The Mind-Body Couple

Career Success While Healing Chronic Symptoms

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson

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Ambition doesn’t have to cost your health.

We start with the core problem: living neck up. Our culture rewards cognition—thinking, fixing, producing—while the body’s signals get ignored until they become symptoms.

We dig into how to build a meaningful career without reigniting chronic pain/symptoms or overwhelming your nervous system. Tanner shares his personal experience, running two small businesses and staying healthy.

We share a simple, fast tool called drop-in and describe: a 30–60 second check-in you can do multiple times an hour. You’ll hear how that tiny practice can lead to big changes, as you hear your nervous system cues and respond with regulation.

Healing doesn’t demand that you dim your drive; it asks you to balance it. If you’re ready to pursue growth with a safer body and a clearer mind, join us for strategies you can use today. If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who’s pushing too hard, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married! In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were occurring due to learned brain pathways and nervous system dysregulation. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make gradual changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, who is one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, which is an in-depth online course that provides step-by-step guidance for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Also check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Discl...

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Mind Body Couple podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm Tana Murtaugh.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm Ann Hampson.

SPEAKER_00:

This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms.

SPEAKER_01:

If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at painpsychotherapy.ca.

SPEAKER_00:

Or purchase our online course at embodycommunity.com to access in-depth education, somatic practices, recovery tools, and an interactive community focused on healing. Links in the description of each episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Hi, everyone. We have an exciting episode today that's been inspired by one of our awesome clients. And we want to focus today on how our healing journey can coexist with career success.

SPEAKER_00:

This is a question we get a lot from people.

SPEAKER_01:

Rightly so, I think is something to talk about. And I don't think we've actually had a podcast really focused on this yet.

SPEAKER_00:

No, and this is really a topic that's close to my heart, I would say. Because as the listeners know, me and Ann, um, along with our producer Alex, run two small businesses. And it has been a very treacherous and difficult journey for me to learn how to manage staying regulated, not having chronic symptoms, and successfully run companies.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it of like how do I remain regulated throughout this journey? How do I kind of work on healing and be successful in my career? And I think I love that you outlined it like that, because it is possible, but it takes time and it takes work and it takes kind of discussing it right now, which we're going to do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because these things, they can feel at odds with one another.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They really can. And you know, today we're gonna talk about why that is, you know, what actually gets in the way when we're trying to heal and have this successful career. And we're gonna talk about how it's possible, to your point, Anne, to engage in like meaningful work without sacrificing our body and our regulation.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think when I when I work with my clients, Tanner, there this question does come up. And it comes up maybe as people maybe approach returning to work if they were off, or as people are partway through their healing journey and now they're starting to think about the bigger picture.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, because it can feel really overwhelming for people.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Especially if they're getting traction, but then it's like, wait, how do I pin my career into this? Is that gonna change everything for me?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So now I want to share an emotional story.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, Tanner.

SPEAKER_00:

An emotional storytelling time.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, we're ready.

SPEAKER_00:

So when I was starting our first company or therapy practice, to give listeners context, that was about five years ago. I had at that point been healed from my chronic pain and symptoms, I would say for about four or five years.

SPEAKER_01:

And what does healed mean at that time?

SPEAKER_00:

No more chronic pain. They might pop up now and then a few times a year, but nothing debilitating. Fully working, fully living. Now, as I was, you know, working, I was working in public health, and I didn't mind the work, but I wasn't super passionate. I didn't feel very fulfilled, to be honest. And then the first training for the pain reprocessing therapy came up.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember it was like a game changer.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. I was so excited. And I got really intense about it, of course.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And this prompted me to be like, oh, I'm gonna start, you know, offering this therapy in Canada. And at that time, in that first three or four months, I was working a ton. I was getting websites ready. Right. I was making the scary choice to move from my, you know, steady public health job, what we had young kids into doing this private thing. And so there was fear, but uh there it was really driven by excitement.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I remember that. And I I remember being excited for you, Tanner. I'm like, okay, like he's passionate. I don't think I realized at that time, and I maybe I knew, but how your passion can easily tip over into intensity.

