The Intentional Disc Golfer
Unleash your disc golf potential with The Intentional Disc Golfer podcast! Join us as we dive deep into the physical and mental aspects of this incredible sport, helping you become the player you've always dreamed of being. We're here to elevate your game, share expert insights, and inspire intentional growth on and off the course. Support our mission by becoming a part of our avid listener community. Together, let's take your disc golf journey to new heights! Email us at theintentionaldiscgolfer@gmail.com to support or be featured on our show. Let's tee off towards greatness!
The Intentional Disc Golfer
Change The Way You Disc Golf Forever By Using The Ultimate Human Skill: With Joel Turner
What if the secret to elevating your disc golf game isn't about physical technique at all, but rather mastering what happens between your ears? Joel Turner, renowned mental performance expert and founder of Shot IQ and Mind IQ, joins us to share revolutionary insights that will transform how you think about the mental side of disc golf.
Turner blows our minds with his explanation of what he calls "the ultimate human skill"—the ability to get loud in your head with the right words at the right moments. Through clear, practical examples, he breaks down exactly how your internal dialogue controls your disc golf performance, from those frustrating putting yips to executing perfect drives under pressure.
We dive deep into the science of open and closed loop control systems, revealing why trying to fix your form during a throw almost always backfires. Joel shares the mental game equation that applies universally across all human performance: understanding where, when, and how to direct your conscious mind into specific tasks at specific moments. You'll learn why focusing on a chain link during putting works (and it's not just about aim), how to overcome anxiety on the course, and practical drills to practice getting louder than your thoughts.
What makes this episode truly special is how immediately applicable these concepts are. Whether you're struggling with inconsistency, tournament nerves, or those inexplicable moments where your body won't execute what your brain intends, Turner's frameworks provide clarity and solutions you can implement immediately. The conversation moves seamlessly between detailed disc golf applications and broader life skills, showing how these same mental techniques apply to everything from professional performance to managing everyday anxiety.
Ready to change more than just your disc golf game? Listen now and discover how to harness the power of your own voice to transform your performance on the course and beyond.
Disc Golf Changes Lives <3
To support this podcast or arrange for an interview please contact us at theintentionaldiscgolfer@gmail.com
Welcome to the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast, the show dedicated to helping you elevate your disc golf game with purpose and strategy. Whether you're stepping up to the tee for the first time or you're a seasoned pro chasing that perfect round, this podcast is your guide to playing smarter, training better and building confidence on the course. We are, brandon and Jenny Saprinsky, passionate disc golfers, here to explore everything from technique, course management, mental focus and gear selection. Grab your favorite disc, settle in and let's take your game to the next level. Intentionally.
Speaker 3:And thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast.
Speaker 4:I am one of your hosts, my name is Brandon and I'm Jenny, and I'm waiting for you to talk like a pirate again, yar.
Speaker 3:First of all, we'd like to thank the fans, because the fans are the reason we can do this, they make this all happen and they're the reason that we keep going. So thank you out there to all of our fans, and if you would like to become a fan of the show, please like, subscribe, share, tell all of your friends. You can find us on all the social medias we got Facebook, instagram, x, tiktok, youtube Just search the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast or at the Intentional or, excuse me at the IDG Podcast. At the IDG Podcast, you can also go to our website and send us a text right from there. Right click on the upper left-hand corner where it says send us a text and we'll get that. And you can also email us directly at the intentional disc golfer at gmailcom. That is, the intentional disc golfer at gmailcom.
Speaker 3:If you'd like to support the show, please visit us, visit our patreon. We havea patreon and it is growing with articles. We're going to have some videos up there, hopefully pretty soon, some early access to podcasts. Also some bloopers, outtakes, unedited episodes. So that platform is growing for us. So patreoncom backslash theintentionaldiscgolfer. That is patreoncom backslash theintentionaldiscgolfer. And if we have any bloopers or outtakes we will pin them to the end of the episode Right after the outro music. So please stay tuned for that and maybe you'll get a good laugh. And we'd like to give a quick shout out To our sponsors.
Speaker 4:First of all, we'd like to thank Treasures of the Forest For sponsoring us this year and Salty Unicorns Disc, golf Apparel and Tech Disc and Techarel and Tech Disc and Tech Disc and Tech Disc. And Don't you throw. Want to do a shout out there to MindIQcom.
Speaker 3:Ooh, a little foreshadow as to who our extra special guest is.
Speaker 4:You need like a thesaurus man. I need another word. I said I would give need a thesaurus man. I need another word. I said I would give you a thesaurus. I got a Small vocabulary. Small vocabulary, yeah.
Speaker 3:All right, and how about that community calendar, Jenny?
Speaker 4:take it away. Hold on, I'm trying to find some synonyms for what you're saying. Oh, there we go. How about we go with off the hook?
Speaker 3:We have some Off the Hook we have an Off the Hook guest for you tonight.
Speaker 4:Out of this world.
Speaker 3:Sick, sick, dude.
Speaker 4:No cap man.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Skibbity oh God, don't, Don't, no. No, but our guest tonight is definitely the Riz, wah, wah All right, it's definitely the Riz. Wah, wah, all right, All right, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. Looking at April, so March 30th is going to be the end of Washington Team Golf League Championship down there at Stilly.
Speaker 3:Go Grit City Looking forward.
Speaker 4:to it Grit City Woo Woo. To it grit city whoo. We will be at disking at the depot presented by the west sound disc golf association on a saturday, april 5th, over there at nad park.
Speaker 3:no, yes yes yes, that one's at nad park that's the deep naval ammunitions depot. Nad disking at the depot.
Speaker 4:Haven't had dinner okay and then, uh, we, uh. I will be doing the spring swing put on by the evergreen women's series up at north bend, one of our favorite places to play. That's on april 13th. And then brandon and I will be doing the top dog challenge sponsored by Innova at Delphi on April 19th and 20th. And then we have Sirens of the Springs, part of the Evergreen Women's Series. That is on May 3rd. It is going to be a blast. We have some great sponsors. I'm working on some extras for the ladies as well. And then we have a brother event, tritons of the Timbers, on Sunday, may 4th, for the men. That is to help fundraise and support the women's series. So if you are interested in supporting growing women's disc golf, come sign up for Tritons of the Timbers. And then, a couple weekends after that, is the Disc Golf Pro Tour Cascade Challenge over there at Shelton Washington. I am so excited for it this year. I cannot wait.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, ladies, come out and play the Sirens of the Springs. Jenny puts on a heck of a tournament, she's TDing for it and I'm going to be camping out at the uh tournament central just to make sure things don't walk off. And then the next day, guys, support your ladies. I know you're gonna be out there caddying. I know you're gonna be in town driving the car. I know you want to get your chance to play and support your wives, support your girlfriends, support your significant other others, by playing tritons of the Timbers and making that donation to the Evergreen Women's Series to keep the women's disc golf growing and expanding here in Washington.
Speaker 4:And I want to say a little bit about that Tritons of the Timbers. This is our first you know event that we've put on for the men in the area. I'd love for you to come out and see you know kind of how we treat our players. We want to make sure it's fun for you. We have some fun additional games that we're hoping to play and different ways that we can award you for doing great things and for possibly landing in the hazards. So you know you'll need to come out and see what we're talking about.
Speaker 3:That's right, sirens of the springs.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 3:And tritons of the timbers.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 3:Powered by TechDisc. Know your throw.
Speaker 4:No, where's my no button? No button, what is that?
Speaker 3:Oh, hold on, All right, there you go. Angry squirrel, angry squirrel. Okay, folks, so this episode. We've been waiting a long time for this one. This one is extra amazing. Off the hook, yo, off the hook, skibbity Rizzler.
Speaker 4:Oh, shut, up no.
Speaker 3:I hate that so much.
Speaker 4:Okay. So this episode is one that I didn't think we would ever be able to do. And Brandon goes up and asks this guy if he'd be on our podcast, and I'm all like geeked out about it. And then he actually says yes. It's like, oh my gosh, we have this guy if he'd be on our podcast, and I'm all like geeked out about it. And then he actually says yes. It's like, oh my gosh, we have this guy on our podcast. I am totally fangirling. Brandon's going to be fangirling later too. Just be prepared.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. After a word from our sponsors, be prepared to have your mind blown and your game changed forever.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I pushed the right button. Big news Disc Golf fans. Treasures of the Forest just dropped something special their Mile Marker 63 Minis. These unique pieces were crafted from materials collected, with the help of Simon Lizotte, straight from the course he designed. That means you're not just getting a mini, you're holding a piece of disc golf history. And guess what? They're hitting the road. The Treasures of the Forest Tour starts this week. You can find them at a Florida event or the next month at a Texas event. Stop by, say hi, grab your Mile Marker 63 Mini before they're gone. You can find them at a Florida event or the next month at a Texas event. Stop by, say hi, grab your mile marker 63 mini before they're gone.
Speaker 4:All right, let's talk about a brand that's bringing some serious fun and personality to disc golf Salty Unicorns Apparel. That's right, salty Unicorns Apparel. They started because disc golf fashion was seriously lacking in style, especially for women. What began as a simple search for better apparel turned into something bigger, and in just a few weeks they were outfitting own Scoggins, and now they've got Jessica Oleski, lucas Carmichael and Trinity Bryant rocking their gear too. Salty Unicorns is different because they actually prioritize women's apparel, something most brands don't, and they're not stopping there. Pretty soon, they're launching their own Salty Unicorn bags, bringing that same energy and creativity to the gear you carry. So if you want to stand out on the course and support a brand that's shaking things up, check out Salty Unicorns apparel, because disc golf should be fun, and so should what you wear. Find them online, follow them on social media and bring some color to your game. Use the code SALTY10 for a 10% discount. This is.
Speaker 3:Scott Stokely. Thank you for listening to the Intentional Disc Golfer podcast. On this episode of the Intentional Disc Golfer how can a trained sniper slash bow hunter? Relate to disc golf. Well, this man has found a way, sir. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? Hey?
Speaker 1:folks, I'm Joel Turner with Shot IQ and we have figured some things out as far as movements and the science of the mind and how to think in high stress events. It goes with the science of it, really goes with any movements, and this is going to be a journey for me as well, because I don't know that much about disc golf. But we can take our mental game equation and we can plug it into any movement problem. So you folks are going to be giving me the problems on what you face in a disc golf tournament or just in the movement itself, and we'll be able to hash out. So we understand the mental game of the solution and, uh, it's going to be exciting I am so excited to talk to you.
Speaker 4:I am totally like fangirling over here. I love your episode from uh the jo.
Speaker 1:Rogan.
