The Mind-Body Couple

Can Repressing Emotions Cause Chronic Pain and Illness?

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson • Episode 129

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What if the aches, tension, and fatigue you’ve been fighting are your emotions asking to be felt? We unpack the research on emotional suppression and show how a nervous system stuck in “danger” can translate stress into very real pain/illness—without structural damage. Drawing on studies of suppression and stress reactivity and clinical insights from neuroplastic pain work, we make the science practical, humane, and doable in everyday life.

We walk through four patterns that keep feelings trapped in the body. Alexithymia makes it hard to notice and name what’s happening inside, so emotions “appear” as symptoms or outbursts. Viewing sensations as dangerous turns normal states like sadness or excitement into alarms you try to outrun. Avoidance behaviors—angry cleaning, overworking, caretaking, doom scrolling, perfectionism, sweets or alcohol—numb for a moment but teach the brain that inner experience is unsafe. Invalidation finishes the loop with self talk like “others have it worse,” which buries signals you need to actually heal. You’ll hear candid stories about misreading sensations, blowing past capacity, and how simple validation can redirect an entire day.

Then we offer a clear, repeatable healing cycle. Use short embodiment practices to connect with sensations safely. Approach feelings with curiosity and compassion, noticing qualities like tight, buzzy, heavy, or warm. As safety grows, the nervous system downshifts on its own and symptoms desensitize. We talk about working within your window of tolerance, using strategic avoidance when you’re flooded, and choosing small, consistent check ins that build confidence. By learning to surf emotional waves instead of suppressing them, you teach your brain that discomfort isn’t danger—and relief follows.

If this resonates, press play and try the guided check in with us. Subscribe, share this episode with someone who needs a gentler way to heal, and leave a review telling us which resistance pattern you’re rewriting next.

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married! In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were occurring due to learned brain pathways and nervous system dysregulation. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make gradual changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, which is an in-depth online course that provides step-by-step guidance for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Also check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Discl...

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Mind Body Couple Podcast. I'm Tanner Murtock and I'm Ann Hampson.

SPEAKER_02:

This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms.

SPEAKER_01:

If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at painpsychotherapy.ca.

SPEAKER_02:

Or purchase our online course at embodycommunity.com to access in-depth education, thematic practices, recovery tools, and an interactive community focused on healing. Links in the description of each episode. Hi everyone.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi everybody, welcome.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome back.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Today, at least the day we're recording this on is Halloween.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yes, Halloween.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

We uh came off the heels last night of a Halloween school dance. And uh now we roll into Halloween tonight.

SPEAKER_02:

And we live in Canada for people listening. Canada Halloween is different from you know Los Angeles Halloween.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Because it's like usually minus 15 Celsius. And so like the kids, you gotta pick your costume strategically because the kids they have to have their winter jacket underneath. But Anne lucks out because you know, both of our kids, our son and our daughter, son's eight, daughter's five, and they're both stoked. They're like every trick retreating, they're like, we're going for it. They're like so excited. Our daughter goes to five houses. She's like, no, too cold. I'm done.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And then her and Ann get to go back to the woods.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_02:

And then our son, an hour in, is like, I'm going for it. And I'm like, oh, it's so cold.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. And Tanner, he told me yesterday that he's like doing the whole block, the whole neighborhood, even. Yeah. So just prepare yourself for tonight.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm prepping.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, we'll be we'll be three and a half hours in.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02:

Have like 15 bags of candy. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01:

And then usually I eat all the candy. I have a bad like sweet tooth. And uh I will like sneak our kids' candy all the time.

SPEAKER_02:

Literally. If there is candy, if there is candy or cake in the house.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah, cake. I like cake.

SPEAKER_02:

And loves cake.

SPEAKER_01:

And pie and cookies and candy.

SPEAKER_02:

All of it. And I don't. Like I really just don't like it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's quite bad. So I uh I don't really get excited because like it's like I can't control myself. Anyways, so now you know that about me listening to our podcast, but it's not about um impulse motivation.