SPEAKER_00:

It can. And that's what took place. Yeah. And I can't tell you the exact moment where that happened. Like, I think there was this gradual shift. We talked about it with our clients. There was a shift from this healthy, blended nervous system state of purposeful action. But over months, it shifted more and more into fight or fight, more and more into fight or fight, and even some freeze and shutdown. And then I knew I wasn't feeling good. Like I felt on edge, I wasn't sleeping well. Stuff started to feel really overwhelming. Small things going wrong would have these huge reactions. But I wasn't aware fully how intense I was being, and how my lifestyle was just being driven from this place of fear now. And I remember I went on this walk and it just like clicked. Like, no wonder you feel terrible. Like, no wonder you're not feeling good. Like you're working excessively, you're always in a state of fear. You're not actually enjoying what you're doing anymore. But this is the state that I worked in before my chronic pain ever started when I was in university.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, okay. So could you recognize that? That like this is a normal state in some ways for you?

SPEAKER_00:

Not at first, but on this walk is where it clicked of like, whoa, this is exactly what caused my symptoms in the first place. Now, at this time when I was starting my company, there was little bursts of symptoms, but nothing chronic. Like they were popping up, but they were signals, they were meaningful messages telling me, whoa, like the way you are living is just in this constant state of danger.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think that's so important. And we're gonna talk about this in this episode, because what do you need to be successful? You need to be embodied.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so what does that mean then? Why is that important?

SPEAKER_00:

Because for myself, the reason things got so unpleasant for me in this example when I started my company is I was disconnected from my body.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

I was very disconnected. And, you know, we need to be paying attention to our nervous system. Now on this walk, I clued in, well, what's taking place? How do I actually feel? How is working in the way that I'm working actually feel in my body? I started, it was like this insightful moment of embodiment that basically took place. And while working, it's so easy to become so cognitive.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Well, and I think our our go-to is to go up into our cognitive brain and our cognitive mind and think about it and kind of spiral about it and problem solve and figure it out.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And we can get stuck there, and we just kind of keep rolling in that fashion. And I think that happens at the workplace.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That happens with workplace, maybe problems. And you're right.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's what it is, is we live in a very cognitively based world. Yes. That's what's valued. How intelligent you are, how well you can think through things. And so when people become disconnected from their body and they're just living in their mind, they're constantly, like you said, Anne, fixing, figuring out, problem solving, but they're living neck up.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and there's so much going on underneath in our nervous system that we're not paying attention to that is impacting us and driving us still. And it's like we're forgetting this giant piece of the pie here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, they miss cues because in the story that I gave when my company was starting, there were lots of mild cues in my body telling me, hey, the way you're working is not sustainable. I didn't notice that. What were the cues on reflection? On reflection, there were, you know, when I was starting to not sleep so good, even just in a mild way, just feeling like tense in my body, um, mind racing, like there were cues.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But the cues had to get so big in my body for me to be like, whoa, what's happening?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, which is often pain and symptoms for people.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And we don't want to be waiting until pain and symptoms flare for that to be your first cue. Right. Because it's really hard to successfully work if that's what you're basing, you know, the only cue off of is like when pain and symptom flare hits.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I talk with a lot of my clients about really focusing on dropping into the body, paying attention, listening, and then we want when we return to work or when we if we are working in this process, we want to apply that to the workplace.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I think that's so essential. And people need to like be asking themselves, like after you listen to this episode, yeah, how aware of your nervous system are you as you're going about working? As you're going about living life. Yes. Like that's what we need to be doing. And I want to be so clear about this because this is where people go wrong and where I went wrong. Occasional mindfulness is not going to be enough.

SPEAKER_01:

What would be an occasional example of occasional mindfulness?

SPEAKER_00:

This is a great example. I explain this to like every client I work with. Because if you go on my YouTube channel, you'll find free fancy practices.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, great.

SPEAKER_00:

And in our digital course, we have loads of practices. Yes. And that's for good reason. We need people to practice being in their body in different ways with pain and symptoms, with emotions, with dysregulation, or just with our senses in general. But if you do one kind of embodiment practice where you're dropping into sensations, you do that for 15 minutes a day, and then you spend the other 23 hours and 45 minutes of the day just living neck up, it's not gonna go well.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no.

