Driveway Series Race Director Chris Tolley Presents, TOLLEYWOOD

If you’re racing bikes in Austin, TX, welcome to Tolleywood. The timing of this episode could not be more opportune given the slate of projects Chris Tolley has planned for 2024, and what I love most about this race promoter, is that he understands the value of branding, not just for individual races but for the sport of cycling on the whole. Chris’s background is firmly entrenched in BMX riding, where style, technical ability and strength are all required. “Style” is the component that is frequently missing from road races and Tolley has vowed to take the extra steps to make his races look good by anyone’s standards. These branding and digital marketing skills have come through years of cultivating an egocentric online persona that both mocks influencer culture while it effectively influences culture. All of these qualities on top of elite crit racing accolades make Tolley a VERY effective hype man, and one that Austin is lucky to have. Tolley is the race director of Driveway Series, America’s most prolific race series, and he has a burning desire to deliver an exceptional experience to all parties that seems to be driven mostly by the challenge of making it as good as it can possibly be. This is not an episode about business so much as passion for culture, two wheel motion and community. 

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Theme Music: Summer Vibes by Rizik

Transcript

0:10

I've I've rolled my ankles playing soccer for Yeah. For 10 years. And and, and so I started riding when I was, like, 30, but there's, like, no there's no way in hell I would have started, you know, riding or racing when I was a teenager. No. Like, there was Oh, dude. I didn't even know it existed. I didn't even know it was a thing. I didn't know anything about it. Like, no nothing. Didn't even know. I remember when I lived in Columbus and, like, oh, yeah. There's a crit. I was like, what's a Crit. I'm like, oh, there's, like, categories. Like, ABM. Like, what is what are you talking about? I never did it. Yeah. Even though I got. It's just like yeah. It's like exposing people. It's, like, hard. Yeah. But it's, like, also, like, something, like, literally anybody can do. If you're racing bikes in Austin, Texas, welcome to Tollywood. The timing of this episode could not be more opportune given the slate of projects Chris Tolley has planned for 2024. And what I love most about this race promoter is that he understands the value of branding, not just for individual races, but this for the sport of cycling on the whole. Chris's background is firmly entrenched in BMX riding where style, technical ability, and strength are all required. Style is the component that is frequently missing from road races, And Tali has vowed to take the extra steps to make his races look good by anyone's standards. These branding and digital marketing skills have come through years of cultivating an egocentric online persona that both mocks influencer culture while it effectively influences culture. All of these qualities on top of elite crit racing accolades make Tali a very effective hype man and one that Austin is lucky to have. Tali is the race director of driveway series, America's most prolific race series. And he has a burning desire to deliver an exceptional experience that seems to be driven mostly by the challenge of making it as good as it possibly can be. This is not an episode about business So much as passion for culture, two wheel motion, and community. Please enjoy. Chris Talley, welcome to, Hope Climbers episode 6. Sweet. Thank you for being here. Thanks for taking the time. Off the Internet. Yeah. Thank you. I'm hyped. This is gonna be fun. And we got, we got Ramblers in our hand here. Rambler. Yes. Big You know how many we went through at driveway? I counted. You're you're a data guy. Well, yeah, there was over, I think, 5,000 200 over the course of the 30 weeks of driveway. Alright. And they're all free provided by Rambler, so I gotta shout out to them they made this year a lot more fun. And now and now we can, we can feature them when we promote it. So that's that's fantastic. A 100 of cases. Yeah. Alright, man. Well, we got we got a lot to talk about. Yeah. We do. Before we started the official part of the interview, we were talking about, having too much on our plate Yes. And and that being a theme, and it's not a bad way to live. Right? Having having a lot going on and one life, try trying new things. Right? Yeah. So I think to kick things off, we can we can kinda do it in the, at this point, Hill Climbers has a a little bit of history. How'd you start riding bikes? What's what's the story? Oh, goes back, I think, like, 12 years old. Okay. Yeah. Like, I like you know, I grew up in LA. Tried skateboarding, and I didn't, like, really pick up. It was, like, huge in the valley. When did when did you start skating? 10, wanna say when I started skating. I think I did, like, scooters too, but, like, I like older cousins that, like, rode BMX. Okay. And And bikes are a lot more, like, freeing than, like, a board. You know, you have to, like, rely on your parents to, like, oh, I gotta go, like, the skatepark, BMX bike, you can just, like, go. And my parents, like, did not care what I did, which was tight. So, yeah, BMX, I could just, like, go out all day. I had 3 sisters who's, like, you know, just escaping. You have more sisters than I. I have 2 sisters. That's that's a lot of sisters. I know. Only boy. So, yeah, it was a lot of testosterone. Yeah. So I had to get it out. So I understand, you grew up in LA. Correct. And then, at what point you moved to Ohio, went to a very small town in Ohio. Yes. Yeah. That was, I would say rough. And, like, when I say small town, like, people think, like, oh, like, couple 1,000 people, 600 people. Right. From Los Angeles. A small town. Yeah. It's the most small. It it had a there's no stores. It had a post office. My mom grew up there. Okay. So we were, like, close to my grandparents. Got it. So, yeah, there was nothing to do. And I didn't have a car as in freshman year. Okay. So you would've been, like, 14. Or Yeah. Yeah. I left. It was prime time to leave, LA, you know, when you're going to high school with all your friends, they're like, hey. We're moving to Ohio. And I'm like, oh, shit. This sucks. Yeah. But fortunately, I had bikes. Like, build dirt jumps in the woods, and that's pretty much how I survived. Okay. Yeah. Because, like, there's tons of, like there's, like, an abandoned, coal plant. It's actually it was, like, one of the targets. Real creative. It's down 600 people in Ohio. There was nothing there. Yes. So it was, like Your imagination. Right? That's all we had. So it was, like, these, like, you know, these woods, a coal plant that was abandoned. No one cared what we did back there. No one cared what we did anywhere in that town. I, like, blew stuff All the time. And, like, there's, like, no. There's no there's no police. Yeah. It was sick. Lot of experiments. Yeah. So, yeah, that's you know, riding just kept me alive for sure. So did you, did you kind of, like, notice on Instagram you've got some serious BMX skills, like Yeah. Did you did you take it kinda seriously? And and, you know, with skateboard, I grew up skateboarding. So a lot of self discipline, self mastery. Was that part of it for you, like, learning tricks, getting good at BMX when Yeah. For sure. No. I mean, it's definitely, like, a lot of I mean, it's only, like, a lot of I mean, it's weird because it's, like, BMX is the most, like, undisciplined group of people, but, like, to get good, you have to be disciplined. It's, like, very strange. But, I mean, I honestly credit it to, like, moving a lot because, like, I, like, had to restart friends, like, a lot. And but the one thing that was, like, a constant was bikes. Yeah. So it's It's like, oh, well, it's like, as long as I have this, like, I'm good. Like You got some social capital. It's like, oh, this kid can ride his bike. Or it's like, I don't even care about that. Be honest, like, I was, like, as long as I can ride my bike, I was alone, like, riding skate parks, digging trails by myself. Like, I didn't care. And, like, there wasn't a huge seen, until I got to Columbus, of, like, the other, like, BMX exercises, like, by myself, but, like, I have something like that was, like, fine. So it's like I could spend, like, all day every day riding and digging, and, like, that's what matters. Yeah. It was cool. And that's that's one way you get good at it. And so so now this was a question, I I was excited to ask. So, again, I grew up skateboarding. And, actually, the the look the Hill Climber's logo is inspired by this my local skate shop in Philadelphia. Oh, hell yeah. So the next I think the next episode we're gonna do is the story of of the skate shop and the logo, and I actually interviewed the the skate shop owner. But my question for you was was gonna be, how do you think skating so skateboarding is very, very hard or technically very hard. Yes. I always looked at BMXers. Was, like, that shit looks harder than skating. Would would you agree? How do you how do you, how do you compare them? It's tough. I feel like I'm gonna get shit for, like, Any comparison I draw or, like, saying, like, one's harder than the other is, like but I, like, hang out with a lot of skaters. I mean, I was, like, at riding Mueller Skateboard this morning. And, like, some of the stuff they're doing, I'm like, how does that, like, happen? Because, like, for me, you have a lot more control with the bike because, like, you're attached to it in, like, more But it's also, like, more work to move around. So it's I don't know. It's, like, technically, I do think skating's harder, but at the same time, BMX is There's something scarier about it. Got this large piece of hardware that's traveling with you. Yeah. There's and it, like, hits you. I mean, my shins are a testament. Like, it looks like I have just been, like, mauled. But yeah. And so you also, like, go higher, and you usually jump down bigger stuff. Like, there's, like, a limit to what Skaters can do. I think it's, like, 24 foot draw. So BMX have, like, gone beyond that. Yeah. Also, like, trails. I mean, the biggest set of trails I mean, one of the biggest sets in the country Drew's actually, like, in a park. I won't drop the park name, but K. Those guys are going, like, 30 feet at, like, 35 miles are over, like, 40 foot gaps. Yeah. It's, like, it's instant. I mean, they have a jump that it's called speedball, but, like, multiple people get concussions there, like, All the time. It's just And again, like, there there's some, you know, like, Danny Ray and Tony Hawk. Those guys, like, did those huge jumps, but Yes. That was a closed court. Like, there's something there's something gnarlier about doing it in in the woods with, it's like a pungy pit below you too. Like, there's, like, just tree limbs sticking out, like, rusty stuff Everywhere. Right. But at the same time, like, BMX is, like, there's so many disciplines to it, where it's like there's, like, technical street. Read there is, you know, dirt. There's, like I mean, there's this guy like R Willie who's just, like, doing, like, circus tricks And on these, like, massive ramps that, like, were like, he's invented, like, probably, like, 10 tricks in the last, like, 5 years Right. Or less than that. And, yes, there's, like, so many disciplines, but, yeah, skating. I don't know. It's like it's so gnarly, though. I see dudes in, like, Portland shredding bowls, and I'm like, that's the sickest thing. They're going huge. So it's tough, but, yeah, both take a lot of time and discipline. Yeah. And in just being insane. And and harder than than rollerblading. