Episode 125: Turning the World Right Side Up

In this episode of Further, Brenton and Chris trace how the early church grew from a few thousand believers into the most influential movement of its time. They look at Acts 2:42 and discuss how faithful teaching, persecution, adoption, generosity, and unity fueled the spread of the gospel. Chris unpacks the balance between God’s holiness and His love, pointing to the cross as the perfect display of both. Together they explore Jesus’ command to love one another within the church, what that means for evangelism, and how to handle conflict in a biblical way. The conversation closes with a look at Peter’s zeal, his failure, and the encouragement that God still works through imperfect people.

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Transcript

Brenton
 Welcome back to Further. I am Bretton Grimm. Chris Carr, how you doing?

[00:01:53:10 - 00:01:56:13]
Chris
 Pretty good. Looking forward to a good week. How about you?

[00:01:56:13 - 00:02:02:10]
Brenton
 Yeah, we're doing this on a Monday morning, so it's a little out of the ordinary. So all right.

[00:02:02:10 - 00:02:07:13]
Chris
 If I'm not on top of my game, it's the Sunday hangover. True.

[00:02:08:14 - 00:02:10:11]
Chris
 But we'll give it a good shot here.

[00:02:10:11 - 00:02:24:03]
Brenton
 Yeah. All right. So you began by talking about the growth of the church in the first century. And you said that it went from a few thousand people to the most predominant religion in just a few centuries.

[00:02:25:08 - 00:02:35:05]
Brenton
 And about this, you referenced Acts 2.42, which says, "And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread, and the prayers."

[00:02:37:07 - 00:02:48:10]
Brenton
 Can you give us-- I'm curious if you can just kind of give us a quick church history lesson here. How did that happen in three centuries? What was going on in that time?

[00:02:50:07 - 00:03:22:02]
Chris
 Yeah, I mean, certainly not a church historian expert by any stretch of the imagination. But a few things I can share. The book of Acts details some of this for us, and how through the apostles and then largely through the apostle Paul specifically in the last half of the book, we just see the gospel go almost all over the Roman empire and churches being established,

[00:03:23:02 - 00:03:45:07]
Chris
 the gospel being preached, people coming to faith. And we see it go into very influential city centers like Ephesus. That was actually Paul's kind of method, was to go to a different region and to pick out the major population center of the most influential city. And that was true from Ephesus. We're actually told that.

[00:03:46:08 - 00:05:10:04]
Chris
 From Ephesus, Paul was there for three years, and the gospel went all over Asia from there. Not just from him, but people would come and be saved. And then they would leave and go back to their home or move somewhere else. And they would take the gospel with them. And so it wasn't just Paul. Obviously, we see Peter doing that specifically too. But we see guys like Barnabas and other of the apostles, including some of the deacons like Philip, and going and taking the gospel in different places. But what we also know is that the early church was persecuted in a very great way and had the opposite effect of what the Roman authorities and the Jewish authorities intended. And that actually caused the church to grow. And so there's an old saying, I don't remember who first said it, but it's the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. And that actually was the truth for the first several centuries. The first, I think, from what I understand, it was basically the first two centuries or first century and a half where the church really struggled. And at times it looked like it was close to being snuffed out from all the persecution. But then the tide eventually got turned.

[00:05:11:10 - 00:05:34:00]
Chris
 One significant part is there was a plague that came to Rome and all the people who could get out of the city left the city, except for the Christians were said to stay and they took care of the sick. And so that actually had a very big impact on people saying, okay, there's something different here.

[00:05:35:12 - 00:05:49:14]
Chris
 We also know that Christians were big into adoption. And so the abortion of those days in the Roman empires, basically the baby was born, and then you just go take them and leave the babies somewhere if you didn't want them.