SPEAKER_00:

There needs to be this consistent awareness of your nervous system. So, how do we do this?

SPEAKER_01:

All right.

SPEAKER_00:

The drop-in and describe skill.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, good one. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

This skill, I would say my clients that successfully heal their chronic symptoms and get back to work and work in a meaningful way, they get so good at doing this like three to five times an hour.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, that seems like a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it seems like a lot, but the drop in describe skill is meant to be this like 30 second to a minute. Okay. And even as I'm working with clients in session, I'm constantly kind of doing this. Yes. A client said this. I'm checking in. So what you're doing is you're dropping out of your mind and you're dropping into your body for a moment. And you're starting to describe, okay, what sensations are happening right now. So for example, right now, I can feel a little buzzy energy. I'm excited, I'm explaining something. My arms feel pretty loose and relaxed. Um, I just had a sip of my coffee, so I can feel some burningness, and my legs feel pretty settled.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so you're still cognitively like aware, but you're focusing on the what's going on. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's all you're doing. And we need to get so good at this. And this is what we teach people in our digital course to be to be utilizing this consistent, quick check-in as you're going about your day. And I'll give you a great example. Thought of this example because this happened on Tuesday. So for the listeners, on Tuesday morning, I film all my content for the next week. Yes. It takes me with setup and all that stuff and filming, and it takes me about three hours. Right. So it's it's a lengthy process. And that part of the business, I almost feel it's kind of like maximum effort. Like I gotta like perform and present, and it's it definitely takes a little bit more mental effort than maybe me doing a session with a client. Right. That feels a little bit more relaxed, more conversational. So already I'm a little on edge. Also, next week, me and Ann are taking another big step towards filming a big project that we're doing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So this is on my mind. I'm already kind of stressed a bit on that. Right after filming, I get this text from our producer Alex.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

I want to be clear and be kind to him. It was, it was a very kind text where it's like, hey, like I don't like this one post for this reason. I think we gotta change this in the future. It was it was that simple. But I was in a place of stress that like it hit where I was like, oh, that feels I feel sensitive to that. And so I dropped in and described and realized, oh, this is how I'm feeling right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. With that experience, Tanner, you notice how you're feeling. Did you validate that for yourself? Yeah. Did you kind of just become aware, but try not to react, like not to react to Alex or react to the situation? What did you do there?

SPEAKER_00:

So I want to be clear. At first, I didn't try to figure out the reasons. Because that's cognitive. That's where people go. I'm you can get there, but I just noticed, oh, I feel the sinking feeling in my stomach. Okay. My chest feels pretty buzzy, right? Like my arms feel tense. Like I noticed, oh, I'm I'm in fight or flight right now. That's what's happening. There's like this anxious, irritable state. After doing that, yes, my mind went to, okay, what are all the factors that are adding up to me feeling this way? But I want to be clear with people, you don't need to figure this out perfectly because people then get lost in figuring out why they feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And it almost escalates. But I just really lightly was like, oh, I got this text from my producer. Uh I just filmed for three hours. I have a big project next week. So I'm feeling overwhelmed about that. So I was making some cognitive understanding. Okay. But don't get lost in that. The point of this is to drop in and describe. And then based off that, I took cues off my body.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, so even if you don't have cognitive meaning making out of it, the cues from your body is like a pass forward.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Because we love the understanding of human beings. But the point of this is to be like, this is where my nervous system's at. And now I'm going to take cues off this. So I took a two-hour lunch break. Uh I could have done other work, but I was like, no, I'm not doing that. I did some yoga, walked our dog, I watched some funny sitcom TV. Like I just took it easy, and then I was prepared for the afternoon for my sessions.

SPEAKER_01:

Taking cues off the nervous system like that can be so powerful and can be enough. And I think we need to get our minds around the fact that, okay, meaning making and cognitive peace is important. But just dropping into the body, noticing, allowing an awareness can be all we need to move forward. And we need to trust that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

You don't need to understand the story necessarily. That's nice if we can put it all together, but that's not always going to happen.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a big shift for people. I think that's hard to grasp. Even for myself, I struggle with that too.