SPEAKER_02:

How Andy likes sugar or how Ann likes sugar. So our topic today can repressing emotions cause chronic pain and illness.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's an important one. And I think something I talk about with most people I meet with.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And I like to have people pose the question: what if the emotions you've been pushing down for years are actually showing up as pain, tension, dizziness, or fatigue in your body? And in this episode, we're really going to dive into the science of how emotional suppression keeps your nervous system stuck and how reconnecting with your feelings can help you reduce neuroplastic pain and symptoms.

SPEAKER_01:

I think this is an important one, Tenor, because I think a lot of people maybe might kind of lightly know that maybe there's a connection, or we've heard heard talk about that. But the science behind it, I think, is important.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And most people, when they've had chronic pain for a while, they understand, oh, emotions have something to do with this. But for those new to the podcast, we talk about neuroplastic symptoms. And they are caused by a sense of danger in the brain and nervous system. And it's not due to damage or disease. That's what our podcast is all about. And so today we're going to break down the four most common ways people resist emotions and how to let the emotions out safely. So, first, the science, there is a lot of research that shows when we repress emotions, we actually feel this higher stress response in the body.

SPEAKER_01:

Your body just like coiled up when you said repress. Right now you're like repress in the city.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, because for myself, I've learned over the years I know that feeling of when I'm like pushing things down. Yeah. Who it doesn't feel good.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and pushing it down is I think a term a lot of people will relate to of like and maybe resonate with of like, yes, I push it down. I I kind of stuff it deep down there so I don't want to notice it.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. And we can do this consciously or unconsciously, but we'll break that down a little bit later. You know, one example from researchers Gross and Levinson, they had participants basically watch films that evoked emotions while measuring their cardiovascular response. Those instructed to suppress their emotional response showed much higher levels of stress activation compared to those who were allowed to express them. So when it comes to neuroplastic pain and symptoms, we can look to the research that's been done by Dr. Howard Schupener. I love his work. Reading his book was one of the reasons I was able to heal. And Schubener and his team have shown that when we can't identify, validate, express emotions in a way that restores balance, we're much more likely to develop chronic pain and symptoms. And if we can express them and let them out, experience them, the pain and symptoms come down.

SPEAKER_01:

So again, I know we've talked about this before. It's that idea that our emotions have to go somewhere and often they can go into the body.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they can go into the body and spiral pain and symptoms. Here's the typical cycle that keeps people stuck in pain and dysregulation. I teach every one of my clients this. First, you have unpleasant sensations or emotions that arise in the body. Yes. I felt some fear.

SPEAKER_01:

And you felt that was unpleasant.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yes. Second, we resist or suppress those feelings.

SPEAKER_00:

What would that have been for you yesterday? Just disconnect and ignore power through pretend you're feeling.

SPEAKER_02:

We're doing the dance and we're going to be excited. Three, the nervous system becomes more dysregulated. I'm at the dance just buzzing inside.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, okay. So ignoring, ignoring, ignoring, pushing down, but you're feeling sensations going on.

SPEAKER_02:

Fourth, pain and symptoms increase because the brain becomes more sensitized. Ah, so did that happen for you? I didn't really feel pain, but I did feel some like tension in my legs, I would say.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so that that's like a like kind of fun example that we wanted to highlight.

SPEAKER_02:

But it can be way more extreme for people, this cycle.

SPEAKER_01:

So what would be an extreme version of that?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, when this suppression and pushing down of emotions happens repetitively over time, that's where like over time pain and symptom sensitivity is just going to increase and increase and increase. And if people don't understand the connection, it can really start to spiral us out over decades.

