it's like, well, I should push through or I should do this or I should be away, and sometimes when I've talked with people it's like, ok, let's start slowing down, let's see where we can kind of change things. That challenges that I should and I think that can also happen in other areas, like the workplace or with other family members this idea of we should be a certain way, but actually it's causing us more and more nervous system dysregulation, and this is why parenting can trigger chronic pain and illness and perpetuate it, because we can feel chronically stressed and we have an inability to meet our needs for different reasons.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and so our body starts to warn us that it's feeling in danger, that it's feeling in this state of survival Totally, and it uses chronic pain and symptoms to cue us like, hey, something doesn't feel right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

This is how our body speaks to us when it doesn't have words.

Speaker 1:

Well, I can relate to that. So, as you know, tanner, you'll see the uptake of my Tylenol taking the more stressed I get and that's because I can get I can tend to get headaches. And so the more I'm kind of stressed or busy or feel like I'm pushing my limits, I can get headaches and I am kind of start taking Tylenol daily and I very much know that's connected to that business and stress, for sure, but it is that cue of like, hey, we need to, you need to tend to yourself here. And then sometimes I'll feel like, well, I don't know how to do that because I have all these demands.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's those periods, I think, the sicknesses. We talk about it a lot on this, but like when everyone in our house starts to get sick and Tylenol intake goes up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, because it's stressful and I know in those periods and I'm sure many of you probably relate to this of like, when the household is getting sick, I have to push through.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I know you also, I give you credit here. Like you do a lot of this work as well, like you're tying in a lot of this work self-care, creating safety, and so you know we do our best and we have a wealth of knowledge between the two of us to deal with our neuroplastic symptoms. You know, when our daughter was born, it was pretty chaotic, as we've shared last episode. You know, anne had preeclampsia and so, as a result, her daughter was born very early and it was a very different experience from when our son was born.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, Like having second child when one child is already around.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's not.

Speaker 2:

And we're in the NICU. Yeah, so we're going to the hospital and it's the pandemic. And it was the pandemic. Like our daughter was born and like the day after was the first case of COVID in Alberta.

Speaker 1:

And it well, I don't know if it's the first case, but it was like when they implemented shutdown here.

Speaker 2:

No it was the first case of COVID in Alberta.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but they implemented shutdown yeah very shortly after. Wow.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was like. I was like what are the odds? And so me and Anne weren't allowed to see our daughter together. I'm working full time, so I'm going to the hospital at 4 am.

Speaker 1:

I remember we had our son in child care, but I pulled him out.

Speaker 2:

I know.

Speaker 1:

Because I was like very nervous about COVID and like what was going to happen in the child care setting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we had that going on. I was going to the NICU at 4 am hanging out with our daughter for two hours going to work. You were stressed, just listening to the story back, it was and what happens is I started to get this like hip leg pain down my right leg.

Speaker 1:

Have you ever had hip and leg pain before? Okay, it was. Was it familiar?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was the same pain that I had many years prior when I recovered, so I knew it was neuroplastic.

Speaker 1:

Okay, like it was familiar enough. It was kind of similar, because I think sometimes we can get other pains and that can really throw us. But this was like oh, my old friend is back. When was the last time you had had that kind of pain? Though?

Speaker 2:

You know that pain poked its head up once in a while, but like this time around, like it lasted for five or six weeks, right Like this, and we've shared this on our podcast before but this was my longest flare that I ever had, last, and it made sense because there was so much danger that life was throwing us. Yes, yes that. It was just like I was in chaos. I was highly anxious.

Speaker 1:

And I Could. You, I was just going to say could you have stopped that from happening With all your knowledge? Could you have stopped that with what was going on for you? I think?