Speaker 4:I have shared it with a lot of my disc all friends saying, hey, you need to listen to this. And then Brandon said we were going to get to talk to you, so I am so excited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's fun and I wish, I wish that I had the words when I was on the Rogan podcast. But as soon as Joe Rogan says you know, joel, this is applicable to everything in life, I'm like man, joe, I love what you're saying right now, but I don't have the words to explain it. So it was.
Speaker 1:it was only after the Rogan podcast when all these people from all different walks of life start asking me questions like hey, how can you, how can we apply what you do at Shot IQ to our sport and this sport? I mean, I had professional bowlers, professional baseball players, pga golfers, professional drag racers. I had people with anxiety problems, problems. I had the French Olympic decathlon coach call me it was nuts, but it forced me to really buckle down and think about how we actually formulated the sciences and how we packaged the sciences of neurolinguistic programming and visual proprioception and open and closed loop control systems, and how did we take that and put that into shooting? And then, how do we take it to all these other sports? So I had to dig deeper and get like I had to zoom out a little bit and go okay. Well, I had somebody ask me what is the mental mental game? Can you define the mental game? I'm like well, that's a hell of a question.
Speaker 4:Right so it took.
Speaker 1:It took me a little bit, but we figured out. Now we have the definition of the mental game and we know, you know, we know open and closed loop control systems, and we'll explain all those to your, to you and your listeners. But um, and now we know what the ultimate skill of the human being is. Wouldn't it be fantastic to know what that is? Well, we've got it. We're going to bring that to you today too. Oh my gosh, it's going to be a fun one.
Speaker 3:Oh my Whoa, I'm fangirling every year.
Speaker 1:It's going to get deep tonight.
Speaker 3:Great. So, joel, I have to say, like my experience was I was just, you know, a year or two ago I was just listening to the Rogan podcast, just on autoplay, and the episode with you on it came up and instantly I thought to myself I'm like this is disc golf, this is it. The explosive movements, the anxiety, the, the we call them the yips, where you go to do an action and you hesitate a little bit and it ends up throwing off things. I mean, this is it. And I'm like never thought in a million years you'd come on our podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and here you are yeah, so let's, uh's, uh. You know, in talking about all that stuff, you know when that, when that person that I was working with asked me that question, can you define the mental game? And I will ask let's. We'll get into that in just a second, but I want to ask you guys a question okay, absolutely and this is the basis for everything really. Now, if you could give me the one life skill that has gotten you through everything in your life, what would that one skill be?
Speaker 3:Ooh, you can go first, I, for me, I would have to say it would be resilience okay, resilience, that's a, that's a common one.
Speaker 1:Jenny, what do you got?
Speaker 4:I'm I'm gonna go with. Uh, the word that my dad always called me, aside from stubborn, is tenacity. He always called me very tenacious. I'm going to go with tenacity.
Speaker 1:So we've got tenacity. And the other one was persistence. Is that right? Resilience, resilience, okay yeah, toughness. So if I can ask you how to do that, how do you do that? How do you become tenacious, how do you become resilient? How do you do that?
Speaker 3:tenacious. How do you become resilient? How do you do that? Well, for me, resilience is. Sometimes I just have to tell myself that it's like I have a hundred percent success rating at everything, because I'm still here, I'm still breathing, and if I, if I didn't have some level of success, even if it's just incredibly minuscule, I didn't have some level of success, even if it's just incredibly minuscule, I wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 1:But how do you teach somebody that? Remember, this is the skill. I've asked you If you could give me one life skill that has gotten you through everything, and you say resilience or you say tenacity. If I can ask you how? It's not the skill, your resilience or your tenacity is the result of the skill. You just gave me the answer without knowing that you did it. But here it is.
Speaker 1:The one skill that has gotten us all through everything in our lives. It gets us out of bed in the morning, it gets us through the car wreck, it gets us through the pain, it gets us through the argument. It gets us literally through everything is the ability to get loud in your head with the right words at the right moment. That's how you do it. The ability to get loud in your head with the right words at the right moment. That's how you are tenacious. That's how you generate resiliency. That's how you get mental toughness. That's how you are tenacious. That's how you generate resiliency. That's how you get mental toughness. That's how you get discipline. None of it happens without you talking in your head, and you are successful when you have the right words for the right moments. You're unsuccessful when you're not loud enough, or you don't have the right words.
Speaker 3:Or you don't have the right words, or you don't know the right moments and I love the fact that you say you're not loud enough. It has to be all those components together the right words, the right moments and then the right volume right, it's the ability to get loud.
Speaker 1:So knowing that, knowing that is the ultimate skill of the human being, it's the one thing that gets us all through everything. You start to approach your disc golf, or whatever your sport is, in a different way. You are not out there trying to what like what do you call the goal in disc golf?
Speaker 1:the basket, the basket, okay yeah you're no longer trying to hit the basket, you are using your throw. Is that what you call it? Yep, you are. You are using your throw to practice getting loud. You're using your sport, your activity, to practice the ultimate skill. You see what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's a different approach and to take the right approach to that, you have to know the mental game equation, because what happens? Let's work through a yip real quick in disc golf. Okay, okay, so describe it to me, because it's probably similar to the yips and everything else in disc golf. Okay, okay, so describe it to me, because it's probably similar to the yips and everything else. So describe a yip to me in detail, if you will.
Speaker 3:Well, one that's common for me is I'll be 10 feet away from the basket and, for example, that should be 100% when you're putting Yep. It should be 100%, 10 feet away, and not so much when you're in tournament, because it's the high stress, high pressure situation, and one thing that happens to me very commonly is my thumb will get stuck on the top plate of the putter and pull the disc over to the right.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's dive into a real quick concept here. We have to understand that thoughts aren't thinking. Thoughts are what you hear, thinking is what you say, and we know that the ultimate skill is getting loud with the right words at the right moments. Thoughts have no instruction, thoughts have no strategy, thoughts cannot solve the problem. So when you are there putting and you're having the thought of oh man, I should, this should be easy. That has no instruction, that has no strategy. So, as soon as the volume of your thoughts which you have no control over, by the way, you have no control of your thoughts, but you always have control of your thinking, which is your voice, and it's got to be the loudest one in the room. So there you are and you are having thoughts of man, this should be easy. Man, the last time I did this, my frickin' thumb hung up on the putter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the. Don't screw this up. That's the thought that I have.
Speaker 1:Don't screw this up is a thought that is not thinking. If you know the problem is that you get your thumb hung up on the putter, how are you going to fix that?
Speaker 3:my mind is blown. I know I've got all kinds of really vague and weird questions, but it's to spark thinking, right because my traditional answer to that would just be more repetition, more repetition, get it, get it down to muscle memory. It's to the point where you can't screw it up so understand this muscles don't have memory.
Speaker 1:Muscles don't have little brains inside them, right? It's all based on motor programs. Okay, so you're to what's called myelinize a motor program. Myelin is a fatty tissue that lines the walls of the neural pathways, and the one with the most myelin is the primary. Okay, so that's what you're trying to do when you're trying to gain this muscle memory through repetition. Is you're trying to myelinize a motor program? Okay?
Speaker 3:so does that so tissue thicken, or how does that tissue?
Speaker 1:react. It does the, the primary one that you, that you started with your primary movement, is the one that is myelinized first. That's why it's so hard to break it if you screw it up the first time so these things actually are a physical adaptation, not just mental yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:That's how neural pathways work. So we know so so far. We know a couple things. We know that the ultimate skill of the human being is the ability to get loud in your head with the right words at the right moments. We know that thoughts are not thinking. That statement is actually from buddhism. Who?
Speaker 1:knew right, one of my buddies that told me that that statement his brother's a buddhist monk. Yeah, they also came up with the saying it is what it is. Yeah, that's from buddhism as well. Okay, so we know that the what the ultimate skill is. We know that the what the ultimate skill is. We know that thoughts aren't thinking. Now, what I'm going to ask you is what's the mental game of disc golf?
Speaker 3:I think, the mental game of disc golf. I mean there's so many things. I mean there's shot selection, there's uh, you know, do I go aggressive here? Do I not go aggressive here? How am I playing against the card? How am I playing against the card? How am I playing against the course? What are my percentages doing today? I mean there's so many, you know, technical facets to it. But then the psychological side of it is, you know, just try to relax as much Do all these really complicated things, but be as relaxed and loose as possible. And.
Speaker 4:I would answer in a different way, because I've been really focusing on, uh, the, the mental aspect and kind of how disc golf somehow this game, this sport, this community tends to heal people. And where I'm at in my journey with this game is when I go to putt like my yip I. I very vividly remember, uh, we were playing at the course behind our house and I went over to this like he's at a 10 foot putt and I'm like no confidence. I'm like no, we're gonna tailor swift that we're gonna shake it off, so shake it off a little bit.
Speaker 4:And then I try to raise my thinking to this higher vibrational frequency in my head. I go to this place, lift myself up and I try to clear it, and then I just go through my routine of up the pole, down the pole in the basket and putt, and so for me, me, it's all of those things that brandon mentioned, but being in a comfort zone of saying, you know, I've got this, so it's the positive yeah, affirmation.
Speaker 1:So how do you? How do you get yourself to this place?
Speaker 4:so I've had to practice getting to that place, like what Brandon was saying, to mentally figure out okay, how am I getting to a point of frustration? It's easier to say when I'm coming off of it than how I'm getting back onto being in that calm space.
Speaker 1:So would you say that Go ahead. I was going to One thing.
Speaker 4:I've been, so would you say that Go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say one thing I've been trying to also help Brandon with is like, okay, so find a positive and try and get three positives and get back on the track of building through positives. So, even if it was I hit a bad shot and I hit a tree, it's like, oh, but the tree kicked me into the middle of the through positive. So, uh, even if it was, I hit a bad shot and I hit a tree, it's like, oh, but the tree kicked me into the middle of the fairway.
Speaker 3:So that's a positive and trying to get back up there, a disc golf game can unravel on you very quickly, very quickly.
Speaker 1:It's the same thing as a golf game, same thing as any game really. You know sounds like disc golf and golf and archery are very, very similar, just in your sports they don't have the explosion of the bow going off. But the question was what is the mental game of disc golf? And both of you gave me very good answers. But if you had somebody that that said they are working on their mental game, it's this kind of fluffy, vague thing that nobody really knows what it is. You can bring in all kinds of aspects, but if you don't know like if you're trying to play a game where you don't know who the opponent is, you don't know the rules of the game, you don't know when the game starts, you don't know who the opponent is, you don't know the rules of the game, you don't know when the game starts, you don't know where the game's being played, how can you possibly win that game?
Speaker 4:I feel like I'm playing with my niece. It's like honestly right and you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3:I mean, we, we gave you some answers, but they're loose descriptions, they're not right anything so here is.
