Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 74 - How to Build a Customer-First Culture
Have you ever felt adrift after stepping back from work, unsure of your purpose beyond your professional life? Join us as we explore this sensation and how the fulfillment found in meaningful work can bridge that gap. Reminiscing about the good old days of BlackBerry phones, we draw parallels between the evolution of communication tools and our ever-changing societal norms. This episode lays the foundation for future discussions with special guests, where we'll question the traditional paths of career success and uncover the essence of entrepreneurship.
Picture this: you're grounding yourself in nature, walking barefoot, and enjoying the primal pleasure of drumming by a fire. Balancing work and leisure can be that rejuvenating. We discuss the philosophy of "work hard, play hard," sharing personal stories of the joy found in projects that yield tangible results, like restoring cars or mastering the nuances of motorhome maintenance. Even after retiring or selling a business, these activities offer a sense of fulfillment and growth, reinforcing the idea that hard work makes leisure all the more rewarding.
In the latter part of the episode, we unravel top business strategies with a focus on exceptional customer service as a cornerstone for success. A cultural approach to proactive engagement and quality customer care can set a business apart, transforming customers into loyal fans. We dive into the world of Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems, highlighting how tools like Salesforce and Pivotal can enhance customer loyalty and reduce churn. By sharing anecdotes and experiences, we underscore the continuous journey of improvement in customer service, urging business owners to prioritize seamless communication and responsiveness to nurture lasting relationships.
I wanted to have a little bit of a different break, a little change, a little change, a little dress, yeah. But it was really worse than anything I've imagined because, like it was, you're purposeless, you're rudderless, yeah, man, and then you can feel yourself drift off into this worthlessness. Yes, you know, I could see it coming pretty quick. But I mean, but getting back on the ship, man, and like put in the hours monday through friday, heavy and hard, like how hard can I go? Yeah, and the weekend seems a lot more beautiful mark.
Speaker 2:Let's do a show mark In a second.
Speaker 1:Bang Editors, please keep this clip right here. This is important. We just witnessed Mark Zweig using his phone to type a long message, which is you were always. It was amazing what you could do on that BlackBerry. I wish I had those back.
Speaker 2:You were so good at BlackBerry. You know what, though? The other day I was moving some stuff around in my office. I have every BlackBerry I've ever owned, do you really? I have all of them. Bring them up. Bring them up to the next show. Let's look at them. I'm going to make a display in my house, though I don't know enough about them to know like which is the earliest model, but I want to display them chronologically all the way through. I've probably got at least 15 or more of them.
Speaker 1:I used to burn those things, dude. You did man. I mean you rub off the free like you didn't even see the letters on them.
Speaker 2:No, they're all rubbed off. Fred White's the one that got me into that. He got the first Blackberry and I'm like, what do I need that for? Of course, fred also got us into email. I'm like, what do we need email for? He was always. He always knew what the hell was going on. But hey, it's good to be here with you, buddy, that's right.
Speaker 2:We're back with another episode of Big Talk About Small Business. Yes, I can't. I'm embarrassed, I don't know what that is. You kind of look like Mitch McConnell when you do that. I'm sorry that is. You kind of look like Mitch McConnell when you do that. I'm sorry, no, but anyway, sorry. So we're back again with another episode of Big Talk about Small Business. We're here to talk about business. Yeah, we've got an exciting conversation today. We had a good meeting before this show, going over our list of guests that we're going to be bringing on. Absolutely, it was cool, which is very exciting, although I never get tired of talking to Eric, but it will be good to have some other people here we can harass yeah, for sure, and ask them hard questions. Yeah, make them feel uncomfortable. Yeah, get the truth out of them, that's it, baby.
Speaker 1:Right, we need more truth. You know, I was actually thinking about this just the other day. Like I don't know, do you have this experience where, as you get older which I know that you're not that old but as we get older, like do you not start going, like, why was I taught that way? Like, how did I not realize this until I'm, freaking, 40 years old, 45, 50? I didn't get taught a lot of bad stuff, I don't know. But I mean, like the like you talk about truth, right. Like I mean, like we, you don't get taught that much truth. Like I'm talking about the education system okay, it's what I'm kind'm talking about. The education system, okay, it's what I'm kind of talking about. And then just the environment of civilization Like yeah, like, like things, like be really just be kind and everything works out well, yeah, Everything I learned.
Speaker 2:no, I learned in kindergarten. Yeah, Whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't. Don't let the fear motivate you Right. Let the fear motivate you right, or? You know right. Or, if you get it, this is the right pathway in life, like go to school, do good work, study hard, get a degree and then you get a good job and then the company's going to take care of you and then, you retire and everything's happy and peaceful. You know, I mean like like conventional wisdom.
Speaker 2:That's, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I mean, like conventional wisdom, that's what I'm talking about, the cultural sort of accepted norms or expectations.
Speaker 1:Because if you do look at before, really when you think about business, it's kind of weird that entrepreneurism and this talk about doing business, right, that it's like this new thing and it's not new at all. It's actually just what it really is.
Speaker 2:It goes back to the dawn of man, dawn of man, man, I'm going to have a farm that puts out more carrots than the dude next to me, or whatever.
Speaker 1:I mean the fact that we even have to have this show to talk about entrepreneurism is kind of ridiculous in a way, because but what happened, if you really look at it like in the late 1800s, all the way through the 2000s? You have big corporations that kind of took over and everybody just became laborers or workers. Yeah, high management companies, true, yeah, you know, and so we kind of forgot over a century time period that we're all actually in our blood right, are supposed to be figuring out how to survive and build a business and make your own, and it's all your fault. You're 100% accountable. You're gonna go broke. You know. You're at threat and jeopardy all the time. You gotta. If you don't freaking make you earn your money and your dollar, then you're not going to eat and then, if you don't eat, everyone's going to die. You know, like I'm saying, it's like that threat has always existed until big corporations.
Speaker 2:No, that's true, but I mean, you know, most people don't realize there's something like over 35 million small businesses in the US.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's almost one out of every 10 people. Right, okay, but they're crazy. But to that statistical point. It should be nine out of ten. It used to be nine out of ten yeah, no, you're right.