SPEAKER_01:

Aaron Powell Well, that's something interesting. Because like that's a you know, a kind of fun, silly example that we wanted to highlight. But sometimes with kind of tiny examples, if we're always not listening to our body that way and we're always suppressing emotions, they build, build, build, build, build. Because sometimes it can be hard to think, okay, what am I suppressing? And it just becomes this automatic act of everything.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And really, in short, it's the kind of famous therapy quote. I feel like every therapist in the world uses this quote.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

What we resist persists. Especially when it comes to emotions and the body. So now we're going to talk about four ways we resist feeling our emotions. Now you probably have a combination of these, but we really want people to reflect as we go through these what ones you relate to. Because the first step is we need to identify how we're resisting our feelings, because otherwise we're not going to actually know when we need to feel them. Number one, alexothymia. Big word, alexothymia. It took me like a year to learn how to say that again. This is disconnection from the body. So I'll give you an example. As a child, and maybe as an adult too, I uh I was sensitive. A bit overwhelmed by emotions, we'll say for sure. So I unconsciously, without trying to do this, learned to disconnect from my body. When we talk about Alexithymia, it's unconscious. It's not like you feel sadness and you're choosing to stuff it down. What's happened is over my childhood, I learned to push things down and just ignore them and not even notice them because they felt so overwhelming to me. That pattern, unfortunately, carried into adulthood and contributed to my chronic pain later. So what would happen, and Ann saw this pattern early on in our relationship, I'd be fine. I'd be fine. I'd be calm. Angry outburst. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

That's just uh to me, it felt like out of the blue.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. To me, it felt like out of the blue too. Right, right. Or I thought of us. Calm, calm, calm. Panic attack. I always tell people that is not what's happening. It's not like you're suddenly rageful or you're suddenly panicked. I had basically this disconnection living neck up until those emotion sensations got so big that I could not ignore them.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, and I think I glad you're highlighting that, Tanner, because I think that is kind of a common one that I've also chatted with people about of like all of a sudden this is happening and I don't know why. And I and that's very real.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. There's this unconscious pushing down of emotions that happens and then this big outburst. And I had to shift that pattern to actually heal.

SPEAKER_01:

Something that I think is important about this that you highlighted is often people will say to me, Well, I should have been dealing with my emotions or I should have done this. And there can be this blame. But with alexithymia, we don't, we don't know what we're doing. It's happening unconsciously. So it's important to try to step out of the self-blame.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, definitely. With any of these four, you definitely want to step away from the self-criticism. That's just going to make you more dysregulated as you go. So let's define alexothymia. It's a fancy word for difficulties identifying and describing emotions or body sensations. So what this can look like is struggling to name or describe what you feel physically and emotionally. It could be mixing up emotional sensations like anxiety or sadness with symptoms like pain and fatigue.

SPEAKER_01:

How might someone do that? Like how might those present as pain and fatigue, but actually be anxiety inside.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I've I've had people, you know, because they're so disconnected emotionally that all the sensations almost get grouped into there's something physically wrong. So for example, I've worked with clients where there was a lot of tension in their legs and arms that felt like really overwhelming to them. But it was really just the sensations of anger when they were like tensing and feeling irritable. Do you get the idea? Like we we almost were so disconnected emotionally that everything just gets grouped into physical symptoms.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I know for me, like when I'm really sad or I'm in grief, my body feels quite heavy. I feel quite tired, um, I feel a bit achy. Um and it is a physical symptom, but it's directly connected to my feelings of sadness.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And we want people to start to reconnect. Oh, this is the sensation of emotion or dysregulation. Now, for some people, it's electhymia. There's just an avoiding looking inward or visualizing anything inside. They almost prefer to stay in their head, live in their head, live in the external world, but never inward.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, this, I want to be clear, is an adaptive response. It was for me as well. Often it develops after a stressful or traumatic time where the brain learns to disconnect from the body because it's feeling too in danger of focusing on the sensations. I had to work with alexothymia. I feel like Anne has no version of Alexithymia.

SPEAKER_00:

Why do you say that?

SPEAKER_02:

When and for our listeners, here's a great example. And this is improvement for me. Something stressful will happen at work. I'll ignore. A couple days will go by. I'll ignore.

SPEAKER_01:

So you'll have the emotion, you'll resist it. Yeah, yeah. Ignore it, you'll paletate.

SPEAKER_02:

And in my mind, I'm like, oh, this is not a big deal. Like, whatever. I've done this before. Like, there's no real feeling. And then like two days later, I'll have this like huge stress. Oh, here's what happens with Anne. Ann'll feel stress. She'll come home. She'll share with me. She'll cry for five minutes.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't cry all the time, Tanner. Tanner thinks I cry constantly.

