Cancer, Addiction and a Missing Fibula Couldn't Keep Author Mike Thompson from #FindingGood (or Triathalon)

Mikey Thompson is hard to miss in Austin’s endurance community because he’s everywhere at once as a core member of the Breakfast Club cycling group and longtime High Five events associate, which organizes Austin’s major endurance events. You’ll immediately notice Mikey’s bubbly personality and the sparkle in his eye, which is partially due to his battle with pediatric cancer and then with addiction to his “pain management” regimen. In short, Mikey is happy to be here because so many of his fellow cancer patients have fallen, and guess what, he wants you to maximize the good in your life too. Mikey’s story is one of a young man finding his career calling, which took him to a masters program in communication theory and has culminated in the imminent publication of his memoir and ethos, "Finding Good." His MO is based firmly in three tenets of self love, good company and a motivation to leave the world better than how you found it. Mikey crafted this ideology after a remarkable career that started in the Costco checkout aisle, moved to fundraising for LIVESTRONG and other cancer related foundations, and recently landed at senate hearings to make a case for legalizing medicinal use of cannabis. And let's not forget, Mikey is an accomplished triathlete who competes without his left fibula, which was used to reconstruct his mandible after chemo caused a tumor on his jaw. There's a lot in here and plenty more in his new book! Please enjoy.

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Transcript

0:10

We got we got a lot to discuss. Finally. We're doing it. Mike Thompson, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's a pleasure. Absolutely a pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm fresh off reading, Mike's book, Finding Good, Holding It Up Here. And I I was I've known Mike, known you for 3 years, more than 3 years now. And Mike has always stood out in in his community, you know, specifically Breakfast Club. But as I learned from the book, really, your sort of influence and and, the Austin DNA is really deep. And I just learned so much about your life and and what drives you, and obviously the the challenges, the trials and and tribulations that you've been through. So, yeah, it's it's an honor to have an intimate, vulnerable conversation with you. It's, it's something that really means a lot to me, so thank you. Same here. We've touched on it, you know, very little tidbits of it when we've seen each other at breakfast club events or in the driveway. Drips and drabs over 3 and a half years. And just I I think it's a long time coming, and it's finally nice to be able to have that candid conversation because I think you and I have similar, ideologies and and outlooks on life. Obviously, it's been fun watching you as you're about to become a dad and get excited about that. That's my favorite. I'm, like, thrilled. I cannot wait to meet baby Huntington. But, yeah, it's it's nice whenever you find someone in the wild that kinda mirrors your worldview and your positionality and then to to get into it with that person is oftentimes what I believe today will be will be a very rewarding, cathartic experience for both of us. Me meaningful. And and, knowing you and reading the book, I just knew it would be. So I'm I'm really excited. Thank you, ma'am. So as we discussed, we're not gonna go, you know, through the book sort of, page by page. Readers will have to buy it and, and see for themselves. But I thought an interesting place to start could be, maybe summarizing where you are at as as a pediatric you know, cancer patient. But I I I kinda wanted to emphasize some of the athletic feats that that you've had, just to just to draw our listeners in? Sports was what I wanted to do growing up. So from age 4 when I started playing baseball and soccer until age 10 when I was diagnosed, I was I felt like I was on the track to play at an elite level. Mhmm. So I was always, you know, perennial all star. In soccer, I was either when I was a younger kid, I was a goalie and didn't let anything get by me, or next year, I was midfield, and I was the lead scorer always. Yeah. And I loved it. So when I was diagnosed at 10, like, that changed for me. Because I know we'll get into the cancer stuff in a little bit, and, obviously, you can read the book. You know? Please buy the book. But, you know, I talk about after cancer, it's like, well, sports is my life, but I'm much smaller in stature than I should be, and I definitely don't have the strength and stamina that I was tracking having precancer. So what can I do? I'm I'm an athlete. I'm a competitor. I love to to be fit and active. And And and just to give, listeners a little bit more context, I mean, Mike's a 4 time cancer survivor, and the the 4th time you you beat it at at what age? 14. At 14? Okay. From, basically, from October of 95, I was 10 years old until March of 2000 when I was 14. I I wasn't at home more than a few months at a time. Right. And it was 4 cancers and then 3 3 times leukemia, and then I had 2 bone marrow transplants, and then the tumor hit. And that was the ultimate thing for me where they're like, you're probably never gonna play sports again. Yeah. They And and they said that at at, and so I'm sorry. One of the things I wanted to highlight, because it's incredible, it is the the jaw surgery. Yep. Can you can you just outline for folks what what exactly what what went down? So it's it's what I call the kind of make or break cancer. Had I not lived through that one or rather, let's just say I didn't wanna live through that one, if it weren't for my mom. And, again, you'll read it in the book. There's a really powerful story in there how the students that I went to school with and a lot of the kids that I knew growing up were instrumental in my recovery and that they wanted me to keep fighting and stay alive. So both physically, spiritually, mentally, like, whatever way you wanna call it, they motivated me to kinda stay in. So, March of 2000 March 16, 2000, I underwent a 12 and a half hour facial reconstruction where they literally pulled from about, you know, right here to left side of my chin to just up behind my right ear, the whole lower mandible. So the whole lower jaw. More than half Yeah. Of my lower jaw, Used the fibula from my left leg to reconstruct that piece of tissue or that that area, that mandible, that bone. Used a section of tissue from my left leg that now serves as my new gum, so I actually grow hair in my mouth. Right. No. Sorry to all the listeners there. Incredible detail. Yeah. Yeah. I had to disclose that in the book. If you are, weak in the stomach, I apologize. But, hey. It's part of my life now. So It's life. It's real life. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, they were saying that you they could use a rib. They could use hip bone, but, ultimately, we decided to go with the fibula because it was the furthest away from my core organs and would pose the least amount of risk if infection happened and or just something some other complications in place. That's actually an interesting insight. I I don't know if you went into that in the book, but it's almost like it was it was isolating, another potential issue from as far as where the current one was. Point, I had every complication you can think of. Right. Like, if there was a chance for infection, I got it. Right. If there was a chance for some side effects, rejecting the marrow during transplant, getting shingles, not being able to get my temperature down, like, every bad thing that could have happened happened to us. So naturally, I'm thinking, alright. Let's minimize risk as much as we can. But when the doctor said that, okay. You know, you're gonna be left with a tibia, which supports 5, 6 of your weight, both your tibias support that. So I would be able to walk, but, like, being able to run and play soccer, you know, like, people kicking my leg. Like, my tibia could snap in 2 if it's hit the wrong way. Snowboarding, you know, things where my my ankle is trapped in bindings. The joints are gonna be weaker at the knee and at the ankle. So for me, that's basically a death sentence for for competitive sports. For a for a teenage boy who lives sports, like, I 14 years old could not imagine. It's your life. I could not imagine. Every year that I had cancer, I was thinking, like, when can I just get back to spring training? When can I get back to soccer camp? Whatever. And and I grew up in Austin going to University of Texas. It was called Gus Camp, named after coach Cliff Gustafson, famed coach, manager of the UT Longhorn baseball team. And that again, that was my life. And I'll never forget the moment when, you know, I learned what we were doing to reconstruct my jaw Yeah. And I was just devastated because it didn't matter what, you know, whether or not I lived. I knew on the other side of my life, I'd have to figure out what the hell I wanted to do with it Yeah. Because sports were were gone. Yeah. And again, it was just, like, knowing that life was possible. We don't know what's gonna happen. We don't know if my strength will ever return to the level it was before, but I at least wanna live to find out. Yeah. And, again, it was my my whole family, but really my mom who was there and, like, I didn't go through 24 hours of labor with