153 Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess: Sixty-Three Days To Rewire Your Mind

We unpack why true change takes 63 days, how short daily steps become automatic habits, and where brain science meets identity-based practice. Benchmarks, accountability, and “energy as currency” make the plan concrete, compassionate, and doable.

• five-step neurocycle clarified and timed
• 21 days to build, 42 days to automatize
• phase benchmarks at days 1, 4, 7, 14, 21, 63
• identity-based habits to anchor change
• accountability partner as a force multiplier
• energy as currency: invest in healthy pathways
• forgetting as a feature to dissolve toxic loops
• simple setup tactics and daily cues
• coaching and neutral thinking for hard days
• health and longevity benefits of consistency

“Go listen to our series on Atomic Habits”

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Chapter 10

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Welcome to What's on Your Bookshelf, a life and leadership podcast where we live out loud the pages of the books that are on our shelves. With your host, Denise Russo and Sam Powell.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of What's on Your Bookshelf. This is our Life and Leadership podcast, where we're living out loud the pages of the books that are on our bookshelves. My name is Denise Russo. I'm here with my friend Sam Powell. We're going through the book Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess by Dr. Caroline Leaf. Today we are on chapter 10, which is really the gist of that we've learned the science, we've gotten the cycle steps, but why it's going to take 63 days to actually get these steps to reinforce change in your mind. Sam, it's good to be here with you today.

Science Meets Habits: 63 Days

SPEAKER_02 2:06

It's good to be here too. And this chapter, like, I just it he just keeps bringing me back to atomic habits. And it's funny because he like in that book, like he's not a scientist by any means, right? But um, you know, he in that book talks about how like there's not really a set data. Like there's some science out there, but there's not really, but she's like on the other side of it. Like, no, no, no. This is this is how your brain works, this is what the data is showing us, this is how like things are formed. I mean, you just got like a picture in here of like you're a neuron and a synapse and all sorts of stuff. Like, yeah, this is there, there are so many days that it takes. And and that's what this chapter is about, is really getting into like what does that look like? So, what does that mean for you and how habits really get formed, how your brain really gets reshaped. And I think there's a little bit of, you know, like I think when I we read the atomic habits part of it, it was like, oh my gosh, I have to sustain this for my whole life. And she still sort of says that, like, you know, because you could easily, if you can change and get to a habit in 63 days, you could also undo that and create, you know, the bad go back to a bad habit. You know, so there, so it's not like James Clear is wrong. Like it is a lifelong thing, but that felt really open-ended and overwhelming to me, right? Of like, oh my gosh, I'm exhausted, even getting started because now I have to do this for forever. But she sort of gives a little bit of relief in this, I think, of yeah, like two months is nothing. Like 63 days, like I can handle something for two months. And then at that point, how much easier is it? How much is it part of an actual like new bridge in my brain that I've created? So I I really enjoyed this chapter, but I just like as soon as we started it, like I've just like hearkened back to atomic habits, like so much.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Here's the important thing about this too, is that there is no start and end, like there might be a start and an end to that one traumatic thing that you're dealing with, whether it's stress, burnout, relationship issue at work or home, whatever it is. But this is kind of like have you ever had a day, Sam, where you do the laundry and it's all done and everything is put away. And then suddenly everybody comes home with a bunch of dirty, smelly clothes and dumps them on the floor, and you suddenly have more laundry again. Uh-huh.

unknown 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

And you're like, God, I just finally got the laundry room clean and now I got to start over again.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

It's a good analogy.

