Understanding Panic Attacks: Tools for Relief and What NOT to Say to Someone Struggling

Hear real tools that actually help during a panic attack AND find out what NOT to say to someone who's struggling.

In this episode, I sit down with certified life coach and author Tom Seaman to talk about what really happens in the brain and body during anxiety and panic and why fighting it often makes it worse. Tom brings his expertise on panic attacks and anxiety in the context of chronic health conditions, sharing practical tools, mental models, and compassionate approaches to help you navigate the hard moments and build real resilience.

This one is full of grace, hope, and tools you can really use! Listen and share!

In this episode you'll learn:

• The difference between anxiety and panic attacks
• What your brain is actually doing during anxiety and why it's not working against you
• Practical tools for moving through panic: curiosity, distraction, movement and more
• Why self-compassion and naming your feelings are more powerful than you think
• What NOT to say to someone struggling with a panic attack and what actually helps

RESOURCES

Tom Seaman's website and Instagram

Tom's Books:

Diagnosis Dystonia, Navigating the Journey

Beyond Pain and Suffering, Adapting to Adversity

Dr. Claire Weekes:

Hope and Help for Your Nerves — Dr. Claire Weekes' classic, groundbreaking guide to breaking the anxiety cycle 

Pass Through Panic: Freeing Yourself from Anxiety and Fear — her original 8-part radio series, narrated in her own voice 

Connect with Mandi:

• Website: WomenAwareAndPrepared.com
• Take the Free Intuition Quiz WomenAwareAndPrepared.com/Quiz
• Instagram: @WomenAwareAndPrepared
• LinkedIn: Mandi Pratt

The primary purpose of the Women Aware and Prepared Podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute advice or services. Please use common sense for your own situation.

Transcript

 

Hey, brave one. Welcome to the Aware and Prepared Podcast. I'm your host, Mandy Pratt, trauma-informed, resilient speaker, domestic violence victim advocate, and narcissistic abuse survivor. Here we keep it real with true crime stories and real world strategies to prevent emotional and physical harm. My guests and I share a mix of insight and survivor grit, all to help you feel safer, trust yourself more deeply.

And live with greater peace and power. Let's trade fear for freedom and step into the peace that you deserve. 

 

Hey, welcome back to the Aware and Prepared Podcast. I am so excited today because we have a very special guest. And this is going to be a very different topic than what we normally talk about, and I feel like this is gonna serve you so well. So I'm super excited. So we have Tom here. Hello, Tom. 

Hi MAndy, how are you?

Thanks for 

having me. 

You're welcome.

So Tom Seaman is a certified professional life coach in the area of health and wellness, and the author of two books, diagnosis Dystonia, navigating The Journey and beyond pain and suffering, adapting to adversity and life challenges, he is also a motivational speaker, a health blogger and member and volunteer writer for chronic illness bloggers network, the mighty and patient worthy.

today we are here to talk about anxiety and about surviving panic attacks and understanding those better because, Tom, in your realm, you're talking about these through the lens of chronic health issues.

And then for me, I'm talking about them through the lens of trauma survivors. Because a lot of times what happens is our body, is handling all of these. Difficulties. And it can only take so much. 

So Tom, you and I have something in common, and this is how I found you. So we both have a medical diagnosis called dystonia.

So for those of our listeners who are, probably very many of them have not heard of this, how would you describe this diagnose. 

Uh, dystonia. The border down medical definition would be, uh, a neurological movement disorder characterized by uncontrollable muscle spasms, contractions, tremors that cause any part of the body to, um, be in a position that is off center, so to speak.

, In my case, I have what's called cervical dystonia. So I have dystonia in my neck and it's improved significantly in the last 25 years since I had it. Um, my head used to be completely locked in position over to the right and turned a bit with very forceful muscle contractions that prevented me from turning anywhere at all.

I've done a lot of different therapies. A lot of them have not been the more traditional approaches

 So essentially it's a contraction of muscles. And it can create, for most people, most common symptom is pain. And it's not just in the area that is affected, but it's also in potty parts that are supporting it.

So it's involuntary movements and it overlaps many of the symptoms of Parkinson's. Essential tremor and other spasticity based movement disorders. 

Right. Yeah.

And it gets worse with stress, doesn't it? 

As does every health condition.

Yes. Everything gets worse with stress because that affects the autonomic nervous system, which puts the body into increased adrenaline, increased fear, increased worry, muscle rigidity, decreased circulation, which will cause the body to, um, what we're gonna talk about today is panic and fear and worry and, anxiety.

So yes, there's definitely a chemical change when we have, stress. 

For sure. Yeah, and I also have cervical dystonia. , And I have a lot of pain in my back and my shoulders, so I'm often using heat for that.

And then I also take a muscle relaxant to also help with that along with the injection. So I'm thankful that mine is pretty well controlled. All of that to say, that's how I met you.

, I bought your first book, diagnosis Dystonia, navigating The Journey, um, and read through that. And then I get your emails, which are super helpful. You don't only talk about dystonia, you talk about. Chronic pain, chronic health conditions and, that's what you help people with.

You're a life coach and you help them through that. So, today we are here to talk about anxiety and about surviving panic attacks and understanding those better

so when we have a panic attack, it's like an alarm, emergency alarm going off and your body's going, Hey, you can't repress anymore here of this trauma.

