The Mind-Body Couple

The Purge: Releasing Emotions Heals Chronic Pain and Illness

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson • Episode 112

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What if the key to healing chronic pain isn't fixing your symptoms, but releasing the emotions trapped in your body? When our nervous systems get stuck in protection mode due to stress, trauma, or childhood experiences, physical symptoms often follow—creating a feedback loop that's difficult to break.

Most of us respond to difficult emotions in ways that keep us stuck. Some disconnect completely, living "neck up" in a state of perpetual analysis (alexithymia). Others view emotions as inherently dangerous, having learned from experiences where emotions seemed overwhelming or unsafe. Many consciously avoid emotions through distraction, never allowing themselves to fully process what's happening in their bodies.

Breaking this cycle requires what we call "the purge"—letting yourself fully experience and release emotional energy. This isn't always pretty. It might involve crying, shaking, or journaling raw truths. But when we allow this natural process instead of intellectualizing or ignoring our feelings, we help our nervous system regulate and begin healing.

The process starts with recognizing emotions as bodily sensations. Sadness isn't just a concept—it's hollowness in your chest or a pit in your stomach. By approaching these sensations with curiosity rather than resistance, and creating safety through techniques like breathwork and self-compassion, we can release what's been trapped.

This approach combines elements from pain reprocessing therapy, somatic experiencing, emotional awareness and expression therapy, and polyvagal theory. When practiced consistently, it creates a positive feedback loop—reducing resistance, releasing emotional energy, regulating your nervous system, and diminishing pain.

Ready to transform your relationship with emotions and chronic symptoms? Try our free 20-minute somatic practice for releasing emotions on YouTube, or explore our comprehensive digital course "The Somatic Safety Method" with over 60 specialized practices. Your body has deep wisdom—when you listen and release what it's holding, healing becomes possible.

Free Practice: https://youtu.be/CC6wTTaWJaY

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married! In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were occurring due to learned brain pathways and nervous system dysregulation. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make gradual changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, which is an in-depth online course that provides step-by-step guidance for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Also check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Discl...

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the MindBodyCouple podcast.

Speaker 2:

I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Anne Hampson. This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms. If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at painpsychotherapyca or purchase our online course at embodycommunitycom to access in-depth education, somatic practices, recovery tools and an interactive community focused on healing. Links in the description of each episode. Hi everyone.

Speaker 1:

Hi everybody.

Speaker 2:

Welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to our podcast Releasing emotions heals chronic pain and illness. Yes, this is a vital topic that we really hit on a lot in our approach when we're treating chronic pain, chronic illness. And, you know, through the research and practice of people like Dr John Sarno, Dr Howard Schubiner, we've really come to understand that there's this deep connection between emotions, chronic pain, chronic illness and we really are going to break this all down today and how we can actually start to respond to our emotions with safety, which is ultimately going to help you heal.

Speaker 1:

Totally. But first we want to discuss the ways we might respond to difficult emotions, because this is an important piece for us to focus on.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I really think people should listen in and reflect as we go through these ways we typically respond to emotions. If we don't know how we're typically responding or avoiding them, it's really hard for us to actually just dive into feeling them.

Speaker 1:

Right. So the first one that we want to go through is the complete disconnection from emotions, and we think a lot of people can relate to this. That idea is living neck up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and this is a really fancy term that's been around in therapy for a long time that they call alexithymia. Yes, I want everyone to try and say that 10 times really fast right now.

Speaker 1:

I can't say it very well, but this is the inability to drop in and describe sensations, the automatic focus on thinking and analyzing which is super commonplace in our society today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and this trait is actually kind of praised in our society, unfortunately, like we really prioritize, like being rational, and being rational, logical and, as a result, productive. This is, you know, in a capitalistic society, really what we are taught culturally, but also in our family system, in a really major way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and don't get us wrong, like we spend a lot of time kind of thinking in that cognitive part of the brain and analyzing with clients and ourselves. But there's this whole other piece in releasing, exploring and feeling emotions as well, which is that missing piece. The other one is viewing emotions and dysregulation as dangerous and I think a lot of people probably can relate to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think for so many people, this has been modeled to them as kids. Yes, like it's been modeled that emotions are dangerous, we shouldn't feel them, we shouldn't talk about them, we shouldn't express them Like this is what we're taught.

Speaker 1:

Well, and that shouldn't is a big piece. It's this idea that something's wrong with feeling this way. And you know what, tanner, I think you and I can fall into this sometimes, knowing what we know, even with our kids, where they're like expressing big emotions, it's stressful, we're tired as parents and we kind of might shove not shove them along, but kind of like help them end that emotional expression, maybe sooner than they should, because it's hard for us, and so I can really validate why it's difficult negative emotions, whether we're feeling them or others.