Speaker 2:I mean, everybody was doing their own thing. I'm a blacksmith, I'm a farmer, I'm a hunter, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, you had you had to eat and kill me. Yeah, right, but our society has and like, so I think that you know because turned us all into ants.
Speaker 1:Well, they're serving the queen Well, but like, if you're listening to this show, right, I mean, I can't tell you the amount of people I've talked to that are like, have this desire and it's like they want to be out on their own but they don't know how to break into it. And it's really a simple answer Like, just do it Right, break into it. And it's really a simple answer like, just do it right. It always is yes, you know, but now we we've made it to where now we professionalize entrepreneurism. Yeah, you gotta have this and then you gotta have that, and then you gotta freaking.
Speaker 2:You know, you gotta do all you gotta do the lean canvas approach to test the market viability. That's the minimum viable product.
Speaker 1:Have you studied the market cap opportunities and what's the total count? You're like I don't don't freaking know, man, but I can tell you right there, like there's an opportunity.
Speaker 2:I agree with you. I mean, it's like I tell my students all the time not everything requires hypothesis testing and MVPs. We know we like good pizza. Yeah, okay, there's no question about it. Right, I don't need to test the market to see whether or not there's a need for another pizza. If they make freaking, really good-ass pizza, I'm going to sell a shitload of it. Exactly Okay, just be different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, study your competition. If you go to a pizza joint and you think their pizza sucks and I can make better pizza, then you should probably start a pizza joint.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. You know the demands there. Yeah, yeah, so it doesn't have to be so calculative. No, you're right. I mean, I hear exactly what you're saying. It makes a lot of sense. That was my history lesson for this. Well, that makes a lot of sense. I've been watching a show on I don't know what it's where, but it's all about the early pioneers of america, and I just watched one the other night on jp morgan. It was very interesting and seeing how these guys you know well, you know speaking, they made it and got into it. You know his dad was super conservative banker. Um, he's an american banker living in england. I didn't realize that and JP came back over to the US to make his mark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to basically separate himself from that, I guess, to break out on his own and do his thing, be a maverick, yeah, he got his dad all upset many times with various things that he did, you know but I mean speaking of what we just talked about. He was one of the initiators of big corporate America. Oh, he did you know? But I mean he.
Speaker 2:I mean speaking of what we were just talked about he was one of the initiators of big corporate America. Yeah, you know. I mean, if so, he was in everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the guy got into absolutely everything, yeah, I mean, and grateful to his entrepreneurial spirit, but what it did kind of cause was this snowball of professional organization, which I'm not saying anything negative about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just trying to Just professional management applied to all these industries. That all you know. It did Fragmented yeah, it worked. Yeah, well done yeah.
Speaker 1:No kidding, but the perspective of that is the way to go and, you know, is new. Yeah, still the day. And now we're having to shift our brains back over to a little bit more about, a little more primal right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I'm sure you do. You're one of those guys that would go out in the woods and beat on drums with other guys or something right? Have you ever done that? I want to.
Speaker 1:Around a fire. Yeah, yeah, I've done that. Done it by myself. Yeah, I've done that. Then, if I'm a soul, I'm looking for other people to do it, so I may have started a podcast show about that Just about beating drums and eating fish out of the river, like crawling around barefoot so you're grounded to the dirt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, we need that. There's a magnetic force like that. My wife's telling me that.
Speaker 1:You need it. Do you not walk around with your bare feet on the earth?
Speaker 2:No, I don't walk around like that. You need to. I don't want to get worms or step in, you need worms and you need some cuts.
Speaker 1:Okay, you need some tetanus.
Speaker 2:Wrong mark. We got to get on this show, eric. Okay, let's pull a topic out of the hat here and see what we've got today. Okay, we're gonna stay on on path. It sounds good. Okay, sam has organized us. She has. Oops, I'm trying to get one of these. Okay, let's see what this one says. It's like a fortune cookie.
Speaker 1:Work hard, play hard. Now I love it. Yeah, that's you, I love that. That is you, Dave. That's the mentality that I think you should have to have, Because you can't play hard unless you work hard, and you can't work hard unless you play hard.
Speaker 2:Man that's true. You can't really enjoy it if you haven't worked hard. That I know.
Speaker 1:So I've had the experience of when I wasn't working too hard and I was playing harder than I was working and it was not very satisfying. Yes, exactly, I totally understand that. You know, I mean they're myself Like, if you, you know, there's been a little bit of period, yeah, you know. And here recently, after we sold the company, where exactly what I was thinking of, where I kind of tried to, you know, I mean like I don't know, I wanted to have a little bit of a different break or change a little change dress, yeah, but it was really worse than anything I've imagined because, like it was, you're purposeless, you're rudderderless, yeah, man, and then you can feel yourself drift off into this worthlessness. Yes, you know, I could see it coming pretty quick. But I mean getting back on the ship, man, and put in the hours, monday through Friday, heavy and hard, like how hard can I go? And the weekend seems a lot more beautiful it does.
Speaker 2:It's like if you want to enjoy the sun, you've got to have some rain, kind of thing. Exactly right, you know? Yeah, otherwise you don't appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean I don't know about you, but anybody that I've seen that's retired, like most cases.
Speaker 2:I mean just really fast, just you know, I mean they just start, start, they lose it pretty quick man well, the couple times in my life where I had like a big sale and I didn't really have to work for a while or whatever, yeah, I, I like you said. I mean I didn't last very long I started immediately committing myself to one thing after another, not all profitable, mind you, but nevertheless things I was interested in or wanted to do. Yeah, it's just natural, I think, for some of us. But yeah, it's true, work hard, play hard makes a lot of sense to me.
Speaker 1:And I think the play hard is a big thing too. I mean like you got to, you know. I mean like if you rest too much, you know. I mean like it's, it's not really that good for you either. Like you got. You got to get, you got to make plans. You've got to just get out there and get it done. And I mean and be productive. I've kind of actually found myself recently. My play hard is a lot different than what it used to be. Yeah, Like, what I love doing is my play hard is still working, but I'm working on personal things. Yes, Like whatever, but I can see it getting done there's asset building, you know 100%.
