The Mind-Body Couple

How to Desensitize Your Pain and Symptom Alarm System (Brain Retraining Practice Included)

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson • Episode 106

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Your body isn't damaged, but you're still feeling pain or symptoms? That's because chronic pain/symptoms often persists long after injuries heal due to a sensitized nervous system. In this illuminating episode, we unravel how your brain can misinterpret safe signals as dangerous, creating persistent pain and symptoms even when there's no structural damage.

We explore the fascinating neuroscience behind chronic pain/symptoms, explaining how different brain regions become involved when pain transitions from acute to chronic. The famous neurological principle "neurons that fire together, wire together" reveals why pain/symptom pathways strengthen over time through repetitive activation. Just as learning any skill improves with practice, your brain unfortunately becomes more efficient at producing pain/symptoms when these pathways are repeatedly activated.

The episode centers on a powerful solution: embodiment practices that help desensitize your overactive alarm system. Rather than staying trapped in fearful thoughts and rumination that fuel the pain/symptom cycle, we guide you through approaching sensations with curiosity and safety. Through deliberate nervous system regulation, slow breathing, and present-moment awareness, you can teach your brain to reappraise sensations it previously misinterpreted as threatening.

The highlight of this episode is a complete guided somatic practice where we walk you through exploring sensations with playful curiosity—like a kitten investigating a new room—rather than fear or judgment. This brain retraining exercise helps create new neural pathways that view sensations as safe rather than dangerous.

Ready to rewire your brain's pain response? Begin your healing journey by practicing embodiment consistently when symptoms are mild to moderate. For additional support, check out our digital course with over 60 somatic and brain retraining practices at mbodycommunity.com, or book a consultation with one of our therapists. Your path to freedom from chronic pain starts with understanding your nervous system and learning to create safety within.

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married! In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were occurring due to learned brain pathways and nervous system dysregulation. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make gradual changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, which is an in-depth online course that provides step-by-step guidance for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Also check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Discl...

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the MindBodyCouple podcast.

Speaker 2:

I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Anne Hampson. This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms. If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at painpsychotherapyca or purchase our online course at embodycommunitycom to access in-depth education, somatic practices, recovery tools and an interactive community focused on healing. Links in the description of each episode. Hi everyone.

Speaker 1:

Hi, everybody, welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Welcome back. We are recording this on Easter Sunday.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, happy Easter.

Speaker 2:

Happy Easter. If you celebrate Easter, yeah, me and Anne are both sick, so we apologize.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2:

We're not going to linger on that because it's just constant. But I apologize for my hoarse voice, but we did a little egg hunt this morning.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was good, and exhausting because we're also sick.

Speaker 2:

It was exhausting but, like the egg hunt, it's over in like 20 minutes.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, it's quick, it's a quick endeavor.

Speaker 2:

But our kids were up for like an hour and a half.

Speaker 1:

My son was calling me throughout the night. I don't know if you knew this, Tanner, but he was like calling out three times throughout the night at like 2 am or something. And I kept having to be like it's the middle of the night, time to keep sleeping.

Speaker 2:

So excited for the easter bunny and our daughter. Our daughter was so sweet last night because our daughter stays up like she's not a good sleeper like her son yeah so she's up until like nine at night when we go to bed, yeah, but she's like it was like six o'clock and she's like it's time for sleep. I need to sleep for the eas bunny.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is quite cute.

Speaker 2:

I wish she was that motivated every night.

Speaker 1:

No, yeah. Yeah, we have an interesting topic for you today, and our topic is desensitize your pain and symptoms alarm system.

Speaker 2:

So what we're going to do in this episode, so you know what to expect is we're going to do in this episode. So you know what to expect is we're going to get a little bit of education. I'll try to talk. Keep the talking to a minimum.

Speaker 1:

I'll keep them on track.

Speaker 2:

I do like to talk, but then at the end we're going to also have a practice.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So first thing here when we talk about our pain or symptom system, a lot of people tend to assume chronic pain and symptoms occur something like this. So let's imagine your body is damaged or in danger some way. So in this example, Anne, what I'm going to say is Anne sprained her ankle. All right, Probably chasing after your kids.

Speaker 1:

On Easter.

Speaker 2:

On Easter Gathering eggs, gathering eggs, yeah okay, sprained it, so the body is damaged. What's going to happen is nerve signals in Anne's ankle are going to send up danger messages to the brain, letting it know like hey, something's going wrong here. The brain receives these messages, interprets danger and produces pain.

Speaker 1:

All right, that would. Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 2:

So you get the idea. If you sprain your ankle or any injury, this is how we tend to assume our pain or symptom system works.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

There's accurate communication between the body and the brain. However, as we know, and we've known for a long time, for decades, that many forms of chronic pain, chronic fatigue, other chronic symptoms, it is not due to structural damage or disease in the body.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so that system you just described is not technically happening.

