The Hiring Edge

Salesforce Layoffs 2025: Career Strategies to Bounce Back Strong

• Josh Matthews • Season 3 • Episode 79

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The recent Salesforce layoffs shook the tech world—over 4,000 jobs cut globally. But if you’re impacted, this isn’t the end of your career—it could be the turning point. In this episode of The Hiring Edge by Joshforce, Josh Matthews is joined by Michael Vukovich (CEO, Wise Wolves) and Peter Ganza to deliver practical, proven strategies to help Salesforce professionals navigate layoffs and land their next opportunity.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

  • Why jumping to another tech giant (like IBM or Oracle) may not be your best move
  • How mid-sized companies can value your enterprise experience more than Fortune 500s
  • Smart ways to leverage your Salesforce brand on platforms like LinkedIn, Upwork, and Fiverr
  • Networking strategies that actually open doors (without coming across as desperate)
  • Why venting on LinkedIn could sabotage your job search—and what to do instead
  • How to reframe layoffs as an opportunity to upskill and reposition your career
  • The small but powerful actions—like thank-you notes—that set candidates apart
  • Mindset shifts to process the change and move forward with confidence

If you’ve been affected by layoffs, this conversation offers both immediate tactics and long-term career management advice.

👉 Subscribe for more hiring insights from Joshforce and The Hiring Edge.
👉 Watch related episodes on navigating layoffs and career pivots.

#SalesforceCareers #Layoffs2025 #TechJobs #CareerAdvice

Speaker 1:

Salesforce layoffs always a touchy subject, always a divisive topic, and today we're trying to do something more than just create more division and outrage. We're actually going to bring some real solutions to those of you who have been impacted. We're going to hit you with a few, I think, very helpful things that you can do right away. But if you really want the big content, the how do I actually secure my career long term these sorts of things, you're going to want to stick around for what's going to be a very lively and interesting discussion. Welcome to the Hiring Edge, the podcast helping leaders navigate the age of AI, create teams that thrive and build a workplace people never want to leave.

Speaker 1:

So first of all, let's talk about numbers. I think it was like right around the 4th or 5th of September, salesforce announced 4,000 layoffs and people started to lose their freaking minds like they didn't see it coming. God knows why they didn't see it coming. I mean, we've all just been talking about agent force for over a year now, right, and you know some of the things. I don't want to get too into this right now, but some of the things I was seeing is like oh, you know, benioff is out of touch and his comments weren't appreciated and he talked about headcount instead of humans, like okay. And he talked about headcount instead of humans, like okay, fair enough, can we move on and start helping people? Yes, we can. So first thing is, let's get this in perspective 6,500 people have been employed not employed but hired in the last four years by Salesforce. They are going to be letting go about 3,500 or so of them, upwards of 4,000. I think it's 4,000 globally. Is that right, michael?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, approximately About 4,000 globally.

Speaker 1:

Okay, all right, I'm going to give two or three of my thoughts and then we're going to go round, robin, flesh this out and hopefully get to the bottom of this so that you can walk away from this with some very real tactical things you can do and some mind shift changes that will only enhance your career or the people that you care about. So my number one is don't chase another giant immediately. Don't go straight from Salesforce to IBM or to Oracle right, these are large companies. They're all not only looking at automation for customer support. They can afford it. They can afford that transition, right. Instead, you're going to want to look at more mid-sized companies. Mid-sized companies where they can actually elevate their department. Because of your big, large tech company experience, what do you guys think about that?

Speaker 2:

I'll go if it's alright, and I want to step on Peter's toes here. Go ahead, michael.

Speaker 1:

He lost all of his toes 10 years ago. He's fine.

Speaker 2:

Different story for a different podcast, though, speaking for myself, I couldn't agree with that more, and just to bring that as some additional real world experience. In my career, having been in the Salesforce space for the last 15 years I used to work at a company called Blue Wolf, which many of you listening to this podcast might know was one of the first ever sorry, the first ever Salesforce partner. If any of my former colleagues watching this one, make sure I get that right First ever Salesforce partner. And then they were ultimately acquired by IBM. Now what's interesting is when I introduce myself to potential prospects today, I lead with IBM Because that is a brand that people know, that people recognize as opposed to Blue Wolf, and so no offense to my Blue Wolf colleagues, but IBM generally stands out a lot more and people the prospects in particular oftentimes feel a lot of comfort in knowing that they're working and talking to somebody who had worked with large scale Fortune 500 companies.