you just to have you give up Yeah. Your at your 4th cancer, and she understands the undertaking of you know, at that point, I had, like, 50 something surgeries. Some of them were to remove the fungal infection that I had in my nose or my first Right. Induction round of cancer. Other procedures were, you know, minimal, but they still had to put me asleep for them, but, like, 50 times in the operating room, like, I was just done with it. And, I remember at one point, like, a week or so after the main reconstruction, you know, took 12 and a half hours, about 10 hours for them to remove the whole jaw, with along with the tumor that had developed, which was, by the way, caused by radiation from my first bone marrow transplant, and then 2 and a half hours or so to just, like, finish, like, all the the reconstructive, portions of it. So 12 and a half hours, a week later, they need to go in and clear out an infection that had set in and remove some more teeth so that they wouldn't get into the bone and I wouldn't lose the graft. That was the most important thing at that point. And simultaneously, they were going to take a feeding tube that I had in my nose, went up to my nose, down into my stomach, and then that's how they kept me, you know, fueled, fed, and hydrated. And I had IV fluids too, but they really wanted me to maintain digestion. They couldn't put me to sleep for the secondary procedure all the way because they were worried that with my jaw wired shot and only a small breathing tube here, if they put me under full anesthesia, there were more complications than they wanted to deal with. Mhmm. And the procedure would hopefully be relatively quick. So they sedate me. I wake up before the procedure is gone. So I'm on the operating table. I'm laying face down. I'm groggy about, you know, cloth wet cloth covering my eyes so my eyelids wouldn't dry out because of all the tears, and, I'm shackled to the to the operating table because they don't want me waking up and moving and interfering with the procedure. And I realized they weren't done with the surgery. They still had to insert the feeding tube into my stomach and remove the one that was in my nose. So I wake up because I felt the air that was going into my stomach inflate my stomach cavity so that they could easier, more easily puncture my stomach to put the feeding tube directly into my stomach. And I just did everything I could to let them know I was awake. And I was just, like, shaking, convulsing, like, please stop. Please stop. This hurts. And I overheard the nurse say something to the effect of, like, he's awake. He's awake. Right. And your and your jaw was wired shut. And my jaw was wired shut, so I couldn't talk. I could just go, like, you know? And so whatever sound I could get out through the trach in my throat and through my wired shut jaw, they heard it, but they had to continue with the procedure. Because if they if my stomach deflated or if I you know, something happened where I threw up into my mouth, I can cause even more of a risk for infection. So they sedate me. They finish the procedure, and, like, 3 days later is when I finally come to, like, after they had sedated me for that long, and there was a little whiteboard, like, no bigger than the size of this book. And on the bottom, you know, it was like, how are you feeling today, and, you know, what meds are you taking? What do you want? This, that, and the other. And at the bottom, it had those little smiley faces where they go from smiling to, like, angry and sad. Yeah. And I just, you know, drew a line through them, and I said, just let it kill me. I wrote that down to my mom. And so, of course, in a meeting That's how you felt. That's how I I was at that point, I'm thinking, like, I'm a 14 year old kid. I've tried to live a good life. I grew up, you know, as a in church, as a Christian. Didn't at up to that point hadn't done anything wrong because at age 10, I was in the hospital, so I couldn't even get into, like, any kind of real trouble. Yeah. But I didn't know what I did to deserve it. The the it's like torture. Yeah. And so finally, my mom, she's like, I wanted to wait until you felt better, but she pulled out this, you know, big bucket of letters. She put it on the base of my bed, and it was over 700 handwritten letters from kids at my school that were saying, like, we miss you. We hope you come back for yourself. That's a lot of letters. For 7 for hyphenics. 100. Granted, like, this is the year 2000 before, you know, smartphones and tablets Yeah. Ran our world, but just a ton of letters, outpouring of support. And so I was still uncomfortable because of the procedure, but I thought, man. Okay. Like, I can't give up my mom. I can't give up on all these people that are rooting for me. I guess I'll just stick with it. You know? And so, stayed on top of meds, you know, did what I could to heal. But that surgery for me was a death sentence for sports. And I remember doctors saying, like, probably gonna take you a year and a half to 2 years to learn how to walk again. You're gonna have to rebuild all that atrophied muscle on your left leg. You're gonna have pain in your lower leg from the missing fibula, and you're probably not gonna fall under the leg. I did not realize it it was more or less the full fibula. The entire from basically, you know, top to bottom on that joint of the ankle. So Yeah. No bone in there now. Incredible. Yeah. So and and, again, like, that's why everything meant so much to me of being able to ride my bike again a 100 miles in in Lake Tahoe, which, you know, you'll read in the book is my first, like, come back to life So experience. So a lot happens in your life before that point. Yep. And, you know, dependence on on your pain meds, opioids is, you know, obviously a fundamental theme in the book. And I I was really wondering, you you were told basically that you weren't gonna be able to play the sports that you loved. And then sure enough, I mean, you you beat the cancers, but you succumb to the pain meds that were prescribed to you. You know, in a lot of ways, what wasn't abuse, I mean, you you they were they were your pain meds, prescribed for medical management. Yeah. That's what it was called. So, you know, eventually and and I wanted to ask you about that experience, but, you you arrive, working at a local gym and a spin instructor, encourages you to join join a class. And, you know, at that point, literally, you had been, you know, addicted to pain meds for years, gone to to rehab, kick kick the habit. And I think in some ways, we're probably looking for, a new way to live, you know, without the meds. Do do you think that, sports would have helped you along? I mean, during those dark years when when you were, in kind of the the opioid funk? Without a doubt. Yeah. I mean, but what I have to remember and kinda give myself leniency for is, my parents did what they could to keep me alive. Yeah. Like, that was their focus. And and through through no fault of my own, but because of my cancer, they missed out on a lot in life. And they divorced almost immediately after I got out of high school, and I and I was happy they did because I knew they weren't happy with each other. And, you know, having a child with cancer is devastating. Losing a child is is even more devastating, but for us, we we made it, and so we're just trying to pick up the pieces. And there was nobody there really to say, like, hey. Maybe we should go, like, try and walk and see if we can, you know, get see if you have pain in your leg. Yeah. I occasionally, my my roommate at the time, he was a high school football quarterback. So, like, we'd get together and play pickup football every now and then, but it was never, like, high competitive, high competition, you know, work no. There was no intention behind working out, getting stronger, whatever. It was just having fun. Yeah. But I was also on pain pills at the time. Totally. So not only was I not getting the the fitness minded aspect of of being an athlete, but I just didn't really care. Being dragged down a little bit. Like, it you know, I'm like, I'm not as fast as I used to be. I don't really have a desire. Like, if it was a beautiful day, you it would have been news to me. Right. Now, of course, I walk outside on a day like today and it's blue skies and nice breeze, and I'm like, let's go do something outside. Let's go paddle boarding or play golf or or or, you know, get a round of soccer together or pick up game of soccer. Yeah. There was I didn't have anybody there that kind of grabbed me and pulled me out of that little funk. Yeah. Pre Until? Yeah. Until I meet Cindy Prezent, and CP is what I call her. She's just this 5 foot tall, bubbly, probably one of the most competitive and high performing athletes I've known. CP, I apologize whenever you listen to this, but, she's gotta be mid to late fifties now and outdoes every single person our age Awesome. I could think of. Yeah. She also has, her husband Steve is just absolutely incredible, and then her boys, Cade and Colton, are, also just my just my favorite. The family is incredible. You'll read about them in the book, so please, again, get the book. But I was working at Gold's Gym. My high school friend, Colin, was the GM there. He hired me to be a fitness counselor, and I was thinking about getting my personal training certification because I wanted to do something in fitness.