Speaker 2:

No, like if you sprained your ankle. Sure, that's what's going to take place, with acute pain.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But with a lot of chronic pain, chronic symptoms. What we just explained is not actually what's taking place.

Speaker 1:

And that again, would be the case with initial injury as well. That lingers on.

Speaker 2:

Yes, after the injury heals, pain develops.

Speaker 1:

I might have sprained my ankle, but if that continued on for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, then it would be a different story.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because you have to think most injuries are healing within a couple weeks to a couple months. Yeah, Our body's actually really resilient. It's amazing in that way. But for a lot of people and this is one way that our pain and symptom alarm system can go off is you injure yourself and pain continues on that. Our pain and symptom alarm system can go off as you injure yourself and pain continues on. So generally, as we know, a lot of chronic pain, chronic symptoms, they're not due to structural damage or disease in the body.

Speaker 1:

It's due to the alarm system in the brain becoming sensitized. Yeah, that might mean that we might continue to feel pain, like we discussed, after an injury, or that initial injury has healed.

Speaker 2:

Totally.

Speaker 1:

Symptoms might emerge without damage or disease produced by the brain, that feeling and chronic danger and stress.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so for a lot of people you know this type of pain that we're talking about we refer to as neuroplastic pain. If you've been listening to our podcast a while, you've probably heard me say neuroplastic pain and symptoms 800 times at this point. But this is what's taking place A lot of times. It's just like your brain is just stuck in this chronic danger or stress and, as a result, our pain and symptom alarm system just goes wonky.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I think we need to remember the body is not damaged or diseased, right?

Speaker 2:

No.

Speaker 1:

Nerves send safe signals to the brain. A sensitized brain and nervous system receives these messages, but misinterprets them as dangerous.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm, and then your brain's going to produce pain or physical symptoms. Yeah, even though the body's safe.

Speaker 1:

It's kind of a different way of thinking about our body and pain.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's just important to note that when signals go up from the body so right now, let's imagine Anne didn't sprain her ankle, okay, what's happening? You had a good Easterter, besides being sick, didn't sprain anything and safe signals are going up. Safe signals are going up from man's ankle to her brain, being like light amount of pressure, no cause for alarm, neutral sensation. But it's not a direct input output. That's not how our brain and body work. So signals are coming up from the body being like hey, everything's safe and ankles okay, but that's getting combined with a bunch of other information.

Speaker 2:

It's getting combined with and being toxically in stress because she's sick and she's trying to take care of her kids at easter uh, common, it's getting combined with her husband not helping out enough common as well, and it's getting combined with her husband not helping out enough Common as well, and it's getting combined with her husband being way too intense and working a lot.

Speaker 1:

Often all the time.

Speaker 2:

So there's all this danger that the safe signals are getting combined with in the brain.

Speaker 1:

Uh, and so when that happens so say that happened to me, tanner would I feel pain in my ankle?

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's the potential and this is what happens with neuroplastic pain and symptoms. There's not accurate communication going from body and brain.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and that's a really good thing to think about. And so, if you're not used to thinking about it this way, if you're new to our podcast, we really want you to allow that idea to marinate in your brain when you kind of are curious about maybe your pain or symptoms and how you experience and perceive them.

Speaker 2:

Yes, because it's the level of danger sensed by the brain and nervous system and that's going to determine whether or not your brain is going to generate these chronic pain or chronic symptoms. And so the really important piece that's interesting about the brain is, compared to acute pain, like when acute pain happens, like Anne sprains her ankle, the somatosensory cortex kind of lights up.

Speaker 1:

I know fancy brain term, I'm giving him a little look right now.

Speaker 2:

Basically, the acute pain areas in your brain light up. When pain becomes chronic or fatigue or any other symptom, what takes place is different areas of the brain start to light up.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so something's still happening in the brain, oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but areas associated with memory and emotions. That's where things transition to, and so this is what's going to be driving your chronic pain or chronic symptoms. Now, one thing I like to talk about with people is how we become wired to produce pain or chronic symptoms. Now, one thing I like to talk about with people is how we become wired to produce pain or symptoms. So famous quote from Hebb.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

In 1949, a long time ago, he had this famous quote. You've heard it before neurons that fire together wire together, yes, and so when your brain is experiencing this repetitive pain or symptoms, what happens is the neurons form this really strong network and if you have repeated activation of pain or symptoms, the sensations can result in strengthening the neural connections in the brain, increasing the pain or symptom signals efficiency.