[00:05:50:14 - 00:06:21:04]
Chris
 And it happened quite a bit. And the Christians actually are known to, they would actually, so it would happen at night because you want to do it under the cover of darkness. And the Christians would go out early in the morning and looking for babies and they would take them in and they would adopt them. Well, when you have big families and you disciple them, and so the Christians are having kids, a lot of kids, and they are adopting kids. And so you kind of, this actually happens at harmonies.

[00:06:21:04 - 00:06:22:04]
 (Laughing)

[00:06:23:08 - 00:06:36:13]
Chris
 Big on adoption, foster care. And so the church just grows like that. And so I think for us to understand that persecution, actually generally speaking,

[00:06:37:13 - 00:06:57:13]
Chris
 over the history of the church has actually led to the church growing. We actually see that even today in the non-Western world. And so you take all of those things that I just mentioned and a lot more, but they were bold,

[00:06:58:19 - 00:07:04:22]
Chris
 they were fearless, and they really did have a unique kind of love and commitment to the Lord.

[00:07:06:07 - 00:07:29:07]
Chris
 And then overflowing from that, from one another. And so eventually it gets to the point where there are just so many Christians and it's so influential that the tide turned. And then, and we don't know if Constantine was a true convert or not. There's a lot of questions about that, if it was just political expediency.

[00:07:30:14 - 00:07:39:20]
Chris
 But yeah, it became essentially the official religion of the Roman Empire, which we could have a long discussion about whether that ended up being a good thing or not.

[00:07:40:23 - 00:07:49:19]
Chris
 But it did show how the world really was changed through those things we see in Acts 2 42.

[00:07:49:19 - 00:07:56:10]
Brenton
 Yeah, yeah, so it was, it spread through just living a faithful Christian life, right?

[00:07:56:10 - 00:08:01:15]
Chris
 Yeah, I mean, we could also talk about generosity. They were known for being incredibly generous.

[00:08:03:13 - 00:08:24:09]
Chris
 And it's kind of interesting, they kind of walked, they knew how to walk the line of we're gonna be generous with our money, but we're not gonna be generous with our bed.

[00:08:25:12 - 00:09:02:03]
Chris
 And so there's actually a quote, another quote that says, and this was an accusation against the Christians, is that they share their table with all, but their bed with none. And what the point was is they believed in one man and one woman for a lifetime and sex is the reserve for the marriage between one man and one woman. They held to that. That was not the, as much as that's not the view today, it was not the view at all in the Roman Empire. And they shared their table with all with means that they basically the class, this idea of classes,

[00:09:03:16 - 00:09:19:13]
Chris
 and we only eat with people of a certain class or certain ethnicity or whatever that. So they, the church and they stroke, obviously the church struggle with this because we see this throughout the New Testament, like this, the Jewish Gentile divide and all of that.

[00:09:20:22 - 00:09:34:05]
Chris
 But it was seen that in many cases, they actually got finally got the teaching that we see laid out, especially like Paul in Ephesians chapter two.

[00:09:35:12 - 00:09:49:22]
Chris
 And just like where the church there is no divide. There's not to be any divide in social status or ethnicity or even male and female in terms of like,

[00:09:50:23 - 00:10:01:04]
Chris
 and Paul talks about the singleations three that we're all wanting one in Christ. And so that actually made a big deal because it was compelling. Like this is just different.

[00:10:02:14 - 00:10:09:04]
Chris
 And it wasn't compelling to everybody because some people will react very negatively, but yeah.

[00:10:09:04 - 00:10:14:18]
Brenton
 Yeah, yeah. I'm sure there's a lot of lessons that we should learn from that today too of,

[00:10:15:21 - 00:10:24:07]
Brenton
 first of all being faithful in what God's told us to do, but also being counter-cultural will actually have good results eventually.

[00:10:24:07 - 00:10:25:04]
Chris
 Yeah.

[00:10:25:04 - 00:10:33:06]
Brenton
 All right. Yeah, thanks for that. Much of your sermon was based on God's holiness and his love.

[00:10:34:23 - 00:10:40:03]
Brenton
 There's been a lot of discussion over the years of these two attributes.