Or you're struggling with a health condition and you need help,

I really wanna talk about this because, you know, we have different listeners here, so we might have, um, parents.

Who are trying to help their teens through anxiety. Or we might have, young adults listening to this who are going through anxiety, um, and have suffered panic attacks. I also have, um, advocates, I have people who work at schools here. And we all know that students are really, really, really struggling with anxiety right now.

And I think a lot of us are, but I feel like that age group really struggles with that. So I just wanted to provide for them, um, a space to learn more about that and to understand it better and ways to help yourself, um, and to encourage you that you're not broken. So I've gone through different periods of struggling with panic attacks, and we'll share that as we get into it.

Um, but I just wanted them to know what that looks like from other people and how they've gotten through that. So I can share that.

But first of all, tom, if you could share with us, what is a panic attack, really? Is it just anxiety on overload? What are we talking about here?

Let me back up before I answer that question, if that's okay. 'cause what you said about, how anxiety is so prevalent today, and especially with the younger people that are out there. Um, we live in a world that is designed to create anxiety. In fact, we have an entire industry out there with the news and social media and the computer phone we carry around us, is a major source of anxiety for us.

We live in an instant message world.



Um, we are overloaded with information. We are overloaded with not enough in-person, communication with people. For most of us, I will say of any age, but especially the younger, you know, under 30 who grew up with these devices, being anxious is almost kind of normal now.

There's nothing wrong with you. Like you said, there's nothing wrong with you if you're anxious. It is almost part of living today. It's almost part of the reality of life today where it's very difficult not to be. And I don't have the background and knowledge to go into all that happens.

But with the use of these devices we have, we are keeping the brain on alert constantly, and we are getting dopamine hits over and over and over. And when that slows down. Or if we're not checking something and being hypervigilant about different things on the phone,

who liked my comment? Who didn't like, what did they say? You're checking all these things. You're keeping that nervous system alive and you are giving your brain too much of what it can't handle. We're only designed to handle certain amounts of the dopamine hits. Um, so it becomes like a drug state where it's very difficult to be at ease now.

So people are very much more into meditation and mindfulness activities. So many people are medicated as a result of these different things. So a lot of our society right now is built around creating anxiety, and unfortunately, a lot of it is done to draw us in for advertising and money making purposes.

That right there is important to realize that, but our society is designed to do this to us and without care or concern. A lot of it is not our fault. It's the way that the world is now 



So what's important to not blame or shame yourself if you are going through any type of anxiety to the point of panic. And it's important to also recognize that that anxiety is a normal experience.

That is a normal built-in mechanism that is there to protect us. And it has been there since, since we have walked on the earth, it is there to protect us. Our brain unconsciously goes into anxious states or worried states, or fearful states or danger states when it perceives something in order to protect us.

Years, ago, it was the saber tooth tiger, um, that we had to watch out for. And now it's, almost manufactured things like I mentioned, the news and social media and mm-hmm. All sorts of other types of things that we have now created in almost an identity around anxiety.

The first time I ever heard the term anxiety attack, panic attack, stressed out. Was my freshman year in college. Before midterms even started, the first two weeks of school, people were making plans for different times of the year for doing things.

And they said, why don't we go on a little trip here.

October 5th, oh, no, no, I'll be too stressed out. That's when midterms are. So in September, the first week in September, they're already stressed out about something that hasn't even happened yet.

Right? 

So there's this anticipatory anxiety we've created in our minds we have to be very careful about the words that we use and how we characterize what anxiety is and, and taking it on as an identity because everybody has anxiety, all to varying degrees.

One little tip that comes to mind for people dealing with anxiety. Be careful about taking it on as an identity and something that steers you into or out of doing something because you don't feel comfortable doing it. There are so many things in life that you're going to experience where you're not feeling well and you're not feeling comfortable.

And you may be nervous that you're now saying, well, this is anxiety, and anxiety is dangerous. 'cause it can create panic and therefore I cannot go out to this restaurant and hang out with my friends, or I can't do this presentation in class, or whatever it might be.

That's where we need to reel it in and say, hang on a second here. And question these thoughts and these feelings and let ourselves know, Hey, this is normal. I'm just nervous. I'm just, you know, haven't done this before. I don't have much practice doing this.

So with practice comes comfort. , So anxiety itself is normal. The problem so, so anxiety and panic, that's when we become afraid of the sensations that we are feeling that often will create panic. So let's take for example, when you have anxiety, you have increased heart palpitations or just increased heart, beating.

Sweaty palms, maybe a churning stomach, maybe some weaker, shaky legs. And if you become hyper aware of those and become fearful of those symptoms, that can often turn into panic.



And we feel trapped in a body and we want to run, but running will only keep it alive because we're running, we're not running away from anything because we're taking everything that's in our body with us when we're running.

So it's when we add fear to fear or an emotion to an emotion, or we become, um, worried that there's something wrong with us when we experience those symptoms that I mentioned. But there's nothing wrong with those types of things. There's nothing wrong with a heart racing. That means you have a healthy heart.

So, hey, oh, my heart's beating faster. Okay, I have a really healthy heart. That's one way to kind of turn down when you're feeling the anxiety, other things as well. But for me, anxiety is a natural, just uncomfortableness and nervousness about, whatever it might be for the individual.