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm up with you. I got I'm throwing respect. Like, I used to be I'm just talking shit. Oh, no. No. No. It's like, I get it, but, like, also, like, the rollerblading so I've seen, like, kids at skate parks just, like, blow their ankles out. Like Yeah. And they're going down, like, the big those are the biggest handrails out of anybody. It's it's rollerbladers. And, like, I now, like things attached. So Yeah. The things attached for sure. And, like, then there's, like, the argument with, like, Scooters, for me now, I have to respect everybody who's, like, doing something, like, gnarly where you could get hurt. Like, if you fall down a 40 flight like, a 40 set of stairs on a pair role play is like, you're going to the hospital. It's just like and, you know, a lot of people aren't doing that. So it's like for a for effort. A for effort. For sure. I'm, like, giving everybody cred these days. It's it's hard out there. I appreciate the positive perspective on that. I try to be positive. We touched on BMX. To as far as other stuff, you know, music, any any other sorta, like, passion, what were you like as a kid? Oh, man. As a kid. I mean, I played, like, football and stuff, I think, like, my mom really want me to do that, which, like, it didn't really took. There was, like, too much, like, structure around it, and I had to rely on a lot of other people. So I was It's, like, not a 100% fair. Yeah. And but, like, I would say, honestly, it was, like, mostly bikes. I, like, got super into clothes when I was young too, which, like, in Ohio was, like, a kind of a strange thing. Like That's that's that LA influence. It I mean, it was. For 10 years. Well, I just, like, I didn't wanna I go you go from LA, which is, like a very, like, independent place. And you go to Ohio, which is, like, relatively conservative. And I just wanted to and I had, like, long hair. I was, like, super into, like, Speed metal, it was, like, pretty There you go. But I, like, yeah. That was, like, another thing. Like, I would go to, like, Slayer shows and Iron Maiden and Yeah. Pantera and all that fun stuff, but I, like, didn't wanna fit in intentionally in Ohio. I was just like, I'm not these people. Yeah. I am not, like you know, I'm I don't go hunting. I don't do all this stuff now. It's like, would be funny because my perspective on, like, so many things have changed. But, yeah, back then, I wanted to, like, stick out, so I, like, just, like, 10 year old you, 12 year old, they they was making a stand. Yeah. I was making a stand. It was weird. But I was, like, yeah. It's like, I wanna go, like, thrifting and find, like, weird clothes. And then that, like, turned into, like, somehow high fashion. I ended up, like, working in a, you know, Barneys for a couple years ago after college. Yeah. It was weird. Wild we're we're, we're at Barney's, like, a retail location? Retail. Men's designer, Copley Place. RIP, Barney's, though. They went under pre pandemic, though. So they got out Before, you know They, they had a great, ironically, a great online store. Like, I used to buy stuff from them all the time. They were, yeah, cutting edge as far as, like, online retail, they had a co op here too. I was, like, trying to switch to In Philly, they had a co op. Yeah. It was great. But, yeah, that didn't last. But, you know so, yeah, that was it, though. It was always bikes, man. Okay. So set the stage as far as the the childhood, BMX thing, I think you mentioned that you got into you you went to school in in Boston? Yes. So so LA, Ohio, and then and then Austin. Yeah. Trying, yeah, trekking across. Trying to experience, like again, tried to escape Ohio. Trying to experience, like, a lot of stuff. Didn't really wanna go to Ohio State even though it's free Mhmm. Which is in hindsight, you know, not the best idea. But, hey. You know, you're young. You're in love. You wanna go to Boston. Follow your girlfriend there. It didn't work out. But, hey. What are you gonna do? But, yeah, it was cool. And, like, That is like you know, it was a cool experience living on the Northeast. Don't everyone moved back there. I like the eternal summer that I have here. I will not lie. 9 years Strong. So Okay. Yeah. Alright. So so, Boston is where you got into to road riding. Right? Yeah. Well, I would say it's a were you had a taste before that? I had a small taste. So I like the story, of me, like, getting into road riding. Yeah. I blew up my DLs, both of them, riding BMX. Mhmm. I was, like, I think I blew the first one, 17 junior high school, 540 out of this bank. I was, like, I just heard it pop, and I literally could see my knee swelling. Mhmm. And I didn't have health insurance at the time, which was, like, pretty rough. Even though I was 17, my dad switched jobs. And I was like, how do I get this to not hurt? And so a few months in, my, like, friend let me his, like, single speed, and I just, like, started pedaling around. And from there, like crazy story of how Yeah. Well, it's riding a road bike. Yeah. I was well I just, like, had so much energy, and I, like, didn't wanna play video games. Like and when I did get surgery, like, I could I just, like, couldn't sit still. So I had to chill for, like, 8 weeks before I got on, like, bike. But then having a road bike, I couldn't do BMX, couldn't do impact, but I could do, like, you know, casual riding like, road riding. And, like, that was, like, kind of the time when, like, fixed gear stuff was, like, kinda popping off. Mhmm. There was, like, MASH, Maka From, a, like like, the OG, like, fixier stuff was, like, kind of in the zeitgeist thing. Sorry to date you, but, like, what years are we talking? When you when got the 2007 to 2008? Right. Yeah. Like, I borrowed. I remember, like I feel like that would have been on the front of a a fixed gear sort of trend. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's when That was in early days. Early days. Yeah. I would I mean, like, people were, like, bike messenger culture and stuff had been around for a while. And there's, like, documentaries from, like, the nineties on that stuff. But, like, there are, like, group rides. Group rides and racing. Group rides. Different. Right? Yeah. For sure. But there's, like, group rides. It was, like, critical mass. I don't know if anyone, like, remembers that. Like, I don't think it's around anymore. I feel like they got into, like, some hot water, by getting, like, too big. But, Like, everyone had fixed gears. Like, every college kid, like, wanted, like, a vintage, like, NJS, like Yeah. Track certified, like, fixed skier. Yeah. And it was, like, the cool thing to have, like, putts around campus on. And so that I, like, got one of those, like, from my buddy. And yeah. I was, like, loved it. I was just, like, I could I had too much energy to sit still. I hated video games. Well, it's kinda like you said before. It's the freedom thing too. Oh. When you're when you're that age, you know, you don't have a lot a lot of money in material possessions, but you can, like, get around. Get around. Yeah. I could go and, like, I didn't have anything else to do. And, I mean, I remember I would go on, like, road bike rides, like, in jean shorts, shirtless in the middle of, like, cornfields in Ohio, like, just, like, listening to music. Yeah. And it's just, like, Listening to music. Yeah. And it's just, like, it was great. I, like, had spent all day doing that because I used to spend all day riding BMX. Right. And it just kinda stuck. And, like, fortunately, like, it healed my knee so I get back to BMX, and I would say it fell off, like, I didn't, like, immediately, like, keep or I didn't, like, Stay riding road. It took me a little bit to, like, save up to the bike. Okay. Alright. So, so that's a great transition. And by the way, it's interesting that you destroyed both of your knees because I I think within racing, you're sort of known for for having power. Yes. So we'll we'll come we'll come back to that later. Full circle. So what, did you did you start racing in school in Boston? Or or how how did you start racing? Racing. I was, like, trying to think of, like I did alley cats. So, like, kind of racing. Like so it'd be, like, point to point, like, unsanctioned through the streets of Boston. And I think I'd started doing that, like, right out of college. Okay. Like, I was, like, I had to, like, pay my way school, so I had, like, 0 time to like, I could ride, but, like, I couldn't make races on the weekend. What what did you do for work there? Sushi delivery driver. Ever. Alright. Oh, yeah. It was like well, it's like school and You got a lot on your resume. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. I'm sure I can't even remember the name of the places I worked at. That was, like, pre, like, Every everyone had, like, an app that you could just go to, like, in electric scooters. Like, I don't even know if, like, people do car delivery in Boston anymore. Yeah. But I did it through, like, oh, god, Dicks, winters, so many blizzards. But Yeah. That that'll leave an indelible mark on you being a delivery driver in a Boston winter for In Summerville? Yeah. I don't know if anyone's been it's like the roads are, like, just straight down. It was like but it made me a strong, like, road racer. I won't lie. Because I, like some bike skills? Well, just like just I wanted to take KOMs on Strava, and, like, they're all just these steep hills. I would just, like, hit them as hard as I could on Fig Skate. It was sick. Delivering sushi. Well, there, I I would sometimes do it on my bike, but, like, a lot of times I do it on my car. Right. Because I was like, I would, what do you call it? It would be school. It would I would go home. I would drive across town, go deliver sushi, get off your homework, and then, yeah, it was rough. But, hey, we did it. I'm out. That's hardcore, man. Yeah. But, yes, it was yeah. I don't know where I was. Where where all this is going. So so my question really for you is how do you transition from, you know, the the single speed fixed gear and in, on the road racing. So, man, I wanna say I got my fur I mean, it's roommates. They got into it, who were, like saving up for Yeah. I was I was saving up like, at first, like, wanted to get, like, a really sick track bike. And I would do, like, 100 mile, like, rides on a track bike, throughout Boston. It was, like, hilly, but, like, not unmanageable. And then my roommates were, like, super into cyclocross, which is, like, huge in the northeast. And, they were like, Christy, you gotta try racing. Like, we'll get you a road bike. And they actually started, like, a Renegade Crit in the Boston's, like, South End area. Was, like, around this, oh, I