[00:10:41:16 - 00:10:46:17]
Brenton
 How do we balance these things? So some movements have focused on God's love alone,

[00:10:47:18 - 00:10:51:20]
Brenton
 leaving out his holiness and justice while others only speak about judgment.

[00:10:52:22 - 00:10:56:17]
Brenton
 What would you say the danger is in each of those two ditches?

[00:10:59:03 - 00:11:03:23]
Chris
 This is kind of a fundamental question, right? I mean,

[00:11:05:02 - 00:11:25:12]
Chris
 and it's a place where we see the need for that word and is such an important word and concept. And the longer I'm in ministry and the longer I live the Christian life, the more I'm coming to understand how important it is

[00:11:26:13 - 00:12:06:02]
Chris
 to know how to live, kind of walk that line. And I don't know if balance is the right word, but I've used the term nuance, but that and there is, it's not either or, it's both and. And if it's just God's holiness and God of judgment, well, then we walk around just feeling condemned and having to live or have to live, but certainly we have something hanging over us all the time.

[00:12:07:12 - 00:12:44:21]
Chris
 And it also makes us, we feel judged and so we will end up being judgmental. And so, and that's just the reality that many of us have experienced. And on the other hand, if God has just got a love, then we can do whatever we wanna do, right? And he loves us the way that we are. And what we mean by that is he doesn't demand any change from us. And so his holiness demands that we change

[00:12:47:03 - 00:13:01:22]
Chris
 and his love though empowers that change. And I think that's maybe a good way to understand it is like, yeah, he doesn't sin has to be addressed. For sure.

[00:13:03:06 - 00:13:14:17]
Chris
 And so if it's just all love, then like God's got a love. And so I actually get to be God in that scenario cause I get to decide what I'm gonna do and how I'm gonna live.

[00:13:16:22 - 00:13:33:18]
Chris
 And so on the other hand, if God's just got holiness, then I don't know that it's possible to love a God who is just a holy God. It's certainly possible to be afraid of him

[00:13:35:03 - 00:13:50:13]
Chris
 and to live in fear of him. But can you love him? Can your heart get around loving a God that doesn't love you? And we might say, well, you ought to love God. Okay, for sure, for sure.

[00:13:51:18 - 00:14:15:22]
Chris
 His holiness is something to love. For sure. To love, like it's an admirable trait for sure. But in your heart, are you actually able to love someone? And I think this is, I think it's true in 1 John 4, 9 and 19, we love because he first loved us. Our love is a reciprocal love. And so if we are not loved,

[00:14:17:09 - 00:14:30:20]
Chris
 I don't think we actually have the ability to love, which is actually in some ways the whole point that I was trying to make in the second half of the message is like we have to have an experience of his love to be loved.

[00:14:32:04 - 00:14:54:16]
Brenton
 Well, and I think you did a good job of pulling that back to the cross is where we see both of those things displayed. And you've even brought up Romans 3 where he is the just and the justifier. And so I think that's a perfect example of balancing those two correctly. Yeah. He still demands justice, but he's the one that offers the justice as well.

[00:14:54:16 - 00:14:55:05]
Chris
 Yeah,

[00:14:56:09 - 00:15:18:15]
Chris
 it was already long yesterday. So I was in danger of anytime Romans 3, that just and justifier passage comes up, it's always in danger of here's another message. Because I think if I had one passage that you said, what is the most important passage in the entire- Desert island verse.

[00:15:18:15 - 00:15:20:10]
Brenton
 What else? What else is your desert island verse?

[00:15:20:10 - 00:15:36:06]
Chris
 Yeah, well, but it's if, there are a lot of important passages. I mean, like key passages, but if you like, hey, you get one, like you said, this desert island, it's theirs. And starting in 323,

[00:15:38:02 - 00:15:46:01]
Chris
 we have all sinned, if all short of the glory of God, but are then justified by His grace as a gift.

