The Mind-Body Couple

Trauma Triggers: What can I do when I freeze?

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson

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0:00 | 26:47

We answer a listener’s question about the freeze response, teaching a straightforward method to move from freeze to safety. We normalize triggers and provide practical ideas you can use to respond when your nervous system drops in to danger mode.

• Learn the ADDS skill: ask why, drop in, describe, shift to safety
• Hear Tanner's personal story of rejection and freeze, and how he got out

For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, Instagram, and Facebook accounts in the episode description


Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married!

In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were neuroplastic, not structural. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms.

Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, an in-depth online course that provides a step-by-step process for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Disclaimer: The information provided on this podcast is for general in...

Welcome & Resources For Healing

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Mind Body Couple podcast. I'm Tana Murtaugh and I'm Ann Hampson.

SPEAKER_00

This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms.

SPEAKER_01

If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at painpsychotherapy.ca.

SPEAKER_00

Or purchase our online course at embodycommunity.com to access in-depth education, somatic practices, recovery tools, and an interactive community focused on healing. Links in the description of each episode.

SPEAKER_01

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Hi, everyone.

SPEAKER_01

We're excited to be here today.

Listener Question On Freeze Response

SPEAKER_00

We are. And we're going to be talking about the freeze response.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. We have a question that was sent in from a listener, and uh this will hopefully address info about the freeze response.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so we're gonna be answering this powerful question that comes from Marie in Canada. What happens when someone else's anger or upset suddenly overwhelms your nervous system?

Why The Nervous System Chooses Freeze

SPEAKER_01

So we're gonna read out the question that Marie sent right now. I am recovering from chronic fatigue-like symptoms, which I have had in various levels for the past seven years. I've learned a lot in the past three years about my nervous system and have really improved my capacity with various supports. For the past six weeks or so, I have been using Tanner's YouTube videos daily and found them to be a helpful shift in my approach at this point in my journey. I just signed up for the digital course yesterday and had a huge shift today, getting me out of freeze. I know I still have lots of learning to do, which will over time also help me with the following situation. Here's my question: What strategies might you suggest for dealing with people who unexpectedly overwhelm my nervous system? Such as when I am volunteering or in a work situation and someone unexpectedly gets upset, angry, or mean. This causes my brain to go into a freeze and shutdown response, especially if I am tired. I typically try to just listen to them because I know if I react, they will just get angrier. I learn to take care of myself and provide self-compassion afterwards, but my brain still goes quickly into shutdown in these moments. I'm wondering if there are quick first aid things to do on the spot or things to say to the person.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Marie, I think you're not alone in this. So many people, as we've said, find it really overwhelming when they get triggered by other individuals, especially when it activates that free shutdown response. And you are not to blame for this. No one is. We don't consciously control what our nervous system does. I think it's so important for people to understand that your nervous system prioritizes survival over what may be most socially acceptable or helpful at a given moment.

SPEAKER_01

So in that example, why would maybe the nervous system be choosing a freeze as like a survival method?

SPEAKER_00

So I would suspect that at some point in the past, maybe all the way back to childhood, they froze and shut down in a dangerous situation. So this is not around their example, but I'll give you just a hypothetical. Someone has an emotionally abusive parent, and they often get really angry at their child, and the child in response goes to a freeze shutdown. They go numb, they disconnect, they make themselves really small. Now, in that situation, that child might actually be safer if they do that. They might go to this place of like, you know, making themselves really small, making themselves unnoticeable, making themselves really quiet, so that parent leaves them alone. Now, what'll happen to people is now your nervous system is coded because in the past it created safety. But now, leading forward in life, your nervous system becomes wired in this way, where it just keeps producing it over and over again, even though it's no longer helpful.