forget what the name of the factory was, but, we call it, like, Blue Falcon. It was, like, the crate in, like, open roads. Like, There'd be, like, the periodic semi that would roll through, but, like, everyone just kinda went around it. I started doing that on a fixed gear. Got and then I finally got a road Bike. And they took me to, like, my 1st, like, race. It was so weird. I think I was out the night before at a warehouse rave, and I was there till, like, 5 in the morning. And then And you're you're, like, 20 years old? 20? No. I'm, like, 25 at this point, I think. Yes. It's 2014. I think it was 25. And I'm like, okay. So I gotta wake up wake up at, like, 2 hours later, 7 AM. I'm a cat five. My race is first. Obviously, I mean, shout It's all the cat fives out there. They're still trying to make it happen. That that's me. That's better. I'm still got It gets better. I'm telling you. You race start gets later. It gets harder is more time, but, like, you know, you you don't have to sit in the dregs. But, yeah, it was, like, Blue Hill road race, and I had no idea what I was doing. I, like, Was all my roommate said was, like, follow wheels, and then last lap, go as hard as you can. I was like, okay. It's like, that's what I'll do. I had, like, no no concept of, like, what I was good at. Like, was a sprinter. Like, I didn't even know there was, like, different types of, like, riders. Like, I was just like I didn't watch, like, road racing. I didn't know anything. And then last lap comes around. I'm on the front riding as hard as I can. And then the final sprint comes around, and I see someone try to pass me. I just go harder, and I won. It was Sick. Awesome. You won your 1st race. I won I won every race until I got to Texas. Wow. Yeah. It was weird. I mean, I won it's like, I think it's. It's like there's, like, regionals For cat fives? It's like 1 lap. That was I won that, and then I won this one as a cat four, which was, like, Jamestown classic, Which is, like, super cool. It's, like, on a little island or islet or something like that around a, lighthouse. Okay. Super beautiful. Very authentic the northeast Oh, it was classic. Yeah. It was, like, waves crashing on the rocks. Yeah. I won that. I just, like, I didn't even it was so fun. I mean, racing back then, like, there's these are great raised by, like, I had no idea what I was doing. I was like, oh, like, when do I go? Like and then I was just like, I'm just gonna go as hard as I can. Totally. And it worked. Yeah. But yeah. So and then I moved down here and it got a lot harder. Okay. So so is that, how, basically, you you you started a driveway. Is that is that the how Yes. Tally meets driveway? Is that the Yeah. Because I, like, I packed up In Boston, I was, like, I just couldn't I couldn't myself. Like you were still really, you know, kind of a novice racer. Oh, yeah. I was a Cap 4 when I arrived here. In Austin, I Yeah. Yeah. Cat 4, this was 2015. I moved here, packed up, quit my job, and I, like, saved up. I was like, I'm gonna take, like, 6 months off and just, like, go, like, ride my bike and, like, ride BMX and stuff. Like, my mom had just passed away too. So I was just, like, I need, like, a break from, like, life. And how'd you decide on Austin? I always wanted to go here. Actually, this is funny story, but I, like, used to go to a youth camp down here. Okay. I think yeah, I think youth camp. Yeah. It's in Lakey, which is, like, the best riding in Texas. I'm going there this weekend, actually. Okay. So I used to fly down there. My dad was a piano player, and that was just, like, get to go to this camp. It's, like, put on by, like, the people that own, HEB. So, yeah, my dad would play for them and, like and then I was just, like, Down at their camp It all comes back to HEB Texas. I mean, it is I will say they're the greatest family of all time. Like, it's like there's most solid people. But, I was like, oh, Texas is the sickest place. Like, there's, like, cold water, and it's like I'm outside all the time. Like, I don't care if it's hot. Like, it had, like, their own version of Barton Springs there. It was, it's called Blue Hole. It's, like, the best swimming spot of all time. And, yeah, I was like, okay. It's like, I'll go here. And then, You know, it's actually Austin. A lot of people don't notice this, like, a BMX capital. Like, it's here and, like, California, like San Diego, Long Beach. So I read recently the Austin Business Journal that they're bringing a a BMX race to North Austin. Did you hear about this? Oh, well, there's a track up there. Like a fully set like a fully Built out, like, BMX track. They don't honestly, like, BMX racing is it's definitely a younger like, I would say, like, 12 year old and, like, sort of thing. Like, it's like kids do, like, really young, like, younger than they would do road racing. A lot of, like, juniors will come from, like, BMX from what I've seen. Actually, I did not know Austin or that the this region was a a cat, you know, mecca for Oh, yeah. It's what we had. This was like, you go, pre gen super gentrification, Austin. They had night street trails, it still exists, which is they're gonna be there forever, which is awesome. But they also had this ramp. It was owned by the BMX company called Terrible One. It's on the east side. Like, it's now like a condo. You know? And everyone had backyard ramps. There were sets of trails everywhere. There still are. They're just, like, You know? They're just kind of getting pushed out a little bit more. Yeah. And yes. But there's also, like, a few com BMX companies here, Odyssey, which is, like, run by another brand, Full Factory, Empire BMX. We're, like, the sickest people of all time. They're based here. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, I knew, like, I didn't know anybody here. I was just like, I have a bike, and I have a bike. I know there's BMXers here, so it'll be fine. And that's like yeah. That's it. Yeah. That's all I needed. So yeah. Great, great story. And then, you arrive in Austin Yes. And you start you start really raising crits. Right? Yeah. I don't think Eventually. Well, the only crit I'd ever done before I got to Austin was Red Hook Crit Okay. In the rain. Pouring rain. That was my 1st race, actually. Well, when I say that was that was my 2nd race. Pouring rain, Brooklyn, like, Just the craziest race experience of all time. That was my 1st, like, crit and it's on fixed gear. But, yeah, when I got Did did you win that 1? No. That was like that was Redhook was, like, getting in, Like like, more people were coming into it. And I was like, it was pouring around. I didn't know anything. I think I pulled my tires up to, like, 110. And I was just, like, hitting these corners. People are, like, dying all around me, and I'm like, I I got 20th, like, which back then, like I mean, I'm trying to think if that was my 1st race, if Jamestown or that was town or that was first. I can't remember. But, like, my first, like, road race Right. Was, the one in Blue Hill. But then, yeah, Red Hook was my So, like, set the stage for, you know, you you arrive in Austin. Yeah. You discover or rediscover driveway Yes. And start racing, like, what what was I guess the the year would have been 2015. And and what was going on in drive driveway in 2015? 2015 driveway. I've oh my. I remember hitting people up on, like, Instagram and, like, maybe Facebook. I was like, hey. Does anyone go to this? And then I, like, I had no idea Mhmm. What I was walking into. And 2015, oddly enough, was, like, the year that driveway, like, had the most people of all time Okay. Racing. Yeah. And I was, like, floored. It did not make sense how, like, cool it was, especially coming from Boston where there was, like, nothing like that. I had never seen, like, a bike racing community, like, ever. Like So how many how many, are we talking about in in starting line, like Oh, a 100. Easy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every field, I think, like it was the first one. I went I think I went to the first one and sold out. And, I think I did the cap or 5 race? The the fur was it the first one ever ever? Or the first, well, the first one of the season. Yeah. Driveway goes back, like, I forget. Like 20 years? Yes. Something like that. It's, like, pre, like, 2011. It's kind of like I don't know the exact story. I have the data back to 2000 Twelve, but I think, like, 2011 is when, Andrew Willis took it over, I think, from Barry Lee, and it used to exist, but there was, like the track has, like, changed multiple We can get into that. It's fun. The history of driveway. But, So, like, a a 100 in the field in a race, was there a decent crowd of supporters and sponsors. Everyone's drinking. It was nuts. Right. Right. It was like a party. Party. It was a party. Someone described it to me the other day as like a carnival. And I just like, yeah. That makes sense. Like, a bunch of, like, sweaty people, like, in spandex and, like, hooting and hollering, and there's, like, inflatable thing. I'm like, yeah. It's like, it is a carnival. Yeah. It's just yeah. Or a circus. And and, we can talk about this as well. Austin was probably a little bit different 8 or 9 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. No. Awesome. I mean, it's pretty wild to, like, see a city going through, like, a gold rush sort of thing, like, where everyone's flocking here. But, yeah, back then, it was a little more, like, you know, grimy in, like, a in a fun way. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you could go like, now it's like you don't go to, like, backyard, Like, parties during South by. Like, everything is some branded event, like, put on by, like, a vodka company or something like that. But, you know, it's it is what it is. You know? Those times, like, they can't last Forever. Yeah. You want them to, but it's, you know, different. So, can you can you tell me about your history racing at driveway? I mean, some some, sort of successes, some some maybe failures. Oh, yeah. What are what are driveway. What are some, what are some memories that you you have racing driveway No. I mean, I like it's funny because, like, all the people that I, like, raced with then are, like, still racing. We've all kind of, like, come up through the ranks. But I remember racing the 4 or 5 race, first race ever. And, I think it might have been Mike Reyna. God bless him. But, like, I think he went down in front of me off of somebody else's wheel, and then I, like, bunny hopped over him. And then that was the end of my race. I was just like but it was, like, 2 laps to go or something like that. And I remember in my head, I was like, I'm not doing the 4 5 again. I'm gonna just do the 3 4. Like, I'm too strong for I was overconfident. But, yeah, I mean, I was out there. I mean, I'd love to, like, look back at my, like, race history because I have all that data now. So, but, yeah, I raced, like, every week, and I, yeah, I loved it. It was so fun. And, like, I figured out I was like, oh, I'm a sprinter. Like, that's, like, what, you know, I was good at. And I did, like, the early season stuff, like pre driveway, like Lago Vista. Yeah. I think I missed Pace Bend because they didn't understand What it was? It was like back