[00:15:47:09 - 00:15:59:23]
Chris
 And God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement or as a propitiation so that he could be just and the justifier of those who have faith in Christ Jesus. And so, like, that's it right there.

[00:16:01:02 - 00:16:02:20]
Brenton
 Yeah, yep, that's good.

[00:16:04:06 - 00:16:26:17]
Brenton
 You made the point that Jesus calls us to love believers more than we love others. This comes from verses 34 and 35, which says, "A new commandment I give to you that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this, all people will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another."

[00:16:28:17 - 00:16:41:11]
Brenton
 Can you start by just kind of expanding on this a little more? What does this practically look like, to love people in the church more than people outside the church?

[00:16:44:06 - 00:16:44:13]
Chris
 Yeah,

[00:16:45:15 - 00:17:37:01]
Chris
 I didn't get into really much of the practicality or the application of this, but I just, I think that that means that the churches are priority in terms of, "Yeah, this is where I need to first and foremost, pour my life into and my energy into, in terms of the people in the local church that God has called me to be a part of." And that probably sounds a little bit strange to some, but I just think, you know, that's what Jesus is talking about. I think that the New Testament, when we rightly understand this, bears it out, is yeah, we're to certainly love our neighbors and to love our enemies.

[00:17:38:05 - 00:17:48:17]
Chris
 And we are to share the gospel. We're to be evangelists. We're to minister to the poor. And yet those all honestly,

[00:17:49:20 - 00:18:08:21]
Chris
 I think again, if we rightly understand the New Testament, they take somewhat of a backseat to loving one another. And it's not like these are mutually exclusive. I think like you can do both at many times at the same time. It's not like, you know, it's either or.

[00:18:10:23 - 00:18:14:22]
Chris
 But again, it's a new commandment, right?

[00:18:16:11 - 00:18:46:12]
Chris
 And the new commandment is not love your enemies. It's not love your neighbors. It's the new is like, it's the people. And so we just see this over and over again. And Paul and Peter say things like, above all, keep loving one another, like the biggest thing. And so that 1 Corinthians 13 passage that is often used like at weddings and stuff like that, which is okay, whatever, but it's actually about loving people in the church.

[00:18:47:22 - 00:18:57:05]
Chris
 It's not a catch all general. It's like, the Corinthians were not doing this. And so, you know, 1 John,

[00:18:58:13 - 00:19:03:17]
Chris
 in his letter, he elaborates on a lot of these things in John 13 through 17.

[00:19:05:15 - 00:19:12:01]
Chris
 And love is a key one of them. So it's just like recognizing like,

[00:19:14:13 - 00:19:18:17]
Chris
 the church I part of is not just an activity that I go to once a week.

[00:19:20:17 - 00:19:26:19]
Chris
 It's just not an affiliation. Like this is my life. That like, this is life. These are my people.

[00:19:28:22 - 00:19:37:00]
Chris
 And again, I mean, you don't have people outside of the church. Not saying that at all, but we have a special responsibility. So.

[00:19:37:00 - 00:20:11:22]
Brenton
 Well, I think one of the push backs to this would maybe be like, you maybe lose out on evangelism if you're focusing inward, right? You're no longer focusing outward. But I think that that's kind of talked about by Jesus here when he says, by this, all people will know that you are my disciples. That the way that others outside of the church see us is in large part shaped by how we treat each other, right? And so that is the hope that that would in some way draw them in passively, right?

[00:20:11:22 - 00:21:22:13]
Chris
 Well, and I think we want to invite people into that. It's not like it's the, and here's where the church can, and often has got itself in the trouble. It's like, we're kind of the country club mentality. Like this is our club and like, it's us. And we want to be welcoming and we want to invite people into that so that, and we could talk about this in terms of like worship and things like that. It's like, we want people to be able to see the power of God on display. And that's only gonna happen as we are welcoming and inviting and trying to include them in that. So again, it's not like us for no more shut the door thing, the old thing. It's let's prioritize that as we welcome people. And we say like, this is one of the great things about City of Hope with our people going and serving together there and their ministry to the community and things. And this is perfectly on display. We're doing it together.

