The Mind-Body Couple

(Revised) Why People Don't Understand Your Chronic Pain/Symptoms (And What To Do!)

• Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson

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0:00 | 30:22

We read out the kinds of comments so many listeners have heard:

 “it’s all in your head,” “just push through,” “you look fine”

We unpack why those words  spike fear, isolation when you're dealing with chronic pain and symptoms.

We share a story from early in our relationship, when a vacation we hoped would reset everything turned into a painful turning point. It’s messy and honest. We talk about how both experiences can be true at once. The person in pain deserves compassion and validation, and the supporter may also feel overwhelmed, confused, or helpless.

You’ll leave with practical communication tools you can use right away, plus a reality check about safety: when open conversation helps, and when certain relationships or providers are unlikely to change. We end with a hopeful strategy we’ve seen work again and again building a mind body team by educating the people who support you, so your recovery tools like somatic practices, graded exposure, and brain-based approaches make sense to everyone at home.

Tanner Murtagh and Anne Hampson are therapists who treat neuroplastic pain and mind-body symptoms. They are also married!

In his 20s, Tanner overcame chronic pain and a fibromyalgia diagnosis by learning his symptoms were neuroplastic, not structural. Post-healing, Tanner and Anne have dedicated their lives to developing effective treatment and education for neuroplastic pain and symptoms.

Listen and learn how to assess your own chronic pain and symptoms, gain tools to retrain the brain and nervous system, and make changes in your life and health!


The Mind-Body Couple podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen, one of the wonderful therapists at our agency in Calgary, Alberta. https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/


Tanner, Anne, and Alex also run the MBody Community, an in-depth online course that provides a step-by-step process for assessing, treating, and resolving mind-body pain and symptoms. https://www.mbodycommunity.com


Check out Tanner's YouTube channel for more free education and practices: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Fl6WaFHnh4ponuexaMbFQ


And follow us for daily education posts on Instagram: @painpsychotherapy


Disclaimer: The information provided on this podcast is for general in...

Welcome And How To Get Help

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the Mind Body Couple podcast. I'm Tanner Murtaugh and I'm Ann Hampson.

SPEAKER_01

This podcast is dedicated to helping you unlearn chronic pain and symptoms.

SPEAKER_00

If you need support with your healing, you can book in for a consultation with one of our therapists at painpsychotherapy.ca.

SPEAKER_01

Or purchase our online course at embodycommunity.com to access in-depth education, somatic practices, recovery tools, and an interactive community focused on healing. Links in the description of each episode.

The Therapist Sweater Stereotype

SPEAKER_00

Hi everybody, welcome back to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Hi everyone. For those of us watching the video today, me and Ann are both wearing our therapy sweaters.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, we are.

SPEAKER_01

These are required if you're going to be a therapist, these like long cardigans.

SPEAKER_00

You learn about it in school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You're not allowed to practice unless you have these sweaters.

SPEAKER_00

It's true, actually. Like most therapists I see have some kind of like cardigan, cozy, cozy sweater going on, that kind of look.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and whenever I'm out in public, it's funny, like if I'm at a coffee shop or something, if I see like a woman walk in with like a longer sweater, I just instantly know like you're spot, you're a therapist.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

For anyone who's wanting to identify who therapists are in the world, just look for the sweaters.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, look for the sweaters. It's true. My clients, but are like if you are my client listening to this, you're probably nodding because I think most of my clients see me in some sort of sweater.

SPEAKER_01

Anyways, that's a side note.

SPEAKER_00

Um okay, our topic is not about sweaters.

Why Feeling Unheard Hurts More

SPEAKER_00

Actually, today we actually want to talk about the fact that chronic pain is hard, but feeling unheard about pain and symptoms makes it harder.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. This is so common.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And one of the reasons people are reaching out to us for therapy, not the only, like people want to heal their pain and symptoms, but people want to feel heard. Like as human beings, like we require that for us to feel heard and understood by someone and and validated by someone.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah. And I think when I meet with somebody right off the bat, like say the consultation or the first session, that's the biggest thing I feel off of someone is that they want to be understood, they want to be heard, they want to get their story out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, because often clients are telling me they're not getting that as much as they need. They're not getting that from their loved ones, they're not getting that from medical professionals. Um, this is something that they've been struggling with.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. You know, today we're gonna really talk about this and and how you can hopefully start to shift this. But I know Anne created a bit of a list.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I'll read that list.