Speaker 1:

But it's important to allow space to create normalcy with emotion.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think the other thing that commonly happens to people of why they view emotions and the sensations of dysregulation as dangerous is they've witnessed people in their life, whether you're a kid or an adult. They witness people express emotions where they seemed out of control. It seemed overwhelming, there was a sense of unsafety. So a great example of this is, you know, if anyone's had a parent when they were a kid just explode with anger, like out of control, inappropriate expression, being almost aggressive with it, what's going to happen for most people is they're now going to view oh, anger is dangerous. So then when they start to feel anger, they push it down.

Speaker 1:

Right yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's a really common thing that happens, and the other thing that causes us to view emotions as dangerous is feeling out of control. With just being emotional Like it feels like a really out of control thing, and a lot of times what happens is people don't have enough experience dropping into their body and feeling. So when you drop into, say, fear or anxiety, it feels really dysregulating.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, when that kind of comes out, because we can only avoid emotions for so long and so sometimes they come out in these explosive ways and if we're not really exploring them normally it can feel really scary, also witnessing other people do that can feel overwhelming.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, totally, and you know this idea. It really originates from pain reprocessing therapy, where a big part of that model is fear of sensations. This fear, this natural fear that people have this viewing sensations as threatening.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. The other one we want to mention is this conscious avoidance Also. This might include, like invalidation of our experience and our emotions, intentionally avoiding or suppressing emotions and distraction as a means to just escape and redirect.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think an important clarification here is this is different than that alexithymia, that complete disconnection. They sound similar, but with alexithymia that we talked about earlier, it's not really a conscious choice. It's not like someone's feeling anger and now they're avoiding. It's become this automatic thing, often due to childhood adversity, where they just don't feel it or they, they feel it at a very mild level, where conscious avoidance Most of us do this, whether we're fully aware of it or not is is. You know, our society has so many ways to do this. Doom scrolling on your phone is so common, right, like Facebook, instagram. You're feeling stressed. Instead of feeling stressed now, you're just like scrolling needlessly through your phone looking at things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know what, I am pretty for some distraction, a little bit Like I think there can be healthy distraction and I've said this before on podcasts, but it's knowing okay. When am I redirecting in a purposeful way but not avoiding, and when am I completely just not acknowledging and distracting?

Speaker 2:

No, I agree with you. I think there can be strategic avoidance, but I think for a lot of people it's no longer strategic. It's the only thing they're doing to somehow try to regulate themselves.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, and I've heard a lot this kind of idea of like why should I feel those emotions? Those emotions are important, it's not necessary, and so sometimes our narrative around emotions can also keep us in that avoidance.

Speaker 2:

Yes, now I want to talk about emotions in the nervous system here, because these are very connected. Emotions are the result of our nervous system state, which generates really all sorts of different physical sensations. I like to discuss it with people that we live through our nervous system. Whether we're aware of it or not, it's producing all the sensations that you feel inside and how you feel about your day or about your week.

Speaker 1:

It's actually pretty important if you think about it. It's important of how we navigate the world, and so putting some thought, of thought and practice into the nervous system makes sense.

Speaker 2:

You know, when we're having pleasant sensations we're often quite regulated, we're kind of in this safe, connected state. When we feel unpleasant sensations, it's often because we're dysregulated and in one of these like survival states, such as like fight, flight, fawn, freeze or shutdown.

Speaker 1:

Which is also necessary. So again, that idea that we move between different states, we can avoid dysregulation completely.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's what it is is. You're never going to be in a safe, connected state perpetually.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I always joke with clients when I'm first meeting with them and talking about the nervous system. I always tell people you can meet with me for the next 40 years three times a week and you will never, always be in this safe, connected, calm place.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

