The Meteor co-founder Doug Zell Is Expanding his Bike Cafe Concept to Your Town_Part 2/2

Interview Part 2/2 takes all the context that we collected in Part 1 - Doug's upbringing in a creative household, brief flirtation with a serious cycling career, and epic journey pioneering the craft coffee industry - and gets to the good part. That is, how Doug rediscovered bikes after a decades long hiatus and hatched a brand that blends his flare for hospitality into a cyclist's haunt. The Meteor's path to a delightful multifaceted space has been circuitous, but as Doug points out, every misstep has helped his team focus the mold. This model was always meant to be a repeatable one, and The Meteor has ambitious plans for new locations across the country over the next couple years. Don't miss the finale when Doug shares how hard bike racing mirrors the seemingly insurmountable challenges in entrepreneurship.

Doug Zell is the cofounder of various businesses including Intelligentsia Coffee, Allied Cyle Works, and of course, The Meteor, where you can find him fastidiously attending to the smallest details of the cafe, bike shop and wine bar.

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Theme Music: Summer Vibes by Rizik

Transcript

0:10

So so, really, you know, Intelligentsia, I I think, is just a very important part of the story and and about, your career and how you got to the media. And I will I will share, we we moved to Austin 3 years ago. And, you know, I'm a I'm a avid cyclist. I've I've gotten my wife into it. And we, you know, landed, in a neighborhood that's a mile away from from the meteor here in Austin, off off South Congress. And the meteor is a very special place. You know, a big reason is it's it's cycling themes. So if you're if you're a cyclist, you go in there And you notice that, you know, the the table numbers are cyclists sorta, you know, racer cards or or whatever, and and, you know, there there's merch that's that's cycling themed. But also the cafe itself is just, so welcoming. And and, like, we were talking about, you know, with Austin, it just is it has a community atmosphere. And then sure enough, when it you know, weather permitting, and it's not a 110 outside. It's got a a great big beer garden in the back where you're just running into people. You run into friends all the time. And so, you know, really, the next segment here, I I wanna ask you, you know, we we mentioned Intelligentsia sold to Pete's and and Pete's holding company. I guess, was it 2 thou 2020? Or 2015. Okay. Alright. Wait. I was way off. So, 2015. How did how did we how did you, end up deciding to launch the Meteor? What what was the inspiration for that? How how did that come about? Well, I think that, you know, my my business partner who is I like To say, okay. Now I call him a recovering attorney. Okay. We raced bikes together in Chicago. Okay. And, you know, we had taken some So so this was during, the Intelligentsia days when you got back into riding? Or So yeah. So I I mean, we sold in in deal that kind of stretched out for another Few years. Yes. Couple years. Yeah. Part of it. So so, and it, you know, wrapped up in its totality, last May. Okay. A year ago, May. Lot of overlap. 2022. Yeah. So, you know, we we would do these epic rides kind of in in not kind of in November, typically. You know? It it was when a ride from Boston to to Brooklyn or or, I've never even heard of anyone during that. I've I've heard of of LA and San Francisco. But But those are really fun. Okay. Cool. You hit the you hit, you know, you you hit the Bronx. You're like, oh, we're almost there. You're not you're not. So, anyway, so some some really wonderful rides and it was we'd finish off these rides with a bottle love, you know, some champagne from some local liquor store and etcetera. Mhmm. And, you know, we think I wasn't this great. And we got to talking and, You know, my business partners, Chris St. Peter, he he didn't love his job. You know, he's he's he's I'm sure he was good at it as as as a lawyer. And I said, you know, shit. Should do something. Let's let's try and put something together that considers these things that we dig, which are bicycles And at that time, coffee, great wine, and and the food piece from the very beginning, I I'd say we weren't considering it as much. We just didn't know what we didn't know, and and and fleshing out the whole food offering piece was something that came a bit later. Mhmm. And and the year we're we're talking around 2016, 2017. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So, let's see. Through a series of events, I I was ending up in Arkansas to also start Allied Cycle Works Okay. Which, when I cofounded that and and the premise there was to to manufacture really good quality bicycles in the United States, carbon fiber bicycles. And That landed that landed me in Little Rock, for various reasons. Mhmm. And, you know, so we we did a version of the media there that was more just the coffee and bugs, etcetera, which which you had seen in some places. And we did it for a few years, a couple years, it really didn't that well because, you know, we we I think we misjudged the market, you know, what what could happen, what's possible, etcetera. There just wasn't demand for what you guys were doing in in Little Rock. Not exactly. Okay. For for whatever reason. Okay. You know, I I think that, you know, maybe timing wasn't right, maybe whatever it was. So we then move those operations kind of simultaneously to northwest Arkansas to open there. And and at about the same time, you know, had I had moved to Austin, because I like the writing here. I like the the scene here, you know, a bunch of other things, yeah. All those things. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so so And and did was Austin sort of put on your radar because cause you were in Little Rock and it was kinda striking distance or No. I I I passed through here a bunch of times. Okay. Sort of on many different occasions. One of my questions was gonna be, you know, at so far, we talked about, Milwaukee growing up. We talked about Chicago, obviously. Right. I think you you lived in LA for a little bit, Yeah. A long time ago. Right? Right. SF for a little bit. Yeah. Cambridge, Massachusetts Right. And and then Little Rock and then Austin. Yeah. And and, this has been your home for the last 8. 