Common Invalidating Pain Comments

SPEAKER_00

So this is statements that I hear from clients commonly about what messaging they're getting from people in their lives. And as you're listening to this, maybe take a moment to reflect on if you relate to any of these, if these are similar to things that you've experienced as well. So often I hear clients say they're being told it's all in your head. Just push through it regarding their pain and symptoms. Don't worry, it will just go away. You look fine. Lots of people have chronic pain. You're exaggerating. Your pain levels, your pain treatments are costing us too much. Can you just get better already? I don't want to talk about your symptoms anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Really common statements. Yeah, and even as you read them, I was like, oh, sad, supporting shifting that people are from mind being told these things consistently begin from whether it's your family or like medical professional. Your gaze.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and it and it's really heavy. Like, how did you feel even hearing that back, Tanner, in terms of your own experience?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it just made me think first of all the breath. Inhaling through the nose. And it's interesting as you read the letters. Feeling your belly full of warm inhaler. I think each statement through your nose. It could kind of be stated differently depending on a person's tone of voice or how angry they are. All are still affect affecting a person with chronic pain or symptoms. But sometimes like with friends, family, medical professionals, they would almost say these things like quickly and it wasn't they were trying. I I really don't be really mean to observing validating and judgmental. All those things. And curious. They're gonna make you feel alone. Yes. They're gonna make you feel abnormal, they're gonna make you feel like you're to blame for what for your pain and symptoms. Thoughts occur. And that, as we know when it comes to neuroplastic pain, thoughts come in with danger and increase your pain and symptoms. And eventually, our podcast is really dedicated to talking about neuroplastic pain and symptoms. You were sitting on the case. So if you knew it here, what that means is there's no damage or disease in your body that's a very strong. Detaching yourself from your thoughts going by. They're occurring because your brain and nervous system has become sensitized from being stuck in this heightened state of danger. And so as you read that list, you know, all of those things are gonna make a person's going by way more uncertain in their relationships, in their larger world.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and we really wanted to use our podcast today to validate that for the person experiencing chronic pain and symptoms because it's so important to feel heard. Um, maybe in a world and system where we don't.

A Vacation Blowup That Changed Us

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to share a little bit of a story from me and Tanner's experience of this. And so um this is a memory I have that comes up often actually throughout the years. It just comes into my mind. Do they go by quickly? I think it was just really impactful for me as your spouse, Tanner. Uh Tanner doesn't know this, so this might be um what I'm gonna share. So this might be a bit of a surprise to you, Tanner.

SPEAKER_02

New story.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I don't know if it's a new one, but I don't know if you know how much this story made impact on me. Um so this was a time that Tanner was in fear, pain.

SPEAKER_01

Frustration.

SPEAKER_00

It was before we were married. So like in our a long time ago, we've been married actually for 10 years now. So um before we were married, and I think we've talked about before how we used to go to Invermir, uh, which is a few hours away from us, to uh like a rental property that Tanner's family had to spend time. And we'd often go on vacation. At this point in our relationship, all about the same topic. We were struggling with each other, we're obsessive, we were struggling to have good times. You were pretty deep into chronic pain, also struggling with your mental health. Uh and that was quite apparent. It had been really impacting our relationship. And I remember we planned this getaway. Um, and I had all these thoughts about it. I had all these hopes. I remember thinking, okay, this was going to be different. It was going to reset.

SPEAKER_01

You may not even notice that once in a while it was going to be better.

SPEAKER_00

But it latches on to you.

SPEAKER_01

And drags you down the street.

SPEAKER_00

Shared that with you. I kind of had that in my mind.

SPEAKER_01

Practice letting go of the thoughts. I was frustrated with you.

SPEAKER_00

I was frustrated with your return back.