Conflict Styles: Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn

SPEAKER_01

Well, and one thing I also want to say here that if you are someone listening, or for instance, Marie, and you're like, well, I don't relate to what Tanner described in my childhood, that freeze response can show up for many different reasons or experiences as that first response in keeping safety.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and sometimes I I like that you said that, Ann, because sometimes we can't really figure it out. And for some people, biologically, they just might be more prone to a freeze or shutdown response compared to fight or flight. So with the example that Marie gave, it sounds like the freeze and shutdown response is just her dominant nervous system response that has been happening. And the nervous system has now become wired to go here easily. And with her example, we're talking about social interactions with others. Where someone else is upset with you, or someone else is angry with you, or something of that nature, some type of conflict. It's just shutting her down.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I think of conflict, Tanner, and and that's already sending like that those like spidey signals into my body because I think no one likes conflict. That feels dangerous to a lot of us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it does feel dangerous. And most people don't like it. It's interesting. I have a friend of mine.

SPEAKER_01

Um you have a friend that does like it? Is that what you're gonna say?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. My my best friend, actually, who knows.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, he does like it. He thrives on conflict.

SPEAKER_00

He's he's a lawyer and and a very effective lawyer because it doesn't set off this like huge wave of dysregulation. It just doesn't. It's it's like very interesting watching him because he'll he's like the most regulated person I've ever met in the face of conflict.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I do want to say here that that isn't typically normal. He's a bit abnormal in that way.

SPEAKER_00

He would be an outlier.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

For sure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um from but for each person, back to your point, when we face conflict in relationships, some of us don't go into freezer shutdown. Some of us go into fight. We're like ready to like, you know, just attack and and argue and, you know, really dive deep into the conflict.

SPEAKER_01

You go into flight.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I do go into fight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

When me and Tanner are in conflict, he's like, shh, he's somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you can see me like he's running. When me and Ann are in conflict, it's almost like my body starts to turn away.

SPEAKER_01

Like I like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But understanding what your kind of response is is important. So taking that moment to think about it, whether you wait relate to Marie or your response is maybe a different response, and really taking a look at why is that response happening?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, exactly. And I do want to mention one other um state that people can go into is which is the fawn response. Yes. Where people are appeasing, they're keeping the peace, they're getting social approval. Lots of people during conflict and relationships, which is triggering for them, go into that response.

SPEAKER_01

Also, Tanner.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. A little bit of that, a little bit of that happening. And I want to give this message because I often hear people be like, okay, how can I make it so that I'm not triggered anymore?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

It's like, okay, well, that's not possible.

SPEAKER_01

Why not?

SPEAKER_00

Because you're human. That that is very normal. We can learn to work with them better, and we're going to talk about a skill that people can utilize when they're triggered, but you can't just eliminate them completely. I will say with practice, they become less emotionally charged.

SPEAKER_01

Ah, and I think that's what people are kind of asking for. Yeah. Is they want less, maybe, reaction, maybe to be desensitized a bit to it.

Introducing The ADDS Skill

SPEAKER_00

And that's possible. That is possible. We can desensitize a trauma trigger so it doesn't cause, you know, for Marie, the same level of freeze and shutdown. So we call this the ads skill.

SPEAKER_01

Ad skill.

SPEAKER_00

A D D S.

SPEAKER_01

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_00

The ad skill will help you restore safety with trauma triggers. So we're gonna give an imaginary example here as we go through this skill. Um loosely based off the example that Marie gave, but again, we're filling in the blanks here because we don't have all the information. Right. So let's imagine you're working at an animal shelter.

SPEAKER_01

I like that with cats and dogs.

SPEAKER_00

I know. You would I I I wrote this partly with you and mine.

SPEAKER_01

And horses.

SPEAKER_00

And are there animal shelters for horses?

SPEAKER_01

Animal horse rescue.

SPEAKER_00

Also with cats and dogs.

SPEAKER_01

Imagine that, you guys, in your mind.

Step 1: Ask Why

SPEAKER_00

You could remove the horse element if you choose. But you're you're working and you're and you're volunteering there. So you're you know being a kind person, you're volunteering your time, you're taking care of animals in need. And as you're working, someone who's your supervisor walks up to you and tells you, hey, you're not working fast enough. We're falling behind on these different tasks. That's it. That's all that happens. And then they walk away. It's kind of a short conversation, done.