And panic sets in when we become immobilized by the sensations we're feeling and our perception of those sensations and what they actually mean versus, when we're, we're anxious, our brain distorts reality and that's when we need to pull back and not allow that to run out of control.

And it comes with practicing mindfulness activities, having certain affirmations or prayers or words or, or activities that we do to either distract ourselves or to either sit with the discomfort and just be with it versus trying to avoid it or. Or run from it, because when we avoid and run from it, that's when panic often sets in.

Exactly. 

That's been my experience. I'm not sure if that you would relate to that in your experiences

for sure. Yeah. I finally started to realize, and we'll get into this, like what do you do about it? But yes, I started to realize I can't control this, you know, it's, my body just runs away with it and I have to just let it pass.

I love that you first of all set the stage with why we're dealing with more anxiety. Um, that was super helpful. And then talking about the difference between panic versus anxiety and. You know, all of us are anxious about something at different points, but when we start stacking fear on fear and when we're stacking the emotions, that's where our brain starts to distort reality.

So I love that you pointed that out. Honestly, panic attacks are not a malfunction.

For myself, I'll just share the different times that I struggle with that. The first part was, decades ago when I was in the abusive relationship and we had moved, , across the country and I was in a , situation and here I was stuck with this person who was emotionally abusive and, it was really difficult and I was working this great job, corporate job out there, but.

Just, I don't know, one day something snapped and all of a sudden I had to run out of the building. I thought I was like having a heart attack or something. I didn't know what was wrong with me, and it was just uncontrollable. And I went out to my car and it passed, you know? And I was like, oh my gosh. Do I need to go to the ER for my heart or like, what's going on?

You know? And so I said I was sick and I needed to leave. And so I got a doctor's appointment, thankfully, because I was like afraid to go back to work I did, get some medication for a short time to get through that.

And then circumstances changed, so I wasn't dealing with that much pressure, anymore at that point. So they subsided. Um, but it took a while. The medication definitely helped so I could walk back into work. Um, but I had to stay on the medication for a while, maybe a year, I can't remember.

Um, but then we moved back home and things appeared to be okay for a while. So it's like my brain got this break. Um, so that was my first experience with panic attacks. And then I, didn't have them for a really, really long time until a year ago. I had one and it was what I feel was medically induced because, um, I was having just a minor surgery on my chin because I had, uh, skin cancer.

So they had to remove that. And so I was scared about like, am I gonna look like I have a huge, like, hole outta my chin? So I was nervous about it already. Um, so I think what you're talking about, fear, stacking on fear, and then I was in there and then they put like a sterilized cloth or a paper over my face, you know, which just showed my chin, which I understand.

But then my heart was racing more and more and more and then, you know, I actually had a panic attack while the guy's, you know, trying to stitch my face back together. And thankfully he knew what to do. He was very calm and very nice and he was like, it's okay. Just it's gonna pass, let it pass it, it will go away.

And so that was super helpful. And then later I was talking to. My friend, um, who's actually my podcast editor, shout out to Andrea, and she knows a lot about health, conditions, and she was like, oh, I wonder if, maybe that was because, they put epinephrine in different things in there.

Um, and I was like, oh my gosh, that is such a good point. That's probably what it was. But thankfully I didn't beat myself up because I had already been through a panic attack, decades ago. And I knew what that was, and I did know that it would pass. And I also just kind of approached it with curiosity because I was like, oh, that's weird.

I haven't had one of those in a really long time. Um, so that was just really interesting to me. But, it's not something that I feel like I have to be medicated for. Like in my day-to-day life, I feel safe and everything's good, you know? So, sure. I have anxiety sometimes about different things, but I don't have panic attacks, so.

Those were my two experiences that I just wanted to share with our listeners so they could see, the difference of the first one was caused by all the trauma. And then the second one was more like medically induced, um, paired with that fear. So hopefully that's helpful to somebody. And the way that I, worked through those was the first one was medication and then changing my environment.

The second one was, just letting it pass and realizing it was a temporary thing.

 Did you know through my company, women Aware and Prepared, I share keynotes and workshops focused on prevention and healing, helping people live safer with more peace. I've been invited to speak at universities, school counselor conferences, the Institute on Violence, abuse and Trauma. Crisis centers, social work, conferences, junior high and high schools, and women's gatherings.

And many more. My talks focus on following and acting on our intuition, setting healthy boundaries and using self-defense as a tool for empowerment. Helping victims and survivors gain their power back with actionable strategies and real resources. If your organization is looking for a speaker who brings both inspiration and transformation visit.

Aware and prepared life, or message me on Instagram or LinkedIn. You'll find the links in the show notes. Let's live safer with more peace for brighter futures.

 

So let me ask you this, when you are, I think this is where people, they often get lost where you say, well, just let it pass.

When you're caught in that anxious panic state, how do you do that? Because as we were talking before about the amygdala and the cerebral, and the prefrontal cortex where the amygdala is, where that's where your emotions and everything are located.

And, 

Generally speaking, the, the amygdala is the part of the brain that I call the, kind of like the outta control, undisciplined 2-year-old. That is an important part of our brain for , expressing and feeling emotions. And then we have the prefrontal cortex where that is sort of the parental part of the brain or the manager of the brain.