We want to increase that energy. But again, we also don't want to resist dysregulation, just like we don't want to resist emotions. Now, nervous system dysregulation it's so closely tied to chronic pain, chronic illness For a lot of us. If we've experienced chronic stress, trauma, childhood adversity or just generally, I would say, emotional overwhelm, your nervous system can get stuck in survival mode, which is what we just talked about fight, flight, fawn, freeze and shutdown. So a real key understanding here is even when the original threat is long gone, you can stay in this nervous system dysregulation where you're overreacting to any sense of danger. This is why people that have faced childhood adversity where they came from a home that felt unsafe now in their life they're quite safe. For example, they have a good boss at work, good coworkers, they have a supportive, loving family, but they're just being triggered perpetually because this is what our nervous system is really good at it's trying to protect us. That's its whole job. It is trying to protect you. We don't like the way that it does that, but it is trying to protect you with dysregulation and for a lot of people, when they're constantly dysregulated, it's going to try and protect you with dysregulation and, for a lot of people when they're constantly dysregulated. It's going to try and protect you with chronic pain or chronic illness.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, now, as we said, this chronic, dysregulated state, it's going to involve a lot of unpleasant emotions that remain stuck in our body if we don't feel them and release them. We're going to talk about the purge a little bit later here. How do we purge and move through emotions? But for a lot of people they just stay stuck in our body and these difficult sensations of emotions and dysregulation, because they feel so dangerous to us, we start to resist them, as you were just talking about. We resist them with alexithymia, invalidation or just this conscious avoidance. And the problem is is the more dysregulated we feel, the worse our symptoms get?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think that's a really important piece, because then it becomes just this loop that we can't get out of.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, our producer Alex. He loves explaining feedback loops. I like it too, but he's really into it. He's like. He's like anything. He always tells people anything that's a feedback loop can become problematic, even outside of chronic pain, chronic symptoms. But this is this feedback loop where people start to feel emotions, dysregulation, they resist them, they feel more dysregulated, pain and symptoms get triggered and the whole loop just perpetuates on. And this is why this resistance and pushing emotions down is going to keep our chronic pain and symptoms alive.

Speaker 1:

And it's super valid, like it makes sense why this loop happens, and the longer we're kind of in that loop, the harder it is to change that. So I only really want to empathize with people in this situation.

Speaker 2:

No, I completely agree that when we're stuck in this loop, it's really hard to break out of it, and that leads us to our next section. Next section of the podcast Dan.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so we're going to talk a bit about how to break out of it then.

Speaker 2:

Yes, the purge, yes, what it really means to release. Healing begins not with fixing or figuring out your symptoms, but by leading your nervous system back to safety.

Speaker 1:

Ah, I think you should say that again, cause that is like gold, that statement, that is it.

Speaker 2:

This is where people get stuck, and they've been doing this brain-based approach for a long time and it's not working. What's happening is people are trying to fix or figure out their symptoms really frantically, instead of focusing on the actual goal, which is leading your nervous system back to safety, and one of the most effective ways to do this is emotional release.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and in order to do that we need to move towards some of the emotions a little bit. We need to kind of stop that avoidance.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. Let's talk about the perch. This is not the scary movie people, but the real life healing mechanism. Scary movies, I tell you, Anne, Me and Anne are not scary movie people.

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 2:

My sister. This is what she watches. It calms her Like it's. It calms a lot of people, tanner it calms her Like it's.

Speaker 1:

It calms a lot of people, Tanner.

Speaker 2:

It calms.

Speaker 1:

I like actually reading about scary movies online. Like their summary, I'm interested in their storyline, but I can't like watch it.

Speaker 2:

I think in the 15 years we've been together I don't think we've watched one scary movie and Anne gets even more scared. People can't see me right now, but what Anne will do, even when we're watching not scary there'll be a suspenseful part and what Anne will be doing. I'll look over on the couch and Anne will have her hand in front of her face, in front of her eyes, and she's like peeking through her fingers. I know being like is it over? I I know.

Speaker 1:

Being like is it over? These kind of people want the solution here I know, but scary movies, not our thing.

Speaker 2:

But we are going to talk about the purge, releasing emotions. Here's the thing. It's messy. Yeah, there can be crying, shaking, yelling into our pillow. Our son likes to do this.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Journaling the raw truth unfiltered, or laughing intensely. They're all ways your body says I'm letting go.

Speaker 1:

And I think this can be complicated, because and I talk with people about this a lot is like we have to work and we have to function and we have to do things, and so our body might want to do that, but we can't.

Speaker 2:

In those situations, yes, and we're going to talk about that at the end that sometimes we have the luxury of, when we feel emotions, we can feel them, yeah, in that time, in that moment, but other times we need to do it almost retrospectively, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Where we have a journal session or we have a somatic session at the end of our day. This is something that I commonly do. Now, when we talk about releasing emotions being messy, we of course want people to stay safe, and what we talk about in our approach stay in the healing window. Yeah, stay safe and what we talk about in our approach stay in the healing window. This is like the right level of emotional sensations that you can tolerate sitting with.