SPEAKER_01

They're a bit abrupt.

SPEAKER_00

They're a bit like they're a bit abrupt, you know, they're short with you. The tone of voice might be a little bit sharp. And as a result, you have a wave of a freeze and shutdown response. What might that feel like? That could feel like your body starts to get cold. You feel a pit in your stomach, you might feel really heavy and fatigued. Maybe you get a bit of brain fog going on, or you know, you can just literally feel your body clicking off, and you're kind of like not connected to the external environment anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Does it feel like for some people to an inability to respond or speak in that situation?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. There's because for some people, they might go into fight or flight, which is going to be very different. They're either gonna attack the situation head on or run away. But this is like when you hit freeze and shut down when you're triggered, it's like you become immobilized and shut down. So there's no words, there's no action taking place to face or run away from the challenge. So, step one of the ad skill is ask why.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

Step 2: Drop In And Describe

SPEAKER_00

This is an opportunity to learn. So, in this example that we're going through, were you triggered by a particular look the person had at you? Was it their tone of voice that felt emotionless and sharp? Was it an emotional expression that they had, like they're kind of annoyed or irritated with you? Was there a certain wording or languaging that triggered you? Or when the interaction happened, was there a sensation inside that instantly felt really overwhelming? Okay, so really being curious about what went on. Yeah, you want to be asking why. Like, why is this taking place? Why do I have this free shutdown response occurring? And again, you may not know perfectly. So if you're asking why for 25, 30 minutes, you're not doing it right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, totally. It's okay if you can't really understand why.

SPEAKER_00

I've been triggered many times over the years. And only like a week later was I like, oh, that's what it was. Like sometimes we just don't know. But it is worth asking why, because they can create a bit of safety and understanding, oh, you know, the tone of voice, the look in their eye, the emotional expression reminded me of this past person that kind of bullied me. And that's why I'm really triggered right now.

SPEAKER_01

Huh. So that's an interesting point because that can help us maybe take it a bit, remove it a bit from the actual situation.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I also want to say here, it doesn't invalidate what happened in terms of like maybe it wasn't still okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it doesn't invalidate. Yeah, please people, don't invalidate yourselves. What we're trying to get here is understanding and we're trying to essentially bring perception to unconscious neurosception. Deb Dana, famous polyvagal therapist, talks about this. You're bringing conscious perception to this unconscious neurosception that detected danger in this triggering event.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And that can feel complicated because there's two pieces of the picture. There's like that unconscious piece, and then there's the actual event as well, both together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And you're asking why and trying to understand, because the understand will create safety for you. Then you move to step two. Yeah. Which is drop in and describe.

SPEAKER_01

And we use drop in and describe a lot. But it's a really important skill. And obviously, there's a lot of ways to implement it.

Step 3: Shift With Safety Signals

SPEAKER_00

There is a lot of ways. And I think this is an important piece because you're it's an opportunity to start to connect with your nervous system, understand what's happening, you're dropping into your body and you're dropping into your thoughts, and you're understanding and describing how does it feel? Are my thoughts really slow and despairing? Are my thoughts one of, oh, you know, I'm judging myself right now. I didn't do a good enough job. Are the feelings inside this chilled, heavy sinking down? And you want to get curious and drop in because this connection to the present moment of how you're feeling is what starts to move us towards healing as trauma trigger. So let's talk about how you would actually do this. You could do this in the triggering moment. So if you're in a meeting and someone says something crappy to you, or you're in a social gathering and something triggers you, if you're safe, you could drop in and describe what's the dysregulation feel like in my body.

SPEAKER_01

How might that feel when that kind of activation happens? To do that, would that be hard initially to start practicing?