Speaker 2:

to give my yeah, to give context, before that, like I just completed my master's, I wasn't doing that well and partly because I had fallen back into perfectionism. So part of this was like, okay, there was these uncontrollable factors, but there's things that I could have controlled, leading into that experience that I did not Like. I fell back into old patterns and I don't blame myself for that, like I just I fall into putting pressure on myself, being selfical. So already going into that experience, I was dysregulated and it was enough that it just pushed me over the top. And this is why I talk about with people the importance of maintaining the work after you've healed.

Speaker 1:

Ah, that's right. And so because I like that example, Tanner, because it's like this stage was already being set before all of these kind of very uncontrollable situations, I almost talk about this concept of like a buffer yeah, like you need to maintain the work to maintain the buffer?

Speaker 2:

Yes, so that when stressors are thrown at you, like we were dealing with, there's a buffer where, like, your nervous system is regulated enough that, even if it gets dysregulated, symptoms don't get triggered.

Speaker 1:

But one thing I also want to say sometimes we maintain and buffer as much as we can, but symptoms still very much get triggered, Because sometimes those stressors and those triggers are very much out of our control.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sometimes life's going to throw us things and we just do our best. And so you know I, after my life pain started, I really dove into the work. I started to create a lot of social safety breaks in my day. I think I went down to working four days a week instead of five at the time. Right, so I was making lifestyle changes, I was doing emotional work, I was regulating myself Like I did a lot of work at that time to really dive into things and it worked. Like within a few weeks of doing that, it faded off and in the coming months after that, like my anxiety reduced significantly, like it really was a wake up call. And this is the thing with parenting is we really need to maintain our healing? Everyone does. But, like when you have kids in the mix, these little dysregulated kids that are going to throw you through a loop, it's especially important.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and one thing that we've learned is we really needed to allow ourselves the space to maintain, and myself too, and so I know I mentioned those headaches, but I don't necessarily struggle with chronic pain, but I very much get very dysregulated and it comes out in other ways if I'm not taking care of myself, and so you talk about what we want to share at the end here that give a message of hope that healing, or maintaining your healing, is possible with kids.

Speaker 2:

But it needs to look different.

Speaker 1:

Well, and so when you have somebody that comes to you, tanner, that is at the beginning of their healing journey they have kids already, like they're in the midst of, you know, parenting. What kind of message do you share with them right away?

Speaker 2:

Well, the first thing that I'm working on pretty early on is building in practices to process emotions and regulate the nervous system. This can make a big difference. You know, these can be tricky to prioritize when we have kids and I've worked with people who are, you know, due to extenuating factors, like they just don't have the space.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

But I think sometimes I'll just be blunt. We need to make the space.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think and I 100% relate to this I think it can really feel like we don't have the space and we can't see where it is. But sometimes, when if we start to kind of think about it, we can carve it out. Or we can't see where it is, but sometimes, if we start to kind of think about it, we can carve it out or we can make it. Sometimes that is a compromise to something else, which is difficult, but it's important to step back. Now, if you're listening to this and you don't have kids, but maybe you're relating to your workplace or something else, it's the same idea and I think often if we have a stressful workplace actually it very much is similar to this of like there's demands on me all the time, there's no space to maybe slow down or take care of myself, but often it's finding that and making it too.

Speaker 2:

And it's prioritizing it, like it just. It needs to be a priority and I know that means maybe making some hard shifts or changes. Yes, but that's the reality. Like, if we want to get better when we have these social factors that are creating a lot of danger, such as having kids and parenting, it needs to be priority that you're working on processing your emotions and regulating your nervous system.

Speaker 1:

And that can be hard to do, especially again if our like, our mind or our moral compass is saying no, like I pit myself last, because this is a bit of shift of like. No, maybe we put ourselves first of it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the other thing that is going to make this possible is creating social safety.

Speaker 1:

So what do you mean by social safety?

Speaker 2:

So this can be either the way you're living life, like your lifestyle, or just factors in your life. So for myself, like my friends are very busy and some of them live in different places of the world, but I'm making time each week and when I was recovering from that leg pain like I was making time with friends, I remember every second Friday or so I'd go for a hot tub at my friend's house. Yeah, it was a lifestyle shift that created some safety.