SPEAKER_02:

This is like listen, I'm praising you right now. She'll come home, she'll sometimes cry or express her emotion and then just move on with her day. Like there's such a fluidness to just like, I have emotion, I feel emotion, I move through emotion.

SPEAKER_01:

Actually, an interesting example is I had a bit of stress going on early in the week, maybe some emotions. Um, and then I felt really flat. I actually didn't feel quite well. I felt physically a bit sick in my body, I felt tired. But I took maybe a bit of as much time off as I could to allow myself to kind of rest and listen to my body at that point and kind of understand those emotions. And then that gave me the time to move through.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So listeners, what we're aiming for is to be like Ann.

SPEAKER_01:

Be like Anne.

SPEAKER_02:

So we want people to reflect. Do you have trouble identifying what you feel in your body? Do you struggle to connect with inner sensations? And this is you know what we want people to be aware of because that awareness is the first step back to embodying emotions or dysregulation inside. Number two viewing sensations as dangerous.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think that's a common one. I relate to that too. I think most of us relate to that.

SPEAKER_02:

And yeah, it's it's interesting because everyone's different. Some people view pleasant or unpleasant emotions and nervous system states all as dangerous. Like everything is dangerous. Joy is dangerous, love's dangerous, sadness, fight or flight, like they view it all as just threatening. For myself, I was a bit different where some emotional states, nervous system states, I felt more comfortable with, and others felt more dangerous. So for example, I don't know what my parents did right, but sadness, I've never really viewed as dangerous. When I feel sad, I feel like having quite an ability to be with that sadness, know it will pass, feel quite safe with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, now, but you just mentioned how you push a lot of emotions down.

SPEAKER_02:

I do, but that was the one that I would push down the least. Ah, okay. Like it was, it was even when I was younger, like I remember never really feeling like sadness was a great threat. You think about something like anger or fear, those, those fight or flight energy, I like felt really threatening to me. So like whenever I felt those come up, instantly I was in danger mode. So it's important to reflect on like what emotional states, nervous system states you view as more threatening, because those are the ones you're gonna have to work on.

SPEAKER_01:

And sometimes we can kind of reflect and think, well, I don't view anything as threatening, but this is a really good opportunity to really sit down and kind of look hard. Because you might view something as threatening, but not even realize it. So really take the time to reflect.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, take the time to reflect. And I always tell people like if you weren't taught how to safely feel emotions, your body sensations, they may feel threatening or shameful. Maybe you grew up being told you're too sensitive, stop crying, there's nothing to be upset about. And maybe you saw caregivers or your parents just suppress emotions, or lash out, or shut down. Because if we've we model off of our caregivers.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

And so, like if they've been doing that, you're learning, oh, emotions aren't safe.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's a really common one. And so I often hear that a lot of like, well, you know, emotions weren't something done in our house or uh weren't expressed, or I didn't see them express it. We were taught not to express it even.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And we model this. We we really, you know, our parent, our poorer um kids, they have two therapist parents, but we do try to model that. Like when I feel emotions, I'm not running to hide in my room. I want my son and my daughter to see me feel stressed out, work through my stress, and move through it.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you think they're always seeing you work through it, Tanner?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, it depends on the day.

SPEAKER_01:

But he tries, he's but that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02:

Is like we're trying to model to them, no, it's okay. You can feel this, you can move through it. Or maybe you're just sad for the day, and that's all right. Yeah. Like I think that's really key. But when we're not taught that, yeah, emotions are gonna be viewed as more threatening. So here's the truth sensations of emotions, although they are often unpleasant, they are not dangerous. They're important messages from your nervous system trying to help you understand what you need.

SPEAKER_01:

So back to that example of my week, it was a message to kind of slow down, take it easy, kind of tend to myself. And I feel like I responded in that way.

SPEAKER_02:

You responded. You felt safe in the emotional energy, Ann.