then, it was really hard to figure out, like and still kinda is, like, what are the big races? Like, What's everyone going to? Like, you had you do have to rely on, like, social media and, you know, be in the community to kind of figure that out. So Totally agree with that. It's it's, and even, just going sometimes the bike reg, like landing pages, they're they're not they're not that helpful. That's trash. Yeah. No. You kinda rely on people being really good at social media, right, to to get info. Which is, it's mostly you better be part of team Yeah. It's where where, you know, they can lay the schedule out for you annually. Exactly. Yeah. Team like, now there's, like, I try and be can I, like, look back at my own experience? I'm, like, okay. It's, like, what? If I was, like, new here, like, how would I find out about this stuff? Right. And so I try to be pretty good about that. Like, how do I get these out? How do I promote it? Like, how do I, like, you know, there's people that don't know about driveways still that, like you know, what there's 1 I think I think a lot of people that are mostly more casual cyclists, like, don't know about it and would love to just, you know, show up and experience it and hang out. Yeah. I mean, that's how, like, you get It started in racing. Like, it's like a fast group ride. Like and then you're like, oh, what's this? And then, like, here's, like, several steps to, like, get to be a bike racer because, like, not everyone starts like a junior and because their dad was in it. Like Yeah. Which is, like, you know, like, a path a lot of people take, especially when they're, like, really good. But, yeah, it's like you find out about Bike racing, like, you know, you can in your thirties and, like, start. It doesn't you can start racing in your forties as a master. It doesn't matter, which is tight. You can still be competitive, like, You know, at whatever age is awesome. So one of our past guests, Caitlin Cash mentioned that she started racing because of the mentoring program at Driveway. Yeah. Can you share a little bit about that. Yeah. And we actually still have that going on. That's a huge shout out to the Lead Out Foundation, and Carla and the the team over there Because they do, not only, like, our officials and stuff like that at the driveway, but also mentors during racing. So, like, people That, like, hang, like, towards the back of the race and kind of, like, coach people through things, like, you know, what to do. They also me out with crashes and things like that. But they run, like, clinics as well, which is a great sort of, like, funnel for people that are, like, you know, race curious Yeah. And aren't necessarily, like, you know, fairly, like, you know, ready to just jump in a race, like and don't have, like, you know, like me, like, a roommate just yelling at you to go do it. So it's like, oh, what is this? Can I do it? Like, Will I like it? Yeah. I mean, there's, like, a direct correlation between, like, number of clinics you run and, like, number of, like, new, what do you call it? USAC. Like like, registration. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That and I think this is a really important topic because, we're here today to to talk about driveway and and your and your leadership and the way the thing grows is, is through, you know, new faces and people coming back to to race, you know, weekly and and yearly. Yes. Which yeah. We have a lot of rebuilding to do post pandemic. Can you give kind of the, state of the union for, you know, before, I'm sorry, before the pandemic I'm running and after. I'll I'll flash it. Yeah. I mean, it's a little reminder. I have, like, all the data. I like side, you know I mean, I guess we can talk about this too, but I have, like, a job in data I got you got a a a day job. I have a day job, which I like, you know, I mean, thank you to my manager who lets me, like, you know, do all this sort of stuff. But, yeah. Like, I love data, and I love figuring out, you know, where we're at. Like, what's the health of bike racing? And, like, yeah, 2015 was a peak. It kinda teetered down after that. But, like, was, like, pretty strong. We saw, obviously, 2020, there was, like, almost 0 events. Driveway started. We had a 5 lap race. I remember that I Remember that I got 2nd. And then after that, it was over. Like and then we started again in June, but nationally, like, no one was racing and really didn't start until, June of 2021 Mhmm. Which was really tough. And I think there was still about 30% decline in, like, race registrations, across the board. It is coming back, but nowhere near. I think like, a 3% growth in the, like, 4, 5, like, numbers. So, you know, it's you know, we're at a prime point to get a lot of, like, new People in, but, you know, we there are a lot of people who just moved on. Yeah. Or they, you know, they don't road race anymore. They do gravel because that was one thing that, you know, throwing a gravel race is one of the easier types of events to run. I'm not throwing shade of ground runners. I do it all. We can talk about that. But, yeah. Get that a separate note. But, yeah. People, like, decided to do that instead. Yeah. And I'm like, yo. Road is sick. How do we bring this back? And I love a challenge. So Yeah. Here we are. Okay. Alright. So so, yeah, I guess, what, what do you have planned for? What what why don't we take 1 step back? Yeah. You had a you had a good, sort of story about the the name driveway series. Can you Oh, yeah. This is like driveway lore. I'd have to actually, like, Call the owner and we the bill at Dahl Height, to confirm. But apparently, it was very difficult to build a, like, professional racetrack. Like, you can't just, like, do it anywhere. And, so I think they're like, instead of calling it, like, he's building a racetrack, he built a driveway in which there was a house At driveway, shop house loop. And so, you know, essentially, like, building a driveway to your house, but it's also, you know, using, Dang, pavement we imported from South Dakota. Not we at the time. Obviously, this is, like, 20 something years ago. But, yeah. That's the legend of how driveway came to the driveway. Loophole. Yeah. Exactly. Shout out to loopholes. You know, you gotta exploit them. When they're there, you know, especially when you set up a a racetrack. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's the only way. I mean, and, you know, like what it brought us. So I've I've got a a random personal question. Do do cars still race don't know. No. No. Okay. No cars. There's a there was no did that stop? Like That stops in 20, I think, 2020 One? Okay. Yeah. That's when because the property changed. Recently? Yeah. In, like, 2022. And yeah. Yeah. So we used to only be able to be out there on, like, Thursdays, and, like, it was a lot tighter schedule. We kinda have a little more freedom now, which you can get into plans for that. But, yeah, it was, like, until 2022, and then the lane was, like driveways for a while was always, like, up in the air. I remember, like, when I was, like, not involves any capacity to show up in race. It's like, oh, is it gonna be around next year? Because the land had been for sale for quite a while. Right. But driveway is also in a flood plain. It's It's like, you know, the lower half of the track, like, will flood, like, on a, you know, right not I won't say regularly, but, like, it will flood. Right. The Colorado is, like, right over there, then there's another Creek that borders the, northern side of it. So, then the access, road also floods. So it's like it's Like and it's also, like, riding your railroad track. So it's like there's not a lot of other options for what driveway can be. But there was a guy crazy enough to build a racetrack out there. Right. You know, it worked for a long yeah. Thankfully, he he did that. So, let's let's touch on how, the kind of organization and leadership of Driveway transitioned in into your hands. What what's the story with back Oh, man. I don't even know it happened until it did, to be honest. It just sort of, like, one of those things. Well, I'm just, like, saying yes. Like, I'm gonna say, okay. I'll do it. Yeah. I I can make this happen. And, yeah, it was, like, post it was 2022. Driveway had been sold to Oracle, and it was part of, like, the whole prop b initiative. And can you can you explain that in in, you know, a few sentences? Like It's I mean, I would say just read the document. I'm not a fur like, foremost authority on this, but, essentially, Oracle, you know, very big tech company, and it Has a campus on Riverside. And, there's, like, a hit there's another piece of land that's adjacent that they want, I think, for, like, They want it for development. Yeah. They want it for development. It's owned by the city, and there's, like, a city facility on there. It's like a pump station, something like that. And I think the way things work, and then don't quote me on this, but it's like the city has to, like, do a proposition in order for, like, that sort of Thing to change hands to, like, a private To a private. Yeah. Yeah. And so they're like, okay. We'll give you this chunk of Land, which there's a very big master plan for, like, driveway and that whole area where there's, like, the right next to 183, like the Bone Creek project, and it's kinda almost like the last piece. So it's like, okay. It's like we'll swap, you know, this for this And people vote on it, essentially. And that's, you know, kind of how that, like, deal is being worked out. So is is the idea basically that, Oracle has purchased the land that driveway sits on on behalf of the city. I think that's I that is the my understanding of it. Okay. And then it will be, like, swapped out for the that other piece of land. And to my knowledge, like, everything's going very smoothly with that. I do thank Oracle. They've been, like, the greatest landlords by letting us. It was like a very small clause in the deal the original owner, who owned driveway and Oracle to, like, in their best effort, let the races continue. Yeah. And they have made, like, every concession to, like, you know, help us with that. That's awesome. Which is super cool. Outside of alcohol, which I get, they're not an event company. They're not they're letting us do our bike races, which, like, you know, when you look at it from their perspective, a multibillion dollar fortune, like, 5 company or something like that is, like, letting us throw a bike race. It's like that's you know, I'm pretty happy with that. Yeah. And and we're we're talking about driveway because it's not only an important piece of, you know, a a cyclist sort of culture here, it's also a really important piece of of Austin. Oh, yeah. Like, driveway as a, a cultural, you know, weekly ongoing event, it it's it's unprecedented. It's not like anything else Longer than that. In in the country and and, you know, maybe there are rivals in Europe or whatever. But, like, it's really special. It's very unique. It's I mean, just like data wise, you know, I pulled we'll have, like, API, for road results. And just looking at, like, over the last number of years actually, I'll throw up a little, visualization here. Yeah. But driveway in terms of, like, it is an outlier in terms of, like, consistent registrations. I think we have, like, 44,000 over the last, like, 4,000 over the last, like, 10 years or something like that since 2000. 