Speaker 1:Let me give you the concrete. This is the mental game of life, and then you're gonna apply it to your disc golf, okay? So the mental game is defined as understanding where, when and how to direct your conscious mind into a specific task at a specific moment. That is the definition of the mental game. It is understanding where, when and how to direct your conscious mind into a specific task at a specific moment. Holy cow, that's the mental game of everything.
Speaker 1:So now you treat that as an equation and you get a problem, like it might be your yip, it might be a throw down a fairway, who knows what. It is right, there's a mental game for all of these things, okay, so, knowing what the definition of the mental game is, let's start plugging in. Let's take a problem. Let's take your. Let's take your putt, your 10 foot putt, where your thumb is on the top of the drags, on the top of the putter, whatever that creates a problem. Okay, that's exactly right. And understand that a problem is nothing more than an increase in the volume of thoughts. All right.
Speaker 1:So in your putt, where do you want your conscious mind?
Speaker 3:I don't, I want to be completely. Well, what I've learned is to try to be completely neutral and just kind of not like, just kind of like I don't know how do I describe it. It's very neutral.
Speaker 1:If you don't know how to do that, though it's very neutral. If you don't know how to do that, though it's a mystery. Everybody's playing with a mystery involved in their sport. I mean, I've trained the highest level. I mean I went and trained the Philadelphia Phillies pitching team and none of those guys can tell me how they do what they do. Jenny, you mentioned confidence before. What's the definition of confidence? Confidence is understanding how you do what you do. Jenny, you mentioned confidence before. What's the definition of confidence? Confidence is understanding how you do what you do.
Speaker 4:That's a good definition of it. Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:It's understanding. You walk up on a 10 foot putt and you know what you're going to say and when you're going to say it. Remember the mental game equation understanding where, when and how to direct your conscious mind into a specific task at a specific moment. But to understand the where and the when, you have to understand open and closed loop control systems. Okay.
Speaker 1:Let's dive into that real quickly, because it'll make things way more sensible. Open loop is for a movement that is fluid, fast, efficient, like throwing your Frisbee is. Do you call it a Frisbee? Do you call it a disc? What are we calling it? It's a disc. Okay, yeah, frisbee is kind of a c, do we call?
Speaker 3:them. It's a disc. Okay, yeah, frisbee is kind of a cuss word in the disc golf world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, I figured I'm like I don't know if I should say that or what. No no you're good.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the throwing motion of throwing a disc is open. Loop. It's too fast to gain feedback in the middle of it. Okay, loop, you're not. It's too fast to gain feedback in the middle of it. Okay, yeah, so that is in the scientific world. It's your brain sends a motor program, a simple motor program, to the effector. In the case of throwing a disc, it's your arm, or maybe it's your back, or whatever, your shoulder, whatever right, it is a movement that's too fast for you to gain feedback within it, and it's supposed to be that way. You've practiced for years so that it is automatic. Okay Now, closed loop is for movements that are slow enough you can gain feedback within it, like pressing a trigger on a rifle Slow enough you could stop it anywhere within it. Very minute, discrete movements. But there is a. Would you agree with this? Now, this is just me thinking about me throwing a disk. Is there a portion of your throwing motion that is slow enough that you can gain feedback within it? Is there some type of wind-up to it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, there is a Some people do a walk-up where they will walk or run as part of their motion before they throw. Other people just do a standstill and throw from a standstill point. But what the connection I'm making right now is that something Brandon keeps telling me is if something's off when I'm on the tee pad, I need to stop myself, and I have a really hard time stopping myself at that point, unlike if I'm putting and I notice a problem, I can stop there, and I'm presuming that's the difference between the open loop and the closed loop yeah, you don't need as much power.
Speaker 1:But think about throwing a pitch in baseball. Okay, okay, it's got a windup to it. So there's some precursor where you are having to put tensions in the right directions. Oh yeah, right, yeah, so you're. I mean, do you call it a pre-throw, is it a?
Speaker 3:windup. What is it? What do you call it? It's a walk-up.
Speaker 1:It's a walk-up or a walk up, a walk or an x step yeah, okay, so during that portion of your throw, that is the only place that problems can be fixed. People try to fix problems in the middle of the open loop motor program, the throw itself. Like they put speech towards something in that and that's what screws up. It alters the motor program so like if you are, if you're putting and you put speech toward your thumb, it will alter the putt motor program in its entirety and it will screw it up.
Speaker 4:You can't see Brandon's face, but his jaw just dropped.
Speaker 3:My jaw's been on the floor the whole time. Are you kidding? This is mind blowing.
Speaker 1:There are portions of your movement that you have to put your conscious mind into, and there are portions of your throw that you have to put your conscious mind into and there are portions of your throw that you have to keep your conscious mind out of. So now you're going to start to dissect your throw in its entirety. Athletes are scared to death of thinking because it's them putting their conscious mind in the wrong place at the wrong time. Remember the mental game. Equation is understanding where, when and how to direct your conscious mind into a specific task at a specific moment. So let's say, on your walk up, where do you want your conscious mind? And this is going to be different for every thrower so.
Speaker 1:So, brandon, with you, where do you want your conscious mind? Just on your walk-up or in your X step?
Speaker 3:Well I'm, when I'm going through my walk-up, I try to make all my decisions beforehand before I start into the motion and then, um, there is a portion of it where you can stop, like say if, uh, like say if you hear a loud yell or something, and you stop and walk off the tee. But it's pretty much once you go into the backswing, just like a ball golfer. Once you go into the backswing, that is that open loop where you're moving so fast. There's no stopping it.
Speaker 1:Okay, that is that open loop where you're moving so fast there's no stopping it. Okay, so there is a portion of your walk-up that you can gain feedback within it. So if you're having a problem with your throw, you have to fix it in that stage. So are you placing your weight in a different portion of your foot? Are you gripping the disc differently? Whatever right, you can fix problems in that portion, but once you send it, you have to keep your conscious mind out of it. Okay, so let's say that you're having a problem. Let's just go back to your putt. It's 10 feet. You don't need a lot of power, so you can do a lot of this motion as closed loop, everything except for the actual throw motion. Okay, and you know that the problem is in your thumb. So do you have to keep your thumb off the top of the disc? Do you have to relax your thumb on the top of the disc? How do you fix that minute problem?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, I've tried a lot of things. I've tried changing my thumb position as opposed to moving it away from the center disc and closer to the rim. I've tried making sure that I have chalk on my thumb and making sure it's dry. I've even tried to make sure that I have proper flick and proper spin on the bottom of the disc. Okay, yeah, it's getting your thumb to come off the disc at just the right point that it goes forward. Mm-hmm, yeah, I've tried a lot of different things. Okay, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1:Would it help to flex your thumb at all? Flex it so it's not putting so much pressure on the top of the putter.
Speaker 3:Oh, you mean like stiffen it? Yes, you know what. It's worth a try, okay.
Speaker 1:So let's just for sake of argument, argument right, because I'm not a disc golfer yeah, jenny's are my new these are minute movement problems that you have to figure out.
Speaker 1:But now you know the mental game. So let's say that when you stiffen your thumb, it actually releases it correctly. Okay, let's just, for the sake of argument, say that stiffening your thumb is a solution for this problem that you're having in your yip and your putt. Okay, so the mental game is this when do you need your conscious mind? You need it in stiffening your thumb. When do you need it there? Probably before you start your your backswing.
Speaker 3:Okay, so before the motion which is before the motion.
Speaker 1:Right, you can't do it during the motion because you'll alter the motion see what I'm saying oh, yeah, so where do you need it? You need it in stiffening your thumb. When do you need it there? When you do your backswing? How do you need it there when you do your backswing? How do you put it there? How do you put your conscious mind into a specific task at a specific moment? This could also be asked how do you concentrate? How do you?
Speaker 3:do it. I just try to block out everything else and just focus on that. How do you do?
Speaker 4:that. So I'm going to jump in and say it's like my routine. I could see that you, uh, you have to consciously decide how you're gonna grip it and be like, uh, flex the thumb or whatever it is to get that in your head and then, after you've done it, then you can go ahead and do your putt. But how did you get it in your head and then, after you've done it, then you can go ahead and do your putt, but how did you get it in your?
Speaker 3:head. I guess what I'm thinking is like, you know, I'm standing there setting up my putt in my stance, you know, picking my link, and it's like I'll hear a bird and I'll say I'll acknowledge the bird and then I'll be like, okay, the bird's not a problem, I can deal with that, right. And then I can feel the breeze or whatever over my back and I'll be like, okay, well, there's a little bit of wind, I acknowledge it. And then, okay, I can work with that. And I get to this level of acceptance with as many things around me and try to just quiet everything and make those decisions, to not engage with those things.
Speaker 1:So you have distractions, right, as we all do. How do you override the distraction? How do you put your conscious mind in a specific task at a specific moment? What is the how of the mental game equation? The how of the mental game equation is always speech. How do you get it in your mind? Through words. It's the only route. So speech has always been the vehicle that moves thoughts from the limbic system of the brain to the prefrontal cortex, where thinking can occur. The vehicle is always speech. The ultimate skill of the human being is getting loud with the right words at the right moments, right.
Speaker 3:So you're moving that primal instinct into the executive reasoning portion.
Speaker 1:Yes, moving, you're moving that primal instinct into the executive reasoning portion and, yes, the way that you do that is through speech. So the mental game for your putt if we know that stiffening your thumb is the solution, okay, so where do I need it in stiffening the thumb? When do I need it In stiffening the thumb? When do I need it there, before the backswing? How do I put it there? Speech what do you say? Say stiffen my thumb, or now, or whatever you want to do. That equals stiffening the thumb. That puts your conscious mind in a specific task at a specific moment and it keeps your conscious mind out of the movement itself. So let's say that you're not having a problem with a particular throw, like you're going down the fairway or whatever it may be. If it's not a problem, where do you want your conscious mind when you're not experiencing a problem?
Speaker 3:When I'm in that, when I'm, you know, doing something really well, I kind of am like yeah, let's do this, Like I'm having good percentages with this today, Like I'm feeling good about it and I try to focus in on that and use that more, because I know it's working for me.
Speaker 1:So if you know that you're, you know whatever it is working for you that day. What is the thing that gets the disc in the basket eventually? What's the governing body that gets it there? That's part of your body. What is it?
Speaker 4:I want to say thought, but my brain, thought and intention to make it happen.
Speaker 1:It's your eyes. Your eyes are what gauge how much power is put to the disc, where the disc is released. All those things are done subconsciously and it's all guided by your vision. So if you're having a throw that you've got to put a bunch of power into, or whatever, you need to keep your conscious mind out of the throwing movement and the only place it can help you is your vision. So right before you go into your back, your back, throw your back, swing, say see it or you know whatever. If it's a pine cone way down the fairway, say pine cone, whatever, because that will put your conscious mind in vision and that keeps it out of the movement. See what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm going through this in my head as if I know the course, I know the location, I know the shot. And then you said pine cone and I'm like I can see that pine cone in the middle of the fairway.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, you putting your conscious mind into vision keeps it out of the movement. Because the movement is driven by an open-loop control system, it needs to remain automatic. If you put consciousness into it, it will screw up the motor program, it will alter it, and then you'll hang up.