Speaker 1:

And how did that impact? Maybe pain symptoms or nervous system regulation for you?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think it was huge because it gave me time and space to hang out with my friends, to be outside of our family system, yeah, and out of the chaos, yes, and we were doing this back and forth, like trying to give each other breaks to maintain things that we also wanted to do in our life, and that was a way I was creating social safety. But it's also lifestyle, like when you have kids and you're parenting. Young kids especially, like work, may need to look different.

Speaker 2:

Yeah that's it Like. I think it's easy for us to get wrapped into work wrapped into, especially in a capitalistic society. This is important. We need to achieve, we need to perform, we need to make more money and I get those pressures. I don't blame anyone for falling into those. I've fallen into them, yeah.

Speaker 1:

But I think we need to take a bird's eye view here and be like is this realistic Now, sometimes we don't have a choice, like sometimes we don't have control over our work, and we need that to make ends meet and then. But then sometimes that is making shifts outside of work to really focus on that nervous regulation.

Speaker 2:

And part of our work. Now, you know we run two companies and I want to be clear like I feel a lot of pressure about that and and there's great benefits that running my company has given me. So, like I'm not denying that I'm very privileged in lots of ways, but there's a lot of pressure of performing performing on this podcast, performing on youtube, sharing my story with the world Like that's not easy stuff to do. And then, on top of that, you know, like if I don't work I don't get paid. I need to make sure enough clients come to see us and that's hard stuff and I've had to learn to adjust and have other parts of my life that aren't so pressureful, that I enjoy. Like I make sure each day I do my yoga or my qigong, or like we have playing guitar, which is a great time.

Speaker 1:

Are you saying if you had all that pressure with work and then the pressure with family, there would be no room for almost pressure release?

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and so lifestyle needs to be shifted. And I don't want to sound hypocritical I work a lot and I really enjoy my work, but I need to do it in a certain way.

Speaker 1:

And you've learned that Because I think for a long time Tanner, I know you talk about perfectionism a lot, but for a long time you fought that in a way of like again, I must, you know, fall into the demands and fall into the stress of it, and it's taken you a lot of learning to prioritize other things, which happens to be self-care or nervous system regulation, or that time out, whether it's connected to the family or work or whatever that is.

Speaker 2:

And one thing we've mentioned that you're kind of talking about that has been vital for us and I think there can be a lot of resistance with parents I've worked with is taking breaks.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's been the biggest thing for us is breaks from the beginning and asking for those breaks and this is my experience and sometimes the experience of other mothers that I've worked with. But there's this idea of like and at least I know for mothers and again I'm saying this is our experience but that I'm speaking to but sometimes there's this belief of I'm the mom I can't take a break.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I shouldn't take a break, and I've talked with a lot of people about changing that narrative and also advocating for yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think you're right. Like it can be a bit gendered, I think mothers can feel it a lot more, but I've worked with fathers too, where they have this belief that outside of work, they need to be spending every moment of free time with their kids.

Speaker 1:

Right, Because that and that's also another kind of way of thinking of like I'm working. So now I must like monopolizeize on this time, which is also a lot of pressure it's.

Speaker 2:

It's a lot of pressure and it's not realistic for your nervous system.

Speaker 1:

Yes, like it wasn't designed to just work and then always be around your kids, like that's because, let's be honest, uh, and for some of us feeling more than others, but I feel it being around my kids is work yeah, and, and we love our kids.

Speaker 2:

Don't get us wrong here. We're not saying that, but we're just trying to make the case that, like, breaks are key.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, that's right, we can't always be working, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And me and Anne have a really good partnership around this. I think Like we're taking each other.

Speaker 1:

It's taken us time to get there, yeah.