4000. Yeah. 10 years. And it's, like, far above everybody else. Yeah. So it's not Like, consistently one of the longest running, but also, like, we have the 3rd most unique participants out of any race in the entire country. Number 1 is, I I think Tour of America's Dairylands, which is, like, 11 or so days of racing, which which draws national level people. Right. And then it's Tulsa and then us. So we're number 3, which, like, in the nation, like, for a weekly event that, like, people don't from everywhere travel to have the most unique people is, Like, pretty sick. Awesome. And and and, hopefully, Oracle understands how how unique Oh. How important it is is to They do. Continue traditions like this in Austin. It's what makes Austin, Austin. Yeah. And, ultimately, I mean, that, you know, with, you know, with the property, like, having, like, need events like this, and also we've partnered with the Loop this year to do running events. Like, it shows that they're, like they've been doing, like, their part in sort of, like, keeping that alive. And, like, hopefully, when it turns into a city park, like, you know, these things, like, have been going on. They can continue, and, like, Austin doesn't lose something like that. Yeah. So they definitely understood, like, how it is to the community here, and, like, that's why we're able to, you know, still throw races out there. So Incredible. And Yeah. And I think I think my myself included when I saw the headlines over the last couple years of of this multifaceted real estate deal that Oracle was into with the city Yeah. You think, oh, shit. You know? Is is driveway gonna be a victim? And, yeah, I think this is very relevant to to your leadership coming in, carrying the torch. So are you are you, an owner of Driveway? Is Driveway, like, a nonprofit? Like, how is it structured It's moving forward? Yeah. So, like, moving I mean, like, right now, it's It's like I work with Holland Racing, which has done it for a while. It's just, I'm essentially, like, race directing. Got it. And, like, doing, like, Sponsorship stuff like getting, like, attracting sponsors and, like, you know, basically, like, staffing the people and stuff. But it's technically all run with Holland Racing, which has been doing it for 10 years now. Okay. And so, can you tell the listeners about Holland Racing? What what exactly? Yeah. So Holland Racing is run actually, I learned this a fun little bit. So Holland Racing, a lot don't know where that name comes from. But, Andrew Willis, who has been running the driveway Python more bike racing events than anybody else in the entire country. And his wife started it. And it's Holly Andrew Holland. Boom. There you go. Holland Racing, which I had never known, which I thought was super cool. And yeah. So that's like, they've been doing it for a long time and, like, you know, the equipment out there, like, I purchased from them from him, and it's still, like, you know, everything's run through racing. Got it. Technically. We'll get into kind of a a a fundraising campaign that we're that we're talking about for for next year. What do you need We'll introduce, like, their friends. Like, get other people started into racing their bike. And it's also, like, you know, people can sponsor other racers. They can sponsor races. I mean, there's, like, an advertising component, to driveway, which, like, when I was racing, didn't really understand like, just racing, didn't really understand it. But then I'm like, look. I'm like, thinking of all the business I've given to people that have sponsored driveway about my house Through a realtor there, I got basic from someone that sponsored the driveway. I'm trying to think of everything else. I got a roof from CCR Roofing, which sponsored the driveway. Yeah. It's like all of these companies that are, like, small businesses that are owned by bike racers, like, sponsor the driveway. And, like, I'm gonna go to somebody that not only Deports, like, what I love doing, but also has helped out, like, my friends. Like Yeah. Because it's like, oh, yeah. It's like we use, you know, that the, you know, this roof, like, etcetera. Like, I bought a house, and then I needed a new roof. I knew who to call. It was, like, easy rather than, like, sifting through Yelp reviews. I'm like, I don't wanna do this. Like, I'd rather community. Yeah. I trusted them to cut my eyes open with lasers. So it's like, you know, shout out to, you know, capital I. Right. Yeah. So it's like and, you know, it's there there's, like, that component to it. So, like, there if you, like, have a business and want to a race. Like, there's, you know, that element to it. It hits you on Instagram. Bang my line. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's you know? And driveway has, like, a good social media presence. There's obviously a lot of people that, like, attend and, like, go to the, you know, results page and stuff like that. So it's just like and it's, like, not expensive to, like, you know, market at the driveway. But, it can be pretty, you know? Alright. So so tell your friends. Bring your friends. Bring your friends. Teach them bike racing. Sponsor. Sponsor. And then we could get into the other fundraising stuff. Let's do it. Yeah. So we are doing my, I mean, I, like, lean on my friends so hard. Like, my friend, Eric Bones, or Eric Thompson designed a kit, and there's, like, a supporter jersey. Castelli, produces They've been, like, the longest running sponsor too for driveway. So I have a kit, that people can order, season passes too. That's like stable race registration is the biggest thing, that keeps an event like driveway going. So it's like, oh, I can, like, register for all of them at once. And there is, like, discounted, But it also, like, the startup costs of, like, a race, especially in the beginning of the year. I mean, I'm paying, like, 1,000 and 1,000 of dollars in, like, permits and equipment and like that. So that helps. And then also we're doing a T shirt. I partner with a BMXer who like, I love BMXers, especially when I can use them. And, like, my BMX friend's screen printing them, so we're gonna have those T shirts, which I think are gonna be sick. So Awesome. Yes. There's, like, multiple, like, levels. Like, even you don't live here, like, you can support the driveway if you like love bike racing, and you get like a kid. So Yeah. And and I think I think for the sake of being abundantly clear, you and I met before we did this taping. True. And you told me that you have, expenses in the tens of thousands. Hundreds of that. People don't realize, like, driveway, like, is, like, over $100 easy a year on. And we it's also variable. So so you're saying that's that's a nut you need to cover. Yeah. Totally. And we're talking about, you know, this really important Austin tradition and and keeping it going. So, Tali's setting up a drive for for this coming year. Yeah. There's gonna be sick merch. There's gonna be weighs if you're a racer, you can subscribe for for the whole season. And and I just wanna, again, be abundantly clear. Money coming in is really important, for the driveway. And it's it's obviously not something that is making cash, hand over fist every year. I have a normal Job? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's also I mean, like, this is my 1st year, like, really, I mean, like, it is like a business. Like, it has like, I pay employees. Like, there's there's a lot to it. And, Yeah. I mean, it there's a, yeah, a lot to cover. Folks have some expendable income when we, you know, promote the campaign. Yeah. Buy buy the T shirt, donate the extra T shirt. How much how much yeah. I mean, I'm like I'm also, like, OCD about, like, design and stuff like that. And I'm like, I'm gonna he's on, like, vintage blanks and, like, stuff like that. So it's like, you know, they'll be tight. They're they're yeah. The merch the merch is gonna be good. It's good. Oh, yeah. Love love a good and it, like, looks like, the aesthetic is, I don't know. I think everyone will, like, really like it. It's fun. I like love like, you know, it's like fun branding, all this stuff, because that's the whole other component is, like, all this stuff. Because that's the whole other component is, like, this is, like, a a side tangent, but, like, bike racing is so cool. Like, when I take my, like, Friends that, like, don't, like, race, they'll, like, watch it. Like, they'll come to a lot of BMXers, live in Colorado. I'll go out there and race Littleton. Then Oh, cool. And, like, all of them come out, and they're like, this is the craziest thing we've ever seen. You guys are, like, flying at 40 miles an hour around a corner, and, like, you're angled to, like, just, you know, Run into a tree. It's like, this is sick. And, and you agree. And by and by the way yeah. To go to go back a little bit, what we're talking about is is road racing, about promoting road racing. Yes. How do you feel about the state of it and and where it's going? Yes. I mean, I think it is on the up, and I'm trying to help it as much as I can. I can't you know? I it's a it's a torch that a lot People have to carry. But, yeah, I mean, like, you know, I have, like, some weird Instagram following that, like, I don't know how it, like, came about, but, like, I try and use that for, like, pushing, like, local bike races, like partnering with Pace Bend. Like, we rebranded, or, like, we did the posters and stuff for Last year and, like, just made it, like, look better because, like, when I see, like, road racing that's, like, being promoted on, like, a 8 by 11 piece of paper and it just, like, doesn't look cool. I'm like, no. It's like, there's not that much effort that takes to, like, brand something that looks cool and, like, hype it up. Like, there's that component that I think has been missing for a road racing, which, I mean, like, people that I look up to like, there's David Trimble who used to run Redhook, Did a great job of hyping Redhook. Like, he just, like, you have to build this, like, hype around your event. Otherwise, it's just like it goes nowhere. Well, well, elephant in the room here is you gotta make it look cool or else you're gonna be racing with a bunch of dentists. Yeah. We love dentists. We love dentists. I mean, hey. I mean, like, I got my teeth cleaned by dentists' your driveway. Shout out to doctor Greg. You know, he is awesome. But, yeah, it's like you wanna It's gotta it's gotta be relevant. Yeah. You want I mean, like, anything you do, you want to Looked cool. Like, it's just like at the end of the day, it's like, if you're doing something, like, I would road race regardless if something looked cool or not because I love it. It's, like, fun. I know how. Like, I've got this addicted to it, but, like, I think, like, branding stuff accordingly is something that, like, gravel racing and whatnot has done a better job Above because it is a newer it's a younger promoter. A lot of these promoters, like, they are retiring. There are, like, older. I'm not saying old people don't. I'm not, Like, ageist by any