SPEAKER_00:

It is. But if you've dropped in and described and realized you're dysregulated in some way, now you can take cues. And this is how you successfully work. Is you do this after a work task, after a work meeting, and you're adjusting your work life accordingly. That way you're working in a more regulated place. Or if you are dysregulated, you're trying to regulate and take care of yourself as that's happening.

SPEAKER_01:

And which you did, your example of going for that break was that.

SPEAKER_00:

Where the old me would have got dysregulated by that text, by the filming, would have pushed through the rest of my day, would have pushed through the rest of the week, would have pushed through filming next week, and then felt incredibly awful. And because now I've pushed past all these signals.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think at that point it can feel so overwhelming when we do drop in because there's been this buildup of maybe not listening.

SPEAKER_00:

And this leads us to our next piece that I think is so essential if people want to work successfully. Watch your intensity.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, intensity.

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like intensity can show up in so many kind of ways, too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it does. And this is like the natural mode of my nervous system.

SPEAKER_01:

Intense.

SPEAKER_00:

Um the time. Yeah. Anne's used to that. Um, you know, our producer Alex is very aware of this.

SPEAKER_01:

He's also used to it.

SPEAKER_00:

And, you know, this point really builds further on that importance of paying attention to your nervous system so you can catch when you're being intense. But really, we're, I want to call out my fellow perfectionists, people pleasers. You know, most of us are guilty of this who have neuroplastic symptoms, and we just forget our own body when we're lost in these coping mechanisms. Yes. And all the attention goes into performing, being productive, completing tasks, getting social approval. And meanwhile, as you're doing all this, your nervous system is just getting more and more dysregulated and rattled.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I relate to that, Tanner. Like, and I can fall into that. Part of me, you know, wants to be liked, wants to do well. I want to do a good job.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, this is like this is kind of where you fall into this. I would say for me, it's I want to feel feel seen. Uh I want to feel worthy. Like these are the things that drive perfectionism and people pleasing. And it's important for people to ask, what is driving these coping mechanisms?

SPEAKER_01:

Why is that important to know?

SPEAKER_00:

Because if you understand, like, for example, I want to feel seen and I want to feel worthy. If I understand, okay, that's what's underneath, and I understand that perfectionism has never actually led to that in a lasting, sustainable way, I can understand that that's not actually gonna bring forward what I'm wanting. Otherwise, it just kind of remains unconscious and we just keep driving forward with it. But it doesn't. Like my perfectionism might make me feel worthy for a moment. That that moment of success is gonna fade really quick. Right. What's helped me feel seen and feel worthy is, for example, when I have these like magical moments with my kids.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's that's like really what will bring that feeling forward way more than me succeeding at X, Y, and Z in my job. But I didn't I wasn't aware of that when I was first healing. And so it's just asking yourself okay, what's driving this high intensity? What's driving your perfectionism and people pleasing? And and what's it trying to accomplish? Like what I think often, for example, perfectionism is trying to accomplish. Hoping people feel epic. I like everyone likes to feel epic. There's nothing wrong with that. I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

It's okay to even aim to feel epic in a way that works with your nervous system.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that, but this is what uh have you heard the term flex culture before, Ann? I think so. This is like this is really common on like Instagram, um, TikTok. I mean, I I took a definition here from the urban dictionary. Here's here's the definition of flex culture: the behavior of deliberately showing yourself off about your personal belongings or you know, successes in a goal of giving yourself higher value in front of other people. This is what happens. People, you know, want to succeed to show off. We're all guilty of this. I think this is human nature. You know, people knock it so much, but we all do it, let's be honest. And the problem with this, with this flex culture, is it it drives people to be intense and to always be comparing. And that is not gonna bring any form of healing for someone.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and probably not a lot of form of regulation in the nervous system either.

