Addressing Violence Against Women Part 2: Bystander Intervention with Dr. Hill

How did Dr. Hill address a man disrespecting women in public—and what can we learn from it? In this compelling continuation, Dr. Saed Hill shares a real-life example of bystander intervention that stopped harmful behavior in its tracks. We explore how men can take action in everyday situations, challenge toxic norms, and help dismantle the root causes of violence against women. If you're wondering what allyship really looks like, start here.

Dr. Saed Hill, Ph.D. can be reached on LinkedIn or at saed.d.hill@gmail.com. See here for more from Dr. Hill.

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Transcript

 A lot of women were asking their boyfriends and husbands about, Hey, if I was trapped in the woods, would you rather me be trapped in the woods with a bear or a man? And many men said the bear too. We often talk about how women are afraid of men, um, but we rarely do talk about how men are also trained to and socialize to also be very mistrusting and fearful of other men as well.

Hey, brave one. Welcome to the Aware and Prepared Podcast. I'm your host, Mandy Pratt, trauma-informed resilience speaker, domestic violence victim advocate, and narcissistic abuse survivor. Here we keep it real with true crime stories and real world strategies to prevent emotional and physical harm. My guests and I share a mix of insight.

And survivor grit all to help you feel safer, trust yourself more deeply, and live with greater peace and power inside and out. Let's trade fear for freedom and step into the peace that you deserve.

Hey, welcome back to the Aware and Prepared Podcast today in part two with Dr. Sayed Hill. We will hear real life examples of what we can say or do when we witness somebody perpetuating unhelpful or abusive ideas. Last week we learned from Dr. Hill about what men often experience and learn online and in many social circles that perpetuates violence against women.

And he explained what healthy masculinity can look like. So let's dig in with him and finish our conversation. Thanks for being here. So let's get like some specifics. So like, what about the saying that you hear not all men, right? So we women are just like over it and they're like, quit cat calling me.

Quit, you know, following me. Quit the crap. You know, we're angry. But then you have people like, um, my husband, I've. You know, sometimes I'll, because of my work, right? So I'll get super frustrated, especially because of what I'm seeing or whatever, and talk to him about what's going on. And sometimes I'll kind of get mad at him and he is like, wait a minute.

Like, don't transfer that to me. Like I'm one of the nice guys, you know? But I feel like just 'cause you're a nice guy, like that's great, but we really, because you're a nice guy, it's like, we need your help. So how can they come into the picture and help us, you know? 'cause we're your, your sisters or mothers or grandmothers that are being abused or, you know, cat called out.

I'm just trying to like, go on a walk. You know, so. Right, right. You know, so how can they assist us? Yeah. I, I think what we need to really think about is, so I, I got even getting into this work, I got into this work not because I necessarily had the biggest passion for men in masculinity work. You know, it was more of like, I have a passion for people living freely and, and having the ability to feel free and liberated in their lives.

And I find that many men and boys aren't living very freely and in turn. They kind of like take away freedom from other people in their lives and in particular women and and people who are not men. Right? And so I think one thing that I would encourage men and boys to do is, so for example, the, well not all men, right?

Like I. Look, I get that. I get, I totally get that. As someone who does the work I do, like, I can kind of get that and just say like, yeah, well I, it could be easy for me to say, well, look at this work I'm doing and stuff. But I think like that also feels very ego. That's an ego thing. I think that there's, um, part of us as men who don't want to be associated with this egregiousness, but what we don't think about.

Is that this is a continuum. I don't have to be out there harming overtly harming women with violence to still contribute to dynamics that cause that. And so I think we have to kind of get out of this like there's good men and bad men sort of thing, and start to really think about the continuum of harm in a way that, like even when I am very reactive, right?

So I, I've been in a relationship for nine and a half years, right? With a woman I love dearly. And even still, she'll say something to me and I will just get so angry in my mind. Like, I'll feel activated and then I'm defensive and I'm like all of a sudden making excuses. I'm defensive and I'm talking about how I'm feeling and, and, and it's sort of like in a moment where I just could take a deep breath, right, and realize like I'm having impact on her and she has her own history and stuff like that.

And it's like. Where's that coming from? Right? Like I, I'm not overtly like harming her in this way, but that's still on a continuum where I'm also like not allowing her space to even have her emotions or process something with me. Like I'm not giving her space to show her own anger. Her own insecurity or anxiety or whatever.