Relief From Overwhelm: Two-Month Lens

SPEAKER_01 4:33

And so that's what this is about. It's that this is a lifestyle of detoxifying your thinking. And yeah, there's gonna be more laundry tomorrow and it's gonna be dirty, but you have a washing machine, and you just you just have to get this to be part of your daily living. And so she really starts out with this by talking about okay, those five steps, they only take those gather, reflect, write, recheck, active reach, we kind of talked about last week, they only take between one and five minutes a day. And so the hard part about this, I think, is that you have to be very regimented to be able to get this to work. And this is the part I'm a little bit afraid of, Sam, for myself, is that if I don't make the time and really set the intention to do this, can I really go for 63 days, knowing that even if it is only one minute to five minutes long, for day one, that's what you do. And then on day two through 21, you do the same thing. And day 22 to 63, you increase it to seven minutes. And like, can I really do it? And so I want to try, but I want to be realistic that sometimes you may find that it's gonna take you even longer than the 63 days because maybe you just don't get into this habit. And maybe you're working through, she says, what if you're working through multiple thoughts? But actually, you're just working on one that has a lot of little branches and leaves off of it that are problems to the main, the main thought. It's sort of like when you're talking about the five whys, there's a root cause to that original thought. What's the original thought, not just all the extra thoughts that come from it? But the new way that you want to think about your situation is what's going to give you peace. So if the end result for you is that you want more peace, then you have to find a way for these days to spend one to seven minutes in your whole total day of however many minutes are in a whole day to go through this.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah, she said like you need to block anywhere from seven to 30 minutes every single day to do this. But like, think about the outcome. Like, think about the end of the two months, right? Like you have embraced something, worked on something, and completely rewritten the neuropathways in your brain so that you are now in a healthy space. I'll invest 30 minutes a day. 30 minutes is nothing. And then as you get to like days 22 through 63, you only have to drop down to step five. So it's one to seven minutes. Like it get becomes less, but you have to do it every single day. And I think that's where like I'm glad we read Atomic Habits first, because he talks about how do you go do these things, right? How do you set the stage? The three minute rule of like, how do you get started? How do you plan for it? Right. Like if I was trying to, you know, work out, like I lay my clothes out the night before, I get dressed in those first. Like, how do you do the things that sort of set the stage for you to spend the 30 minutes that you need, seven to 30 minutes that you need on this to change it? But it's like, how much do you want it? Right. And I think that that's where I go back to like that identity-based habit. Who do I want to become? Right. It's not that I want to work out more. Like, that's not the goal. The goal is I want to be someone who is active. And that is worth pursuing 30 minutes a day, right? That is worth investing that time in. And so I think that like, um, if you haven't read Atopic Habits, definitely do that. Go listen to our series on that. Because I think that was a longer series for us because we just got it. We loved it and we got really into it. Um, but I like that we had done that previously because I feel like that almost sets the stage for it. You can do this. Yes, it's it's hard to spend 30 minutes. I don't spend 30 minutes on a day right now that I should on things, right? Like I should have 30 minutes a day where I'm like working out and I don't, right? And so it's like, oh, if I can't even do that, can I do this? But like that's where I think you've got to use some of those tools from atomic habits of who do I want to be, right? What pain do I want to alleviate? And what's that identity I want to have on the far side of it? And know that like it's just only gonna take me six, I'm just gonna be every day, but it's only 63 days. Like, I get like, can you do this, Sam? I can do this, Sam. Like, like it's like, come on, get it together, Sam, be the Sam you want to be. And you're gonna have to spend time to do that. And and so, what's it worth to you, right? Like, what's it worth for you to make that happen and make that change in your life?

Lifestyle, Not A Finish Line

SPEAKER_01 9:05

And sometimes it's really hard to do it by yourself. And so the second thing she says is get an accountability partner. I think of our show together. Would I have re picked this book back off my shelf? I told you I bought this book years ago when I heard her first speak, and the book sat without the spine cracked. But one of the great things I love about having our show every week together is that you are my accountability partner because I know that I not that I'm obligated, but in a way, in a good way, I am accountable to you. That if I don't read these chapters and I'm not prepared to come to a conversation, or that I don't already have stories in my mind that I want to share, or that I'm not coming with my best self, then that is not a good use of your time. And I often, often, often think about how time in our life is so tremendously more precious than anything else that we even have in life, because you can never get any more of it. So when you choose to invest your time with someone else, whether it's at work, on a task, with your team, with your leader, with the people that report to you, please hear me. Time matters. And the time that you spend, waste, or invest, it matters. And so if you're gonna change your thinking, find an accountability partner that's going to help you get to these 63 days to not just change your thinking, but change your health and change your life, change your longevity, change maybe even the trajectory of whether or not you're going to get heart disease, stroke, diabetes, high cholesterol, uh, shortened um tenure of your life. Yeah.