Speaker 2:I'm absolutely with you.
Speaker 1:Everything that I'm doing at all times has some sort of fruit attached to it. I'm laboring, I'm toiling the land.
Speaker 2:It's funny Constantly. Yeah, I know you are, and that is very gratifying. I like some physical work myself. That leads to something you know I used to restore bikes, cars, houses.
Speaker 1:Same thing, it's the same.
Speaker 2:You're working on that asset, improving the asset, and you gain out of it. I tell you, the last several weeks I've been trying to figure out everything on this motorhome and just dealing with the winterization and unwinterization. I told my wife yesterday I am so expert now I think I could winterize it or unwinterize it in less than 10 minutes. But it was a challenge. Yeah, Just finding everything, getting the right advice on how to do it, the tools I needed, the little helpful things like a little connector that goes on my water heater so I don't have to pull the drain plug out every time. And you've got a motorhome. You know what I'm talking about. This one's got a little brass plug and then it's got a petcock I can just turn or a device I can put on my input water line and it's got an air hose connection to it so you can blow the water out all my water. Yeah, all these little things and just trying to learn all that very gratifying though yeah, yeah, you accomplished something.
Speaker 2:Now you're right, you're better than what you were, because when we went out in the motor home for the first time here last weekend, I'm like, do I know? Like how am I going to be able to commission the water system, get it all to work? You know, I finally got everything going. But then I went to take a shower and it was lukewarm, oh. And I'm like this is horrible. I was sitting there, my wife was laughing hysterically, you know, because it was cold and you're in this little shower and like bouncing on the walls and yelling. But I finally figured out what the cause of that was. There's a valve under the kitchen sink. You have to pull a panel and this one valve was turned that mixes hot and cold. I turned it the other way. Boiling hot Isn't that crazy. Next shower is perfect.
Speaker 2:But yes, I hear what you're talking about and it does make a lot of sense. It's kind of like neither you nor I were big sports watchers. Yeah, right, yeah, I will admit I've gotten into football, particularly college football, after I came to Fayetteville, even though our team usually sucks, and then I started watching pro football because I just love watching how good these players are. Yeah, they're amazing, it's just, it's amazing. Yeah, but I always, always said who wants to watch sports, I like to do sports. Exactly, we're doers, we're not watchers. That's right, okay we do.
Speaker 2:I don't passively like to watch or watch things happen yeah, if people just did more doing, they'd be happier and they'd get further ahead.
Speaker 1:It's the truth of it it is. And the only time I like sit and passively watch is when I'm hanging out with my wife Because she likes to chill and watch, and I'll watch the shows that she does. I mean, you know it's enjoyable, right, but I mean a lot of times I mean, and even her like she's multitasking. But I mean, like you know, but most of the times I'm doing something?
Speaker 2:Oh, I am too. It drives my wife crazy. Yeah, yeah, I'm sitting there, I'm writing an article at the same time as I'm watching the show, you know, yeah, but anyway, we, um, so we do believe in the work hard play hard adage, and it's a good mantra for entrepreneurs, absolutely. So let's talk about um, our next topic on the list. Let's talk about um, our next topic, yeah, on the list. Um, and that is obsessing over the quality of your customer service. You know, high customer service, high levels of that, is a marketing strategy, and so I think a lot of small business owners are absolutely missing the boat. This is the one thing you can do, that the big guys are never going to be as good as you are at.
Speaker 1:I'd actually say that it's more like I would put it as a top-line business strategy. Oh, it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. You know what I'm saying. Well marketing really touches everything, you're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like you can legitimately say that is my number one distinction. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like you can legitimately say that is my number one distinction. This is how I'm going to market. This is how I'm going to win the business. This is how I'm going to sustain the business. Yes, everything is tied into that, and using systems and processes, your technology, about all that stuff is just absolutely critically important. My problem has always been it's so challenging, mark, as an entrepreneur like this has been my experience to get everyone else to believe into that as much as I believe in it, because it's not a one-person job.
Speaker 2:No, it's not at all. Everybody has to, because they could all be in contact with a customer. 100%, it's a cultural thing.
Speaker 1:It is a cultural thing that it is a cultural thing, yes, and that, and there has to be. When we've talked about kpis, measurements. But how do you make sure that that's part of your goals? Like I mean, you can't. You know we have on ours like, uh, we call it, uh, you know churn, reducing churn, like what's the measurements against that? Like, I know how many touch points you have with clients. Yeah, you know how do you watch any of the clients falling out? Because it shouldn't be confused within, which is part of the calculation.
Speaker 1:But if you have your top funnel and you're bringing new business in, is the bottom of your funnel just as wide as your top, because the same amount of clients are falling out of the bottom? Yeah, that's a really bad scenario. Yeah, you want that churn to be as tight as possible and you're always going to have some some things that happen. But if you can watch that, you know, can you how? How high in the top of the funnel can you measure to predict the amount that's going to fall at the bottom funnel? And you, and watching that is so important but it hopefully leads the company into just being aware of how important it is to have a tight bottom funnel. But that customer service, that success is what it's all about, all the way down the bottom. And then when they leak out, how do you follow up the ones that have leaked out too? I mean, there's so much to it like it shouldn't be. It should not be negated it.
Speaker 2:There really is. I mean, I think in a practical sense, you know we're talking about what small business owners can do. Yeah, I mean, first thing is they do have to get tuned in to what's being put out there about them on social media and they got to respond to it. Yeah, okay, just going not responding to people who are criticizing or unhappy is not a viable way to go, in my mind. All your reviews, you know, your online reviews those are critical. Again, if there's a problem, you need to tune into it, but you know I think there's. There's other things too need to tune into it, but you know, I think there's. There's other things too, that you know. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2:Um, and you remember this when uh, what the heck is that?
Speaker 2:Do you freaking beep her off? I'm sorry? Um, I, if you remember, when I first came back to Zweig White and then you joined me shortly thereafter, we had that thing called the customer service inbox. You remember this, yeah, and what we found out was that the customer service inbox, where people would submit an inquiry online, was going to somebody who was no longer there and the email wasn't being forwarded. We get into that thing and we found hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars of leads and other things that were not being responded to for months and months. That's exactly right. Okay, it was terrible, terrible, okay.