Speaker 4:You'll have a yip that you didn't even know was coming so one of the things that a lot of uh, professional disc golfers and you know you can look on youtube like how to make your throws better, whatever when they're talking about putting one of the things that they tell people to do is focus on one of the links and focus on like that link specifically a chain link a chain link on the the basket it's does. Is that kind of what you're also?
Speaker 1:getting at.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's exactly what I'm saying that puts your conscious mind in vision and keeps it out of so if, like let's say, you're having the yip and you know that stiffening your thumb fixes that problem. So right before you start your backswing, you're going to say stiffen, link, right, you just played two very specific mental games. One you put your conscious mind in stiffening your thumb when, right before the backswing how Speech? Then you switched it, put your conscious mind into the link when, before you threw it how Speech. You see how simple it is. There's only three components to the mental game equation when, when and how.
Speaker 4:So one of the guys I was watching again teaching you know how to make things better. This one guy he uses a cadence and his cadence for putting or for everything is apple pie, and so he kind of he kind of marches to this apple pie, he thinks apple pie every time he throws. And I somehow took that idea with um, uh, someone else was teaching. Like you slide your disc across the table to get it into the basket. So not just the repetition of, say, throwing, not moving, doing 100 putts, but actually going through your whole routine where you say so, for me it's up the pole and I lift my arm up down the pole and then into the basket where I throw.
Speaker 3:And do you say that to yourself when you're putting?
Speaker 4:I do and I realize that when I'm not doing well, I haven't been saying that, right, I do, and I realize that when I'm not doing well, I haven't been saying that right and then. So with my drives, the last round we one of the last rounds we played, the guys were like you have a, you do the same thing every time. So I was thinking about well, what do I do? I pick up my disc, I twist it three times.
Speaker 4:I set my angle on my hand, and then I, uh, do my walk up yep, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the skill is in your speech. It's not in your throw, because the speech is how you're setting everything up mentally. But when you, when you run into a problem, that's when you have to change the mental game. That's when you have to put your conscious mind into maybe your thumb, maybe your foot, maybe your shoulder, maybe your elbow, I don't know right. That's why I go into these arenas of experts and I'm like tell me the problems you're having. And it's very simple. You just plug it into the mental game equation. But here's the thing. Remember, when I asked you what the ultimate skill of the human being was, you told me tenacity and resilience. But that's not the skill. So your skill is not in making the putt. Your skill is in what you say and when you say it, because that's how you're directing your conscious mind into a specific task at a specific moment. When people talk about the best golfers in the world, they all have a mantra that they say all have a mantra that they say they talk themselves through the entire up to the backswing.
Speaker 1:But at the peak of the backswing, that's when they put their conscious mind into a dimple on the ball, a link on the chain of the basket, whatever it is, you're putting your conscious mind into vision, because it's putting it in the only place that can help you and it's keeping it out of the movement. You see what I mean. Yeah, you guys are doing this stuff, but because you don't know how you were doing it, it was a mystery. Yeah, and jenny, you said it. When I didn't say that stuff, it broke down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the skill is in your speech and I've done this in the highest of stressful situations. I mean, I've done it in hostage rescues, I've done it in some crazy, crazy things, right? So it's not. You know, in archery, your job is not to shoot the shot. It it's not to hit the X, it's not to shoot the shot. Your job is to move the trigger slow enough you could stop it.
Speaker 1:The only way you can do that, especially when there's an explosion at the end of the movement, is to talk yourself through it with the right words at the right moments, with the right words at the right moments, but you have to know how to get loud. Like when I was training the Phillies, there was a pitcher that was like what do you mean get loud? In my head I'm like well, I look at the coaches. I said why is this pitcher asking me this question? Because you, as coaches, have obviously never given this player an opportunity to get reps in getting loud. Like when's the last time they pitched a bullpen with 10 other pitchers standing around the mound yelling at them? I mean, it's got to be loud out there on the mound in a baseball game, but if you've never had reps in getting louder than your thoughts, that's when things fall apart.
Speaker 4:Yeah Right, yeah Right yeah. That makes me think of we would have our kids play with us.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:When they were younger, right, yeah, okay, not all they want to do is fight, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this when was the last time that you did a throw or a putt or whatever movement you were doing out there and you spoke out loud while you did it?
Speaker 4:I don't like doing that and I don't like talking out loud. Uh, most of the time, although Brandon tends to talk through verbally things he's doing all the time, yeah.
Speaker 2:I, but I don't know if he does it for disc golf.
Speaker 4:No, I think I, I think it's just other things. But you're right.
Speaker 1:You know you don't do that in disc golf yeah, I, if you, if you don't do it then you don't know what you say, because I'm sure you've instructed people in disc golf and you've maybe walked them through a movement or whatever, and they're like did you, you know, if you're, if you're into this, you know, talking yourself through things and you tell them what to say and when to say it and like, did you say that? Like, oh yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:Like no, I didn't because, you just screwed it up again, right? So you didn't do the thing that we're talking about. So commentary skill building is now known to me, anyways, as the fastest way for you to figure out what you say and when you say it. Because, brandon, if you're doing a throw and you speak out loud when you do it, and, jenny, now that you know about open and closed loop control systems, you know when Brandon should be saying something, and you now know what words he's saying and when he is saying them. So, therefore, you can now manipulate his speech pattern so that he's putting his conscious mind in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we do that a lot with our shooters now, commentary shooting Once you get the full draw on your bow, you're not allowed to stop talking. Now, mind you, this is different than disc golf, because in archery it's closed loop, you're not doing anything fast, so in archery it's easy for them to talk all the way through. It be like okay, now I'm drawing back and aiming, got it. Now I'm going to address the trigger. Okay, I'm going to wrap my finger around, nice and easy, got it. Okay. Now I'm going to increase my presence by saying here I go, here I go. And now I'm going to talk myself through the pressure. Increase on the trigger. Okay, nice and easy. A little bit, that feels good. Yep, Stay in that Squeeze Boom Until it breaks as a surprise, right?
Speaker 1:So there's got to be some moments on your before your backswing where you're talking out loud even if there's nobody there to listen, because your conversation must be born external before it can ever be taken inside. Because if it starts inside and stays inside, you're not managing the volume of your thoughts, something you have no control over. So you have to manage the volume of your thinking, right? Which is your voice got to be the loudest one in the room. So commentary skill building. Just talking out loud will tell you where you're putting your conscious mind and when you're putting it conscious mind and when you are putting it there. And if you need help getting loud, I've got a drill for that too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yell up and yell at the woods. Usually. Usually, my commentary is why the heck did that happen?
Speaker 1:right, which is after the fact, which means that it's a mystery. Yeah, yeah, right. Don't let anything in your throw be a mystery. There's, no, there's no reason for it. I mean, we're out there to to do good and have fun, all these things but you will not gain confidence until you understand how you do what you do, like you should know how you going to throw every disc from now till you the end of your days. It can't be a mystery to you. Yeah, because right now you have good days and bad days, because you don't know how you do what you do.
Speaker 3:You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you understand how you do what you do, there's no reason to have good days and bad days. You just have one controlled throw every time yep yeah it sounds like he's been.
Speaker 3:He's been playing the game for years.
Speaker 4:He's a pro already you know, I was thinking about it on the way home and I was like, you know, I'd like to take him out and go disc golfing and I'm like, but I'm kind of nervous that he'd be really really good right off the bat and I'd just be like you've never done this before, like yeah. Over half the game is mental.
Speaker 3:Oh for sure, way over half oh yeah, there's only so much technique that you can learn. And then at that point it's emotional regulation and decision making.
Speaker 1:Right, and those are all driven by what you say.
Speaker 3:Yep, so you mentioned something in there about increasing your presence. Can you go into that a little bit?
Speaker 1:about increasing your presence. Can you go into that a little bit? So anytime you make a decision, a conscious decision, what decisions do? Is they increase presence. So like, let's say, that you got your little toesies hanging over the edge of the cliff and you need to jump off the cliff. Okay, so there you are and you're like oh my gosh, I don't know if that water's deep enough. That's a thought. Thoughts have no strategy. Thoughts have no instruction. Thoughts cannot solve the problem. So as long as the thoughts are louder than your thinking, you will not jump.
Speaker 1:Okay, so very common verbiage for people to increase their presence so that the movement that gets them off the cliff is the only thing in their world. What do they do? They say here I go. Nobody jumps off a cliff without saying something in their head because it's a conscious override of the central nervous system. That only happens with speech. Speech is the only override that we have available to us. It's the essence of willpower. It's in what you say, right? So that's where the decision here I go is used for a movement that causes impact to the body. So we use here I go. So you can certainly do that before you do your backswing here I go, and that will make your like. If you have to fix something, it will make that fix the only thing in your world. Or if you're just, you're just going to continue with your throw, it makes your throw the only thing in your world. It readies your mind for the for the motor program to be sent down the neural pathway. So that's how you increase your presence.
Speaker 3:So and then you also said at the beginning of the episode you work with people that have like anxiety, performance anxiety and things like that. How do you address that?
Speaker 1:so different mental game. So I'll ask you the question if somebody is experiencing an anxiety attack or like, let's say that they're shaking like crazy or they've got a shot of adrenaline, or maybe this is the part of a lifetime, right, oh yeah, and now all that is, it's a problem. So it increases the volume of thoughts, and anxiety is where thoughts have drastically overridden your thinking. They're drastically louder than your voice. So what's the first mental game of any cerebral problem? Where do you want their conscious mind, when do you need it there and how do you put it there?
Speaker 3:Speech.
Speaker 1:Well, to know the answer to this, you have to know about heart rates. And so when you're having this anxiety attack or you know this shot of adrenaline, your heart rate raises significantly. And if it goes over about 160 for most humans, once it goes over 160, you go into lizard brain. Well, you, stiffening your thumb so you don't have a yip on the putter does not live in your lizard brain, it only deals with fight or flight. So we've got to stay out of the lizard brain so that we can think, because thinking doesn't occur in the lizard brain, it's just survival mode. So the first mental game where do I need your conscious mind In breathing? Because breathing is the way to lower the heart rate. Okay, so, and specifically, I wanted in the, the physiological sigh, which is in through the nose to the top extra through the nose and out through the mouth. That's what we call the physiological sigh. That's from and Huberman, a phenomenal neuroscientist, a very smart guy. I've had the opportunity to train with him a little bit and the physiological side. It's just, I need your conscious mind in breathing. So you do this repetitively, as many times you need to, to lower your heart rate. Once your heart rate is down. Then, and only then, do you have access to the prefrontal cortex, where thinking can occur. Now you can remember. Oh yeah, I'm supposed to say stiff at this point. I'm supposed to then put it on the link on the basket chain, right, because that stuff doesn't live in your lizard brain. So, getting your heart rate down.