Daily Steps And Time Blocks

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because like you can't buy more time, but maybe you can, right? Like by doing this, you could potentially buy more time, more healthy time because you're less susceptible to diseases to turning on some of those genes that we've got. Like I've got genes I don't want turned on for sure. Right. And so it's, you know, like you can almost buy more time in some ways. Like, you know, there are things that happen and and you can't, right? Like, I think I know that better than anybody in some spaces, but you might, you just might. And like, what is that worth to you, right? Like, what is that investment? And that's gotta be the focus. And that's why I really liked the identity-based habits concept of like, who do I want to be? And how powerful is that thought, right? It has to be more motivating than not doing it, right? It has to be, you know, it really just has to be that in order to do it. But yeah, it she gives you the make it fun. I love the account, you know, you know me, I love accountability buddies and you know that space, but make it fun. Remind yourself of the physical benefits. Look back and review, you know, the clinical trial. Go back and scare yourself in the first half of this, right? Like those are the things that kind of can help you. And I think that that's when it's like you're getting maybe to the end of your day, and I skipped all that stuff that I'm doing. And it's like I just will not let myself lay down until I've spent the time here and I can use maybe one of these things to make myself do it, right? And it's that I think this is that self-leadership part of your life that really does get you where you want to go. And, you know, it's why I spent so much time talking about it on LinkedIn and Substack and all the places and every conversation is, you know, you've you've got to be the leader of your life. You're the only one. Nobody's coming to save you. And it doesn't take that much time. 30 minutes in the grand scheme of things is nothing. And we talked about when we were talking about moving into this second half of this book, and I talked about it's like little by little and then all at once. That's what this is. This is little, this is seven to thirty minutes a day, little by little, every day. And then suddenly your life is different and you're you're you know, you're doing what's let's look at what that looks like. Like let's look at the the 63-day cycle and you know what that really means. Because I think understanding the days and the markers that she says, she says the markers are, you know, day one, day four, day seven, day 14, day 21, and then day 63. And there's certain things that happen and that you feel in those spaces.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Yeah, there's certain benchmarks. And so those benchmarks, I want to encourage you to just go look at them because what those are is like not exact days. That's why she gives like a number of days, but where you'll start to see changes. It's sort of like Olivia and I recently did something called a Daniel fast, and it was for 21 days. And the first day was easy, and then the second day was still kind of easy, but then it got really hard. And then eventually, and like you said, almost suddenly it felt not hard anymore. But it wasn't until much longer into it that we felt like, oh my gosh, we actually are eating healthier and we don't want to eat not healthy things now. And so this that this benchmark section of the book goes into what you might you be feeling, thinking, experiencing along the road to your brain healing. And you'll start seeing challenges and barriers as opportunities. You'll start to feel more in control, you have more overall life satisfaction. Like those almost sound like the disclaimers when you look at um uh commercials on TV that are trying to sell you a drug, like you're gonna be happier, you're gonna be more satisfied, but also you might have diarrhea and uh palpitations. Uh, but if you consider the unhealthy thoughts that cause brain damage, wouldn't this really be worthwhile to really just try the 63 days? And I say that yeah, there's a lot of science then that she goes into it. So she says she can't say it enough. It takes 21 days to build a long-term thought and 42 days to automatize the thought into the habit. And so you just you can't stop, you have to focus. Your short-term memory does have the ability to become a long-term memory by following the system. You're a systems person, you're a process person, Sam. So you know that if you follow the process, follow the process, follow the process, eventually something will break through. And that your short-term memory, if we know, only lasts about 24 to 48 hours, but you really want it to last a lifelong, then that short term has to become long-term by you doing that thing, like treading that pathway over and over and over until the pathway is so tread that you can see it clearly.

