Aware And Prepared

Bystander Intervention: Empowering Bystanders to Make a Difference

• Mandi Pratt • Season 4 • Episode 1

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Learn how to safely intervene as a bystander and hear Kelly Pfleider's, founder of Pure Praxis, innovative approaches to sexual assault prevention training. They discuss the importance of engaging student leaders, and empowering individuals to take action in difficult situations. 

Kelly emphasizes the role of storytelling in education and the need for continuous conversations about consent and support for survivors. The episode highlights how Pure Praxis customizes its training to create safe spaces for dialogue and encourages listeners to get involved in their community.


TAKEAWAYS

  • Kelly Pfleider is the founder of Pure Praxis, focusing on social justice through theater.
  • Bystander intervention is crucial in preventing sexual assault.
  • Engaging student leaders can create a ripple effect in communities.
  • Empowerment comes from understanding one's own skills and instincts.
  • Storytelling is a powerful tool in educating about consent and prevention.
  • Creating safe spaces for dialogue is essential for honest conversations.
  • Every situation is unique, and responses should be tailored accordingly.
  • Believing survivors is fundamental to encouraging them to come forward.
  • Training should avoid re-traumatization and focus on support.
  • Continuous conversations about consent and prevention are necessary for societal change.


CHAPTERS


00:00 Introduction to Kelly Pfleider and Pure Praxis

03:02 Innovative Approaches to Sexual Assault Prevention Training

06:04 The Importance of Bystander Intervention

08:57 Engaging Student Leaders in Conversations

12:00 Empowering Individuals to Take Action

14:46 Creating Safe Spaces for Dialogue

18:02 The Role of Storytelling in Education

21:10 Addressing the Complexity of Consent

24:00 The Need for Continuous Conversations

26:58 How to Get Involved with Pure Praxis

RESOURCES

 

  • Pure Praxis - Customizable prevention & response training programs

 

 

 

 

Connect with Kelly:  LinkedIn / Official website


Connect with Mandi:


The primary purpose of the Women Aware and Prepared Podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute advice or services. Please use common sense for your own situation.



 Hey, brave one. Welcome to the Aware and Prepared Podcast. I'm your host, Mandy Pratt, trauma-informed, resilient speaker, domestic violence victim advocate, and narcissistic abuse survivor. Here we keep it real with true crime stories and real world strategies to prevent emotional and physical harm. My guests and I share a mix of insight and survivor grit.

All to help you feel safer, trust yourself more deeply, and live with greater peace and power. Let's trade fear for freedom and step into the peace that you deserve.

Hey, welcome back to the Aware and Prepared Podcast. So I have my buddy here with me, Kelly, and I'm gonna reach you her bio real quick. Um, she graduated from USC with a Master's in Applied Theater and Therapy Arts. Set out to change the game. She launched Pure Praxis, a social justice theater company dedicated to positive and cultural change.

Her mission was simple, yet bold, to transform mandatory training into an experience that challenges attendees to develop real world solutions. Genius, I have to say, in 2015. Kelly was awarded a contract with the Department of Navy's sexual Assault Prevention Office. Wow. As the primary provider of sexual assault prevention training.

Kelly traveled to military installations across the globe addressing a wide range of critical issues including violence. Toxic Ideologies, prevention and Response. Kelly has partnered with Cal Poly Pomona's, office of Equity and Compliance Healthcare professionals at UCI Health and the Girl Scouts of America.

Kelly has 20 years of experience. She has performed in 18 countries and has accumulated 5,000 plus hours of facilitating bystander intervention workshops. Hello. You are a genius. Thank you so much. 

Yeah. Thank you Mandy. 

I loved hearing about what you do and actually going to see your recent show at Cal Poly, um, was so fun to see your team in action. See how that actually helps the students. So can you tell us a little bit about what your team was doing that day? 

Yeah, so we were hired to work with the student athletes and provide their Title IX training, which.

Student leaders, they have to have mandated training, and a lot of organizations that work with us are looking for something that is different. We all have to go through some type of mandatory compliance training, and anyone that works with my company, peer Praxis, is trying to give their community.