8 years. Yeah. On and off, but but, yeah, I'd say So so, yeah, I I think, you know, it's just interesting that that you chose Austin, and it's it sounds like we've already discuss this a little bit. It was it was the vibe. It was Yeah. I mean, it has it has a really wonderful spirit that offers, you know, and it was it's funny, I was actually, you know, surprisingly, I was at the meter yesterday talking to a couple of guys from the UK, and, you know, one of them said, it feels like it's a global city, but it's still Got a town. It's got a town feel to it. You'll you'll run into it. And I I, You know, I think that this this summer has been particularly hot and brutal. I, you know, I was at stopped in it, you know, whole whole foods on in in in I live in East Austin and and then went to the is that the Brew and Brew? Yeah. It's a wonderful place. Right? And and you're, like, Austin is great. It's just, like, people are sitting there smiling or, you know, whatever. Working away or chatting. Like, happiness is pervasive here. Yeah. You know? You can have the heat, and we can complain about that. But in general, It's it's a very low judgment Yeah. Open place that, you know, the the the cycling culture here is, you know, You can be rolling with a, you know, CEO of a tech company, Volvo mechanic Yeah. Artists Yeah. Music. Folks aren't talking about their work all that much. Yeah. And and and everyone and if they're if they're talking about it's it's kind of how does it relate? Oh, that's, you know, fascinating. So I I just think it's it's a it's a pretty things. I I just think it's it's a it's a pretty class stratification seems to exist less here in in what than what I'm used to. Yeah. So it's a very it's very open in that regard and accepting. I was just listening to another podcast called Austin Next, and, you know, the the host and the guest were talking about, that specifically, that openness, you know, sort of attracting entrepreneurial types. Yes. And and I think it it you know, I I know a a few folks that have moved from Los Angeles And they're it it's almost like they can't believe it. They can't believe, like, you know, 1 guy does apartments. The, you know, the other guy had, you know, something to do with film and and and and they're just, like, everyone's cheering for the the other guy. Yeah. You know? And and and And I've they're not accustomed to that. They're not like, oh, I win, you lose. The gatekeepers. Yeah. They're they're not they're like, no. Call this guy. Yeah. And and and everyone's, like, great. And and that's great. There's enough to go around. That's what everyone is In LA, things are picked over. I don't know. You know? I don't know or if it's just how it's considered. So I I think that my experience in in everything is is if if it's rolling for it rolls for more people. It goes better for more people if if you're if you're open about those things. So I don't I don't I think people are comfortable with the premise of, like, let's do great work and compete and, like, let's go. Yeah. So that I think that is the prevailing spirit here, and I think it you know, I like it. I've always liked it. It's it's always felt like that. It's always felt a little, like, Charmingly kooky. You know, you roll across the the Congress Street Bridge on on, you know, Christmas Day and, like, Santa's riding Cross on a horse. Yeah. You know? And you're like, this is great. Yeah. Like, on the street, horse, Santa, I'm in. Like Or or Santa's riding across the street on a horse in July. Yes. Right. You see that too. Absolutely. So so it's just it's just that thing is is it's it's very accepting, and it I I dig it. You know? It it it makes it easy to live here. And it makes you know, it's it's 12 minutes from here to there unless you go from far south Austin to far north Austin. So I I I I very much enjoy that, and and I don't think it's some of the conversations, you know, and I'm I probably said this to you. I grew up in the upper Midwest, and that was, like, the first question is, like, what's your job? Yeah. You know? And then, like, where did you just go on vacation? You know? Where'd you go to college? Where'd you go to college? Where's the other house? Like, oh, you know, that That doesn't it's almost like people are try I don't know if they're trying to avoid that here, but it just is It's not part of it. It's not that much a part of it Yeah. Which I I I really enjoy. So, So, anyway, the media in Austin, I think that it it's really the perfect place for us to be quarter. Because because because the premise of what the meter is is oh, and you're saying how do we get here? So we said let's do something that incorporates these things that we love and, you know, I I rode by what was a a dilapidated, convenience store on South congress kind of the the the northern end of South Congress. And I was, like, oh, this could be cool. Right? And and and we called and and we put it together so we could could build it there. And, you know, it it it it turned out to be a great spot. You know? It's it's so it wasn't in the in the next few weeks. It was garage. I didn't realize it was a convenience store. Yeah. I mean, I could show You know, it's kind of it was one of those convenience stores with, you know, the bulletproof whatever and sold a lot of lottery tickets and rip off. So it was, you know, it was when that ZIP code was changing. Right. Right. So and, I think that, you know, we we we decided we needed to have a better food element. And and are we are we talking 2019 opening? Or We we opened in in in right. It'll be 4 years this October. Okay. Yeah. So we, you know, opened six months before the pandemic, so we should you know, we could have seen that coming. So, you know, we we and then there was also a bit of serendipity we're trying to consider what we want. We wanted to do more with food. And there was a there was a guy who, I knew from a really cool Mediterranean bakery deli down the street from where I lived in Cambridge, and he was moving to Austin, Andrew Wirth, who who you know, he's part part of our, you know, core team. Mhmm. And, he he was leaving this place called Sofro, which is this wonderful place in Cambridge. And then we bumped into him, Chris and I bumped into him coming out of laundrette. How, you know, however many years ago. Yeah. And we're, like, great. Great Austin restaurant, long blonder it. Wanna do something? And then he was, like, yeah. So, you know, and so it began, you know, began. Yeah. So, it it it, you know, we had the luck of again, some more kind of serendipitous serendipity, however, you know, serendipitous occasion. So, you know, we cobble the pieces together of, you know, a a really wonderful organic biodynamic wine shop with And then at the very beginning, we didn't have much space for the bicycles. You know, we we that the the the the cool little boutique bike shop Finally got open in July of 2020. Yeah. So, and But we we always started with a lot of wine, and, you know, we wanted the food to be good and have great coffee in the morning, you know, with Breakfast tacos, actually, we didn't have at the beginning. We had those. So a lot of it's been this learning experience, and we always chuckle that. And by by the way, just to pay you a compliment, the food is delicious and it's consistent. Thank you. Yeah. And we've been we've been working hard on making that happen. So, you know, I'm I'm I'm accused of being great baked goods. A perfectionist about that stuff. And it's just, you know, again, it's it's finding the right people that dig it, and and We are highly critical of what we do, and we always wanna be better. And I think it the premise was to create a place that had unfussy service Yeah. Counter service where you could get a great salad, you know, and then I, you know, I I can't even tell you what the I don't even remember what the menu was in when we opened, but now it's really wonderful sourdough sourdough crust pizza. And then we're trying to do Roman style pizza