Speaker 2:So then the first thing we do is we say, okay, now you know whoever it is that they're going to. They got to respond. But let's say it goes to the receptionist or whatever. That's not good enough. Yeah, okay, I got access to that. Sonia got access to that, maybe you did. I don't remember that inbox and we could all look at it and whoever responded to the thing, it would clear it out of the way first. Right, that's right. Of course, I became obsessed with that and you know what you hear over and over for clients or customers. Whenever you're fast at responding, they always are like wow, that I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I'm trying to spend money with you. Thank you for responding. Yeah, isn't it amazing? But it's just, it's so funny, like how we just we bypass that and then you try to robotize that. Yeah, that's a you know a verb of trying to automate processes. That's not good either. No, it's terrible. I mean like you, basically like number one, the system can break at any moment and you don't have any idea that it's happening and how is it handling it? And I mean, people don't want a freaking robot. There's nothing that makes me madder than hell than when I call a company and I got to go through a freaking robot to get to somebody and I'm like dude, seriously, as an insurance I just found it I'm paying $15,000 a year for auto insurance.
Speaker 2:I just found it. I'm paying $15,000 a year for auto insurance. Dude, I switched recently. I saved $4,000, plus Geico. No, I went to Progressive. Yeah, progressive, it was so much cheaper. The exact same coverages line by line all the way down. Yeah, it's crazy. And you know what I heard. By the way, it's interesting you brought that up. He's talking to one of my former students who's an insurance um independent insurance agent. He had nothing to do with me moving over to progressive, by the way, but he said insurance companies will just charge you more and more and more. The longer you're with them, the more you're overpaying because they know you don't really want to switch. It's, that's right. It's hard, okay, but he goes, I you could. In many cases you can dump the insurance company, move to somebody else, come back six months later and say 40 to 60 percent. You're crazy. The same insurance company shady, because they don't care about you as an existing customer. I mean, isn't that terrible?
Speaker 1:it is terrible, it's a business, but you gotta I mean like, but that's a, I mean I don't agree with that business.
Speaker 2:No, I don't either. I mean, I used to see that with health insurance providers when I was buying health insurance for companies. They would bump you up and it's such a nightmare. Your employees hate it. Yeah, you just have to change every couple years or you're going to get ripped off.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a good point, customer. The point is customer support. Here's what I tell the team all the time At Podcast Videos. Our job is reduce the friction of all this stuff Right, reduce the friction, it's so easy. Lower the freaking cost you really understand.
Speaker 1:As I lower the cost. I want to pass that on to our customers. Yes, I want to come back to you and say man, it was this. Now, guess what? It's that, because we have defined this process, we've made it into a machine, we're trying to do the same thing at Janus Motorcycles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the exact same thing. Lower baby, if we can cut our cost out and then pass that on to the consumer, we can expand our volume dramatically. Exactly, okay, everybody's happier.
Speaker 1:That's a customer. But I think that that belongs in our customer service. Yeah, you're providing a service to your customers. I mean, actually, as a matter of fact, when we look at the word customer service, we bypass that as like it's just some sort of lingo. But it's customer service. We're rendering a service to the customer first. That's why they pay us the damn money, you know, and if you can always think like in my mind when I think about starting a business, I'm like what valuable service am I rendering? Right, that's going to give money back to me. It's not about how much money can I make and how rich, no, it's not at all.
Speaker 2:It's the money's a byproduct. You've got to do the thing first that's right.
Speaker 1:You see the service. It's the opportunity go render that and then then everything else will work out well. Take care of the customers. It should be the number one thing you're after. By the way, you're bringing up online reviews. Yeah, my proudest thing in this company. You can ask anybody here. What has Eric rant and rave about since day one? Google reviews, yep, so I have been 5.0? Dude, check it out. 5.0, 41 reviews, wow, all legit and authentic, and we've only been established in like nine months. Yeah, you're in business. Yeah, but I mean like dude.
Speaker 2:That's something to be proud of.
Speaker 1:They come in. I'm like who's responding?
Speaker 2:Respond to good reviews, not just the bad ones.
Speaker 1:Every time I, I, yeah, I always be thankful and appreciative and show gratitude. This is, to me, the mark of our success. Yeah, and as a business, I'm like that. This gives me confidence. Yeah, that people really good spend the time they come in here and I mean it's just, it's fantastic and I mean nothing makes me happier than whenever I see a reviewer come in yeah, and every bad experience that anybody ever has, and you know it's inevitable at some point.
Speaker 2:Your opportunity as the business owner is to turn that around and blow their freaking mind of it. Okay, love it, just blow their mind with what you're willing to do. Absolutely it's a game man, it is a competition. I mean, I think you know like we've had matt lewis in here before. You know, I remember I bought this f-250 from matt once and I knew a little bit of the history. It was just slightly used. Yeah, okay, matt, actually it was his, his, his demo for a short time, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So I bought it and, like the second, maybe the first or the second day I had it, I had some kind of a horrible blowout where my you know, water was going everywhere and steam and all this stuff. And so I call over there to Matt and within five minutes his two brothers come over there, bring me a brand new truck to drive. Okay, take mine, get it fixed. Okay, you know, trailer or whatever, get it fixed. Call me up, you know it's ready to go. Can we bring this to you? I'm like, like who gets that service from a ford dealership? Nobody, beautiful, but I'll never forget that and guess what?
Speaker 1:you have totally accessible, constantly bought new vehicles oh my god. Constantly refer to their business because you know they're going to take care of any of my kids, any of my friends, family members, everybody's got a lewis ford yeah, it is, and it's just the response and it was so different.
Speaker 2:You know, he really brought a lot of that to the place. I mean, because I met Matt. Originally, I bought a new Dodge Magnum, remember those? Yeah, it looked like a station wagon, it was kind of low and they were based on. The platform was the Mercedes E-Class and I thought I'm going to get a poor man's E-Class and buy this thing. Anyway, I hated it.