Something a little bit different, and we of course care about these issues, prevention response, but when it feels watered down, you can get removed from the human element of it. Hmm. So we were hired to work with the student athletes on their consent education, sexual assault prevention, and bystander intervention.

And the reason I separate those is. With our trainings, we're not just coming in to give a lecture. 

Yeah. 

In fact, there's a lot of different layers that go into it. Yeah. So on surface value, we're coming to talk about sexual assault that happens at a party. Mm-hmm. Right? You there's red flags, predatory behavior, inappropriate comments.

Unwelcome, physical touch, and that could be our whole training. We could talk about the do's and don'ts, but we also wanna talk about the different consequences of action or inaction. Mm-hmm. So that particular story. Spirals into, um, our instincts. Mm-hmm. How we are the only creatures to second guess things that keep us safe.

Mm-hmm. We are constantly like, this is not my business. 

Yes. 

Or I feel like I'm making a big deal of what I am seeing. Mm-hmm. So I'm not gonna do anything. 

Yeah. 

Or the bystander effect of someone else will do this. Mm-hmm. Because I don't know what to do. 

Yeah. 

Because of that, uh, it opens up conversations of blurred consent.

Mm. 

It opens up conversations of victim blaming. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and the reality that no one is, um, bringing this upon themselves. It's outside external factors. Right. And um, through these character stories, we always really hone in onto the storytelling aspect of our mm-hmm. Characters. Again, they're not there for shock value.

Right. 

Um, they are there to represent the everyday. Situations. 

Yeah. 

And we learn through these characters that one of them has been sexually assaulted. He identifies as a man and so there's a lot of, um, gender norms mm-hmm. That are stifling him and other people, but people who feel like seeking out help.

Means that you're weak. 

Mm-hmm. 

If you are assaulted or put in a vulnerable position, it means that you're not strong enough. Mm-hmm. So we really get to tap into why people don't get help, and let's have these honest conversations because what we're seeing is. Far more complex than what's actually happening.

And then finally, bystander intervention. So not only how do you prevent these things at a party, but how do you call out 

mm-hmm. 

Toxic behavior. Mm-hmm. How do you step in when you might not, feel comfortable? Can you bring in allies? And then the most important thing, if we cannot prevent these assaults from happening, how can you support.

The victim or the person who has experienced this type of hatred, this type of crime. Mm-hmm. And so there's a lot that goes into it. And, um, I love that when we show up, there's so much more that the students and the community gets to experience because that's life. It is not a packaged mm-hmm. Let's come up with a solution and be done with it.

And that's what we try to bring every time we, um, work with someone new. 

Yeah. I loved how like they did the skit. And so the one guy was saying really inappropriate comments to the gal at the party, and he was coming onto her strong and she was not into him.

And so a sexual assault happens, and then the, the guy friend who's there, um, he leaves, you know, so he's not there when that happens. But after, that comes out, that that happened, it. We see that he has a background of being, um, going through sexual assault in the past too, so that mm-hmm. Strikes a chord with him.

, So as we go through that skit, I love how you guys stopped and then you asked the students questions and you got them involved, like, Hey guys. Okay. What, did you just see? What was, what were some of the red flags that you just saw? You know? Yes. It was so interesting to see like what they caught and how they.

Describe it, you know, um, 

yeah, 

yeah. And then you guys would continue on with the skit and, and kind of interact with them throughout. But my favorite part was actually towards the end. So where you bring the students, a couple of student volunteers, um, down, and they interact with your actors, and so they.

Actually get into it and like what would they have said? So I remember the one guy, really tall athlete guy who mm-hmm. Starts talking to the, um. The guy who was saying inappropriate things to the girl. And so he pulls him aside and it was so interesting to see like what he said and he was just, the way, his mannerisms, he was like super gentle and even like touched him just gently like, Hey man, like I'm sure that's not, you know, that's not cool and like, that's not how you were raised, you know?