Speaker 1:If you're experiencing anxiety attacks, somebody has lost their perspective, so they need to be brought back to reality. And what is happening to them right now? They're not actually dying, but they will never realize that until they get their heart rate down. How do you get the heart rate down? Through breathing, right. So now you're going to start to see things in a different way. You're going to go oh, what's the mental game for this? What's the mental game for that? Right, you're, you're involved in a car wreck and you're bleeding and you need to put a tourniquet on, and your thoughts are oh, my God, I'm going to die.
Speaker 1:Those are thoughts. They don't get the tourniquet on your leg. So you first got to put it in breathing so that you can think. Then you can remember to talk yourself through how to put a tourniquet on your leg. So this is how it works. It's not my opinion. This has taken me a lifetime to figure out. That speech is the key to just about everything, but we package it in. You know, a long time ago it was called neurolinguistic programming, but it was. Neurolinguistic. Program was kind of debunked in the scientific world because it was only used for like self-help and addiction and all this other stuff, but they didn't go deep enough into. This is the ultimate skill of the human being. This is how you think. This is how you concentrate. I'm sure you've told people to concentrate on things before, maybe your kids or whatever. Right it's like just do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but if you've never taught them how to do it, you can't expect them to do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right yeah. Yeah, whoa, no, I'm already Deep man. This is getting deep brother. Yeah, yeah, preach it, keep going. I love it.
Speaker 4:I'm thinking about my game all differently, like well, and I'm going to a different place, as I'm thinking of because I'm a secondary administrator at a uh tribal school in pualap and, uh, like some of the kids that I was working with today, like I'm, I'm thinking about different ways that I could, you know, work with them and get them to go through you know whatever it is that they're going through, and and ways to help the teachers, and and things like that. So Right.
Speaker 1:So when you you know you've you've got a kid that's having a problem in something and you want to extract, you want to know what they're thinking.
Speaker 4:What do you ask them? I usually, well, I go through a whole process of, you know, asking them what happened, what it was that they wanted, what were they trying to do at the time, and try and get them to go through a whole reflection process?
Speaker 1:Do you ever?
Speaker 4:ask them what they're thinking. Sometimes, Part of it is what were you thinking at the time?
Speaker 1:Right? And here's the problem with that is that most people don't know the difference between thoughts and thinking. So, if you ask somebody what they're thinking, they will give you their thoughts.
Speaker 4:If you want to know where somebody placed their conscious mind what they were truly thinking at the time. You have to ask them what were you saying? That's a really good way to put it.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, because most people don't know the difference between thoughts, and especially young people. They don't know the difference between thoughts and thinking. So, asking some of that, what were you saying in your head? And if they don't know what they were saying, then you know for a fact that their thoughts were louder than their thinking and they're reacting on thoughts alone. So just educating somebody on the difference between thoughts and thinking is a huge step in the right direction for them to learn how to control their emotions and their mental control of themselves. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Something that we had to do as a cop. Every single day I dealt with people that their thoughts were loud and they had no control over their thoughts. I get that right, but we always have control of our own voice. Get that right, but they. We always have control of our own voice.
Speaker 3:And again, the ultimate skill is getting loud with the right words at the right moments and I love your analogy about being the loudest person in your in your room. Like that.
Speaker 1:That's so well said and so there's a drill that we have in the Mind IQ course. I don't usually let things out that are in the course, but this is pretty important because a lot of people like that pitcher with the Phillies. He didn't know how to get loud. So if somebody doesn't know how to get loud, here's a quick drill for you. Take your phone out and you put it on stopwatch Like let's do it. Let's do this drill. Are you with me?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, grab your phone.
Speaker 1:Get your phone out and put it on stopwatch. You're going to need two phones. You've got two people.
Speaker 3:Oh, gosh Okay.
Speaker 1:Each of you will need a phone.
Speaker 4:Let's see if it can work on my phone now use this one, and I have a stopwatch on my watch you can use a watch, you can use whatever I'll use that, just so you have a time.
Speaker 1:Just, you have a timer on there, okay, all right, got it yep okay, so we're on. We got on stopwatch, so here's the drill. It's called the empty lung. Hold you, you're going to breathe in all the way. Then you breathe out all the way. Empty your lungs 100% and then start holding your breath on empty lungs. When you start holding your breath, you hit the timer. When you have to rebreathe, you hit the timer again and tell me how many seconds you got oh my gosh, all right, yep, all right.
Speaker 3:You tell us what?
Speaker 1:you're gonna. Okay. So we're gonna breathe in all the way and then breathe out all the way and then hit your timer and you tell me when you have to rebreathe. Hit your timer again when you have to re-breathe.
Speaker 3:Now you should be holding your breath and hopefully you're not like Navy SEALs or something that's going to take like five minutes.
Speaker 1:I'd try not to laugh. Are you still holding your breath? No, I breathed. Yeah, okay, got. What do you got for times?
Speaker 4:I got 16 seconds yeah, 16 like 16 what do you got?
Speaker 1:16 seconds, okay, so as soon as your thoughts got louder than your thinking, you took another breath, you started out talking you're okay and then the thoughts got louder and louder and louder. Right, you start to feel strain in your body and all these things. Strain in the body is nothing more than an increase in the volume of thoughts. So when you, when your thoughts got louder than you're thinking, that's when you took another breath. Okay, Mm-hmm. Now we're doing it again, and you have to get at least 10 more seconds.
Speaker 3:You got to get at least 10. Okay, oh gosh.
Speaker 1:You have to get at least 10 more seconds, so go back to zeros.
Speaker 3:Got this. Hold on your phone code. Hold on One, okay.
Speaker 1:Don't tell us your phone code for crying out loud. It's got a one in it Okay.
Speaker 3:All right, there we go. Okay, we good.
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 3:We're good.
Speaker 1:Are we ready? Okay, breathe in all the way, out all the way. Hit those timers. When you start holding that breath, you've got to get at least 10 more seconds. Like your life depends on it. Oh, it's getting tough. Come on, people.
Speaker 3:I lost. Okay, I got like five more seconds.
Speaker 1:I got like five more seconds. How many more seconds did you get, Brandon?
Speaker 3:I was at 16, now I'm at 23,. So I don't know. Seven yeah, seven, Okay, Jenny. How many more did you get?
Speaker 1:I was at 16 and now I'm at 23, so I don't know. 7? Yeah, 7. Okay, Jenny, how many more did you?
Speaker 4:get, I lost 2. You lost 2? I lost 2. Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay. So if you lost 2, that means that you don't know how to get loud.
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 1:You gotta keep doing this until you get 10 more, because I know you can physically do 26 seconds. Oh yeah, I guarantee you you can physically do 26 seconds. However, you guys don't have a lot of reps in getting loud. Yeah, you're right. Right, this is a way to give yourself reps and getting loud.
Speaker 3:You don't have, like, a hidden camera or anything like in the house, do you like? Me. No, just like yeah, are you watching this? Like it, it's. You just know all this stuff, just intuitively.
Speaker 1:It's, it's well, it's not. I mean, it's just from experience. But when you think about it I'm not that smart of a guy. It's just I'm the master of the unknown obvious.
Speaker 4:I love that do you have a shirt that says that. Because you should. You should help, but I think I need to make one yes I mean this stuff, people, we're looking over.
Speaker 1:It's all right there in front of our faces and we're looking over it every moment of every day. But when you know the ultimate skill, you start to use everything as reps in getting loud.
Speaker 1:The right words at the right moments, and the more you play these mental games, the more you will have the right words and the right moments. You know the equation, so we get good at plugging in. Let me give an example. The French Olympic decathlon coach calls me and wants to know how to put what we do in Shot IQ into the decathlon. Now, this is much like disc golf. I didn't know any of the disciplines in the decathlon. I didn't even know that there was 10 of them, hence the name. So this is after Rogan. This person calls me. They've been the Olympic level coach for 20 years.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 1:Wow. I had a video chat with this person. I'm like, okay. I said give me the biggest problem that you're experiencing in the decathlon with your athletes. And he said oh, I know exactly what the problem is. He says it's with my long jumpers. He says, as my long jumpers are running down the lane, right before they put their foot on the launch board, they put their shoulders back involuntarily, which kills the momentum of the jump. Okay, so I said okay, coach, let's plug it into the mental game equation when do you want their conscious mind? And he said I want it in the longest jump possible. Do you think that's correct or incorrect?
Speaker 4:I think it's incorrect. I think it's incorrect.
Speaker 3:I think it's incorrect.
Speaker 1:Where would you? Okay, let's play the mental game. Where would you put their conscious mind? What's the problem?
Speaker 3:I would put it into pointing my shoulders forward.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. The shoulders right and getting them to point forward. That is the where. Give me the when. When do I need their conscious mind in their shoulders? What specific moment? What's the moment of truth in a long jump right?
Speaker 4:before they get to that board or whatever. That line is beautiful lift off right.
Speaker 1:So now we know the where, we know the, the when. The how is always speech. So as they're running down the lane, right before they put their foot on the launch board, they say shoulders or they say forward, whatever puts their conscious mind into their shoulders and into keeping them forward. That's the mental game of a successful long jump. Who? Knew.
Speaker 3:My mind is blown again.
Speaker 1:So I asked the guy I'm like have you ever? I said how many sports psychologists have you talked to? He's like dozens. I said have any of them ever been long jumpers? He said nope. I said that's the problem with sports psychologists is they're not the athletes. They haven't experienced it so therefore they don't know the mental game of it yeah right, yeah, so I?
Speaker 1:he said well, I've talked to dozens. I said have you ever heard anything like this before? He said no, I well, you owe me a lot of money. I'm sure there's sports psychologists that deal with this golf.
Speaker 1:There's sports psychologists for every sport known to mankind. Oh yeah, but many of them don't know for some reason like this is in every movement textbook that there is. As far as I know the textbooks that I've looked at in researching open and closed loop control systems and then putting them into application, I mean it's in there. The diagrams are nauseating about the M1 and the M2 response paths and all this stuff, and I just make it really simple. But it seems like the sports psychologists haven't even seen this. And if you don't know open and closed loop control systems, you can't possibly know the when and the where of the mental game equation. So if you don't know the mental game equation or the where and the when of it, you don't know how to play the mental game of your sport and you dang sure don't know how to fix a problem you might not even know how to recognize a problem is what I'm hearing from you very
Speaker 1:perceptive. So when I you know, when I was training the phill, I'm like, okay, what's the problem? They're like, well, we got this one guy throwing a cutter and the release point is wrong. I said, okay, well, what are you doing to fix it? They're like we're trying to get him to cut the ball in half with his index finger and keep his wrist flexed. I'm like, okay, where are you having him fix that in the motor program? He's like, well, out there where he does that. Where are you having him fix that in the motor program? He's like, well, out there where he does that. I said you can't fix it out there. That's in the open loop portion. You can't. You have to fix it before his hands come apart. So you got to fix the grip on the ball right. So it's just, you got to have him flex his wrist before he sends it. You can't fix it in the middle because it will alter the entire pitch motor program and that's all towards all kinds of nasty.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of similarities between baseball and disc golf too, because there's a lot of sidearm players. Yeah, throwing motions, loading up the hips and planting the foot.