So even if it is sort of, even if she is projecting onto me, right? Even if she's had a bad day and other men have harm, you know, whatever it may be, and now she's making it about me. Part of what it means, I think, to live in my own masculinity in a more healthy way. Is to create space and peace for those around me and in particular the women in my life.

And part of it is hearing them and hearing that I'm in a lot of circles where women say, I hate men and I hate all men, and men are trash. I'm in those circles. I hear that. Does that have an impact on me? Sure. Like that sucks to hear that. Like I don't want to hear that. Right. And I can easily also know, and I've heard before like, well, we're not talking about you necessarily sayed.

Right? Like cool, I can hear that too. But I know there's a lot of men who might listen to this or hear this on a day-to-day basis and, and build a lot of resentment. And I think what you have to really consider is that what a lot of women are talking about in this context is not. Hashtag all men are trash, although maybe some, right?

Like, but some of these women who say these things are women who I think are some of the biggest champions for men on an individual level I've ever seen, you know, and or even work in a lot of work that's meant to help boys and men. And we have to understand it's not necessarily about like these individual men.

It's about like, sort of the institution of what men represent. It's not about like, I hate men, or like, oh, men are doing this. It's about like the institution. Of men and how men have like historically, not just held power, but use power, um, to exploit. And it doesn't mean that you are doing that necessarily as an individual, but you might contribute to it in your own ways.

Right. And so when I hear this sort of thing, I think we first have to be very clear. I. About, you know, what men can do is just try to, it's easier said than done, but not take things so personally, like about this, I mean, people are having real experiences. Can you make space for that? Yeah, so I think first we need to really make space so help, um, ourselves, we need to take some space, but help others take some space.

I think also like. It is vital that these men, if you think you're identifying, I guess, in some way as like one of the good men out there, although again, I don't like to be too much in binaries. If you think you fall in that category and you're, you're trying to be helpful to this process, use your voice, like use your, um, communication, say something about it.

I think one of the things that has really been helpful to the manosphere, aside from like. Algorithms that really perpetuate. So we have to have better digital literacy, honestly. 'cause there's a lot of algorithms that push this content out there anyway. Um, because it, it really riles people up. Yeah. And that's how you profit Right, right.

Of people's emotions and stuff like that. Right. But, and I think aside from that sort of basic understanding, I think what we need to do a better job of is telling our stories. As men or as boys, like how does being compassionate, how does being, understanding how, what are your stories of what masculinity sort of looks like for you?

Right. Um, can I tell a story about the ways that I just made space? I, yeah, sure. Some. Maybe a woman was projecting some stuff onto me, but I just made space for her. And how healing that can also be between men and women, just to like have that dynamic where someone's just not being defensive right away.

Right, right, right. So talk about that and uplift that a little bit more. And, and don't be afraid to be very clear, like from, um, sort of this and bystander sort of way of like, you know, if I see men saying stuff to women, uh, I'll give a prime example of this where, um, I saw a man. Uh, who? Same. Uh, I'm, I'm Indian, I'm Indo Caribbean.

So I saw a man of the same race as me talking to two women who are also the same race as me. About, you know, his understanding that women cannot lead his, his, he was very like, clear that women aren't like, cannot be leaders and I would not follow a woman, and especially one of these brown women. And this is a brown man saying this to these brown women, right?

And immediately I was like. Absolutely not. I was like, I kind of like, just kind of, kind of, I cut in right away. I didn't know these people. I was in line at like a, a pretzel stand, believe it or not. So, um, but I just kind of cut in and I said, you know, to these two women, I said, Hey, I, I don't know how you're feeling about this conversation, but I am not agreeing with this man, and I would.

Love to like talk to him if you're also cool with it and said to this man, you know, I would love to say something to you about this, but I wanted to check with these women in particular. 'cause again, I didn't wanna like overstep necessarily if they felt like they just had it. Like, but I, you know, it's consent sort of based kind of situation.

But I'm just like, I just don't agree with this. I wanna let y'all know I don't agree with what he's saying. I would love to say something to 'em about it, but just, how are y'all doing with this whole thing? And they were perfectly like, go ahead. Like, yes, we actually, they were probably like, yes, please, yes, yes, please.