Identity-Based Habits And Setup

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like it's so interesting, right? She talks about like on day one, you get like this apprehensive excitement. Like it's the I'm gonna start like it's the beginning of January when we all join the gym, right? It's like, yeah, okay, I'm a little apprehensive. I don't know how to use all the equipment, but like I'm excited to be here, type of a thing. And then she said, by day four, right? The middle of that first week, you're you've got like increased awareness. And I think it's just what you said, like by day three, you're like, oh, this is this is kind of hard. This is, hmm, I don't know about this, right? And um, you know, she talks about like the the science behind like what's going on in that space. But then she says, like after a week, and this is day, like you're doing things daily, remember, right? So you get to like insightful satisfaction, like this is going somewhere, right? Like I something's happening here. And by 14, day 14, like two weeks in, you have a definite sense of excitement. Then by day 21, you've got a strong sense of resolve, commitment, and determination. And then days 22 to 63, you have a sense of peace and mature realization. And so, like, if you think about that, like I'm thinking about changes I've made in my life, and like that that tracks for my own experience of like, okay, I'm trying to do things differently. This is sort of what it like, it's that kind of up and down of like, okay, I'm not so sure. All right, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Okay, I can, I can see where this is going. But she talks about like what's really happening, like behind the scenes. And I find that fascinating, of especially like the 21-day, because that's the number of like that we hear a lot of like what's going on then. But that's where like your long-term thoughts really become embedded in memories. And like physically, you can see this happening in your brain. Like you can see the shape of your thoughts change and adjust and like it's a physically measurable, observable thing, which I think is fascinating. And she, you know, we talked about this on like the negative side of it, but this is like that, okay, when you take control and you do stuff, what's happening? Like, that's crazy to me. And so it's like that at that 21-day mark where we start to feel like things are really going on. And, you know, she says that, you know, you have a strong sense of resolve, commitment, and determination. It's that things turning into a long-term thought and like embedded memory, which is just, I don't know, like really cool. But you can't stop there, which is the interesting part. That's the what's the 63-day bridge? And that's the work that needs to be done to turn it into an actual habit. And again, like you have to, you have to think and understand what a habit really is because we mess this up all the time. We're like, I have a habit of going to the gym. Like, no, like the habit are the automatic things that happen, right? This is rewiring your brain, rewriting how it works. This is, you know, I reach for the coffee pot as soon as I hit the step. Like, right, as soon as I come downstairs, I go straight to the coffee pot. It's an automatic bridge that I've got in my head. And that's that difference of like the 21 days to the 63, is like, it's a long-term memory. I can remember to do it in 21 days, but when it becomes that automatic change, movement, feeling adjustment, that's what it takes. That's what's so critical about that deepening period in the 22 to 63 day range. I I found that super fascinating. Like, I don't know, is there something what were your thoughts on that? And I know you had heard it before when you heard her talk, but yeah, have you ever experienced that?

SPEAKER_01 19:10

What I really want to experience is if we could have a machine that would show all these little things in our brain changing, because that part which is like emotions, be super interesting because she talks about how all the things that Sam just said, as far as these amount of days, this is what happens, is but then she goes in and she says, and here's what it looks like inside your brain. Yeah, there's this little node that happens, and then there's a little branch that comes off of it, and then you could see this other thing changing. I would love to see by going through the 63 days, like I already know the thought that I want to be able to change in my life. I wish that I could see the picture of my brain so that I could say, wow, it's validating, it's really happening. I can I could see that this thing is actually changing inside my brain. But we have to just know that after the 21 days, you're you're building this new thought. And if you can imagine that it's sort of like, have you ever gone out in your yard and suddenly there's weeds? And you think, where did they all of a sudden come from?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Like I live, I live in western Pennsylvania, and that's just essentially our entire spring and summer. Like you blink and there's more weeds, it's just very wet and growth oriented here. Like, so yeah.