Speaker 2:

So that's a real brand that individuals who unfortunately suffered from these layoffs are able to take with them as almost a badge of sorts as they go into future interviews. So, yeah, I know you mentioned medium-sized businesses, josh. I mean I wouldn't even differentiate. You know even small businesses as well. I think would really appreciate somebody with something like a Salesforce experience.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I mean, we're talking about highly trained employees, right, they don't just hire anybody. They're kind of picky, some departments more than others. But one of the things you can do is really tap into the global gig economy strategically on your own. You can jump on Upwork, fiverr, turing there are a number of platforms. So if you want some immediate work hopefully it takes a little bit of time to build a rep, but if you want some immediate help, you can leverage the name Salesforce. You can say, instead of saying support specialist, you could say ex-Salesforce support specialist specialist. You could say ex-Salesforce support specialist, right, ex-oracle tier two support specialist. That's going to give you some immediate credibility. Right, it's going to answer more questions than it asks. And that's what you want to do. You want people to understand you. Let's kick it over to you, michael. I know that you've got some ideas on what people can do in this situation. What's ideas on what people can do in this situation? What's something else that people can do?

Speaker 2:

I'm a big believer in network, especially in today's day and age.

Speaker 2:

There's tons of talking about other news stories out recently about a lot of deep fake applications being submitted for job profiles online and things like that.

Speaker 2:

I think people are ever more I don't want to call it adversarial, but distrusting of just the random resume that lands in the inbox in response to a job posting online.

Speaker 2:

I've been seeing a lot of people that have been really forward and open and honest to their network in the form of LinkedIn, as well as what I imagine the form of LinkedIn, as well as what I imagine to be other social networks as well in communicating or articulating their journey as they go through the respective layoff and the job evaluation and moving forward, and so I would highly recommend looking closely at the individuals, the people that you've built a strong relationship with over the course of your work career individuals the people that you've built a strong relationship with over the course of your work career. So, if you are, unfortunately, somebody who suffered from this or any layoff, but in this particular layoff, I would look at, of course, the people that are going through the same thing. I cross-share and understand ideas and learn from them, and then, on the opposite side, as a customer support specialist, you know people that are still employed at Salesforce. They are hiring still. They have new jobs, right, Josh, that they are still hiring for over the course of the next 12 months.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean they've hired, I think, 1,800 people in the last 12 months. It's not all doom and gloom, it's more hiring.

Speaker 2:

Oh, they're hiring for different roles, right, so you could upskill and then get referred right back into the same organization, right? Potentially even with a potential promotion, or, of course, other people that have come and gone and left and went on to other roles at different organizations. Lean on that network as a means to really find not just another job, but, if you have the luxury quote, unquote luxury to do so, to try to find an opportunity that you really feel like aligns with your not just your short term needs of like a paycheck, but also your medium and long term needs from a career standpoint.

Speaker 2:

Your network's going to be invaluable in helping you find that yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And here's the good news. Here's the good news. Guys Like of these positions aren't gone until November. It's not like everyone just got walked to the door a week ago or eight, nine days ago. It didn't happen like that, so let's.

Speaker 3:

LinkedIn, right, perfect example. We've all. We all get. You know, I get a few a week. Oh, I'm you know. Now I'm you know, on the market. I'm looking for this type of a role, right In a message that's not nearly as powerful as hey, let's catch up and meet and and actually see the person and not lead with the. You know, oh, I just lost my job and I'm looking for the next role. I'm desperate, but I just want to catch up. Do you have a booking link? Here's my booking link. Yeah, I'll do that, and that is a whole different level of just communication and networking. That's, frankly, one of the best things I can suggest, because it makes a difference.