pizza, which was hard and Yeah. People didn't quite understand wanna do so. Anyway, now it's sourdough crust really wonderful sourdough crust pizza, great, like, Wagyu beef burger, you know, we we do our Falaficaca sandwich. Yeah. You know, we do we do we do Falafel, focaccia sandwich. Well, actually, that is no that's no longer on the menu. Now it's gone to a Man. Now it's gone to a real whole wrap. Okay. Alright. Well, that that Yeah. So we still have we still have the falafel. So so it's just it's it's it's always evolving and and that's something that, you know, we did at Intelligentsia, which is, like, if it's if it's, you know, it's the whole, like, if it's not broke, like, but, yeah, we wanna keep evolving. Yeah. So we we wanna keep finding Something the next better thing. So so, you know, Meteor and it it was fairly successful pretty pretty quick, like Yeah. How how that how they well, with COVID, you know, how to So so the thing that really, I think changed our trajectory, and, again, was a bit of of good luck, was that COVID hit. And when COVID hit was, like, alright. Let's scratch that. All the same price. No corkage fee if you wanna stay. I mean, people were sitting outside, and and Austin weathered the pandemic, think better than I was gonna say it's a good place to be if if you're gonna be in the pandemic. Yeah. Way better than Los Angeles or San Francisco or or New York. So wasn't it wasn't by a lot. Right? It didn't seem scary, and you could spend time outdoors. So that transformed what we could do with wine. That that people were, like, wow. You know? So it wasn't People needed wine at that time. People need, you know, people people were drinking some wine then. Yeah. But still the idea that you could get a great bottle for $25 natural wine too. Yeah. So that was transformative in regard to wine, and I think that, you know, I have to say, I think our coffee has been really great from the start, but that's, you know, part of the the DNA. Yeah. And then the food, we've continued to make better and better and better. And the bike shop is is, you know, really found its feet. We've got Shout out to the bike shop. I mean, John John takes care of me and just just everyone in there is is great. So yeah. Yeah. We have, I mean, we have great folks in in in, you know, cafe and bike shop, and it's really and and and folks that also our, you know, frankly, our usually cycling enthusiasts or dig the active lifestyle and wine and food. So they're not Just bodies. Yeah. I think that that's the piece that has you know, we want to have great folks and and and reward them and and and create opportunities for them, which is, you know, one of my favorite things about Intelligentsia is, you know, it started as this humble coffee bar, roasting coffee, and it went on to be something that, you know, school, school to a lot of people. Well, people raise families and sent their kids to college and all. I mean, stuff like that, which to me is is just so cool to have that happen because it It's evidence that if you have a good idea and you can, like, keep going and and do good work that good things gonna happen. But it's sometimes it's hard to realize that. And is is there anything, you know, either a philosophy or actual per you know, perks or benefits that that you offer the employees that, you know, is is special or or different. Yeah. You know, I I don't I wouldn't nothing, You know, I I could lie and say, you know, yeah. I mean, it's not nothing outlandish, but Yeah. Yeah. We have health care Yeah. Well, that's that's a lot. You know, that that we contribute to and and then we, you know, employee meals and and and, you know, we wanna see people on bikes. So I think it's it's it's going to become all of that. You know, you do need to be able to get your business to a certain size so you can actually actually that. Yeah. So I think that to answer that question is we want to make it as Benefit rich as we can as it continues to grow. Yeah. I think that this isn't and I will say this with, you know, absolute clear consciousness, isn't just a vehicle For me to be successful. We want to grow and create opportunity for more people. And that's that's part of why, you you know, we don't want that it's not just gonna be a, you know, 3 locations. Yeah. It's going to continue to grow. We wanna create more opportunity for the people that doing great work. Yeah. And and I asked that question because I've noticed folks have stayed around. I mean, they they've really stayed with you. Yeah. I mean, we we, you know, we have we have some, you know, we've had we have some folks that have been around since the beginning. Yeah. And and that's That's rewarding to see. And, you know, other folks have gone their their own way. That's their thing. Yeah. And I think that that's bound to happen. And, you know, the goal has always been to create a culture that is inclusive and values contribution. Every idea is great Yeah. You know, and and including mine. Yeah. So we want contribution. We ask for it. We want you know, we we are entrepreneurial, so we, you know, entrepreneurial. So we, you know, we do want folks that can solve problems. And are feeling bought in and and want wanna contribute. And and we don't wanna have a business Just that it's just, like, what, you know, what do the what do the people at the top of the organization say? Let's wait for that to happen. And and I we want folks that are are capable of helping us drive the whole thing forward And create more opportunity. So that that was always the premise at Intelligentsia, and that that's the premise at the media. We wanna create something that's lasting Yeah. And we wanna Something that provides opportunity to contribute and, yeah, creates possibility for more than a couple people. Right. So so you have, a lot of plans for the meteor as far as expansion. Yes. And so taking kind of a step back, the 2nd location is in Benton Bentonville, Arkansas. That's right. And, as I think most most of the cyclists listening know, you know, Bentonville's home home of Walmart and, and the Walton, I guess, the the Ayers. A couple of them are are very avid cyclists. Have they has there been partnership with them in in your bike company or or in the METEOR. Yeah. They they are they are, a partner in Allied Cycle Works. Yes. Okay. Not in the meteor. Okay. So they I mean but they're involved in in some of the real estate in in Bentonville. Right. So that was yeah. That when that was first built, we were suspicious that it would work and we were wrong. So It really has. I mean, it's really the investment there You you you were suspicious that it might might, not work and then and then it worked out. Yeah. Yes. So so the investment their, you know, I think when they first said, okay. We can do this, and it'll be this. We can, you know, we can do it for this little, and what do you think? And, like, k, you know, little nervous but, boy, was I And they and they incentivized you and made made it clear that They made it they made it a a very tractive. Right. Right. But the if you've gone there, the investment in the trail system, culture, everything, it's, you know, it's Amazing. Right. It's