And it was so interesting to see 

yes, 

how this. Particular student would handle it, and he did a beautiful job. Um, absolutely. But I love how you, how you guys give them a chance to like try it out themselves. And then that also made all the other students see that like, oh, that's, you know, 

yeah. That student.

You know, it's funny that you say that because I'm talking about student leadership and on a campus, a student leader is typically someone who's in an organization, a club, or an athletic department. Right? And to see this new generation of students be leaders. Is so fascinating. 

Mm-hmm. 

Because I think there's also, so this stereotype of like, well just use athletics.

And I'm not trying to simplify them at all, but it's very easy to just categorize them as they're focusing on their sport. We forget that they're also representing the next generation of athletes coming in. 

Mm-hmm. 

And, um. The messages that they send speak volumes to those that are below them. 

Mm-hmm. 

And 

true.

What I like working about these student leaders and why we always do the bystander intervention at the end of our, our trainings, no matter what topic we're talking about, is because of the incredible. Diversity of human interpretation. 

Hmm. 

My company could come in and say, Hey, these are the things that this female could have done to prevent it.

Mm-hmm. 

That's wrong. That's us setting up people for failure because every situation is going to look different. Yeah. And everybody individually is different. 

Exactly. 

So why would we put someone out there? With armor, that's not going to be effective. Mm-hmm. They have to figure out which armor is most effective for them.

Right. 

And what I liked about that one is it was much more calm mm-hmm. Than I think people going in there with what, 200 people? Watching and trying to make a, you know, are we gonna watch them make it be funny in this moment? Or are they gonna try to say something and have everybody go, oh no, we want them to make a difference in there.

And I just love the fact that we're seeing something that is so different and some kind of like tranquility and relaxation. This makes me think of, and part of the reason I really like your work, Mandy, is I listened to you, I think it was on your podcast. Um, you had said something like this type of work with what happened in your life, this type of work and the opportunity to seek help did not exist when you were growing up.

Right. 

It did not exist. And it's con continuously, um, in that same cycle. Mm-hmm. And it takes. Artists and advocates and allies alike mm-hmm. To change the course of conversation. 

Right. 

Having these conversations with people that are so much younger than me makes me feel so much better. 

Yeah. 

That we're having, not just us.

As a society, we're trying to tap into creating leaders. 

Right. 

And that means having serious conversations. Mm-hmm. That means realizing 10 years ago people weren't doing this. Mm-hmm. So what can we do now? Right. So 10 years in the future, people did say that they have that skillset, and that's what's really important about my work is.

I want the other people to come up with the solutions. I'm gonna host the space and I'm gonna do everything to prepare you, but ultimately I'm not gonna be there at that party. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna be there in the grocery store where you see someone yelling at their significant other. 

Mm-hmm. 

And we need to prepare each other to listen to our own skills and feel empowered.

Mm-hmm. And emboldened in our decisions to make a difference. Mm-hmm. Because when we work as a collective. Um, and look out for other people, not just our own benefit. Um, that's where we notice small little cracks where we don't need as much armor 

mm-hmm. 

To go into those conversations. 

Right, exactly. Yeah.

 Did you know through my company, women Aware and Prepared, I share keynotes and workshops focused on prevention and healing, helping people live safer with more peace. I've been invited to speak at universities, school counselor conferences, the Institute on Violence, abuse and Trauma. Crisis centers, social work, conferences, junior high and high schools, and women's gatherings.

And many more. My talks focus on following and acting on our intuition, setting healthy boundaries and using self-defense as a tool for empowerment. Helping victims and survivors gain their power back with actionable strategies and real resources. If your organization is looking for a speaker who brings both inspiration and transformation visit.

Aware and prepared life, or message me on Instagram or LinkedIn. You'll find the links in the show notes. Let's live safer with more peace for brighter futures.



 So with that, it's like you were just saying like every situation is so different, um, and then every person is so different. So how would you encourage our listeners to engage, like when something that they see doesn't feel right? I know for myself, like, like you touched on before, intuition, right?