Speaker 1:

It does. It's a huge difference. The one thing I would add is, yeah, you can lead with like hey, catch up, but before the meeting let them know what it's about. No one wants to feel ambushed, so be careful. Like depends on how busy the person is. Just make sure that they book the time, but then let them know before you meet.

Speaker 2:

What's going on, right? I think, yeah, I, if you know, as as humans, we oftentimes try to shy away from the idea of asking for help because we feel like it has a negative perception of us in terms of our ability and our skill to kind of pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get it done right. But that's right. The reality is like there's a saying it takes a village, everything kind of takes a village, like a human being, the village and and people really actually appreciate, I'll be honest, like there's there, one of the top five things I love to do in this world is find other people. It's like it's it's. It's a really fulfilling thing to do. I know you, I wouldn't know anything about it, I don't make any money on it, josh, but anyway.

Speaker 1:

Hey, you know what? Nine times out of 10, I don't either. Yeah, it's just a fulfilling activity to perform, to have a real direct impact with people. This is something really important. Okay, pay attention to your career. Pay attention to your career.

Speaker 1:

Don't be shocked when a company that is introducing and announced at Dreamforce last year and then gave a demonstration who was it? Land's End Eddie Bauer, it was LL Bean, it was like one of these clothing companies and they showed. I sat there, I was there in the freaking theater and they showed how you don't need customer support anymore. Like I watched it. Right? Don't work for a company and then act shocked when the thing that they have just designed, which is designed to edge you out, edges you out. You can act surprised that you weren't paying attention, but don't act shocked when the company that says they're going to go do something, and then they go and do it, and now you're indignant.

Speaker 1:

I think that's just silly. You, who are struggling right now, who know that your time at Salesforce is coming to an end, are responsible for your own career. It is not the Ohana, it's not Mark Benioff. After all, he's the one who created the job that you've been feeding your family on for a number of years or months, or even over a decade, if not. But for him, you would either not be working or be working somewhere else. Let's not get kind of nasty here. Let's take some personal ownership. Yes, I'm in customer service. Yes, we have a product. Yes, it's designed to replace me. So what am I going to do about it? Now Be one of the first people to iterate what direction your career is going. Don't be the one who's shocked on Labor Day when you see some announcement that your job's going away.

Speaker 1:

And what's interesting? I found this really interesting. Know who are the most indignant people? Shocked, outraged Americans. Big, freaking surprise. Guess who's not. Guess. Who kept it professional on LinkedIn, practically to a T. Everyone in India. Everyone in India polite, professional took it on the chin. Not the best situation, but they're going to do something about it. What they didn't do is have an airing of the grievances. Okay, like they didn't have to do that in public, and you don't either. So don't be caught in that. And I'm not telling. I'm not trying to silence anyone. I'm just trying to help you protect your career, because it matters.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's. I think it is important to remember that employers are going to be looking at your profile before they hire you. At least I will. I don't know about everybody else, I suppose but look at what they want to post. And if people see that you are shitposting your former employer online and that is going to, as as a potential future employer, look somewhat suspicious, like it's just not like as as an individual who's going to bring you on board, even just even purely from like a potential headache, right, remember, I mean, ultimately, people have to remember you're trying to differentiate yourself amongst a sea of individuals who are applying to jobs every it's.

Speaker 2:

It's. It's about trying to find every little edge that you can find. Going from I know, I know the person that used to work with three jobs ago. All the way to, I shaved and I wore a suit to the interview. All the way to, I sent a thank you letter. All the way to don't shitpost your former boss, Right, like I'm also. Like you don't even want to shut out Salesforce, right? You're there till November. You can still find another job within the organization. So, like you, don't want to be like shitposting, of course, like ship hosting.

Speaker 2:

That's right, your current employer. That's right, it's your current employer. Yeah, it's about trying to add up all these little edges that you can get in pursuit of making sure that you know, come November 1, you are well positioned and that you have another lined up.

Speaker 3:

Always try to think about the outcome of your action. If it's going to be negative at all, why Is it going to benefit you? Right? That's really the best way to think about it. I know that's easy to say, but sometimes it can be that simple. That's right.