And I just kind of said to 'em, I was like, you know, I don't know that you're understanding even I. The impact of this, like you're saying this, you look this way, talking to these women this way, who look this way, and these could be our literal sisters, our mothers, our, our aunts, and stuff like that. And you know, through this conversation with him, I was just kind of saying like, this can be deeply harmful to, to promote this sort of narrative.

Look at all the ways that our us as men have also failed in our leadership and our ability to lead, not just sometimes whole nations, but like even our families, our communities, our relationships. Like, and it's not to say that like all again, all men are horrible at this or whatever, but it's to say like, you're speaking in such absolutes.

Mm-hmm. And these absolutes really contribute to. Continued harm and disrespect of people and of these women. Right. You know, and I think what I find a lot when I intervene as a man in some of these sort of situations, unfortunately, but also fortunately, is that men tend to listen to me. Right. Surprise a lot more than they listen to women who are saying, oh gosh.

The exact same things I might be saying, which is why it's so important. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's, you know, I do this work too because I, I hope that like men will just listen to women in the ways that they would listen to me. I mean, I, I want that hope that, right. But also if that's not gonna be the case, at least I can say I.

I think a lot of men or boys listening to this might be surprised at how much power they really have mm-hmm. With men, um, when they really have an alternative sort of perspective on things. Wow. They actually had a young, uh, man in my family who's a teenager. He's a 17 years old, and he was saying some pretty disparaging things about women actually, um, in front of me.

Oh, and I. Jumped in right away. And I was like, who? Absolutely not. Like why are you saying these things? This is deeply harmful in this way. And I gave an alternative opinion right about it. And he quickly just said, uh uh. Well, you know, I mean, I don't really think that, I mean, that's just like what my dad says, you know?

And I. I, I don't really believe this. And it was a moment where he changed his tune right away. But it was also what he said to me was, it was like the first time he ever heard another man around him giving an alternative, uh, look on this particular area, right? Because we get into our own echo chambers and stuff like this.

And this is, you know, um, and not immediate family. This is more extended family. But it is one of those reminders about, again, the power that we wield where all. A lot of men and boys are repeating things and saying things, and they rarely, sometimes, if ever, have an alternative viewpoint from another man on these sorts of issues and areas, right?

And you might be really surprised about how much, uh, headway you can make with men and boys when you express this. But again, I don't wanna come across as like preachy in these conversations or whatever, but I'm very clear about what my values are. I'm very clear and confident. About where I stand on these sorts of things and I know that it can be harmful and I'm not afraid to express that.

And I think so even as someone who isn't overtly maybe out there harming people, it's so vital that we're talking about this with not just in the presence of women to defend women necessarily. Yeah. Who may or may not even want that defense. Right. But like with other men in our day-to-day lives, boys in our day-to-day lives and really having these conversations with them.

Right. And giving them that alternative opinion and stuff, or being at least very honest and and about like your opinions on women. Like you need to talk about that. Yeah. Like that's a real thing. Yeah, exactly. I have so many things to say about that. Number one, I love it. Thank you for standing up for that one.

I would've never thought to ask them. Do you want me to step in? Mm-hmm. That was cool. And then I like how like I feel like most men, if they will step up, they'll just be like, Hey man, that's not cool, but I like how you're actually giving like an alternative. So maybe we can talk about what are just some like quick lines that they can start in with instead of, Hey man, that's not cool.

Like what? Words would you actually use? Like would you say, Hey, can I just step in? Honestly, like, would you say that, or, Hey, can I share just an alternative thought on that? Is that, yeah, sometimes it can be. I, I would encourage folks like, yeah, I can give some examples for folks. I also think like sometimes it's good to just.

Be natural about what comes to you, right? Like, I'm an educator, I do outreach, I talk about this all the time. So what comes natural to me sure might feel not as natural to other people, but certainly one of the things that I think is really important for this is if you have the time and the energy, um, for it.

It's like some sort of sense of understanding. So there's been other times and instances where I've just like asked a question where I've just said like, Hey, I hear what you're saying and I disagree with it, but I wanna hear like, where is that coming from? Like I'm really curious, so I even use the word curious.

Yeah. You know, I ask a question about their experience of things, right. To understand. Right. As opposed to like preach to them or. Like scold them or something, which I think can push people deeper Sure. Or shame them. Right. You know, I'm sort of like, I'm interested and I generally, I became a psychologist because I'm, I think people are really fascinating.