SPEAKER_00:

I I have a question for you, Ann. I'm wondering, you know, where did these your high-intensity habits, where do they begin for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Um like I think like a lot of people probably having had difficult experiences maybe with feeling embarrassed, um, kind of fear of failure, not liking that, that discomfort with that feeling.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, that performance idea for sure, of like, okay, I want to show that I I got this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, definitely. But you're right, with overriding maybe our nervous system, and we just push, push, push, and cognitively we're like, this is the solution, and it's not.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, right, to kind of think about this stuff. Like, where did these habits begin, right? Which you have this idea, and I've seen that behavior in you. Where truly, like, I think as we do our therapy session right now, though. Therapy with Anna.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, in Tanner.

SPEAKER_00:

I'll use my therapy. Okay. Um for anyone listening, this is a really silly side note. Oh, I guess. But you know, therapists, lots of therapists have their therapy voice, calling all therapists out right now. And when I'm struggling, I can it pierces my ears like nothing else, and will shift to her therapy.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't mean to. It's automatic.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, and you do it with our kids too.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry. It's not a bad voice. People like it, I think. People do like it.

SPEAKER_00:

People do, but I just I know you on this personal level. So when it switches to maybe not for personal relationships. It's like Anne's doing therapy with me right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Anyways, continue your therapy with me. You've seen me get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then from that embarrassment rises this intense wave of high-intensity living where you're like, I'm gonna succeed at this no matter what. Like it gets so intense so quick.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Well, and you're right, that slowing down, dropping into the body, being aware of what's going on, also allows us to then notice, right? Instead of just automatically being impacted and falling into that pattern.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. You know, for myself, I I know the moment when this high intensity pattern started or really took off. It was in junior high. And I was doing pretty so-so in school. Uh, I didn't care that much. Right. Um, but I started getting some negative feedback from my teachers at parent teacher conferences, the dreaded parent teacher conferences. And there was this poster project. The little the poster project, the foldable ones where like you put pictures and writing and all that. And I remember I got a sign, and they were like, Oh, you got two or three weeks to do it. So I don't know what clicked in little Tanner's brain, but something clicked where I went home and I got home around four. I worked in my room all the way until next morning. So we're talking. I sat at my desk in my room, and I don't know how many hours that is, well over twelve, and just worked. I completed it. Epic poster project. Guess what happened? I went to school, handed this thing in. What took place was all this praise, right? Of like, how did you do that? Other kids were jealous, you know, my teacher was in awe. My teacher told my parents they were in awe. And all of a sudden, that felt so good. That felt like gold to me. And so from that moment forward, it's like, oh, I learned if I put in maximum effort, I'll get praised. People will love me, people will respect me. And so why wouldn't someone drive forward?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and and that is that conclusion makes sense. And so, like working hard, trying, like, we're not knocking that, but it's when it becomes this we blindly follow this need to be perfect, this intensity, this like kind of we develop negative kind of thought process around it when it becomes problematic.

SPEAKER_00:

It does. I'm okay if people pick and choose when they want to be intense. Sure. It's like if it's just a blanket, you're always intense, though, that's not going to achieve you feeling loved and worthy and successful. What it is gonna achieve is you perpetually being in fight, flight, or freeze.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's just really important. And, you know, when I talk about it with people, what we're aiming for is that blended state of purposeful action where you're somewhat safe and regulated, but you're also mobilized.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, so like you're when you had that passion that you talked about, it started in that way.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. There was this state of purposeful action when I first took the pain reprocessing therapy training. But you need to know the difference between when you're in purposeful action and when it starts to slip to fight or flight.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because there is a crossing over point that'll take place for most people. And the reason we started this podcast off by explaining to people you need to be embodied. The reason is you need to be embodied so that you know when that flip, that switch goes, goes over, right? Um, and I've gotten really good at that. I know exactly how it feels in my body when I'm shifting from this excited, meaningful, purposeful place to fight or flight. I know exactly how that feels inside. And because of that, when it clicks, I'm like, okay, I gotta pull this back.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, and it's been practice for you.

SPEAKER_00:

That I have probably spent more time on than anything else we have talked about in this entire podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, interesting. So why is this so important, Tanny?