SPEAKER_01

I was frustrated with your limitations and that we weren't able to do as much as we wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00

I felt as your partner confused and lost with how to support you. And so there was all this pressure I had on this weekend all in my mind. And I actually remember we're like driving up and I was thinking about that. And I was like, okay, this is gonna be better. And like this was this mental checklist I had in my own mind. Um and we got there, and I think we had arrived, we were kind of sitting on the couch, and I remember my hopes were dashed.

SPEAKER_01

And I don't know if they were dashed because re-examining the thoughts talking about the thoughts occurring may not be true.

SPEAKER_00

We weren't gonna do what I thought we were gonna do. Or we weren't connecting the way I thought the trip would magically make us connect. And I I think I said something at that point. Like I told you, oh, we're not connecting, or this is what I wanted to do. So I started like raising that, but I was clearly frustrated. And you just lost it. Any negative thoughts or terrible way on me.

SPEAKER_01

Has been in a state of survival.

SPEAKER_00

And you got really angry.

SPEAKER_01

You got really enraged, very distressed.

SPEAKER_00

It's been wired away. It was like you were quiet, and then you're incredibly distressed. And I remember you stood up and you started yelling. And not necessarily to harm me, like not like that, but you started yelling of like, don't you realize how hard this is for me? And you're like, don't you know how much pain I am in or a pain I'm in? And and it was like really shocking to me in some way. And I remember being really taken aback and being like, oh my God, what's almost like what's happening? When you are ready.

SPEAKER_01

We are going to practice.

SPEAKER_00

But I also it was like I was almost dumbfounded as your spouse, being like, We are not resisting our thoughts.

SPEAKER_01

Because this just creates more negative thinking.

SPEAKER_00

And it really made me almost hit me over the head of like, oh my gosh. And you were like in incredible distress.

SPEAKER_01

See if you can begin to treat your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00

And and but I remember it was like this turning point for me being like, oh my gosh. I actually understand Tanner's experience.

SPEAKER_01

No one really focuses on them.

SPEAKER_00

And I get emotional thinking about it because it was really heavy. And and it wasn't that my thoughts were wrong or your thoughts were wrong. It's just that I think I realized I didn't know what you were going through. And I wasn't validating it, and you were in very difficult pain. Do you remember that? Like we might have had a couple of times, like that's for the years of. I don't know if you remember that exactly.

SPEAKER_01

I do remember that trip.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you do?

SPEAKER_01

I don't have a recollection of that specific freakout that I had. I don't remember that. But I do remember that trip. For the listeners, the context was I had actually gone to the city. Scan your body before. From head to toe.

SPEAKER_00

So I was like, It's funny because I don't actually remember all those details. Like I remember the actual thing.

SPEAKER_01

I went off work about a month before. A fight or flight because the pain was too high. Or any dorsal vagal sensor.

SPEAKER_00

Which is interesting because like I don't remember those details now. But I probably knew them then. But I still I still had trouble grasping what you were going through, even though there was all these signs of how difficult it was.

SPEAKER_01

And I Yeah, and I think it's I do remember that, and it is emotional because I remember that trip was terrible. Um not specifically because of you. I just remember, like I remember probably being more depressed than I've ever felt. Allow yourself at that point. Like it was like I remember later in that trip probably in the last couple of days. I remember going and like lying in bed. I don't remember like we did something during the day, right? And I was in like a lot of pain and I went and lied in bed. And I do have a memory of being like, I have never felt this bad physically and emotionally. Like this is like the low. Um and to be honest, I don't know if they I don't know if anything there there's very few moments in my life that would probably be worse than that. Also notice. And so if any emotional taking choice within because in any relationship, we all make assumptions.