Totally. And I think people and the decisions they make are really interesting to me. So for me, I'm kind of like just wondering. I'm like, what is that about? I'm curious what that is about. So showing a sense of curiosity. I think is, is really helpful and can often be kind of disarming, asking 'em a question about their experience to help them, like just let them get it out and see what they're saying.

Right. And then me hearing it might be very different than a woman hearing it and the impact might land a little differently on me, right. Than if a woman, uh, being impacted by that. Yeah, but then I'm very clear when they kind of express these opinions. I kind of say the impact that it does have on me where I kind of say, you know, things like, you know, honestly hearing that is really feels hurtful to me too, because honestly like that's not my experience.

Like you're kind of invalidating my experience. 'cause I've been. Led by plenty of women in my life. You know, not with saying my mo, my own mother, right. Has led me in a lot of ways, and she is not perfect by any means, but I've seen how fiercely she advocates for me in my life and how much of a leader of our household she has been at times.

And it doesn't mean my father can't lead or hasn't led Sure. But that's what an egalitarian sort of relationship dynamic looks like, is like people lead at different times and lead over different things. And that happens, right? I talk about a lot about that or, or women who have been bosses of mine who have led with a lot of compassion, but also been very firm and held us accountable too.

Right, right. So I was like, you're invalidating my experience with this, but also like hearing this hurts me because honestly that sort of opinion is the kind of thing. That keeps us from establishing healthier relationships with people in our lives and women in our lives. 'cause we have this rigid thinking and understanding, and then we're going into these relational dynamics with people in particular women.

Yeah. And that opinion seeps out into our ability to even connect with them. And we're actually denying ourselves the ability to connect. Mm-hmm. And our ability to understand other people, because then it's about like power and dominance and rigidity and who wants to be around that? Like, that's not, I mean, you're isolating yourself with that kind of opinion too.

Right. And, and it's harmful to, to men as well. Right. Mm-hmm. Because I think a lot of the women and, and feminism in particular has been really key to me as a man, understanding myself more because women have cared, not just because they have, obviously because they've been harmed. Right? Right. By men in history need to understand that psychology I.

Right, but also because like women care and women are compassionate also about men and our issues and things like that, they Right. They want us, they want to choose us over the bear. Um, yes. In the woods, like right, they, I think women wanna choose us. Like they want us to be, you know, they want us to be better too.

They, they want us to grow with them and, and, and stuff like that. I want us to grow so. I think there could be a number of things you kind of say, but I think leading with some compassion and curiosity is really helpful. Talking about the impact on you. Mm-hmm. As opposed to having to educate necessarily.

But hey, if you got some stats, you got some research, you got, things like that, feel free to throw that out there if that's the vibe or the dynamic. But I think keeping it to like personal to you Yes. Can be really helpful just to give them a different look. Yeah, way stronger too. And can you just explain real quick about the bear?

I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, sure. There was like a lot of, um, social media, I think discourse, especially on TikTok. Several months. I I was it last year? Maybe? Maybe you, yeah, last year. It was last year. About, uh, women being asked, like if they, if they were like alone, trapped in the woods, would they rather be alone in the woods with a a, a random man?

Or a bear. And there was a lot of women who, you know, some very serious, some joking, but there was a lot of discourse about how women were overwhelmingly kind of choosing bears. Yeah. Over the men. Because of, and I've heard this from women before with me about like to, to be a woman is just sort of navigate the world in a way that like you're number one.

You know, partner and supports or whatever, or your, your romantic partners might be men. And, but also it's like your number one predator too, because of things like the, the statistics we know about violence against women and things like that perpetuated by men. Again, not all men, I'll say that for y all, not all men, but again, we all like are on this continuum of harm.

So, and then these women were talking to their husbands about that. Like even, and this is the key that I wanted to get across to people too, actually about this. Is that a lot of women were asking their boyfriends and husbands about, Hey, if I was trapped in the woods, would you rather me be trapped in the woods with a bear or a man?

And many men? Said the bear too. I want that. Ooh, I hadn't heard that part. This wasn't, yes, this wasn't just like when, you know, and, and I think that is also a key to sort of understanding about even the manosphere stuff and some of the ways that men navigate relationships with each other. We often talk about how women, and, and this is something from Bell Hooks intersectional feminist author who wrote things like A Will to Change.

And I believe this was in a Will to change. It's all about like love and masculinity. She talks about how we often talk about how women are afraid of men, um, but we rarely do talk about how men are also trained to and socialize to also be very mistrusting and fearful of other men as well. Interesting.