Speaker 1:

Ah. So say, for instance, my ankle tenor say, we go back to that scenario of okay, I didn't injure my ankle at all, but I had a lot of stressors going on, a lot of overwhelm going on and that's happeningm going on. Yeah, and that's happening often. Maybe I'm a bit nervous of my ankle, maybe I've injured it in the past, so I get like a bit wary of it. Could that be a big setup for continuously feeling pain in my ankle because of that fear?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because you've got to think about it. If you're scared? Yeah, and a lot of people listening to this this podcast. We have this belief that our body's flawed yeah and you're not to blame for that. We've been kind of conditioned this way because of our medicalized society. But you're scared about your ankles. Sure you have this ongoing danger because you're raising young kids and your husband's not helping enough.

Speaker 1:

Super ongoing always going today, today the danger today.

Speaker 2:

But imagine that pain keeps repetitively happening, day after day, for months on end.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, your brain's learning that pain sensation better and better well, it's interesting because then there's that link together and so, yeah, if I'm always kind of wary of it and then I have all these stressors, then yeah, it's like they get combined. So every time I have the stressor and then I feel the pain in my ankle. If I didn't know about this, I would always believe, oh my gosh, I injured it again.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, there'd be that kind of ongoing fear and the more it happens, the better your brain learns it. It becomes more long, lasting, more sensitized. Essentially, think about this, think of any skill you've learned in your life. Yeah, the more you practice, the more there's improvement. So I always give the example of when our son, when he was a little baby, he was learning to walk, yeah, and he was scared. He's kind of cautious like us, like he's a little baby.

Speaker 2:

He's got an anxious temperament for sure, so he's nervous and he could walk around at this point by holding, like our finger yeah you hold our finger, we'd walk him around our kitchen. What I did when this is an interesting thing when he was first learning, I took a um like a butter knife and I put in his hand and he was walking and I just let go of the butter knife and he was like walking. That was when he took his first steps. He's just walking around, doesn't realize.

Speaker 1:

I'm going over. He knows better that he took his first steps before that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's painful. Don't tell me that.

Speaker 1:

I just that was not his first steps. Well, it was his first steps with me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, don't take the specialness away from me right now. I.

Speaker 1:

I feel like, have you thought this experiment in your mind was always his first step? I really did Wow.

Speaker 2:

This hurts my heart right now, that's sweet, but anyways, this is when I thought my son took his first steps Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Span out to now, when he's seven, almost eight. He's walking around all day, not thinking about it. He rarely probably thinks about walking, unless he trips, because the more you practice, the better his brain learned it. And so I'm careful when we talk about this with people, because it sounds scary when we think about your brain strengthening these pain or symptom pathways becoming more sensitized over time. I've had a lot of people be very panicked about this and that's why it's important that we intervene and there's a number of ways we can do this. But today, the practice that we're going to talk about is embodiment, and embodiment practice with pain and physical symptoms, and this is A brain retraining exercise. It's a tool for desensitizing that pain or symptom alarm system, and the more we practice the better. Yeah, we need to be consistent, as Anne loves to say. I do, and this essentially means, in this practice that we're about to go through, we need to get out of our thinking minds and get into feeling the sensations in our body with curiosity and safety.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think this idea of embodiment is, if we stay all the time in our thinking mind, that's often kind of fueling that fear sensation, that pain-fear kind of cycle that we can fall into rumination frustration. So everything that can keep it rolling often is in our cognitive kind of cycle that we can fall into rumination frustration. So everything that can keep it rolling often is in our cognitive kind of relationship.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, people end up in this like obsessive worry thought loop taking place, yeah, and I get. Being in our body with pain and symptoms is scary. So, again, with this practice, you want to do it when it's more mild to moderate. We want to start small, don't do it during the middle of a pain or symptom flare, but we're dropping in and we're trying to create safety with the sensation, because that's what's going to desensitize this pain or symptom system uh.

Speaker 1:

So back to that example with my ankle. Um, if I notice all these stressors going on and I realized, oh, I've been fearing my ankle, I am feeling some sensation, it's almost intervening, at that time of like, okay, wait, I see why this is happening, my body is okay. But then dropping into that embodiment practice of creating safety with the sensation and almost slowing down with it and spending time there.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly it. We're slowing down the nervous system and regulating it intentionally. We're breathing slowly, we're anchoring our attention in the present moment and we're changing this automatic response that so many of us have to our pain or symptoms, as you've said, like this dysregulated response, difficult emotions, fear, and we're shifting towards being curious, feeling safe, observing having this kind of posture as we go about things, and this allows our brain to start to reappraise the sensations. Slowly, it's realizing oh, it's making a mistake, my body's safe, I'm okay to be here, this is going to pass over time. Yeah, and that cognitive relationship we, this is going to pass over time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that cognitive relationship. We need that to recognize what's going on. But then we need to really allow ourselves to be curious about the sensation and explore it and become embodied, to create that safety with the nervous system.