[00:21:23:17 - 00:22:00:00]
Chris
 And that could be community groups where, and I know we have community groups with unbelievers. Many of our community groups have unbelievers. And that's fantastic. We want to see that our student ministry, we have kids that come every week who are unbelievers and we're welcoming and inviting people. The services, why do we share the gospel? Almost like every Sunday very specifically is because we know and we want unbelievers to come into their service. But again, we want them when they come to experience something different and it's not just the word of God being proclaimed. It's actually the word of God being lived out.

[00:22:02:04 - 00:22:21:05]
Brenton
 So one thing that when we talk about love in our body, one thing that's gonna have to get confronted is conflict in our body, right? So what does this mean for members of our body who are currently in conflict? Like what steps need to be taken in that situation to resolve it?

[00:22:21:05 - 00:22:24:01]
Chris
 Well, this is a nice general question. I know.

[00:22:27:00 - 00:22:43:13]
Chris
 I'll give you a specifics. Well, yeah, I'm sure you could. Well, actually you don't need to because I have plenty of examples of it. But it's actually, this is kind of hard to answer without specifics. But Jesus, Matthew 18,

[00:22:44:16 - 00:22:57:11]
Chris
 and Paul, especially in the letter, the Corinthians, gives us some very specific steps for how to deal with and address conflict.

[00:22:58:12 - 00:23:00:20]
Chris
 And maybe I'll just give a quick rundown.

[00:23:02:09 - 00:23:13:05]
Chris
 One thing, and this actually comes from the book of Proverbs, not from Jesus or Paul, but Proverbs says, "It's a glory to a man, to a person to overlook an offense."

[00:23:14:11 - 00:23:16:07]
Chris
 And what that means is that if we can overlook

[00:23:19:03 - 00:23:28:10]
Chris
 somebody's offense to us, we ought to overlook it. And 1 Peter 4 says, "Above all, keep loving one another, for love covers a multitude of sins."

[00:23:29:12 - 00:23:54:01]
Chris
 And that doesn't mean we're hiding it. It just means like our default setting is, I'm gonna think the best of this person, and I'm not gonna allow little things to get in the way of our relationship. Now, there are certainly quite a few things that shouldn't be overlooked. And we could talk about the logistics of what that can look like too.

[00:23:55:09 - 00:24:59:19]
Chris
 And the rule is like, if it's still bothering you 24 hours later, then you probably, you're not in a place to overlook it. So then we go to Matthew 18, where Jesus says, if your brother sins against you, you go to him, just the two of you. And so you have a conversation about it. And this is where I'm going, I know I'm all over the place. I'm including a lot of different things. And this is where the beatitude of blessed are the peacemakers, not peace breakers and not peace fakers, peacemakers. So you're going to the person, you're gonna have a conversation with them, and you're not gonna do it angrily or in a spirit of accusation, but you're also not gonna pretend that everything's okay. So let's have a conversation. And then Jesus says, if you can't, that doesn't get resolved, then you get other people involved. And there's some different aspects to that. And then if that can't get resolved that way, then we bring it to the church. We interpret that as the leaders of the church. And so you just kind of walk through

[00:25:00:21 - 00:25:43:17]
Chris
 the process there. But what we don't wanna do is we don't want to allow that conflict to turn into a root of bitterness. And Paul actually talks about that quite a bit as well, where if it's bothering us and we're hanging onto it, then we gotta have a conversation. And this is where like, I can't speak strongly enough about this. This is where so many problems in the church actually bloom come from, is that people get their feelings hurt. And sometimes it's rightly, sometimes it's wrongly, but regardless those feelings are hurt. And then we don't do anything about it. And that's sure to go wrong.