means. But, like, they could do a better job at attracting, like, what's the new I think the PC word is is relevance. Yeah. I mean, yeah, relevant. I'm the most I mean, I'm not the best piece of person. I I wasn't saying you weren't. I'm but yeah. My point is that, being relevant is is the it's the most important thing. And and maybe what maybe what we're talking about is hopefully, there'll there'll be a new wave, a new generation then the road race promoters because I don't I don't know. Well, I was gonna say, I I don't know that many There's I mean, James Grady is, like, a friends. He throws Mission Crit and also is helping out with, like, San Rafael. And, like, we'll partner with other events like, Euro San Francisco, To, like, you know, push that. Like, you know, they'll attract a sponsor too. Like, they'll pitch, like because if you make something look cool, sponsors wanna in. And that just grows the event. Yeah. There's no bad like, there's nothing bad that comes from, like, making it look cooler. All you're doing is attracting, like, more people to participate. Road racing is way more fun when there's way more people. Totally. It's just, like, across the board, like, I don't wanna race against 10 people. Like, I don't wanna travel to an event that didn't do a good job promoting Racing against 10 guys. Yeah. That sucks. Like, I've been there. It's not fun. But if I can race, like, against a 100 people and, like, the energy feels like Tulsa, yes. Give it to me. Like, it's tight. And, yeah, there's, like, a lot of value in, like, you know, building something that looks cool and then attracting brands that, like, oh, hey. Like, we have a lot more prize money now. Like, it's just it's what happens. And, yeah, you just, like, you know, put a little more effort. I love the optimism. And Gotcha. Austin Austin's a great place to be for it. And I I just I just hope some of the other areas of the country can also Oh, yeah. Also do it and and keep up. Totally. And and what I'm referring to specifically is, and and I've I've experienced it personally, but the whole, notion that that road racing is ebbing, you know, obviously, there's more interest in in, in gravel. Yeah. And that and and it's not, also, if you're a a race organizer or promoter, like you said, gravel's just easier. Yeah. So to get the city permits to get the insurance that is that's gotta be a nightmare. Oh, it's insane. Yeah. I mean, like, because as someone who is like, I will be, like, throwing a gravel race next year. Like, I won't say the date or a lot of details come. Still waiting on, like, I will do things properly, like, in terms of, like, insurance and stuff like that, you a lot of times don't need that. There are a lot of gravel races that are big that, like, don't have that. They don't have the same, like, level of expense all the time. Like, you know It's just hard it's just hard to throw a road race. Well, yeah. It's like, well, you need, like, a caravan and, like, medics and stuff Deck and, like, a gravel race, like, it is a little bit easier to promote just from, like, the an outside perspective. There's not, like, a governing body like USAC with, like, officials that you also have to, like, I've been a hotel if they have to travel. Like, there's not multiple waves of people. It's like, you can just go start a 100 people on a race. And, like, you have a couple of sag cars and a lead car, and then, like, your result is, like, you know, you use a simple timing system, and it's like yeah. And and you have some, like, bare minimum insurance, like, if that. And the other thing too is, like, you road racing, like, is is just smaller. Like, competition sports is like I mean, I'm not saying gravel isn't competitive, but you can get a broader base of people that are just, like, there to, like, finish, like, which is awesome. Like, you know, whether you're there A race, like, and try and win and get on the podium or if you're there because this is, like, motivating you to of a fondo culture. Yeah. More of a fondo culture. And it's, like, more of a, like, oh, I always wanna complete a 100 miles, like, that's awesome. But, like, doing it in a road race, it's, like, it's not as fun. Like, doing a 100 mile road race and you got, like, dropped and riding by yourself on, like, a road on, like, a, you know, farm to market road, like, it's not as fun. Is it like you're in, like, a beautiful, like, scenic area, and you're, like, weaving through trails and stuff like that, like, which gravel can give you. Yeah. And so but, you know, so they can attract 5,000 people to do a race. You're not getting you're getting A thousand at Tulsa across, like, the entire weekend. So it's, like, 400 people, like, a night like, a night. And so there's, like, The you have to rely more on, like, sponsor money and stuff like that to make it happen. And your expenses are higher. It's just, like, tough. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just, like, It's harder. But they, you know, they do a good job at, like, promoting. Yeah. They make it, like, look cool. And I'm like, well, road racing's cool. It's like, road racing's so hard too. With gravel getting, like, super competitive though now, it's like and, like, world tour riders are coming into it and, like, have been for a while, and there's, like, wreck and shop. Like, I'm wondering if, like, that it will switch. Like, people wanna, like, you know, road race again. We'll see. Or or or maybe the, interesting gravel feeds back into to road. Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's like onboarded into gravel and and come back to road. Yeah. They go back and forth. I mean, like, you know, roadies will go race gravel. I mean, like, Chris Lamparity It's like, who is the national championship? Like, champion 3 times over, went and race, like, gravel worlds Mhmm. And And stuff like that. So, like, there is a back and forth. And, you know, it's the same you know, at the end of the day, you're doing a 100 miles, like, really hard in a road race or you're doing a 100 Thirty in, like, a gravel race. Like, it's a little bit different with the team aspect, but, you know, with, like, road racing, there's obviously more of that component. But Yeah. It's coming gravel. I see it. We can start talking about, your new project. And so to to tell you the projects, we got the day job. Got a day job. We got driveway series. BMX. We got b BMX. And and the other thing is you're, you know, you're really active on social, which I think helps you promote and engage audiences around all these all these project hyped. Yeah. That's what I use it for. I mean, it's, like, I hate the Internet. Like, I hate, like I mean, like, brand identities and all this stuff. Like, I will frequently like, a lot of what I do on it's a bit like, it's just, like Yeah. I can't, like, really be serious, like, about but, you know, so So where so where does the, the online personality dude, I think it's made fun of influencers. Like, I think it's like, when I saw it, I was just like, god, this feels, like, unnatural. Like, I can't Be that way. Like and it's like I deactivate my Instagram for months at a time and, like, brands that, like, support me. Like, hey. Where'd you go? I'm like, yo. I'm on I'm like, I can't be talked to right now. But, yeah, it's like, inter the Internet's a bit, but it is like a you know, it sucks you in. I hate it. It's double a double edged Sure. That Explore page, man. It'll keep me up in there. But Down the rabbit hole? Yes. This is going down, but, like, I do use it for, like, Do you know a beneficial reason at the end of the day? It's like, yeah, like, support, like, brands that sponsor the driveway. They're also sponsoring me. Like, I'm putting that out there. Yeah. And, like, hyping up races and, like, making funny videos to, like, get people's, like, you know, attention on stuff. Yeah. So it's it's, it's ironic like, just the the your online kind of social media personality Has to be. The love hate relationship with social media. Yeah. And then you you you really kind of need it to do the the promoting that you wanna do. So it's it's a it's a vicious cycle. Right? Vicious cycle. I use it. I'm trying to be better about it. It's, like, definitely, like, I'm like, I don't wanna look at my phone right now, and, like, be more connected in the real world. But, you know, I do use it for that, like, sort of stuff. Yeah. So so next project Yes. Matadors. Matador. Yes. So that's like you know, we have, like, great group rides and stuff like that in Austin. And I'm, like, always been one that's, like, doesn't do a lot of group riding. But there's, like, Breakfast Club, which is, like, you know, huge. And they have, like, you know, some pretty fast paced rides. But, like, for me, it's I'm interested in developing, like, bike racers. And or people that, like, want to like, what's harder? Like, what's after doing 40 miles, like you know? But it's, like, with a big group, and, like, people, like you know, they'll, like, go hard up a couple hills and stuff like that, but, like, what's hard all the time? Like, what what's next? Basically a drop a drop ride. Drop ride. Yeah. And, like, I can use, like, you know, my sort of, like, Internet, Personas are, like, rile people up. And, like, when you get like, our team has, like is, like, pretty stacked. It's like, you know, Michael Sheehan used to race, like, you know, Conti, If for Jelly Belly, Eli, Houston, you know, it's like Hammers. Like, he raced for Elevate, and then there's Evan who raced, NCO, like, there's, like you know, we're like the fast people. And so we're like, okay. Let's let's create a ride and then, like, a team. And It's kind of like driveway supported. Like, you know, I attract, like, sponsors that you know, to the driveway that also sponsor the team. So, like, Progress Coffee is, like, our, like, Title sponsor. And is progress off 35? Is that So it's actually this is a little drop. They'll be opening, I think, when this podcast Comes out in about less than a month, but they're opening a new location right by holiday on 7th. Okay. So right when you get off the bike path, like, on Shady Lane from the driveway, Which will now be the new driveway after party spot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we're, like, partnering with, like, Fat Tire to do, like, free beer and stuff like that and a lot of, like, food trucks. And it's, like, Before you get to anything. So because, you know, we still can't have alcohol out of the driveway, which, like, in the past was, like, a huge part of, Like, fostering community? It's like, oh, yeah. You race really hard. Like, you have a beer. Like, you go ride home. You go grab food or something like that. And so since I It's that was, like, a huge struggle last year. It's like, I couldn't create that, and I, like, beat myself up over it. Yeah. Because, like, you know, as You know, especially dealing with the hottest summer in the history of Texas, it's like and I'm like, oh, man. Why don't people, like, hang out? Or, like, you know, stick it. It's like, yo, it's a 6 degrees, I can't drink, like, beer. Like, I just wanna get out of this heat. Yeah. And so I'm like, okay. How do we fix said, like, oh, well, let me partner with somebody