Speaker 2:

We've had um sometimes some rocky spaces and both of us like desperately advocating for our needs, but we're both so dysregulated that we can't hear it yeah, and I totally understand that, that we are also are in a very privileged position, so sometimes you have the capacity or the the finances to do this. Yeah, but I do think taking breaks it can take a little creativity, based on your situation, of what that looks like. Yeah, like you know, I play my guitar. I don't have time to play guitar three hours a day, but I do it for 30 minutes right.

Speaker 2:

And we rent a horse for work. I want to be clear. But Casper the horse, yes, and Anne also does equine therapy. So you're in Calgary, alberta. You're putting that in there right now. Hey, A little plug for Anne.

Speaker 1:

Reach out to us if you're interested in equine therapy.

Speaker 2:

She's the horse whisperer.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, no, no.

Speaker 2:

Really I'm pumping you up. Yeah, I'm not you up, you're tearing yourself down, you're tearing yourself down.

Speaker 1:

I'm trying to pump you up here, but the reason we brought up Casper the horse is over the years that I've been, you know, working with him. Um, he's been huge for my mental health and huge for that breakout. Um, I've noticed when I'm not with him my mental health actually starts to decline and so but that's been a really big pinpoint for me of like. Actually this is part of nervous system regulation for me and I need to prioritize kind of having that time alone, away from Tanner, away from my kids, doing my own thing. And I know at the beginning we talked about interest and sometimes with parenting we can lose things that matter to us. This for me has been a big part of reclaiming interest for myself and identity.

Speaker 2:

The next thing that is going to help you heal when you have the demands of parenting is really assessing and making changes to what your home life looks like.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

What I see people do and I get it, because people love their kids, they want the best for their kids. But this is what it'll look like they go to work, they pick their kids up, they rush them to two activities a night, five days a week, like there's no downtime. And I really prioritize for people like kids need to be shown that downtime's safe, like it's okay to go home and do nothing.

Speaker 1:

Right, and nothing doesn't mean like watch TV, like we're not advocating that.

Speaker 2:

No, but like play in your room, Play with your toys. Our daughter's really into doing her art, Like I think. Sometimes in our society, we prioritize so much productivity and busyness. Yes, and this is funneled down to our children.

Speaker 1:

Well, and it's funny, because if we're actually wanting to learn to slow down, then maybe we all need to learn to slow down.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like we need to teach our kids this, and I think we can reduce the pressures of parenting by giving ourselves slowness in how our home life functions. And so, don't get us wrong, our kids go to swimming. Our son's going to do some writing and reading classes right now, so there's nights that we're out, but usually one of us is home with the other kid having some downtime, right Like there's a, there's a mixing up that's taking place on Sundays. We don't do much.

Speaker 2:

We kind of hang out, you know, sunday from like one to five. You know we might make some meals for the week, but our kids are playing and they're used to that now and I think that's really important. Like I know for myself, one thing that I just I can't tolerate is I can't tolerate having a really busy Sunday and then going to work for the rest of the week.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and sometimes that might be the compromise. So it's like, okay, I want all of this for my kid, but if I'm like pushing myself to the limit it's not going to be helpful. And our example of like nights in or out, that might not work for you and your family and you might be like, oh my god, I don't agree with that and that totally makes sense. But it is finding then what works for you, of like what keeps me regulated, um, and still kind of jives with my parenting values, and sometimes it is kind of reshuffling that a bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and for this next point, I just want to, you know, be clear. There are single parents out there and that's. We're not in that situation and I really feel for people because that's incredibly challenging, yeah, especially if people have limited support. But if you do have a partner or supports in your life, it's important to connect with them, to co-regulate and to support each other.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

This is a big problem that I see when I work with people where their partners aren't really a safe person for various reasons. They're getting a lot of signals of danger from parenting and they can feel very alone. Yes, and so like that co-regulation, our nervous systems feeding off one another, leading each other to safety yeah, and something that we I know me and Anne are both therapists, so we're always thinking about this. Years back, I remember me and Anne went to some couples counseling before marriage and the therapist was a bit blown away because they were like I don't know if I've ever met a more honest couple, like we're just so bluntly honest with each other yeah which has caused some fights over the years.