ridiculous. So you can say whatever you want about whatever you want, but the investment in building, A cycling culture and opportunity there is true. Yeah. They're they're putting their money where their mouth is, and they they wanted to make you a part of it. For sure. Yeah. So so that is, you go there and it's like it's like going to a ski town, but it's recycling. Yeah. It's it's the trails and, you know, there's there's there's a couple of glorious museums and there's good food there and all of that stuff. And and, you know, you look at an Airbnb and it's, like, at the trail head or at the whatever, and this many minutes of the trailhead or this, you know, so all of that stuff is is really, you know, in the gravel riding and and the events that on and when did you guys open in in Bentonville? I think I wanna say, like, February of, Right before the pandemic. Oh, it was okay. I didn't realize it was right at right after the meteor here. Yeah. Shortly after. So, so I I can't I don't remember the exact date, but I I wanna say it was the end of February. Right. Right before the pandemic. So, And and by the way, you know, I just I just visited, that cafe in in in Bentonville for the 1st time. Didn't get to ride my bike, but, the the it is something else. I mean, it's a beautiful build out, and clearly, everything is custom. And, I guess, is there there's not only the bike shop, but kind of an ally you know, a lot of really nice allied bikes for, showcasing there. Yeah. So so I think it's, you know, it's putting elements of what northwest Arkansas's offering for bikes. It's, you know, in one place. Yeah. And, yeah. No. It's it's it's gone well. I mean, it took some time, but it it's gone well. And I think the part that's also gratifying is that you can sit at the meter in Austin on Thursday and get on a playing and be in Bentonville on Saturday, and the person you saw arrive by in Austin on Thursday is in Bentonville on Saturday. Right. So the community that's being built and these dots that are being connected. It it it even, frankly, it surprises me. Yeah. And, and and Breakfast Club did a, you know, did an event Yeah. In in Bentonville and and brought brought a you folks, right, to Right. Tour and and take that. The connecting of those, you know, this just sound cliche, the connecting of those dots and then and, honestly, with opening Dallas, I think it will be even more so. So tell tell us about Dallas. Yeah. And and Fayetteville too. I mean, we just, you know, soft opening in Dallas, in the design district, and it's with a partner called Urvi that does really cool luxury apartments and Okay. You know, we're in the ground We're in the ground floor. It it serves the tenants, but then it's also open to the public. Mhmm. And it's right. It abuts the the trail, the loop Dallas that goes around. Okay, Yeah. I I didn't know that. Around the city. Cool. So it's it's a really it's a it's a great spot and, you know, we'll we'll have a a a cool little bike shop that'll probably ready in the middle of September, but the Cafe Pieces is now up and slowly running and getting to run faster. So So forgive us if you go out right after this podcast. I don't know when this is gonna be broadcast, but It it'll be we'll we'll have some time. It'll be a little while. Yeah. So so So, you know, that was another bit of serendipity that somebody had found us and liked what we did and, you know, gave us an opportunity there. So it, Yeah. I I think that it's it's another great market for cycling. There's there's there's, you know, big bigger cities have it and there's people that ride and it's it's this the thing that's distinctive about it that, to me, is really different is that, you know, a restaurant can have a location in Austin and one in Houston or Dallas. And and you don't go I mean, I guess maybe you'd go to the one in Austin and then you'd go to the one in Dallas and say, yeah. I went to whatever Tim's Right. Restaurant boat race. You know, the Rafa story. You wanna you wanna show up and Yeah. Yeah. And just check that box that you've been there. But but I think that With the meteor, you're going to you know, if you if you are someone that rides bikes and you like what we do for food and wine, you'll Those dots are connected and, you know, you you're you'll you'd sit in a meteor cafe and see someone with a meteor hat on or a meteor t Or whatever. Right? And and there is community that's built through it because of the cycling, because of the active lifestyle, because of, like, The wine nerd. Yeah. So all of those, you know, there's, like, a wine nerd There's a lot of there's a lot of overlap with the bike nerd and and the wine nerd and the coffee nerd. Yeah. So so but those people are gonna be, like, yeah. I know the You'll be good there. So you'll see people, and I'm sure it will happen in Dallas too. I guarantee you if you go visit and you sit there, if you're there for 2 days, you'll see Someone you know from Austin or Bentonville. Yeah. And and and our hope is as we spread out, you know, around the country and maybe someday around the world Yeah. That that same sense of belonging and connection the community is there because, you know, anyone that rides a bike or or or competes in, like, an endurance sport, there's there's a a sense of commonality that you know. Yeah. And it's it's the it's the weird suffering that we love. Right? You know? Exactly. So I think that that's you know? And then the, you know, and then the piece of the coffee or the coffee with The people you rode with after or the beer or the taco or the glass of wine that comes after a really hard ride. Right? There. And then I think that that's or the community you got from just starting, like, oh, you know, I'm just starting to ride. Tell me about it. And then, you know, and and then the eyes of the person who's been at it for a long time lights up, like, oh, let me you know, it's so fun. Let me tell you about this. And I think that it's it's a distinctive Connectivity that, you know, I don't wanna say we've there there was intentionality about doing it Yeah. But but it's working. But it's working Yeah. And it surprises me How powerful it is? Yeah. And it surprises me how, yeah, how profound it is, how it is because I think that's you you feel part of something. And I think that that's really I don't wanna say it's completely unexpected, but the to which we found it is much higher than I would have anticipated. And you're you're touching on, my intro to the meteor, which is that the there it it it almost immediately felt like a second home. That's great. Yes. Yeah. And that was, I mean, that was the idea. We we want it to be a place where you could show up. You know, we wanted, you know, in some way to be, like, the best pickup basketball court you've ever been to. Yeah. It's all your friends are there. Everyone plays, you know when to show up, and then, you know, imagine if you can have a great glass of wine after that. Right. So so I think It's it's we wanted it to feel welcoming and unfussy from a service standpoint. We wanted it to feel like a place where cyclists could, like, hang their Cap. Yeah. Well well, I think in in the what also I think