SPEAKER_01:

I did. Not always safe with your emotional energy, but you know.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, work in progress. Number three, avoidance behaviors. Ooh, I love avoidance. I've had to really work on avoidance. I'm a recovering avoider. I really am. Here's one thing that when I was recovering from pain, and even afterwards, I noticed about myself. I would be an angry cleaner. My mom would come over. We were living in like a small apartment at the time when our son was born. And she would come over and help take care of the baby. And she'd be like helping take care of my son. I'd be running around with my head cut off, like cleaning our house like intensely. She was like, Why are you cleaning so much? Like I'd be like, but like I was so frustrated and overwhelmed that that would happen. And I had this pattern where I get angry. I would clean my house for two hours instead of feeling my anger for 10 minutes. That's a version of avoidance that happens. I also, and more recently I've had to work on this, I will just overwork.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Yes. It's funny because you're not angry cleaner anymore.

SPEAKER_02:

No, but now it's working that I have to be really careful with is when I feel dysregulated, especially angry, I'll just dive into working, uh, which is just gonna make me more dysregulated over time. But that's that's what that can look like for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. For me, um, I do relate to the cleaning, but actually that makes me feel quite good. It's like a bit of a release by anyways. Um I don't relate necessarily to angry cleaning quite like how you describe it, but I know for me, I just go straight into caretaking. And it's like shut off my emotions and just do what needs to be done and like hold everything together. Um and a lot of people I talk to, um, maybe a lot of parents I talk to actually relate to that in terms of being in that kind of caretaker role and just going a full head-on into that role of like, okay, shut off, shut off emotions and just do. Sometimes we need to do that, but sometimes that becomes our automatic go-to instead of taking the time to look at our emotions.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And you know, unfortunately, we live in a culture and capitalistic marketplace that largely is built on avoidance. Whether it's with work or kind of with home life, like you're talking about, Ann. When uncomfortable emotions show up, we often move towards numbing out with food, alcohol, watching shows.

SPEAKER_01:

Sugar for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Sugar, cake, cake and ice cream for Anne. Doom scrolling. This is a really, really common just doom scroll. Um channel discomfort into overworking, cleaning, perfectionism, overthinking or talking about emotions. So instead of feeling them, people are like almost overthinking problem solving. Yeah, like it becomes like avoidance, right? And using humor or control to distract.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think like many of us relate to this. It's kind of human to do that, but it's important to identify, okay, where do I fall into this and how much am I using this to avoid? I'm just trying to get like awareness around it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think that's what it is, is I always tell people a little strategic avoidance is okay. Yes. It's protective. But when the avoidance becomes your default, your nervous system is going to become more and more chronically dysregulated, and that's gonna lead to sensitization and chronic symptoms.

SPEAKER_01:

So again, that sadness needs to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. So ask yourself, how do I avoid feeling emotions or stress? When I'm uncomfortable, what do I automatically reach for? I want people to get really aware of this. The angry cleaning, I wasn't fully conscious of. But when I brought awareness to it, now I can choose, okay, am I gonna do this or not? I remember doing that as I was like healing in the in the first couple of years.

SPEAKER_01:

When you chose not to, when you recognized it, what would you do?

SPEAKER_02:

I would lead into actually feeling emotions, which we'll talk about at the end of this podcast. But that's what it is, is like don't stop the one avoidant behavior and then go eat a bunch of cake. Like, you want to like go to the source of being in your body with these sensations. And lastly, number four, invalidation. Ooh, I'm great at this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I uh unfortunately, from a very young age, would invalidate myself. Um invalidate anything I was going through. And this happens even at work sometimes. I remember when we started our company, that was four and a half years ago, around that time. I remember telling Anne one night of like all the things I had on the go. Like I had all these presentations, I was like revamping our website, like I was doing all these things. And I remember Anne being like, whoa, Tanner, that's a lot. Like that's a lot of stuff you're doing. And I never like I had just kept telling myself, oh, business owners do this, not a big deal. Like everyone's doing this. I don't need to feel stressed right now. People are, you know, succeeding in this way. Like I was so good at invalidating that what I was dealing with was not a big thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Where Anne is so good at validating your own experience. It's uh it's it's really quite remarkable. Because I remember seeing this, you do this early in our relationship. It's like I've seen Anne, for example, volunteer at a few places because you get excited about things. You're like, oh, I'm gonna volunteer at this place. But then when it becomes too much, or I remember you were volunteering, but then you started school and you're like, hey, like this volunteer opportunity is just too much. Like I'm overwhelmed. I'm gonna stop. Like there was such a fluidity of I'm too stressed out.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