Speaker 2:But my experience with the Dodge dealership which they owned was not good. I paid 100% for the car and I was traveling and they wanted me to come get it. I'm like I can't leave that sit on your lot. What's the big deal, man? They had some kind of a fit and I said this is bizarre. Anyway, I told him about this later and I bought it was over there buying a ford or whatever, and I said, man, you need to go help him out over there in the dodge. So I told him about it. I mean it ever since then. That's how we became friends and I never was treated like that and he admitted that they had some problems over there. He did end up going over there and straightening the mess out, okay, and really turned him around. But that customer service I mean, it's just bad experiences can turn into raving customers.
Speaker 1:You want raving fans. Yeah, you don't want customers. Okay, raving fans. Excuse me, raving fans. Yeah, you don't want customers. Okay, raving fans.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, fans you know service man, sir, but it's one thing a small company can do. I think that big companies always struggle with because they're so big they don't know everything that's going on. Sure, they don't really have the systems to monitor accurately.
Speaker 1:Okay, or maybe they're out there but they're not looking at them no, yeah, I think I think on that point, like if you're a small business, like if you know when you're trying to start something up you got quickbooks or counting. You know, you got marketing, you got all these different things and the one thing that gets neglected I see a lot that's not front of mind for, you know, new entrepreneurs is what about your customer relationship management software? Oh gosh, I know, you know, and they're like what are you talking about? Yeah, you know, like a lot of people don't even understand what that means. And collecting the data of your customers so that you know them better, you know how many, how those people's minds. I mean it's and it's. It requires work, it requires investment.
Speaker 2:You know that I read not long ago only 20 of crm implementations are actually successful. Yeah, ultimately because they're not supported by management. Management's not using it. Therefore employees don't use it. Right. Right, and it's critical. If you go back to the early days of Zweig White and we had a wide area network, we had six or seven offices Fred White had. We had the T1 lines or whatever they were, that gave us good data connection. Everybody was on one CRM. It was live. I'll never forget this client. I pick up the phone and this guy tells me who he is and the company he's with. I look quickly on the CRM and I go how did you like that seminar of ours you went to in Atlanta six months ago? What was that all about? Did you find it was valuable? Guy's like you know I did that. I'm like absolutely, that's my business to know. I didn't say yeah, I'm sitting here looking at a computer screen. Yeah, yeah, because people just didn't have stuff like that 30 years ago.
Speaker 1:I remember you talking about that. Fred White really implemented that very well, even when I joined Zy Group. Yeah, I remember your CRM. You were using Pivotal at the time. That's right, it's Pivotal Solutions. Yeah, and we moved it to Salesforce, migrated it over during that time period, but I mean it was, but the data that you had in there was just rich.
Speaker 2:It's fantastic, but it's such a cultural thing that CRM is so critical, getting the information early on. Like you got to go back when you and I were kids or whatever, and you'd go to Radio Shack to buy something, whatever it was. You remember this? You had Radio Shack in Nashville, right, yeah, so you go there and what's your name and your phone number? Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, they'd always get your name and phone number and address so they could bombard you with their catalog. Yeah, I thought that's an absolutely brilliant strategy. Nobody, I thought that's absolutely brilliant strategy. Nobody else was doing that. Yeah, nobody. Yeah, they had all that information on all their customers. They knew who was buying stuff, how much they were buying so much power, what they were buying.
Speaker 1:It's so much power, man. It is so comforting when you have that. But, you know, I think that's a big asset for the company. It's valuable Honestly. Yeah, let's talk about that real quick. Yeah, if you start out with a great CRM and you have a good culture, that's about customer service and you build this CRM with all this data, when you go to sell your company, dude, I mean, the acquirer is going to look at you and they're going to do all their due diligence. But then they go in and they say wait a minute, you have 50,000 people in your database. You've known them since the day one. Yes, they've been repeating customers and so that demonstrates your churn so valuable. It is why they're going to buy you. It is Most companies buy other companies for their clientele because they're going to tack it on to whatever bigger ship they got that's exactly what we sold the company in 04, the private equity firm.
Speaker 2:They had magazine group the one that we ended up but buying back we were talking about this morning and they had a trade show group that served the same customer base as we did. They wanted that database. Yeah, okay, we made those things viable, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I mean it's really in, in all honesty. I mean like we sold our company because of our clientele, of course, you know. I mean that's why companies buy other companies.
Speaker 1:Yep, you know and rolling is a big part of it, the thing we trick our minds into thinking you have some sort of special product or you have some, but no, I mean your product is as good as the amount of customers that are using it, you know. I mean you can have a really great software. Now you might have a software that somebody wants to buy to tack on and blend in because it has a tool or functionality that you need. Yeah, but they're going to look at the usability of that, like how many customers do you have? How many people are using it? What's the amount of time they're spending on it, is it?
Speaker 2:really useful for them, right? Is it really critical to their business? Yeah, because that validates the value of that asset that I'm about to purchase. Yeah, now it's so. The crm is critical. The social media following that, responding reviews yeah, following them, responding good. And CRM getting the culture out that this customer service is critical. So can we talk about that? Yeah, what do you think is how?
Speaker 1:do you do that? Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say is like the response of number one as the founder, as the entrepreneur, as the small business owner, as the founder, as the entrepreneur, as the small business owner, if you don't have a very strong vision and perspective of the value of customer service, you're not ever going to have it in the company. It's no one else's responsibility. It's just as important as you have to be able to read the numbers and understand what's going on in the business. You have to know about marketing. I'm sorry, sorry to tell you, but if you go into entrepreneurship, you have to be able to own these pillars. Yeah, and but if I think it's very important, like, do you drive that into the culture from day one, the first person that you hire, the second person? You continuously watch that and just burn that into people's minds. And how is the customer service operating in this?
Speaker 2:company and if people do stupid stuff or bad stuff they've got to be addressed 100%. I mean you can't let it go on.
Speaker 1:I mean, I remember many years ago I had this new person that worked for me. Okay, came in and they were going to be with one of our clients. Like, basically, one of our clients demanded some additional services, so we brought in a person that had great credentials, came in, started working on behalf of one of our accounts, our clients. This person left a pretty good job to come over, right, I mean thought it was all great. Sure, the client calls me back in the first week. That's not good, not good. They're like, don't like this Matter of fact, they did something that was embarrassing to us.