Speaker 1:

And that might be a bit of kind of trial and error and exploration. If you start moving towards allowing and releasing emotions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I always give the example when I was first healing, the amount of anxiety I could tolerate sitting with was like my window was so small I'm doing this with my fingers, you can't see it it was like a millimeter, like it was tiny, like I had to really intentionally approach anxiety when it was more of this mild level. Now I can be and I don't really get super high anxiety anymore, but I, if I do, I can tolerate a pretty high level of anxiety and stay in that window and be with it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. But one thing we want to say, and we've said this before, about approaching anything there's going to be a bit of discomfort, there's going to be a bit of dysregulation. It's again not doing it. When there's none, it is moving towards.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, knowing that, no matter what you do when you're moving through, you're getting exposure and releasing emotions. It is going to feel unpleasant. That's why it's called exposure. It's not something that we would naturally want to choose to do. Now, when we allow the purge, instead of intellectualizing or ignoring it, we help our nervous system regulate Animals and kids. I feel like they're so intuitive in the way they do this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they kind of like and say with kids and they instinctively almost know how to do it. Like, obviously with kids they need to learn and be guided, but they're much more quicker at like going to emotions and allowing them, whereas we grow up and we learn. Oh, that's dangerous.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's over time that we just resist them more and more. We've been taught this by others or we've had scary moments with our own emotions and that's what we're trying to undo. But yeah, with the purge, we're not ignoring it anymore.

Speaker 1:

What would that look like that if someone was like okay, how do I do a purge? What would that look like in practice, tanner?

Speaker 2:

When we talk about what this looks like, the first thing to be really understood here is that emotions, dysregulation, they're always sensations. You don't think you're sad. You feel sad in your body. Now, for myself, it's a little different person to person, but for myself sadness feels like a sinking feeling, feels like a hollowness in my chest. I might have a pit in my stomach. My body goes cold. So the first thing is like we are approaching emotional energy.

Speaker 1:

Would that be recognizing how that emotional that it's there to start and then maybe how it feels in the body?

Speaker 2:

We need to drop into our body and describe what's taking place. It is such a simple skill. I have trained myself to do this throughout my day. It's automatic now, but it wasn't at first, especially if you related more to alexithymia. This is your ticket to change alexithymia. You just need to get more awareness by dropping in, describing and just really deepening your connection, exploring all the subtleties taking place, because a lot of times when we feel emotion, we focus right on the intense part, as where our mind gets drawn, but there's all these subtleties. Like I never realized until I did this work, that my body it starts to. When I get sad or I go into shutdown, my body starts to get very cold or I go into shutdown, my body starts to get very cold. It's a great cue. I can understand oh, this is what I'm feeling now, but that's what's kind of taken place.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and sometimes I tell people just practice kind of pausing and checking in what's going on with my body in terms of emotion and sensation, even if there's not a big trigger, but it's just the practice of starting to kind of pause and look, and so when emotions are present it's a bit easier to go to them. Or we get this practice of like, oh, I want to notice, name and explore.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and so what we're doing at first, when you're like dropping into emotions, is you're getting this exposure and awareness to what's taking place. Yes, and a lot of people, they struggle with the curiosity. I've seen people where they feel sadness for 30 seconds and they're like I'm done, that's enough.

Speaker 1:

And you know, that might be a starting place.

Speaker 2:

That's the starting place, but eventually could you sit with sadness in your body, get exposure to it over time for five or 10 minutes?

Speaker 1:

How would someone do this with creating the safety in the nervous system like we've talked about?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so this is the other part, because we have the exposure piece that we often talk about in our approach to feeling. But as we get exposure, sit with them and I want to say, like, accept and allow them, like just allowing it to take place. We also need to create this safety. That's how we release them, we approach them, we dive into them closer and closer and then we also create safety. Now in our approach. You know we talk about present moment sensing, breath work, certain tapping and massage routines, safe self-talk. So again, you might still be giving these cognitive safe messages.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes we use somatic movement. So at the end of this podcast I have a full YouTube video practice that can get you started for free on how to feel and release emotions. So I'm going to put that link down in the description of this episode and, as much as we can talk about it, me and Ann do our best to explain oh, like, how do you feel and release emotions? The reality is like the best learning you can do is start to practice this on your own. Now our approach.

Speaker 2:

I want to give credit to all the models we pull from. We pull from pain, reprocessing therapy, somatic experiencing, emotional awareness and expression therapy and polyvagal theory and using this in approaching and feeling emotions, we can create a positive feedback loop. So what happens is people reduce the resistance they start to feel and release emotional energy. Your nervous system gets more regulated, pain and symptoms come down. Sometimes pain and symptoms are reduced in the moment. Sometimes it happens gradually over time. So those people are going to be wondering that, but you do this consistently. It's like this positive feedback loop where you feel safer, you're approaching emotions and your symptoms reduce.