SPEAKER_00

I find for a lot of people it's hard, not just because they might still be in the triggering situation, but it's difficult because people have a hard time connecting inward while they're kind of living life. But that's a very essential skill people need to learn to do. Um, like right now, I'm talking to you and I can feel sensation inside. I'm talking, but at the same time, I feel a little bit of buzziness, a little bit of energy in my chest. My shoulders are a little bit up. Like you can learn to do this as you're going about living life. And I think that's an important skill. However, for some people, they just they're not there. Or if the situation is very triggering, you're probably not going to feel safe enough to do it then. And so, if that's the case, take a break. Go to the washroom, go to your car, private office, outside, spend a couple minutes dropping in and describing how am I feeling triggered right now?

SPEAKER_01

And something I talk with people about when I'm working with them is to practice this drop and describe skill kind of all the time. And so, even when you're not being triggered and you're not going in the freeze response, just throughout your day, practice this experience of dropping into the body. It'll make it easier to access when you are triggered.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Practice out this skill outside of being triggered. Practice it when things are more mild, because it's way easier to practice any skill or strategy when a sensation is more mild to moderate, yes, compared to when it's a little bit higher. This moves us to step number three. Shift with safety signals.

SPEAKER_01

And I like that Marie's already talking about that a little bit, that she's trying to do with compassion.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, which is great. You're already ahead of the game, which is wonderful. But this is where you're trying to create safety after you've dropped in and described how you're feeling inside. And so we want to respond with safety. Safety is what heals trauma, it's what heals dysregulation over time. So you want to first off normalize the trauma trigger.

SPEAKER_01

I think that can be a hard tanner.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, because often when we are getting triggered like this, our mind can feel like, why is this happening? Something's wrong with me. What's going on?

A Personal Story Of Rejection Trigger

SPEAKER_00

People start to criticize themselves. And I want to give this message clearly. It is normal as you are healing to get triggered. And you didn't do anything wrong. Second, you may need to use strategic avoidance. Again, avoidance isn't gonna help you heal over time long term, but sometimes, like, say you dropped into described, and that freeze and shutdown response was so overwhelming, and it's just too much to handle, it's too much to attend to. You may need to go use some avoidance. So this could look like go have a warm bath, disconnect, lie down in a dark room, uh, watch a TV show and just get out of your mind. Like you could do things to just strategically avoid for a period, and then you could come back to dropping and describing and using some other safety signals.

SPEAKER_01

We call this titration. So going into it, going out of it, going into it.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. With any somatic approach that we talk about, titration is very key. Now, using safety signals, you have to think about okay, what safety signal will be most accessible for you to use in the moment? It could be deep breathing, it could be somatic movement, like going to do some yoga or qi gong. Maybe you visualize a calming person, place, or animal that brings a sense of ease to you.

SPEAKER_01

Like a horse. Like my horse. That's what I visualize. Why? I just we're at a horse rescue.

SPEAKER_00

I just had to Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless the horses were the triggering factor. And they weren't.

SPEAKER_01

Tanner, your example was a person.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just saying that might have been the reason I got triggered.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry. Keep going.

SPEAKER_00

So visualization, horse or non-horse things. Um, it could be doing some like light tapping on your chest and breathing slow. I almost just have people tap at the center of their chest nice and slow. It kind of slows things down, connects you to your body. Could be somatic touch, right? Like massaging your neck or making circles on your chest, massaging your ears. And it can be safe self-talk. Yes. Telling yourself this will pass. Being triggered is a normal part of healing. These sensations are unpleasant, but they're safe. I'm not doing anything wrong, and there's lots I can do in this moment to create some safety.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of people gravitate towards safe self-talk. Start thinking about different safety signals that you can use. Have like an array of things that you can try on. And so if you normally do safe self-talk, try maybe some of the somatic touch or different experiences.

SPEAKER_00

Try things out. For Marie, I encourage you to try different things out to see what works best to help you shift out of a freeze and shutdown response.

SPEAKER_01

And when someone's doing this, are we hoping to try to do this literally in the moment?