Speaker 1:Oh, I brought that person in, can't have you, sorry. Yeah, I know this is terrible. Right, you just have to. You know, I mean it's really bad, but this can't happen. It's the way it is. I have to take care of this because there's no way to really that circumstance, there's no way to repair or coach or grow out of it. Yeah, and I'll admit I was probably maybe now, today, I would have probably done it a little bit differently, giving a little bit more effort, right, but at the time I mean like I can't, I can't, yeah, there's no slack.
Speaker 2:There's no extra.
Speaker 1:We can't afford to waste it was like dude, be like, because, number one, I had to demonstrate back to my client that was part of the customer services that I'd say you dealt with it you dealt with. This won't happen again. You know why?
Speaker 2:because it's impossible that it will. That makes total sense to me and you know, I remember situations like we'd have somebody on the phone who was new and they couldn't pronounce the name of the company right. And I know, like the office manager or whatever, I would go look, you've got to get so-and-so to say my name properly, yeah, okay. And they would think I'm being like extra picky or something. No, like no, I'm not being picky. Yeah, I mean, if you can't say the name right, you can't answer our freaking phone.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, hey okay, there's so much into this, like it's how you talk to people, what do you say to people. You know how you follow up with, how you greet them when they walk in. I mean one thing we do here. What I love about the team is we have embedded in us this understanding, intuitive understanding. If you work here and people walk in this building as a guest or as a client or the first time in, like greet the hell. I mean, like you always see people in the lobby, like the whole team comes up and you know it's like a little mini party. I walked in yesterday from a client meeting. I walked in and, dude, I could have sworn. We were like you know, freaking, hanging out at a bar or something. Because I walk in, there's 10 people in there, five of them are clients, five of them are my team, laughing, cutting up, serving coffee. I was like I mean, my mentality can't be like, why isn't everybody working? No, no, no. Everybody is massively contributing right now. This is the work.
Speaker 2:This is the work. Yes, no, you're right. You're absolutely right about that.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's just so much that can be better. You know, it's amazing to me back on big companies and how they blow it. So the gas company that we have here, whose name I'll mention, is Source Gas. Oh no, it used to be Source Gas, now it's Black Hills Energy. I don't know if you have that in Benton County, but that's who we have in Washington County.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, I get these electronic bill notices and I go to pay the gas bills on our properties, okay, and it's clicked through here to pay your bill. When I get those, I pay them the moment they come in because I don't want to forget. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like I'm not going to go. Okay, I'll deal with that later. It's like pay that freaking bill because I don't want to hear like you have five days to pay your gas bill or it will be disconnected. You know when you're out of town or whatever.
Speaker 2:So I click through and the website blows up, okay. So I thought, oh, you know, I look them up, I, I google it. It's the website down at black hills energy. It says I found something that says it's being worked on for maintenance. So the next day it's down, the next day it's down, the next day it. So the next day it's down, the next day it's down, the next day it's down, the next day it's down.
Speaker 2:I'm like something's really wrong here, right? So I get on Facebook, I find their page on Facebook. They have a Black Hills Energy page. I send a message, a Facebook message hey, what's the deal with your website? You know. And I also put a post on their website Facebook page and said what's the deal with your website? And I also put a post on their website Facebook page and said what's the deal with your website? Boom, within three minutes I heard back, first from a manager that said it was an individual person. I saw that Tell me what problem you're having. Then I also heard through the message thing from their it people. Nice, okay.
Speaker 2:So I did have a pleasant interaction. First, the um I, the um it people acted like there was nothing wrong. Eventually I got them to admit, yeah, that people with uncertain browsers, I, ie, iphones are having problems. Everything else seems to work, but that's a problem. So then I passed that on to the other woman I was talking with who responded to the manager, responded to my post actually on Facebook and told her that was what was going on and she sent me a link through Facebook message to their website that I could open. I could open it in Facebook, but if I click through to the web and said open it as a web page, it blew up. My point in all this is that was last week. Okay, you know what Still doesn't work? All right, yeah Now can you believe that a company that big can't fix the fact that their website's not loading on iPhones, which is the number one platform.
Speaker 2:You think everybody's going to go to their freaking computer to pay that bill. No, most people are going to pay it off their phone, right, it's all stored in there my checking account, everything else takes a couple buttons. It's great.
Speaker 1:But they still haven't fixed it. They've got to raise that up to the top priority of that company right now. I know I mean it's kind of the point right. Yeah, one of the biggest reasons you stay so attuned to the customer service is because it lets you know what the highest priorities are within the company that need to be fixed with your product and service.
Speaker 2:Hey, it just worked.
Speaker 1:So, in all fairness, fairness did not work last night, but today it works. Now it's working. So congratulations, black, well done. So I got a quick story on customer service. That happened to me last week. So we have our house that has this bathtub with one of these faucets that come up from the floor and pours into the bath. You know it's like a standalone bathtub. What do you? Whatever you call, yeah, freestanding, freestanding, thank you, yeah. Yeah, I've done a lot of those, so I've gone through a lot of soaking tub.
Speaker 1:Yeah yes, yeah but I've one of the, the, the flange or gasket busted in in the pipe and it's like a 15 year old system, and so we had the plumbing like a plumbing company come out looking like man look, this is your only problem. But if you want to repair the faucet, you're talking $3,500. I'm like, oh, my god, that's you got that includes the fixtures that includes the labor to replace the whole thing.
Speaker 1:And then and I mean it's like, oh my gosh, and so, yeah, that's great. Anyway, I went through about a week back and forth. I, I went everywhere to try this flan, find this gasket. Can't find it anywhere. Go to plumbing supply companies around here locally, can't find it. So I'm finally like I'm just going to call the manufacturer right of this, kingston Brass.