And when that is intact and working correctly, then the amygdala is, is under control. And when we start to feel a bit of panic, the prefrontal cortex sort of loses its grip and the amygdala starts to work a little bit more often and it gets outta control. And then if we don't implement, if we don't step in at that point with one of many tools we can use to reduce anxiety, then the amygdala gets out of control a bit more, and all of a sudden the amygdala's running the brain and you are outta control.

So if you're someone who's, who's ever worked with kids or, or is a parent and you had a, a child of any age that. Just sort of, you know, you had a birthday party with a bunch of kids and they all just got outta control and you didn't know how to handle it. Or you're a teacher in the classroom just for some reason, they just lose it.

And you can't, you can't reel it in. That's when panic sets in. That's the, comparison to panic where the undisciplined ones are taking over and controlling things. So, you know, how do we go from just a little bit of that feeling, anxious, feeling, nervous, feeling, whatever we want to call it.

And I think it's really important to be very careful about the words we use because our brain and our cells are listening to every single word we say. So honestly, I don't even like the word anxiety. I just 'cause anxiety then is almost like a precursor word to panic. 

Right. 

And so there's nothing wrong with being anxious, it's just feeling a little bit uncomfortable and nervous.

Mm-hmm. And that's a very normal thing. So for me, the word nervous, um, or uncomfortable doesn't hit me as hard and settles in me that an then anxiety. Yeah. Um, kinda like the word worry. Mm-hmm. So we overuse the word worry,

so let's just say you had some chores to do today that you wanna do around the house. You wanted do some laundry, you wanted to vacuum, you wanted to go grocery shopping. Well, you couldn't get to your laundry. So you say, oh, I didn't get my laundry today.

I'll worry about that tomorrow. Okay. Why are you worried about doing laundry? Why are you choosing the word worry? About doing laundry, which you've done a thousand times before. Why not just say, I didn't get to the laundry today, I'll take care of that tomorrow. Mm-hmm. And then it's not something that's, by use of our words, something that we have to add to our list of worrying.

Right? It 

sounds a lot 

less stressful. 

We overuse all of these words, and I know it sounds trite, but there's so much to the words we use. 'cause the brain is listening to them. And if the brain hears the word worry, it goes on alert and says, worry, danger. And then that's when that little amygdala starts to get a little bit more riled up.

In our autonomic nervous system, the sympathetic part of the new autonomic nervous system is activated and kept alive. So the words we use are really critical. So

how do we just let it pass? How have you done that? What are some techniques that you think, and I have some too. I was just curious just to sort of see if we're along the same lines with how we manage, 'cause letting it pass is one of the hardest things for so many people.

My brain is racing and running and going and how do I stop that? It's just, I'm off the tracks now. How do I just let that pass when I am running 90 miles an hour down the road?

And I can't stop.

Yeah. 

So, so what do you mean by letting it pass? And what are your ways of that, that you utilize to kind of allow yourself to experience it and allow it to come and allow it to go? 

Honestly, that last time, I really feel like the doctor helped me and reminded me, you know, it'll pass.

Just let it, run its course. In retrospect, I guess maybe even counting like 1, 2, 3, 4, and helping me focus on that instead of, ah, like we can make this go away or something. Um, that, and then, curiosity. Thinking of it like, Hmm, this is interesting.

This is, you know, that kind of thing. I know I have a friend who really, really struggled with panic attacks and she told me that she uses Altoids, you know, those really strong mints. 

Yeah. 

And so she carries those in her purse and when she feels one of those coming on, you know, she puts that in her mouth and like, woo.

If you've ever had one of those that'll like knock you off your feet. Those are super strong. So, um, to me that would be a distraction. 

Yeah, those distractions and interruptions are really good techniques. I had never thought of the Altoid one.

They are, yeah. If anyone who hasn't had one, um, they are super, super powerful. Mm-hmm. They'll definitely wake you up. 

I should put those in the show notes. I'll give you a link to the Altoids. 

Altoids, yeah. They're really good. Okay. Um, yeah, so, so, um, something you said there, which I think for me has become really helpful with regard to dealing with, with anxiety, panic, fear, worry, um, whether it's surrounding a health issue, pain, um, or just the challenges of life, which is what my entire second book is about.

Mm-hmm. Um, in fact, I think it actually is, I actually like it better than my first book. The other one's more specific for dystonia. This one is about how to live with all of the challenges that come our way. And it covers everything we're talking about plus tons more. It's all about how to.

Mentally approach these different challenges of life that that can cause us to be living in a, in an uncomfortable, unsettled, grounded world. About techniques for dealing and living with, with groundedness and feeling in control versus feeling like the world or your emotions and feelings are controlling you.

Right. And one of the key things that you mentioned, I think was curiosity. And the thing about curiosity is it shifts us from being a judgmental, shameful, frightened person going through a normal anxious state into one of the third party observer that's looking at this going, wow, this is really fascinating how my body is, you know, because I'm nervous, my hand is shaking.

Mm-hmm. That is fascinating how the brain makes. It's becoming aware of it without trying to, um, to avoid it or, ignore it or just even distract from it.