And I was there one morning at 5: 17:09

30 AM to, like, staff the front desk because our front desk girl had called in sick or something. I can't remember what it was. And Cindy comes in at, you know, just after 5 to get

ready for her 5: 17:19

30 AM spin class, and she's like, hey, kiddo. When are you gonna join me for the spin class? I was like, I can't. Look at you. Look at me. Like, no. You're an athlete, and I'm like a recovering cancer survivor drug addict. Like, it's not gonna be a pretty show. She's like, I don't care. Like, I want you to come. You can sit in the back if you want, but I want you to come sometime. So, like, later that week, I just, you know, I didn't have spin shoes. I didn't have workout clothes or anything really, and I had only recently started becoming active again through, like, walk running around Towne Lake with my my high school best friend, Alex. And so Cindy was really the first one that said, like, you can do it. Like, anybody can do this. I've got people that come in and they have an amputated leg or they're recovering from, you know, being £300 or, you know, just any kind of inspiring Yeah. Victory story. Like, she was not letting me make an excuse for this. Incredible. And I finished that spin class, and I was in so much pain and wanted to throw up so bad, and it was the happiest I had felt in probably 10 years. So this was, like, 2008, 2009, so, yeah, I mean, maybe even more than that. And I realized that the high of working out whenever I did work out on pain pills was muted by the fog of drug addiction. Yeah. And then after that, I still had the lingering doubts of, like, I still have a broken leg. I still have a broken jaw. All of the people that I grew up with have now graduated from college where I dropped out of college the 1st year because of all the pain addiction and and and everything and just the lack of desire. Doubt doubt has crept in and 100%. Planted this thing. It it was like, I I just I needed somebody to smack me across their face and say, stop being the victim. Like Yeah. You have autonomy. You can you can do things. And over and over in my head, I just replayed what my plastic surgeon says, like, you're probably not gonna be able to walk, much less run without any pain in your leg. You're probably not gonna be the athlete you once were. You need to be careful because now you have the potential for a broken leg. Like, all those things just kept repeating themselves over and over again until Cindy It totally makes sense. Yeah. It's like, wow. Yeah. I can do this. I can't you know? And because of Cindy, because of other people, I was pulled out of that fog and ultimately, it started a comeback story that is now, you know, listed in this book. And I I also I just the reason I asked you about the the jaw and fibula surgery is because you were you were missing a significant part of your, was it right leg? Or Yeah. My left leg. Left leg. It's now in my right jaw. So I technically still have my fibula. It's just up here What's really gone is my load. My my jaw and my tumor are, you know, in some biohazard bag somewhere near Anderson. Yeah. Like, or somewhere. Who knows? But but I mean, you know, your, fortitude to, like, get back on the bike where you you, you know, you've got the fibula Yeah. Missing from your leg and and then, to to stick with it. I I I just didn't know that about you, you know, and I I think it's just an incredible part part of the story. So and I was excited to read it because everyone you know, if you've if you've run, if you've done a long bike ride, everyone gets that that runner's high or or the endorphin kick. And to read, your book and and kind of, live that through you of of having that feeling for the first time Right. Since you were a kid. I mean, you know, a long time, just just it was one of the highlights for me. So so you got into the spin class, and how long until, you know, you were you were doing it more frequently and and running and, what was that process like? So working at Gold's and having Cindy be there so frequently, I couldn't really hide anywhere. Yeah. So if I wasn't at her spin class but I showed up to work later, I always had a good ribbing of, like, hey. Like, so you can show up to work. You can't show up to my spin class. So having that accountability is early on, I really learned that surrounding yourself with good people that if they are achieving the things that you want to be achieving, then that's a person that you should have, like, in your circle, in your in your quiver, of arrows, so to speak. And so I just I kept doing it. And at first, the left leg was, you know, throbbing pretty much halfway through and then would hurt the rest of the day, and slowly that went away. And from the metaphor perspective, you know, I think a lot of times when things get challenging in life, we don't realize that they are making us more resilient, and and we're literally tearing ourselves down and building them back up stronger. I mean, that's the definition of of musculature. Like Yeah. We're literally tearing our muscle fibers apart and making them come back stronger than ever. Cindy alone didn't do this, but she was certainly the the catalyst behind it. So once I realized that the, you know, the pain that doctor said I would experience after all the cancer was there, but it was going away slowly. The stronger that I got, the the more endurance that I built up. My confidence also increased. So I thought, alright. Maybe I'll sign up for this bike ride. So was there in the book, you you mentioned having continuous pain, basically, more or less a constant. Did getting fit and and building more muscle and building your your cardio, have a correlation with less pain? Yes and no. So I still have pain. I mean, my jaw, just the way it it's rebuilt, there's too much crossover of nerves and tissue and bone that I I I'm I'm uncomfortable oftentimes during the day. Weather helps or hurts that. If it's warmer, I feel better. If it's colder, if I don't plan for it and my jaw starts to get cold because I have a metal plate that looks exactly like a bike chain under, x-ray Yeah. That's what, you know, is is the mold, is the template for my jaw of how it's supposed to grow. If that gets cold, you know, I'm miserable. And I I still hurt, but everybody hurts. People get headaches. For the 1st year of living in Austin my whole life, for the 1st year this year, I've, apparently gotten allergies. So now I understand why people are so miserable when their lymph nodes are swollen wild. And they're sniffling, and they've got, like, cedar fever. I'm like, what are you guys talking about? Allergies in Austin are bad, but it's usually people like me that are coming somewhat recently to get them for the final first time, not not a lifer. I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm getting to that age where my body is susceptible to that kind of stuff, but I I've been miserable in the past few weeks, but everybody deals with discomfort. You know? I'm no different than anyone else. Yeah. My my story, my history might be, different than yours, but we all go through pain. And what Cindy and and really that time in my life helped me realize is that, you know, pain pain is important. It teaches us to appreciate when we're not hurting. And what I realized is even though I was in pain when I was on pain meds, I also didn't feel anything else. So when I felt pain after rehab and when I felt pain that was pain that I was causing, not the cancer, like, I was driving my legs on that spin bike or I was out pounding the trail Yeah. Around Towne Lake. I I was in charge of that discomfort, and that discomfort was making me a better person. And it's not simple. You you would prefer to be off the meds and have some of the, actual pain from from your surgeries in addition to the to the good pain that you get from the workouts that you can do because you're feeling good enough and not in a in a haze. But what I realized in addition to that, Sam, is once I started working out more and creating my own discomfort, the other pain went away because I had endorphins and I had adrenaline. And as I started to become healthier, I started eating better. So less sugars, you know, less I I don't know if it's, like, saturated fats versus uns I just wasn't eating Right. The way that I should have been. Drinking sodas a lot, drinking alcohol a lot. Yeah. Once my life my lifestyle changed from being this sedentary drug addict to this fitness minded active person. I knew that if I was gonna sustain miles on the bike, I needed to eat better. Well, then everything started to feel better across the board. So again virtuous cycle. Yeah. And it's and it wasn't anything And and pain is is mental and emotional. So the the better you're feeling, the the more it's gonna cancel out some of the And the less likelihood that I would relapse and, you know, go back to taking drugs again because I found a new drug. Right. And, I think that's that's life. You find the things that are good for you and that can sustain you. And and that yeah. Really, that just put me a trajectory. It's like the it's like the best vice possible endurance course. It really is. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people will make fun of it that aren't in the fitness industry, and I've heard many times people say when you're outside of it, you can't understand it, but when you're in it, you can't explain it. And that's how I feel because you can't tell me that I the life that I was living before was was better than what I'm what I eventually evolved into. Yeah. Even though, you know, being on the pills, I was doing what the doctors were telling me and what my post cancer life was expected to be. Yeah. Hey. I'm alive. So it's okay that I'm taking pain meds because I'm not dead. Right. Oh, hey. I'm alive. It's okay that I'm not living the best life I wanna be because I beat cancer. Yeah. I realized that that wasn't enough for me. I wanted to find prosperity. I wanted to find contentment. I wanted to, you know, to travel and eat good food and and meet good people, not just sit around and watch TV and and waste away all day. Yeah. And and that was Cindy that really, like, you know, reminded me, hey, I'm in control of this more than I thought I was. So I I knew, from reading the book that that was a really important relationship because you've you've spoken a lot about community, and you've spoken a lot about mentorship and and having the right people, on your side and and kind of using them, as basically a guide for for your life. And I I feel similarly, and have and have had, you know, really important mentors. So as as far as your story goes, Cindy is kinda like the first one, super important. But but where do you go from there? And and, you know, your your story is it's not one just of of endurance, you know, sports and and getting to Kona and and getting to Kilimanjaro. It's also really about personal development. I I think, you know, maturation and and career. So yeah. I mean, you know, you you end up you're working at the gym. One of your next roles was at Costco, and you you started, you know, like, entry level, I mean, in the checkout aisle. And, you know, yeah, I just wanted to get your thoughts on, on that kind of, like okay. So you're Mikey Thompson. You beat cancer 4 times. You're, like, so thrilled to be, you know, active and and participating in triathlon. But I guess who were the main, players in helping you shift your mentality from, hey. Like, I'm I'm really glad to just be here and and, you know, be playing sports, to, hey. I I wanna really challenge myself intellectually too. So it's it's hard to identify one specific moment, but I remember And and, yeah, total journey, but but that I thought that was one of the best narratives in the book. I I just I remember distinctly thinking, like, okay. You know, I I didn't I didn't follow the normal pathway that a person my age did. I didn't finish college and get that job that I've been looking for. I I I don't ever compare myself to other kids, but I did recognize, like, okay. Well, that family is still together. They didn't have cancer diagnosis. This this friend that I knew has this great job because they just graduated, and here I am without a college degree. Basically, no job history. I worked at a pool store during, you know, the time that I was free rehab, not doing anything to contribute to my resume whatsoever. And once I got out of rehab, it wasn't just a fresh start without drugs. It was a fresh start in life. It coincided with 2,008 housing crisis. Like, people lost family fortunes. People lost their entire savings. People weren't getting jobs, graduating from college. And so I was just appreciative of, like, being able to have a job at goals, being able to get a job. And, like, one day, I just and and I can't stress this enough. Being hooked on pain meds both, you know, physically and mentally, like, I I didn't wake up thinking, oh, I I need to go brush my teeth or I need to shower or I need to run. I would wake up thinking I need to get a pill in me as soon as I can because I knew withdrawals would come in, I knew pain would start hurting, and become more apparent. And so I was always trying to stay ahead of the withdrawal or the pain. And when I was when I broke free of that, it was like every day I woke up with this newfound excitement of, like, what can I do? You know? And so one day And that's I think the Mikey that, like, I know and and everyone knows. And it's what I hope other people see is that, you know, right now, I don't have patience for bad attitudes at all because you can look at anything in life and say the grass is greener. But I guarantee you, I can show you where there's no grass at all. I can show you the the family who's a single mom and her youngest has cancer, and she's figuring out how she's gonna pay for her kids that are not sick for them to go to school and have clothes Yeah. While her other kid is fighting for his or her life. Or look at what's happening in the Middle East. Look what's happening in other parts of the world where there's hunger, famine, poverty. Like, for you personally, I mean, you, named countless cancer victims That were dead. That that are no longer with us. And, you know, I I think about Ashley and Emma and Billy all the time. And so for me, I I and I always try and express this to my audiences when I speak. It's like I know that I have a leg up on where I was before, whether it was in the hospital room, whether it was in surgery wanting to die, whether it was in jail because I've been arrested plenty of times. Like, I've been in so many places that are so much worse than sitting across the table from one of my favorite people in the world recording a podcast that, like, it's hard for me to be broken out of that. Now that doesn't mean I have days where I it doesn't mean that I never have a bad attitude, but I'm more easily able to correct it because of what I've been through, and not everybody has that personal experience. And so for me, it was being out of rehab, having a refreshed outlook on life, knowing that I needed to start somewhere to build that career, to start earning money, to to one day have a family, buy a house, a car, all those things. And I just remember my dad, I was living with him at the time, and he loves Costco. And one day a lot of people love Costco. I do too. I my wife and I were there because they have lemon trees the other day. And so we went by, and they were out, and we're probably gonna go back tomorrow to see if they have more Meyer lemon trees. By the way, shout out Baskets, one of the most underrated shows on television with Zach Galifianakis. Costco, specifically, the Kirkland brand plays a huge role in that show. I'm watching that. I'm about to finish the bear. Everyone watch baskets for me. Sorry. Sorry, Mikey. No. It's fine. We can plug anything we want to in here. Hopefully, we'll get lifetime Costco memberships out of this, isn't it? Kirkland would sponsor us. We'll get Kirkland merch. Everything. Yeah. You hear that Kirkland? Name brands on all this stuff. So we we're at Costco, and and my dad, is kinda like me. He's just gregarious and, you know, loves not a stranger to no one. And so he's talking to this guy, Neil, who was always the stocking produce. And Neil was a no nonsense guy, glasses, curly hair, and always had gloves on. He's like, oh, mister Thompson. How are you doing, mister Thompson? And he's like, good. This is my son, Mike. He's living with me for now, kinda getting back on his feet. And, again, like, I had no embarrassment whatsoever. I was like, what's up, Neil? How's it going? It also coincided with a resurgence of fitness. So, like, I was getting fit. I was tan. I was looking good. He's like, you look like a hard worker. You should work here. And then on the way home, I was like, you know, they're hiring. Right? Starts at, like, $22 an hour. I'm like, alright. I'll look into this. And so I applied, got the job, the 90 day probationary period of pushing carts and stocking shelves and all that, and I I loved it. I was like, this is so easy. All I'm doing is pushing carts into a corral. I get a free membership out of it, you know, break, lunch break every day, and I'm making more money than I've ever known before. And interacting with people, which is probably one of your strong suits. Yeah. Big driver of why I wanted to go to work every day. And as you'll read in the book, you'll see that that led to so many other things of reconnecting with certain people. One thing that I didn't mention in the book was my connection with Texas 4000 for cancer. UT, cycling group founded by my friend Chris Condit, another cancer survivor. Sorry, Chris. I'm gonna butcher this. I think it was 2,004. He's like, cancer survivor, wanted to do something big, decides to ride his bike from Austin Austin to Anchorage, Alaska. 2009 or 2010. And and I'm and how many miles is that? 4 46100. Okay. There's different routes. But yeah. Shout out Texas 4000. Crazy. Love you guys. But one day, this guy, John Fitch, who was a member of the 2009 or 1010 team, I didn't know who he was, but I saw this cart come by with bananas and Nutella and bread and peanut butter and all this. And I was like, yes. Like, you're getting ready for, like, a a bike aid station because I had just started getting back into cycling, had signed up for the century ride in Lake Tahoe with team in training, and I just recognized the cart, ingredients. And he's like, yeah. We're riding our bikes to Alaska in a couple months. And I was like, that's cool. What floor? And he's like, we're Texas 4000 for cancer. I was like, I had cancer. Y'all are awesome. Like, so there's there are all these kind of, like, little relationships. But it wouldn't have happened if you weren't at Costco doing your thing. Yeah. Exactly. Costco let me make a lot of money, gave me a lot of job experience on how to manage and deal with people, but that was just, like, the first step to get back into it. So, yeah, that was that was, like, my first big boy job Yeah. Out of rehab where I, you know, worked 40 hours a week and had benefits and insurance. And, you know, first time that I had insurance, that was mine, not on my parents because I was 23 year old kid. Yeah. And with all the cancer stuff, it just made sense to stay on my parents' insurance until we knew I was healthy. Yeah. And at that point, I was healthy. Awesome. So so I I really again, mentorship is is a big part of your story. Jack Murray, is definitely, you know, I think one of the most important figures in in my in Mikey's story. Can you can you tell us a little bit about, your relationship and and, you know, I think I think how it started, but also, the ways that he encouraged you on on your path. And if you can add a little color just about, like, there's so much in this book. You know? It's it's gonna be so hard for us to cover it all. But but yeah. I mean, you're, you you went from, it seems like, 0 to 60. I mean, you you, got on the spin class, and then very soon after, we're we're doing triathlons. And I guess a good way to transition is working at the shop, and I'll leave it there. When I was working at Costco, I became part of the marketing team, and my job was to go out and do expos, health expos at different companies, corporations, wellness events. And one time, as I was, again, getting kind of my feet wet and fundraising and riding bikes with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society's team and training program, I was at Costco representing the company and I saw Jack and Adam's bicycles on a banner. And the campaign manager, Maggie, who worked for the Leukemia Society, had said she was a triathlete and she was sponsored by them, and it's like the best place to go. So if I ever wanted to get into a triathlon, if I ever needed anything, cycling related, I could go to them. Now I had grown up going to bicycle sports shop. You know, know, I got my first bike in 2000 Which is one one of the main shops that's still, I guess, now it's It's owned by Trek. Right. And then and, you know, now I On Lamar Yeah. In Barton. And now it's weird because, yeah, I worked at Jack and Adams, but now I work for Specializ, you know, years later. So it's like I go back to school, get a master's degree, and I'm right back in a bike shop. So, like, you know, you'll