So our intuition might be yelling at us like, oh my gosh, that guy just said that to that girl who that's bad. And like, this seems like a bad situation. Right. But 

yeah, 

so often, like you were talking about, we rationalize it like, oh, I'm sure it'll be fine. Or I'm just overreacting. 'cause that's what we've been conditioned to do.

Mm-hmm. So I would think the first thing would be to stop and actually. Say something to myself, and then if somebody else is with me, just hold on a minute. Hang on a minute. Right? 

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think for so many of us, we get trapped in the cognitive burden of what's happening in the moment.

Mm-hmm. Something happens whether to us or to someone else, and our brain immediately reacts to it. Did I just hear that? What's going on? But then we get into that cycle of like, what's my role and what should I do and what should I not do? I think we need to start bracing ourselves that we don't have to charge into conflict to actually make a difference.

And so I think we need to start telling ourselves if this happened to someone in our life. What can we say? And for me, I always say, come up with a very easy framework, like a question you can ask that puts the power and shifts the focus to the people that's going on. So a simple, is everything okay over here?

Because what that does is it puts eyes on the situation. Mm. So now these people know either I am paying attention to call out the behavior. Or I'm paying attention to let you know I see it. And if you need someone, I'm right here. Mm-hmm. So a really simple, simple question. Is everything all right? I think speaks a lot to the room.

Right? 

And then the other one is, uh, I am sorry, I don't mean to invade in your business, but it just seems like if you need support. I'm here. 

Mm-hmm. 

That's, that's enough for right there. It mattered because a lot of people feel like they don't know how to engage in situations, especially if it's dangerous.

In no way am I promoting that you put yourself in a dangerous position. Sure. You're just asking a question. A bystander doesn't necessarily have to be the person that changes the whole um, moment. Mm-hmm. But you can definitely chip at that moment. Mm-hmm. And I think people think it has to be a grand gesture, 

right.

To make a difference and 

Yeah. 

You know, with our type of trainings, we always say. It doesn't matter if we're performing for five people or 500 people, there's someone in that room that needs to hear that message. Mm-hmm. And they may not make eye contact with us. They may not come up to us and ask any questions.

Yeah. 

But if you're asking questions, um, to the mass Yeah. Of, you know, what do we need to do to look out for people? Right. Or we need to say things like, for anyone that's ever experienced trauma, uh, or a sense of harm, we're so sorry. That someone wasn't there for you. Mm-hmm. But you don't have to carry this burden alone.

Mm-hmm. And I think these simple statements 

Yeah. 

Are what. Prevent people from really engaging, you know, you don't have to have a degree 

mm-hmm. 

To be a good person. Yeah. You don't have to be certified in that field. Right. To make a difference. It's the small things that, um, chip away. Mm-hmm. At us feeling like we don't need to be a part of it.

Yeah. Do you think it would be safe to say, just by taking any action to like pause the moment? Like maybe if you're not comfortable saying, is everything okay over here, could you just. Distract. Like, let's say if you're in a store and, um, you see domestic violence or something in the next aisle, what can you do?

Like, if you're not gonna be likes, say I'm a, I'm, I'm me, right? So I'm a woman, I'm at myself over here and there's this big dude over there, you know, yelling at his wife or whoever, you know, like, uh, you know, I would be a little bit afraid to be like, Hey, is everything okay? 

Of course. 

So what could I do to distract, or what would you suggest?

I mean, an easy thing is come up with a, a distraction is ultimately like a tiny little white lie, right? Mm-hmm. Hey, I'm looking for the pasta. Do you happen to know what it is because you're trying to disrupt that moment, right? You're trying to disrupt the concentration of what's happening over there.

Yeah. 

I think something we always forget too is the power of numbers. 

Mm-hmm. 

And so, yes, I'm by myself, I'm shopping, or maybe I'm with, uh, my small kids and I don't feel comfortable putting anyone in harm's way, including the people I'm trying to talk to. Right? Yeah. 

Yeah. Right. 

Immediately going and getting someone else.