Speaker 2:Oh, Kingston Brass. I used it many times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I call, right, Uh-huh. And my expectation was like, man, there's just no way, you know, I mean this, I get on there. And I talked to this lady and she's you know, you got, you got not. You know southern accent, just you know. And I'm just like, okay, you know this, this lady's not. I mean I had, I just had assumptions, like she's not gonna help me, right. I was like so I got this and she's like well, well, what kind is it? What model number is it? I'm like, man, I have, I have no idea. She said send me a picture. She said send me a picture. I was like, okay, you know, went and took some pictures, sent it to her.
Speaker 1:She stayed on the phone with me the whole time. She goes hold on a second. She goes and is on hold. I'm on hold for probably about two or three minutes. She comes back product number mark. She worked with me for 15 minutes to find a freaking gasket that probably cost two dollars, right, oh, yeah, I mean it's you know. And then she finally found she goes listen, we don't carry that anymore. And like this time I'm like she's so embedded, I'm like I haven't. Why is this person even helping me at this point. And then she's like but here's the replacement model, and you know it's 500. She goes look it's 500 in our site, but on amazon it's like but here's the replacement model, and you know it's 500. She goes look it's $500 on our site, but on Amazon it's like 300 something dollars. She, literally she goes I'm going to go buy that one. And so you know, I was like oh my God Right.
Speaker 2:And I was like your plumber can't charge you $3,200 to install the $300 faucet.
Speaker 1:If they are, they're really ripping you off, right, but it's like you just not only did you help me, right, you really helped me, but then you saved me money. Yeah, I know, and she's like have a good day and I'm like okay, but in my mind, here's the thing Kingston Brass Rules, don't they? They rule. I love Kingston Brass. You got the Kingston brass spec down on this home. I'm telling you. It's so true. They got good customer service.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm going to use Kingston brass because I can promise you I maybe can't hold Delta and get that right. I may have told this story before If I did forgive me on this show. So one time I buy a lot of blinds online because I used to redo a lot of houses. It was like blindscom. Yeah, they're so good their site. Pick out what you want, you can order it. It's really designed, it's easy to order, like you can take your last blind that you entered in and open it up and it's got the same thing. And maybe you just change the width. You don't have to go reenter everything, whatever. Great system, okay. So anyway, I buy a lot of blinds from them.
Speaker 2:So I get this email message on a Friday night that said if there's anything from the president of the company just a typical email I'm sure it went to their whole customer list. If there's anything we could do better, I'd love to hear from you. So I was never happy with the valance that covers the header on these blinds. So I sent him a note and said you know, I appreciate the email, but this is a problem I have with your product. The guy calls me like 20 minutes later the founder no, okay, the founder of the company, and, by the way, you know what I found out later. You know what kind of business they're doing 200 million.
Speaker 2:Wow, the founder calls me, okay, jay. I can't remember his last name. Jay was his first name, okay, and so I talked to him and he's like you know what he goes, you're ordering wrong. He goes actually, we do have what you want and this is the way you need to order it. You got the wrong product. You're specking it out wrong.
Speaker 2:I was looking for Jay's last name. I got it in here because I ended up. He was so helpful to me, so I started asking him questions about his business. I talked to the guy for probably 20 minutes on a Friday night at like 635. Fantastic, okay, this is what he's doing with his time. Ask Jay to come on our show and let's talk about that. They did sell the company, by the way. They sold to Home Depot, or a lot of these. I can't remember which one. I don't know if Jay's still there. We had Jay as a speaker at one of our conferences, though, and he started out by buying a tiny little blind shop that had like one or two employees in it. That's how he started that business. There's a guy who understands customer service Dude, he's answering it himself, loves his customers.
Speaker 1:man, Do you think I would?
Speaker 2:go to anybody else after that.
Speaker 1:Hell no. And do you think that you're going to recommend anybody to anything else? I mean, like you have to love I think the synopsis of this whole conversation as the entrepreneur, as the founder, as the business owner, you have to love your customers Absolutely. I mean, you legitimately have to have a passion towards the people that you're serving. Jay and Steinfeld, jay Steinfeld, jay Steinfeld. Well done, yeah. Thank you for showing us, demonstrating how to love your customers and take care of them. I mean, that's what business is and we forget that so much. There's so much other crap that's being talked about. If you just love on your customers, you're going to have a successful business.
Speaker 2:It's really true. Yeah, love on your customers and survive long enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and don't make other stupid, all the other things that we rise up to the top. Those are good principles and, yeah, you have to watch out for them. But if you start there, if you start there and you finish there, you're going to have a very successful business.
Speaker 2:There's one other story I want to tell about a big company, and it's one that we love here. We're not Walmart bashers, we're Walmart supporters.
Speaker 1:I love Walmart. I love Walmart so much. Mark, Can I say something real quick on that? Yeah, say it.
Speaker 2:I know you make me guilty every time I buy anything from anybody else.
Speaker 1:So, by the way, back on the story about Kingston Brass, when she recommended Amazon, I sent it to my wife. I don't buy from that place and you bought it on Walmartcom. I don't know where she bought it, but I was like this is the link that she gave me. I don't go there, walmartcom, you go buy it wherever, but I do not buy from Amazon. I'm just saying Because I love Walmart so much, I know, I know, but I'm publicly stating you know that I mean I absolutely want to champion and help like as much as I can. I mean want to champion and help as much as I can Because it's so significant to the planet, it's so pivotal to our area. There's the University of Arkansas.
Speaker 2:They're responsible. People are totally misunderstanding Walmart. The Walmart bashers have no idea. All the good things that they do, their sustainability initiatives, the, the thoughts that goes into every development, yes, the innovative stuff that they're trying to do their office, the way they treat their employees, the paid education for anybody there, I mean it's all, though.
Speaker 1:No, they don't know and how much, how much investment, investment Walmart has had to make to make all those things happen. And the biggest thing, their core values, their founder values that they have from Sam Walton. They still carry those. I met Sam. After 50 years they're still walking in those founder values and they speak about them. Their executive team speaks about them. Their training, their leadership that they have to have. I mean, it's just, it's absolutely like I think it's the best company that's ever existed and is existing today. That's my perspective.