There's a valid reason to be stressed. Right. I'm gonna drop this so I can do school.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think I str I remember what you're talking about, Tanner. And I think I struggled with that a little bit at the time, you know, a little bit of difficult emotions or shame or whatever. But I quickly was like, no, like it's okay to stop. This is valid. You know, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm gonna acknowledge those emotions or the stress that I'm feeling and respond accordingly.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Where for myself, which I've had to really work on is I'll make 20 commitments, 18 of them that I hate and don't want to do, yet I'm still driving forward, being like, this isn't a big deal. Even though my body's telling me, whoa, this is way too much.

SPEAKER_01:

So at that example time, Tanner, where you're taking on so much at the beginning, what did your body feel like as you took on more and more? And what were you ignoring?

SPEAKER_02:

My anxiety often shows up as like this buzzing tension, kind of tension in the chest. I know a lot of people feel it there, but it's like this buzzy feeling inside. Not quite shaky, but like it's like, yeah, I'm kind of like vibrating inside. And so, like when now I'm very aware of that when I take on new opportunities before I say yes to anything. Like if someone emails me and they're like, hey, we want you and Ann to come on the podcast. I usually say, Hey, give me a few days to think about it. Like I'm giving myself space before committing to be like, how do I actually feel right now? Do I have capacity to do this? That's the idea is like I'm allowing my emotions to guide what decisions I'm making.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

So invalidation is this inner voice that says, I shouldn't feel this way. Others have it worse. I'm being too dramatic, stay positive, get over it. It's this tough judgmental part that means well. It's trying to keep you moving forward, but it's actually going to increase dysregulation by denying your emotional reality.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

And so, as I've discussed, I've really had to learn to do this. So I want people to be on the lookout for those like invalidating messages when you're dealing with something hard because it is a way we resist our emotional state.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Okay, so now we want to talk about strategic avoidance and compassionate awareness. It's important to understand that avoidance didn't happen by accident. It's a learned safety mechanism. But your brain chose disconnection to protect you from overwhelm. That essentially means that your goal isn't to force yourself to feel everything all at once, but it's important to go slow and stay within your healing window. And I think I chat with people about this of like, okay, we want to start approaching emotions, but we don't want to flood ourselves with emotions and go into extreme dysregulation. We want to go slow and just kind of expose like slow, gradual exposure.

SPEAKER_02:

And exactly as Ann said, like you want to start approaching emotions when they're mild to moderate and you're in that window. Because if you're outside that window, like I would never tell someone to drop into their body during a panic attack. Most people do not have the capacity to do that, especially when they're first learning. So, like some strategic avoidance if you're outside that window is okay. But when you're within the window, we want to have this compassion and awareness start to drop into our body.

SPEAKER_01:

Essentially, it's starting to choose consciously to explore emotions and move towards them in a way that feels safe. So recognize instead of just avoidance or not recognizing at all, we want to start building awareness to recognize and then move towards almost bite-sized pieces. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Essentially, the solution that we are going for is embodiment. John Cabot Zinn famously said, you can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

SPEAKER_01:

I really like that. I hope that sticks with some of our listeners, because that's a great phrase.

SPEAKER_02:

We used to have an old boss, me and Ann, um, it was a bit silly, but he he really liked doing it. Of emotions. There's waves because they do come in waves. Yeah. And you know, that's what it makes me think of that quote. It's like bringing we are learning to surf those waves, essentially.