Speaker 1:Well, I asked them, I tried to get the pictures. I'm like somebody here explained to me how you do what you do and there was nothing I'm like. So you guys are running on talent alone. You have good days and bad days and you don't know the difference.
Speaker 1:That is so my game they're like yeah, that's so, like yeah, yeah, that's true, I'm like well, and coaches, I you know. I asked the coaches, I said what does the mound visit sound like for you? And they, it was silence. And then finally one guy said well, I like to go out there and ask them how they're feeling. I said okay, what do they tell you? Well, sometimes they say they're feeling good and sometimes they say they're feeling bad. I'm like that's a worthless conversation because I said I looked at the players. I said none of you guys know how you do what you do. And coaches, you don't know how they do what they do. So mound visits are nonsense. You can't possibly fix a problem.
Speaker 1:But pitchers, when you blueprint how you do what you do, like you, you know that when you lift your leg, you say the word coil, so it gets you to lift your leg a little bit higher and coil your hips. And then you say MIT, before you send it right, which puts the conscious mind in vision and keeps it out of the pitch motor program. Then you can blueprint that. You have something that is now blueprintable, if that's even a word Right. And so now you know how you do what you do. So if there's a problem, the coach can come out to the mound and go hey man, are you saying coil when you lift your leg? Oh man, coach, I forgot. Okay, let's get back to the blueprint Understanding how you do. What you do is the definition of confidence.
Speaker 3:I'm still just blown away Well one of the things that.
Speaker 4:So you're talking about the blueprinting and I remember that from the podcast that we heard and then you're talking about. So when you blueprint something, you're actually going back through and thinking, okay, so I did this at this time. Here's what I was saying and going through that whole.
Speaker 1:The blueprint is in the speech. What did I say? When did I say it? The blueprint for your keeping your thumb stiff on your putt. What do I say? I say stiff. When do I say it? Right before I start my backswing. And then what do I do? Then I say link, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:So now you know how you do it. So when you're blueprinting, you're just walking yourself through that process verbally, and maybe physically too, and then working out the bugs.
Speaker 1:That's why you do commentary throws, that's why you do them out loud, so that you can go oh, that was good. Okay, what did I say? I said this? When did I say it? I said it at this specific moment To put my conscious mind in this specific place, at this specific moment. You can't run it on talent alone. To put my conscious mind in this specific place at this specific moment and I, you can't you can't run it on talent alone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I loved it when you said you know you're running off of talent and you have good days and bad days, you know, and that is so the the golf game is. You can, you can go out there and you can shoot. You know, six under and have the round of your life and then you can go out there the next day and shoot 20 up. I mean, it's happened to me more than once, yeah, and man is that frustrating when that happens, it's like man, why and this is it- this is it Not my opinion.
Speaker 1:This is it Not my opinion. This is how it all works.
Speaker 4:So I have a question so with this process. So there are some things like I can play the piano but I have a mental block with understanding how to play the guitar. With disc golf I can throw a backhand throw, but I can feel it. There's a mental block in my head anytime I try to do a sidearm throw, which is like pitching a ball, because it's not something that I, you know, have really done. Is there a way I can use this process to kind of break down that wall and learn this skill?
Speaker 3:Remove restrictions and roadblocks.
Speaker 1:Because you're not so familiar with the sidearm throw. You're trying to fix it in the middle of it, and that's what you're seeing. You're seeing this altering of the motor program. You see it as a mental block. That's what you're seeing You're seeing this altering of the motor program. You see it as a mental block and it probably looks like I don't know if it's like a Charles Barkley golf swing.
Speaker 1:It gets all crazy, right, but it gets crazy because you're trying to alter the motor program within the motor program.
Speaker 1:You got to decide on what you're going to do on this particular one throw and get all the tensions in the right direction before you do your backswing.
Speaker 1:Or it might be at the if it's, if it doesn't require a bunch of power, it might be at the top of your backswing, right, but it can't be in the throw motor program. During that phase your conscious mind needs to be in vision so that it stays out of the motor program, because right now it's trying to get in there and you're doing all kinds of weird movements. So that's the mental block is. You know, you just figure out what is what movement you want to emulate, like, okay, this person, you know whatever. If you're watching somebody, like, okay, cool, and you can just pick it apart, you know, and when you do the movement, you'll you got to find the problems. You got to do the movement a few times to find where the problems are. And then, okay, I'm going to put my conscious mind in this portion of my wrist or whatever at this moment so I so and then you do it.
Speaker 1:Do it super slow to start with, do the whole thing closed loop so you can gain feedback within the whole thing, not trying to hit the basket, just trying to do the throw so I've.
Speaker 4:I've noticed, because I've been trying to do this more, the times where I don't like, I give myself the calm to do the throw and I don't think about it halfway through, are more successful than it's like if I'm trying really hard then I tend to. Just it turns into a roller or something tend to.
Speaker 1:Just it turns into a roller or something it's. It's a mess, because that is where you you're altering the motor program. You're trying to throw it good and to do that, you're trying to hit these marks inside the motor program. You can't do it that way. The marks have to be, you know, your tensions have to be in the right directions before you send it, like the ones you're like. Well, I kind of just did it. That's the time where you kept your conscious mind out of it and you let the motor program do its thing.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:So, you've got a blueprint what you're doing on those. So when you have one of those, you're like okay, what did I say? When did I say it? And you'll find that you weren't. You were not speaking during the forward motion of it.
Speaker 3:And so one of the hardest obstacles for an athlete to get over is overcoming injury and becoming re-injured. I suppose it's the same process.
Speaker 1:So like overcoming injury, so injury causes pain. Pain is an increase in the volume of thoughts right, so you just have to get louder louder than the pain you got to get louder than the pain.
Speaker 1:You know, use it, use the pain to practice getting loud, like when I'm shooting. Uh, you know, it might be a national championship or or whatever, a vegas shoot or something where money's on the line. I will, because I know that on my first scoring arrows I shake more than normal, okay, which is an increase in the volume of thoughts Like, oh my gosh, I'm shaking all over the map right, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what I do in my practice ends is I shoot on one foot Because you get you know you're going to shoot 30 arrows for score, but right before you do that, you know you're going to shoot 30 arrows for score, but before, right before you do that you shoot two practice ends, so you get to shoot two iterations of just practice arrows right before you start your scoring round. So that is where I will shoot on one foot. I do that so that I see a huge aim arrows all over the map, right, but I still work through my trigger no matter where the arrow goes. I still work through my trigger while standing on one foot because I'm getting reps in letting go of the aim. I'm getting reps when my body is screaming at me that I'm going to fall over.
Speaker 1:Right, Balance will always is a very loud thought. Right, I'm going to fall over, just like I need to breathe now, right, so I do that. I shoot on one foot so that I get reps in getting loud with the right words at the right moment. I use everything to make me stronger. I do not allow things to make me weaker.
Speaker 3:That's a freaking good idea. Whenever I practice putting now I'm doing it on one foot.
Speaker 4:Well, that's like how I was throwing with my non-dominant foot and last year when my wrist hurt, I started putting left-handed and actually was doing pretty good using my non-dominant hand because I was going through the same. I guess speech in my head, it's not even a thought process. We need to look at it as a speech.
Speaker 1:There's no such thing as a thought process. Thoughts do not follow a process, it's a thinking process. It's just common for us to say thought process.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, so you were in your. You know, when you change something and it requires more attention, you get into the kind of this honeymoon stage, right, Like oh my gosh, this is so much better. Right, that's when the process is the purest, that's when you have to blueprint it Because we quickly become more efficient. Your subconscious is constantly pushing you toward efficiency, not accuracy. So, knowing that your subconscious is constantly pushing you toward efficiency, we are now attempting to stay in the cognitive stage of learning what's in the cognitive stage of learning Self-talk. But it doesn't make sense for us to stay in the cognitive stage like why would we do this? We know how to throw the disc Right, but all of these things we're talking about are, if you encounter problems within these things, like you've become too efficient on something, like you're dragging your thumb is an efficiency. Your subconscious thinks it's good. You consciously think it's not.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Right Yep.
Speaker 3:You nailed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is very common in the shooting world, because your subconscious does not want you to shoot a bow, it does not want you to pull this thing apart and then create this explosion as a surprise.
Speaker 1:That's completely unnatural very much, so it's fun, but it's scary yeah, so the yips in archery is known as target panic. That's its common name, right? But target panic is like oh man, I got target panic. Well, common name, right. But target panic is like oh man, I got target panic. Well, like, it's not a disease, bro, it is, you're born with it. Like if, if you were an infant and I clapped over your head, you would close your eyes. You would have a reaction to that because you believed impact was coming. That's target panic. That's the y? Yips, we're born with it. So we have to know how to override it. Not necessarily beat it, because it's always there in the background, right, but you have to know how to override it.
Speaker 3:I think for disc golf that target panic is fear of outcome. So people have said that. They say that in archery too, panic is fear of outcome.
Speaker 1:So people have said that. They say that in archery too. Target panic is the fear of missing Right, but none of it is the fear of something, it's just an increase in the volume of thoughts. The result is oh my gosh, if I hit this putt, I'm gonna win 50 grand that is a thought right.
Speaker 1:That has no instruction, that has no strategy. It cannot solve the problem. So you have to increase the volume of your thinking. Just treat problems as you know. It increases the volume of your thoughts. Cool, let it come in and know how to override it through speech.
Speaker 4:So there's times where Brandon will be caddying for me at a women's event. And he'll start talking to me about stuff and I'm like stop it. I want you to stay in this neutral, because I don't want the additional either. Good job, and I don't want the extra. Like you need to pick it up, I just want you to stay neutral so that you're not adding the extra thoughts.
Speaker 1:well, the extra words that are then going to get set in my head as thoughts, Right, so anything that he says will direct your conscious mind into a specific task at a specific moment. Yeah, unless you're louder, right, so he can be beneficial if he knows your blueprint.