you've you've nailed is how, how special the the sort of, you know, the cyclists bond is to their sport, and their and their culture. Culture is the word I was looking for. But then, also, there's something like cool and and counterculture and and just different about that that I think is appealing to other people that aren't cyclists where That's right. They're like, that's a cool ass funky cafe. Interesting people hang out there. Like, I'll I'll go hang out there. Well, and I think it you know, if if I speak to my, like, junior cycling career, you know, cycling has always had, like, better aesthetic. Designing of the design of a bicycle is beautiful, and it it's in its simplicity and what happens. And, you know, it's gotten more complicated with Whatever whatever kind of shifting and all of those things and where we where we run the the the cables, etcetera, etcetera. But Bicycles have and and the aesthetic that goes with it, the jerseys and the fonts, the colors, it's always been beautiful. Yeah. You know, it's And different. And different. It's always Moments and it's it's a sport that is, you know, it's in it's still incredible to watch a stage of the tour and watch somebody make it to the last kilometer and just and then blow up and you're, like, oh, man. Get beat by the sprint at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it is. So so I think that There's a there's a real beauty in the stories that are told, you know, during the Vuelta Augeuro or or tour and you watch them, you know, It takes a long time. It's Yeah. Over 5 hours, but you watch it play out and it's it's really beautiful in, like, the chess match that's played. And even, you know and frankly, like, American Criterion Racing, same thing in an hour. It's more like speed chess. Yeah. But I think that there is that aesthetic is, you know, it's like Watching football, pro sport, whatever. The jerseys that cycling has always considered the aesthetic. I think the design piece has always been Further forward in cycling important. Than than other, you know, other things. Like, does the kit look good? Is it baggy? How's it how's it cut? All that stuff is, you know, is is considered. So I think that and I would suggest that So I think that and I would suggest that cycling historically, the athletes, at least in the United States, have usually been a lit you know, A little a lot more outsider y Yeah. Than whoever was the the the, you know, quarterback in high school. The typical jock. Yeah. So so they might have been a bit more nerdy to begin with. Yeah. So I think that, you know, the the rise of, you know, if you wanna say nerdiness, the rise of the the the the design is considered that people Wanna feel part of something that's, like, you know, loosely held and that they wanna feel like they're in the right place, that they're accepted, that it's welcoming, and I think that's another piece for us that's always been very important. It's, like, we're agnostic. We don't care what bike you ride. Yeah. You know, as as long as you wanna Troy, we we'd love to have you. Yeah. And I think that's another part of it that, you know, has always been we we've been about that since the beginning. So you may say our shop caters more to, you know, racers, but we we'll, you know, we'll fix your tricycle wheel. Yeah. You know, we we you know, so I I think that that's We the the people that work at the media love bicycles. Yeah. And and they're good with people too. And and and people. And they want Not always the case. Yeah. And they and they want more people to get on bikes. That's they love what bikes do for our spirit. And I think that's the piece that, you know, we can all say that we, you know, we still remember the 1st time that we actually, like, could ride a bike. Yeah. And, you know, we would probably all say we we feel We feel certain that we think it sets you free. So Yeah. More of that. Cheers. Yeah. More of that. So so, like, you know, it it's it it and and the wish to then have a place that it's celebrated, but it's still, you know, that is still welcoming of people that don't ride bikes. Yeah. And That maybe riding bikes. And guess what? You can you can love bikes, and you can go to the METEOR, and the the food and drinks are great Yeah. Or you can, like, not be that into bikes. You go the food and drinks and and service are great. So And and and you can but you can be a fan of natural wine or or or you want a nice coffee or you don't wanna think about any of it. You just want it to be a nice experience. That's what we wanna offer, which is all of those things in one place. So and I think when we first opened here, people, like, well, what are you? You know, are you a wine shop? Are you a cafe? Are you a bike shop? Or, you know, whatever. And they're, like, no. It's we're the meteor. Yeah. So that's okay. Yeah. You know, know, that it's okay to have It's a new it's a new category. It's a new category. Right. And so we're talking Dallas, which is opening Right. Essentially as we speak. Right. And and other locations are slated. Right? Yes. Other locations are slated and, you know, I I think nothing's open till it's open, but, you know, we we we're we should have, The premises that we well, Fayetteville is is opening in the spring, and then, you know, we've got another, Let me see if I can do In Fayette We have another 5 after that that are slated, you know. So Fayetteville is is, what, like, an hour from Bentonville or less than an hour? 30 minutes. 30 minutes. Okay. So, I mean, it's where University of Arkansas is. This that one is in an old grain, what I don't know what it's called. Grain refinery. That's the wrong word. But Grain granary? Yeah. And and, backs up to the Razorback Greenway Okay. Trail that connects everything, but also a slightly I mean, it's certainly distinctly different cycling community than Bentonville. Right. But also, you know, World Cyclo Cross championships Chips were there. There's big gravel races there. Joe Martin's based out the stage race is based out of there, so it's got a long cycling, you know, pedigree. Awesome. And then and then there were there are 5 other digits. Yes. The other ones that are that are that, you know, Tucson, Philadelphia, DC, Miami and and Hoboken. Those are all kind of Not not LA yet. No. I I'd like to get to LA. Yeah. I I I think that we're looking at other places as well. Yeah. And Hoboken sounds sounds cool too. Ride your bike outside of the city and you got your destination. Exactly. So so I think that those are, you know, those are on the on the on the slate, and and, Hopefully, we can have all of those come into existence, you know, I think by 2026 is Okay. Kind of the idea. Right. So that, you know, which is which is aggressive. Yeah. It could be a little breathless, but but, you know, the the right things happen. It it certainly can can can happen. So, you know, and then we'll see. Yeah. Then we'll take it from there. So so, you had you had a lot of success with Intelligentsia, and growing the brand, and and, you know, selling the business. And and that I think that made an an impact on food culture and, and you were very instrumental in in, you know, pioneering this