SPEAKER_00:

Because that is my nemesis.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

The few times a year I get pain comeback, it is almost always because of this switch.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh one thing I want to say here is I always talk with my clients about how informative pain flares can be. And this example for you is you are aware of that connection and you've learned that from your pain flares.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I know what triggers it. And that's really helpful information for me to be aware of. One of the last things we want to talk about, which is really key, is you need to make life more than about just work.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, Tanner, you struggle at this. I feel like you need this right now a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01:

This is uh timely for you.

SPEAKER_00:

This is. I I suck at this.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and why do you suck at this?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, my brain, it is good at one thing. Working. Well, no, no. Not necessarily. It it's good at focusing on one thing. I am really good at intensely focusing on one thing. I find it really hard to focus on more than one thing at a time. Yes. Now, unfortunately, that has become work in recent times, and I've had to be very careful. But, you know, we need to balance our nervous system to heal. And that balance is created through the balance in your life. So most people cannot work 80 hours a week and expect to feel regulated.

SPEAKER_01:

No. I I want to bring up an analogy because um at a place that I used to work in addiction. Um, and we would talk about this a lot of like, what's your pie? What do you fill your pie? And you think of a circle with like a pie chart, like triangles, and it needed to be pretty balanced. There needed to be some work, some purposeful action, there needed to be some play, there needed to be like rest, there needed to be kind of love and connection. And often for healing, when we talked about with addiction, we needed a balanced pie. It wasn't just kind of one area. And we would talk about that a lot with recovery. And I think about that a lot when I work with clients with chronic pain and symptoms of like, what's the pie? What's going on there? Or is it just one slice that we're focused on?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, I think that's such a it's a good way to view it because yeah, people just get so focused on work.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And for a lot of people, when they're succeeding, it feels good. So they work more.

SPEAKER_01:

And they ignore all other areas.

SPEAKER_00:

They ignore everything else, but we need to be balanced. And you need to, it's kind of the old Canadian drinking or driving slogan. Know your limit, stay within it. It's silly, but like we need to know that. Like, yeah, how long I can work will be different than how long another listener can work and stay regulated. Yes. Like I know I can get away with working longer hours, but I know the cutoff. And that's the important piece to be aware of yourself. And I came to that from feeling or from being embodied and knowing, okay, if I go over X amount of hours a week, it never feels good. I always feel dysregulated.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And sometimes our limit is a bit different than what we think it should be. So again, it's challenging maybe the perfectionism, the just pushing through that idea of that epicness. We can still work towards that, but understanding and listening to our body and nervous system about our limit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So we need to learn the importance of downshifting, of downregulating your nervous system. So people need to be asking themselves, what are the non-negotiables? What are the non-negotiable things that I need to do in my day or practices that I need to do in my day for me to feel embodied and regulated while working? Like for myself, I always do a morning practice.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Qi Gong, emotional work, and I always do an evening practice after our kids go up to quiet time. At lunch, I never work. So there is an hour of my day where I will never let myself break that. I am always making sure I'm walking my dog or cooking food or watching a funny TV show. Another non-negotiable is I never work past 430. I can start really early in the morning. That feels good to my nervous system, but working past 430 never does. And so that's what I mean is like people need to figure out what's going to kind of downshift them.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And allow room for regulation and flexibility. I talk with a lot of people about just pausing throughout the day, pausing, checking in with the body, breathing, kind of giving permission for that. Because when we're in full intensity, we don't think that's allowed. So we want to get in the habit of allowing it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think it it speaks to just the importance of giving yourself exposure to resting and being imperfect. Yeah. That's really what we're talking about. When we're talking about lowering intensity, like we need to give ourselves exposure to resting or to only giving it 60% effort on a task or taking a task out of your day. That's not gonna feel good at first. Like when we're when you're driven, you're pushing forward, like it's gonna be going the opposite direction of what your nervous system naturally wants to do. But really important. So I think there's so much in this episode that people can take away.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we hope so. I think it was really useful. It was really helpful for me to actually kind of rethink about this in my own life as we were talking about it too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like I I really hope people take from this and start to utilize it. Healing doesn't require you to give up your ambition.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

I just want to be clear because that can feel really hopeless to people, but it really does require that you change the way you relate to work, to intensity, and to your body. So thank you everyone for listening.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you soon. Talk to you soon. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, Instagram, and Facebook accounts in the episode description.