SPEAKER_01:

We can't control the waves, we can't stop them, and we can't and maybe shouldn't ignore them.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. Like you're learning to feel and process your emotions rather than suppress them. And this is going to bring long-term regulation and healing for chronic pain and symptoms.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. And you mentioned that. So again, just to remind people, how does this connect to hopefully reducing pain symptoms, Tanner?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. So I'm going to talk about the healing cycle that you can start to practice that is going to ultimately help reduce pain and symptoms. So here's this healing cycle you can start practicing today. Use embodiment practices to connect safely with your body.

SPEAKER_01:

Where can people find embodiment practices?

SPEAKER_02:

So on my YouTube channel, just you know, go to my YouTube channel. There is a meditation section. There is embodiment practices for emotions free on there. We also have even more of them in our digital course, and I'll put that link for both our YouTube channel and our digital course down below. But that's the first step. You're using embodiment practices to connect safely with your body. Second, approach feelings with curiosity, allowing, and compassion. Notice all the details of how the sensations feel, move, shift, and morph. Also notice any thoughts that pop up or feelings about the feelings. Number three, when feelings are felt and tended to with a sense of safety, the nervous system starts to naturally regulate. Okay, so this kind of starts happening kind of a little bit automatically or yeah, like as you use this repetitively, it's not going to be one time, but as you do this consistently throughout a week, a month, your nervous system starts to more regul naturally regulate. And number four, pain and symptoms reduce through a process of desensitization. So again, if you want some free embodiment practices for emotions, go to our YouTube channel, Tanner Murtaugh MSWRSW. And if you want an even more detailed approach with all the education and practices, our digital course, the somatic safety method, uh has a lot of this in it, and I'll put that link down below.

SPEAKER_01:

So, in closing, healing doesn't happen by suppressing your feelings. It happens when you create safety to feel them. This week, we want you to notice moments when you resist or distract from emotions.

SPEAKER_02:

Pause and ask, what am I feeling in my body right now? Take a second with that. Right now, I want everyone to pause. As long as it's not really extreme, what you're feeling, in the window, healing window. I want you to pause and just notice what you're feeling. Okay, so scan your body, top of your head to the bottom of your feet. What sensations are happening inside right now?

SPEAKER_01:

So I can I'm doing that right now. Um, I'm noticing some fatigue. Maybe a little bit of stress, like I have a busy day, so I'm feeling that. I'm also feeling kind of a bit of like fatigue or maybe even sadness, because last night was really kind of busy the Halloween dance. So I'm just feeling a bit, maybe a bit icky and low, but I don't want to avoid it. Like that's not bad. I want to ride that wave a little bit and just be curious about that sensation. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

And for myself, if I check in, I feel a bit of excitement. All right. Shoulders are kind of up upright a bit more, but not in like a stressed way. I have some of this nice tingliness in my chest, but I also notice my arms are a bit tense with a little bit of like stress for the day ahead. And so this is what we want people to do right now is scanning your body and noticing all the sensations of emotion or dysregulation, and just spending a moment being curious about them, really observing them, exploring them with compassion.

SPEAKER_01:

So if I were to create safety for mine, I would kind of like once we're done recording this podcast, I would go kind of do something nice for myself or take it easy and just kind of get back to regulation.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So this was just a little check-in. It's these mindful moments where you're noticing what's taking place and they add up. They build a gateway towards safety and responding to our internal state. And by doing this, you're rewiring your brain towards safety, which is ultimately going to help you heal your chronic pain and illness. So start building this habit today, everyone.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we are preparing for trick-or-treating tonight.

SPEAKER_01:

No, yes. Maybe that's part of why I'm feeling a little bit of stress right now, too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. You're feeling like I know it's coming.

SPEAKER_01:

It's looming.

SPEAKER_02:

The fatigue's already hitting you.

SPEAKER_01:

It's already here.

SPEAKER_02:

Fortunately, you only have to go to five houses. That's right. Thank you. Maybe, maybe our daughter's just gonna get cold. She's gonna power through. You're gonna be out there for two hours with me.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Well, we wish everyone a healing week, and we'll talk to you all soon.

SPEAKER_01:

Talk to you next time. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, Instagram, and Facebook accounts in the episode description.

SPEAKER_02:

We wish you all healing.