Speaker 1:

It's not always helpful, but I think there's a lot of benefit there?

Speaker 2:

yeah, because we know the other person's just being truthful and the other person's gonna tell tell us when you're maxed out.

Speaker 1:

Well, and it's interesting that you mentioned couples counseling because through my work with people, I have talked with people whether they have children or not, and they've kind of gone the route of couples counseling and it's been really helpful in terms of co-regulation and communication. And so I guess I want to put it out there that couples counseling can be super useful and if we are feeling that we can't co-regulate and support each other with kids, that's another reason why couples counseling might be an avenue to explore.

Speaker 1:

The next point we want to talk about is really two things. Yes, one, two punch. That was important. You just made that phrase up or something. That's a phrase.

Speaker 2:

I've never heard that you're not in the boxing circles no are you here am?

Speaker 1:

Okay, go ahead, I'd be a terrible boxer. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2:

Anyways, you'd lose immediately. But Wow, just have a little faith in me. I am like a really small, Like have you guys seen Tanner, I'm sure some of you have Well, I think, on my videos. I wonder because on my videos can people tell how tall I am. They know you're short.

Speaker 1:

They know you're short, maybe they don't Maybe.

Speaker 2:

in my videos they're like oh, tara's seven feet tall. No no one is thinking that Anyways go on. I'm short.

Speaker 1:

I'm 5'4" and because of that, our children are short. You're shorter than me. Yeah, because of us, our children are short.

Speaker 2:

We do have some very small kids. Our son is like so skinny. Every time we go to the doctor we're like so concerned, like that they think we're like not feeding him, but they do think we are, which is good our son, though he doesn't prioritize food no all he prioritizes is fun so, like you know, that's fair you know some kids love to eat. Son could care less. Anyways, the the next one. Two punch points radical acceptance and self-compassion.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so when we kind of talked about doing a podcast, focused on, like, parenting and chronic pain, those are the biggest things that I think are important to keep in mind.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we need to radically accept our situation. Sometimes, yes, like sometimes we can make changes, but sometimes the best we can do is radically accept it. And acceptance is an approval. Like we don't need to approve of coming home to kids with big emotions and tantrums are being thrown, toys are being, you know, like it's just a disaster, but like we don't have to approve of that. But sometimes we do just need to fully accept.

Speaker 1:

This is the situation right now that I'm in, yeah, and after we do that, we also want to bring a lot of compassion, love and care for ourselves right you know, and there's, there's lots of ways to do that, but sometimes it's just the energy we have for ourselves well and I think a important piece of mention is here is sometimes, when pain and symptoms are high, we can't do as much as we wanted to do, and that will mean maybe, um, not being exactly the parent that we want to be, but I think that's where radical exceptions and compassion need to come in yeah, yeah, and sometimes we can't show up the way we want yeah, and that's really difficult and can bring a lot of sadness to people, but you can really care for yourself.

Speaker 2:

You know, like whether you're still healing from chronic pain or symptoms or you know you already healed. You know parenting or other factors in life they can make life really difficult. Life isn't easy. We know that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And these two principles can be really effective. And the last thing we just want to mention is you know the goal here, as you're learning to heal while parenting is really learning to feel safe in your body even if your kids aren't regulated. I think that's a possibility, like we can get there. We can learn to feel safe. We can learn to feel regulated even when our kids are dysregulated.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes better than others. It's not going to be perfect, but I've learned that over the years. I've learned better ways to feel regulated when my son's angry and throwing stuff.

Speaker 1:

And one thing I want to add there. That's taken time for you, Tanner, that's taken time and it's taken practice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, out there, that's taken time for you, tanner, that's taken time and it's taken practice. Yeah, so I hope this podcast was helpful. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 1:

Talk to you next week. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, instagram and Facebook accounts in the episode description.

Speaker 2:

We wish you all healing.