that can like, is close to the driveway, that, like, people can, like, go and hang out at. They're gonna Show bike racing, which is awesome. Yeah. So that that'll be, like, super fun. And try and, like, yeah, try and, like, you know, use That is, like, the hub for racing. And, like, we're also gonna host our, like, drop ride out of it as well, sort of, like, move from the 35 location down there. So that'll come February. Awesome. Which would be super cool. Yeah. I mean, also, like, a capital Chevy back. I've been, like, confirming sponsors. Trek, huge supporter of, like, the team Yeah. Are all gonna be, like, rocking. But they're also, like, supporting driveway. They're, you know, The announcer actually works for Trek, and they're doing, like, mechanical support and stuff like that and, like, prizes. Like, that's the other thing. They helped me out so much last year. I was like, yes. I want you guys back. Driveway gave out over is, 1,057 prizes. Like Alright. Which it's gift cards. It's like nutrition. It's whatever. But, like, the scale of driveway, I don't think people stand. It's not like, oh, it's like a one time thing. Like, let's get some prizes. It's like week after week after week. You need to go to do this. Yeah. And I can't, like, I could not do it, but, like, I can't I can't like, it's just not in me to not give it, like, everything I can. So, yeah, like, I try, like, you know, in every way possible to, like, do something for the community. Get back to preemes because not everyone's winning. But, like, you can go race for a preem and, like, you know, get a, you know, Win your entry back. Yeah. Win your entry back. Like, there's tally bucks too. It's like you need a free entry. Also, like, supported my friend's coffee company, Roly Poly, last year. And, like, I would buy coffee from him and then, like, do coffee preamps. And so it's, like, you know, it's all it was super fun. Awesome. Yeah. So That's Matador. Yeah. Matador and, are are you guys do you have a a race schedule lined up or, like, what Oh, it's tough because, like, not everything sort of informal right now. Informal. We'll do all the Texas classics, Twitch, like, I've been doing, like, some work with that. There were, like, Lago Vista classic, road race in Austin an area we got that to be the junior selection event Okay. Which means, like, if you're you do well at this event, like, you can go to Europe. So we expect, like, a Huge junior pop yeah. It's, like, 2 days. I'm doing a prologue for juniors only out the driveway, but Matador will be racing that. There is Random questions. So how do you, how do you link up with with juniors racing? Like, is there a local okay. They approached me. Yeah. So we actually host The USAC event at the Meteor. So it's, like, the director of, like, Road with Tanner Putt who used to race for, like, UHC. And then there's, like, so many hitters here. Hugo Scala, who races, like, for their, like, pretty much, like, national team team and project Echelon. He was there. There's, like, a bunch of, like, you know, like, pretty established athletes that came to town. And then I, like, just dropped like, I was like, yo, we got, like, sick road races here. Like, I would love, like, for them To get more national hype. Like and so putting on that, like, national calendar, like, that goes out to all the juniors. And, like, For instance, like strikes me as a coup. That's that's a huge step. Yeah. It's a huge step. Yeah. And, like, I don't really like I don't like I'm not the race director for Lago, I just, like, wanna see the scene, like Yeah. Get, like, that get that race the shine it deserves. There's gonna be a new promoter for it, Violet Crown. So it's like, you know, it it should be sick. But, yeah, like, having a 120 juniors come and compete. And then there's pace band the following weekend, which I'm doing a crit for to make it part of the Masters Cup, which draws, like, you know, 200 something or, like, not 2. I wanna say 200 our field cap is a 120. Like, a 120 something masters racers. Mhmm. And so it up levels the competition, like, here, which is something I was always searching for, like, when I, like, was starting out, like, I would win, but, like, I wanted, like, harder races. I always wanted more. And like, I can bring that to the people here and, like, you have, like, an epic road race that's, like, hard. It's not like the same people winning or, like, one Team dominating. There's, like, this it's hype. Like, there's, like, oh, shit. Like, this team's coming to town. Like, this is gonna be brutal. Like, you know, Legion's coming Or they you know, it they like, 80 or so. Yeah. It levels up everybody. It's like, what is it? Rising rising tide lifts all ships sort of thing. So it's like trying to do that. So that's gonna be of our race schedule. And then there'll be I think there's, like, Cedar Hill. Like, a lot of, like, Texas racing. I'm gonna we're gonna do nationals or some of us are, which is in a new location. It's in, like, West Virginia, which is, like, close to Ohio, which is, you know, be easy Yeah. Bop down there. And then, obviously, like, Tulsa, I wanna do, tour of Dairylands. I've never got to do it because it always conflicted with nationals or I, like, got blown out. And then I'm gonna do a fixie crit over in Europe, Zurich Crit, which is produced by Dave Trimble who did Redhook. Okay. And I'm gonna go try and, like, see the Olympics, it should be fun to not race. I wish you can't qualify for that. But yeah. So, like, that's our, like you know, we're just kinda doing fast group rides and stuff like that, and, Like, you know, we're filling a void too. Elbows racing, is no longer in existence, which was like a hammer team that I used to have to go up against and then eventually became, like, a Part of. And so, yeah, it's like someone's gotta carry the torch. Like, you know, just, like, do something. Awesome. Yeah. So yeah. And and, the race I'm sorry. The group rides are every other week. Is that It's every week right now. Yeah. Yeah. Our schedule is, like, we have a Strava Club and stuff like that, and Instagram and whatnot. Strava clubs have been, like, pretty great for, like, oh, here's a ride. And, like, you know, we'll get, like, 60 something people, something like that. Yeah. So that's like that project. Okay. Alright. Great. And then, we've got Red Rocks Roubaix coming out. Red Rock Roubaix. I mean, as I as I was saying, doing too many things at once. I was on the phone with, I think, I'll know tomorrow. But when this podcast comes out, it'll be signed and done. But, we're gonna do it'll be a 101 miles is the the route that I have. Which is a little shorter than Little shorter, but, like, more gravel. So there's, like, which, like, was hard. And I was trying to figure out, okay. How do I get people to, like because all the gravel stuff has been getting paved south of Austin. Week after week, it's like, oh, there's a new, like, section that got paved. And there's this beautiful road, Old Sayers, which I don't think is gonna get paved anytime soon. And so I'll actually go out that, and there's this it's it gets really difficult After Bastrop to do a loop because there's a huge national guard, like, what do you call it? Like, camp that you can't ride through. Mhmm. And so it's like, on the other board, it's like, there's nothing. But there's a lake, Lake Bastrop. There's, like, a trail that runs through it. There's this beautiful road that dead ends into this lake. And then there's a gravel trail that goes through it, and, like, it's sick riding. It's, like, turny. There's, like, a low water crossing, like, it sort of adds, like, a a narrow it'll be super narrow too, which will be super fun. And you pop out on the other side of the lake, which then you can go through Camp Zwift and then pop back on Old Sayers, and sort of like double back. So It should be, like a super fun day. Trek's gonna do, like, neutral support. Great. I I mean, yeah, I well, I'm gonna try and make it free if I can get the sponsor. Hopefully, it won't be because I got paid for everyone's entry into, like it's a state or it's not a state park, but, like, I gotta basically, I'm working at a deal where I can just, like, pay for everybody to not have have to stop. They can just go race through the Right. Race through the park and then not have to stop and pay and stuff like that because I just, like, you know, I just wanna do fun stuff. That that sounds awesome. Yeah. I did it last year, and I had a total blast. Super fun. It was a a big day. Yeah. This day, it sounds like, will be a little shorter. Yeah. But more climy. So it'll be hard. Yeah. You you get the difficulty Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And, and how many how many people showed up last year? Well, over a 100 something. Yeah. Yeah. It was, like, pretty big. And then, I mean, like, you know, by time it's done, like, people are like, oh, I just wanna ride home. Yeah. And, like, it's like, I get it. But, yeah, like, who finishes? But I should have some, like, prizes and stuff like that, from, like, you know, my sponsors, I'm always trying to use, like you know, I don't care about, like, getting stuff from sponsors. Like, I was like, how can you guys support the community that I have here? Yeah. And, Like, Matt last year did, like, $500 for, like, men, women, like, 2, like, 500, 200, 100, which was, like, tight. And I'm, like, yeah. Let's do that again. We talked about all these projects. Yes. Where where do you find the, the the inspro, the the time Oh, man. I just I don't know where it comes from. I've always been, like, I don't wanna say ADHD, but, like, I mean, definitely always had a lot plate spinning? Yeah. I've always just, like, been going and, like, I just say, yeah. I have a lot of energy, and, like, I feel like I can always do more. Like, I always wanna do more. I always, like, wanna see, like, how far can I take this, and just, like, you know, kinda see what happens? And I was, like, driveway. I mean, it started out of, like, me Throwing fake races, like, down south, like, calling off, like, a flooded neighborhood. And then, like, you know, people, like, showing up as, oh, this is kind of fun. And then it's just like, yeah. Gotta keep going. But I can't, like, lose. And you and you took on responsibility with driveway after that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, like, that's essentially, like, how all that happened. Yeah. So, like, I approached him because I was working really hard to bring driveway back simultaneously. I was like, how do we do this? And we ended up bringing it back for, like, 9 weeks at the end of the season in 2022. Because I approached I was just like, how do we do this? Like, I'm gonna do it. Like and we figured it out. We got it done. We got, like, we got it back. And, like, without, like, Me probably doing that fake race down there, like, every every Wednesday. Yeah. I don't think it would have come back. Yeah. Because I would have not been exposed to, like, throwing events or, like, races. I think I only threw, like, Red Rock Roubaix, you know, during the pandemic. Or it was, like, 2021. I was like, we're doing this. And people weren't too happy about that, but, hey. You know, it happens. So, so, last