It's just becoming aware of it and saying, and then when you become aware of it, , then ask yourself a question is, why does this worry me? What am I frightened about? Mm-hmm. Is this really something that I need to be afraid of? Mm-hmm. Is this really something that is dangerous? Is this really something that is worrisome?

And if it is, then act accordingly. But to prevent, I have found that amygdala from taking over, and there's other brain structures as well, but from allowing those racing thoughts and those fears and emotions and taking over is to question them and. What are you doing here? And is this really something I need to be really worried about?

Mm-hmm. And if so, why? And if so, what do I do about it? 

A lot of people who live with, anxiety, feel it in every situation they have. And they could be sitting, in the comfort of your own home watching TV on your couch covered up in a blanket with a hot cup of tea or whatever you find comfortable eating some dark chocolate or some ice cream just relaxing.

But inside you feel as if there's a bear knocking on your door ready to attack you.

And for people who don't know who Clara Weeks is, she is an Australian doctor who is considered by many to be the pioneer of modern anxiety treatments. And she's written a bunch of books. Uh, one book she wrote that's really good is called Hope and Help for Your Nerves.

And she has an audio program that is called Pass Through Panic, which you can see the program actually on YouTube. So if you search pass through Panic on YouTube, the entire like two hour program is there.

And the one thing that she emphasizes is how these symptoms that we experience, the. The churning stomach, the palpitations, and the, racing heart, shakiness and other things. She said that the way to, and I've used these techniques with success and I know many others as well, is to let them come.

Let yourself experience them. Let yourself feel all of it. Sit with it, be with it. Allow it to come, allow it to go. It's almost like how they talk about meditation. You know, you're trying to calm the mind and relax and, and your mind is always gonna be thinking something and some thought of them through that you didn't even, expect to come through and you just allow it to come without judgment and then it'll pass just as quickly as it came.

Mm-hmm. Unless we hang onto it and we resist it. And we overthink about it, then it will stay with us, but 

mm-hmm. 

There's nothing unhealthy about all the physical symptoms a person experiences when they're having anxiety. 

Yeah. 

It's when we resist them that we create what is called sensitization, and that's where the nervous system becomes overreactive due to that prolonged stress that, uh, and reacting to, to situations with exaggerated intensity.

And then we enter a stage of bewilderment when that's when we don't really understand what's happening. We start worrying about all these different things and we're baffled by all of these symptoms, and we become afraid of these symptoms. And then the fear of that fear or the fear of those symptoms, that's what causes us to fight it and creates a vicious cycle that then turns into that, that panic.

Mm-hmm. So, for me, what I have found to be very helpful is to face. That fearful feeling, don't avoid it or hide from it, or run from it. Just just be with it. Sit with it. Don't run or distract. Accept that you're just experiencing, a physical sensation without judging it or trying to force it away and telling yourself this is not dangerous.

And questioning if this is this really dangerous, there's no bear at my door trying to get in and get me. Mm-hmm. I have become sensitized because I have put into habit a certain way of thinking that has created, um, this internal feeling that tends to be, you know, kind of my way of being now.

And I live in a world now that is promoting it even more. Right. Definitely. So then definitely try to, float through or flow through. And find words that are flowing and relaxing and peaceful versus the resistance and the white knuckling that we all like to do. Yeah, exactly. And how can I flow through and feel what I'm feeling and allow time to pass?

'cause just like, we can't take too many dopamine hits, you know, the feelgood, feelgood type of things. We can't take too much anxiety or a panic. They all come and they all go. Mm-hmm. I don't know anyone who's living in a constant state of panic right now. 

Mm-hmm. 

The body has to eventually, uh, release it all.

Right. Yeah. I love how you pointed out, taking judgment and shame and instead turning that around to curiosity. And I would even say, um, I know for myself, like having self-compassion on myself has been such great medicine, for take for example, my instance of having a panic attack while having that surgery on my chin, you know, I can tell myself, Hey, Mandy, you're really scared.

Reasonably so, because you're in the middle of having a little surgery and you don't know, like, what is your chin gonna look like afterwards? Are you gonna have a huge Indiana Jones scar on your chin? You know, you don't know. This is hard and it's scary, so I feel like that is something that's helpful.

That can move us out of that judgment and shame into, hey, you're having a panic attack for whatever reason, you can still have compassion on yourself and say, Hey, you know what? My body's telling me something is wrong.

Um, I'm having a hard time with something. So let's explore that. It's okay, everybody has hard times and how can I assist myself? How can I help myself? Is it to the point where I can't help myself and I need to, have somebody like Tom's help or I need to go to the doctor or, you know, that sort of thing.

So, um, I just wanted to point that out too 'cause I feel like that's something that can be helpful and take it, even further of, not beating ourselves up about that. So, 

yeah, what you said, I'm so glad you did. 'cause I was thinking that too, is to just simply name what it is you're experiencing now.

I'm, I'm scared right now. It's okay to be scared, 

right? 

I'm in pain right now. It's okay to be in pain. There's nothing emergent or dangerous about what I'm experiencing. And if we name it and we look at it and we, that helps us to separate ourselves a little bit from, living it versus just like looking at it and 

Yeah.

My way of thinking is that if we don't talk about what we're going through, we suppress it and we repress it. And that's when we, that's when we have prolonged sensitization and stress and anxiety that creates nervous illness.