Excuse me. There's something going over there. Yeah. I was wondering if you can just stand with me. I saw this amazing video of this woman jogging in the night and she stopped, um, what I'm assuming was, um, man who was recording them himself and said, I feel a little nervous running in the dark. Do you mind if I just run next to you?

It was the most simple. I need help and this person creating a space of, mm-hmm. Yeah. We don't have to engage. We don't have to, but Sure. Who is to say that that woman doesn't deserve to go exercise and that's what time she can do as well. Yeah. So power in numbers is all about safety. Mm-hmm. So if you're not comfortable putting yourself in there and creating a distraction mm-hmm.

And it is at a public setting mm-hmm. Find someone who you can be next to. You don't always have to take on, um, that moment by yourself. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what's, um. Is very intimidating. Mm-hmm. And we wouldn't expect, you know, a young child to do something like that. Yeah. We tell them sure. To ask for help.

Mm-hmm. So where is that core foundation, those basic things that we teach children? 

Mm-hmm. 

How do we lose them 

over 

time? 

So 

it's true. Yeah, I loved your example there as well as I keep going back to the show, um, that I saw with your actors who were acting out the different scenarios and then the students trying that out too.

Every situation of course, is different and it doesn't mean, like you said, that you have to put yourself in danger, but doing something, something. 

Mm-hmm. 

Where you still feel safe, it could be something as silly as like, I am. In the next aisle and I spill something on purpose and make some noise.



Yeah, yeah, 

yeah. 

It's worth it. Yeah, it's worth it. Absolutely. And you know, with the, the power of our bystander interventions, it's all about encouraging people to be brave, um, uh, when it matters most. And that could be 10 seconds. That could be 10 seconds of like, instead of walking to the car because I recognize something, I'm gonna go out there and just put eyes on this situation.

Mm-hmm. I'm gonna spill that milk to make a distraction. I'm gonna bring in someone just making the choice versus getting in the car, driving away and just thinking, I don't know what could have been in that situation. Because we have to change the perspective. We, we know that people that are, um, involved in.

Um, violence or abusive relationships, there's a lot of tunnel vision for everyone. Mm-hmm. Trapped in there. True. And there's a cycle of shame and, um, guilt and self-doubt of what's going on. Mm-hmm. Having someone break that concentration mm-hmm. Is just one more ally. 

Mm-hmm. 

They could be a total stranger.

Mm-hmm. But it's one more person saying, I see you. Mm-hmm. And I just want you to know I'm here for you. 

Right. Right. And I think too, like a lot of times we forget, we can call the police, like 

Yeah. 

And they actually want us to call them. Like I've talked to them and they're like, you actually pay taxes for us.

Mm-hmm. 

We're here to help. So like you can call us. Um, 

absolutely. 

Yeah. But there's one situation that I think of where a family member shared this with me and she said she was at, I can't remember what it was. A bar or something like that. And out in the parking lot started all this commotion and it was domestic violence.

Mm-hmm. And this guy was actually kicking his girlfriend or wife or whoever. And so, you know, people started yelling and like yelling for help and all that stuff. And she realized that she could have just called the police, but like, like you said, it's that tunnel vision.

And so, you know, it's a safety issue. So Yes. Mm-hmm. As you are doing something to distract, you can call 9 1 1 and make sure that somebody knows that they're calling 9 1 1. 'cause a lot of time with the bystander effect, like you just think somebody else is gonna call the police and nobody does. Yeah. So you can literally point to somebody and say, you call 9 1 1.

And then as you're going out there and like honking horns or like, like you said, getting more people to come out with you and yell 

mm-hmm. 

Like distract or something. Right. 

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, it's not easy and sometimes, um, even call, I like how you said you call 9 1 1. I think what's important about that is a lot of us freeze in those moments because it is atrocious to see something happen in front of us.

, The best reality we can have is to never experience that. It's gonna come in different forms. But. To have someone else kind of delegate in those moments of crisis also makes a difference, because even being a witness to that type of treatment, it's easy for us to freeze up. 