Speaker 1:Okay so if he doesn't know your blueprint, he's not going to be beneficial, Just like the pitching coach. The mound visit for most people is nonsense, but if you know each other's blueprint, you can say hey, Jenny, did you remember to say this at this moment? Oh, I forgot. Okay, next time make sure you say that.
Speaker 4:All right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm picking that up. I think we can figure this out.
Speaker 3:I like the mountain visit reference, because I used to be a catcher so that was a thing for me. Yeah there you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it makes complete sense, because they'd be like hey, man, if you don't know each other's blueprint, it means nothing. Yeah, if you don't know each other's blueprint, it means nothing. Yeah. But if you know each other's blueprint, you can be extremely beneficial to one another. Like my son is considered to be one of the greatest archers in the world.
Speaker 3:Yes, I've heard Brag. Please Well.
Speaker 1:I get to be in the coach's box in these big shoot-offs, right, and I normally don't have to say anything to him because I know, I know his blueprint and he follows it very religiously and if there is a problem he knows how to fix it.
Speaker 1:But other archers I have that I'm coaching at the time like they're doing the same big shoot-off, but it might be a female event or whatever, and they've asked me to be in the coach's box and I see them when they're in their practice they're trying to hit the X and they're trying so hard to hit the X In their practice sense I'm like it's not your job. Your job is to talk loud enough about your trigger pressure increase that you could stop it anywhere within it, right, so I have to redirect them to their blueprint. You know and hopefully it's an archer that I've already worked with, but even if it's not an archer that you, you know if you're trying to help somebody out, you know where their conscious mind needs to be and when it needs to be there. You've seen thousands of throws of the disc. So you know, you know the blueprints of these people. You know they may have never even heard any of this stuff before.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I think this is probably the first time the disc golf community is going to be hearing all this stuff oh for sure, oh yeah, unless they've heard me on some other, some other podcasts, but um, so you know, whatever you say is where your player's, so and, and, and, be aware that people can use this for evil as well I had an experience like that.
Speaker 4:I was just gonna say brandon had an experience this weekend where uh one of the players followers kept saying things in jest that maybe weren't as uh just full as they intended and that, you know, really brought down the, the overall feel of the, the card of people playing yeah, and I and I've been guilty of being that one that brings down the card because I get the negative feedback loop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's just thoughts, man, just take it in and use it. People don't use their thoughts enough. They don't have any control over them. Anyways, they're coming in. Let them in Right Now. You know how to override them, so you're just using them to practice getting louder. It's just going to make you stronger and stronger and stronger Over red switch.
Speaker 3:I love it, the big red button Boop. So where did you come up with this stuff Like this is so what was your saying? Again, you're the, you're the expressor of the.
Speaker 1:I'm the master of the unknown obvious. There you go, the master of the unknown.
Speaker 5:We gotta write that down we're gonna have to send you a disc with that on it?
Speaker 1:yeah, that'd be great. So where I came up with all this stuff was out of necessity, because I was not a good shot and I I loved shooting. I grew up shooting. I started shooting a bow when I was seven years old. I started shooting a centerfire rifle when I was five years old and I've just been obsessed with shooting, especially archery, my whole life. And when I became a cop because I wasn't good. I was not a good shooter. I was dealing with all kinds of target panic issues and punching the trigger on a rifle and punching the trigger on an archery release. It was not good and I was on this never-ending quest to figure it out, but I didn't have enough determination to research it enough until I became a cop. And when I became a cop, it's like man, I got to figure this out because I'm watching. All the cops around me got the same problem and we're you know we are not hitting very much with our pistols and our rifles. I'm like man, this is not going to go well out on the street here.
Speaker 1:So, two years into my law enforcement career, I had the opportunity to become a firearms instructor because I loved instructing, I just loved it and. But again, I didn't know how I did what I did, and so not a lot of confidence in it. But you know, I was working at the academy as a firearms instructor and that gave me thousands of recruits to experiment on and to talk, yeah, and to talk them through.
Speaker 1:Little did I know that I had to talk them through a shot. And I had one recruit one day. That was what we call a nervous Nelly, and just a very jittery personality, like a scaredy cat, like, I mean, movements were fast, speech was fast, everything was fast, and you know they were shooting horribly. I mean they were at 20 yards. I remember they're bouncing the bullets off the floor. The bullets were hitting the floor at 15 yards, so like massive pre-ignition movements flinches, if you will, when they press the trigger. And so I got up to this person and I was able to talk them through a trigger press Very specifically. I had them, you know, take the slack out of the trigger. I'm like, okay, don't make the gun go off. I wanted to start pressing trigger but don't make the gun go off. And as soon as I saw that pressure increase, I started talking. I took over their contraband. I'm like, okay, a little bit. Yeah, that's good, keep pressing, keep pressing, keep pressing, keep pressing, pow, and the gun went off. It went off as a surprise and the bullet went through the 10 ring and that was my light bulb moment.
Speaker 1:I'm like I had complete control of this recruit's mind, and so I started to do the research. And it's just funny how it all comes together. And so I started to do the research. And it's just funny how it all comes together. There was one of the sniper instructors that I worked with. He was an anesthesiologist, very smart guy, and so I had written an article about what I was finding, because before I came along, what was happening was all the instructors for decades would yell front sight, front, sight, front sight. That's what they would yell during the shot right.
Speaker 1:And I'm like I don't think that's the problem. I don't think aiming is the problem, I think it's these flinches that are happening with the trigger press. Right, it was the core problem in shooting. Your subconscious mind will not allow you to cause your body impact as a surprise. And once we understood that that's the problem, then we're like okay, how do I get this recruit, this police officer, to concentrate on the trigger press? Well, first I had to figure out how do you concentrate. And that's when I started writing these things and I gave it to my anesthesiologist, sniper buddy, and because every SWAT team usually has an er doctor or an anesthesiologist or some type of medical personnel, right, and he was, he was for that team, and so I wrote this article and I gave it to him. And he comes back to me the next day and goes hey, jt, that's neuro-linguistic programming you're talking about. I'm like, holy smokes, doc, that was a big word. Stand by. I'm like what does that mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like, what does that mean? He says, well, you know, basically, what you say is what you think. 'm like okay, and so that's where it all really started. And then there was a. There was a kinesthesiologist at the academy and and by this time, uh, I had worked my way into the lead firearm instructor position. So I every fire or every police officer had to come through me in Washington state for firearms training and in the academy. And that's where I really got to start the experimentation. And I was coming up with these hypotheses and this one guy at the academy, we just did not see eye to eye. And he comes to me one day. He says look, man, he goes, what you're doing works, but it's not right. And I'm like okay, well, I need to know what's right. And he's like well, you gotta come take my class. I'm like, sign me up. So I took his class and that's where I learned about open and closed loop control systems. I also learned that they'd never been put into shooting, and I also learned that the application of them was not being applied as it could be, not, it was not being applied as it as it could be. And so then I learned about visual proprioception and how the mind uses visual feedback to aim things and like. When you're driving down the road you get visual feedback to your vehicles varying slightly. To one side, you do an automatic corrective movement on the steering wheel. When that vehicle's back in the center lane, as a visual feedback, you stop that movement on the steering wheel. That's how you aim right. But people had always put so much emphasis into the aim. When you do that, it takes all of the attention off of the trigger pressure increase, which is where the pre-ignition movements lie, which the flinch right. So I learned how to direct concentration in specific tasks, not knowing the whole time that I'm starting to use firearms to practice the ultimate skill of getting loud. And you know, I had an officer come to me one day and told me hey, man, he had just gotten this hellacious gunfight where you know big pursuit car's wrecked dude takes an ar over the back seat and starts slinging rounds at all the cops. Holy cow, he's, he's shooting at the bad guy and goes through an entire magazine in his pistol and doesn't hit the guy. And he went behind his trunk to to do a reload. And that's when he said he heard my voice to put the sight on the bad guy and press the trigger, and so that's when he rolled out from behind the trunk and the gunfight was ended in one shot after that. So just stuff like that, like man, this is really wild how this is all coming together and happening. And so what I did is I learned the sciences to package of open and closed loop control systems, neurolinguistic programming and visual proprioception. Now, this is just for shooting in general. And then and I just stayed in my lane right I just I applied it to archery because that was the passion of my life, and now you know we sell that shot iq online course around the world. Um so, but it was all born in firearms. Then it was in archery and bow hunting and all the all the higher stress things that we do and all the high stress tournaments that we do. Then I got on the rogan podcast. Rogan bought my online course, like in 2016.
Speaker 1:He was one of the first people to buy it and really, and he, he had talked about me on 11 different podcasts and then I got the opportunity to actually go down and and meet, uh, meet him and his some of his clique there, you know, and got to shoot with him and you know. Then I got the invite to be on the podcast, and so that's when you know. He said, hey, man, this is applicable to everything. And that's when I'm like man.
Speaker 1:I got to figure this out because now I've got all these people calling me and I got to have answers for them. When my son was the youngest male to ever win the Vegas shoot in the professional division, he won it at 15. He was 15 for one day and he won the Vegas shoe and that gave the credibility to the Shot IQ program enough that I was able to retire in April of 22. And so we've been doing Shot IQ and Mind IQ ever since. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:And it's taken me to some just amazing places and meeting amazing people, and I just keep simplifying and simplifying and simplifying and just getting it down to like this is right in front of our faces people, we just need to be using it in a different way. Wow, so that's where it's all from. Wow, if you listen to rogan podcast, it's number 1943. For those of you that want to know, you'll hear about one of my, one of my adventures as a SWAT sniper in the hostage rescue.
Speaker 3:So I have to ask. I know that Rogan has all his guests come in early and work out with him. What's that like? Like the guy's an animal?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he is an animal. I didn't go work out with him, it was kind of wild. You go to this building, there's no markings on, there's just cameras everywhere and and some uh, great big spec ops guy comes out and gets you and you go in there, you, you do your thing and then, and then off you go so wow. Now he does different things with different people, but yeah, yeah but I mean we keep, we keep in touch regularly, regularly and uh, yeah, it's good. He's a very smart man, he's a very good interviewer.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, he is, yeah yeah. A lot of respect for him, even though I've never met him in person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a good dude.
Speaker 3:Well, now you've broken through to the disc golf community.
Speaker 4:Yes, yep, here I am Welcome to disc golf.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I tell you, uh, tour players would eat this up because the anxiety of you know the way the sport's growing and now they're playing for big money in front of big audiences. Uh, I tell you what this is. This is going to be very valuable to the disc golf community, right?
Speaker 1:So if people want to learn more about this, I have an online course at mindiqcom. The course is titled Mind IQ, and that's where you learn all about open and closed loop control systems. How do you get loud, what are the right words, what are the right moments? The mental game equation we went over a lot of it today, but there's a lot of it in that course that we did not cover that. It may be for your disc golf, it may be for your kids basketball, it may be for anxiety attacks, and I mean it just covers the gamut of how we do what we do. So, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was going to ask Does this apply to people with, like, say, PTSD?