year was the like, well, it's been going on. BTC cycling, used to do it. Okay. And then they, like, weren't gonna do it in 2021. And so I just did it. Kinda stepped on some toes. But, like, I was like, this is fun. And, like, you know, I know there's a group of people that wanna do it. And then yeah. So I kind of, like, got it. Like, Strong armed it. Yeah. I didn't I didn't realize that the fake race was your entree into kind of taking on responsibility. Yeah. It was it was kind of like a Strange little, like, little situation. But, yeah, I mean, like, I'm always, like, you know, wanting to do more. I've, like, raced for so long too. It's like it's like, what's the trajectory? Is it Is it like do I keep doing this and, like, be a really strong masters racer, or can I, like, also keep doing this and then also throw bike races and then And also still ride BMX and throw BMX events and stuff like that? Yeah. It's just like, yes. You know? Gotta do it every So so what are you what are your, aspirations, hopes for driveway in moving into the future, you know, the the legacy, what what do you what do you and and we talked a little bit about this before the Yeah. The taping, the community. Like Yeah. That that's one of the main reasons you're doing all this. That's, I think, the reason I'm doing it. Like, it's I just see it's weird, but, like, I know like, the city is gonna turn it into a park, and, like, they want The race is to continue from every all the communication I've heard. I just wanna make sure, like, I want that to be, like, the craziest bike place you've ever been to. Like, I also like The one thing I want, like, directly for myself is a skate park named after me. It's like, call it Tollywood, and, like, I wanna skate park in driveway. Like, I just I need it to happen. I'll pay for it. I don't care. Skate park that that I was a BMX That was BMX. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, we have to have that. Like, it's it's a BMX city. But, like, there's it's 40 acres Out there, there's like it butts up to the Colorado River. Like, you can go jump off, like you can swing off of a tree into the Colorado if you wanna swim in it. Like, it's right there. You could do I wanna do a mountain bike Track around it, and it's, like, you know, 1.6 mile, like, loop essentially, around the perimeter. And there's, like, elevation hinges. There's, like, mud sections, beautiful cottonwood trees and stuff like that back there. So it'd make for, like, a perfect hub for that. Cyclocross, I want to do, like, I'd pass this on to somebody who, like, races more cyclocross, but it'd help with the promotion aspect of it. But, like, a weekly cyclocross event like they do in San Antonio, like, Friday afternoons or something like that. Yeah. Duh. It's like duh. Yeah. But there's, like, a tunnel that goes under speed loop that not, like, not a lot of people that's Gary, go through. But you could send a cyclocross race up through that and then, like, onto the top of speed loop and then down through those woods. Like, it would be so cool. Yeah. And it's like getting locations to do stuff like that is hard. And so if I can have any sort of, like, influence into what this becomes, whether it's, like, from a fundraising perspective of, like, raising money to build this, because that's what you gotta do. Like, if you go to the city with a plan and money, it's like, hey. Hey. Like, you know, hopefully this happens. Yeah. And, yeah, like, I would love for a set of, like, trails to be out there, They're like you know, they're like they're forever. Like, there's no threat of them, like, being demolished, which, like, you know, happens. Because you look at places that do stuff like this really well, which, like, Colorado. Like, the most skate parks per capita, they have this incredible bike park called Bal which, is like the BMXers maintain it. They're, like, paid to, which is, like, a great model. And then we have a guy in Austin that does that, Will Blunt. He, like, builds some of the best trails in the entire country. And I'm like, yo. He's like, you could do that out here and do mountain bike tracks. Like, it would just, like, I don't wanna see it be turned into something that, like, isn't a 100% bike focus. Like, if I can have the ability, I would love to see a Velodrome out there. Yeah. Brad Houston, that's his, like, lifelong goals of Velodrome. Okay. I did not know that. Oh, yeah. And, like, I mean, he couldn't do it. Like, if he could he would be the one to put a Velodrome in Austin, which would make it, like, a like, you know, like, you could train for the Olympics here. Like, it'd be nuts. Yeah. I just don't wanna see, like, a bunch of pickleball courts or something. You know? Like or like an ACL, like, overflow venue. Like, I don't wanna see we do so much for, like, bringing people into the city, which is important. It's like, you know, bars and tourism and stuff like that. But, like, you need something for, like, the community of people that have, like, lived here. And, like, Austin has been a cycling hub for so long. Like, I mean, Hill Abel who used to run, bicycle sports shop, like, pretty much brought mountain biking to Central Texas. And, like, there's tons of that here. Obviously, you got the Lance Armstrong effect, like, stuff like that, there's, you know, there's so much bike related here. Yeah. But with all the construction, these new developments, like, our spaces are being taken away. Like, I was just, like, riding in Creed once, like, development after development. The roads are falling apart. You know? There's, like, not a lot of, like, bike focused stuff getting built. And there's only, like Austin's huge, and we have, like, 3 skate parks. Like, we need more. Like, there's more bikes because I've been so good for, like, my entire life. Yeah. It's like a lifelong thing whether you're racing, riding BMX. Like, you could do it forever. And, like, it it's just, like, there's no downside. Like, keeps you healthy. It's, like, fun. It's, like and especially, like, for kids. Like, I mean, the amount of times I had to, like, get up and try again, like, a trick after like, over and over, all I did was just told me to keep trying. Yeah. I spent 4 hours trying to trick when I'm, fifteen. And it's just like, you know, you it builds, like, character to a degree. So it's like it'd be cool to have, like, a space that's just, like, totally dedicated to that. Yeah. So that's what I want. Whether it happens, like, at the driveway or at Bona Park, which is, like, adjacent to it, be happy. But if I can have any sort of, like, influence for that, it's like, you know, that's new. I think that's a great answer. Yeah. So you're you're in it for the, for the long haul. For the long haul and a skate park with my name on it. That's all fell on. Hollywood. That'd be so high. I'll pay $1,000,000 for that. That's my legacy. It's skatepark, you know, for the for the OG BMXer crew. In the show, I like to try to draw some parallels between bike riding and and usually business. But for for you, we can, you know, extrapolate that into into life and your efforts promoting, you know, bike racing, in the city, do do you have anything that comes to mind as far as the the parallels between bike racing and some of the the difficulty, the the struggles you come up against in, you know, in in your exploits here trying to trying to promote bike racing. Yes. I mean, it is honestly, like, bike racing has taught me, like, a lot about, like, just well, it's, like, discipline and, like, determination. I mean, the number of times I've, like, failed at, like, a race or something like that or, like, didn't plants, like yeah. I mean, honestly, like, just like didn't come correct. Didn't do the Didn't. Yeah. Didn't come correct. Like, Didn't like like nutrition properly, like, whatever. It's at the end of the day, it's just like, was I, like, preparing myself, like, enough? Was I thinking About, like, every possible thing that could go wrong, like or was I just, like, sort of, like, capriciously, like, hey. We are winging it. And, yeah, I mean, like, This year with, like, running driveway, like, I made so many, like, mistakes. But, like, I feel like if I didn't have, like, a road racing background and, like, determination, Like, when things went wrong, like, I kept going. Like, I wanted to quit so many times. I don't think people know, like, how I spent, like, I was trying to throw another race wrong turn. Mhmm. I worked so hard for, like, months and, like, got to, like, the finish line. And then I show up and, like, the city of or, like, a contractor that was repairing the, At the road, like, didn't have a permit, but, like, excavated a water main. And I had, like, worked so long, spent you know, it was, like, $4 in the hole already on event that, like, didn't happen. And I was That's brutal. It was brutal. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I, like, can't like, what what am I gonna do? But I wanted to Quit so bad. I wanted to, like, pass driveway off to somebody else and just, like, walk away and hide. Yeah. And then it's just like but I kept going. And it's like so every time I, like, failed in road racing, got to the very And in, like, something messed up. Like, you know, I want you want to quit, and then you just kinda gotta go that extra step. Yeah. And, like, it was worth it because, like, yeah, it's like that race come back next year. Wrong turn. But, like, it's you know? What am I trying to say here? I'm always just, like, losing track. No. I I think that's a good threat. It's it that came up, recently with with Doug Zell. Yeah. It's it's the time in the race when you you just feel like you can't push anymore, Burn, you you gotta find find a little inspiration to keep going. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's just me and Lago cramping. I was just like, just keep going. And, like, it you feel like You're gonna die, like, at a certain point. And that driveway felt like that. I felt like I was gonna go insane, like, with also doing wrong turn and, like, just how hot Oh, it was. But I was just like, keep going. Yeah. Because, like, yeah, it's just at the end of the day, you know, it's gonna work out. Yeah. It's just like I don't know. It's just it it was tough, but, like, you know, I learned a lot. It was awesome. I'm gonna do it again next year. So Yeah. You know? Fingers crossed. Alright. Well, I appreciate it. I love going to to driveway and just hanging out and being being part of the community. Oh, yeah. I will join you on the Matador ride and and get, get dropped. And, yeah, I just wanted to to thank you, you know, sincerely, authentically, for for helping make bike racing just a a really Great again. Great make make bike racing great again. Thank you. Thank you so much. Had to do it. But but, yeah, greatly appreciated. Thanks for spending time, here on the show. And, we'll we'll do, you know, what we can to to promote driveway and and do some fun racing for Takes a village, man. 2024. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for coming on the show. Hell, yeah. Alright, man. Sick. If you like video interviews, head over to our YouTube channel where you can find this interview and others recorded live. Thank you.