Yeah, especially if you're a victim already and you've been through something like that.

Yeah, 

a hundred percent. And it's just not easy, you know? Uh, there's a reason we're all attracted to each other in this type of work is because we don't have to explain the why. That we're involved in there. Mm-hmm. Our story comes much further out. 

Yeah. 

It's knowing that there's another person trying to make a difference.

Yeah. And any contribution that we can make to protect people mm-hmm. Is exactly what we should be doing. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I think. Everything going on in the world, no matter what this is, this, this, um, podcast could come out in five years and whoever in five years is gonna know exactly what we're talking about in five years.

Mm-hmm. The world constantly changes and it constantly shows pain. 

Mm-hmm. 

And what we need to do is figure out these small ways for us to survive. 

Mm-hmm. 

And for me is rather than feeling the weight of everything. It is, how can I make a difference here? 

Yeah, 

exactly. And that's why I say whether it's five people or 500 people in our performance, there's someone that needs to hear that.

Mm-hmm. And as horrific as it is, but this is why I like the storytelling. We show extreme examples, never any violence. Right. We are very G rated in that sense. 

Yeah. 

But what we do is we, um, you know, get to the edge of the cliff on purpose because we want people to be like, well. She did take the drink.

It's like, great, let's talk about that because you're gonna ask that question when you hear about someone in your life or um, a celebrity or an athlete mm-hmm. Where they get into hot water and you know, now we're in that blurred consent conversation again. Right. Let's talk about it here with these hypothetical, pure praxis practice characters.

Mm-hmm. So you can kind of get those questions out. 

Mm-hmm. 

And really start to think about, am I. Contributing to the conversation? Mm-hmm. Or am I adding to the problem with rightness? Am I, um, uh, confused on statistics? Mm-hmm. Am I, mm-hmm. Stuck in the algorithm of mm-hmm. Uh, you know what my social media is telling me.

Yeah. There's just so many ways that we can open up conversations and I feel like doing this and allowing the audience to reflect and figure things out and figure out what is happening in front of them 

Yeah. 

Is the easiest way rather than force feeding education to 

them. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And I love too, how you were.

Clear on no victim shaming. So the, the gal 

mm-hmm. 

Who was assaulted, it was not her fault no matter what. Yeah. She would've done, it's not her fault. So 

I appreciated that. I know. And, and the reality is, thank you. And the reality is not only do we say that, we also say in our training that they were sexually assaulted.

And we have to add that caveat because even with the evidence in front of us mm-hmm. Someone could say, well, we didn't. See what happened when the scene ended right there. So we always add that because of course, a big message with our sexual violence, um, and response training is believe the survivor.

Yeah. 

Believe them. Yeah. That's the number one reason why people don't come forward. Believe them. 

Yeah. 

The strength it took to open up and talk to you in that moment for you to cast doubt. 

Right. 

Because it's easier for you to think that they're lying. 

Mm-hmm. 

Or embellishing the truth versus to know someone in their life has assaulted them mm-hmm.

And violated them. Does not mean you should fall into that. Mm-hmm. Um, belief. Mm-hmm. 

. Yeah. Well, I loved our. Conversation. This is so good. I think that all schools should have something like what you provide because I mean, I love our, both of our approaches, so mine is a real life story and kids are always like, what the, like they hear my story and they're just like, what?

I mean, I was like that. 

Yeah. And then they wanna know like how, okay, so. They always say like, miss Mandy, I never would've guessed that about you. So how, like, how did you get through that? And they wanna know that. So hearing a real life story from a real life person that it really happened to.

But then also your work where you are showing them like, this is what's happening. And like you said, you keep it G-rated and I appreciated that. Mm-hmm. Because as a victim it didn't trigger me. Um, but I still got the picture of what was happening. Um. But actually helping them work through that, you know 

mm-hmm.

Themselves was so great. So I just think, you know, there are different approaches that we can take and, um, you know, having all of these options are so helpful and I just really loved seeing in person what you guys did. And, um, how do people follow you, and how do they. Have you come out to their school, what would they do to get in touch with you and ask about that?