Speaker 1:

Does it serve your future self. It serves your immediate self because you're going to get a dopamine hit when you keep logging into LinkedIn 20 times that day to see how many people liked your comment. Like, yeah, you're going to get a little dopamine hit. That's going to go away and the whole thread's probably going to be forgotten, except until someone like me or Michael or some other hiring manager starts looking around and there's just too many people available. Today, one of my recruiters shared a candidate with me. I'm like. I looked at him. Oh yeah, he looks good. Oh, he worked there. Oh, I know those guys. Oh, I know that business owner. He's been on the show a bunch of times, by the way, and I shot him both a quick message. Hey, is this guy any good? Absolutely, totally vouch for him. He's amazing. He's incredible.

Speaker 2:

I can text these same two guys or gals or any of my connections and say, hey, it looks like you guys work together. What do you know it's like? Oh yeah, just run, run. Right, michael, what else do you have for the folks out there? What's something that could help them? Handful of connections that went through layoffs recently and I think one of the the impressive thing that I've seen people doing is, of course, communicating and talking about their journey as a means to both, I feel, expand their reach as well as uplift others.

Speaker 2:

I think that people want to hire people that are trying to do that, that are trying to to bring others up in in the world speaking but one of the ways that I feel like people can, that I feel like has actionable results as it pertains to finding a new job, is I think everybody who's going through this experience should try to find four to six to ten hours over the course of the next couple of weeks and just record ad nauseum, like in a video format similar to this, their experience and what they've done and their top accomplishments they feel like they achieved during their tenure at Salesforce or even broadly within their career. Take all of that, take those transcripts, use AI as a weapon load in the chat GPT and then say write me 20 LinkedIn posts that speak to that are going to be high performing, that speak to who I am as an individual, the value that I can bring to an organization, and specific anecdotes and successes that I've had throughout my career. And you can take those posts and tweak it and modify it as you feel.

Speaker 1:

And you should, you should, you should, you should. If it doesn't sound like you guys, if it does not sound like you and if you have green check marks, don't do it. I agree, don't do it. Train the agent to sound like you. At least try that, yeah why I like recording myself?

Speaker 2:

actually, because I really I feel like it's much more effective at like picking up on your, your terminology, your words, your personality when it has like you actually talking to it as much as possible and then use that as a means to like engage with other people as well as market yourself.

Speaker 2:

I think that's, frankly, an invaluable, uh like step that you could take towards like trying to find your next opportunity and also communicate to the world that, yeah, you're open for business and as someone who, by the way, if you still actually have a job I hope nobody at Wise Wolves is watching this, by the way but I think that everybody, every three years at a minimum, should check their market, which means you should, every three years, go out into the market. You should see what your value is worth, what other opportunities that are out there, and you should consider taking advantage of those opportunities. Or you should go back to your current employer and see if, indeed, they'd be willing to match an opportunity or not. I think that gives you a better sense as to what the viability is for someone with your skill set and could potentially give you a heads up as to whether or not you're at risk of an event like what happened at Salesforce.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I really do. I think it's fantastic. I mean, it's career management 101. And I don't think we've ever said that on this show like once. So that's brand new, michael. Thank you for sharing it. Okay, michael, really good information.

Speaker 1:

This is going to be very easy to do. You just go to the Josh Forrest channel on YouTube and you click on. I lost my job. What am I going to do? Part one and part two, and you watch those two and if you're like me, you like to watch or you can listen to things really fast. I listen to pretty much everything at one and a half speed. You can do that.

Speaker 1:

You'll be through all of it in about 30 minutes, all right, we'll talk about your LinkedIn profile. We'll talk about your resume. We'll talk about your mindset, your health, what you're doing emotionally. Because if you go and hit the market I'll just give you this one quick giveaway If you go and hit the bricks looking for a new career, a new job, new position, and you're still pretty torn up inside about the situation, very few people can successfully land a job that they actually want.