[00:25:45:10 - 00:25:53:11]
Chris
 And so, yeah, I've given a lot there, but it is the,

[00:25:54:21 - 00:26:07:01]
Chris
 you know, Paul says in Ephesians four, be angry and do not sin. Don't let the sun go down on your wrath. So it's okay to be angry, but we gotta be careful that we don't have unrighteous anger. James talks about that.

[00:26:08:07 - 00:26:17:05]
Chris
 But the key part I wanna get to is don't let this sun go down on your wrath. And this is a great principle for any relationship.

[00:26:18:17 - 00:26:30:20]
Chris
 Marriage particularly is like, you can't let that anger, that hurt linger because what Paul goes on to say is, because when you do, you're giving the devil a foothold.

[00:26:32:05 - 00:26:40:15]
Chris
 That's literally what he goes on to say in that passage. And the problem with the devil is when he does, he's never content with a foothold. He wants it all.

[00:26:43:06 - 00:27:13:20]
Chris
 So yeah, we could probably do a whole episode on this, but I just can't encourage people enough. There are a lot of times where we need to overlook because it's something that's not worth getting bothered by and we just need to cover it with love. But then there are a lot of times as well where it's a significant thing that has hurt us. And so we need to have a conversation about it.

[00:27:13:20 - 00:27:36:23]
Brenton
 Yeah, yeah. Well, I think just functionally in a church this large, like there is those situations. I think it's easy to maybe just avoid a person for a while, right? If you're bothered or whatever, but I think if we're gonna take this command seriously from Jesus, like we need to take conflict resolution seriously too and be in communion with our brothers and sisters.

[00:27:36:23 - 00:27:42:02]
Chris
 Well, the last thing I'll say on this is this is a matter of spiritual maturity.

[00:27:43:08 - 00:27:52:18]
Chris
 Spiritually mature people do not run too constantly and conflict or run away from conflict.

[00:27:53:18 - 00:27:55:10]
Chris
 There's this is this and again.

[00:27:56:23 - 00:28:20:22]
Chris
 And I mean, we're not running like we want to have conflict. We're also not, when it's there, we're not gonna run from it. We're gonna say, okay, this is an opportunity. It's actually an opportunity. Nobody thinks about conflict as an opportunity, but the Bible tells us that actually it's an opportunity, it's opportunity. And I'm quoting a book called "The Peacemaker" now. It's opportunity to bring glory to God.

[00:28:22:21 - 00:28:30:13]
Chris
 This is opportunity to serve other people and it's an opportunity to help you to actually grow in your faith.

[00:28:32:01 - 00:28:42:08]
Brenton
 So Peter insists in verse 37 that he will lay down his life for Jesus, only for Jesus to predict his denial right after that.

[00:28:43:13 - 00:28:54:15]
Brenton
 What can we learn from this interaction? Is there a connection between Jesus' teaching and unloving one another directly right before he predicts Peter's denial?

[00:28:56:10 - 00:29:03:15]
Chris
 Well, it is interesting. I think that Peter just seems to completely ignore what Jesus has said about loving one another.

[00:29:04:16 - 00:29:48:08]
Chris
 And it's that focuses on Jesus saying, I'm gonna go away. And so he's thinking about himself, it seems to be as like, I'm going with you. Like I'm with you to the end of the line. Like I'm gonna be there. And like Jesus has just made this seemingly really big statement, like a new commandment. And you would think like, oh, new, okay. And maybe that's something I ought to pay attention to. And he just seems to completely blow by it. And I think it's a good warning for us that Peter's thinking about what he can do for Jesus instead of really,

[00:29:50:00 - 00:29:51:21]
Chris
 of course, and we gotta give him,

[00:29:53:02 - 00:30:31:05]
Chris
 we gotta be a little gracious to him here because he doesn't have the full story that we have. But I think it is a warning that we have a real tendency to think in terms of what we need to do for Jesus instead of what Jesus has done for us. And so that phrase just as is super, super important just as Christ has done for us. And so the first thing that Jesus wants Peter and the apostles and then us to get here is not what we do for Jesus. And it's not even what we do for other people, it's what he's done for us. And so Peter just, he's missing,

[00:30:33:00 - 00:30:39:18]
Chris
 he's missing what he needs to do for other people, but he's more than that. He's missing what Jesus is about to do for him.