Right. 

Um, 

that's when we know to get help, right? Mm-hmm. 

Exactly. Yeah. And the longer we allow ourselves to repress it or resist it. And what they say is, you know what? We resist persists. 

Yeah. 

Um, very cliche thing, but very true. 



In many respects, I think that the more that we allow ourselves to just name it for what it is 

mm-hmm.

I'm feeling this way. Um, and you don't even know you need to go beyond that. 

Yeah. 

But, but add that curiosity to it as well

right. 

It's really interesting. Well, I am sitting here and there's this thing over my face and my chin's exposed and there's people working on me and I'm not in control.

Right. Yeah. 

And that's a big thing is that, anxiety is all about control, I think. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's the feeling of I'm not in control. 

Mm-hmm. 

But. The thing about it is that , there's so little that we can control in this world, , in our personal world, in our own unique universe.



And you know, let just say you're just walking along and, and you see someone who is sitting on a park bench crying.

Especially a child. You see a child sitting on a park bench alone crying. Most people would probably stop, sit down or stand there and say, are you okay? Can I help you? What can I do for you? And they would show tremendous love and care and compassion for that little child. 

Mm-hmm. 

Okay. We all have this little child inside of us, no matter how old we are, that needs the same love, compassion, and attention without judgment, shame, or anything else.

Yeah. You know, hug the kid and let the kid cry and, and find out what you can do to help them hug yourself. You can literally hug yourself, just put your arms around you and give yourself a hug. Um, there's a whole area of work that's done with regard to self-soothing and touching and bilateral stimulation and other things that, that can be done.

And they're very effective, you know, EFT, emotional freedom technique, um, other types of things that are very, very helpful.

The problem is that we often treat ourselves worse than we treat anybody else. True. And that's when we have to ask the question, why, why am I any less worthy of that same love, care, and compassion than I would give somebody else?

And, and we all have different reasons for that. 

If you start shoulding and shoulding yourself 

mm-hmm. 

Then you're just living in self shame all the time and just beating yourself up. 



, It doesn't help with the anxiety and everything else that, you're going through and then that creates just, just pure panic.

Mm-hmm. Now it's easy to, it's easy to, for anyone to get themselves into a panic state. 

Yeah. And I feel like especially people who have been through trauma and they're already in, like their bodies used to fight or flight. Right. Um, I feel like we're already hovering up here and so I feel like for us, it like happens quicker or like it's absolutely more susceptible to that.

, We talked about different tools to help us, when we're going through that. But also, there's tools to help us with anxiety. And I know for myself, like getting that out through my body. Like if I'm about to give a speaking presentation, whether in person or virtual, a lot of times I'll just stand up and like, shake my arms out, right?

And just kind of bounce and shake it out. Like that literally helps move it through the body instead of just telling myself, oh my gosh, like, I hope this goes okay. That's not helpful. But to actually move it through my body, walk down the hallway and come back or do something like that, that helps move it through.

So glad you said that. 'cause that was exactly what I was thinking about. One of the best things to do is to use the body and to shake and to just move and just let your body,

and that's the same thing when you're dealing with this. And that actually, that is because when trauma creates the freeze response, that's one of the, the four different responses we can have, right.

When dealing, uh, stress responses that we have. So most of us are familiar with the fight or flight, and then there's the FA response, but there's also the freeze response. 

Yep. 

And a lot of us live in a freeze response due to trauma or due to prolonged health issues where we feel afraid to move for fear of making things worse.

Right. 

And in nature, excluding humans, animals instinctively go through the freeze response and the release of the freeze response via something called neurogenic tremoring. 

Mm-hmm. 

And neurogenic tremors is the body's natural way of releasing that, that energy from the trauma. So you have a happy little gazelle who's hanging out with his gazelle buddies

and all of a sudden, outta nowhere, a lion comes up and it's chasing one of the gazelle and they're chasing, running for their lives. Mm-hmm. Well, the gazelle escapes. 

Mm-hmm. 

And then the threat is no longer there. Right. The gazelle will violently shake violently, naturally shake, not even forcing. It's just a natural instinctive thing they do.

'cause they don't have the brain power to analyze why this, why that? And. Why did that lion not like me? Why was I the one picked outta the pack versus the other 20? Why, what, what's a, you know, so that's what we rationalize. Yeah. Animals don't do that. They naturally will violently shake once the shaking is over, they go about their business back with their gazelle buddies talking about gazelle things, eating, food, grazing, and they have no memory of the event whatsoever.

Mm-hmm. 

Human beings stop themselves from doing that. 

Totally. 

So there's a technique that's called trauma releasing exercises where you induce neurogenic tremoring to help release the body of those, of the trauma that you've experienced either in the moment or mm-hmm. Over a period of years or a lifetime.

Mm-hmm. 

And there's a whole field of people that are trained in that area that's really helpful. But a lot of us are caught in that freeze state. Yeah. Our body is actually the way out of. Of trauma and anxiety that we're dealing with. We wanna run from our bodies, but our body is actually the answer to healing.

That's such a good point. Yeah. I love that. And that's why we'll get panic attacks because a lot of times we're not moving that through, right? We're not dealing with the regular anxiety and then repairing that with, fear on fear and all those things. Um, so yeah, a hundred percent.