Speaker 2:Okay, now I want to tell you a story. This is 20 years ago, okay, so the cast of characters has changed. All right, so 20 years ago I'm at the Walmart management meeting on Saturday morning. You know where they would have all the managers. I don't know if they still do that, but all the managers would call in from all over the globe. Very impressive, there were probably a thousand people. Where were you at? At the headquarters Walmart HQ? Oh, you were there.
Speaker 2:Yeah 20 years ago. What were you doing 20 years ago? I was with the dean of the College of Business. He said, hey, you want to go to the Walmart meeting with me tomorrow morning? I said, hell, yeah, you were. Yeah, yeah, I was in Fayetteville. I just started working for the US. You were in Fayetteville, yeah, I just started working at the University of Arkansas, anyway.
Speaker 2:So that was Doyle Williams. So he asked me if I wanted to go with him. So I went over there. It was impressive seeing all these people call in and all the people together. But this was really telling to me and I've told this story before.
Speaker 2:So John Mincer I think he was president of Walmart stores USA or whatever it was, or Walmart stores at the time is up there talking. Okay, he says, if Mike Wallace, from 60 minutes, is interviewing me and he says, from 60 Minutes, is interviewing me, and he says, asked me if Walmart has the best customer service of any retailer, can I tell him we do. And of course there's like, like you know, no answer, maybe a few little snickers in the background Okay, because they knew they did not have it right. Yeah, so he goes. Okay, well, if we don't have it, can I say we don't have it. Can I say we don't have it now, but like by november we'll have it again.
Speaker 2:A few more, you know, side dead silence, a few little snickers yeah, he goes, okay. Well, if I can't say that he goes, why can't I say that he goes? Don't our checkers ask everybody who comes through did you find everything you wanted today? And this guy raises his hand Mr Menser, sir, we've done a study and we found that our checkers ask that only 37% of the time. And he's like well, why don't they ask it all the time? And then somebody else says Mr Menser, what are they supposed to do if the customer says I couldn't find what I wanted? Oh, does a red light go off? That's an alarm sound. Can't find them.
Speaker 2:Pampers extra small, super dries okay 24 count box, you know, do they get on the phone? Is there like a red phone? They can bring me the pampers. 24 count, extra small super absorbance. No, there's nothing. And it was almost dead silence because it pointed out the failure. Yeah, so, yeah, they asked that. But if they say no, what do you do? Right? Do you stop everything and run over and get it for him? There's no system beyond that. At the time they probably fixed it because that's what walmart does, sure, and you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but just witnessing that was very powerful, for yeah, yeah, that's because you have to think about, especially, the company was large, large as Walmart. But I mean, like even a small business like this, like we can't, as the entrepreneur, watch every single customer interaction that goes on and you can't simply trust that it's going well. No, because if you're a checker and I asked you, did you find everything you're looking for today? And you're like, no, I couldn't find this, if that happens to me one time, I'm probably not going to ask the next person Exactly the awkwardness, Because I can't, yeah, you can't do anything about it. Yeah, but finding out that I think it's a great illustration. Mark of customer service is not just a statement, it's not just a thing that you do. It is a continuous work in progress. Like you were 20 years ago, walmart's been around for 30 years. By that time it's still addressing a customer service problem. It's like a never-ending, it's an eternal thing that you've got to go after and follow up on and see where the breakdowns are happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to just be a zealot, you've got to be a business owner, you've got to be obsessed with it. And you know, it's really interesting to me too. I I can remember in the earlier days of my, my company, you know, we were rocking along, we're very successful, and there'd be somebody was unhappy with something they got or they didn't get you know in time, or whatever, and I always said not only do you want to take care of whatever that problem was, but give them something else. And my own people would not take advantage of that, like they're too stingy. You know, I'm like I don't care about that. The guy buys an $80 book and he doesn't like it. Give him a $200 book, that's right. Okay, what difference does it make to us? Now he's going to go. Those guys are great, that's right. Otherwise you're going to say they're shit. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the compounding effect. I mean and we've said this before and before you respond, like you know, my point is on the word of mouth is the best. The word of mouth is the best form of marketing ever that you can ever have. But what it takes to get there, the work that it takes to get that word of mouth, you have to be able to answer those things. You have to respond with a 200-page book and sacrifice and you can't look at the raw numbers and bean count. If you have an upset customer, you must invest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's part of your marketing cost. Just get over it. Get over it and empower your people to solve it, so they're not like, well, I don't know what I can do. I'll wait for Mark to come back, but right now he's in Houston. No, yeah, no Fix it yeah.
Speaker 2:Whatever the hell it takes. That's another small business problem. Small, small business problem. Small business owners think small Yep, and they practice single person management. Everything goes to them. You can't operate like that. No, you can't. So if you want to not always be a small business or not be trapped by your business, you better get your people solving problems for you and not bringing them all to you. So good stuff, good chat man. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. Well, I think it's time we wrap this up. Yes, sir, agreed, and so we've got a long roster of guests. They're going to be on the show in 2025, which is going to be fun.
Speaker 1:It's exciting man, I love hearing the stories, I love getting more perspective on it. I love hearing I mean, just how people started. I mean just how people started. I mean so many different things to talk about on here. Yeah, there really are.
Speaker 2:There's no one magic formula in your business, is there? No?
Speaker 1:But I can say I'm excited at this conversation because it reminds me of just like I think if there was one customer service, I mean honestly, if I could name a day right, it's customer service, I agree. Honestly, if I could name it, it's customer service, I agree. And it makes me excited. I'm going to go out to the team and start harping on it a little bit. All right, you got a good team out there. I have a great you know what. Honestly, I feel really comfortable about my team because I know they like to take care of our customers. Like I know that if there is a problem, that they're going to do anything that they possibly can and that's just culture ridden. It's in our blood now.
Speaker 2:That is just such a core foundation to build on. It is. I feel the same way about Janus Motorcycles. In spite of whatever problems we might have of one sort or another, the customer service is outstanding. Everybody there cares, everybody there is responsive, everybody there does whatever they can do. Yep, and man, that's valuable. That's why we've got a loyal following. That's it, and that care starts with the founder. It does 100%, absolutely does so, anyway, great conversation.
Speaker 3:Until next week. This has been another episode of Big Talk about Small Business. If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk about Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.