Speaker 1:

You can land a job, but it's going to be with people who aren't very good at reading people and that's not going to be super fun, because if they can't read that anguish, that pit in your stomach that you're still walking around with, it's not really an employer you're going to want to hang with for too long. So you must exorcise, not exercise. Exorcise like exorcist, right, you have to get rid of that. How do you process that? Well, you have to create the right mental framework, right? This isn't something bad happening to me. This is just a thing that is happening, and maybe I should have had some awareness. Or maybe I should put a little bit of time in, or maybe I should put some time in now to prepare for this change. What can happen? Possibly really wonderful things. This might give me the time I need to ramp up on my AI so I can actually become a prompt engineer, which is what I really want to do. Honestly, that's what I want to do. I spend weekends making really cool custom GPTs. It's so fun For real. Take this time.

Speaker 1:

And then here's another thing Assess yourself, michael. Put it best Record yourself. Talk about what you've accomplished. Talk about the positive impact. I really encourage you to talk about what did you miss, what mistakes were you making? And you kept repeating what habits didn't you break? Which habits didn't you adopt? Which habits didn't you adopt? It's okay to look at both sides. You really should. It's healthy. Don't be afraid of your own analysis, but do be careful of shaming yourself. Don't shame yourself. There's no stigma with losing a job. When tech comes in, it changes and a large company needs to make decisions based on their shareholders, their investments and their portfolio and the direction of the company. That's always going to happen, especially in tech. Okay, this isn't a mining company, right, it's just not. It's different. It's going to change constantly changing.

Speaker 1:

It's a little bit different, okay, so forgive yourself, there's nothing to forgive, okay, and then do something different. Okay, so forgive yourself, there's nothing to forgive, okay, and then do something different. Behave differently, think differently, but for God's sake, get some sleep. Don't hit the booze too hard, bitch once in a while to a few people and then let it go. If you find yourself two, three, four weeks later having the same exact conversation, then you need a therapist, and not one that's going to indulge you, one that's going to wake you up and snap you up. Snap you out of it. You might even prefer a coach. So don't get stuck in a repetitive tape of feeling bad for yourself. It's not good for you, it's not good for the people around you, it will further damage you, it will prevent you from success. That's just a little bit of a quick insight.

Speaker 3:

Check out Josh Forrest. I got to jump in. Yeah, go ahead. Would it be worthwhile mentioning how we met and the advice that you gave me, because, honestly, that was the best advice I've ever gotten.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sure, I barely remember, but go for it.

Speaker 3:

You're memorable, but I don't remember every conversation we all remember as I'm telling the story. Yeah, so how do I finish? So one thing important to mention is how Josh and I actually met and I had gotten laid off years ago and was all wired up, ready to go, excited, literally the next day, like I'm reaching out, you know, pumping out the messages, and I had great introduction to Josh and he gave me the best advice career wise I've ever received. He said take your time, take some time right, process it. And, um, you know that can be different for everybody. Some can maybe take a few days or, you know, maybe maybe a week or two. It's different for everybody. But literally, seriously, from a mental perspective, um, just don't jump in right away after. And, you know, get get into that, that, run, take, just process it really. And that's probably the best way to phrase it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks for sharing that, peter, and I do remember I'd like to, I'd like to end on a couple notes with maybe some final, really quick hits, and then I'll, I'll, I'll share my thoughts. So let's just go around, rob and Peter, let's start with you. What's one more thing that you think can really really help people?

Speaker 3:

So honestly, the one thing is the one that we preach all the time. At least I said all the time it's be authentic. Don't be like everybody else, and I know that's easy to say, but it's not that hard to actually do. Don't be a sheep in the herd of sheep. Yes, of course you're going to use all the same tools and find the different things everywhere, but find something unique, or something unique that you can talk about, tell a story and just distinguish yourself from the rest of the crowd if you can. That's, frankly, the best advice, always the best advice, and we say it often on the career show.

Speaker 1:

Great. Thank you, Peter. May I you may?

Speaker 2:

The small, innocuous activities add up over the long term. Posts like simple, little posts on LinkedIn, simple outreaches to people that you have high regards for, that are in your network, that you've worked with personally. For the love of God, thank you. Notes after interviews.