So we've gone over different, multiple tools here, helping ourselves through this. So, we talked about distraction, interruption, even something tangible like, uh, Altoid mint, right? Yeah. Or some people can use essential oil, peppermint, um, you know, I think also, um, orange is helpful with that.

Um, anyway, that's a whole nother. Topic, but, curiosity, we talked about using curiosity. We talked about, self-compassion and we talked about naming your feelings and then I think also the more we talk about it, the better, right? So people now know, yes, I had panic attacks and I'm fine now.

Right? So it wasn't like a life sentence.

, One of the things that's really important for us to manage and maintain, um, keep ourselves from, from living in a chronically anxious state or a, or, or, or a higher level of anxiety, is to use all the things you're mentioning.

To practice them when we feel well, when we're not feeling the anxiety or the panic coming on. A lot of people will only practice these things when they are not feeling well and they're feeling out of control. Mm-hmm. So sometimes, you know, I think when we're feeling our best, that's when we should practice these types of things.

Mindfulness activities , and essential oils and other things make them a way of life or a part of your life. Um, if we only utilize those things, , like breathing exercises, et cetera, or whatever someone finds helpful, if we only use them when we're in that state, then we're not practicing.

I call all everyday living as practice, and then the anxiety and the panic attacks, that's the game. Mm-hmm. Let's say it's basketball. If you only practice shooting your, your foul shots during the game, then you're not gonna be very good. Right.

You've gotta practice shooting foul shots, all the game, all the days before the game itself.

Exactly. So everything you just listed needs to be for people to keep their anxiety down as low as possible, is to practice these things and make them a part of who you are. Make them part of your life. Make them a part of your being. Make them a part of who you are.

Right. 

And then, then they will be more effective in keeping the anxiety from, from kicking in, and then you can use them more effectively when. It gets to be where the train is running off the tracks a little bit. Yeah, exactly. So it's an ongoing practice that we, that we really need to implement,

definitely. I'm glad that you brought that up. So it's how to support ourselves. Deeply how to prevent, um, that sort of thing. Yeah. I love that. And then before we close out, let's just go over what is the worst thing that you can say to somebody who's having a panic attack?

Uh, wow. There's a lot of things. One of the worst things you can say, I think to anyone who's feeling distressed in any way is just get over it. 

Mm-hmm. 

Completely. You're fine. Completely. Yeah. Just, just, oh my God. Just get over it. It's no big deal. Yeah. Everyone goes through this.

It's complete disregard for what someone's going through. 

Yep. 

Absolute complete disregard. And it makes you feel even more alone. 'cause when you're going through my panic attack, you're terrified. You live in pure terror. When I was going through my panic attacks, oh my God, it was like, I felt like I was like dying constantly.

They were just brutal. And I was so afraid I mean, I didn't have agoraphobia, but I was, because of my dystonia was so severe for so many years, I couldn't leave the house, couldn't drive. Mm-hmm. Couldn't, couldn't really do anything.

And, and mm-hmm. Opening the front door was terrifying for me. Just opening the door. 

Yeah. It got to be that bad. And just driving around or walking into a store, I had so many symptoms where I felt like I was going to pass out. Mm-hmm. I was going to have a seizure. I was going to have a heart attack. I was going to have, my head was going to explode if I got caught at a red light.

I, I had to find a way to keep driving. As long as I kept moving, I was okay. But if I got caught at a red light and I was surrounded by cars. I was like, oh my God, my life's over. 

Mm-hmm. 

And it just became so habitual for me to be, to be like that. So, , I bring that up because that was, that's some pretty intense things that I, had gone through, that I worked through by thinking about them differently and going about them differently, and then going out and practicing, okay, I'm nervous at red lights, I'm gonna start going to red lights on purpose I'm going to intentionally go into a situation that I know causes me anxiety and I'm going to do it so that I feel that I'm in control of the situation versus the situation controlling me.

Yeah. 

And that's not the approach that's best for everybody, but that's something that I've found to be very helpful 

right. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. So, yeah. Um, for people who, who don't understand. You've just shared how much that affected your life.

So to just say, oh, you'll be fine. Just get over it is not helpful. Instead, something better to say. Um, like that doctor said to me, Hey, it's using a softer voice. Hey, you know what? This is gonna pass. I'm here. That kind of uh, handling of it is way better than that harsh, you know? Oh, just, you'll be fine.

You know, just get over 

it. Yeah. Because, yeah, and that's why I brought those things up because I would share those things with people and they would laugh at me because for them, oh gosh, they weren't, they weren't going through it. They thought, that's ridic. You're, you're getting nervous at a red light.

That's, that's really silly. Um, , I didn't go over this one bridge in town for five years, six years. I was terrified. And when I finally did it, I had like the worst like. Panic and everything. I was like, oh my God. And then I got over the bridge and I'm like, oh, I did it.

Then I went, oh shoot, I have to go back. I have to do it again. And I, anyway, I did it for two weeks and eventually got to where, um, I was okay with it. So, so a key component as well for people, if you're not getting that, that help from others and you're getting judgment and, disregard for what you're going through mm-hmm.