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure. I mean think about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like what is PTSD. It's got all kinds of symptoms and all kinds of things, but it is an increase in the volume of thoughts and when you know how to override those through your voice and you know the right words for the right moments, you don't have those anxiety attacks and all those symptoms that come along with it. So I mean, there's all kinds of therapists out there, but I don't know. I've done some of the stuff, not like military operators and such, but I've been in some pretty bad places and had to do some things. So I don't know if you've ever been in a traumatic experience like that, but you see it every day.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It's kind of weird. You, you see it every day and in, but you don't. You don't have to dwell on it. You can see it as if you're still here, you can see it as a positive and it's just an increase in the volume of thoughts, man. So if you know how to override that and this is what we do anyways you know people talk about self-help and all this stuff, but people don't seem to realize how important it is to have the right words at the right moments. And what is the? You know having the ability to get loud. What does that sound like? What does that feel like for you? And just that empty lung hold kind of opens up like. And just that empty lung hold kind of opens up Like. That's what it sounds like to get loud. And that's also what it sounds like to give up If you've got two less seconds, jenny. Yes.
Speaker 1:That's what it feels like to give up without having the consequences of it.
Speaker 3:She's blushing right now, Joel. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't mean to call you out like that, but that's what it? Is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I mean get 10 more seconds, feel you know, get loud. That is the skill that gets us through everything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and one of the things, brandon, you were asking about the PTSD I know, one of the things that we've been working ourselves and then with our kids with is that you know, when you're having that anxiety attack or you're having that thing is coming up. You have been telling us that that's what we need to work towards, we need to find a way to lean into it, and I think that's also like to connect it with what we're hearing here. Is that that's your way of saying that I need to get louder than that thing.
Speaker 4:So I think that you have a lot of these skills already. You just you know you use different words. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you've just got to use it. You know, if you've got this bad experience or whatever, use it to make you stronger.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Don't allow it to make you weaker. Don't allow the the yell that you hear in the crowd to make you weaker. Just an increase in the volume of thoughts. Cool yeah, Bring it.
Speaker 3:I kind of, I kind of equate it to like to like that, uh, like that runner's high type of thing where you know distance runners, they'll just kind of zone out, zone out and go into this meditative state, uh, even though it hurts and it's painful and you know it, like running sucks but you, you always feel better after you've done it. Or like lifting weights or something of that nature. I mean, you just block out the pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but how do you block it out? You talk to these runners and they'll be in that meditative state until their feet are bleeding. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and then they're like oh, meditation, don't get it, no more. So you've got to like that's where you got to get loud. How do they keep going? How do they keep going? How does somebody keep going for 200 miles, right? The only way you can do that is through speech, right? Well, and you've got to get loud with the right words at the right moments right and sometimes you don't know those words in those right moments until you have to have that experience, that bad experience or good experience or whatever.
Speaker 3:But don't lose it as an opportunity to blueprint how you did it now you said that the time to and maybe, maybe I missed it, but the time to blueprint this stuff is in that honeymoon zone. Can you emphasize on that a little bit more?
Speaker 1:just if you change something, like if you get a new disc where you have to pay particular attention to your hand placement or whatever that's you know, and you're throwing this thing like man, this is so awesome and everything's going awesome. This new thing, Well, that's going to go away, if you allow it to. It's that honeymoon phase, when something draws your attention. That's the purest form of the process. That's when you are talking Like, oh, this feels kind of weird. Okay, I'm going to place my hand right here. Okay, yeah, that's good. Right, that's going to become an automatic motor program and for some things like the throwing motion, I want that to get to be automatic through good repetition. But then if there's a problem in it, you know how to fix it.
Speaker 1:But if you change something, there's this little honeymoon, right, Like if you get a new bow, you get a new release aid, right. You're like, oh man, this thing's so awesome. You know people in the archer world they'll change release aids. They'll go from an index finger to a thumb button, Like, oh my gosh, I think I'm the greatest archer in the world. And then a week later they're punching the crap out of that thing.
Speaker 1:Now too right so, when you are in that honeymoon phase, if you do get something new or you're trying something new and it's just amazing, blueprint it. What did I say? When did I say it?
Speaker 3:because that's how you're directing your conscious mind and that's when you are directing it and you and you said also that the verbal linguistic programming that's been debunked by science, if I caught that right neurolinguistic neurolinguistic programming so it was all you know, like tony rob, self-help, get yourself out of the gutter.
Speaker 1:It was used for, like all this self-help stuff, like what I say comes to fruition, right? Well, in that regard, it was not necessarily scientific, because people were overlooking the fact that the words put your conscious mind in specific places for movements right, it doesn't make money come into your bank account because you're happier, right. So people were using it in that regard instead of using it for okay, I need to perfect this Like a sales call. Who wants to do a cold call as a salesperson?
Speaker 3:Or call a parent. When I was in high school, I worked for a place where we had to make cold call sales a call center and it was terrifying.
Speaker 1:Because you're scared of public humiliation. How did you get yourself to do it? Uh well, a paycheck had right but when you're staring, you're sitting there staring at the phone going. Man, I do not want to do this. That is a thought. How? Did you get yourself to pick up the? Phone and, man, I do not want to do this. That is a thought. How did you get yourself to pick up the phone and dial the number? You've had to go, man, I'm just gonna do it yeah, okay, pick up the freaking phone.
Speaker 3:Throw caution to the wind and go for it same thing with calling.
Speaker 1:You know, I had to call irate people all the time. You got to call a parent, you got to call whatever and tell them that you just arrested little johnny. Well, here it goes and here we go yeah, yeah. So that's the here I go moment, because that makes picking up the phone the only thing in your world. So before you have to do something difficult, here I go is pretty common verbiage for the human being.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, joel, it's right there in front of our face, people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this has been a mind-blowing experience.
Speaker 1:Beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm going to do this every day, and Jenny was here with me the whole time. So now our, our practice rounds are going to be forever, completely changed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and hopefully our tournament. So I'm hoping for the the hashtag to go viral of here I go Like there we go, she doesn't.
Speaker 3:she doesn't like mine of always practicing no, I don't. No, just here I go and then you got what is? What is Joel's here? The master of the unknown obvious. There's. I'm reading it upside down good job, it's great, oh my gosh. Well, uh, joel, do you have anything else that you'd want to add? Or jenny?
Speaker 4:or I'm just? I'm just mind blown. I hope that our paths do cross at some point, and maybe at a disc golf course. I do hope that we get the opportunity to meet you in person, and I don't know what your? Schedule looks like and you don't need to say anything. Uh on the air, but uh, the cascade challenge is coming to Shelton in May. I believe it's like the 16th through the 20th somewhere in there. It's the professional disc golfers tour.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so if you wanted to, if you were in the area, you could swing by and and check that out. Have you ever?
Speaker 3:seen a frisbee fly of 800 feet no let me tell you, it is something yeah, it is it is a visceral experience. It you just scratch your head and you're like what?
Speaker 1:it's so in when we're equating that to archery and ball golf. Watching a trajectory path captivates the human mind and always has that's why people get into archery and they fletch their arrows with really bright fletchings.
Speaker 1:that's what keeps people in traditional archery, and they fletch their arrows with really bright fletchings. That's what keeps people in traditional archery shooting recurves and longbows because you get to see the flight of your arrow, you get to see the flight of the disc. It's one of the most gorgeous things that there is. You have propelled, and watching it follow the exact path that you know it needs to is a beautiful thing, and it keeps you coming back, yeah, over and over again.
Speaker 3:Yep, it sure does.
Speaker 4:That's the one, yeah, that's the one, yeah, especially now fascinating well, now that I've because I've, you know, I wasn't very good at at first, but now that I've gotten to the point where I can actually throw the disc and see a full flight like it's really amazing and you can do all the different shapes and manipulate.
Speaker 3:I'm starting to on purpose.
Speaker 4:Yeah, on purpose that's the. Thing with intention, yeah, that is incredible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're absolutely right, joel. Alright, well, if we don't have, that is incredible. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Joel. All right, well, if we don't have anything else, let's go into our wrap-up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's all I got for you. That's my life story in an hour.
Speaker 4:That's amazing.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 4:I am so grateful that we got to talk to you. I haven't stopped smiling this whole episode. I think I have a little bit of a headache. I'm going to need to let some of this settle and figure out what I'm going to tell myself.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like drinking out of a fire hose, but don't make it more than that. Well, at least we had the idea.
Speaker 4:We've heard the Joe Rogan podcast so we had an idea, but now it's so much deeper even though you keep saying you try and make it more simple, it's so much more now.
Speaker 1:I mean that Rogan podcast was two years ago.
Speaker 3:Well, simple doesn't mean easy.
Speaker 1:True, yeah, simple does not mean easy, but it helps that it is simple. Yeah. Just knowing how you're going to do. What you're going to do is so powerful.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow, yeah. Wow. Well, joel, whenever you're in town next, hit us up. You got my number. We'll take you out for a round and show you the sport that we love. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sounds good. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and no need to bring discs. We got plenty.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:So in this episode of the Intentional Disc Golfer Podcast, we got to talk to Joel Turner from Shot IQ and Mind IQ and he has forever changed the way that we're going to approach the game and that we're going to think about the game. If you love us, like us, appreciate us, please hit that like, subscribe, share button, tell all of your friends. You can find us on all the main social medias. We have a Facebook and Instagram, an X, a TikTok, a YouTube, and we have a website where you can send us fan mail. You can just click on the upper left hand corner there, send us a text message. Or, if you want to email us directly, it is the intentional disc golfer at gmailcom the intentional disc golfer at gmailcom.
Speaker 3:And if you would like to continue to support the cause, we do have a Patreon. Our catalog of things on Patreon is is growing, so please go on the patreon at uh, patreoncom. The intentional disc golfer. That is backslash the intentional disc golfer. And please stay tuned after the episodes. If there's any uh bloopers or outtakes, we'll pin them to the end of the episode. And, uh, we'd like to thank our sponsors real quick. Uh, we are sponsored by treasuresasures of the Forest and they make those awesome minis that have the stuff in them from all the different courses and also Jenny Salty, unicorns Disc Golf Apparel.
Speaker 4:And then I also wanted to say if you are interested in more information about either Shot IQ or Mind IQ. It looks like the websites are wwwshotiqcom or mindiqcom.
Speaker 3:So we'd like to thank the fans. You guys are the reason that we can keep doing this and that we can make this podcast possible, so thank you very much. I am one of your hosts my name is Brandon and I'm Jenny, and our guest tonight is Joel Turner, and here at the Intentional Disc Golfer, we truly believe that disc golf changes lives, so please go out there and grow the sport.