you'll find a lot of continuity there. But I can distinctly remember meeting when I met Jack, but I definitely remember when I met Stacy, his wife. I saw her. We we chatted for probably at least a half hour together the first day I met her at that expo. And I was like, I've heard all about you. I'm just getting into cycling. Would love to, like, learn more about Jack and Adams and how I can help. And so, exchanged information, and then, a week or so later, I was planning on going by the bike shop, by Jack and Adams. And I went by and Jack was like, oh, yeah. Stacy told me all about your story. I've got you all set up with employee pricings. You come in here, like, everything is at at cost plus 10. We want you to be successful, you know, like, we wanna support people that are doing good in the community. And I hadn't done anything in the community yet. I was literally just this cancer survivor, drug addict, like, looking to live a life. And a guy who didn't even know you put you on. And and to have faith in someone like that kinda blindly is is Jack is very good at reading people. He's he's probably and I I consider him one of my best friends. Pretty much every success that I've had since meeting him has been in some way related to him. I I can tie it back to his That's a high compliment. It's, in terms of praise, I can't give it really anywhere else besides, like, my my family because Jack has been so Jack and Stacy and and Dan, together. And there's been plenty of other people that I've learned from through Jack and Adam's, the bike shop, or Highfive Events, the sister company. Yeah. And there's a reason why every year, I'll I will return back to be a part of the production team for the Austin marathon or 3 m half marathon or captain k or Kerrville Triathlon series because I've learned more from that group of people and from Jack about life, about work ethic, about personal fulfillment, just just living life from those experiences. And it all started whenever I met Jack. And he and the reason why by the way, another through line here is community, and and you're a, you know, true Austin lifer, one of the one of the rare ones. And and this is the only town that you've ever lived in. Right? I mean, so other than worlds. It really, it's a testament. I mean, you you mentioned the 700 letters from your your high school classmates and going to work at the gym, going to work at Costco, and and what has unfolded. And it it just it's all here. And, yeah, there there's just this amazing community, and a lot of it in in our lives touches on the endurance stuff. But I I talk about in the book the connection that I have to the city because Austin, you know, really wrapped its arms around me when we were going through cancer because my dad worked for Austin Energy. And so being a city of Austin employee meant that there were, you know, back then, pre tablet, pre social media, all that. It was, you know, literally like message boards, you know, like, cork boards on walls and offices that were, like, fundraisers Tear a piece of paper off for the info. Fundraiser for Jim Thompson's kid. My dad's nickname at the city was 36 because the first day he showed up to line crew when he was, like, 19 years old, he was wearing a Texas a and m jersey that had number 36 on the back. You know, city raised 100 of 1,000 of dollars for me back in the mid nineties. And then And this this was through, like, fundraising events. Right? Yeah. Grassroots fundraising events through through different, city departments, through, you know, different community fundraisers. And 100 100 of 1,000 of dollars, especially, you know, a few years ago. That's 1,000,000,000. That's that's, that that's a lot. Counting for inflation, I'm pretty sure it's, like, you know, 250 mil. One of the topics, we wanted to touch on was definitely purpose, and not all the listeners are going to know this about your life and your career, but pretty, pretty soon after you you got into the workforce, you started working at Livestrong for for how many years? 3 years as an employee. Okay. Probably a total of 10 as an employee, fundraiser, volunteer, advocate, spokesperson. Right. Involved. Yep. And and then, there were, at least one other, maybe 2 other fun fundraising development jobs. Yep. So what struck me, was you have chosen, and whether that's through deliberate or or kind of, you know, happy circumstances to pursue, you know, jobs, livelihood, that that purpose is really the the centerpiece. And and that's really powerful for you know, I I haven't worked at nonprofits and and I can see it it being really fulfilling, and and giving you giving you energy when you're when you're showing up and helping people every day. So you mentioned the 3 tenets that that the book outlines and and what you're you're basing finding good on. When when did those start to develop? They started or let's just say that the last one, the Legal Well Better than You Found It started when I was in treatment because and and we can we might get into the kind of religious aspect of it, but what I found is that, you know, thoughts and prayers are great, but they only go so far. And despite many prayers and and and many good thoughts, there were kids around me that were dying. And so I realized that as a a blood cancer survivor, specifically through the the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, I had an opportunity to be an, an advocate. And so they call them honored heroes. Honored angels are ones that have passed on. Honored heroes or honored teammates are still living, And so I became the honored hero, honored teammate for the 2009 Lake Tahoe bike ride with leukemia society. And Which was a century. Right? A century ride. 10 years prior, my dad had done one in Tucson, with the leukemia society in my honor, and I got to go and and speak and be a part of it, but I didn't do any fundraising. So almost immediately after rehab, I thought I need to get back to that. Like, you know, Emma's not here with us, Billy's not here with us, Ashley's not here with us, Tom's not here with us, like, Jay is not here with us. You gotta do something. I I have to do something. And so, you know, for me, it was like, well, I wanna I wanna help people that are being threatened by the same thing that tried to kill me. So it started out with blood cancer. Then when I got to know the Livestrong folks a little bit more, you know, and I had read, if not about the bike, from Lance. I I knew I actually knew Lance. I still know Lance, but I knew Lance before he did any tours, and he had cancer and he was just an Olympic cyclist. He came by to see us in like 1998, and I'm like one of maybe I think there's only 2 or 3 of us that are still alive out of the dozen that he met that day at Brackenridge Children's Hospital Park, like, back in 1999 18/98/99. And so once I started to meet the Livestrong folks, I realized, okay. Like, cancer research is good, but we've been researching cures for a long time. You know, race for the cure, ride for the cure, run for the cure. And what I really loved about Livestrong was they focused on the person fighting the disease, not the disease that's trying to kill them. How do you preserve your fertility? How do you afford treatment? How do you navigate chronic pain? How do you become a whole person after the disease has done everything it can to make you unwhole? And so it transitions slowly from raising money for blood cancer research to raising money for patient support services of patients that have blood cancer to all out raising money for Livestrong. And that's when it transitioned from, you know, going to the Ironman World Championship in Hawaii and raising money for the Go Mich Go Foundation, which focused on blood cancers, but also patient services to now let's focus on, you know, the people that are fighting the disease and not trying to fight just the disease. Yeah. Fight for the people that have it. And and my wife's, father passed away from cancer, and he was an avid cyclist. And, you know, you mentioned this in the book, Lance's sort of, sports career. There there's a lot a lot of opinions, a lot to be said about that, and doping and and the controversy. But, you know, for you as a witness, a personal witness, I mean, his contribution to and I think you're you're saying, yes, cancer research, but also, the softer side of the experience for families making it something that people talked about. Yeah. You know, losing a testicle, all of a sudden that that was something people were more comfortable, speaking about in public and and also the fertility. Right? He was a big advocate for, what may making, health insurance companies include Yep. Fertility service for for cancer patients going into chemo. Yep. Right? So I I did not want to, leave that part out of of Lance's legacy. I mean, so yeah. Say what you will. And, honestly, it feels kinda good to talk about it openly now. I mean, once once Lance kinda disclosed everything on Oprah and and really, unveiled all that was going on in the sport back then, you know, and and people knew and still know of my advocacy, not only for Livestrong, but being a fan of Lance is he transformed cancer navigation. I mean, Livestrong through the power of the yellow bracelet and and and the fundraising dollars from Nike, matching dollars from Nike, and and those partnerships really made the cancer fight more visible and made people more aware of, like, yes. Like, we need to figure out a way to cure these diseases. But there needs to be infrastructure as well Yes. Around Well every aspect. Okay. You have cancer, and you know that you need to beat cancer. The treatment is working, but you don't know if you're gonna have enough gas money to get down to Houston to get chemo at MD Anderson, or you don't know if you can afford this next procedure because insurance you've met your insurance cap. So how do we figure that out? You wanna have a family afterwards. Like cancer took my ability to have kids. There was no discussion whatsoever of, you know, banking sperm or preserving eggs or embryos prior to cancer. A very good friend of mine, Morgan, is his name, and he has 2 girls now because of, like, fertility preservation services. And, my old friend Dave Loeffy from Livestrong Foundation is now, kind of like a not freelance, but his his own separate, attorney, for for lobbying, specifically with the Alliance For Fertility Preservation. And we just celebrated a passage of a house bill in the Texas legislature that makes insurance companies accommodate storage, fertility related services, covers those costs. That would not have happened without Lance. That all of that started at and that was a per part part of the