Assumptions And Loneliness In Relationships

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right? Like we I assume to know what you're thinking about or feeling, and you assume you know what I'm thinking about or feeling. But I think just in general, part of the loneliness that can happen from the human experience is like no matter how much time you spend with someone or how much you share, practice, like there is a distance. There always will be some level of disposition of like understanding that person's inner world. And I think it's interesting because it's funny because me and me and Anne have gone to couples counseling like way in the past, and I remember one of the counselors being like, I've never found a couple that communicate as much as you and Ann. So like I just I'm saying that for the listeners to understand that like me and Anne are probably in like an outlier position of how much we communicate. Probably a little bit less when I was still. But still way more than most of the nervous system. I would probably say.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so even for us, like, and I did feel that way. I felt like not just from you, but from my friends, from my parents, from the my doctors that I was seeing. There was this feeling of like they don't get it. You know, like there was that like that deeper feeling of like I don't know what to say to have them get it. Yes. Allow yourself. And I think that's where I would have these helpers. Or hands. Because I remember just feeling like you or anyone else. It was more of like you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I think in that moment I described I realized that there was so much going on that I just didn't understand. And but still I had that part of me that was still frustrated. And that piece as the spouse or of the person in your life, that part was still there. And so I had to, I think I had to learn how to reconcile both, how to try to understand, but also honor my own emotions or my own experience, um, which is a whole nother podcast in itself, really. And when you think about like loved ones or support people, but but I also learned in that moment that I needed to try to understand. Like that was important.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was like a moment.

SPEAKER_00

It was a moment, and also that there's so like with a sense of it made me remember, oh, things are hard to do.

SPEAKER_01

Allow your breath.

SPEAKER_00

And I think I could keep going along my life while you're in pain.

SPEAKER_01

The sense of the thing.

SPEAKER_00

Because maybe I didn't quite understand or try and forget the difficulty that you're experienced.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Both Partners’ Feelings Can Be True

SPEAKER_01

And I would say that that's very true. And what I what I want to touch on in what you said is that your feelings are valid too. Yes. Because I think sometimes this may be an unpopular opinion that I'm about to say. But you know, when you're the one suffering with chronic pain or symptoms, continue to explain. We do feel like the sensation is occurring in your body. And that's a valid feeling, of course. Like the focusing on your thoughts. To focus back, careful, not to be told those things that you listed off at the beginning. Of course, yeah. But it's hard it's a hard pill to swallow that like the people supporting you are still gonna feel things about this.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Because it's like the pain, and it wasn't because of me, it's not to blame, and I didn't see that at the time, like I had a lot of self-blame around my chronic pain. Um in in these types of moments. Like I think part of the anger is it was just the fact that like, oh, I'm like, I'm wrecking ants life and I don't know what the heck to do about that. Yeah, right. So in your body, yeah. Um notice where you are feeling present. It's important for people to understand like sensations. You're not to blame for your pain and symptoms. But we can almost externalize the pain and symptoms and understand they are affecting other people in our life. It's like they affected our relationship in a very negative way. They affected our finances, they affected like what we could do together, how we could connect. And for me to expect, oh, Anne should just go with it and support me no matter what, it's like, yeah, sure, you should support me, but it's like you're still valid, like your feelings are still valid.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I think it was confusing for me as well.

SPEAKER_01

If you were having troubles finding a present or neutral sensation, just fix it away.

SPEAKER_00

Like I thought the weekend would be magical, it'd be this reset, which is really common for couples to think. You know, you go on vacation, you have a reset. Your touch creates. And and would fix it for both of us. But then in that, I realized I was really dismissing everything that you were going through and like almost making it really little. Um and then I couldn't help but have those thoughts that were like, ugh, like let's move on from this.

SPEAKER_01

Like Yeah. Yeah. And and this, you know, even as we're talking about right now, I'm thinking in my mind, like, ooh, this is messy. This is this is messy stuff because it is messy.

SPEAKER_00

It's complicated and messy.

Clear Requests Instead Of Mind Reading

SPEAKER_01

And I think it could be important on to drawing what you and I know. If we went back in time when I was in pain. I don't really want to go back to when I was in pain, but if we went back in time, like what would we do differently?

SPEAKER_00

And oh, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_01

I think because that's it.