Speaker 2:

For the of god, people like trying to stand out the easiest way to stand out yeah, my god, like you have no idea, like people like these simple things, right like look up the person that you're going to interview with before you interview with them, send thank you notes. Like understand your value proposition, do a little bit of research, it's. I know you people get the temptation to just like shoot off tons of resumes, just like yeah, with spelling mistakes right like I'm just gonna that are poorly written yeah, people come to me with like I've applied for a thousand jobs.

Speaker 2:

I'm like you really haven't applied to any. I'm just like you've just been throwing your resume around like that's not applying for jobs. Like applying for a thousand jobs, I'm like you really haven't applied to any. I'm just like you've just been throwing your resume around like that's not applying for jobs. Like applying for a job is like applying yourself for a position.

Speaker 2:

Now it doesn't mean like basket right, but it's like, I love that. It's like fine, like, find a passion, fine, like, do like. To peter's point, take a little bit of time, figure out what you feel like you want to do next, talk to your network, talk to yourself, talk to your spouse, whatever. Find companies that fit that demographic, find the people that work at those companies that you know. These are the simple things. And then research those organizations, then apply thoughtfully. Research those organizations than apply thoughtfully. I think those little things add up as opposed to. It's not nearly as much of a numbers game as I think people give it credit for. Call Josh, for the love of God.

Speaker 1:

Don't call me, I'm too busy. Don't call me, just watch the videos. I guess it's my turn.

Speaker 3:

Some final advice.

Speaker 1:

Look guys, there's so much information already on this channel, on this podcast, whether it's how to translate big firm skills into marketable narratives. You know like I handled escalations for fortune 500 clients instead of yeah, I'm a customer service rep, or I lived in compliance frameworks like GDPR and HIPAA for three years straight. You get to say that stuff. Let's present ourselves as interested people who want to connect with others. So smile, get your profile dialed in, get your resume filled with accomplishments. But I don't know those numbers, josh. Come on, just do a little math in your head, scratch it out, you'll figure it out. How many calls did you take? How many escalations did you handle? What were your customer service scores? You'll know that stuff.

Speaker 1:

And if you don't, then you're not paying attention to your career and anything that falls on you is on you. So if you're not paying attention, it is truly on you. And if you become successful, it's not an accident because you did something to advance yourself. You don't have to be the fastest person out there, you don't have to be the smartest. You just have to be better than the next people. And if you're applying to a job with a thousand applications, you absolutely have to be better than 948 of them or 970 of them, and it's not hard to do. Honest to God, if all you did was spend five hours picking a few of these podcasts and then sitting there, listen to them, five hours of content and then apply 15 hours of work to them, you'll get a job. You'll get a job. It'll happen. It'll happen sooner than you think it would. So if you're upset that you're not somewhere spending 40 hours a week helping someone else, why don't you spend 10 hours a week helping yourself? And that's where I would start. That's what I recommend. We want you to be a human and not a headcount. I think some of this advice, like working at the smaller to mid-sized firms after a big one, will help you to feel that way, like you'll find your place, you'll find your people, you'll find meaning, you'll find sustainability in a career, you'll find advancement in a career. Right, but only if you really do the time. Put yourself out there.

Speaker 1:

If you check out my very last podcast, it was short, it was like eight minutes. We had John Klein on here and we talked about one of Michael's employees. She went two years looking for a job, couldn't find one, but she spent almost every single day getting better at her job, still doing certifications, being involved in the community, polishing her communication skills. So you can do it. You can do it. You just have to want to do it enough. And if you don't feel like doing it right now, it's okay, forgive yourself. Go take a hot bath, go binge a Netflix show for the next two days, you know like it's okay. Treat yourself. Treat yourself right, treat yourself. Thank you for watching this program. Michael Vukovic, ceo of Wise Wolves. Thank you for watching this program. Michael Vukovic, ceo of Wise Wolves. Thank you so much for being on here, my friend. It's always so good to see you. Peter Ganza, dear friend, great contributor to the Hiring Edge and the Salesforce Career Show over the years, thanks for joining us today. Bye for now.

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Josh Matthews

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Vanessa Grant

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Michael Vukovich

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Peter Ganza

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