Speaker 1:

Well, and one thing I want to say that does take usually time, consistency and a little bit of work, and so this isn't something you do once and then you're like, oh, now I can do it. It's a practice, a repetitive practice, a bit.

Speaker 2:

And I wanted to share a personal story of how I started to understand this. And some of these stories is really how we started to build our approach as well. You know, when I was first healing so I was probably a couple weeks into learning about neuroplastic pain and symptoms I read some of Dr John Sarno's book, dr Schubiner's book. I was getting the education. I understood emotions, pain and symptoms. I was not fully bought in, but I was pretty bought in. This is probably what's happening. My body's probably actually not damaged or diseased in any way and I had this experience. So this you know. Unfortunately for Ann, I was going through this healing right as we were getting married. My wedding was probably a month and a half into me starting to use this, which I'm. I wish there was a little bit later, but the reality is actually I was really grateful I came to this approach because even a month and a half in, all of a sudden I was able to dance at our wedding which was a huge win.

Speaker 2:

Like I was barely able to move. But right before our wedding, about a month before I was doing my bachelor party Now, I was in pretty debilitating, chronic pain. At my bachelor party I had a group of guys. We went out to Invermere, BC, and I couldn't do much and my friends were super nice right, I have a really supportive friend group. They were super lovely to me and supportive. But I felt these emotions building inside Anne. I felt fear.

Speaker 1:

All the typical emotions you might feel leading up to your wedding.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I felt it also because I felt this pressure to make sure everyone was having a good time on my bachelor party yes.

Speaker 2:

And I couldn't do much. So I felt fearful about it. Pressure, I felt some guilt and shame of oh, people aren't having a good time, and I remember my back pain was building and building Like. I remember going to the hot springs with my friends and my back pain was like an eight out of 10. Like it was high. So I went back and I knew enough about this and I did exactly what we've talked about so far. I was like you know what, I just need to let myself feel these emotions and I dove into my body. It was pretty high but I could tolerate it. I dropped in, described, I gave myself exposure, I created some safety with some deep breathing and some messaging, and I did that maybe for 10 minutes. My back pain went from like an eight to a two. I was like whoa, like what just happened, and for the next, the rest of the bachelor party, the next couple of days, I barely had pain.

Speaker 1:

I love that story, tanner, because I think that's an awesome example of like how just almost that accepting that the emotions are here, inviting them, kind of moving through them, can be so useful. Sometimes that release doesn't happen right away and all the time. So we really want to say that and it doesn't mean it's not working, but the whole point of that is just that, allowing and tell our nervous system and our body and our mind learns that it's safe.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and I think it's so key to understand that there was lots of times after this that I did emotional work which was still useful, and I didn't have this instant pain change.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So it's not like that's going to happen every time or you're doing it wrong because you didn't have pain reduction, but it was such great evidence for me of like whoa, like there is really a connection here that's taking place.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, All right. So we're kind of into our closing reflections. One thing we really want to hit on is that releasing emotions isn't a weakness. Our old boss used to really say that. Actually, this is something to be admired and something about strength.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he loves saying this. We worked at an adolescent treatment center and it was filled with these like 16 year old boys 17 year old boys who just thought emotions were weakness. Yeah so he would really pump it up Like you're not weak to cry, like you're not weak to yeah. But I think we all feel that way to some degree in our society, or a lot of us do.

Speaker 1:

Well, and so part of this work is also changing the narrative we have around it as well. Another thing we want to mention and kind of hit on again is that the body is always trying to help and protect you. It has deep wisdom we can listen to and connect with, and we want to reflect on that when our emotions come up. Also, if you're stuck in chronic pain, fatigue or illness, ask your body what's it holding on to? You might be surprised at what you're ready to be released.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think this is so key. There's this understanding that you know your system is trying to protect you and you know your system is trying to protect you and you know these emotions can get really trapped in our body. Now, like I said at the beginning, to get you started, I have that free YouTube video. It's a somatic practice for releasing emotions. It's on there for free. It's a long practice too. I think it's about 20 minutes. So there's some great value there. Check it out, because this is going to make a whole lot more sense if you do that practice. Yeah, the other thing is our digital course, the somatic safety method. It has over 60 brain returning and somatic practices. It's loaded with emotion practices. So if you watch that YouTube video and you really like that style, check out our digital course, because it has everything you need to learn how to feel, experience and release emotions.

Speaker 1:

For sure.

Speaker 2:

So thank you everyone for listening.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for listening.

Speaker 2:

And we'll talk to you all soon.

Speaker 1:

Talk to you next time. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, instagram and Facebook accounts in the episode description.

Speaker 2:

We wish you all healing.