How does that work? 

Yeah, absolutely. Anybody can find us on social media. We have a really big presence on Instagram. LinkedIn as well. On a lot of our pages, we try to highlight some of our work because. We use performance and actors. We try to give a little snippet of what it is, but we want, as you can tell, people to experience the whole process versus know the Easter eggs of everything.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because it makes it for a much more honest conversation. But you could find us on any of those handles, or you can contact us through our peer. Uh, dot com page and, uh, you can speak with me. We customize all of our work, and I think that's what's really important because while inspired by real experiences, the scenario should be carefully constructed with the client.

It's. What is a conversation that your students are struggling with? Yeah. Or, or even your faculty. Right. 

Right. 

We wanna make sure that they know these are the conversations and the situations that your, uh, students and your athletes and your, uh, you know, mentees are going to be engaged with.

Mm-hmm. So we need you to be prepared for those conversations. Mm-hmm. We have a really good program called. Are you sure? And it's for faculty and mandated reporters really. Um, ultimately who are all great people, but we make mistakes if we're not prepared. There's that cognitive burden again, right?

Mm-hmm. We, we are so shocked with the reality that someone in front of us is in pain. We wanna fix that. And what a better way to fix that than to, oh, it never happened. And so we title that program. Are you sure? Because it's easy to accidentally ask questions that could bring more harm. Oh gosh, yes. So whether it's students or faculty, we are, uh, creating the conversations that need they need.

So it really taps into what they wanna accomplish for their trainings, but also it avoids Retraumatize. Retraumatization, 

yes, that's. So important. I can't even emphasize that enough, it's hard enough when something happens to a victim. But then for them to finally get the bravery to go and ask for help, and then for somebody to say, to not validate them that 

mm-hmm.

That's making it. So much worse. To validate first is so important. So I'm glad that you mm-hmm. Provide that training. And I know a lot of times, you know, in a workplace, they're like, yeah, yeah, we've seen the sexual. Harassment videos and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Blah, blah. You know?

But yeah, that's what you guys do, is you bring it to life and you actually Yeah. Work through the thing, so they're like, oh yeah. Like, I didn't think about that.



So I love that.

Yeah. No, and I think it's important, you know, the characters should be multidimensional. Mm-hmm. They shouldn't be like, oh, we see who the bad person is.

Oh, we see who the good person is. Mm-hmm. We need to know that there are. A lot of gray areas. Mm-hmm. That everyone is flawed in different ways. People make mistakes where in hindsight you're like, well, if they would've never done that, we wouldn't be having in this conversation. Mm-hmm. It's like, well, if we didn't have people looking the other way when people commit these crimes, we wouldn't be in this conver we, I would not have a job if we were doing a better job to take care.

People. 

Right. 

We're not just there to trauma dump and, um, show off our talent with performing. Yeah. We wanna make sure that the work moves towards action, support, and solutions mm-hmm. Rather than us just watching a skit. Yeah. And that's what's really important to us.

Perfect. Thank you. 

Yay. 

So they can follow you on Instagram as pure praxis? 

Yes. 

Or, um, in your website, pure practice.com and then LinkedIn. Do they follow you or also Pure Praxis? Uh, 

no, there's pure Praxis. Okay, 

cool. 

They can, I, they can follow me, of course. Kelly Fle or mm-hmm. Um, peer praxis, but my last name's hard to spell.

So just go with the pure process. 

Yeah. We'll put all of that in the show notes so people don't have to worry about it. Cool. Well, thank you so much Kelly, and I am just cheering you on in your work. Um, I just think it's so fantastic. So thank you. 

Thank you, Mandy. And same to you. Keep up the messaging and I think it's just, you know, we need more of us getting out there and helping people know that their stories matter.

And if we can be on the prevention side, wonderful. But I think it's. Even more important to be, um, a positive response. So yeah, exactly. I'm, 

thank 

you. Happy to be in your company. 

Yay. Thank you so much. 

Of course. 

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