[00:30:40:22 - 00:31:03:15]
Chris
 And instead he wants to be busy and he wants to like, here's what I'm gonna do, which is a continual problem for followers of Jesus is that we always want to focus on what we need to do or what we can do. And there is an aspect of the Christian life that is for sure, like we see that, we love others,

[00:31:04:20 - 00:31:10:07]
Chris
 but that's again, it's an overflowing of what Christ has done for us. And so,

[00:31:11:12 - 00:31:11:20]
Chris
 yeah.

[00:31:11:20 - 00:31:31:01]
Brenton
 Yeah, well, I think there is certainly parallels to today. I think that we can oftentimes get caught up with our zeal in the moment and like follow through later too, right? Yeah, sure. I think that, yeah, you're right. That is a warning to us even today.

[00:31:31:01 - 00:31:33:18]
Chris
 Yeah, he's just, I mean, you gotta love him.

[00:31:35:15 - 00:31:38:15]
Chris
 And one of the reasons I do is I see so much of myself.

[00:31:40:02 - 00:31:41:02]
Chris
 Him is the,

[00:31:42:17 - 00:31:50:01]
Chris
 yes, I got it. I can do this and here's what I'm gonna do. And zeal is good.

[00:31:51:12 - 00:31:54:14]
Chris
 The odds gonna use Peter's zeal

[00:31:56:05 - 00:32:11:11]
Chris
 not too long after this in a very, very significant way. So it's not like we don't want to be zealous for the Lord. In fact, again, there's new tests and commands like we are to be zealous. And I think that,

[00:32:12:11 - 00:32:26:00]
Chris
 one of the things I wish that we had more of is people who are passionate to serve the Lord. And like we've been talking about, like, oh yeah, we're all in. But again,

[00:32:27:04 - 00:32:43:13]
Chris
 that's gotta be flowing out of a rich understanding of what Christ has done for us. And it's not, we're not easily, and I think that this is what Peter is doing in this passage.

[00:32:44:19 - 00:32:48:08]
Chris
 His zeal and his passion is he's trying to justify himself.

[00:32:49:12 - 00:32:55:10]
Chris
 He's just trying to say like, I'm like, this is what makes me who I am. This is what makes me right.

[00:32:56:12 - 00:33:17:04]
Chris
 And I think that that's, I know that's true for me a lot. It's like, this is like, if I'm being zealous and I'm going after it and I'm hustling, I'm getting it and accomplishing it, and I feel better about myself instead of recognizing that that's not what makes me right.

[00:33:18:06 - 00:33:29:22]
Chris
 Christ is what makes me right and leaning into that. And that's what Peter's problem was. And quite honestly, this is actually maybe encouragement we can get on this note.

[00:33:31:01 - 00:33:44:09]
Chris
 He still struggled with it after the resurrection and after he's restored by Jesus. And even after the Holy Spirit comes and he's indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we see him still sticking his foot in his mouth. So.

[00:33:45:12 - 00:33:46:08]
Brenton
 That's the encouragement.

[00:33:46:08 - 00:33:51:08]
Chris
 The way it's the encouragement is because if this is the guy who Jesus said, I'm gonna,

[00:33:52:14 - 00:33:56:12]
Chris
 you're gonna be the leader of my church, the early church.

[00:33:57:17 - 00:34:05:03]
Chris
 And then, if he struggled like that, then maybe it's okay if we struggle too.

[00:34:06:17 - 00:34:14:18]
Brenton
 All right, well, thanks Chris. If you have any questions, ask at furtherpodcast.com and we will talk to you next week.

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