Gentle Activation To Exit Freeze

Practice, Capacity Building, Next Steps

SPEAKER_00

If you can. Again, you need to make sure you're safe in the situation. If you are not safe, focus on that first and getting out of that situation. So part of my trauma is being bullied when I was in junior high and high school. And as a result, a lot of the triggers that happen for me are in relationships with others. I had this experience where me and a good friend of mine had plans to go out for coffee. And I was really excited about this. This was a few months back. I was excited. This is one of my great friends. I really connect with him. I really um like hanging out with him and enjoy our time. The morning before he reached out and said, Hey, like I can't make it. Like this kid thing came up. Um, it's just not gonna be possible. We're gonna have to reschedule for a few weeks out. Instantly, this triggered a wave of, how would I describe it? Almost like numb despair. It would be in this kind of freeze. Shut down realm where I felt numb inside. I felt disconnected. I felt like this deep despair hit. I asked why, for step number one of the ad skill. And I realized, oh, I just feel rejected right now. And this is the same thing, the same feeling, the same sensations that I felt when I was in junior high. I felt rejected that my friend could not hang out, even though it was for like a reasonable reason. Like things just got too chaotic with his kids. But logic doesn't matter, right? Like it's it's interesting because trauma triggers aren't logical a lot of the time. I logically understood, oh, like he had this kid thing come up that's just not possible. But I felt very triggered inside. But it was helpful for me to ask why and realize, oh, I'm just feeling rejected right now. And this ties back to the bullying years ago. Step two, I dropped and described, I really described that freeze shutdown response in great detail. And for myself, I sat with it for probably 10 to 15 minutes, just exploring it, letting myself feel it fully. Step three, I created safety. I used soothing touch for compassion. I did some massaging of my neck. I used safe self-talk. I reminded myself, hey, I'm worthy. My friend is just a new dad. He's busy with life. He has shown me again and again that he cares about me. Um, and his actions have always showcased that. So reminding myself of that was very helpful. It made me realize, hey, like I'm actually safe. He's not rejecting me. We're rebooking. It's all gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01

Did you notice any shift from the kind of despair freeze for you?

SPEAKER_00

At first, I felt more like compassion and kindness, which helped uplift me. But I think I think then what I did is I helped wake my nervous system up more. So I went and did some Qigong practice for 10 or 15 minutes. The reason is is like if you're in freeze and shutdown, everything becomes immobilized. So like you want to slowly and gently wake your system up. So I went and did qigong for 10 or 15 minutes and it like uplifted my system. Like I got a little bit more energy going, which was helpful. So back to Marie's question. I believe, Marie, you're doing a lot of the right things. Awareness leads to healing. You're aware of your freeze and shutdown response taking place, and what are the things triggering you in your environment? That's great. Yeah. With practice, using the ad skill can make these triggers shorter and less intense.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that's important to have as a goal.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, that is the goal. And that capacity will grow over time. I've seen it time and time again with the hundreds of people we've worked with, but it's not going to happen all at once in one moment. Yeah. So it won't be instant, but all these healing moments add up. So really for all the listeners, start to consistently use that ad skill.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I agree. And I like that you frame it that everything adds up. And we want to really notice okay, what am I doing today? When am I doing tomorrow? How is this adding up?

Closing & Where To Get Support

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. If people need extra support, we have a ton of trauma practices, as well as a whole trauma process for how you can move through traumatic experiences in our digital course. And we also talk lots about triggers and how you can respond to triggers.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So if you need extra support, that's a great route to go. We also have our therapy practice for those of you living within Canada, if you need to talk this through with somebody.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, sometimes it can be helpful that one-on-one support.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So, Marie, thank you so much for the thoughtful and honest question. And for all the listeners, you know, if this episode resonated with you, just know you're not alone in this and your nervous system is not broken. Healing is about learning how to come back to safety repeatedly and consistently, just coming back to safety again and again when we feel triggered.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

So thank you everyone for listening.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_00

And we'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_01

Talk to you next time. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, Instagram, and Facebook accounts in the episode description.

SPEAKER_00

We wish you all heading up.