work that I wanted to champion back then. And and just from the inspirational side of it, like, you know, I know exactly how Lance felt when they I didn't have my head cut open like he did or his testicle moved like he did, but we went through a lot of the same shit. And if you read any of those books, sorry for the language, y'all. Alright. You're pretty good. Look it out. But, you know, we we went through a lot of the same shit kind of together and then, you know, separately. And so I anybody that was like, oh, you know, the the doping and the setting. Yeah. I'm like, don't talk to me about that. Like, there are more important things in life You don't get it. Focus on. Just don't get it for all. Yeah. And I and I don't even wanna talk to you anymore. But, like, I I still know Lance, and I know, JB Hager, who runs the the We Do podcast and the Move podcast with them. We're we're all still, you know, tight. I get to see them now, hopefully, more this year now that they're, back in Austin. But just another interesting connection to that, my friend Colton, the younger son of Steve and Cindy present, is now the content creator, you know, video and for Generation. Videographer or photographer for we do. Yeah. And and now he's telling stories through the move and through the Ford and all those things. So we're we know this is one big family, and at times, it can seem kind of incestuous, but, there's a lot of magic happening in this city. And I think we're just getting started, in terms of having an impact, not only in the cancer navigation space, but, like, just look at everything that's happening here from from economics, from, you know, Elon Musk and Joe Rogan making this place their home base, from, having probably a a wider culinary selection that rival starting to rival Chicago, New York, and Boston in terms of high end cuisine, art, music, film Breakfast club. Bike groups, like, running groups. I mean, look at the explosion of fitness the fitness community here in Austin. Like, everything is is starting to happen. So to be a part of it and I think where we might be going with this from Austin to the rest of the world, people can adopt the finding good mentality and say that, look, we don't deny or disregard that bad days happen, but we're focused on the good that we can get out of it. Which, by the way, I think is really refreshing coming from a Austin lifer Yeah. Who's not talking smack on people moving from California. I did for a while, and and Jack will be the first one to tell you about that. But that was that was me still in my, you know, post cancer drug effect, you know, because I a lot of the frustration that I had in my early adult years, especially my mid to late twenties, was seeing all these people celebrate the city for what I've known it always to be and getting priced out of it because I hadn't That's frustrating. Yeah. I was the bike shop guy. So I Yeah. You know, borderline minimum wage and and didn't have a This is a real issue. Right. Didn't didn't have a a college degree. So, like, getting a an upwardly mobile job was, you know, possible, but unlikely. Yeah. And and so, again, the culmination of all that, like, working at Livestrong, working at nonprofits, at some point, I finally realized, like, look. I've I've been raising so much money for, like, other organizations at this point, like, to the tune of 1,000,000 of dollars. Well, also, it's it's a hard and exhausting job. Asking people for money is the most exhausting thing. And and my, I guess, reasoning behind why it never got old is because I never asked for money for myself. And now I'm at the point where I'm like, okay. Now, yeah, you should invest in me because, like, I'm gonna go do good things. And I I've obviously have had, you know, amazing support from very close friends and mentors. My friend, Alan, has kinda the one that, like, inspired me to really do this and said, like, dude, just go do it. Like, you know, I'll I'll help you along the way, but, like, just do it. Stop talking about it already. And so, yeah, now we're now we're here, and now we're weeks away from getting this thing published and sharing the story and sharing the narrative with other people so that my hope is when they when they read the book, when they see our conversation, that they really take a moment to say, like, you know what? Life life might not be exactly what I want it to be right now, but it's pretty damn good. Yeah. If I'm able to sit and watch this podcast or if I have time to read this book and I'm complaining about certain things in life, like, maybe I should rethink the way that I'm looking at life. Yeah. And I I think, just reading the the first few pages really gets you. That was the goal, was to really kind of, like, shock people and say, like, wow. It worked. Yeah. And it made me immediately grateful and, and and reflect on on my life and and how I I really, always want want to look at at things, through the lens of of someone that that objectively has a good life and should and should feel feel grateful. Right. You know? So it really had had that effect. That was that was the goal. So I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. And it it's so I think just just diving deeper into finding good, let's continue talking about, your path. So, you go to work for, Livestrong and and other organizations, fundraising. You also go back to undergrad eventually. And yeah. So that I think I think you mentioned before the interview was kind of or actually in the book, I'll say it. It was like a a box, you know, that that you wanted to check, but it it wasn't kind of, it wasn't the driver behind your your current path with with finding good and and your and your career. So I guess let's let's get into that. You you you graduate from from undergrad. What what was the next thing that took you to, exploring communications more, and and eventually writing a book? So we're gonna Tarantino this. Yeah. So we know the outcome. We know the end. We're gonna work our way back, going back to how certain relationships and certain experiences can fuck. Yeah. So if I had not been working at the bike shop, I never would have met Greg and Linda Rust, who are my in laws now that were patrons of the shop and knew Jack and knew Drew, new Adam, like, the original people at the shop. Linda, my mother-in-law, is a ultra runner. She's just the best, most amazing person in the whole world. Greg, my father-in-law, is an Ironman athlete. He's become a mentor. We're we're movie buddies. We go watch war movies together at Alamo Drafthouse now. About 3 months before we were getting ready to go off to Africa, Greg reached out and said my daughter, sadly lost her husband to a very tragic incident. He had type 1 diabetes. His name was Dylan, and Dylan passed away suddenly, about 2 years, into their marriage. She was moving back to Austin from San Antonio where they had basically started their life together after they finished undergrad, and we just became friends. I get back from Africa. She just reached out on Facebook and said, I followed your trip through your mom's posts. Would love to hear about it sometime. We connected, became friends and, you know, eventually started dating. Read the book. It's a really it's a really good story. But, you know, when we first became friends and then slowly started dating and then eventually fell in love and then eventually moved in together, She had already finished, you know, 2 bachelor's and a master's degree. She was finishing another master's and about to start a doctorate. I would come home from Livestrong and watch Cubs highlights or the Cubs game if it were on. And at some point, it was kinda like, this is a little lopsided and, like, my $40,000 a year salary, you know, she was an acupuncturist that had started working for Baylor Scott and White Health as an acupuncturist and eventually, you know, moved up to the the company to now be in a leadership role. But I realized that the path that I was on of just, like, working in nonprofits was not only a viable path in terms of, like, making enough money to support a family one day, but it it was also I just felt, incomplete when I go there. Mhmm. And it wasn't because I didn't have a degree or I didn't feel smart enough. It was just I felt like I wanted to learn more about myself. So when the Cubs won the World Series in 2016, like literally that night, Kendall had fallen asleep on the couch and I thought, I think I want to finish the degree. Not because I feel like I need a piece piece of paper on the wall to tell me I'm smart, but because I wanna know that I can stay the course and finish this, which I didn't have the desire to do the first time around. And I fell in love with school, you know, as of late, I was approaching 30 years old at that point. And I thought, like, wow. I'm actually interested in this stuff. Like, I'm having to finish a basic not a basic, but a bachelor's degree. So I had basics. I had these requisites that I needed, whether it was, you know, a history course, a statistics course, a science course. I'm having to do all these things, but now I have all this life experience to relate to it. So I'm like, oh, that's why that war happened. Or, like, oh, now I know what mean and variance and, you know, like, all the the now I've forgotten it already. Nice to go back to school when you have a little more context. 