Um, and some of those lessons even go back to things like. Well wait, just wait until your father gets home. Right. Or don't let me tell your father about this. Or, or like these little subtle ways that we're conditioned to also fear other men in our lives or always be in competition with other men in our lives and stuff.

So, so we can talk about like this like thing about women all we want, but I think men also need to start being very honest. Mm-hmm. About the ways that we also fear each other. And I don't want that. I want to create a lot more brotherhood and connection and freedom between us as men. But it impacts me when I see men being violent against all people.

Um, not just women. Right. But like to me as a man too, that makes me fearful too. Sure. I also am fearful of a lot of men in my life and I've had to do a lot of work around that. Hmm. To do the work I do. Um, but I think we have to be a little bit more honest about that sort of thing too. And I think more men talking about that dynamic could be really important to this conversation as well.

That's a really good point. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. Yeah. And I just think like overall. Thinking of like talking with my husband about this too is just, or even other family members that are men, is asking them like, what I'm asking for is for you to just take a moment to give some space and acknowledgement about the collective trauma that has happened for women for so long.

That's where a lot of this is coming from. It's like it's not even just me, it's just all of this collective trauma for so long. Right? And I feel like it really boils down to that power and control issue, the systemic. Type of stuff because I mean, domestic violence is all about power and control and so, but on a broader general topic like gender-based violence, right, like it's that whole, it's still really about that whole power and control.

I feel like Right. Absolutely. Um, this is not violence against, uh, women and, and sexual violence and things like that are not, are not, uh, crimes or things about sex. I mean, it's about the power of sex or wielding power over people Right. And against people and exploiting people in that way. Right. Getting, yeah.

So I, uh, a hundred percent agree with you and I think what you're getting at Mandy, which I really appreciate, is just this like. Look, when women are talking about this stuff, you could just show some compassion and just like listen, right? And just be like, that sucks to hear that. I'm sorry that you're having that experience.

Like right. I don't always have to make it about me as a man. Yeah. Like why am I all of a sudden having, I hear women in my life saying something to me and then I have to what? Defend. A bunch of men I don't even know or never encountered in my life, right? Like, 'cause of this, why, like, who's that for? I, this is a human being in front of me.

Yeah. Who I know that is talking to me about this. Can I make space for them and isn't me not making that space for them? The exact kind of thing they're talking about in the first place, right? Yeah. And so. We're reinforcing this narrative when we show up this way. So it's like, let's make some space for people.

Yeah. Like let, it's okay. Yeah. It's gonna be okay. And they'll appreciate us for us, uh, for it. Yeah, for sure. It's opening up conversations and, you know, with my own husband, I don't wanna just talk badly, like he is so great. I am so glad that I married somebody who. Shares the household responsibilities.

Yeah. And who supports my work. Like I really, really appreciate that and doesn't have an issue with who is earning more and whose money is it really? Like I have to give kudos to him for that. Um, but I just feel like. A lot of men I know are feeling like, Hey, hey, hey. Like, come on guys, don't attack me.

Yeah. So I'm glad that we've had this discussion so they can kinda understand like the bigger picture and hearing actionable, you know, some things to really think about and different. Perspectives. So, yeah. But I love that we addressed, you know, bystander intervention, um, and, and you're talking about this in the public, so.

Before we sign off, I just wanted to also address like at work too. So at work, I guess it would kind of be similar, but just thinking of like at work and family. So what about people that you see all the time, right? Mm-hmm. So, um, when you gave your example of standing in line with these women and the, the guy, um, you're never gonna see them again.

So, you know, how does that differ with people that you see on the day to day? No, I appreciate that, that question. So I think. What I wanted to point out is even what I did was rather direct, and I think when we're talking about bystander intervention, oftentimes we're thinking about direct interventions, like very in the moment direct.

I'm talking to these women right away. I'm talking to this man right away. And that's very direct. I think in the workplace, what's beneficial is to think about there's other ways of intervening as well. So for example, there's very. What we might call more passive, indirect, or delayed sort of intervention.

So realizing that part of by standard intervention can also happen after the fact. So in the workplace, if I see or experience, uh, someone, say a woman in this example experiencing some sort of harassment or discrimination, and I'm unsure about like getting involved directly in the moment for whatever reason, remember I asked these women in my example permission, but.