SPEAKER_00

It's like the person who's having chronic pain or symptoms, like we want to feel heard, validated, and I think about this list and just pulling it up again. Like some of the things I said is all in your head that people are hearing just come through. Don't worry, it will go away. Like, I am horrified by this list that I gave you some of that messaging. And so if I go back in time, I would never want to give you that messaging, even though maybe my frustration was valid.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And you're right, like anyone who supported symptoms, I've probably said things. It sucks to say pleasant or neutral sensation. But I think we can while we're healing from neuroplastic pain and symptoms, we can start to change the way we function in relationships to support both parties. Yes. And it's like I can't I can't expect and to know what words are stinging me.

SPEAKER_00

Ah.

SPEAKER_01

And so I'd love to expect more bigger things people should have insight. But probably don't. But I think if I went back in time, I would be a much more condition of like, hey, when you say this line, or when you say just ignore it, or when you say just push through it, uh, or it's all gonna be fine, we're gonna have a good holiday. Like when you say that stuff, it makes me feel like you don't understand what I'm dealing with. Like that was never stated.

SPEAKER_00

No, we didn't really hide that.

SPEAKER_01

And the muscles and your face. For the person who has pain and symptoms, you can't expect the people around you to be mind readers. Yes. They're not going to be. They they need you need to communicate clearly with them what it is you need them to stop saying and what it is you need them and your shoulders.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I think as as the other person in the relationship, once we had that experience on our trip, I was much more willing to take your experience. Oh your arm and the trying to make sure you're hair. So even though that felt overwhelming and it was a bit explosive, and um and there's a lot of high emotions, like it wasn't an easy time, obviously, for you, it was not a good trip as well. Um, we needed that to kind of so I could get more understanding. So I'm not saying like blow up your ears like that. I'm saying that that kind of deep, honest communication is important in this.

SPEAKER_01

It is. There needs to be that honesty, and it will be emotional.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The conversation that I'm asking the listeners to have right now, that will be emotional.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I needed that. And so finally how emotionally distressed you were tender. Yeah and unconsciously, and again, we're not, you know, make sure you're safe in your relationships to be this open and honest, of course. Um, but I think when you were going along, kind of not telling me about what was happening, I kind of forgot. And I was like, oh, he's fine now. It's fine, let's move on. Like I didn't. It was hard for me to stay in your pain because I wasn't in it. And it doesn't mean that we always have to be you always have to be in it together. Have a natural rhythm. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Of focusing back. The key there is both people are experiencing. Yeah. It's an emotional conversation, but it's like as I shut down more and more, I did not express to you what I was going through. Teaching your nervous pain and my mental health. You were safe. I just didn't. There was clear signs like externally, but like there wasn't, I wasn't clear in my communication. So how could I expect you to understand if I'm, you know, not doing that? And vice versa. It's like you weren't expressing what you're going through in all of this.

SPEAKER_00

No, and I had, and I think this is common for other partners, like I had this like of what we're getting have been. I started to express it, but I had those long hopes and pressures about our trip long before. Like it had gone up to a boiling point for me when it wasn't happening how I wanted it to happen. So communication more consistently would have helped us.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The other thing when I think back, and this is outside of our relationship.

When Relationships Aren’t Safe

SPEAKER_01

Um but people need to assess the relationships that they're in. And I mean with like partners, families, and medical acquirers.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, why do you returning?

SPEAKER_01

Because the advice we're giving right now and that we just gave is like, oh yeah, you need more open communication. Both parties need to be sharing what they're going through, obviously sharing that in like a respectful, caring way. But you need to assess what relationships are actually safe for you to be doing this. Now, yes, sometimes it's like very toxic abuse, which is terrible. Um like open communication is not going to be safe in those situations. But I also think it's uh farther down the spectrum from like toxic abuse to more you know, people just haven't really shown that they care that much about you, they're disinterested in how you're suffering. They always kind of say slight, mean comments to you. Like those people, no matter how much communication, you're probably not gonna change. And so, yeah, I remember there was a few physios I went and saw. Terrible bedside matter. It's awful.