Accountability And The Value Of Time

SPEAKER_01 20:20

And they just seem to like pop out of nowhere, and then suddenly they're overtaking your yard. And so this is like the same thing is that you the things are growing under the ground, they're going to pop up. But do you want weeds or do you want flowers? And what are you going to do about taking care of your lawn? And so the first 21 days is you're building this new thought. The 42 days after is you're practicing what you have built. And then she talks about how in the 63 days, there is something called forgetting. And in fact, in the LD space and LD world learning and development, we talk about something called the forgetting curve. And that's really around how our short-term memory doesn't allow us to retain certain things. It's sort of like a thought comes in and a thought goes out. But this forgetting that happens along the way is also just proteins in our brain that disappear or strengthen and hold on to these little spaces inside our brain, and that your thoughts evaporate. If you get this right, like if you have a negative thought and you want it to evaporate, the main way to do it is you don't think about the negative thought. That sounds easier than it is, but you have to prioritize those positive thoughts on those, on those pathways that we talked about last week. And you just you don't just start, you have to sustain to have change. And that we have to remember, learn, and change. And that those three things remembering something, learning something, changing something, those things are in your control. They're in your hands. You can stop blaming everybody else or all the circumstances around you because you have the ability to nourish your thinking and stop feeding the weeds. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

I think that's just like that's fat, like the science behind it was fascinating, right? She said your thoughts literally convert to thought, like to hot air, right? Where you're spending time, where you're spending your energy literally shows up in your brain. And that and that forgetting part of it is, you know, is is key. Like you want to forget this, these like toxic cycles you're in. You want those to dissolve out. And you don't want certain things to be forgotten, right? You don't want the healthy habits, the healthy way of thinking, the healthy pathways to be forgotten. And so you have to spend time and energy on them. And that's that's that it takes, it's it's an always thing, right? That's what James Clear's talking about. About a habit is like you're you're setting it up for the rest of your life. And she starts this chapter about this is lifestyle, right? This is about learning how to use this cycle, learning how to go through these 63 day processes over and over and over again for all of the things that you you need. And like you said at the beginning, like sometimes it's not just one. 63 day process. Sometimes you like you get to the root cause, you're solving that one. And then it's like, oh, what about this part of it over here? And it's like, okay, I need a whole other cycle to do that. And then there's something else. And that leads to the next one. It's like breadcrumbs, right? One leads to the next, leads to the next, leads to the next until you're deep in the woods, you know, where you want to be.

Health Stakes And Buying More Time

SPEAKER_01 23:28

She calls something the plastic paradox here because it would be easy to do this if all you ever had in your life right now was one thought and that you were going to just work on the one thing, but we have life. And so have you ever been like to the airport or somewhere where you have to get onto a train and it's really super crowded and everybody's pushing because they're either getting off or getting on and there's nowhere to sit and you don't want to touch the disgusting germy handles that are inside of it. And so there's this competition for do I get on, do I wait? If I get on, is there going to be room for me? If I get on, is the person next to me going to smell bad or whatever the situation is? It's like with our thoughts is that you have some smelly thoughts. You have people, you have thoughts that are pushing you, you have some negative thoughts that are trying to prioritize getting to the front of the line. And you need to push yourself to get to the highest level of thought. And she says, which involves facing and pushing through adversity and therefore channeling your energy. So if there's somewhere you need to go, you know you're going to get on that train and you're going to find your way to make a space. It might not be comfortable, it might not be ideal, but it's going to get you to where you ultimately are trying to get to. A couple of years ago, I was in Paris with uh with Quinn for we were at an ICF conference and we've decided to go to Disneyland one day in Paris. And it's so awesome because you could take this train that's really inexpensive right to the front door of the park, which I wish they would figure out a way to do that in Orlando. But anyway, it was so just uncomfortable and crowded, and everybody was pushing and shoving, and it was just, it was not um a happiest moment on earth to be on the train to get to the happiest place on earth. And and yet we had to endure that short-term experience, and it was also affordable to be able to get to where we wanted to be, which ended up being like one of the best, best experiences ever. So, in summary, if you have these memories in your mind and you want them to be usable, that takes energy. So if you're gonna decide how am I going to like imagine energy as money, how am I gonna spend my energy? Do I want to spend my money on negative energy and negative thoughts, negative thinking, things that isn't getting me anywhere? Or am I gonna spend that money or invest that money in the positive thinking, the positive things in life, the direction I want to go in, the area, the people that I want to be around is sort of even like iky guy, right? You want to be doing something you like that you're good at around people that you like being around and doing something that makes a difference. And so if you're looking at that, what happens is unfortunately, just like we learned in atomic habits, after the first week of people trying to learn how to fix these traumatic thinking patterns, they stop. They stop going to the gym, they break the resolutions, they stop going through the experience. And so, right now, like for me, I was talking about this fast that Olivia and I are on, and she was gonna do it for 21 days, but I wanted to go for 40. So when her day was done, she's like, Okay, I'm going to have french fries and a hamburger. And I was like, But I'm not done yet. And I wanna, I wanna keep going. And so you have to become daily and consciously aware of what do you want and what outside influences are you going to allow to interrupt what you want.