Is to, is self acknowledgment. Mm-hmm. So after I did the whole thing with the bridge, and we're going back 15, 18 years when that happened. Yeah, every time I did it, even when I didn't feel well, I said, but I still did it. Good for you, Tom. I gave myself a pat on the back. You may not felt great, but you did it and you were fine.

Good for you. That's 

cool. Yeah. 

To this day, every time I go over that bridge or another bridge, I go, I just went over that bridge and I didn't have any problems at all. When I get stuck at a red light and I'm fine, I recognize it and say, good for you, Tom. Look how far you've come. You are really doing well.

Mm-hmm. I'm giving myself the words that I wish somebody else would give me that they don't know how to give me. 'cause they don't know what I'm going through. Mm-hmm. And how to acknowledge it. So self acknowledgment is incredibly important. Um, even if you feel absolutely at your worst when you're going through something, you're having a panic attack, you know?

Mm-hmm. I'm in the grocery line at the, at the store and, and I'm having a panic attack for whatever reason, but mm-hmm. You checked out, you got your groceries, you got in the car, you drove home. You may have been in a fury and you were, you know, terrified that you were gonna die. You still did it. Yeah.

Acknowledge it even if you felt horrible. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

You know, I can think of a lot of things that people can say, but to me the one thing is anything that just disregards it where it's like, and they laugh at you or they just say, just get over it. That's no big deal.

Right. 



Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it's, that's so interesting. 'cause it's very similar to when somebody discloses abuse. The worst thing you can do is invalidate, right? Yep. So it's really helpful to validate, you know, I'm so sorry.

That sounds horrible. I'm really sorry to hear that. And you can even ask them, is there anything that I can do for you? , I'm here for you. Just going through those different things. And then that doctor did, modeling calm as a co-regulation tool if you're in the middle of it, right?

Um, is super helpful. So, , thank you so much for all of this that you've given us is so, so helpful. And I just wanna encourage everybody to know that, healing is possible as we both shared from our own experiences. Um, these panic attacks, these were not a life sentence. These were temporary things.

And, um, we've shared many different tools and resources. I'll put all of this in the show notes. Um, but , when you find that you can't function and you're needing more help, I highly, highly encourage you to talk to your doctor about it, talk to your psychologist about it. And if you need to get medication again, there's no shame or judgment, right?

Um, at all. And then remembering too, that there's people like Tom out there who is a certified professional life coach, specifically in the area of health and wellness. You can read his two books, um, that we mention. I'll put those in the show notes. You can, book, you know, a consultation with him, right?

So, um, Tom, where do we find you? Like how do we connect with you if somebody's interested? And please tell us the name of some of your books again. 

Um, my website, the best way to get me is, tom seaman coaching.com or just tom seaman.com. Both URLs would work 

mm-hmm. 

Uh, to get to my website, which has all my information, which is filled with all the information on coaching.

All the books I've written, I've written several hundred articles on physical and mental health issues. I've got a bunch of videos and podcasts that I've done and resources for physical and mental health, mm-hmm. I got an active blog that's been there for, you know, many, many years now.

So there's a lot of different things you can sign up for my free newsletter where weekly or biweekly I'll send out, you know, some new information. Um mm-hmm. And this most recent one I sent out information on, on anxiety and panic. Mm-hmm. Um, so I don't just cover pain and, and dis dystonia type things. I discuss a lot of things.

I've steered more towards the mental. Uh, emotional daily living aspects of living with a, a physical or emotional, um, health issue, whether it be, short term or, long term chronic type of a thing. Right. And my two books are, my first book is Diagnosis Dystonia, navigating the Journey.

And then my second book I wrote, and the reason I wrote it, um, is because a lot of people read the first book and said, wow, this is really applicable to anyone with any health condition.

So I, so I decided to write my second book. Mm-hmm. Um, for the general Audi general population who are going through any type of health or other life challenge. And it's called Beyond Pain and Suffering, adapting to adversity and life Challenges.

. So, those two are, on Amazon as well. They're on my website. Um, like you said, you can sign up for a coaching consult. We'll do a mm-hmm. A free 30 minute consult if you're interested in some personal coaching, and discuss what your, what your needs are and see if I might be a good fit for you and, and perhaps doing some coaching sessions together and work towards some goals and strategies for how to combat some of the, uh, the health issues that you're, that you're going through.

Mm-hmm. Um, or just if, just regular life challenges, types of things. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and like I said, I have a free newsletter and you can put that out. I know I love it

yeah, I highly recommend. Um, so let me just say your, your website is tom seaman coaching.com, so T-O-M-S-E-A-M-A-N coaching.com.

And then, he's also on Instagram at Coach Tom 12.

So, um, I'll make sure to put a link to his website and, um, all of that there in the show notes so you guys can click on the episode and then read through that and just click the links.

So thank you so much, Tom, for being here with us. Uh, we really appreciate you, what you've been through, and then how you help other people, um, and just being that lived expert on top of being the certified professional life coach. So we appreciate you and thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me. And thank you for what you're doing for so many people and sharing, you know, turning your, mess into a message. Oh, okay. And that lets people know you're not alone. That lets people know that, , life does go on.

Yeah. And it's okay to go through difficult, seasons in our lives. 

And everyone does. And we're not alone, and we're here to help each other. 

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Love it.

Thank you. Thank you.

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