sort of cafe culture. And you've started the meteor, which which is getting legs, and we've we've talked at length about why why it's special. You know, Intelligency is, like, a hard a hard act to follow as far as building a successful business. How does the meteor sort of compare to that? Do you do you have, do you have lofty, you know, ambitious plans for the meteor to go, you know, global and and be a recognized brand like Intelligentsia or Yes. Okay. Alright. Alright. I think I think that the answer is that I I think that what is You know, Intelligentsia came up at the same time as some other roasters that were not That was that was similar. Mhmm. You know, if you wanna say La Colome, Stumptown, Counterculture, you know, Verve, you know the names. Yeah. And that market, again, if I said in, you know, 1980 whatever, like, craft beer, you'd be, like, how many how many could there be? Yeah. And and, you know, if the answer was 1,000, you know, and and same thing with, you know, small roasters. Yeah, the market share has exploded. I mean, it's crazy how many people are competing in that business. Yeah. Right? So I think it is It becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish oneself even if you are doing wonderful quality. You know, I have some ideas on what I think will happen, but we'll see. You know? It it, you know, and I think same thing in craft beer. I I don't I go look at that aisle at the grocery store, and I I think to myself, I have no idea how anybody can decide which one of these to buy. Right. So whatever maybe other people can, And that's right. So, so I think that I actually have I think what The coffee bar model is challenged by is that it has to be so busy for a coffee bar to be successful in today's environment. So busy. Just because the average sale is fairly low. Right? So you're not selling bottled wine, you're not selling food, it's, like, Coffee and a pastry. Yeah. And So then people hang out in the cafe for a while. And I and I or and a bag of coffee. But but I just I think It's it's really hard. And and I also think there's so many there's so much, you know, I don't wanna say the competition may not be the right word. There's so many people doing it that, Inevitably, it's going to diminish what is possible for each place to do. Mhmm. Right? So I think that the meteor from a a brick and mortar proposition As well as a brand, you know, what we can sell online and all of those things, I think is Is operating currently in there's not many people doing what we're doing That I can see. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm sure I could be I'm happy to be wrong, and I think there may be maybe there are a bunch of places. Yeah. But, I don't think there are many places that are Boutique bike shop with well vetted products and nice people working there, with a, you know, multi multiple of a of a 100 bottle organic biodynamic wine shop Yeah. That has no corkage if you wanna consume it at the cafe and unfussy counter service with ingredient driven food, you know Yeah. High quality, medium, medium, with real food real good food. And really well executed coffee In one place. Yeah. And I think that it would be you know? And we have really great folks in the bike part. We have really great folks in the food part. We have really great folks in the coffee part. We have really great folks in the wine part that food part, we have really good folks in the coffee part. We have really good folks in the wine part that all care about those things. And I think that the people that are driving that in each one of those Categories, are really, really good at it. And I think that you could Try and go out and hire those people and try and assemble it, but I think it would be hard. I think it would be hard to do well in each of Those you know, like, you can be a great restaurant tour, but doing those people don't really know coffee. Yeah. Or or bike shop. Right. Or or bike shop. They know they like Shop and bike shops. You know? So so it's like so I I feel like I think we have a distinctive, a distinctive collection of of of of of things That will be hard To duplicate. Someone else to duplicate. Yeah. I you know, and I I could be wrong, and and maybe someone's out there doing it, but I don't I don't know who they are. And and does it scale with your, you know, the heads of each of those disciplines, the the bike shop, the food, the the coffee, the wine program? Does it scale with those folks hiring other specialists that they've they've vetted in in the other market? I think that, you know, you mentioned this before. I think I think that A huge part of it is building a culture that reveres each of those things and reveres each of those things. Well, the culture is here, Irin. You guys are delivering. Right? And and Revere's each of those things as they relate to each other. Yeah. And I think that that's the If we can pull that off, and that will be our biggest challenge as it grows, if we can pull that Pull that off and maintain the spirit that it has here and in Bentonville and Dallas. I mean, that And we can maintain that cultural spirit that values each of those things. It isn't just ticking a box for each of those things, but really loves each of those things, and each of those things is demonstratable to our our guests And customers? Yeah. Then it will be something. Well, here here, at the risk of of naming other brands in this conversation. What what we've been talking about this whole time, which which you just touched on, is is the culture, and how the culture appreciates it, and and raises it up, and makes it special in in each of these titties. Right. And, you know, some of the brands I love and and, you know, Rafa's had an interesting trajectory where they opened up all these clubhouses that were were really special when they opened, and and maybe, you know, maybe they're dialing that back a little bit. Maybe they haven't, nailed every aspect of it. But another one is Deos Ex Machina, which which has these incredible, retail stores throughout the world, you know, in in LA and Japan and and, Australia. And if you're, you know, if you're kind of a fan of that of that brand. It's it's a lifestyle thing. Like, I wanna if if I'm in Japan, I wanna go to Deus Ex Machina. You know? So, I think I I think you nailed it. If if you're, you know, if you're able to duplicate the meter experience elsewhere, the cyclists are gonna unite and, you know, they'll they'll appreciate what you do, and then and then other people notice. Yeah. I think that that you I mean, those brands are, you know, brands that I follow and Okay. And they've and they've done they've done good work. Yeah. Yeah. Moto has that. Motorcycle has that, you know, similar Similar. Yeah. Vibe like cycling. Yeah. I think that I think that the the wine and being really good at that and the and and not just kinda phoning it in, if you will, and and having real food is the piece that that that that I think brings it all together. Yeah. I don't know that our concept would be successful if it was one without if we We haven't even talked about the economics. Yeah. We, you know, we we we the the various pieces, I don't