100%. So immediately, I'm thinking, like, why don't more people wait and and work different jobs? Like, I wasn't suggesting at all that people take a 13 year hiatus from Yeah. Higher education and, you know, become addicted to drugs and, you know, don't live a prosperous life and then go back to school. I'm just saying maybe take a little bit of time to explore what this world has to offer. So that got my my wheel spinning. All the while, Kendall is finishing her doctorate. I'm cruising through undergrad, working at Baylor Scott and White. I transitioned from Livestrong to there, raising money again for local, you know, health care system and it's an incredible organization and they do great work. But, again, not raising money for myself, raising it for other people, and I don't always see where those that those funds go. And by the way, I'm still seeing that cannabis is stigmatized. Although I've read a lot of things that people are benefiting from in other places, I still see that politics are becoming more talked about and discussed because of the 2016 election. And I just I have this outlook on life where, like, I'm alive. I'm not on drugs. I'm happy, and yet everyone's fighting, and everyone's miserable. And all these things are happening. I'm like And by the way, with with the cannabis piece, had you been taking it for for pain management? Okay. I had never been high before. I didn't know what it felt like. But during undergrad, part one of my tasks in a creative writing course, writing for the media and PR was the name of the course. I had to write a 20 page argumentative paper about a socially controversial topic. So I'm I'm like, not abortion. Here's the things that I just I'm not ready to dive into yet. What's accessible? What's what's something that relates to my story that I can argue without coming from a biased point of view. I thought, well, I've never been high before. I've never taken cannabis, but I am a cancer patient, and I have been addicted to drugs before. Let's see where the and and in rehab, I never met anybody that was in there because of weed. Yeah. It was alcohol, heroin, meth, opioids, Xanax, like, you know, every other thing but weed. And I had only dabbled a little bit in researching cannabis, but it was that paper, it was that assignment that really made me research it. And I read this book called Chasing the Scream by an author named Johann Hari, and and and Hari went into the research of not only states in America that were doing it, but countries that had fully legalized drugs, not just cannabis, crime went down, poverty went down, economics went up, prosperity went up. I mean, everything was happening because they had access to cannabis. So more people were ingesting weed, cannabis, different drugs than alcohol or prescription drugs, and their lives were improving because of it. Society was potentially improving. Yeah. Right. And I became fixated on this idea that, like, I was put on pain meds because it was pain management. It was what doctor said would help with this pain and there was no intervention until my mom said, hey, you you're fucked up all the time. Maybe we should, like, talk about you living a little bit different life. Again, we can bleep that out, hopefully. But I thought, okay. Like, now I'm starting to turn the wheels a little bit. Like, I can use communication. I can use cancer. I can use all these things, but, like, I wanna make a big impact on this world. Why else am I still here? I have a chance that Emma didn't, that Billy didn't, that Ashley didn't. Like, I wanna do something to help others improve their lives. And I think the other thing is you you've had this remarkable life experience that has put, so much in perspective. And and to what the point, from earlier, it requires you to live your life purposefully. You you you have to make a difference. To me, there's no other alternative now. Like, it I'm still alive because other people intervened. I'm still alive because other people reached out, whether it was my mom pulling me out of the clutches of drug addiction, whether it was my school classmates and and teammates saying we don't want you to die of cancer, like, please keep fighting, whether it was Cindy pulling me out of that, you know, post rehab fog of, like, I'm never gonna be the athlete I was, so why even try? Whether it was Jack Murray saying, stop whining, start working hard, and you'll live a good life. Like, you know, just Yeah. We always get into these ruts where we feel like we can't get out when the answers are might be really close by, and sometimes we need others to show us those answers. Yeah. And so I started realizing, like, man, I have the power now to help people understand different things about their life. But And your your undergraduate degree was in communication too. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Initially, it was So so the, the gears are turning. Yes. You're you're thinking about these these topics that affect, you know, big populations. Yes. And and through undergrad, you know, it was a very high level, very broad application of the communication discipline. I mean, it it covered a lot of communications, meaning, marketing, advertising, like, what are things being communicated, not communication theory, which is what my graduate degree is in. So under up. Yeah. Undergrad really kind of paved the way. And then to get back to your original question of, like, how did grad school come to be? So I was looking at UT and then Texas State. Well, Texas State's communication school had ranked top 10 in the country, and it was gonna be a lot cheaper to go to Texas State. And the fact that Kendall and Dylan went there was kind of nice. You know, like, I can tie and kinda, like, carry on the family legacy, so to speak. And and I promised Kendall from the outset, like, once we started dating seriously, like, Dylan will always be a part of our life. And Dylan had invested a lot in student services, created an endowment to support Cat Camp, which is, freshman orientation camp to immerse people in the college experience. And I ended up settling on Texas State and got accepted and was like, I can't believe this. Not only do I have a bachelor's degree, I have that piece of paper that's on the wall that's kind of, like, been bothering me back here for so many 13 years, but now I'm gonna be in a master's program. I'm gonna be graduate student. One of my friends, her name is Whitley. She was going through grad school when I first knew her, and I was always jealous when she would say undergrad. She's like, yeah. When I was an undergrad. Because when you're can when you can say when you were in undergrad means that you've gone beyond undergrad. Yeah. So I I really Had a chip on your shoulder. Yeah. I was kinda like, I wanna say that Yeah. Like, when I was an undergrad. And so here I am in grad school, and I picked communication studies again because I wanted to extend what I had become interested in. And and also keep investing in this cannabis argument of, like, why is this one thing that's when I researched it, it's so clearly been skewed. It's so clearly that the narrative has gone down such a dishonest path that, like, certainly, I can be a proponent of this and and change the law. And you and you were pretty objective. So at at what point did you try it? When I became an eligible patient because a law expanded that I helped pass. I did not know that was part of the story. Morris Denton, you might not be there in the chapter yet. Morris Denton, the CEO former CEO of a company called, Compassionate Cultivation, now it's Texas original, was heavily lobbying the legislature, starting in 2017 to expand cannabis access. He had secured, one of 3 licenses that became available with the Texas Compassionate Use Program that passed in 2015 that enabled patients with intractable epilepsy to have access to cannabis medicines, low THC medicines. And again, ever so slowly, these tiny steps towards progress, it was a incredibly cumbersome bill. It required stipulations like 2 physicians had to confirm a diagnosis, The patient had to go to one location under lock and key and get a tiny vial of CBD medicine. And by by the way, the anic anecdotal just from what I read, efficacy Through the roof. Of cannabis Yeah. For epilepsy is Night and day. Through the roof. Yeah. And and now it's no longer anecdotal. There's, like, actual peer reviewed research that's showing that not only does CBD specifically, but cannabis abate seizures, it's also having the same effect across other neurodegenerative disorders. So people with MS, Parkinson's, cerebral palsy, like, it is transforming their lives. And, again, this growing body of evidence is what I'm learning about in Johann Hari's book, Chasing the Scream. That's what I'm learning about when I'm researching this argument in the paper, and it's what I extend my research to, in grad school. Like, I wanna find out how Harry Anslinger what language he used as a federal the director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in the 19 thirties, which is now the DEA. How did how did he successfully stigmatize this plant that's been around for 1000 of years and prevent it from being legally accessible in the United States. That is we're still having issues with it. Yeah. If if And by the way, I mean, I I don't wanna gloss this over. You're now using it for do you call it pain management? What Yeah. Life management, really. Okay. I mean, it's a stress reliever. It's a sleep aid. It's a appetite simulator, or suppressant depending on how you're feeling. And and these are some of the issues you've had, resulting from the from chemo and surgery and and everything. Absolutely. So, I thought the the parallel was fascinating between opioid addiction, for something that is, pretty hardcore as far as having, you know, an an addictive element, and then, you know, replacing that with with cannabis products, which you could argue it's and I think you talk about it a little bit. Maybe it's habit forming, but it it doesn't have the chemical Yeah. Addictive, So and so, you know, THC can, for sure, but everything's addictive. Coffee is addictive. Conversation is addictive. Yeah. Like, you have people that say, like, I can't go a day without working out. Like, that is addiction. Like, that's a habit that has been formed. Yeah. Now whether it's chemically relate you know, relevant, like, being addicted to opioids where if I don't take it, my body starts getting cold chills, and I have sorry. A little bit of a difference. Diarrhea all the time and, you know, lack of control of bowels, an inability to sleep. When When I do sleep, you get tear like, night tears, you know, horrible nightmares, and then the pain because you've created so many pain receptors through chronic use of opioids. Yeah. When you don't feed those receptors, they just start, you know, clamoring for attention. And and, again, like, I don't want to portray myself as an expert in cannabis. I'm not a medical professional. But what I have researched and uncovered through that easily accessible research that president Biden, the DEA, Congress can have access to if they would just take off their blinders is to show that is a far safer application for things like chronic pain, for things like neurodegenerative disorders. And you've you've lived it your yourself. Yeah. And I and I can, like, honestly say that I was never high with the exception of opioids. Had never experienced the high from cannabis that that people get. And, yes, it is important that you contact a physician, and I do believe that it should be legal across, like, federally through a medical program first so people can understand how it's going to affect them. I I'm not this carte blanche, like, supporter of cannabis advocacy that's, like, legalized everything because I've had people that have taken over the counter legally by Texas law, legal cannabis, legal weed, that as long as it's 0.3% or less potent in terms of THC quantity, you can buy it at a gas station. 