Maybe sometimes people are jumping in or, or maybe at times we just don't know what to do. One thing you can also do, that's also bystander intervention is more of a delayed response where I might just go up to this woman or women after the fact and just go up to them and say to them like, I. Hey, I saw what happened, or I heard what happened.

Like, how are you doing? Like, are you doing okay? Let me know. No pressure, but let me know if there's something I could be doing or saying. But I just wanna at least let you know that like I noticed it and I'm really sorry that happened to you. Right? Like that is also beneficial. Like it's not preventative, but it's sort of harm reduction, right?

Like it's sort of, I think we need to start to think about. Bystander intervention is not always just like an overtly preventative thing, but sometimes it is harm reduction. So like letting people know that even after the fact, even after something has happened. Yeah, people notice and people care. Yeah.

And that can kind of create an environment where it might at least dull some of the full impact that that event had on somebody. Right. As opposed to like overtly like, uh, you know, preventing it. So I think like. In the workplace, we have to think that there's also like delayed ways to do this that are also beneficial.

Yeah. But also asking for assistance in this. So there's also like sort of delegating a little bit. Right. So can I see something going on right here? Something going on. Maybe I need to like talk to. Other folks like, Hey, maybe I get permission from that person who's experienced harm to talk to other people about it, but maybe that doesn't really work in that moment.

Maybe I'm in a position of authority or power already and it's like, well, who else are folks that I can just like talk to about what we can do? Like helpful. Right. It doesn't always have to be on me as the individual. Yeah, right. Sometimes men in particular are always like, it's all, it's gotta be direct and only I can be doing this intervention.

But it's like ask for help too. Like there might be other people. School in positions of power, other colleagues or coworkers, right, that care about this. Like just asking like, hey, like this is what happened. What can we sort of do about it? So next time if it happens, we're a little bit more prepared. Uh, sure.

To, to do that too. And I think what, uh, you can also document things. I mean, just document. It's a good idea. Um, so, you know, as a person, like I, I don't, may not even need permission for this. I might just like. Just like notice something going on and I might just jot, jot it down like date time, this is what happened.

And then I could even go after the fact to this person who's experienced this harm and kind of say like, Hey. Just checking in. How are you doing? And also, I just wanna let you know, I did like write it down. I don't have to like report this or do anything necessarily, but like letting you know, like I, I kept a record of it because I think in case you need it or want it.

Mm, that's, but you know, if there's a pattern going on here. I at least have the record of it, right? Mm-hmm. Like, because a lot of folks who experience harm don't necessarily want it reported. Mm-hmm. Um, you may have to report certain things, right? Sure. Depending on your position, right? But often if it's just like a colleague to colleague thing, like sometimes people don't want things reported and maybe they have agency for that.

So just help 'em document it. Yeah. And, um, also know what resources might be available for folks too. Like, Hey, you experienced this, here's some resources that could be helpful to you. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's so many different things we can kind of be doing Right. That aren't just overtly prevention in the moment.

Right. Although I gave an example too, so. Right. Um, yeah, so these are some examples that I'm thinking about. We, we should broaden our lens on what bystander intervention, I think is overall true. Two questions for you following that up. One, I. I guess you could also go to the person who said the offensive thing and just be like, absolutely.

Hey man, like I heard you say that and you know, and then say what we were saying before, like, I'm just curious where that was coming from or whatever. Or couldn't and Or you could maybe, could you like go to HR and be like, Hey, I've noticed like an issue. I'm not gonna say who or whatever, but it seems like maybe we could use some training on this issue.

You could do that as well, right. Absolutely both those things are great choices. I mean, I've gone on to colleagues after the fact who have said things and just said like, Hey, what you said isn't great, isn't cool. Whatever, uh, words I might be using in the moment that feel natural to me. And also, like I may not always express curiosity sometimes, like I.

It's like, Hey, it is just unacceptable and I don't believe in that. And I think what you're saying is really harmful, right? Yeah, it's, it could be clear and to the point as well, but also, yeah, going to HR and kind of saying like, Hey, I think this stuff's kind of going on. It would be helpful to have a training.

I think what you're really getting at Mandy, and what we've been talking about here is, and I say this a lot about the bystander intervention stuff, is that it's. There isn't necessarily a right answer, but there are probably some wrong ones to be honest. Yeah. Like how to sort of intervene, but if you're like really paying attention and caring about your impact on yourself, on other people, and you're noticing dynamics.