know that it would be as compelling, right, without without each of the pieces that. At first, people are confused by why are they together, and, you know, I don't know if you know, somebody else in coffee mentioned this. I don't know if there's a new New York Times game called connections Mhmm. Where they give you, like, 16 words Mhmm. And you try and and they're 4 groups of 4. And the connections are always, you know, can be a little strange Mhmm. Or or, you know, like, it's like, Egyptian artifacts or whatever, you know, or or words that start with flap or what whatever. Right. So So so I think that, I think that the connectivity of the pieces of what the meteor is wouldn't be and also, like, this game. It wouldn't be instantaneously connectable to someone just standing outside side of it. Right? And and it's you you've mentioned this before we started the interview, but it's hard it's hard to to build a restaurant and then Tron and then launch it and and have all these pieces that work in concert and and make money. Right. But then once you walk in and you know and again, it's like me looking at this puzzle. You can look at the 1st time and be, like, woah. That's, like, 16 jumbled words that have nothing to do with each other. And then, like, you look at it again, Oh, I see. I see what they're doing here Yeah. Or what they're trying to do here, or maybe they're inferring you know, they want me to infer this. And I think that the meteor has always wanted to offer a bit of that, like, come along and discover what we discovered and went, woah. Check this out. Yeah. And and I think it's some of that joy that can be discovered between coffee, bicycles, nice food, you know, natural wine. All those things have that sense of place. Pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's it's I I think that Again, I think those other brands are great, but I think having multi dimensions to what you're doing There's there's more. You guys are doing more. Yeah. Having multi dimensions, so continues to be interesting Right. So that you visit a lot. And and, you know, the the let's say, the merch, changes over, the seasonal menu, the wine is always different. That's right. So so so there so I think that and the other piece too with the with the The way the bike shops are, you know, I say that they're they're they're a lot less like typical bike shops, more like a cool surfer skate shop Yeah. Kinda combined with an old school barbershop because you can go in there, and it's just, like, guys chatting. Yeah. And they'll come back, and they'll go get a coffee, and they'll come in, like, what do you got? What's new So the the regularity of visit for us, I think, is higher than most restaurants. I've spent a lot of a lot of money with you guys. So, yes, the regularity is right. The regularity is it seems to be you know, I love to tell you we've collected all this data. Good. But but I see people all the time. So it has the regularity of a of, like, a coffee bar, but then we We also sell food, and I and I see people in the bike shop all the time. And You you you're hitting me in in every part of the wallet there. Yeah. Yeah. I can you know, whatever. There There's wonderful bike shops, but I would only go there when I, like, needed to get something fixed Totally. Instead of, like, oh, I wonder what they got now. Yeah. And we're I feel like we're doing a bit more of that. It is a bit more, like, Lifestyle and fashion and fun and, like, oh, I like the people that are there and and all of those things. So I think that the multidimensionality of it Makes it distinctive. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't Makes it attractive. Couldn't agree more, and I I really, I think I think we've we've covered a lot, and I I think I think this is a great point to start to start wrapping things up. I, gonna be asking most of my guests here this this question or or prompt, I should say rather, but you you've done the the entrepreneurial thing a number of time of times over. And, yeah. I mean, there there are so many, metaphors to to bike racing, and and, you know, I think it's just very powerful, as far as entrepreneurship from what I've gathered that, that just kind of showing up and and staying in the race is is is the point. Mhmm. It's it's why, you know, it's it's, why you race. Win winning is great, but, but ultimately, it's it's the process that, you know, really is is the most meaningful part of the experience. So do you have any any, sort of parallels or or insights regarding entrepreneurship, between bike racing and and business. Absolutely. I I think that, you know, I I I I adore my business partner, Chris St. Peter White, you know, started the business with. Yeah. And he's x very, very outstanding bike racer, One Texas state championship. He's he's tough he's tough. Okay. When when was that? Well, I don't know if it's 40 to 45, whatever. Okay. Some masters gotta go. But anyway, but he's tough. He's tough. You know, and was a wrestler in Wisconsin, so definitely a guy that can take a lot of punches. Tough ass. Yeah. Yeah. So, You know, I was he's a much better bike racer than me. Okay. So still trying to overcome my my genetics. So I I remember asking him about racing, and I said and I think this is it could not be a more perfect a parable for being an entrepreneur. And I said, is there ever a part in the race that's so hard That you wanna quit. And he said, yes. Every race. And I say, well, what do you tell yourself then? And he said, I say this is the race. Mhmm. And that's it could not be more poignant for being an entrepreneur. Everyone can do the easy parts. The hard part. That's the thing. Yeah. That ability to endure when it seems almost impossible is what you have to get past. And I think I think it's not for everyone. It's it's it's hard. Yeah. You you know and I think that, you know, part of the beauty of the meteor is you get to, you know, get that gets expressed in, you know, we ride bikes. We know what the suffering's like. We know how hard it can be. We know all of those things. But But the parable for entrepreneur being an entrepreneur, it's so it could not be more, exact. Yeah. You know, just the easy parts, we can all do yeah. That that's fun, and I'm gonna do the thing I like and all of those things. But the ability to spin spin the multiple plates, the ability to, you know, if you wanna say suffer and endure Yeah. With the confidence that that in for and endure Yeah. With the confidence that that investment is worth it to come out on the other side And, you know, win the race and be glorious. It takes it it it takes a lot of fortitude to realize that. And and faith. Right? And faith. I I think you have to but but there is there is I'm incredibly fortunate that all of the things coalesced for Intelligentsia to, happen. You know? And I and I and I also have the the, you know, I I'd say the fortunate piece that, that, you know, my parents did what they had to do, and I'm I'm I'm stealing this from, from Lyle Lovett. Okay. He really said this at a concert. I was just, like, woah. You are so right about this. He said, my parents did what they had to do so I could do what I wanted yeah. So I always had this you know, I'm like, yeah. If this totally doesn't work, I can, like, go go camp out in their basement. Yeah. So I I had that, you know, if you wanted to call that confidence with Backstop. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they their hustle allowed I need to do what I got to do. So maybe they'll listen. May maybe my mom will listen to this. Send send it to them. Yeah. So, and I think that Intelligentsia taught me that everyone else can up down the street, you know, whatever x y z. You know, there's a spot down the street from our 1st location where I I feel like every coffee company opened the store and closed the store. Wow. You know, I'm gonna write That must that must have been I'm probably satisfying. Probably exaggerating. But each time we're like, oh, shit. You know? Here it goes again. Loudoun's falling out. Yeah. But but but but They all closed. Crazy. You know? So, you realize that the competition I mean, they're going to do what they're going to do, just like in a race. Like, you there's not much you can do about that guy who's got the stars and stripes jersey. Also hurting. Yes. Yeah. But but But the competition's you and, like, how much you can endure. Right? Because because they're gonna do whatever they're gonna do. You know? And and I think that There is a certain level of confidence that you develop after you've been through it, after you have sailed so many rough seas to, again, sound cliche that, like, we're going to make it to the other side. We're going to figure this out. Yeah. And there's a point where you say, like, we're gonna figure it out. Like, I don't know. We're gonna figure it out. Yeah. And and, you know, you you you you have to be comfortable with the idea that it's going to be uncomfortable. Yeah. And and I think what we touched on with the meteor is is almost, like, the probing for what it is. Yeah. And then once you start to have the notion of of, hey. You know, this really multifaceted, you know, restaurant and retail concept. It it really is a meaningful whole when you put everything together. That's where the conviction comes in. Right? And then Well right. And and then you and then then this realization that the effort is worth it. Yeah. And, I mean, I think that that's that's important. That's the way that we built Intelligentsia too. I mean, there were 14 hour car rides over the Andes to get coffee. There were, you know, there was a a story where we got we're in Brazil and the guy's, like, yeah, we're gonna drive us to the coffee field, and it was, like, me and we're in a car and and His car broke down, and he's, like, we'll just take a cab. And I'm, like, okay. Cool. It must not be far. And it was, like, 5 of us mushed in the back seat of a cab For 8 hours, like, to go to, you know, to go Right. See these coffee producers, and it was worth it every time. Yeah. So I think that people don't believe it's worth it. The I think that's a great insight. And and and it my experience is it is that it always is. Yeah. And you But you have you have to find that gear, that that moment in the race where you're where you don't wanna push anymore. Well and and and and I think that you can there's so many gatekeepers in today's society too. It's like you're trying to get this thing and no. No. But but you have to realize that the reason people are where they are is because they figured out how to get around those gatekeepers or all over those hurdles. It's been done. It's been done. Yeah. And and and also sometimes maybe it hasn't been done, but that doesn't mean that it can't be. Yeah. And I think that's the thing that successful entrepreneurs really believe is, like, if I put this effort in, It'll be worth it. Yeah. You know? And and and and in a bicycle race, you know the guys that are gonna try and win. Yeah. And it's not gonna be easy. Right. You know? They're gonna they could calculate and try and figure out and wait this brand. Or they're gonna, like, go for it Yeah. And they might get caught before they make it to the line, but next time they're gonna win. Right? So it's a lot of that Same, like, it's gonna hurt. Learning a thing or two and coming back. Yeah. And it's it's going it's going to hurt. There's no you know, it's like, you you know, there's no way you know, I I try and have this kind of conversation with my daughter, and she holds her eyes. I feel like I'm just telling you You can send her the podcast too. Like, I'm just telling you, if you want it to be worth something, it's gonna hurt. Yeah. It's not you're not just gonna waltz in. Like, that was great. Super easy. Yeah. That doesn't happen. Yeah. They're they're correlated. Yeah. And and just And inextricably. Trick of belief. Yeah. And realize the effort is you have to trust that it's going to be worth it. And I my fortunate Grant is that it is. It's paid off. Yeah. Yeah. And and not not just, you know, in in the dollars, but in the in the experience for you. Yeah. I think that the look, the the dollars I would say that most entrepreneurs Are yes. The dollar has come. That that's fine. But they did it because they dug it. They were they were after us. Into it? Yeah. I mean, and and to me To walk into a meteor and see happy people, you know, whether it's at the bike shop or Kim Cawthorn, like, it's so satisfying. Yeah. I I kind of accidentally got in that, you know, if you wanna call this hospitality. It's really satisfying. And then it's really satisfying to see the community that's built. So, you know, is is it does it need to be economically viable? Does your business need to be economically viable to, like, offer health care or, you know, whatever benefits that that build as you're more capable, it does. Yeah. It's not magic. So, you know, you have to be able to run a business. You know, I think I said to somebody you, you know, like, you you have to be very busy, And you and you have to be a good operator. Yeah. You you can't be 1 or the other. Yeah. You know? So it's it's it's you you have to be doing all of it right. But I think it I think caring about the right things and getting the pieces right will lead to the economic viability. Comic viability. Right. Yeah. And you have to make sensible decisions. But I also think being on your own timeline helps, All of those things help so you can get a better look at it. So for me in this round versus, versus Intelligentsia, I think that there's I have a bit more it's a bit it's not a bit it's a lot more comfortable. Yeah. It's a lot more comfortable, and we can look at each thing. But that doesn't mean there's not nervous days. Yeah. There's always nervous days. Yeah. And and you had you had COVID, you had, you know, shutting down Little Rock. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not not all. No. It's right. But but but that's it. As you as you you you, you know, and you can make mistakes if you learn from them and and move decisively. Yeah. Alright. Well, Doug Zell of the Meteor and Allied Allied Bike Works. Right? Allied Cycle Works. Cycle Works. Yes. Thank you so much for joining me today. I mean, this has been an incredible conversation. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Cheers.