3 of my friends have ended up in the ER because they've taken it. The dosing hasn't been right. Their heart starts heart rate starts kicking up, and all of a sudden, they start hyperventilating and freaking out. And that's what happens. Being regulated? It when it's unregulated like that, and you can use synthetic THC in the form of delta 8, which delta 9 is the natural can, cannabinoid that comes from the cannabis plant. When you manufacture things and make delta 8 try and feel like delta 9, it's people can research that health care. Yeah. But it's not your body doesn't synthesize it the way that it's supposed to. That said, like, our body has endocannabinoids. Like, this is a natural naturally occurring plant that engages naturally occurring cells in our body to provide homeostasis. So why aren't we exploring this more? All the while during COVID, our political heroes in Texas have made getting alcohol easier. Yeah. You can get it to go now, and we can praise alcohol all we want, which is has been founded to be a toxin, and yet we're preventing this perfectly applicable plant from being in the hands of patients that really need it and people that really need it. So back to the original story. Like We'll def definitely share about the Yeah. You know, the hearings and and your the part you played. And And testifying, in front of house health committees and and going to senators' offices at the state capitol with, Texas original was fortunate is fortunate to have some lobbyists on hand. Michelle Wittenberg is one of them. We call her Witty. I would go with Witty to meet with different senators on both sides of the aisle and say, like, look. I'm a cancer patient. I was hooked on pain meds for years. I'm no longer on them. I currently don't have access to cannabis, but I still have chronic pain. You know, help us out here. And that ended up expanding house bill 1355. 15 to I'm having a blank. It's one of those. Look it up. The Texas Compassionate USAC, and ended up expanding the law to include all cancer patients in all stages of treatment. So you can be a survivor years removed from your cancer diagnosis or treatment, but if you say, hey, doctor diagnosed me with cancer. I'm free of cancer now, but I have chronic pain. You get access to medical cannabis. If you have neuropathy, spasticity, any form of neurodegenerative disorder, there are over a 150 conditions that are now approved because of the work that Texas Original and and our lobbying team and myself and Julia and countless other patient advocates were able to to do. So I am seeing during my 1st year in grad school, seeing a law be passed and expanded to help people just like me. Mhmm. And and that really sent my grad school, you know, focus into overdrive. I'm like, once I get done with this, it's gonna be book publishing time, and then it's gonna be me, yes, marketing this book because I have to make a living somehow, but in it within it, helping people find personal prosperity, helping navigate politics and ideology to make advances in healthcare, whether it's expanding fertility access, whether it's allowing cannabis to be prescribed state or nationwide. And more than anything, having people be aware that life can be good even though it sucks sometimes. Like, it can be good, and you're in more in control of that than you think you are. Yeah. And and do you wanna share with with the listeners just what what your plan is for, I guess for for launching the book and and after, I think you're you're gonna set up sort of a a finding good, brand and suite suite of services. Can you share what your plans are? Both, like, personal and professional. So there will in the coming months, once the book is released, officially on March 16, 2024 And and there's a preorder right now if you go to the website, you can order If you go to finding good dotco, preorder the book there, within the coming weeks, probably by the 1st March. It'll be available on Amazon to preorder, and then you can start, you know, if if you've been one of the VIPs that supported me along the way, you already have access to the ebook. So hopefully, you've read it. You've obviously read it. But once it goes live, then I'll focus on finishing out the curriculum of both the, like, personal and what I like to call the professional, activations around the the finding good ideology. So I think this is a perfect transition into into legacy. I mean, you have you have been through it. You have this this kind of ethos that that you're living by. Where where do you wanna take finding good? What what do you want your your legacy to be on, I I think, you know, on everyone, but but importantly, on on cancer patients Yep. On on addicts? So my friend Brandon, he's become a a mentor, very good friend, but also a mentor to me. He works for the San Antonio Spurs, and he was talking to me one time about the time that he met coach Popovic. So Greg Pop, they call him, is just an incredible human being that I've, you know, followed just as a coach, but then also as a leader. And Brandon told me about the time that, he first met coach. In the whole interview, coach didn't talk about anything related to the team or winning strategy or like pounding the rock, which is the organization's mantra, but they just talked about humanity and and purpose and meaning. And in a speech later on, Brandon reintroduced that interaction that he had with coach, and he incorporated something into that speech called eulogy virtues. And eulogy virtues are a concept from author David Brooks. He's a columnist for the New York Times, and he says so often in life we focus on resume virtues. You know? Are you prompt on time? Are you a hard worker? Are you good at Microsoft, Adobe? Like, what are the what are the talents and skills that you have to contribute towards the good of this company or organization or industry? Eulogy virtues are what people will think or say about you at your funeral. So for the survivors that are standing around your casket or your urn or or just having memorial. I don't wanna be in a container. I wanna be in the world somewhere. So, yeah, my wife knows that if if I beat her to the grave, she knows what to do with me. But, yeah, I wanna be spread around somewhere. But when you're gone, when to my knowledge, nobody knows yet what the afterlife is gonna look like. I hope that it's some sort of a heavenly thing, but, to this day, I don't have proof of that. So I'm just gonna live the life that I believe that if there is a god, he thinks that I lived a good life. And you'll read more about my spiritual ideology in the book. So buy the book, finding good dotco. But the legacy thing for me are the eulogy virtues. When when I'm gone, and hopefully I've got at least a few people that are there to celebrate my life, I want them to say that I lived selfishly in a good way, that I was incontrovertibly adept at surrounding myself with good people, and that I did everything in my power to leave the world better than I found it. You can throw in different adjectives like passionate, caring, driven, loving, supportive, all those, you know, patient, kind, but I just want people to know that I lived life based on those three tenets. Mhmm. And I think that's what our ultimate struggle is. Like, you and I talked about narrative and storytelling. Like, we only know what makes sense to us. And despite growing up in, you know, the the church of Christ, like Uber, you know, Christian conservative environment, not necessarily with my family, but in that church, and now experiencing all different types of religions and spiritualities and ideologies, like, to me, the the more broad spectrum of knowledge that I acquire, the less certain I am that there's one specific niche to fall into. And so I feel like living in a way that is, objectively good, kind, caring, compassionate, driven, supportive is the legacy that I wanna leave behind, and I want my eulogy virtues to be filled with those. That's a good answer. I've had time to think about it. Well, I yeah. You've had time to think about it, and I and I think you're doing a great job. Thank you. Yeah. Means a lot coming from you. Like, again, there's a quote. I'll take it out of context, but it's from one of my favorite little cult movies, called High Fidelity. And John Cusack and Jack Black are 2 of the starring characters in it. John Cusack plays a record store owner and he's the whole movie is talking about a breakup and his top 5 breakups. But at one point, he's talking about his last breakup, the most important one, Laura, who he's trying to win back, and he describes her by saying that, some people, as far as your senses are concerned, feel like home. Now, certainly, he was talking about it from an intimate level of comfort, but when I met you, I felt like I'm home. Like, knowing Sam, meeting and seeing Caitlin, seeing how you interact with people and and care for others and and genuinely invest through questions and investigation. And and certainly with this podcast, I can tell that, to me, you're someone that I don't mind feeling at home with. So I appreciate Man. This time. Thank you, Mikey. I think, that's a that's a mic drop right there. I I don't think we can finish any any better than that. What a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for for sharing your your time and and your book and your philosophy. And, you know, everyone everyone's got a everyone listening has to, has to go. You said findinggood.co? Findinggood.co, c o. Somebody stole findinggood.com, and they want it for, like, $25,000, and I'm just not paying that. Put up 25 k. Yeah. They say it's, like, a call to action domain name. So I just took off the m, and it's perfect. But, yeah, I hope that you enjoy the book. I hope that you enjoyed reading it. To to not to be too cheesy, but I hope a lot of good comes from this, when people can Oh, sorry, Siri. Sorry, Siri. Yeah. You're messing this up. When when people can relate to things, when that narrative comes in and people automatically know that there's a coherent and probable message in that narrative, then they can connect it to their own life. So my hope is that there's enough in here that at some point you can connect to it, and if not, you can immediately know that, yes, the grass is always greener, but I guarantee you there's places that don't have any grass whatsoever. Yeah. And if you keep that in your mind and you keep your eyes fixed on the prize of personal prosperity while not forgetting that other people are less fortunate than you are, then, you know, you can have a a free reply. For success. Exactly. Alright, man. Let's do this again. Thank you so much. Yeah. Absolutely. Findinggood.co.