SPEAKER_00

Um What was it like for you? Like, do you remember some of the things they said?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like I remember feeling angry. Like, I remember the the one guy, he was this like kind of old school physiotherapist. I only went to see him because my main physio was like on vacation for three weeks, right? Which was very stressful. And I remember when I walked in, um, and I was trying to express to him, like, yeah, I'm like widespread pain. It's been about three years, um, not getting better. I'm struggling to like walk more than 10 minutes, like basically bedbound. That's that's where I'm at. And he was just kind of like, he was like, You're a young guy. You can just like go do it, you'll be fine. Like, there were like comments like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And then he like I remember that. Actually, I actually remember you telling me stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

And like, and he did this like stretch routine where like my body was just overwhelmed, like it was too much, and I told him how sensitive I was. Like he was just like very invalidating of like, you're a young guy, get over it.

SPEAKER_00

When you left that session tenor, like, how did you feel about your plan moving forward?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I just felt I remember at that point, you know, I I couldn't even get angry. I just felt like despair and like critical of myself. Yeah. So it's like people like that, there's no point in having more communication with them. It's not gonna improve things. So there are lines here, like me and Anne are saying, like in safer relationships where someone is just misunderstanding what's going on and they're willing and they have some insight and they're willing to change, that's great. Do what me and Ann are talking about today. But if you have these people that are on that on that spectrum of abusive, that's probably not going to change unless that individual gets a whole lot of self-insight and therapy.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and it's true. And sometimes we need to take a look at the people that we have in our lives and can we feel heard with them or how can we get that peace in there? Because when we think of, you know, back to our title of this podcast, when we're not feeling heard, it makes pain and symptoms much worse. And so we want to feel heard within our journey. We need that safety.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And specifically, the thing the point that I want to end on today, uh, because we've talked about this actually in our in our new big project, we had a whole section

Build A Mind Body Support Team

SPEAKER_01

on this. Yeah. Um you need to get people on your mind-body team.

SPEAKER_00

So, like, and not just professionals, professionals, but yeah, but like friends and family.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I felt greatly supportive when I was healing because you took the time to listen, understand the science, read some of Dr. Sarno's books, like that felt incredibly supportive and like connecting to me. And like that was very useful. And so there's so much free content now. And so ask the people that are supporting you, whoever they are, if they could watch just these five videos or listen to these five podcasts, because like that's gonna create a feeling of supportiveness and connectedness, and then they know oh, this is why they're doing what they're doing, this is why they're meditating 30 minutes a day, this is why they're journaling, this is why, you know, like it it builds such great understanding.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I remember that, and and we got to this place kind of when you were working on the healing journey. So past that incident that we described, I remember having that understanding of what you're doing and why. Then I was able to support you better. I felt like I was in it more with you, and those frustrations I had of like, oh, just get over it, this obsession I also had of trying to just fix it, that kind of quieted it down for me as a spouse. And so, and that was really important because I could be a part of helping you with that journey. That was a huge turning place for us.

SPEAKER_01

It was it was a big, like I felt like we were in it together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that was like compared to where we were at on that holiday, yeah, night and day.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And, you know, I think not to give me an Ann too much credit here, I think that kind of just happened naturally. Like we sort of just like basically get hopeful together and bought in together to to this idea of neuroplastic pain and using a brain-based approach. But yeah, like I would strongly recommend hey, if you have people around you that are safe and you know supportive, you're just miscommunicating. I would strongly recommend get them involved in your healing in whatever way they're willing. Right? Yeah, I've had couples meditate together, start to do some like graded exposure to movement together, like start to like read the books together and discuss them. Like that's gonna be very helpful in terms of being feeling heard and feeling validated.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure.

Therapy Options And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_00

And even at our clinic Pain Psychotherapy Canada, we do also work with spouses individually on a therapy basis as well. And so that's something that we provide. Um, and also can be helpful because I know what it's like to be that partner, and as we said, it's not an easy journey either.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, I hope this episode was helpful for everyone.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we hope so.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and uh we'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_00

Talk to you next time. Thanks for listening. For more free content, check out the links for our YouTube channel, Instagram, and Facebook accounts in the episode description.

SPEAKER_01

We wish you all healing.