Benchmarks: Days 1, 4, 7, 14, 21, 63

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's like that. Um I don't know. I think this is why I love coaching so much, because it is that like starting with where you want to go and who you want to be, and like really setting that vision and then working towards it, right? It's that I am so clear on where I'm headed and why I'm headed and what why that's so important to me that like the hard work in this arc to get there over this neurocycle or over the period of time that you're working on is foundationally set and grounded in. Okay, I'm not done when the 21 days are up. I'm done when this becomes a new pathway, a habitual neuropathway in my brain so that I have dealt with this thing. I have changed this toxic thought, this negative cycle that I'm in into something that is manageable, is healthy for me, right? I and I even like shy away from saying like turning it from negative to positive. Like to me, it's turning it neutral is good enough. Like, right? Like I'm a big fan of the book, um, It Takes What It Takes, which is all about like neutral thinking and getting into like, okay, how do you buckle down into this like just healthy state? And like and I think that coaching is just like that's what I love about working with people. That's what I love about helping people in like a pure coaching space of helping them get so grounded and clear that the work, even when it's hard, is just refocus on that. Why are you doing this? What what did we write down about that at the beginning, right? What was that vision that you set for yourself? And okay, what do you need to do in this moment that's hard to push through, to become that person that you want, to become that healthy version of yourself? And like, it only takes 30 minutes like to change your life this significantly, like seven, and it could take as little as seven minutes. Like, let's like let's get it real, right? Like it doesn't even have to take 30. Seven minutes. I can spend seven, I waste a lot of seven minutes in my life. And if that's all it took to turn turn this into something like beautiful and real and the life that I really want, like it should be a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Well, and you've spent 30 minutes listening to us today. So next week, we're going to lay out how the rest of the book is. Um, and that actually, if you are following along in the book, we're gonna cover really the last page of this chapter, which sets the stage for what's coming next. But think about it. If you are following along, if you're listening to our show, the 30 minutes that you invested with us is the amount of time that we're talking about. And for me, this time with you, Sam, always goes by super fast.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

It does. And it's always, I think, one of the things that helps me stay on the trajectory of the life that I really want. And I don't know. I was just in a networking event yesterday and I went to one last week. Um, it was a women's business networking. We have a women's small business association that I'm a part of that I really, just really, really love. And um, I was passing out our QR code business codes that uh Scott made for us back in the day. And um, I was like, we'll change your whole life. Like we're cleaning up our mental messes, like come join us. Um, so hopefully somebody is here from that. But uh I don't know, like I said, these 30 minutes, these 30 minutes you and I spent together are amazing. And I think somebody investing 30 minutes in themselves is always worth it.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

I think so too. Sorry for that emergency little beep on my phone. Vincent called me and I was like, oh, I have to press stop.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Life is calling. That means it's time to wrap it up, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yes, it's time to wrap up. My son is calling, and so I have to go grab the phone with him. But friends, if you're listening to our episode today, thank you so much for joining us. My name's Denise Russo, and on behalf of my friend Sam Powell, this has been another episode of What's on Your Bookshelf, and I'm gonna do it.