And you're checking in with people and all these things, you're, you're probably rarely, if ever, gonna make the wrong quote unquote wrong decisions. Mm-hmm. Because there's a lot of right answers to this, right? Yeah. It can be direct, it can be delayed. Yeah. You can document things, right? Like you can talk to the person who's offending, talk to the person who's been offend.

I mean, there's so many different options to it. There's not a right way to do it. Sure. And I think people need to know. How do you create, especially in the workplace or in a relationship dynamic? Mm-hmm. A culture of care around this. Yeah. Knowing like, so if I'm in a workplace that this environment notices this sort of stuff and talks about it and will do something about it, or in a relationship dynamic, even if it's a one-on-one relationship, that this relationship feels safe enough that we as people in the relationship can bring to each other.

Harm that's happened between us. Mm-hmm. And without fear of sort of retribution or always defensiveness or whatever, can we create an environment where we feel safer talking to people? Yeah. And aren't always walking around eggshells with each, with each other. Right. And that's how we create a healthier.

More free and liberated relationship dynamic across, whether it be work or our relationships. Right? I think those things are really important, so I appreciate those examples you gave. Cool. Awesome. Well, I feel like we had a really great conversation and gave some practical tips, so I really, really appreciate your time and your expertise, and thank you for being in this space and doing the work that you do.

We need to clone you and make like. Thousands. More of you. Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, we're gonna, uh, Adam Dodge and I are gonna work on, uh, making the AI sayeed, you know, who can, uh, you know, maybe interrupt things there. Yeah. Be out there online and stuff, uh, interrupting stuff. But no, I appreciate the opportunity.

Manny, I love the work that you're doing and just uplifting these sorts of things. Tell us again the type of work that you do and how they can reach you. Yeah, absolutely. So you can certainly. So I'm a full-time, um, counseling psychologist and consultant in, um, the, uh, I guess broad, uh, field of men and masculinities.

Um, so a lot of what I do as a psychologist and independent consultant is sort of specializing in promoting. A more pro-social as aspects or versions of masculinity as sort of a means of, of violence prevention. So I provide a lot of one-on-one trainings, coaching, strategic consulting, just on the, the topic of masculinity.

And now it really addresses broad topics like. Domestic and global prevention, manosphere stuff, ai, um, how boys and men are being influenced and stuff like that. So I'll work with people one-on-one or organizations or whatever it may be. You can always reach me at my email, which is say like my first name, which I, you'll have things listed.

Mandy, I, I don't know, show notes, things out, right? But it's Saeed d Hill, so it's SAED. Um, dot dHill@gmail.com. Cool. And and you can reach me there or find me on LinkedIn site D Hill. I'm on there. I have a Canvas site. Maybe I'll list that for you. It's a makeshift site while I get my real site going Mandy.

But like Sure you could Google me too. Like I'm around Google site D Hill around so you can find there. Yeah, I connected with you on LinkedIn and Yeah, I found that to be helpful 'cause that's also where you guys, you and Adam were sharing about the webinar. Um, so I highly recommend that people listening would follow you there and then get in touch if they want.

You could do like a workplace training, or you do could, do you do counseling like one-to-one? I'll do some one-on-one Support stuff too. Like, yeah, I mean, I do one-on-one coaching with folks, so I've had some women at times like say, like, Hey, and it's often women that are like. Can you work with my husband or my boyfriend or my son or something on some issues and cool.

You know, I can do that sort of one-on-one work. I've had men reach out and you know, for just some relationship type coaching and stuff. My background, my distant background was in couples and family therapy Oh, cool. And things like that too. So yeah, like people could just reach out one-on-one. I do some group work with folks, so whatever folks are looking for, I invite the conversation.

I like the conversation and I can tell you. What I can or can't do for you and make sure I set you up well for whatever you're looking for, even if I can't provide it. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. We appreciate your time, like I said, and we appreciate you. Yeah, thanks for having me, Mandy.

Appreciate it. You're welcome. Thanks for tuning into the Aware and Prepared podcast. Curious how tuned in your intuition really is. Take the free quiz at Aware and prepared. Life and get your score. See how sharp your inner guide is. You are worthy of a safe and peaceful life. Talk with you next week and please share this episode with someone who came to mind while you were listening.

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