Speaker 2:

And when we do this consistently, Ann.

Speaker 1:

Yes, consistency.

Speaker 2:

Repetitively the pain and symptoms can reduce over time or become eliminated. But again, as we're about to go through this and I'm about to stop talking, people I promise the key is safety here. Don't do this practice trying to force them to change, control them, make them go away. We want that long term, but in the short term, all we're doing is creating safety and we're just retraining the brain by focusing with curiosity, observing and having this sense of safety.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So let's go through an embodiment practice for pain and symptoms. An embodiment practice for pain and discomfort. This is best used when your symptoms are at a mild to moderate level. Begin by closing your eyes or lowering your gaze. We'll start with some belly breathing as you inhale, first fill your lower abdomen, next your upper abdomen, next your upper abdomen and finally your chest, and then exhale in reverse, emptying your chest and then your upper abdomen, and then your upper abdomen and then your lower abdomen. Fully exhale, letting out all the breath. Settle in with each exhale. Soften your body into the surface, supporting your weight. Settle in with each exhale. See if you can find a pleasant or neutral sensation and move your attention. Something in this practice.

Speaker 2:

Your goal is to send safety signals to your nervous system, and you can do this by simply allowing and exploring the, the sensations of pain or discomfort. Notice where they are located. Are the sensations only in a small area of your body or are they more widespread? Now drop into the sensations, really feeling them, with curiosity and interest. How would you describe the sensations? Do they feel burny, tingly, pressured, achy, prickly or sharp? What words would you use to describe them? Focus on the unpleasant sensations, but not with too much intensity. You're not studying for a test. We don't need to judge, scrutinize or fix what's happening. Take a full breath in and out. Soften your posture once again and continue to curiously explore. See if you can explore the sensations like a curious kitten or puppy would explore the room you are in. They would be interested in every new object in the room. Be goofy and playful and have no expectations. Allow yourself to be curious like you've never felt these sensations before. Soften your eyes, relax your jaw, drop your shoulders and allow yourself to stay with the sensations. Explore them with lightness, ease and curiosity. Notice what shape, size, color and texture they are. Where do the sensations start and end? And if the sensations are hard to focus on right now, you could focus more on their edges edges as you stay with the sensations. What do they do? Do they intensify, reduce, move or change in any way? You're teaching your brain and nervous system you're safe by adopting a curious, observing posture.

Speaker 2:

Next, you can use safe self-talk to remind your brain that the body is healthy. There is no damage or disease within. Although these sensations are unpleasant, they pose no danger. As you use safe self-talk, what occurs within occurs within. Notice any emotions, sensations or shifts in your nervous system state To stay in the healing window.

Speaker 2:

Now let's shift from the sensations of pain to the safety signal of belly breathing. Feel the sensations of breath, making your exhale long and slow. Savor any pleasant sensation you can feel in your breathing, really leaning into how it feels. Now, focus on the sounds around you Sounds closer or further away, from inside or outside. Notice what sounds your nervous system prefers and allow your focus to gravitate towards them. Observe any rhythm, tone or movements to the sound.

Speaker 2:

Again, notice any shift in your nervous system as you explore sounds and breathe fully If available to you. Lean into sensations of calmness, ease or lightness. Savor for a moment anything that feels pleasant. Next, shift your focus back to the sensation of pain or discomfort. Return to curiously exploring all the details of it the shape, the texture, the temperature or any other qualities you can sense. You're welcome to shift back and forth between pleasant and unpleasant sensations. This teaches your brain that all sensations are safe to feel. Keep your breathing slow and your posture relaxed as you continue to explore sensations. Notice if your pain or discomfort has shifted, intensified or stayed the same since beginning this practice, and remember there's no right or wrong, just observing with a sense of safety. Take a few final breaths being in your body for one last moment, away from the body, and return to the room. So I hope this practice was helpful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

We wanted to give this away for free. Again, in our digital course we have over 60 plus somatic practices, brain retraining practices. The link to sign up is in the description of this episode, so that's always an extra support if people need it. Now we're going to go back to our Easter Sunday.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and hopefully I'm going to kind of step out of my stress, de-stress a little bit and maybe do some nervous system regulation of my own, because it was stressful.

Speaker 2:

It was.

Speaker 1:

It's putting me on that high alert a little bit. Luckily there is no ankle pain, though.

Speaker 2:

No, ankle pain no, you're good there.

Speaker 1:

I'm good there, that's a good thing. Yes.

Speaker 2:

So thank you everyone for listening, thank you for and we'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 1:

Talk to you next week. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, instagram and Facebook accounts in the episode description.

Speaker 2:

We wish you all healing.